Why Your Script is Too Complex
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
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Today I'm talking about how to focus your story and why films that focus on telling a story about one single idea are actually more complex and interesting than stories that try to handle multiple ideas and issues.
Instagram @mowery
#Screenwriting - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
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Thanks
i really enjoyed this video! i also think that by honing in on one idea, you are already able to subliminally add other ideas to it with perspective.
Tyler Mowery Hey Tyler, I found this video interesting in that I connected a few dots from when I was attending film school I’m a new way- I know you used the example of Whiplash representing greatness, and whether it’s worth sacrificing for or not, but can you give other specific examples, or better yet a list of central ideas that have driven stories?
Thank you
tyler mowery am a new writer i use to study in ur video and have help me to be more competitive in script write thanks
it took me a while to really understand that my first scripts won't be perfect, and me being the perfectionist I am, never finished a script cause of the fear of it being terrible. Your videos have helped me to not hate my ideas and trying to finish a story once :). thanks
That’s awesome to hear!
Word! Tyler's course is a real gem. 💎
Ana Paula Tirado wish you all the very best.
Same problem here man.
@@valhatan3907 Same
Simplicity is beautiful.
Amazing advice. I feel like we spend too much time looking at genius filmmakers and everything they're able to accomplish and in the end of the day we feel like if we're not able to achieve that level of greatness in our first tries then we're failures, but that's not true at all.
Bro. Talk about perfect timing, this is exactly what I need while writing a script for a play at school
Glad to hear it!
The genius of Inception is that it obscures its simple theme with details. Inception, at its core, is a story about the narratives we construct to deal with grief. The entire story-universe is built to externalize this theme. Cobb cannot deal with the death of his wife, and he can’t deal with it because he feels he caused it. He implanted the narrative in her subconscious that led her to kill herself. The need to stop constructing narratives and to accept reality is the fundamental fixture of the entire story. It’s where we end the film. And the ambiguity of the spinning top is to ask us whether or not he’s succeeded. Has he lied to himself and fallen deep into a delusion? Or has he truly achieved catharsis and found a way to move on? If this fundamental narrative question wasn’t present in the story, the whole film would be a meaningless exercise.
Inception is not about a heist. They aren’t going there to take something, they’re trying to leave something behind-make a businessman accept the lie that his deceased father was proud of him. By the end, the businessman has accepted this false narrative and it’s going to screw him over. What we’re meant to ask is whether Cobb has met a similar fate.
The heist is the external problem and Cob’s guilt is the internal problem
Yes yes yes! Exactly
inception suck, barely mediocre movie. only original think would be incepting dreams, but it actually is not, cause they stole it from Paprika.
@@McGradyKalcho What is your favourite Anime?
I always get hyped whenever a new Tyler Mowery video pops up
Glad to hear it!
Same.
Ah crap! What if my moral is "Things are always more complicated than we expect them to be!" ?
Guess the writing process was more complex than you expected ;p
Gues then The hero might assume something and make plans according to his beleifs that World/Life is easy but at last he fails and someone or himself makes him realize your moral.
Then you make sure your story focuses on that idea and not 5 other ideas. That’s still one central idea.
Stories can still tackle different angles of a complex idea. I love doing that in my screenplays. But it's still just one idea being tackled
@@TylerMowery I was kidding with that question but yeh I still need to cut the many edges in my story's themes.
A film I see a lot of my screenwriting friends tackle in complexity is ‘Inception’ (first film to come to mind even before you mentioned it) and I’ve found that more harmful than beneficial to their works. People seemingly understand ‘Inception’ with having multiple central ideas, but at the same time Nolan spent a decade working on the story/script. A film I personally faltered with when I got into screenwriting was ‘The Tree of Life’ and ever since I’ve spent close to a decade having to reteach myself about the balance between literalism and allegory.
Yeah, exactly, as soon as I saw your comment, first thing I thought was “yeah, but he spent ten years getting it ready and analyzing it, he didn’t do it in a week and went to shoot it.
ok unpopular opinion but honestly inception's writing is shit, the dialogue is almost always exposition, nolan likes telling over showing, and it feels really clunky. same thing with memento too, the characters are all exposition. obviously the plot is complex and confusing but nolan really goes overboard. if i were to watch it chronologically i would probably just walk out of the theater, lol
aah I found inception to be extremely easy to understand but the reason for all the exposition is because Christopher Nolan said in an interview that he was worried that if he use subtext and rely on visuals, the audience won’t understand his movies since his movies are made for the everyday general audience.
@@YoBaMo1 i think nolan should have more faith in the intelligence of his everyday general audience
aah His Executive don’t think that. I mean when the Matrix was made the executive didn’t have no idea what the movie is about even though it’s easy to understand.
Just realised that this was the problem with JK Rowing’s Fantastic Beasts script- there were way too many concepts and ideas going on in that film! It makes sense because Rowling put loads of stuff into her books and it worked but i in a movie u hav to be more focused. Fantastic video!
Maybe you can do a video how these complicated, multi-themed scripts do it in a clear and artistic way, such that it feels right. Because I'm sure there are many scripts out there with multiple themes with several central ideas as well
It's an easier conversation if you can give us as an example of a great script with multiple themes.
Tyler gives all the gems unfiltered and learned more in one video than I did in 4 years in film school...
Thanks for your kind words!
Hi Tyler.
Just wanna say I'm glad I found your channel. Your advice has an unapologetic tone to it, just something I don't get very often in film school. I'm not naming any names but certain mentors have this "I'm right, you're wrong, shut up" attitude I find irritating. I don't feel that way with you.
Please keep doing what you do.
Thanks for your kind words!
He is a smart young guy in love with movies and writing. You are inspiring.
even I'm not a scriptwriter or something I'm just a simple writer who wants to write my first book but your videos really resonates with me thank you so much love it !
"When a story comes out and nobody understands it and finds it confusing and weird,
a lot of people try to assign meaning to it that it doesn't have to make it seem interesting.
They say it did these seven things that was so intelligent, but in reality it just wasn't."
That's exactly how I felt about BvS, The Last Jedi, and Cloud Atlas.
I love the authenticity in your videos. No jump cuts or hyper editing. This is what you have to say unfiltered. Keep it up man
Never before have my thoughts on arthouse films been summed up so neatly. If your film is vaguely artistic but confusing, it's not deep - that's just bad storytelling.
I think movies that get complex ideas across while still engaging and entertaining the audience are far superior
Definitely agree
Gui Caldo Are there any arthouse films that succeed at being entertaining? When I first heard that phrase I thought “oh god those movies are probably boring and pretentious”
@@dally1398 There are three that I can think of: Joker, Pan's Labyrinth and Snowpiercer. The former is more controversial, but I've met very few people that didn't adore Snowpiercer.
It's a Korean action film that succeeds at being a simple, dumb action movie with a strong protagonist, a clear goal, forward momentum, and tight pacing. But beneath all of that there's so much more to unpack. Not only is the protagonist an excellent character with a strong emotional journey and a powerful choice at the end, the film also makes an in-depth commentary about class. At surface level it seems to be saying "rich bad, poor good", but if you dive further in there are more and more layers to unpack.
Pan's Labyrinth is slower-paced, but talks about the nature of escapism and gives a fascinating insight into the mind of a child while going through real world traumas it doesn't comprehend.
Basically, these movies take their messages and deep themes and tie them into the story and characters. So they're essentially normal, compelling movies but where every single tiny element contributes towards the message they're getting across.
Tl;dr: There are incredibly entertaining and engaging arthouse movies out there, they're just few and far between.
This video is the biggest IKR, that’s what annoys me most about video essay culture hands down.
Inception is actually simple because its core idea is in the title. Its about the literal inception of ideas and the good or bad they create as a result. And this is built into the narrative by having Cobb incept a Good Family Revelation into a person to get his kids back, but also has to overcome the Bad Family Revelation as to why he lost his kids in the first place. And all other characters are the storytelling studio there to help or hinder this.
(Though this is a very good video, i should make that clear.)
When I started writing screenplays, I was too focused on the excitement rather than the actual story structure. I learned from the experience, and now I have 3 other scripts that Ibam working on.
THANK YOU for saying this. I can't tell you how long it has taken me to learn that complex (confusing) scripts don't equal 'good' scripts. And then once having written something confusing getting film friends (who most certainly didn't understand what they read) say they think it's doing something deep and profound, as opposed to when a script I write is clearly saying something specific getting criticized by the same person for reasons of them just not personally agreeing with what was being said. Getting out of that nebulous mindset and understanding the difference between useful and harmful feedback, AND learning to be bold enough to take a stance on the philosophical premise has been 90% of my own writing journey.
Great video. I think I understand now what Werner Herzog meant in his masterclass, when he recommended this book, the peregrine and said it was great because it could focus so deeply on one thing.
I 100% agree Tyler, I recently experience this with my latest script, its a Outback Aussie Thriller with one theme: Mans obsession with money and the need for financial security. It was the more basic story I’ve done so far but yet this script is the best feedback I’ve ever gotten from multiple script coverage service and this video has just nailed that point home for me. Thanks bro.✌️
DOUBT is another great example of a simple theme/idea in a feature-length film. While it does explore Catholicism in a Northeastern American town in the mid-twentieth century, motherhood, sexuality, and abuse--multiple and specific ideas--the main question each character faces is doubt. Meryl Streep's last line always gets me. And the theme is in the title!
so true. I finally managed to simplify my story and I've found having a straight backbone it frees the whole flow.
That's the topic i needed to see right now. I started outlining a script that surrounds only one idea(actually is two ideas that work in the same way to fill all the philosophy of the story) and i'm struggling with not adding too much because the dialogue gets too exposed often. It's really good to see a video like that, that motivates me to work and explore more all this brainstorm that i'm having. Thanks a lot Tyler.
Glad it was helpful!
your channel appeared in my feed and I must say you are very well spoken for someone so young. I am maybe halfway through absorbing the content from film courage while honing my craft and as I continue to watch your channel, I suspect that you are going to throw out some valuable bones that the speakers on film courage can't or won't. thank you for helping all us noob writers. now ima go camp some QBD and stock up on some dragon bones.
Tyler, you are a brilliant young mind, and your channel has helped me come out of my rut with my own creativity with my stories. You have a knack for saying things that I have felt were off, but have never found the right words to say. You earned a Sub and a fan. Great work!
What an awesome video. I’m using your videos about script writing and applying them to solve my personal life problems and it’s really helping. Keep up the great work! :)
I'm an inexperienced writer but writing a story allows me to create new world where anything is a possibility. It allows me to reflect on my inner most thoughts that I wasn't aware. I wish to continue this journey and someday earn a living through writing. Thank you so much for all the value you provide in this community and hope for more success to come.
i am an upcoming filmmaker , learnt alot from this channel already.
Nice videos. Just discovered your channel last month, and as a creative writing teacher, it has helped me a lot. There isn't this much material and critical apparatus in spanish, so it is a most welcome addition to my toolset.
Glad you enjoy the videos!
Really liked this video and the message. Was a bit of a deviation from your usual vids, but was refreshing in that it felt like I was listening to a friend in a living room getting passionate about a perspective
Never try to convey your idea to the audience - it is a thankless and senseless task. Show them life, and they’ll find within themselves the means to assess and appreciate it.
- Andrei Tarkovsky
Huh... Maybe so...
Some great insights here, Tyler. Simplicity is often frowned upon but I've seen countless stories that fell flat simply because they strived to be too complex. A lot of films that are produced in my country are open-ended and everyone acts as if that makes them complex. But the reality is that they just don't know how to finish it. I have theories on why that is but that's for another topic.
I'm a fiction (book) writer but many have told me I have a very screenwriter style and should try writing screenplays. It's a possiblity but not right now.
When I was younger, I used to talk to other amateur writers, trying to get them to talk about the story's structure. Didn't get a lot of response from that and had to learn a lot of things by myself. You distill it very nicely what took me a long time to figure out. Now I'm 35+ and young writers come to me for advice. I usually tell them: ask yourself who your characters are, what they're after and alway finish your story. You can't absorb the experience of writing a story unless you finish it.
Hi! Great insights. Can you please give me some examples of stories that have fallen apart because they strive to be too complex?
Im glad you made a video about this topic.
I think I was falling into the trap of trying to make sure my story has all theses themes that people will discover when that shouldn't be the point. I love watching video essays on TH-cam they give motivation to think about my stories. It good to see my people pick out different topics from movies and break them down. However I started realizing that most of these video are toxic to beginners like me because they try to influence us to make stories that cover all sort of complex situations. I don't think Jordan Peele, Ari Aster or Bong Joon- Ho knew about all these ideas when they made their movies.They all focused on the main theme of the story and used symbols to support it. I don't think they are concerned about all theses other deep theories and themes, that just comes as a accomplishment when your story connects with an audience like you stated in 6:51- 7:23
Thank you for the video
Tyler your videos are being a great help for me. I'm in my way from visual arts and video art to film and screenwriting. This specially is one of those problems that I have, complexity of the story. As I came from visual arts I use to think on image before thinking on story or conflict. So I had this problem many times. I am learning how to simplify with out affecting the ideas I want to express. This has been a hard work till now, but i keep strugling. Thanks for your time and your ideas...
I strongly agree. Three months into outlining my story I drove myself absolutely bonkers not having a clear idea what the message of my fondly written story might be. Then I tried to lay them out in writing, going through each of my character arcs and I ended up with something very similar to one of your slides with all sorts of arbitrary states of minds like, Ambition, Arrogance, Expectations, Disappointment, Depression, Contemplation, Atonement, Humility, and the list went on and on. After condensing everything down to one simple subject, in my instance, Societal Norms - What could be sustained & what could be done without, I not only found the THEME of my story but it came with it an Ambiguity that I have always wanted to incorporate in my story.
Essentially, if you deeply explore one idea thoroughly, it has a magic way of invoking everything. In other words, in order to achieve the universal, aim for the specific.
The movie I’m currently writing explores a massive, cosmic story, bouncing between parallel universes. BUT I’m using that massive, cosmic world be the backdrop to the actual story, which is nothing more than a mystery. Hopefully I won’t over complicate the story in the vein of fleshing out the world.
Outstanding, my young friend! It's exactly like that MASH episode where they told Radar to respond to that nurse who was supposedly an "intellectual" with, "Ahhhhh, Bach." to which she rightfully responded, "What exactly do you mean, 'Ahhhh, Bach'?" Thanks so much for driving home the important point that a muddled mess does not equal a good story. I also love your point that a movie is much more a short story than a novel. I'm working on a screenplay right now whose central question is, "Is it even possible to achieve a fear-free life, and should one even try, or does fear actually help us be better and even happier human beings?" That's it! This one story is going to tackle that one idea. Now, I hope I will tackle it deeply and meaningfully, but, hey, I'm new at this, so I'm going to strive for finishing the damn thing and being proud of that. Thanks again. Great video essay.
hi tyler, you're so great in what you're doing and you've been very helpful to me when i wrote my first scripts for school projects (i'm in 12th grade and been using your videos for like two years by now) and sure i'll keep watching you for a while (there's not much of good cinema classes in Israeli high schools)
i was wondering if you could help us out and give a good example of a movie with a bunch of concepts and ideas, especially like an overrated film or so that got praises for the big ammount of those ideas. it would really help to compare that with whiplash or something else.
thanks and please don't stop uploading these great videos! (i'm subscribed to a big list of cinema and movie production channels but non of them talk enough script and story like you do so you're really one of a kind)
Literally the thing I'm dealing with right now.
Thank you, Tyler. :)
The best channel for learning about screenwriting.
This video and it deserves wayyy more attention. This might as well be a MasterClass lol
My first script was this terrible short that tried to be about power, religion, the human experience, and so much more. It was 14 minutes. This video helped a lot in narrowing down a script, and putting my complex one on a shelf.
People see what they want to see, and some are easily distracted by their own opinion of what’s happening that they miss what is actually happening. I think you can have more than one theme in a story, with side plots, but they must compliment the main story and theme. That’s the meat and potatoes, the rest is gravy.
I'm currently writing a concept album using script writing techniques and this helped me to finally find the one thing that it's about. Thanks!
This is so true. I had this problem. I think simplicity is the goal.
As soon as you started talking about this I was like "Inception", and then I saw you put it up. 😂 Great info!
Very smart. Simplicity of focus. Thank you for clarifying.
As a musician, I don’t actually consider Whiplash a good movie - and despite not being a Jazz musician myself, I agree with Jazz musician Adam Neely on most of his points against the accuracy of the depiction of events here. Whiplash could have been about an aspiring olympic athlete, and it would have been the same story. It takes music as a setting, and then turns the personal vanity that’s already rampant in shows like Glee and takes it to 11. I know why I love music, but I never really understood why the protagonist of Whiplash (forgot his name already) likes music. It only seems to be a tool for him to improve his personal status - but in whose eyes? Pretty much only in those of his tyrannical teacher.
He doesn’t make music to impress girls or something, like in most other “teenage band” movies. That is actually something I like, the acknowledgement that passionate musicians make music for the sake of it, not as a form of courting behaviour. However, the movie utterly fails to depict the reason for the protagonists passion for music. It’s like a cynical, twisted version of Albert Hammond’s song “The Free Electric Band”, where the singer happily dumps his girlfriend to keep *enjoying* life with this band. And in contrast to a music student, like in Whiplash, he actually drops out of college for that, too.
Thanks for making these videos! it helps me a lot. I make a script for my short film: "On the way to nothing". So really thank you!
This is such a life changing video for me. Thank you so much!
So true... Finally catching up with your channel... Hopefully you'll get a little or a lot deeper in your advanced writing programs - looking into the psychology behind story.
Budding filmmaker here. Still in high school, currently working on my first ever film. It is one day my dream to work with you, you are a huge inspiration to me, thank you for doing what you're doing!
Thank you once again. I was just thinking about this.
This is just the video I happened to need with the short film I'm working on right now.
Thanks for this. It was very interesting.
I have often wanted to simplify, but didn't know how. Now that I have watched several of your videos, I am very optimistic about it.
One of my favorite videos, way to go Tyler! I find it absurd when no one talk about this when they talk about screenwriting. To me, this is, actually, one of the most important things, even before you start writing. It took me a loooot of time to figure out that you CAN´T start a screenplay if you don´t know the central theme or idea. To me, that´s the first question you should ask yourself before sit and wander around pages for months: What's this story about? Which one is the main theme? Let´s take a look on some other examples: Three Billboards Outside Ebbings Missouri isn´t about a mother trying to deal with police and justice, is a story about RAGE and how to handle it, even all characters move around that idea. Onward is about BROTHERHOOD, not about magicians and fantasy. Her is about LONELINESS not about the future of the OS. Jumanji (2017) is about GROWING UP, and Jumanji (2019) is about FRIENDSHIP, they´re not about a bunch of guys running on a jungle. Once you know your main theme, it will be easier to start writing, but if you´ve been writing for months and don´t know where the problem is, usually you´ll find it on the lack of main theme or lack of premise. Source: A loooot of workshops I´ve been attending for several years and a loooot of writers struggling with this problem (myself included for a loooot of time)... Once again, congratulations on your video and your channel! Greetings from México!
Thanks a lot Tyler, you touched upon a few important points here that I had to hear.
Incredible! You actually put that into words.
I am always simple and consice.
4:30 someone plz write this book
And send me a copy!
It practically writes itself
That's just a book about culture, right?
At first, I thought he started with "poverty" and went straight to cooking, so it was even funnier!
that same trend happens in many philosopher's books or articles. There is even an app that produces ridiculous paragraphs that mimic this type of writing.
Altough I don't think Im ambiguous, I have deep problems on simpliflying.
I think this is a great piece of advice, that works very well for short stories as well. :)
I am not a new writer considering I have written four/five scripts this year but didn't attend film school. I hope to later but I have confidence in my writing considering all I have learnt online for some time now and from screenwritingU. Regardless, I keep learning which is why I wish Tyler gave a clearer picture of his explanation.
I have written three to four ideas on one script and I know how to bring my points together at the close or at any given act. Having my audience thoughts in mind, I deliver very clearly. Tyler saying... don't do that, I wish he depicted his explanation with practical examples for proper assimilation.
To be honest, I still enjoy some art-house films, even if sometimes they tend to get a little bit confusing. IMO they try to challenge the medium, not only by putting all their eggs in one basket - but also stretching the limits in visual, sound, etc. I'd admit that I'd prefer a "normal" film over art at anytime, but sometimes I want that crazy, weird, experimental stuff. In a sense... it helps me focus :)
But I don't write scripts so I don't count.
Love your videos, tyler. They both keep me grounded and tell me to get my crap together. 😂
I needed this video! I agree with what you are saying! However, I believe that it is fine to use different ideas as long as they pertain to the main message. But I do agree that new writers need to stay simple, it makes it more enjoyable and you learn more. The more you learn the rules and how stories work, the more you can experiment. But learn the RULES!
I would agree for the most part, but I feel that you are able to have stories that can be interpreted in multiple ways. I feel like having the idea always been set and fixed to tell an audience a story would negate the idea of leaving things ambiguously, (which is completely optional) but for regular movies with set ideas, I would agree.
Thanks for this man, super helpful
I'm writing my script lately and I'm in Sequence 50 now going full blown writers blocked. I didn't thought this video would pop up directly in recommendations. Thank you very much!
I'm planning to write a suspense thriller. Any suggestions?
Honestly though, that book idea sounds like something I would write
Could be fun! Dive in and let me know how you bring it together
I'd agree to this, I noticed it myself , but then the next question is how do we prioritise the ideas and decide which idea we have to first work on.
Yesssss great opinion. Been irked about this for awhile.
Could you make a video on the rewriting process for short films/ feature films ?
Inception is one of my favourite movies, and I agree you shouldn’t try to write something like this as a first story. However, not because it’s too complex - but because it’s a plot-driven story, rather than a character-driven one. It took a long time until I even got the protagonist’s name correctly. It’s much harder to write a “Heist” type of story and make it interesting, because that entirely rests on how interesting the plot itself is. Even the Inception writers themselves couldn’t quite replicate it with “Tenet”. If anyone doubts that the focus is not on characters here, just remember that in Tenet, the protagonist is actually indeed just named “protagonist” ;) .
thanks for the tip, really helps
"If I've ever had a theme in mind thats just the worst, then you feel yourself writing and there's nothing worse than that feeling like your chasing after a theme. That's writing at its worst for me. The best things kind of become something and your happy it's there."
---- Paul Thomas Anderson
“Never try to convey your idea to the audience - it is a thankless and senseless task. Show them life, and they’ll find within themselves the means to assess and appreciate it.”
― Andrei Tarkovsky
these perspectives seem to be more helpful, as in film makers are kinda incapable of conveying meaning in film but an audience is equally incapable of veiwing a film without some lens of meaningfullness.
Love all your vids as they're very informative and helpful! Very simple and easy to understand but still complex. I think it would be really cool if you made a vid about how to write superhero fight scenes. Or like you can use examples of previous fight scenes from the Raimi Spider-Man Trilogy or something like that.
Brilliant, just brilliant.
Lifesaver, my dude.
Thanks, it really helped.
Man we agree on a ton of stuff. Love the videos 😀
good video. the only story i know to juggle a bunch of themes really well is watchmen, but even then, the core is still clearly putting the idea of superheroes in the real world. and also, that was written by a very experienced writer. beginners should slow down, learn and practice first before they try things like this
Bro Is literaly the goat
2nd watch! Always helpful Tyler!
Great philosophy, very helpful!
Amazing! Thanks.
That part was funny, when the reader don't understand the new writer's script and gives wrong feedback, and eventually they both learns nothing 😂😂
THANK YOU SO MUCH
God bless you and thank you for your tutorials
Hello Tyler, I love your videos, thank you very much for clarifying the ideas. George Lucas said "it's about good and evil, what makes a hero, friendship, what is the idea of sacrificing oneself for something greater?" I think I got confused there
In the words of the great jazz pianist Thelonious Monk:
“Simple ain’t easy!”
Very clarifying :)
The laugh in the middle
With the irony😂😂
nice ur ma favorite teacher
I see a lot of what you talking on the tv show "Dark" and the movie "Joker", when things don't make sense, so "wow, that must be smart"
Phenomenal video mister
As I am writing this, there are no views! How interesting. 🤔
lmao why is Tyler always so vague yet somehow super specific in everything he talks about