It’s Been 2 Years, Yet Elden Ring’s Community Is Still Debating What The Game Is Even about.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Elden Ring has been out for over two years, yet there are still countless Elden Ring retrospectives debating the meaning of Elden Ring’s lore and trying to figure out Elden Ring’s story and Elden Ring’s ending.
As I see it Elden Ring is a huge metaphor, using taoist symbolism to ask whether we as society want to return to a god-driven dogmatic essentialist world or want to live with the existential dread that is the logical result of Nietzsche's death of god. The dialectic monism of Radagon and Marika is symbolic of humanity's will to change and the different endings of Elden Ring show different paths for humanity to resolve the tension between nihilism and dogmatism.
And if nothing I just said makes any sense to you, don’t worry, that is why this Elden Ring retrospective is as long as it is.
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====== Timestamps
00:00:00 - Intro
00:03:05 - The Elden Ring (Philosophical Background)
00:16:27 -Pairs Of Parents (Lore)
00:24:46 - The Lands Between (Game & Gameplay)
00:33:18 - The Death Of Death (Thematic Motifs)
00:58:10 - A Path For Humanity (Endings Discussion)
====== Credits for the Music
Elden Ring OST - “The Final Battle”, “Elden Ring”
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time OST - “Gerudo Valley”
Special Thanks to the British Council Film archive for providing remixable historic footage.
film.britishcouncil.org/resou...
Additionally the video uses licensed music from productioncrate.com and motionarray.com - เกม
"You know, when society decided to make child labor illegal we took the rune of child labor out of the metaphorical Elden Ring"
This implies that we as a society can create a mending rune of child labor
@@blargghkipbut how 🤔
@@apolloisnotashirtIndustrialisation and extreme cost-cutting
@@asmagamer728 wrong! Brainwashing!
Wait until you hear about the child labour laws being rolled back in conservative states in the US lmao mending the rune of child labour is already real @@blargghkip
"Don't worry, that's not the actual final bossfight yet, that's-oh wait no it's the actual final bossfight"
Hysterical
An hour and a half into discussing the game, Ceave says "yeah I like the game."
Never change, Ceave
The Elden Beast's sword is also LITERALLY Radagon's corpse. Look closer at the hilt.
I believe he’s also doing the inner or outer pose as well on the hilt. You can barley tell.
Ceave Gaming: With this, Mario is able to make the jump. Hooray!
Ceave Perspective: And, so, we are able to understand the duality of religion and nihilism; death and rebirth. Hooray!
🚨 BANGER ALERT 🚨
Ceave has dropped a feature length video on Elden Ring! This is not a drill!
I have trained long and hard for this moment!
Bro the fact that you said banger means it aint
Ceave Perspective is honestly one of the only TH-camrs I have bell notifications on and it's so worth it
Literally just found this channel. HOW DID NO ONE TELL ME???
That makes two of us.
The crazy thing is every TH-camr has this same comment under one or more of his videos
after probably several hundreds of hours of playing and watching elden ring videos this is somehow the first time ive Ever heard anyone bring up the idea that melina in the frenzy ending is merged w ranni in some sense, which is actually really interesting to think about given their connections dang
It’s definitely been pointed out before, but yeah it is definitely interesting
@@extrathicc78where and when was it theorized?
@@apolloisnotashirt just search Ranni and Melina, you’ll find a few. Including a video called “Ranni is Melina” which is pretty popular from two years ago
@@apolloisnotashirt it won’t let me respond for some reason when I give specifics idk lol, there’s a video from 2 years ago about it just search for it
@@apolloisnotashirt no idea why but TH-cam won’t let me reply lol sorry man I’m sure you can figure out where they are
The Age of The Duskborne Explained:
Marika ruled over the Lands between when she withdrawned destined death, After she won Every War. So there is no Wars, There is no Change. With the Golden Order established It can be read as The Current Idea of the World and Order will never die. This is seen as Spirits roam the Lands Between and are lead to the Erdtree to be reborn into the same order as the same person they were. Death does not exists if you are yourself after death and if the world stays the same.
When the Mending Rune of Death (Godwyn) is added to Order, they break this idea of constancy. Order will change. The Dead will have a future chosen by themselves. Death is a part of Life and Change is the only constant. Like this, Godwyn witch is soulless can live as a new Body and a New Person. Those that rejected Death and Reincarnation can move foward without needing to start anew. They can have a new start with the experiences they gained and face change however they see fit as long as they to not die.
Wouldn't even need this ending if mohg just let miquella do his job.
@@reign1594 You, have a great point.
Algorithm boost
Algorithm Boost 😎
Bro I can’t believe they would say that
Wow that is best video must share and engage wow
Also investment finance crypto for ad revenue
Algorithm boost
Algo boost 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
algorithm boost 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
It’s honestly crazy how quickly he can put out those 1,5h masterpieces
Excoose me who is you beach
I was literally JUST thinking "I wonder when the next Ceave Perspective upload will be? I'm itching to watch it". Then my notification popped up a couple seconds later
1) The Greater Will isn't an Outer God. In the original Japanese translation of the text, the term Outer God refers to those gods as being outside of the Golden Order; circumstantial evidence makes it pretty clear that the Greater Will (if it even exists) is very different from the Outer Gods, both substantially and on a power level scale.
2) The ring Melina picks up from the ground in the Frenzied Flame ending is actually Torrent's whistle.
That being said, the video is phenomenal, just like all the rest of your work. Keep up the good work, mate, you deserve all the credit you're getting for it!
While term of Outer God might not be right term to use for the Greater Will, we have plenty of evidence that not only the Greater Will exists (Hyetta, The Elden Beast itself, etc) but that other “Outer” gods function similar to it. Especially sending Envoys of the wills ( Twin bird’s Outer god and Death birds) with the Fingers and the Elden Beast. Not to mention the connection with Empyreans and needing a physical vassal for their Order ei Marika ( Malenia with the Rot god, Miquella with the Formless mother, Ranni, etc).
Whatever the Greater Will should be called, it’s pretty obvious it’s very similar to the other Outers Gods. Calling it God would be the more appropriate way to describe it as it is THE god as of now, however due to how Marika is also referred to as god. The Greater Will very much like the Outer Gods would like to know evidence you have to make this claim.
By that definition the only thing that differentiates the Greater Will from other Outer Gods is the labels it's devote followers gave to it. No different from saying the Christan God is different from all other gods because Christianity says it's different.
@@Rusty_Spycompletely wrong.
Outer Gods represent forces of nature that the Elden Ring can easily seal and keep into a Rune, like - most importantly - Death.
Clearly the ER has no chance of tinkering with the GW as the GW is its creator. Heck, one Outer God even gets sealed into a lake by... a visually impaired swordsman. Good luck trying to seal a demiurgic entity that operates from lightyears of distance.
There's a massive difference in scale at work here.
The christian conception of God IS actually different. Read the church fathers
@@Rusty_SpyOuter Gods are embodied ideologies. The Greater Will is Natural Law, or the Monotheistic God, or Nature Itself.
Ranni's ending is a massive double-edged sword, obfuscating reality so nobody can be certain just means everyone will draw whatever conclusions they want and go to war still.
She's a cosmic midwit and a pawn of Miquella, Miquella who is literally trying to go one step further than Ranni and *destroy reality itself* by finding the Sun and snuffing it out.
I am really looking forward to watching this (no time right now, so algo-boosting comment for now), but I'd like to say one thing.
I find the old title format better. Having a copy-and-pasted title like this is much less memorable than "Bloodborne, Pregnancy, Nietzche, and God", or "Outer Wilds - An Existentialist Masterpiece". I remember the first time I saw "Super Mario Wonder - The Second Best Platformer Ever Made", where the title alone was so catchy I talked to friends about it.
(Note that the title doesn't take away from the sheer quality of the videos, which I still avidly watch.)
@@JoseViktor4099 He was talking about the video title, not Elden Ring
@@ClassicPopble Oh sorry.
@@ClassicPopble *she, but yes.
I prefer the more poetic/abstract titles as well, but these kind of titles do better with the youtube algorithm. And if the titles get sacrificed to the algorithm but the content stays excellent, I don't mind the less interesting algorithmic titles
@@nautil_us Do they really? That's surprising.
Oh thank god.
Makes me feel less stupid for not knowing.
Let you know. 90% of Elden Ring fans actually aren't sure what the Elden Ring is.
No one really knows, and we assume more well-spoken people do. Elden Ring's lore works as commentary on our own efforts to reconcile our need for meaning with the natural world and the established lore we have around real world religions
Fromsoft sucks at storytelling. Its not your fault for not understanding it.
@@kitno6415 0/10
@@ThommyofThenn you could say i dissagre instead of whatever the fuck that rating means
fwiw the actual philosophy of nihilism, as expressed by someone like camus, is somewhat close to the description of the age of the moon- not a world devoid of meaning, but one in which meaning must come from within, and be created by one's will and one's own actions. meaning that is not a prison but a home, a city, a construct
The idea of meaning coming from within? Isn't that just Jean paul Sartre's model of existentialism? Where due to the "god-shaped" hole in our hearts, yet the alleged absence of a God, people must create their own meaning day by day? It also seems a bit similar to Nietzche as well. Although he believed the human needed to overcome something and obtain a sense of total dominance and independence as the "meaning", if one chooses to interpret it that way.
@@thesnatcher3616 sartre and camus have a lot of overlap in that respect, yeah. i mean they were roughly contemporaries and both reacting in large part to the humiliation and horror of the nazi occupation of france, and also to france's ongoing occupation of algeria
@@thomasstone3480 Makes sense. I feel like current history classes underemphasize the sheer impact WWII had on our contemporary culture, whether it may be pop, ideaological, and societal. It wasn't just six million Jews that were killed. The rest of the Jewish community and the rest of the western world were left with scars that still exist today. And the moral panic of the Cold War just made things worse. Not to mention, Nazis sort of became the new "devils" in our day to day language. Everytime someone does something that on person doesn't like, or defends an idealogy that they disagree with, they either call them "Nazis 2.0" or "Orwellian"(something to do with 1984). Instead of our pop culture heroes fighting demons and devils(or some other equivalent), we(at least in America) fight Nazis and gun them down en masse. Just watch movies like Indiana Jones. It's so weird to think of a world where NONE of this really exists.
But as for thoughts on Sartre myself, I am inclinded to disagree with it rather strongly, partially due to my preference for St. Aquinas' "Natural Law"(something Ceave forgot to mention!!! CS Lewis did not come up with!) where a God DOES exist, but also due to how while Sartre's theory sounds nice on paper, it doesn't really do much for a person who's inherent moral character can be described as "less then socially acceptable". Sartre himself, along with his pseudo wife, allegedly molested a large number of his students, with his wife's help. And I very much doubt his ideals in this matter really did much to hinder him. There was a whole memoir released from one of his victims I think. Existencialism sounds nice, but it doesn't lend itself to create a form of discipline and order that the individual may not already possess. It assumes that humans will always make the right choice I feel. Maybe I'm misinterpreting though. But the idea of creating new meaning can easily be abused and doesn't create a situation where an indvidual can be called out on. But I guess Natural Law can be the same as people, even in the Christian worldview, constantly disobey it and don't care about ramifications of said disobedience. Not to mention it might get a little too close to a form of "utilitarianism" if it's enforced. Idk though. I'm still young and I'm still learning.
@@thesnatcher3616 ultimately i think if you judge a philosophy by the worst actions of its adherents, none of them come out well- for me, i find the idea of an external and absolute morality uncompelling, and that the politics of most of the people i find most harmful in the world are informed by at least a claimed belief in some absolute external standard that allows them to enforce their ideal of a rigid and 'natural' status quo upon the most vulnerable.
obviously, you are correct that there's nothing intrinsic about existentialism or nihilism that means the self-derived morality of it can't be grievously wrong, but within myself at least i think i can argue from first principles why i think x or y is moral based on what i see and think and feel and not external dogma that feels frequently inconsistent with decency and humanity
@thomasstone3480 I see. Although, going by that logic, no form of any law can be posited as it may infringe upon the individual as it all depends on how one defines an absolute standard. Absolute standard in the context of law? man? indivdual? Or God? On the topic of God, again, there are differing views on his role in terms of morality. Will he lead us to the correct morality? Is their a natural conciouness? What is natural and what isn't? Not to mention, you're assuming that you have no subconscious external dogma of your own that may either supplement or poison some of your judgments. How much of external dogma is in reality, subconous dogma? If anything, the idea and value of an individual can be seen as an absolute "value." In fact, by what standard is "being harmful" to the world "harmful" at all? Surely, there is some benefit being gained by those in power who seek to suppress the marginalized. Obviously, both you and I will say this is wrong. Why do we say so? Because people are suffering? Because of empathy? But who is to say we should be governed by empathy at all? What about people who feel no such thing? Or negotiate said empathy away for some other dogma? I feel like for so many people, it really is just one dogma vs. another Dogmas vs. Dogmas. Ideas vs ideas. Morals vs. Morals. My point is that no one can truly live without imposing some form of standard upon either themselves or others. Everyone is informed by some kind of external dogma. Have you ever asked yourself why you think that decency and humanity even matter? Perhaps it may just "feel right." A lot of other things may feel right for some people, yet we condemn them. And you wouldn't do everything that felt right either for the "good of humanity." But why do you even consider the good of humanity to inform a "moral" action? Perhaps enforcing said oppresive policies that undermine decency and humanity felt right to them? Not to mention, are you not going against your initial claim of categorizing the worst actions of an adherent to an ideaology to check it's validity being a bad methodology(which I would agree with), yet you condemn those who hold the ideaology who hold an external standard that is to be enforced or coerced(physically, rationally, etc.) as also being heinous, and use that to form your opinion on it. But you have granted that it is for you and you alone.
And in case you're wondering, yes, I caught your subtext. I know exactly what you are referring to. Especially in the midst of our country's political jungle. Odd since you brought it up, as I mentioned Thomas Aquinas. But I will not put words into your mouth. I am not really debating. I probably can't debate you and win. I am still young and learning. I'm just spitballing and holding ideas up to scrutiny.
I really appreciate the way Ceave talks about philosophy! It's a great balance between "this is a thing some people believe" and "this is not necessarily true but not necessarily false either" and "This Story is (most likely) based on this philosophy, so in the context of this story this philosophy is completely true". Its a much more understandable way (for me) to understand how different philosophies work and how they apply to real life, because you can compare a fictional world to our own and think on where they differ and where they are the same!
that's a great way to phrase it! i've never been able to put a finger on why i like how ceave phrases things, only that i do, but i think this really sums it up nicely. he's very able to explain things both within and outside of the context of the game he's analyzing, and as a result it only ever comes off like the game has a bias, but not ceave himself. sometimes he does get very excited about certain ideas, but even then i get the sense it's more about "isn't this concept so cool" or "doesn't the game do a great job of thematically weaving this in?" rather than him agreeing with them.
This video did more for my understanding of Elden ring than probably a 100 hrs of Vaati and Smoughtown. Amazingly well done, sir .
great point me as well cus he linked the real life inspiration of grrm nd the artistic translation of miyazaki
Excellent video! This was a great literary analysis of Elden Ring. Thanks for taking the time to put in the philosophical research. I don't really have much to add other than you did a great job and this was a very enjoyable and informative video.
"Without order nothing can exist-without chaos nothing can evolve. Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” - Oscar Wilde
Yay you watched it!!! Sorry I was so enthusiastic about it yesterday. I was a bit tipsy and I’m a very happy drunk 🤣😂👏👏👏
I just realised how badly I want to hear you talk about Marika. When are you going to talk about Marika?
The SandKings bit was my favourite! It’s the part that made me feel like you had to know about this video lol. But all the Nietzsche stuff and, ugh, just everything else. What a great video this was. I can’t wait for Miquella’s master plan!!!
WHY DOES CEAVE ALWAYS PUT OUT VIDEOS ABOUT GAMES IM IN THE MIDDLE OF PLAYNIG?! I’ve been playing Majoras Mask on and off for 6 months with that video lonely sitting in my watch later for all that time! Elden Ring was my most wanted to play game for foreeeevvvveeer, and I finally got a PC, about 40 hours in and just beat Morgott, and now I have a great reason to speed it the heck up! Love your vids!
Dont rush it! It is a wonderful game, and you should try to explore as much as you can. This video wont go anywhere, and im sure all elden ring fans agree that the first playthrough is something truely special!
@@lightningfox0654 Don’t plan on rushing it, I look at myself in the mirror every morning and ask myself “Am I going to quickly, do I know how sad Ill be when its all over?” It’s such a surreal experience and I try to take my time to explore each area. I love it dude, you’re 100% right, ima take it slow. Thanks for the hype advice! Also Draconic tree sentinel is a bs boss fight and Greyoll doesn’t deserve to die for 2 levels aint nobody changing my mind there.
boost
Really fantastic video, you managed to actually express a thematic meaning of Elden Ring that genuinely sounds intentional and embedded in the game rather than just a stretched personal interpretation, and it's the first time I've seen it.
He also incorporated GRRM influences to really hit things home. Once he revealed the book he was talking about was GRRM, I was fully lock in. Very few talks about GRRM’s influences which is infuriating especially Miyazaki being a self proclaimed fan but instead just make Berserk connect whether it makes any sense or not.
Don’t listen to that guy about the title, I wouldn’t have clicked on any of those titles and I didn’t but this drew me in for the perspective on the games lore and grew to a wonderful synthesis on the reflection of the real world in Elden ring
I am always amazed at how you are able to discuss complicated and sensitive topics in a respectful and engaging manner. Absolutely loved this video, and it makes me want to play through Elden Ring again so I can solidify some thoughts on where I agree and disagree with you. I think your interpretation of the overall theme is my favorite, very nice work.
As someone who loves learning new things and has watched almost of all lore videos of Elden Ring, I am impresses that I have found something that has profoundly given me a better understanding of a game I felt I wouldn't learn much more from until the dlc. Subbed. I can't explain easily how much this made Elden Ring make more sense on a deeper level for me. Thank you
"And I never complained about the game repeating boss fights" - That made me laugh, seriously.
Thanks for this review Ceave, it was a pleasure seeing this take on the story.
when one of my favorite content creators from Mario maker (a game I literally never played) covers Fromsoft games (my literal favorite games) I am happy. Glad to run into again Ceave!
I'm always impressed by how thorough you are with not only the information provided, but in your explanations and interpretations. Constantly looking forward to new uploads!
The way I interpreted Fia's ending was that before Marika removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, there were a people who lived as undead (known as Those Who Live In Death) and were labeled heretics simply for existing since as they revived before the rune of death was removed, they weren't able to be revived in the "holy" way like all of the other characters were. As a result, they were hunted by the Golden Order to ensure that only the Erdtree's resurrection method existed. I'm not sure if Fia herself lives in death, but I believe she made the mending rune to replace the Erdtree's resurrection with undeath since it's not inherently bad, it's just frowned upon by the current ruling class. Thematically, it could be considered to be similar to a different religion that believes in rebirth after death (I'm not going to try and pin a specific one because I don't know enough about them) that's not the current accepted ruling religion and thus is othered simply for existing.
Also support this man on Patreon STAT, I made an account just to support him.
ohh i like that interpretation! makes total sense to me. it'd be like saying "stop trying to get into valhalla and start trying to get into heaven" lol
This aligns with my interpretations as well kind of. I always thought of the Elden Ring itself as the player having agency to choose how the world is ordered and the vagueness of the storytelling reflects the uncertainty of making those decisions. Some part of the vague decision making made me feel a bit uncomfortable, which upon reflection feels like a great place to learn from. Great video, you're really coming into your own here on this channel.
I have a newfound appreciation of the Blessing of Despair ending, seeing as it is an alternate way of breaking free of the Greater Will's dogma
This deserves so much more views. This should be brought to all the elden ring lore youtube channels. Please tag them!!!
This was an amazing video! I genuinely hope this video gets pushed through the algorithm, you deserve way more views.
Woah the entire video is a masterpeice...but that whole beginning explaining order and Tao was exceptionally done. Bravo 👏
I'm not sure what award you should win for this, but whatever it is, you should win it.
Algorithm boost. This is brilliant, but I’m afraid that the beginning is so dense that it will lose a lot of casuals. Please keep bringing us this style of video. Loved the philosophy you covered here.
isn't the beginning of every ceave perspective video pretty dense?
I'm trying to kill elden beast with axe of godfrey rn
@@shilohmagic7173 Usually the philosophy crash course comes in art 3 or 4, not part 1.
@@witherschat oh.
I like the philosophy crash course, it's like, my favorite part of every ceave perspective video.
@@shilohmagic7173 I'm not saying it's bad. Just that it might scare new viewers lol.
What's Elden Ring?
Everyone Else: "A Fantasy RPG"
Only Ceave: "Well in 1943..."
Elden Ring is a mishmash of legendary books that came before it, the lord of the rings series, and the eternal champion series. Both series reveal that the powerful object everyone is fighting over is a corrupting force, set to destablize. The Eternal Champion series goes a step further and posits that the protagonist is out to balance Chaos and Order, and will fight on either side depending on which side has the most power at the time.
I legit am going to order and eat a whole large pizza while watching this. No one can stop me, and it will be lit
Flambée? I thought that was for crêpe, not pizza.
You shouldn't, it's against the golden order
sounds like an amazing time hehe
Did you enjoy it?
@heyhonpuds yes I did. I saved the rest for when I'm gonna finish the video (which is now)
This is a really good analysis of the themes and endings, awesome stuff
Along your line of thinking, I believe Fia's ending could be the counterpoint to the Dung Eaters ending. If the dungeater seeks a worldview where the living are all sinful so that no one can cast the first stone, Fia seeks a world where there is no divine punishment.
The dead will not be judged by the circumstances of their life and death whether they are follow the Order or not. Dungeater feels like Original Sin dogma, where the only salvation is through forgivness as we are irredeemable by ourselves. Fia feels more like Marcus Aurelious where the dead should not be judged by how devout they were in life.
I was really impressed that Miyazaki made Elden Ring's central tension and inciting incident revolve around the fact that a cult of religious fundamentalists fractured their religion and nation because they couldn't cope with the fact that god is a trans man.
the sheer amount of content that you didn't even get to touch in this video is insane... i would love a series of videos of your thoughts on the game honestly. great, very interesting, video. i've enjoyed everyone of the videos on this channel, and always make sure i have a day that I can set aside a solid block of time to watch your videos without interruption. looking forward to whatever you do next.
love these new videos. the sheer amount of effort is astounding and incredibly appreciated
Thank you for this video! I've seen a few interpretations but the way you presented yours and how its connects with nihilism finally made things click.
Okay so now I want to actually play this game, this was a fascinating video essay
Awesome Video! I think the game essentially is Marika’s story of survival.
It seems the current god of an age has to die or vacate to an Empyrean for a new era to begin.
The player killing the Erdtree Beast ends the Greater Will’s control over Marika's "destined death"
I think this is why we see so many dead finger readers in Leyndell because they predicted her death, possibly that a Tarnished will ursurp her.
Also why Godfrey gets to the Erdtree before us. I think Marika intended Godfrey as a Tarnished made by her to become her consort cheating the prophecy but the player wins instead
After consuming Elden Ring lore content for 2 years I don't think I've come across someone who answers some of the really big questions in such a simple and convincing manner. Absolutely fantastic job! I will listen to this analysis a second time for sure.
Again, a wonderful and very well researched video. Thank you very much. I am already excited for a possible gameplay analysis.
Always love your content and the way you discuss games, themes, and concepts, thanks for all your hard work and for the great video!
This is good stuff man throughly enjoyed listening to your perspective on the meaning as well as the connections via peripheral books and statements.
I am blown away by this video... made me want to ask everyone the question this game asks.
I think the Age of Dust Born is about the belief that Death is something to celebrate rather than fear. many old culture used to believe this, like the Egyptian, they used to believe that the life after death is much more important than the life before, so they have many rituals related to death, like mummification.
In spiritualy it means preperation to your next life
Every video i learn something new about different ideologies en history. Keep doing what you're doing. You're one of the only ones on this platform that actually is interesting and informative. Keep doing what you love and i'll be there for all the video's to come.
I personally like the theory that Melina is some kind of spirit projection of Miquella.
Great video man. Amazing work!
As always, an amazing analysis. Very much entertained. Leaving a comment for the algorithm
your stuff always amazes me, great work
7:46 I am a lawyer and this discussion among naturalism, nihilism, morals and ethics is a real tangible thing to us, What is right? What is not? Why? we know that the moral norms, influence ethics, but are all the moral rules good or righ? is something good because is moral? is something moral because is good? what is good? what is bad? why? there is an entire branch of legal studies that is call the philosophy of law which tries to tackle these questions, however the only thing that we can agree upon is that a good law usually is a practical one which at the same time can be adapted to the morals of the time, some of the most ancient laws come from social norms that just work, like do not steal, do not kill, do not rape or do not disrespect your parents and so on, basic rules that keep society working as intended combined with state or communal power to effectively punish offenders.
I love when video essays about games include more context and references. I want more deep readings of text/ meta text, and less play by play rehashing of the plot.
I hope this video gets a lot more views!
I *think* the idea with the Prince's rune of death ending is that you're incorporating life after death back into the Ring in a way fundamentally different to how it was done by Merika. Merika's version is essentially reincarnation - you die, are taken up into the Erd tree, and are reborn from it. With Godwyn's rune, you die and aren't ever reborn, but still you live on in the way Godwyn does. The real issue is we don't really know how Godwyn lives on after death... we just assume that his soul can't truely die until his body does (thus the comments about him lacking a true death), thus it's alive in some way somewhere.
What I always wondered is does that ending leave the world with an ever growing number of zombies? Or does it lead to a Dark Souls type world where everyone goes Hollow in the end?
Farum Asula also have a Dragon Corpse in the Midle of it Giving it Order. The Storm is holding the Chaos Together.
Thats a great fucking point
Great video! Hard work shows
Best ER lore video I’ve seen so far, great job!
This is the first game you’ve covered so far that I don’t really know much about, excited to watch it
Everyone must watch this man, TH-cam algorithm.
Amazing analysis. Thank you. I will watch repeatedly. On my Elden Ring playlist. Top quality.
Fun Fact the story of Elden Ring is: you the player need to lay the smackdown on personalities and/or monsters in 'the lands between' to become king and find the one ring.
Accurate and true. You should make a video to set all these lore speculators straight about what we actually experience as the story when playing the game.
@@mistakai4226 the thing is people confuse lore with story. Like its cool the world has history and stuff, but most of the time it tells you this in text dumping or some person talking to you.
I always thought of Ranni's ending being about abandoning faith in god and replacing it with science and empirical seek of knowledge. Never thought of the part of taking responsibility for self beliefs and I like this interpretation a lot
I am just amazed by your work. Although I didn´t get to play Elden Ring myself, your analysis of the philosophy and its counteracting themes is easily the most interesting and thoughtprovoking video I seen in a while. It really is a joy to dive into new topics and beliefs while discovering the way the game chooses to present them. I am already looking forward to your upcoming videos. Or in other words:
Thank you for your analysis and your brilliant work.
Lots of hugs
Woah the channel isn’t even a year old? This is seriously impressive quality and super interesting!
Regarding the Elden Beast's sword, I thought that was Radagon / Marika's body that the beast repurposed for its weapon (hence the twisting blade design). And the hilt resembles the Radagon statues we see in a few places in the game.
I thought it was fitting given Ranni's desire to not be used as a tool for the Greater Will, as failing to defeat us at the end resulted in the Elden Beast (and by proxy the Greater Will) throwing out all pretense and just straight up using Marika / Radagon as weapon to stop us.
Post-watch algo boost comment + thoughts.
Great as always, with a quality that makes any topic interesting.
I didn't disagree with your analysis on this video, but I swera you could write an entire video essay saying things I disagree with one after the other and I'd still watch it.
I noticed the "two fingers + three fingers = a complete five fingered hand" thing myself, but then quickly discounted it for two reasons.
First: This only works if you exclusively count the two Finger things you the player personally interact with. But doing so would be pretty arbitrary, because there are definitely more Finger things out there, such as the one Ranni kills, and the dead ones inexplicably decaying on top of towers. If you count those as well- and I see no reason you shouldn't, the world doesn't revolve around your character's personal journey after all- then the math doesn't work out so nice.
Second: Sure, a standard human hand has five fingers. But continuing along the human anatomy comparison route, standard human hands come in pairs. So if you're going with some sort of "hands of the creator" concept, then where's the other hand worth of fingers? It wouldn't make sense to be the other dead fingers, because they all seem to be two-fingered Finger things. And no amount of pairs will add up to the five remaining fingers needed for another hand. Though if you discount the odd thing out with three fingers, (which doesn't seem entirely arbitrary since it seems to be the one rebel of the group... probably?) than five two-fingered Finger things could combine to make a proper pair of hands' worth of fingers. In which case... alive or dead, just how many two-fingered Finger things were in the game again?
And one last smaller issue: If you're smashing the fingers together into one hand, then the palm parts should be similarly additively combined, and I can't help but feel like combining the two palms of the two and three Fingers as they are would make for a weirdly wide hand.
Amazing Video as always
Love your videos Ceave
Great video! I have a few remarks:
1. " The philosophy of Nihilism. The rejection of all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless."
Meaningless in what sense?
Usually the word Nihilism carries a negative connotation. If we want to be philosophically precise, it is usually used to describe a person who not only rejects that life is meaningless objectively, but also subjectively! If I have to formalize it looks like this:
Premise 1: Life has meaning if and only if it has meaning objectively.
Premise 2: Life does not have meaning objectively.
Conclusion: Therefore, life has no meaning.
Before we look at the premises in more details, lets clarify what objectively means. In modern metaethics objective means stance independent. Or independent of preferences, emotions, desires, goals etc.
Not lets replace the word objective with its equivalent and see how the premise looks like - "Life has meaning if and only if it has meaning independent of preferences, emotions desires, goals." We, the moral anti-realists disagree with that.
To say that "things matter independent of our preferences, emotion etc." is unintelligible. It is not communicable in principle.
Consider the following:
" Nobody in the world liked watching the movie A, but A is a good movie independent of if we like it or not"
" Nobody liked the food, but the food is good independent of if we liked it or not"
" Nobody liked the joke, but it is good joke independent of our likes"
Probably most of us wouldn't be inclined to believe in realism about "a good joke", but we prefer certain jokes over others.
We, the moral anti-realist, say for "something to matter" means simply "somebody cares about something".
Now, imagine a situation where a person walks around and says "There are no stance independent facts about which joke is good". I imagine many of us will agree with that statement. But we wouldn't call them joke nihilists. We would say this person believes that the truth maker of which joke is good, is a preference. So the joke is fun in a subjective way.
Same thing with the meaning of life question. We don't hold that life has meaning independent of subjectivity, so we reject first premise, thus the conclusion that life has no meaning doesn't follow. Same way as there is no jokes that are objectively good (Independent of our likes), but we simply prefer some jokes over others.
To summarize my point in 1 sentence - The denial of moral realism, the idea that values are objective, does not entail moral nihilism. It entails moral anti-realism. Which is the idea that value judgments are expressions of attitudes or assertion of our preferences.
2. Even if god existed, which of course is incoherent, theists still don't get moral realism. If the christian god exists, and the bible is true, then we get the 10 commandments. But commandments are expression of gods attitude. It means that god desires that we perform certain acts over the others. So moral anti-realism is true again.
I want to leave a response, but I don't want to spend the next week debating the definition of "is."
@@SheevPalpatine I encourage you to leave a response. As far as definitions go - I am not a "language realist", I don't think there is correct definition independent of the communicative intent of the speaker and the interpretation of the listener, so we most certainly wouldn't debate over semantics.
Cool comment🫡
It seems that people can not grasp the fact that not all things have an inherent deeper meaning. This is why religion exists, as it's merely a way to cope with their insecurities and fears. Look at Christianity: in what world would an all-powerful, benevolent lord allow children to be disease ridden, genocide to occur, and a quote on quote lack of morals. It's simply impossible for this to be the case. Thanks for commenting.
It’s about the pursuit of knowledge, power, balance through facing one’s shadow and the hierarchy of nature/religious institutions.
My impression is Fromsoft lost a lot of George Martin's meaning when they adapted his story, then we lost even more as the game was translated into different languages. The story is probably supposed to be very simple.
Wow, thanks for the video on Elden Ring!
Nice vid as always!
werd mir das videi jetzt mal zum schlafengehen anhören und dann morgen ordentlich schauen. hilft sicher mit den stats auch ein bisschen 😁😁
aber erstmal vielen dank für die arbeit, die du in die perspective videos steckst. ich hab mir immer schon längere videos von dir gewünscht, und freu mich dementsprechend immer extrem wenn von dem kanal was neues in meiner abobox ist. also danke 🙏🙏
I liked this video! I enjoy longform video essays! You hear that algorithms?! It’s good!
I've watched hundreds of hours of lore videos and this is the best concise explanation that I've seen. Now I think I finally understand at least 25% of what this game is about.
This is why I believe Ranni's ending to be the best by far. I would even say it's the "true" or "ideal" ending.
Nietzsche's culture of the last men predicted our society today over one hundred years before it emerged by the way.
Melina: "I come to deliver you destined death", "she is worried about nihilism". Here I thought it meant she was to gank us for backstabbing her, my bad.
Yess new ceave video I hope it finally blows up and u get the views you deserve
its a little bit complex to understand all these ideologies and abstract ideas but I loved the video. I also admire you for dedicating all this time on putting toghether all this simbolic story bits , and I hope the algorythm really really really helps you out. I would definitely love to watch that post-dlc elden ring vid. This is art man 🎉
i actually feel like u gave an answer to an unanswerable question that we didnt even know… wow. thank you and well done sir
FANTASTIC video! Truly this has completely changed my view of this game for the better and I just want to replay it again
amazing video. thanks a lot
Best discussion on the ties between Elden Ring’s lore and our real world. Absolutely phenomenal.
27:00 Not really willingly as much as she can't really do anything about it, since she's in a catatonic heartbroken state, with the whole second phase being a spell cast by Ranni to protect her.
I love this take. In the framework you've presented I think Fia's ending makes the most sense in a context you didn't touch on much: sin. Those Who Live In Death, and really all non-humans in The Lands Between, are at best condescended to and at worst condemned. They live outside of grace; they live in death; they live in the Golden Order's notion of Sin. However, none of these outsiders chooses to be what they are; the fundamentalist version of the Order condemns them not for choices, but merely for being. I posit then that Fia's mending represents an evolution to a more tolerent, less dogmatic Order, one that can better adapt to new ideas or ways of being- an attempt to adapt religion to Modern realities instead of doubling down or abandoning it entirely.
This is why I think Elden Ring is so hard to interpret. It is not giving an answer, but posing a question: what is the meaning of life? It paints a wonderfully dark, yet beautiful picture exposing the current situation.
Finally thank god! I was wondering for so long about the philosopical topics Elden Ring explores, other than Nihilism, Existentialism, Realism, etc.
13:28 "It's a ring-shaped collection of runes, each rune being a law which defines the world's behaviour"
Baba is You entered the chat
Great video!
Awesome point of view!!
Glad to see you back ceave
The difference between The Age of The Duskborn's death and The Golden Order's death is that Marika made it so that death doesn't exist and essentially made her own death which only works for those who worship the Golden Order or those given grace and when they die they return to the Erd Tree's roots and be rebirthed. The Duskborn's death I believe is literally just immortality, when you die, you live again in Death. Which may mean to live within death or as death, as a quote unquote "dead" person.
It's miquellas sub for the erd tree and golden order
It's a new path of life and death
"I will endure all manner of heritical power to save ashina" miquella
@@Chessheromusic So a better life, death, and rebirth system? Sounds great! Guess I'm gonna be a consort again *sprays mouth perfume**
@@apolloisnotashirt haha well yea
But Mohgwyn didn't know he was kidnapping an empty vessel as Miquella had already used the halig tree to divest himself of his cursed body
Without a soul the body grows direction less like godwyn
The reason the withered hand can take you to the land of shadows or the underworld is bc the vessel is dead
Like in death stranding where bridge babies are born partly in death by a brain dead mother.
Miquellas old body works as a vessel partly in death to underworld
The halig tree is geographically literally in the shadow of the erdtree
And symbolically is its shadow
Damn the writers understand a lot about the history of the world
Like why gold. Why is dune or Star Wars on a sand planet???!
The historical meaning of gold
The reason it's what's sought through the philosophers stone
This shit runs soooo deep
If you had an idea of how brilliant this was?!
Maybe you do but this fiction is steeped in truth
That's why it resonates with most
Those who don't get it
Really don't get anything
Sad but true
@@apolloisnotashirt ha indeed
Most people haven't a clue how historically accurate Elden ring is - about the start of mankind and our relationship to our creators
Elden ring is a pretty in depth story of all that happened
From the scared geometry of the tree of life In the Elden ring itself
To why a gold?
People don't understand how deep this shit is
From the war the Catholic Church had when in itself
Between the believers that did the sign of the cross w two fingers and those who taught 3 was correct and 2 blasphemous
To gold only being a precious medal bc that's what were told and no longer have any understanding of its true power
But the ancient summer Ian's with legends of our creator the anunaki
They buried their dead with gold
To freya making a pact everything In Midgard to not ever hurt baldur, the golden boy
Except mistletoe of course
To Marika sealing away death after Godwyn demise
Baldurs death created an earthquake , an eclipse, and the long night started in fimbul winter
Proceeding the start of ragnorak
Or twilight of the gods
Or the end of the world as it's commonly known
Now Messmer ,miquellas older reg haired brother
May have been the person to massacre the giants
Much like the red haired Thor and his hammer
It goes on and on
W the goal of the philosophers stone to make gold
Unalloyed gold
This game is too good, man. Thanks for that🫡@Chessheromusic