I've had pretty good luck with Edelbrock cylinder heads, unshrouded the valves and did a good valve job on them and they flowed more than any stealth head. Plus I hit them with 250 shot of nitrous for many years and no problems
Everyone complains about the small intake ports of the mopar big block. While they are small compared to the Hemi,BBChevy,and the phord 460, they were actually excellent on the streets back in the day. Thats because their small size[on a 440] made for high mixture velocity and great torque down low with the rear gearing of most street cars then. They didnt have overdrive transmissions with high numerical rear gears or 8 speeds like todays musclecars; they mostly had like 3.23 or 3.55 [medium gear ratios] which created a pig with giant sized intake ports,eapecially moving 3600-4000 ibs from a standing start. They worked great for the intended purpose.
Last year my mild port 906 cracked. Looking at the cost to work up another iron set I chose Stealth heads. They were the best choice for mild build. So far I am very happy with them.
906s work fine i got the 906 flowing enough to make a bit over 600hp ! that works fine for me . ive got some 452s im going to play with as well i ported a whole lot of small block chevy heads the big mopar heads seem to respond to the exact stuff. i block off the crossover for some of my own reasons. it will warm your fuel up as well . lead is a shock absorber
I have a set of Edelbrock Performer heads , they have been on 4 different engines worked by Dan Smith in St.Louis I have a Racer Brown flat tappet cam - STX22 , I'm making about 750 HP There is no way I would run a chi-com stealth head
The comment section is always split. Edelbrocks are poured, cast and machined in the US (still in California, believe it or not!). The 440 Source heads are cast in China but machined in the US. And that's why they're so much cheaper. People are free to vote with their wallets.
Those heat riser holes worked for a while till carbon would seal the holes shut I had a 318 that I tore down to re seal the engine and I had to chip away the carbon that was packed in them heat riser ports and I tore the same engine down about 4 years later to rebuild it and the ports were damn near blocked off with carbon again so they don't last long before they become blocked.
This was more prevalent to the sbm engines 273 318 360 & 340 . If the heat crossover valves get stuck shut by chance which does happen this causes those heat riser ports to clog up much faster . On my 318s I had I usually took them off & ran dual exhaust on them from the manifolds back & didn't have much for problems in the cold mn weather even with those heat riser ports covered using the gaskets that allows this on my 68 Dodge military crew cab i had years ago.
Want to hurt a little more. I worked at a Mobil station in 76 pumping 105 octane premium for 48 cents a gallon. I only got paid $2.75 per hour too. My coronet got 10mpg so I was always broke lol
@@Roosters_Restos I quit smoking Labor Day 1969, Marlboros in the red and white flip top box were .35 cents a pack and Sunco 104 octane lead free premium was .35 cent a gallon. Funny that cigarettes became more expensive than gas. My 67 Hemi Satellite was better on gas than your Coronet as long as I didn't open the secondaries, I was always broke back then also, all we carried in our wallets was cash, driver's license, draft card, insurance card and registration. Those were the days; too bad they had to end.
@@grantellis3046 I'm in NC Pa and our fuel comes into Vestal Ny and is trucked in from there so we pay the price for that, proximity to the refineries makes a difference. I guess Newsom is fixing things for California so who knows what prices will be in the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was an explosion on the Vestal Parkway that prompted the reformulation of fuel to reduce the volatility.
Firing order the same as a SBC only the other way rotation makes it real easy if your a Chevy guy and the 1-8 cylinder numbers are the same too not like Ford being all different in firing order and cylinder #
They need to evolve more . Even the trick flow 270 aren't that impressive. Chevy BB heads the small ones are 270 , big ones are 365 and we won't even talk about symmetrical designs.
Totally fair comment. INDY has taken wedge designs further with their racier models; 440Source, Edelbrock and Trick Flow are keeping things closer to stock because of the limited aftermarket options.
The answer to the BBC with wedge stuff was the Koffel B1 series, which was an 80's design, and its still the best wedge head design. It's ignored because people are scared or too cheap to change pistons.
How about the 426 Stage lll heads? Larger ports and bigger valves. 1.88" exhaust if I remember correctly? I raced Mopars in the 70s and the Stage cars 62-64 were fast cars in Super Stock classes.
Factory heads are alright with a lot of work. Believe it or not the smog heads flow about the same as the 915/906 but with less porting. Check out a 4 part article called Cylinder Heads part I, II, III and IV by Steve Dulcich. He really gets into it in the articles. 280 and 220 CFM at reasonable not stupid valve lift. Valve size is interesting. The exhausts prefer a smaller valve than the 1.81s that were in fashion 25 years ago (with some caveats). Of course no one would bother these days with cheap light heads costing half the labor of porting factory iron heads. Even crappy aluminum heads flow out of the box 280 and 220CFM but OEM iron heads can be made to flow reasonably. The articles are still on the internet. A great read but long. If you have a short attention span you mightn't like them.
When i was in my early 20s..i has a couple of mopar ..A 68 charger that put a 426 wedge out of a marine application. A 66 Belvedere with a 440 , a 4 speed , 9 inch dana . . I perfer a engine that can makes hp past 5500 or 6000 . I just thought that right or wrong the mopar wedge did not have enough cylinder head flow to make the power i wanted . At least the heads i had seen . So i moved on .. Be interesting to see what was or is available in cylinders heads . . I just thought that the hemi was the what mopar used to make the power i liked
The Wedge head is handicapped by the nature of its design; that’s why the Hemi was so successful. Max Wedges brought the wedge’s rpm capabilities up but nowhere near the level of the Hemis.
David, there’s no reason to angrily spam our comment section or make personal attacks. All I said was that per Chrysler casting records, the 1970 “906” was in no way revised or superior to previous years, and was replaced by the 346 (1971-1972) and 345 (1972-1973). I would presume Chrysler’s records would be more reliable than a copy of Hemings or a Chilton’s Guide. But that is presumptive.
Oh and the 1972 440+6 had an advertised 10.3:1 compression ratio per Chrysler's official literature: ultimatemusclecar.com/cars-with-a-440-six-pack-from-the-factory/
If the head isn't flowing mid 200's by .400 lift and at least 320 by .700 you're wasting your time and money. For reference, a Mopar W2 small block head designed in 1976, with minimal cleanup, will out flow any of the heads presented in this video. The cylinder head has always been limiting factor on a 440. A 454 rectangle head flows around 310cfm untouched.... Just sayin'.
Correct. Hence our comment about it being very similar to the SBC head. And in all fairness, the W2 head was designed for high RPM racing only, not street use - so that's a bit of apples vs. oranges. Edelbrock was first to market decades ago with the RPM Performer head and has been a top seller ever since - that is, until Trick Flow FINALLY gave us the 240 and 270 heads.
You're right, and that's why we mention the design of the 440 head being very similar to that of the SBC. And in all fairness, the W2 was purposefully designed for all-out high RPM race applications and very little of it resembles the street equivalent 340/360 head. Edelbrock was first to market with the RPM Performer and it was a top seller until Trick Flow FINALLY gave us the 240 and 270 heads.
@@moparconnection Incorrect. W2's were seriously being considered as a production head on the Lil' Red Express truck. Different valvetrain hardware and a specific intake added too much cost. Flow is flow. Look at the flow figures on an 5.7 Eagle Hemi head, which flow mid 200's @ .300-.350 lift and peak at around 310-320ish..... right in line with the W2. I have built countless W2 headed street engines, they are big block killers to say the least.
Oh they're monsters for sure, no doubt about that. But yours is the first comment I've ever heard of the W2 being considered for street use. I'll have to reach out to some of my older Chrysler contacts. That would've been wild if true!
Mopar need more performance heads there is not much to choose from if it's a LA/Magnum you got Edelbrock and Trick Flow and a few other of the same combo and we still playing with blocks that were made in the late 50's early 60's technology even Magnum engines you think they would of used it to design a better block but all the did was change how the valve train was oiled something Mopar never had a issue with and that was it. Now the whole V8 engine thing for Mopar is now gone thanks to a European company taking it over and going to destroy any part of Chrysler that there is left.
My view is what are you going to be doing with the engine . Every head has a benefit. But it comes down to money and common sense. You’re not going to port 906s and spend 2k doing that inless your racing in a F.A.S.T class . I do prefer Trickflow stuff for a pocket friendly parts and like how they try to make it factory style bolt on
The Trick Flows (even in their own words) are what the next evolutionary step should’ve been for the Edelbrock RPM’s (230 to 270). I agree with putting so much effort into the 906’s just to compete with a box stock Stealth or E-street.
The factory BB heads are awful. They are not like chevy SB heads at all, they do not have a short side in the ports, and the valves are about the shortest in the industry. Being that awful, they actually work pretty decently slightly ported. Maybe thanks for the effort that Direct connection put in them. The 906's are NOT the same as the later heads. The difference is in the intake port, 906's actually had some short side and shares the port design with 915 closed chamber heads. The exhaust ports in 915 & up are practically the same, as are the intake ports in the post 906 heads. The 452 heads didn't have hardened seats put in, the seats were flame hardened, gone after first valve grind.
Pretty much all the “budget heads” really suck for anything performance, just look at the combustion chambers, all junk, the victor, trick flow, Indy, and b1s have good chambers.
The rough as-cast runners aren’t very encouraging but the combustion chambers look great. (Not sure what you’re seeing that I’m not.) But all of those you listed are big dollar heads.
I am a racer and engine builder and won't sell edelbrock junk. It doesn't flow end of story. Indy or use stock stuff and port it is the only options here
@@moparconnection just the d shaped chamber, and where the bowl area comes into the chamber, Eric winegardner has a great video on them, if you get a chance check it out…. Btw I also run a set of cnc ported stealths on my 440 lol
I was the first person ever to buy a 440-1 kit from INDY Cyl head outside of the states. It was in 1990, I flew to Orlando from the UK and drove to ICH through the night to pick it all up, I had a guided tour of the place by one of the Bros...then drove back and flew home with the full kit carried on as hand luggage. they went on a '64 Signet I built with a 440 under them, went 10.15 off the trailer and took Europe by storm. I have a '68 Roadrunner ive owned 41 years now, stock 383 I gut it to 12.59 best in 1989. I have just put some Edelbrock heads on it and 2 of the valves are 15thou lower than the others...progress eh LOL
I've had pretty good luck with Edelbrock cylinder heads, unshrouded the valves and did a good valve job on them and they flowed more than any stealth head. Plus I hit them with 250 shot of nitrous for many years and no problems
Awesome! Glad to hear it.
what's a stealth head?
In NHRA Superstock , is Eldebrock the only allowable aluminum replacement , for a 383 to 440 ,,, ?
Y’know that is a good question. I believe that was the case for years but I don’t know if it has been changed since.
Everyone complains about the small intake ports of the mopar big block. While they are small compared to the Hemi,BBChevy,and the phord 460, they were actually excellent on the streets back in the day. Thats because their small size[on a 440] made for high mixture velocity and great torque down low with the rear gearing of most street cars then. They didnt have overdrive transmissions with high numerical rear gears or 8 speeds like todays musclecars; they mostly had like 3.23 or 3.55 [medium gear ratios] which created a pig with giant sized intake ports,eapecially moving 3600-4000 ibs from a standing start. They worked great for the intended purpose.
Great points! You’re 100% right.
Last year my mild port 906 cracked. Looking at the cost to work up another iron set I chose Stealth heads. They were the best choice for mild build. So far I am very happy with them.
Glad you are happy with those heads!
I have a set of these on a 505 stroker/ 440 block. Excellent for power.
906s work fine i got the 906 flowing enough to make a bit over 600hp ! that works fine for me . ive got some 452s im going to play with as well i ported a whole lot of small block
chevy heads the big mopar heads seem to respond to the exact stuff. i block off the crossover for some of my own reasons. it will warm your fuel up as well . lead is a shock absorber
Glad that you’re happy with them!
I have a set of Edelbrock Performer heads , they have been on 4 different engines worked by Dan Smith in St.Louis
I have a Racer Brown flat tappet cam - STX22 , I'm making about 750 HP
There is no way I would run a chi-com stealth head
The comment section is always split. Edelbrocks are poured, cast and machined in the US (still in California, believe it or not!). The 440 Source heads are cast in China but machined in the US. And that's why they're so much cheaper. People are free to vote with their wallets.
where can i get that intake manifold gasket
We typically buy the .020" from Mr. Gasket and the .040" from Fel-Pro; both available through Summit Racing.
Those heat riser holes worked for a while till carbon would seal the holes shut I had a 318 that I tore down to re seal the engine and I had to chip away the carbon that was packed in them heat riser ports and I tore the same engine down about 4 years later to rebuild it and the ports were damn near blocked off with carbon again so they don't last long before they become blocked.
That’s a great point; they don’t seem to last very long at all.
This was more prevalent to the sbm engines 273 318 360 & 340 . If the heat crossover valves get stuck shut by chance which does happen this causes those heat riser ports to clog up much faster . On my 318s I had I usually took them off & ran dual exhaust on them from the manifolds back & didn't have much for problems in the cold mn weather even with those heat riser ports covered using the gaskets that allows this on my 68 Dodge military crew cab i had years ago.
I have Nice MP 425 Aluminium heads. FLow Nr 310cfm (0.585 Lift)..Good Hp 640Hp..In May Challenger 70SE sixpack 440cui!!!
Very nice!
Not to make anyone cry, but in 1964 they would have gas wars between the local stations, 5 gallons for a dollar, normally .23 cent a gallon.
That does hurt a little to read. 😂
Want to hurt a little more. I worked at a Mobil station in 76 pumping 105 octane premium for 48 cents a gallon. I only got paid $2.75 per hour too. My coronet got 10mpg so I was always broke lol
@@Roosters_Restos I quit smoking Labor Day 1969, Marlboros in the red and white flip top box were .35 cents a pack and Sunco 104 octane lead free premium was .35 cent a gallon. Funny that cigarettes became more expensive than gas. My 67 Hemi Satellite was better on gas than your Coronet as long as I didn't open the secondaries, I was always broke back then also, all we carried in our wallets was cash, driver's license, draft card, insurance card and registration. Those were the days; too bad they had to end.
FYI, growing up in Southern California in 1969 gas war prices were as low as .19 cents per gallon
@@grantellis3046 I'm in NC Pa and our fuel comes into Vestal Ny and is trucked in from there so we pay the price for that, proximity to the refineries makes a difference. I guess Newsom is fixing things for California so who knows what prices will be in the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was an explosion on the Vestal Parkway that prompted the reformulation of fuel to reduce the volatility.
Firing order the same as a SBC only the other way rotation makes it real easy if your a Chevy guy and the 1-8 cylinder numbers are the same too not like Ford being all different in firing order and cylinder #
Ford has quite a few different firing orders depending on which engine you’re messing with.
They need to evolve more . Even the trick flow 270 aren't that impressive. Chevy BB heads the small ones are 270 , big ones are 365 and we won't even talk about symmetrical designs.
Totally fair comment. INDY has taken wedge designs further with their racier models; 440Source, Edelbrock and Trick Flow are keeping things closer to stock because of the limited aftermarket options.
Massive heads and still gutless...the brand X way....🤣
Unless you want to use pricey offset rockers that's what you get.
They did... It's called a Hemi!
The answer to the BBC with wedge stuff was the Koffel B1 series, which was an 80's design, and its still the best wedge head design. It's ignored because people are scared or too cheap to change pistons.
How about the 426 Stage lll heads? Larger ports and bigger valves. 1.88" exhaust if I remember correctly? I raced Mopars in the 70s and the Stage cars 62-64 were fast cars in Super Stock classes.
Yeah Jim and I wanted to cover the Max Wedge stuff in another video. Super cool stuff!
Rumor was the Heat risers were installed to keep the motors Cubic inches from shrinkage in the cold winter days before you took it out on a cruise...
Shrinkage!
In 1980s they raced for 20 dollars on the streets. on back roads or a tank of gas
Heck yeah! I miss those days!
Factory heads are alright with a lot of work.
Believe it or not the smog heads flow about the same as the 915/906 but with less porting.
Check out a 4 part article called Cylinder Heads part I, II, III and IV by Steve Dulcich.
He really gets into it in the articles. 280 and 220 CFM at reasonable not stupid valve lift. Valve size is interesting. The exhausts prefer a smaller valve than the 1.81s that were in fashion 25 years ago (with some caveats).
Of course no one would bother these days with cheap light heads costing half the labor of porting factory iron heads. Even crappy aluminum heads flow out of the box 280 and 220CFM but OEM iron heads can be made to flow reasonably.
The articles are still on the internet. A great read but long. If you have a short attention span you mightn't like them.
I worked with Steve when he was writing these for Mopar Muscle. Very detailed and informative. Great suggestion!
When i was in my early 20s..i has a couple of mopar ..A 68 charger that put a 426 wedge out of a marine application. A 66 Belvedere with a 440 , a 4 speed , 9 inch dana . . I perfer a engine that can makes hp past 5500 or 6000 . I just thought that right or wrong the mopar wedge did not have enough cylinder head flow to make the power i wanted . At least the heads i had seen . So i moved on .. Be interesting to see what was or is available in cylinders heads . . I just thought that the hemi was the what mopar used to make the power i liked
The Wedge head is handicapped by the nature of its design; that’s why the Hemi was so successful. Max Wedges brought the wedge’s rpm capabilities up but nowhere near the level of the Hemis.
Prove with dyno tests edelbrpcks are superior tp 906 heads
David, there’s no reason to angrily spam our comment section or make personal attacks. All I said was that per Chrysler casting records, the 1970 “906” was in no way revised or superior to previous years, and was replaced by the 346 (1971-1972) and 345 (1972-1973). I would presume Chrysler’s records would be more reliable than a copy of Hemings or a Chilton’s Guide. But that is presumptive.
Oh and the 1972 440+6 had an advertised 10.3:1 compression ratio per Chrysler's official literature: ultimatemusclecar.com/cars-with-a-440-six-pack-from-the-factory/
If the head isn't flowing mid 200's by .400 lift and at least 320 by .700 you're wasting your time and money. For reference, a Mopar W2 small block head designed in 1976, with minimal cleanup, will out flow any of the heads presented in this video. The cylinder head has always been limiting factor on a 440. A 454 rectangle head flows around 310cfm untouched.... Just sayin'.
Correct. Hence our comment about it being very similar to the SBC head. And in all fairness, the W2 head was designed for high RPM racing only, not street use - so that's a bit of apples vs. oranges. Edelbrock was first to market decades ago with the RPM Performer head and has been a top seller ever since - that is, until Trick Flow FINALLY gave us the 240 and 270 heads.
You're right, and that's why we mention the design of the 440 head being very similar to that of the SBC. And in all fairness, the W2 was purposefully designed for all-out high RPM race applications and very little of it resembles the street equivalent 340/360 head. Edelbrock was first to market with the RPM Performer and it was a top seller until Trick Flow FINALLY gave us the 240 and 270 heads.
@@moparconnection Incorrect. W2's were seriously being considered as a production head on the Lil' Red Express truck. Different valvetrain hardware and a specific intake added too much cost. Flow is flow. Look at the flow figures on an 5.7 Eagle Hemi head, which flow mid 200's @ .300-.350 lift and peak at around 310-320ish..... right in line with the W2. I have built countless W2 headed street engines, they are big block killers to say the least.
Oh they're monsters for sure, no doubt about that. But yours is the first comment I've ever heard of the W2 being considered for street use. I'll have to reach out to some of my older Chrysler contacts. That would've been wild if true!
Mopar need more performance heads there is not much to choose from if it's a LA/Magnum you got Edelbrock and Trick Flow and a few other of the same combo and we still playing with blocks that were made in the late 50's early 60's technology even Magnum engines you think they would of used it to design a better block but all the did was change how the valve train was oiled something Mopar never had a issue with and that was it. Now the whole V8 engine thing for Mopar is now gone thanks to a European company taking it over and going to destroy any part of Chrysler that there is left.
Sadly yes, the SB Mopar market support is pretty thin.
My view is what are you going to be doing with the engine . Every head has a benefit. But it comes down to money and common sense. You’re not going to port 906s and spend 2k doing that inless your racing in a F.A.S.T class . I do prefer Trickflow stuff for a pocket friendly parts and like how they try to make it factory style bolt on
The Trick Flows (even in their own words) are what the next evolutionary step should’ve been for the Edelbrock RPM’s (230 to 270). I agree with putting so much effort into the 906’s just to compete with a box stock Stealth or E-street.
The factory BB heads are awful. They are not like chevy SB heads at all, they do not have a short side in the ports, and the valves are about the shortest in the industry.
Being that awful, they actually work pretty decently slightly ported. Maybe thanks for the effort that Direct connection put in them.
The 906's are NOT the same as the later heads. The difference is in the intake port, 906's actually had some short side and shares the port design with 915 closed chamber heads.
The exhaust ports in 915 & up are practically the same, as are the intake ports in the post 906 heads. The 452 heads didn't have hardened seats put in, the seats were flame hardened, gone after first valve grind.
Yes,‘you’re correct. Saying the “hardened seats were put in” was poor phrasing. Thank you for catching that.
Edlebrock crap, 440 source decent stock replacement plus a little, AFR decent, Indy decent.
Have you experienced failures from Edelbrock?
Not a fan of Edelbrock heads
No? Bad experience?
Pretty much all the “budget heads” really suck for anything performance, just look at the combustion chambers, all junk, the victor, trick flow, Indy, and b1s have good chambers.
The rough as-cast runners aren’t very encouraging but the combustion chambers look great. (Not sure what you’re seeing that I’m not.) But all of those you listed are big dollar heads.
I am a racer and engine builder and won't sell edelbrock junk. It doesn't flow end of story. Indy or use stock stuff and port it is the only options here
@@moparconnection just the d shaped chamber, and where the bowl area comes into the chamber, Eric winegardner has a great video on them, if you get a chance check it out…. Btw I also run a set of cnc ported stealths on my 440 lol
I was the first person ever to buy a 440-1 kit from INDY Cyl head outside of the states. It was in 1990, I flew to Orlando from the UK and drove to ICH through the night to pick it all up, I had a guided tour of the place by one of the Bros...then drove back and flew home with the full kit carried on as hand luggage. they went on a '64 Signet I built with a 440 under them, went 10.15 off the trailer and took Europe by storm. I have a '68 Roadrunner ive owned 41 years now, stock 383 I gut it to 12.59 best in 1989. I have just put some Edelbrock heads on it and 2 of the valves are 15thou lower than the others...progress eh LOL
That's an incredible story about INDY! Thanks for sharing!