From an Orthodox perspective, that one priest or bishop feels able to 'revisit' and thereby reinterpret the scriptures and tradition and come to whole set of conclusions completely at odds with 2000 years of traditional Christian morality, pretty much ecapsulates the entire problem here. I pray for my many dear protestant friends and family, who are faithful followers of Christ in their own way, that this descent into hell - dressed up as mercy (it is really simple sentimentality) encourages them to stand firm in their witness. As an Orthodox priest, I will try to welcome and treat with love and dignity anyone who comes to me, no matter how disfigured their life - but I will speak to them the Truth (in love) about their need for repentance (God knows we all need it!).
In ordination of women bishops now this. The west is imploding. They're heading to open institutionalized satan worship and adult and child marriage. Glad to live in safe prosperous conservative muslim Maldives.
"...that one priest or bishop feels able to 'revisit' and thereby reinterpret the scriptures and tradition and come to whole set of conclusions completely at odds with 2000 years of traditional Christian morality, pretty much ecapsulates the entire problem here." Yes, it does. The story of how the Anglican Church arrived at this point will make a fascinating book/novel one day. I wish C.S. Lewis were in his prime in our times. As in the "Screwtape Letters," he could portray the psychological process by which Satan whispered in the ears of our bishops, gently suggesting the hurt and harm caused by "The Enemy" were unjust, and that perhaps He had not intended to allow the Scriptures to condemn "love." After all, didn't Jesus command us to "love" one another? And, wouldn't the bishops' friends in Britain's elites laud them for their humanity and kindness in fixing the Enemy's mistake? Thanks for your sympathy and well wishes. We Anglicans outside of the shores of the British Isles will prosper and grow with the help of the Holy Spirit, as the diocese which includes the CofE, sadly, moves further into the camp of the real Enemy. God is great.
I believe the Bishop is in error and has just made up his own Jesus and God. Jesus's interactions with people were NOT always loving, permissive and affirming of unrighteousness, especially to the then pharisees who like today's bishops Christ described as vipers, white washed tombs leading people to their spiritual death. He described them as wolves in sheep's clothing who were devouring the flock instead of leading them to safety........and that is the fruit by which we know these bishops.
That is true! Jesus was fortright in his criticism and condemnation of unrighteiusnessand wrongs. It is easy to make Jesus into the Victoriam image of "gentle, meek and mild." At imes He was far from that,
In ordination of women bishops now this. The west is imploding. They're heading to open institutionalized satan worship and adult and child marriage. Glad to live in safe prosperous conservative muslim Maldives.
It is certainly a "moving away" from Jesus' and The Bible's teaching.. I am sure thse views are sincerely held but so were those of the middle-ages crusaders and the slave traders of the 18th Cenrturys. Both have subsequently been shown to be in error.
@@UnashamedlyGodSquad Might well have been, but the Crusaders were barbaric in doing so AND was it ever right to have a Crusade made up of Children? In war there arte NO winners, but Jesus' example of peacemaking leads to win-win, I believe
Since the apostle Paul warned that it would be amoung the 'bishops' in the church that apostate teachings would arise at Acts 20:28-30, its no wonder that the ratios of those accepting a 'blessing for same sex couples' ( Directly opposite to 1 Cor 6:9,10) amoung the BISHOPS who met to vote on the subject was overwhealmingly 95% in favour while the deacons & members were only around 50/50! makes one think doesnt it?
Dear Peter, that's not quite right. The voting numbers are published on the Church of England website and worth looking at for yourself. The final motion was passed in all three Houses (Bishops, Clergy and Laity) with 57% in favour, 41% against and 2% abstaining across the Synod. Among those elected to Synod (excluding Diocesan Bishops, co-options and ex-officio) there were 210 in favour (54%), 172 against (44%) and 9 abstentions (2%). The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
@@oxforddiocese Sorry If I got that wrong! I felt sure thats how it was reported! Anyway I still feel its a sad day for the COE! I was a choirboy in a boarding school in the 1950's and have many happy memories of attending services at st Martin in the fields e.t.c. There have been so many compromises with the lax moral standards that the church then would have been shocked at in the not too distant past. I also find that the original 'bishps ( greek 'episkopos) were plurel in number in early congregations and just working, mostly family men ( not women! See 1 Tim 3:1,2) The 'monoepiskopate' was just one evidence of a church losing its original identity. Bishops actually became district representatives of the roman empire ( 'Diosease, a roman not Christian designation!). they developed power, presteige and great authority. The Apostle paul would have turned in his grave at 'ring kissing' 'bishops's palaces' 'house of Lords' e.t.c. However The Lord is our judge, not me! I just feel its a shame that this has all happened, though it was ideed fortold by Paul ( See Acts 20:28-30 ). God bless you!
@@JesusSavedMe1000 Actually your comment is insulting and not christian as Peter advised "To be ready to make a defenense before anyone who asks you, but doing so with a mild temper & deep respect". If I dont agree with the 'convesation' I have a rrasonable right to disagree with other comments surely! Please keep it friendly and not so agressive! ( 1 Peter 3:15)
When the witness of Scripture and Tradition is clear, there’s no room for discernment. We are not supposed to “discern” the ten commandments, we are supposed to obey them.
@@oxforddiocese Thank you. I had a read. It is the work of a very kind but very misguided man. When we use Scripture with the aim of providing post-hoc theological justification for a position we've arrived at independently, we use it in the wrong way. That's especially true when the position in question flatly contradicts the clear meaning of Scripture. Yes, Scripture is profoundly susceptible to interpretation - but that doesn't mean you can make it say whatever you want it to say. I mean, you can try, but at a certain point the text is going to resist. The bishop at least has the grace to sound sheepish as he explains away Romans 1:26-7.
Please desist from repeatedly referring everybody who makes particularly succinct comment to the content of the full article. You are working against the cause of Christ and seeking to persuade others to do the same. We are called to take up our cross daily and deny ourselves. It is not an easy path. As Jesus walked the path to the cross Peter vehemently tried to dissuade him to which Jesus made the shocking reply "Get thee behind me Satan, you are a hindrance to me for you are not setting your mind on the things of God but on the things of man"
I think Jesus must be weeping wondering what kind of humanity he died for. The Church is so focused on conforming to woke ideaology it has forgotten to help house the poor and afflicted. Because it is far easier to conform to societal wishes than it is to open it's churches up to give shelter to a homeless person or a place to to take refuge for a few hours away. The seeming to be compassionate rather than being compassionate has what the church has become.
It is not a traditional view of marriage that is being held by those who disagree with the trajectory of the C of E. It is a biblical view of marriage. There is a difference
Oh James, 'woke' isn't something to insult people with. Being 'woke' is about being conscious of all that is happening and where the Spirit is leading us, then doing something about it. It's about removing boundaries to become one in Christ. In case helpful, the Beatitudes for Social Media, might be worth a read. Find it at blog.oxford.anglican.org
The very people (our bishops) who should be safe-guarding the truth of God's word are riding roughshod over it. The very people who should be points of unity are doing all they can to cause division within the Anglican Communion, within the house of bishops and at deanery and parish level. Instead of driving out error our bishops are driving it into the church. Lord have mercy.
Thanks for your comment. You may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
Thank you; I have read it but am totally unconvinced by his theological reasoning and feel that Rev Vaughan Roberts' 'reply'uncovers his arguments in a robust and persuasive way that brings the argument back to the clear teaching of Scripture.
I do not know what bible he has been reading because it is not any I have read. Yes! we need and should have love and compassion to all peoples but Jesus himself said he had not come to change the laws . It was so important that Jesus came from the house of David the prophesies and traditions mean that we today are forgiven in Christ. If those traditions where not held so dear back then as to whom the messiah was going to be well anyone could have said he was a messiah . It seems that the Synod is too scared to stand up against the woke agenda for want of being seen as wrong. Give onto Caesar what is Caesar and on to God what is Gods. The Church is not here to bend its knee to the politics of the world but to glory of God alone.
I want to admire and respect this man for being prepared to change his views where he thinks he should, and for standing up for what he has come to believe is right. But I feel that he and many others are profoundly deceived. 💔
Dear Elizabeth, we encourage you to read the bishop's essay 'Together in Love and Faith' for a better understanding of his journey of discernment and reading of scripture: www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
@Diocese of Oxford ok, thank you. I have read and listened to a number of perspectives from people who have come to believe the Bible does not speak against a homosexual lifestyle. Honestly, I find them all completely without foundation. But I will look at this and give feedback.
Of course he is deceived. Satan is not an ugly gargoyle with red horns but a master deceiver and extremely pursuasive and attractive to fallen humanity as he was with the first man and woman.This is why one needs the Holy Spirit to resist. As a bi man this tickles my ears but we must not be lured by false teachers. Have a look a 2 Timothy 4 v 3-4 and Jude. I have never heard a sermon on those in the 30 years I was in the C of E.
Does it mean Jesus preached one Gospel and then His disciples went out and preached another. God forbid that these voters have altered the Gospel that was preached.
Perhaps we need a better definition of fruit! On the one hand smiley happy people getting what they want, on the other a Crucified Christ doing what his father wanted rather than what he might want!
We encourage you to read the Bishop's essay in full. Available as PDF and ePub here on the website: www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
The Bishop quotes Jesus concerning good and bad fruit, but seems unwilling to accept the clear teaching of Jesus on marriage from the same gospel - Matthew. Good fruit is discerned by obedience to a scriptural way of life and service. I'd be interested to know what else he has changed his mind about? Abortion perhaps? The physical resurrection of Jesus? The deity and uniqueness of Christ? Atheists may bear some "good fruit",but will still be excluded from the kingdom.
Peter, you may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
John, you may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
Jesus said by their fruit you will know them - here are the observable fruits for sinful behaviour. Galatians 5 when the fruit of flesh (sins) are clearly stated, The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality (including homosexuality), impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 And what about Timothy 1 where Paul call homosexuality a sin - We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practising homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers - and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. 1 Timothy 1:8-11 Why does the CofE affirm sin or "bless" sin?
A quote from the essay you reference by Steven Croft - The Bible and the Christian tradition set great store by the test of fruitfulness. Jesus says at the end of the Sermon on the Mount: “In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:17-20) This insight is worked through in various places within the Christian tradition of discernment about ethical questions. St Augustine of Hippo, bishop in North Africa in the 4th century, argues powerfully that the test of whether we are reading Scripture well is the increase of our love for God and for our neighbour. St Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order, also develops the idea of fruit as one key to discernment: does a chosen course of action lead to an increase of faith, hope and love in myself and in others? The conclusion I have drawn, from all of my listening, is that we have a situation in which the present position of the Church of England, set as we are within our present social and missional context, is producing bad fruit. Conversely, the faithful and stable same-sex partnerships I observe seem to be producing good fruit for them and for our wider society. It seems to me that this provides a strong justification for revisiting Scripture and the tradition to see whether a change in our policies and attitudes to same-sex partnerships and marriage can be both justified and blessed. Note that in Galatians 5 homosexuality is listed as one of the fruit of the flesh (i.e. a bad fruit). The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin. Perhaps this is why you very rarely quote the Bible in your essay. Your argument can be summerise like this homosexual people can be nice people therefore homosexuality can be a good thing. This is false as the same can be said for alcoholics, drug addicts and other sinful behaviour which the CofE would condemn rather than bless. The CofE is just compromising and selling out and everyone knows it.
@Jesussavedme1000 - Are you talk to me or the oxford Diocese? Because if you are calling the Bible "false and woke propoganda." then I would have to strongly disagree with you and might suggest you read it
This makes me so sad. I wonder what the martyrs Cranmer and Latimer would make of this? He talks of being influenced by modern society but it is a society steeped in sin and unbelief. So much for “loving not the world” (1 John 2 v15-17). This is not surprising though. The Bible warns of false teachers in Jude and 2 Peter 2. And the warning of Rev 3 v 1-5 applies too. I am not prejudiced as I experience attraction to my own sex as well as the other but the Holy Spirit has given me the grace to stay celibate as a single man. These liberal clergy don’t believe in the authority of scripture and that is why the whole thing is coming apart. It is inverse evangelism whereas instead of the church converting the world the world has conveerted the C of E. It teaches nothing but a vague deism. I have left the C of E for a Baptist church. Unless the C of E goes back to teaching the Bible, closing with Christ, believing he died for our sins, the need to repent and teaches the Bible it is finished and this is why C of E churches up and down the land are virtually empty. Conversely the evangelical churches in my area are packed every Sunday. God will call His own to him.
When you use such Demonic inspired phrases as "The Scriptures are to be INTERPRETED through the lens of love and compassion...". What is really being said is, "We spit on the unbroken, unchangeable BIBLICAL truth that marriage is between one woman and one man for life." Preaching sin is intolerant of God, un-Biblical, destructive claptrap meant to destroy those very people in need of reconciliation with God's wholesome and healing truths.
What an appalling speech. Ideas based on feelings, cultural experiences taking precedence over what God says as how we are to assess what is true. Now we know from medical research people aren't born gay and that the causes are environmental, its easier not harder for the church to say that homosexuality, described for thousands of years as wrong, is still wrong. But repentance brings freedom
P.S I would say to all who are unhappy at the heresy of the C of E to leave it and find a faithful Bible believing and teaching church. Meditate on 2 Corinthians 4: v 14ff and 1 John 2: 15-17. This speech is deeply unscriptural. Love gay and trans people and show them compassion but don’t under any circumstances link a homosexual sexual relationship with scripture: Love the person; hate the sin.
Thanks for your comment. You may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
From an Orthodox perspective, that one priest or bishop feels able to 'revisit' and thereby reinterpret the scriptures and tradition and come to whole set of conclusions completely at odds with 2000 years of traditional Christian morality, pretty much ecapsulates the entire problem here. I pray for my many dear protestant friends and family, who are faithful followers of Christ in their own way, that this descent into hell - dressed up as mercy (it is really simple sentimentality) encourages them to stand firm in their witness. As an Orthodox priest, I will try to welcome and treat with love and dignity anyone who comes to me, no matter how disfigured their life - but I will speak to them the Truth (in love) about their need for repentance (God knows we all need it!).
In ordination of women bishops now this. The west is imploding.
They're heading to open institutionalized satan worship and adult and child marriage.
Glad to live in safe prosperous conservative muslim Maldives.
Thank you. I very much appreciate what you say here.
But I will speak to them the truth in love. Amen
"...that one priest or bishop feels able to 'revisit' and thereby reinterpret the scriptures and tradition and come to whole set of conclusions completely at odds with 2000 years of traditional Christian morality, pretty much ecapsulates the entire problem here."
Yes, it does. The story of how the Anglican Church arrived at this point will make a fascinating book/novel one day. I wish C.S. Lewis were in his prime in our times. As in the "Screwtape Letters," he could portray the psychological process by which Satan whispered in the ears of our bishops, gently suggesting the hurt and harm caused by "The Enemy" were unjust, and that perhaps He had not intended to allow the Scriptures to condemn "love." After all, didn't Jesus command us to "love" one another? And, wouldn't the bishops' friends in Britain's elites laud them for their humanity and kindness in fixing the Enemy's mistake?
Thanks for your sympathy and well wishes. We Anglicans outside of the shores of the British Isles will prosper and grow with the help of the Holy Spirit, as the diocese which includes the CofE, sadly, moves further into the camp of the real Enemy. God is great.
They know to twist the scriptures to suit themselves. Not filled with the Holy Spirit but with evil spirits
I believe the Bishop is in error and has just made up his own Jesus and God. Jesus's interactions with people were NOT always loving, permissive and affirming of unrighteousness, especially to the then pharisees who like today's bishops Christ described as vipers, white washed tombs leading people to their spiritual death. He described them as wolves in sheep's clothing who were devouring the flock instead of leading them to safety........and that is the fruit by which we know these bishops.
That is true! Jesus was fortright in his criticism and condemnation of unrighteiusnessand wrongs. It is easy to make Jesus into the Victoriam image of "gentle, meek and mild." At imes He was far from that,
@@ivorwood5892 Saviour and Judge
I disagree about the “moving forward” , I see it as “moving down”.
In ordination of women bishops now this. The west is imploding.
They're heading to open institutionalized satan worship and adult and child marriage.
Glad to live in safe prosperous conservative muslim Maldives.
It is certainly a "moving away" from Jesus' and The Bible's teaching.. I am sure thse views are sincerely held but so were those of the middle-ages crusaders and the slave traders of the 18th Cenrturys. Both have subsequently been shown to be in error.
@@ivorwood5892 I think the Crusades were necessary in order to keep the Islamic incursions in check. Then again, I'm no expert
@@UnashamedlyGodSquad Might well have been, but the Crusaders were barbaric in doing so AND was it ever right to have a Crusade made up of Children? In war there arte NO winners, but Jesus' example of peacemaking leads to win-win, I believe
@@ivorwood5892 Who's checking the incursions now?
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father in heaven.
Since the apostle Paul warned that it would be amoung the 'bishops' in the church that apostate teachings would arise at Acts 20:28-30, its no wonder that the ratios of those accepting a 'blessing for same sex couples' ( Directly opposite to 1 Cor 6:9,10) amoung the BISHOPS who met to vote on the subject was overwhealmingly 95% in favour while the deacons & members were only around 50/50! makes one think doesnt it?
Dear Peter, that's not quite right. The voting numbers are published on the Church of England website and worth looking at for yourself. The final motion was passed in all three Houses (Bishops, Clergy and Laity) with 57% in favour, 41% against and 2% abstaining across the Synod.
Among those elected to Synod (excluding Diocesan Bishops, co-options and ex-officio) there were 210 in favour (54%), 172 against (44%) and 9 abstentions (2%).
The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
@@oxforddiocese Sorry If I got that wrong! I felt sure thats how it was reported! Anyway I still feel its a sad day for the COE! I was a choirboy in a boarding school in the 1950's and have many happy memories of attending services at st Martin in the fields e.t.c. There have been so many compromises with the lax moral standards that the church then would have been shocked at in the not too distant past. I also find that the original 'bishps ( greek 'episkopos) were plurel in number in early congregations and just working, mostly family men ( not women! See 1 Tim 3:1,2) The 'monoepiskopate' was just one evidence of a church losing its original identity. Bishops actually became district representatives of the roman empire ( 'Diosease, a roman not Christian designation!). they developed power, presteige and great authority. The Apostle paul would have turned in his grave at 'ring kissing' 'bishops's palaces' 'house of Lords' e.t.c. However The Lord is our judge, not me! I just feel its a shame that this has all happened, though it was ideed fortold by Paul ( See Acts 20:28-30 ). God bless you!
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
@@JesusSavedMe1000 Actually your comment is insulting and not christian as Peter advised "To be ready to make a defenense before anyone who asks you, but doing so with a mild temper & deep respect". If I dont agree with the 'convesation' I have a rrasonable right to
disagree with other comments surely! Please keep it friendly and not so agressive! ( 1 Peter 3:15)
When the witness of Scripture and Tradition is clear, there’s no room for discernment. We are not supposed to “discern” the ten commandments, we are supposed to obey them.
The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
@@oxforddiocese Thank you. I had a read. It is the work of a very kind but very misguided man. When we use Scripture with the aim of providing post-hoc theological justification for a position we've arrived at independently, we use it in the wrong way. That's especially true when the position in question flatly contradicts the clear meaning of Scripture. Yes, Scripture is profoundly susceptible to interpretation - but that doesn't mean you can make it say whatever you want it to say. I mean, you can try, but at a certain point the text is going to resist. The bishop at least has the grace to sound sheepish as he explains away Romans 1:26-7.
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
Please desist from repeatedly referring everybody who makes particularly succinct comment to the content of the full article. You are working against the cause of Christ and seeking to persuade others to do the same. We are called to take up our cross daily and deny ourselves. It is not an easy path. As Jesus walked the path to the cross Peter vehemently tried to dissuade him to which Jesus made the shocking reply "Get thee behind me Satan, you are a hindrance to me for you are not setting your mind on the things of God but on the things of man"
I think Jesus must be weeping wondering what kind of humanity he died for. The Church is so focused on conforming to woke ideaology it has forgotten to help house the poor and afflicted. Because it is far easier to conform to societal wishes than it is to open it's churches up to give shelter to a homeless person or a place to to take refuge for a few hours away. The seeming to be compassionate rather than being compassionate has what the church has become.
The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
Jesus demonstrated the love and acceptance of God but he also calls us to leave behind our sinful lifestyles (John 8:11).
The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
It is not a traditional view of marriage that is being held by those who disagree with the trajectory of the C of E. It is a biblical view of marriage. There is a difference
The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
Oh James, 'woke' isn't something to insult people with. Being 'woke' is about being conscious of all that is happening and where the Spirit is leading us, then doing something about it. It's about removing boundaries to become one in Christ. In case helpful, the Beatitudes for Social Media, might be worth a read. Find it at blog.oxford.anglican.org
The very people (our bishops) who should be safe-guarding the truth of God's word are riding roughshod over it. The very people who should be points of unity are doing all they can to cause division within the Anglican Communion, within the house of bishops and at deanery and parish level. Instead of driving out error our bishops are driving it into the church. Lord have mercy.
Thanks for your comment. You may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
Thank you; I have read it but am totally unconvinced by his theological reasoning and feel that Rev Vaughan Roberts' 'reply'uncovers his arguments in a robust and persuasive way that brings the argument back to the clear teaching of Scripture.
I do not know what bible he has been reading because it is not any I have read. Yes! we need and should have love and compassion to all peoples but Jesus himself said he had not come to change the laws . It was so important that Jesus came from the house of David the prophesies and traditions mean that we today are forgiven in Christ. If those traditions where not held so dear back then as to whom the messiah was going to be well anyone could have said he was a messiah . It seems that the Synod is too scared to stand up against the woke agenda for want of being seen as wrong. Give onto Caesar what is Caesar and on to God what is Gods. The Church is not here to bend its knee to the politics of the world but to glory of God alone.
You might find it helpful to read the Bishop's essay, Together in Love and Faith. Available to download from the website in PDF and ePUB format.
Married at St Ebbe's, and I played the organ!!
I don't want to judge anyone or their lifestyle, but this clearly fly's in the face of biblical teaching. " Go and sin no more ".
I want to admire and respect this man for being prepared to change his views where he thinks he should, and for standing up for what he has come to believe is right. But I feel that he and many others are profoundly deceived. 💔
Dear Elizabeth, we encourage you to read the bishop's essay 'Together in Love and Faith' for a better understanding of his journey of discernment and reading of scripture: www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
@Diocese of Oxford ok, thank you.
I have read and listened to a number of perspectives from people who have come to believe the Bible does not speak against a homosexual lifestyle. Honestly, I find them all completely without foundation. But I will look at this and give feedback.
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
I'm sorry, @James T - who is your comment directed at? 🤔
Of course he is deceived. Satan is not an ugly gargoyle with red horns but a master deceiver and extremely pursuasive and attractive to fallen humanity as he was with the first man and woman.This is why one needs the Holy Spirit to resist. As a bi man this tickles my ears but we must not be lured by false teachers. Have a look a 2 Timothy 4 v 3-4 and Jude. I have never heard a sermon on those in the 30 years I was in the C of E.
I left the C of E a few years ago
Jesus did warn us about wolves in sheep’s clothing
The CofE is captured.
Does it mean Jesus preached one Gospel and then His disciples went out and preached another. God forbid that these voters have altered the Gospel that was preached.
The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
They have the nerve to wonder why their churches are empty. Not a true believer among them.
Perhaps we need a better definition of fruit! On the one hand smiley happy people getting what they want, on the other a Crucified Christ doing what his father wanted rather than what he might want!
We encourage you to read the Bishop's essay in full. Available as PDF and ePub here on the website: www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
The Bishop quotes Jesus concerning good and bad fruit, but seems unwilling to accept the clear teaching of Jesus on marriage from the same gospel - Matthew. Good fruit is discerned by obedience to a scriptural way of life and service. I'd be interested to know what else he has changed his mind about? Abortion perhaps? The physical resurrection of Jesus? The deity and uniqueness of Christ? Atheists may bear some "good fruit",but will still be excluded from the kingdom.
Peter, you may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
The Bishop doesn’t seem to realise that true love involves guidance and discipline.
John, you may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
Jesus said by their fruit you will know them - here are the observable fruits for sinful behaviour.
Galatians 5 when the fruit of flesh (sins) are clearly stated, The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality (including homosexuality), impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
And what about Timothy 1 where Paul call homosexuality a sin - We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practising homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers - and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
1 Timothy 1:8-11
Why does the CofE affirm sin or "bless" sin?
The bishop's essay can be found online here and we encourage you to read it in full. www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php
A quote from the essay you reference by Steven Croft -
The Bible and the Christian tradition set great store by the test of fruitfulness.
Jesus says at the end of the Sermon on the Mount:
“In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears
bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good
fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into
the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:17-20)
This insight is worked through in various places within the Christian tradition
of discernment about ethical questions. St Augustine of Hippo, bishop in
North Africa in the 4th century, argues powerfully that the test of whether
we are reading Scripture well is the increase of our love for God and for our
neighbour. St Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order, also develops the
idea of fruit as one key to discernment: does a chosen course of action lead to
an increase of faith, hope and love in myself and in others?
The conclusion I have drawn, from all of my listening, is that we have a
situation in which the present position of the Church of England, set as we
are within our present social and missional context, is producing bad fruit.
Conversely, the faithful and stable same-sex partnerships I observe seem to be
producing good fruit for them and for our wider society. It seems to me that
this provides a strong justification for revisiting Scripture and the tradition to
see whether a change in our policies and attitudes to same-sex partnerships and
marriage can be both justified and blessed.
Note that in Galatians 5 homosexuality is listed as one of the fruit of the flesh (i.e. a bad fruit).
The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin. Perhaps this is why you very rarely quote the Bible in your essay. Your argument can be summerise like this homosexual people can be nice people therefore homosexuality can be a good thing. This is false as the same can be said for alcoholics, drug addicts and other sinful behaviour which the CofE would condemn rather than bless.
The CofE is just compromising and selling out and everyone knows it.
Stop spamming the conversation with your false and woke propaganda
@Jesussavedme1000 - Are you talk to me or the oxford Diocese?
Because if you are calling the Bible "false and woke propoganda." then I would have to strongly disagree with you and might suggest you read it
This makes me so sad. I wonder what the martyrs Cranmer and Latimer would make of this? He talks of being influenced by modern society but it is a society steeped in sin and unbelief. So much for “loving not the world” (1 John 2 v15-17). This is not surprising though. The Bible warns of false teachers in Jude and 2 Peter 2. And the warning of Rev 3 v 1-5 applies too. I am not prejudiced as I experience attraction to my own sex as well as the other but the Holy Spirit has given me the grace to stay celibate as a single man. These liberal clergy don’t believe in the authority of scripture and that is why the whole thing is coming apart. It is inverse evangelism whereas instead of the church converting the world the world has conveerted the C of E. It teaches nothing but a vague deism. I have left the C of E for a Baptist church. Unless the C of E goes back to teaching the Bible, closing with Christ, believing he died for our sins, the need to repent and teaches the Bible it is finished and this is why C of E churches up and down the land are virtually empty. Conversely the evangelical churches in my area are packed every Sunday. God will call His own to him.
When you use such Demonic inspired phrases as "The Scriptures are to be INTERPRETED through the lens of love and compassion...". What is really being said is, "We spit on the unbroken, unchangeable BIBLICAL truth that marriage is between one woman and one man for life." Preaching sin is intolerant of God, un-Biblical, destructive claptrap meant to destroy those very people in need of reconciliation with God's wholesome and healing truths.
What an appalling speech. Ideas based on feelings, cultural experiences taking precedence over what God says as how we are to assess what is true. Now we know from medical research people aren't born gay and that the causes are environmental, its easier not harder for the church to say that homosexuality, described for thousands of years as wrong, is still wrong. But repentance brings freedom
P.S I would say to all who are unhappy at the heresy of the C of E to leave it and find a faithful Bible believing and teaching church. Meditate on 2 Corinthians 4: v 14ff and 1 John 2: 15-17. This speech is deeply unscriptural. Love gay and trans people and show them compassion but don’t under any circumstances link a homosexual sexual relationship with scripture: Love the person; hate the sin.
Thanks for your comment. You may like to download Bishop Steven's essay, Together in Love and Faith, for a better understanding of where he's coming from. Available free of charge in PDF and ePUB format here www.oxford.anglican.org/news/same-sex-marriage-in-cofe.php#order
Thank you Bishop Steven for your words of wisdom, courage and compassion.
Hes fallen. His fruits and statements are revealing he is not of Christ.