What Tom mentioned about random bad things happening reminds me of 7th Continent, you pick a fruit, it is poised, you go into a cave, a bear eats you, etc, etc... It is an exploration game that punishes you for exploring... Hence I was only happy playing the 7th Continent by being able to cheat a little (and I loved it).. I guess the same will happen here.
The 7th Continent is really half Exploration, half Survival game. The very first sentence of their first kickstarter is 'The 7th Continent is a cooperative exploration and survival board game with mechanics inspired by the adventure books where "you are the hero”.' You know, those books where you make a choice, turn the page and oops, a werewolf eats you. :D T7C is never THAT bad. You don't just insta-die. Bad things happen, but as you get more experienced at the game you learn how to deal with them. Just like any other survival game. Once you get better at the survival aspect, the exploration becomes less treacherous.
@@exist2758 Just received an update: Shipping (the copies to the backers) starts early november and should take about 6 weeks in total. Christmas should definitely be doable.
Thanks for your detailed explanation! I absolutely love the story setting of Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon. Eastar is also very happy to be able to make this game and hopes that more friends can learn about its gameplay through this video.
Oh man, I couldn't agree more with you Fred. The story, not just in it's content and narrative was a fear but also were the grammatical risks and complication with rules and language. So happy to hear they absolutely nailed this. Cannot wait!!
Manny83M AR has had around 5-6 proof reads so there is no surprise that the quality is great. There are though some small mistakes, but they are all listed in the unofficial and the official FAQ, if you are interested.
Not a bad review overall. I certainly enjoyed quotes like "There's two more full size campaigns and some minor ones, that's crazy! I mean I wanna see them all" and "I really enjoyed the game" but I thought quotes like "If you're more about game mechanisms during the story you might be thinking alright let's move along, but if you play for the story you'll love it" (something like that) he could have instead said "If you like game mechanisms, WOW. If you like good story? WOW. You're gonna love this twice!" I didn't much care for lines like "This isn't gonna be everyone's cup of tea." This isn't Gold Peak it's a board game, there isn't one answer like there is with tea. And anyone who wouldn't find this to be their cup of board game, do we really care about their opinion at that point? They can go play chutes and ladders and admire their crayon drawings up on the fridge while us big kids can play Tainted Grail :) All in all, his seal of choice to give the game was an excellent decision, and considering I spent more than a full two-week paycheck to get this game (since I missed the kickstarter and bought on ebay) I'm happy with the review. One last recommendation to make future reviews easier to process, instead of two different seals or a pass, maybe you can implement the "Tainted Grail Scale." Just tell us on a scale from 1 to 10 with Tainted Grail being the highest, where the game you're reviewing falls. It would be a big help in knowing exactly how much we would enjoy the game. Looking forward to your Etherfields review! (Disclaimer: I do NOT work for Awaken Realms.)
I know this was filmed much earlier, but I would love to see a video of DT guys compare and contrast this heavy story games that have been popping up this last couple of years.
A comparison would definitely be interesting, but it'd almost need to wait a year or two... At the very least, I'd like to hear Etherfields and Sleeping Gods in the mix... Though, they do say not to watch reviews for things you've already bought....
@@megamer29 well they did play a single chapter of Oathsworn. Also Tom has played Gloomhaven. I would just like to see where they think there is a place for them.
Watched this hoping that it wouldn’t get a bad review. I went for the full kickstarter pledge and it’s not cheap. Seeing the seal at the end made me feel like I backed a winner 😇 cannot wait for this ... might save for the Christmas holidays and lose myself in it!
Confirmation biais...youll find excuses to like to game even if u truly don’t like it that much, especially with huge kickstarter games..the more you pay, the more biais we become.
I am glad that I backed the digital version. I couldn't justify the expense of another big solo game. 7th Continent already had that role and I just don't have time for another. The Steam version will be much easier for me to actually play and I'll still get to experience the best parts of the game. I do love the physicality of a board game, but you can't have everything!
Oh now I am hooked. I really really love the punishing death mechanic that the campaign ends if you die. I really HATE that in most mass-market games the campaign always continues because it leads to the situation where you do not care about clever gaming at all. So I really like that Awaken Realms seem to go for the more hardcore route.
It seems Awaken Realms can't produce bad games, they just keep on creating amazing products ! Also, bonus points for having a dice-less combat system !
@@giannisc.5254 they are releasing a game called "Bees" and some flicking area control game I believe. I forget what it's called but I'm sure it's easy to search for
Very excited for my copy to come. Glad the combat feels good even if it does pause the game but it was unique when I saw it. They say it's 30-45 hours per campaign and the kickstarter added 2 more so 60-90 more hours to experience will be great if the story is as good as Tom says
These time estimates has changed from the Kickstarter. If you watch the latest Q&A, Marcin says you should expect 50-70 hours just with the core for your first campaign.
Best story telling/ exploration game i ever played. Hands down for the best so far from AR. If you like this war of mine, nemesis, 7 continent mix thats your way to go.
I just wasn’t sure how much it’d hit my table plus the price and the amount of space it would take up I just decided not to back. I probably made a mistake. :(
Glad to see it was deemed excellent. I accidentally purchased two full kickstarter sets. So if anyone would like to purchase my extra copy (kickstarter exclusives and stretch goals), let me know.
@@NycLogics I purchased the King's pledge. For $250 I've already recieved the the tainted grail core box and the monsters of Avalon. With the Red Death, Echoes of the past expansions and all of the stretch goals to be shipped when development is finished. Where are you located?
I like that we've now finally arrived at a point in story driven games that the story is so impressive and prevalent that nothing else matters or may stand in the way. Hard battles? We'll just make them a little easier. Dying? Nope, we'll jump back to a save point. The story shall rule it all! Nice. My kind of game experience. Well said, Tom.
@@sp1cychick3n No, it's often hard to tell how good a KS game really is until you get it, more so for narrative driven games where you're basically backing based on a really good pitch and/or reputation. And Tom's review went up really quick, so it was one of the first indicators of whether the gamble paid off. Sounds like you don't back a lot of Kickstarters.
I don't know I just don't see the appeal. There's so much micro-managing as if I were playing an RTS on PC. This doesn't translate well into board games at all, because setting up and tear down is a chore in comparison to a video game. Hmmmm I would still like to try and this is defintie from the perspective of outside looking in.
NIce! Looking forward to this. Awaken Realms is hitting it out of the park. This War of Mine is one of the most important games ever made, and this is looking like another stellar game.
Also the recently completed Nemesis game is fantastic. Very challenging, especially if you go for the semi-competetive rules, but I am having a great time with it.
Thanks for your review. I backed this even though I was a little scared that this game might be as unplayably difficult as "This war of mine" - so I'm definitely will play on easy, and I'll play solo, and I really appreciate your being honest that you won't start from scratch if your characters are all dead after 20 hours... It's not that we have any time to waste 🤷♂️
Each campaign is 30-40 hours, and there are 3 total in the Kickstarter version (the other 2 delivered in wave 2). The Red Death add on campaign is 15-25 hours.
I am sure this is good, but I have plenty of solo campaign stuff with Gloomhaven and 7th Continent. I don't need any more right now. And then CMON's Trudvang Legends will be in my hands. Because of that I will pass. Glad it is enjoyable for those who backed it!
Same here, already backed Middara and Isofarian Guard, 2 other huge narrative campaign games, so that will keep me busy. Wish they made a version of this into a choose your own adventure type of novel that I could just read instead as the story sounds cool.
I really disliked Gloomhaven, since the story was incredibly weak. So I will eventually sell my copy of gloomhaven, but Tainted Grail looks like a game that will stick with me a long time.
Is this another game that you can't replay once you've gone through the all campaign ? I'm really interested because it seems re-playable by other players, if not by yourself
It's definitely replayable by others: there are no permanent changes to the game. Not sure how replayable it would be for the same player, but with different characters and choices you could probably play through it at least twice.
Let’s be honest, it’s a beautiful looking game, the components are nice, it’s dripping with theme and the story aspect is great. But are you REALLY gonna sit down with friends and play this or is it just going to be something you stare at on the shelves for years to come? I have so many dungeon crawl/adventure games and not one of them ever makes it to the table. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve set up Sword and Sorcery only to put it back in the box unplayed. Naturally, not all game groups are the same and if you gather frequently for something like D&D then you’ll probably play this one. But for many, when they sit to play a board game, they are looking for something...Mmmm...not so “invested”? If you had Teotihuacan and this sitting on a shelf I’m guessing your more likely to reach for Teo. Anyway, just rambling. I get the draw of the game but I stopped buying things like this because they just don’t get played. Maybe once. “Let’s just play Scythe tonight”.
This is why I'm glad I enjoy playing some board games solo. I can play as much as I want without having to wait for a group meetup every week. It allowed me to get through Gloomhaven. But if I had to wait for a group everytime, I probably wouldn't have play it. It'll be the same with this game. I can set it up and leave it out and play on my own schedule and not have to rely on waiting on people to show up.
I'm guessing your experience is the norm. For me though I play these kinds of games more then others you describe. While I might play games like Orleans or Ticket to Ride 3 times a year. I play campaign games usually at least 10 times after purchasing them with a group within the first 3-4 months. I also usually play through a couple of times solo within the first year. After I have went through the game 4-5 times I'm usually finished with it and pass it on. That means with a game like this that has 30-45 hours of play in a campaign I will play the game between 120-225 hours. It will take me a long time before I have played the non campaign games which I play a few times each year that much.
Got my email from UPS the game will arrive on monday, :D this will be sweet. Had to have a refresher of all the content in the game and Vasel did a good job of that. Dont even remember what extra material i will get think i payed 110-120$ or something like that.
william mathon There are two types of people in the world. People who have anxiety over the way Tom handles components, and people who think people who have anxiety over this are hilarious.
The component drop is a symbolic gesture to remind us all that games are just games. They are important and fun, but also in the end, something that can be disposable. Well, that would be my PhD dissertation on it anyway 😛
Sounds like everyone is house ruling this game to reduce randomness and tedium in order to facilitate the excellent story. Kind of a bummer AR didn't design the game this way.
@@eliashartmark1522 yep , this for the price i paid araund 80/90 euros and you basically get 3 full games 30 hours each is maybe the cheapest game i have ever bought haha
This game is not even delivered yet and it is fully reviewed... BATMAN came out as one of the biggest games of the year months ago and no review yet! I dont understand it...
Well if you want review thers one on shut up and sit down .. basically its slog of a game ,conan 2.0 with maybe the worst rulebook ever.. while this is an amazing game.. maybe thats why Tom was exited to review it..
Batman is a great game marred by a bad rulebook and lack of player aids. The game feels like Batman, and it's fun to play as any of the heroes. The scenarios (I've played) are balanced and reward skillful play. The game is far from being a slog.
@@VaultBoy13 im just repeating what i heard , everyone is different, for me Mage Knight is the best game ever and i have no problems with the rules or the rulebook of that game.on the other hand there are lots of people that cant get past the rulebook and the learning curve..everyone is different, someone's garbage is other mans treasure:)
@@JanFrensin and @Vaultboy - I saw other reviews and it seems these assessments are correct (i.e. good game, bad rules, need player aids) - My comment was more about how weird is for the DT to ignore it...
@@dddmmm21 ok so now you got me pissed , why cant you people search the TH-cam on your own , here there are not one not two but 3 reviews on dice tower network from 5 months ago.. here man enjoy 1 . th-cam.com/video/s7PRJiMYg40/w-d-xo.html
I think the pledge manager will only allow people who already have an order add to those existing orders, or for backers with unspent funds from the kickstarter.
When is this happening? I didn't see information on this. Wasn't able to back it at the time even though I wanted to, I might be able to if it reopens : )
@@Skarpo89 I'm not sure they have given an exact date, I believe first quarter of next year is what they announced. So you still have a good amount of time to get the funds together should you want to back it. Though I'm not actually sure if this is available to people who didn't pledge anything.... I did the pledge $1 to get into the pledge manager strategy.
We just finished playing in the middle of chapter 4. The story is great, the mechanics are very intricate, but the actual game play is such a slog. Fighting takes to long, bookkeeping is fiddly and in the end half to time you are just grinding in order to survive.
sjormasklin you will not be able to pledge as a new backer. You will have to piggy back on the pledge of someone that lives close to you if you want the game. The English version of the game will not go to retail.
@@sjormasklin Sorry for the false information, it's only for existing backers. Try to find a retailer that is backing and piggyback on that or someone close to you.
Rammvis Awaken realms is focusing on finishing their wave 2 campaigns at the moment, and the app will probably be very limited in the beginning with its functions. In 3-6 months it should be completed.
The lack of focus on several points in this review was a little frustrating. Unless it's details of a mini that need to be held in hand, work on putting the cards on the table Tom and having a single level of focus for the camera.
My guess is that TG is more fleshed out story wise. Core box+stretch goals is 600+ pages of adventures. Choices/actions seem to have more influence on how the story turns out.
@@simonadams Same here. The Gloomhaven story is more like flavour text. There aren't really that many choices. I think you can easily enjoy Gloomhaven without reading any of the story. I doubt that's the case with this game.
Even if my own and Tom’s taste for games seldom perfectly aligns, this review was more focuses on the quality of the game and its systems and story and so I, like many “all in” backers felt a huge relief for the seal of excellence. That being said. The thing about chance. A single die roll (that you can’t modify) to determine win/loose, benefit/suffer l... that’s just lazy design. And I real shame when the rest of the game seems so wonderful. Let’s hope there is less of that in the expansions. Great review as always Tom. Thanks.
The die rolls can often be heavily modified, since they often add the value of your health etc. So if you are in good shape, then the chance of failing is very low.
Chris Musix Menhir dials hard to read Some die rolls that seem very fueled by chance Some dead ends I would say that is minor when talking about a 50-70 hour campaign
@@eliashartmark1522 hard to read, not like any other game doesn't have the odd component tweak. Dead ends are fine it's a story based game, Time Stories did the exact same thing. Die rolls rely on chance, you don't say? A seal of excellence probably means Tom gives it a 9. I'd say with small mostly subjective issues like that, that's reasonable.
I'm pretty sure it will be in retail, but like most AR games the entire game will be more expensive. All the SGs are KSL, meaning you will have to buy them. Looking at LoH, it was much cheaper for the KS as they got a lot of free stuff which they sold for about $60. If you're fine with the base game though it might be slightly cheaper due to free shipping.
Unplayable gor more then 2... Game mechanics just sucks out all the joy and soul from u :) also feels sad how many in these comments will be disappointed :/
Why are all these reviews not even emphasizing (did tom vasel even mention it?? ) that this product is a puzzle ("cooperative/solo"). It´s very important! theyre mixing these product too much with games
I should say after spending heaps of money on this game it’s quiet disappointing to see the game turned out way worst than I expected - although we don’t have the stretch goals and expansion yet but I should say the early hours of tainted grail are definitely some of the most memorable experiences I ever had however through its midway you will start to realise you have seen everything that the game offers to show you and the next 20 -25 hours is pretty much repetition of the dull mmorpg style fetch quest across the world - should you have a good run, you are either overpowered or far worst in need of its boring grind to survive which makes you quit the game - the game is basically 85% dependent on its rule book - it’s well written and it’s interesting to read through and branching paths are great but there is no gameplay as far as I’m concerned- I’m hoping for Etherfields to turns out much better - can’t say I’m gona go and play the stretch goals and expansion - I suppose they will end up on eBay as soon as I get them in November. The game has an exceptional production quality but ultimately eveyrhting is failed due to its tedious gameplay cycle My final score is 6/10
So this is a game you play through once then sell it because you know all the spoilers. Pretty weak recommendation, Tom. Or in game reviewer speak: "Really REALLY weak recommendation."
Obviously Tom never played RPG cause you die you make a new character but you have nothing of the old stuff. Pathfinder and dnd are all about that dice rolling. Us RPG players get it.
Awaken Realms makes good games. But even though they claim to have top tier quality minis on the same level as Cmon just remember that's not true. Just expect ok miniatures, nothing special and you will enjoy their games.
Agreed, CMON and FFG minis are way better, i was frankly a bit disappointed by the minis in Lords of Hellas with the many bent spears and monument body parts that didn’t piece together as seamlessly as I imagined from the KS renders.
Honest Word the miniatures in TG is far better than their earlier games. They have increased size and changed to harder plastics for bases and bendy bits. Their sundrop versions is easily the best sundrop you can get for that cheap prize right now. When I compare these minis to my CMON blood rage minis I would easily say ARs are of higher quality. The CMON games often have bendy bases and weapons, which is not so weird since they prop their games full of minis.
Ah another solo campaign for Tom "I'm Not a Solo Gamer" Vasel ;)
Hahah he's not a solo gamer, but he's a solo campaigner
Tom Solo.
Is not a sólo campaign
The "no component drop" took me by surprise (thank god)
What Tom mentioned about random bad things happening reminds me of 7th Continent, you pick a fruit, it is poised, you go into a cave, a bear eats you, etc, etc... It is an exploration game that punishes you for exploring... Hence I was only happy playing the 7th Continent by being able to cheat a little (and I loved it).. I guess the same will happen here.
The 7th Continent is really half Exploration, half Survival game. The very first sentence of their first kickstarter is 'The 7th Continent is a cooperative exploration and survival board game with mechanics inspired by the adventure books where "you are the hero”.' You know, those books where you make a choice, turn the page and oops, a werewolf eats you. :D
T7C is never THAT bad. You don't just insta-die. Bad things happen, but as you get more experienced at the game you learn how to deal with them. Just like any other survival game. Once you get better at the survival aspect, the exploration becomes less treacherous.
My copy arrived yesterday, looking forward to starting playing it this evening.
Can't wait to receive my copy hopefully next month. Looking forward to playing.
Soo...two months. Meaning three. Certainly four.
@@PrinceGastronome I think it's shipped so distribution should be before xmas
@@exist2758 Just received an update: Shipping (the copies to the backers) starts early november and should take about 6 weeks in total. Christmas should definitely be doable.
@@exist2758 Soooo.....January.
@@PrinceGastronome Maybe. I haven't started GH or 7thC so I can wait 😄
Thanks for your detailed explanation! I absolutely love the story setting of Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon. Eastar is also very happy to be able to make this game and hopes that more friends can learn about its gameplay through this video.
Joining many backers with a huge sigh of relief. I think the best part of the review is clear rules that are well translated.
Oh man, I couldn't agree more with you Fred. The story, not just in it's content and narrative was a fear but also were the grammatical risks and complication with rules and language.
So happy to hear they absolutely nailed this.
Cannot wait!!
Manny83M AR has had around 5-6 proof reads so there is no surprise that the quality is great. There are though some small mistakes, but they are all listed in the unofficial and the official FAQ, if you are interested.
Finally Tainted Grail! 28 minutes? Back with my review of Tom's review in half an hour.
Not a bad review overall. I certainly enjoyed quotes like "There's two more full size campaigns and some minor ones, that's crazy! I mean I wanna see them all" and "I really enjoyed the game" but I thought quotes like "If you're more about game mechanisms during the story you might be thinking alright let's move along, but if you play for the story you'll love it" (something like that) he could have instead said "If you like game mechanisms, WOW. If you like good story? WOW. You're gonna love this twice!" I didn't much care for lines like "This isn't gonna be everyone's cup of tea." This isn't Gold Peak it's a board game, there isn't one answer like there is with tea. And anyone who wouldn't find this to be their cup of board game, do we really care about their opinion at that point? They can go play chutes and ladders and admire their crayon drawings up on the fridge while us big kids can play Tainted Grail :)
All in all, his seal of choice to give the game was an excellent decision, and considering I spent more than a full two-week paycheck to get this game (since I missed the kickstarter and bought on ebay) I'm happy with the review. One last recommendation to make future reviews easier to process, instead of two different seals or a pass, maybe you can implement the "Tainted Grail Scale." Just tell us on a scale from 1 to 10 with Tainted Grail being the highest, where the game you're reviewing falls. It would be a big help in knowing exactly how much we would enjoy the game. Looking forward to your Etherfields review!
(Disclaimer: I do NOT work for Awaken Realms.)
I know this was filmed much earlier, but I would love to see a video of DT guys compare and contrast this heavy story games that have been popping up this last couple of years.
A comparison would definitely be interesting, but it'd almost need to wait a year or two... At the very least, I'd like to hear Etherfields and Sleeping Gods in the mix... Though, they do say not to watch reviews for things you've already bought....
@@megamer29 well they did play a single chapter of Oathsworn. Also Tom has played Gloomhaven. I would just like to see where they think there is a place for them.
Watched this hoping that it wouldn’t get a bad review. I went for the full kickstarter pledge and it’s not cheap. Seeing the seal at the end made me feel like I backed a winner 😇 cannot wait for this ... might save for the Christmas holidays and lose myself in it!
Enjoy 😊
I'm right there with you. Glad I went for the KS on this bad boy.
Same here, looking forward to a Christmas play-through. Hope you all enjoy it thoroughly!
Confirmation biais...youll find excuses to like to game even if u truly don’t like it that much, especially with huge kickstarter games..the more you pay, the more biais we become.
@@TheMedianGam3r we’ll I wrote this over a year ago and I’m now on the 2nd expansion. So I’m clearly deluding myself 😉
😍😍😍 Can’t wait anymore! Get me my copy! Great review! Looking forward to experience the story!
I am glad that I backed the digital version. I couldn't justify the expense of another big solo game. 7th Continent already had that role and I just don't have time for another. The Steam version will be much easier for me to actually play and I'll still get to experience the best parts of the game. I do love the physicality of a board game, but you can't have everything!
Agreed. The price is ludicrous for the gameplay all in.
It's a 1980s Adventure Gamebook with additional components and advanced graphics!
I loved those! Are they still around?
Oh now I am hooked. I really really love the punishing death mechanic that the campaign ends if you die. I really HATE that in most mass-market games the campaign always continues because it leads to the situation where you do not care about clever gaming at all.
So I really like that Awaken Realms seem to go for the more hardcore route.
Die Nische Typical for you😉
Definitely super hyped for this. That boat cant move fast enough ! Loved the review, it seems this is going to be everything I hoped it would be.
So glad that I backed up the Kickstarter, seems I will have to add the expansions in my wave 2 pledge
This is how all reviews should be run
It seems Awaken Realms can't produce bad games, they just keep on creating amazing products ! Also, bonus points for having a dice-less combat system !
I'm really excited for the smaller games they are releasing at Essen this year.
@@westlin3 I am not sure what you mean by smaller games. Care to enlighten me ? I might have to add things to my to-buy list ! :)
@@giannisc.5254 they are releasing a game called "Bees" and some flicking area control game I believe. I forget what it's called but I'm sure it's easy to search for
@@imasexydinosaur2656 Thank you for the info ! I'll look them up !
@@imasexydinosaur2656 Flick of Fate :)
Very excited for my copy to come. Glad the combat feels good even if it does pause the game but it was unique when I saw it. They say it's 30-45 hours per campaign and the kickstarter added 2 more so 60-90 more hours to experience will be great if the story is as good as Tom says
These time estimates has changed from the Kickstarter. If you watch the latest Q&A, Marcin says you should expect 50-70 hours just with the core for your first campaign.
I want my game now! Hurry up boat!
4 days from germany now
Best story telling/ exploration game i ever played. Hands down for the best so far from AR. If you like this war of mine, nemesis, 7 continent mix thats your way to go.
Agree
Really anxious to hear more feedback on this one. I REALLY wanted to back this on Kickstarter but eventually passed.
What was it that made you pass this Kickstarter?
I just wasn’t sure how much it’d hit my table plus the price and the amount of space it would take up I just decided not to back. I probably made a mistake. :(
@@VictoryConditionGaming Nah, why did you make a mistake? I mean, I'm sure you'll be able to try it out in the future.
I don’t think any of my friends backed it and now if I want to pick it up I’ll have to pay secondary prices. 😳
This sounds rad. I didn’t buy into it since it’s hard enough to get my friends together for Gloomhaven. We will be playing that for awhile.
I can’t wait for my copy to arrive dammit!
Glad you liked it! Looking forward to this one!!
Another great review. 👍 Thanks for avoiding spoilers!
Glad to see it was deemed excellent. I accidentally purchased two full kickstarter sets. So if anyone would like to purchase my extra copy (kickstarter exclusives and stretch goals), let me know.
BlueKryptonite45 I would like to buy it. Which kickstarter version u have?
@@NycLogics I purchased the King's pledge. For $250 I've already recieved the the tainted grail core box and the monsters of Avalon. With the Red Death, Echoes of the past expansions and all of the stretch goals to be shipped when development is finished.
Where are you located?
BlueKryptonite45 I’m in queens New York. You can email me at nyclogics@gmail.com
I knew I would regret selecting one wave shipping
I hear you...
Oh no you didn't?
Yeah, for the relative savings in shipping, choosing one wave really wasn't worth it.
I learned my lesson on Nemesis so I got 2 wave on this one
I like that we've now finally arrived at a point in story driven games that the story is so impressive and prevalent that nothing else matters or may stand in the way. Hard battles? We'll just make them a little easier. Dying? Nope, we'll jump back to a save point. The story shall rule it all! Nice. My kind of game experience. Well said, Tom.
I am glad that his negatives were mostly just personal preferences, rather than actual flaws in the game. Can't wait to receive my copy.
My wife just asked if I bought this game. I said no because technically I backed it because Kickstarter is not a store. Did I lie?
Yes. On the other hand, you bought 3 games and maybe a couple of expansions.
Wha?! You didn’t drop things all over or slack those components with a hammer, must really love the game!
Yea, he didn't want to hit the Menhirs
I told my wife, "You can tell he loves this game. Watch the gavel." 😆
Haha that's the most cautious gavel smackdown I've ever seen!
Something tells me it's not his copy.
6 weeks or less and counting... Can't wait :-)
Lol I love how you didn't hit the minis at the end lol! Wow first time I've seen that. I always cringe at the end.
That sigh of relief you get when the KS you went all in on gets a Seal of Excellence!
I didn't go all in, but even the core box is expensive, so yeah... another sigh here :).
So you need someone else to justify your purchase? That is what I'm seeing in these comments...
@@sp1cychick3n No, it's often hard to tell how good a KS game really is until you get it, more so for narrative driven games where you're basically backing based on a really good pitch and/or reputation. And Tom's review went up really quick, so it was one of the first indicators of whether the gamble paid off. Sounds like you don't back a lot of Kickstarters.
argel1200 I actually do but I’m just extremely wary of these kickstarters that are like $300 or more and ones that don’t go to retail.
anything else but an excellent would have been a surprise to me :)
Great review Tom
I don't know I just don't see the appeal. There's so much micro-managing as if I were playing an RTS on PC. This doesn't translate well into board games at all, because setting up and tear down is a chore in comparison to a video game. Hmmmm I would still like to try and this is defintie from the perspective of outside looking in.
I think there is a PC version of this game.
NIce! Looking forward to this. Awaken Realms is hitting it out of the park. This War of Mine is one of the most important games ever made, and this is looking like another stellar game.
Also the recently completed Nemesis game is fantastic. Very challenging, especially if you go for the semi-competetive rules, but I am having a great time with it.
Genomerio I had to skip that one, but I’ve heard good things!
Thanks for your review. I backed this even though I was a little scared that this game might be as unplayably difficult as "This war of mine" - so I'm definitely will play on easy, and I'll play solo, and I really appreciate your being honest that you won't start from scratch if your characters are all dead after 20 hours... It's not that we have any time to waste 🤷♂️
This war of mine isnt unplayably difficult. You can win at it, its just takes a little luck and a lot of planning.
The game might take longer than you think. AR has said that you should expect 50-70 hours. So there is a lot of game there.
Wade Sutton nope it was not. Just the red death expansion will be around 30 hours. And that is the smallest of the campaigns
I think they said 30-45h per campaign
Each campaign is 30-40 hours, and there are 3 total in the Kickstarter version (the other 2 delivered in wave 2). The Red Death add on campaign is 15-25 hours.
Richard it has changed from the when the Kickstarter was up. If you watch the latest livestream Marcin talks about it.
Richard check out the latest Q&A, at the timestamp 8:13.
Awesome review Tom!
I am sure this is good, but I have plenty of solo campaign stuff with Gloomhaven and 7th Continent. I don't need any more right now. And then CMON's Trudvang Legends will be in my hands. Because of that I will pass. Glad it is enjoyable for those who backed it!
Same here, already backed Middara and Isofarian Guard, 2 other huge narrative campaign games, so that will keep me busy. Wish they made a version of this into a choose your own adventure type of novel that I could just read instead as the story sounds cool.
I really disliked Gloomhaven, since the story was incredibly weak. So I will eventually sell my copy of gloomhaven, but Tainted Grail looks like a game that will stick with me a long time.
Components too nice to drop
Is this another game that you can't replay once you've gone through the all campaign ? I'm really interested because it seems re-playable by other players, if not by yourself
It's definitely replayable by others: there are no permanent changes to the game. Not sure how replayable it would be for the same player, but with different characters and choices you could probably play through it at least twice.
We have to decided what game buy, Gloomhaven or Tainted Grail ... Any advice, please?
GloomGrail
really nice review, thanks!
Let’s be honest, it’s a beautiful looking game, the components are nice, it’s dripping with theme and the story aspect is great.
But are you REALLY gonna sit down with friends and play this or is it just going to be something you stare at on the shelves for years to come?
I have so many dungeon crawl/adventure games and not one of them ever makes it to the table. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve set up Sword and Sorcery only to put it back in the box unplayed.
Naturally, not all game groups are the same and if you gather frequently for something like D&D then you’ll probably play this one.
But for many, when they sit to play a board game, they are looking for something...Mmmm...not so “invested”?
If you had Teotihuacan and this sitting on a shelf I’m guessing your more likely to reach for Teo.
Anyway, just rambling. I get the draw of the game but I stopped buying things like this because they just don’t get played. Maybe once. “Let’s just play Scythe tonight”.
This is why I'm glad I enjoy playing some board games solo. I can play as much as I want without having to wait for a group meetup every week. It allowed me to get through Gloomhaven. But if I had to wait for a group everytime, I probably wouldn't have play it. It'll be the same with this game. I can set it up and leave it out and play on my own schedule and not have to rely on waiting on people to show up.
wildinferno1984 aye, that’s the only way I’d get through it also.
I bought this just for solo ,who are you kidding ,this is solos heaven haha
Yeah, these kinds of story heavy games are made for the solo gamer
I'm guessing your experience is the norm. For me though I play these kinds of games more then others you describe. While I might play games like Orleans or Ticket to Ride 3 times a year. I play campaign games usually at least 10 times after purchasing them with a group within the first 3-4 months. I also usually play through a couple of times solo within the first year. After I have went through the game 4-5 times I'm usually finished with it and pass it on. That means with a game like this that has 30-45 hours of play in a campaign I will play the game between 120-225 hours. It will take me a long time before I have played the non campaign games which I play a few times each year that much.
Got my email from UPS the game will arrive on monday, :D this will be sweet. Had to have a refresher of all the content in the game and Vasel did a good job of that. Dont even remember what extra material i will get think i payed 110-120$ or something like that.
Taking notes 📝
Am I the only one that has anxiety at the end of every episode when you know the hammer is coming down?
Nope. Since his sloppy unboxing I’ve been having panic attacks just thinking about that and the component drop. Thank god he was gentle this time
william mathon There are two types of people in the world. People who have anxiety over the way Tom handles components, and people who think people who have anxiety over this are hilarious.
The component drop is a symbolic gesture to remind us all that games are just games. They are important and fun, but also in the end, something that can be disposable.
Well, that would be my PhD dissertation on it anyway 😛
fantastic review!
Sounds like everyone is house ruling this game to reduce randomness and tedium in order to facilitate the excellent story. Kind of a bummer AR didn't design the game this way.
Thanks!
This game is beautiful...
The resurrection mechanic makes me feel better about this- got burned by LotR:JiME's horrible death "end your campaign" mechanic.
spoiler:
It will probably alter your ending if you use it, but we don't yet know in what way.
Did you guys review arena the contest yet?
Why are most good solo games expensive af?
This is very cheap really for the amount you gameplay you get. The base game gives you two additional campaigns for free.
@@eliashartmark1522 yep , this for the price i paid araund 80/90 euros and you basically get 3 full games 30 hours each is maybe the cheapest game i have ever bought haha
@@JanFrensin The core campaign is actually between 50-70 hours. So yes, very cheap for the amount.
@@eliashartmark1522 Very cheap? Really?
Because they over-price everything with these miniatures and components that add nothing to the main game.
Thanks Tom!
Ooooooh I've been waiting for this one!
This game is not even delivered yet and it is fully reviewed... BATMAN came out as one of the biggest games of the year months ago and no review yet! I dont understand it...
Well if you want review thers one on shut up and sit down .. basically its slog of a game ,conan 2.0 with maybe the worst rulebook ever.. while this is an amazing game.. maybe thats why Tom was exited to review it..
Batman is a great game marred by a bad rulebook and lack of player aids. The game feels like Batman, and it's fun to play as any of the heroes. The scenarios (I've played) are balanced and reward skillful play. The game is far from being a slog.
@@VaultBoy13 im just repeating what i heard , everyone is different, for me Mage Knight is the best game ever and i have no problems with the rules or the rulebook of that game.on the other hand there are lots of people that cant get past the rulebook and the learning curve..everyone is different, someone's garbage is other mans treasure:)
@@JanFrensin and @Vaultboy - I saw other reviews and it seems these assessments are correct (i.e. good game, bad rules, need player aids) - My comment was more about how weird is for the DT to ignore it...
@@dddmmm21 ok so now you got me pissed , why cant you people search the TH-cam on your own , here there are not one not two but 3 reviews on dice tower network from 5 months ago.. here man enjoy 1 . th-cam.com/video/s7PRJiMYg40/w-d-xo.html
This sounds great, just wish there was a way to get this since I missed KS. :(
EBay is your friend.
They reopened the pledge manager today. Go on BGG and find someone to “piggyback" with.
The Game Steward resells Kickstarters that they pledge on. BGG has a market that can be less greedy than ebay.
Jumping onboard as soon as pledge manager reopens!
I think the pledge manager will only allow people who already have an order add to those existing orders, or for backers with unspent funds from the kickstarter.
Stephen Davis this is true. So you will have to piggy back on the pledge of someone else if you want the game.
Did they mention when the pledge manager reopens? Because I never put in my shipping info so now I can’t get the game unless/until it reopens. :/
@@b.c.eckhoff3495 They said january, but who knows.
B. C. Eckhoff it will reopen when all the English wave 1 copies have been delivered
hmmm still on the fence as to whether I will full pledge when pledge manager reopens....
When is this happening? I didn't see information on this. Wasn't able to back it at the time even though I wanted to, I might be able to if it reopens : )
@@Skarpo89 I'm not sure they have given an exact date, I believe first quarter of next year is what they announced. So you still have a good amount of time to get the funds together should you want to back it. Though I'm not actually sure if this is available to people who didn't pledge anything.... I did the pledge $1 to get into the pledge manager strategy.
@@anab0lic yes! I had done that too, so hopefully I'm able to back all that I want when it comes back. Thanks!
Oh so that was a board game now they made it a videogame.
Do you still prefer 7th Continent Tom?
I paid for the King's Pledge of this during the original Kickstarter campaign. I'm still waiting on my copy.
We just finished playing in the middle of chapter 4. The story is great, the mechanics are very intricate, but the actual game play is such a slog. Fighting takes to long, bookkeeping is fiddly and in the end half to time you are just grinding in order to survive.
missed this one ... hope they reprint
You will still be able to do a late pledge when the pledge manager reopens in january.
@@tommykokko2336 ooh rly.... was not following much, nice
sjormasklin you will not be able to pledge as a new backer. You will have to piggy back on the pledge of someone that lives close to you if you want the game. The English version of the game will not go to retail.
@@sjormasklin Sorry for the false information, it's only for existing backers. Try to find a retailer that is backing and piggyback on that or someone close to you.
@@tommykokko2336 What's the date?
Dungeons Of Infinity
just paint the dial numbers I guess
Where is the APP there should be an app with its release!! >:(
If you've been following along, they've been saying the app will be after (3-6 months)
Rammvis Awaken realms is focusing on finishing their wave 2 campaigns at the moment, and the app will probably be very limited in the beginning with its functions. In 3-6 months it should be completed.
Thanks guys I was getting worried
Seems a shame I would like to play this game, sounds really good, but seems like it has no replicability once finished.
The lack of focus on several points in this review was a little frustrating. Unless it's details of a mini that need to be held in hand, work on putting the cards on the table Tom and having a single level of focus for the camera.
So glad I didn't backed it.
why'?
What is better story? Gloomhaven or this?
My guess is that TG is more fleshed out story wise. Core box+stretch goals is 600+ pages of adventures. Choices/actions seem to have more influence on how the story turns out.
I'm about 20 hours into Gloomhaven and my immediate reaction to this question is: "there's story in Gloomhaven?". Thin at best.
I assume this...Gloomhaven's story is mostly just there, I feel. Not bad, but definitely a game driven by its combat and mechanics.
@@simonadams Same here. The Gloomhaven story is more like flavour text. There aren't really that many choices. I think you can easily enjoy Gloomhaven without reading any of the story. I doubt that's the case with this game.
Michael Hastriter as others have said. Gloomhaven does not really have a story. It is if so incredibly weak.
Even if my own and Tom’s taste for games seldom perfectly aligns, this review was more focuses on the quality of the game and its systems and story and so I, like many “all in” backers felt a huge relief for the seal of excellence.
That being said. The thing about chance. A single die roll (that you can’t modify) to determine win/loose, benefit/suffer l... that’s just lazy design. And I real shame when the rest of the game seems so wonderful.
Let’s hope there is less of that in the expansions.
Great review as always Tom. Thanks.
The die rolls can often be heavily modified, since they often add the value of your health etc. So if you are in good shape, then the chance of failing is very low.
Tom Vasel played a game solo.
No idea how you can have these serious complaints about the game and still give it a Seal of Excellence. Seal of Approval... maybe...
His complaints didn't sound that serious actually. They are negatives but if they are minor compared to the rest of the game, the seal is justified.
Chris Musix
Menhir dials hard to read
Some die rolls that seem very fueled by chance
Some dead ends
I would say that is minor when talking about a 50-70 hour campaign
@@eliashartmark1522 hard to read, not like any other game doesn't have the odd component tweak. Dead ends are fine it's a story based game, Time Stories did the exact same thing. Die rolls rely on chance, you don't say? A seal of excellence probably means Tom gives it a 9. I'd say with small mostly subjective issues like that, that's reasonable.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Agreed
Is there a chance that this will be sold in retail ?
The english version will probably not be sold in retail, but the different language editions will.
@@eliashartmark1522 What makes you say that?
I'm pretty sure it will be in retail, but like most AR games the entire game will be more expensive. All the SGs are KSL, meaning you will have to buy them. Looking at LoH, it was much cheaper for the KS as they got a lot of free stuff which they sold for about $60. If you're fine with the base game though it might be slightly cheaper due to free shipping.
pfenn1tw It has been mentioned multiple times by the CEO of AR, Marcin.
Christopher Thomas The language editions will, but the English version will not go to retail.
Will you someday remake your intro?
Starting to think I should have gone for the Split shipping :( I'm going to be really jealous when everyone is playing this.
same :(
Another Legacy game..really a do not understand paying this amount of money for games that you are only going to play once.
It's not a Legacy game in the slightest. You may not *want* to replay after finishing it, but it is entirely replayable
Oh, no... No, thanks! You know what? I'll wait for the movie.
Or the digital game
one of the best "REALLY???" ever heard :)))))
Unplayable gor more then 2... Game mechanics just sucks out all the joy and soul from u :) also feels sad how many in these comments will be disappointed :/
Why are all these reviews not even emphasizing (did tom vasel even mention it?? ) that this product is a puzzle ("cooperative/solo"). It´s very important! theyre mixing these product too much with games
I should say after spending heaps of money on this game it’s quiet disappointing to see the game turned out way worst than I expected - although we don’t have the stretch goals and expansion yet but I should say the early hours of tainted grail are definitely some of the most memorable experiences I ever had however through its midway you will start to realise you have seen everything that the game offers to show you and the next 20 -25 hours is pretty much repetition of the dull mmorpg style fetch quest across the world - should you have a good run, you are either overpowered or far worst in need of its boring grind to survive which makes you quit the game - the game is basically 85% dependent on its rule book - it’s well written and it’s interesting to read through and branching paths are great but there is no gameplay as far as I’m concerned- I’m hoping for Etherfields to turns out much better - can’t say I’m gona go and play the stretch goals and expansion - I suppose they will end up on eBay as soon as I get them in November. The game has an exceptional production quality but ultimately eveyrhting is failed due to its tedious gameplay cycle
My final score is 6/10
This kind of looks like Tales of Arabian nights
30-40 hours in the base game!? Shit the bed!
Easy mode? Shameful
So this is a game you play through once then sell it because you know all the spoilers. Pretty weak recommendation, Tom. Or in game reviewer speak: "Really REALLY weak recommendation."
How do you know that? Did you actually play it? Also it is his personal opinion. A really weak comment from you.
Obviously Tom never played RPG cause you die you make a new character but you have nothing of the old stuff. Pathfinder and dnd are all about that dice rolling. Us RPG players get it.
Kingdom death > every games
Rhaum GamingTV how about no
how about no
Awaken Realms makes good games. But even though they claim to have top tier quality minis on the same level as Cmon just remember that's not true. Just expect ok miniatures, nothing special and you will enjoy their games.
Honest Word Better gameplay is more recommended than better miniatures I think....
@@Dogma-mr7bq Yes
Agreed, CMON and FFG minis are way better, i was frankly a bit disappointed by the minis in Lords of Hellas with the many bent spears and monument body parts that didn’t piece together as seamlessly as I imagined from the KS renders.
Honest Word the miniatures in TG is far better than their earlier games. They have increased size and changed to harder plastics for bases and bendy bits. Their sundrop versions is easily the best sundrop you can get for that cheap prize right now. When I compare these minis to my CMON blood rage minis I would easily say ARs are of higher quality. The CMON games often have bendy bases and weapons, which is not so weird since they prop their games full of minis.
First!