My son applied to join the RAF, he passed every exam with flying colours, the recruitment officer said it’s the highest pass mark he’d seen at that office. He was turned down. His friend from school applied, same thing, passed all the exams and he was turned down too. They were never told why they were turned down but I can take an educated guess as to why.
@@sirvikalcrusader3668 Imagine risking your life to defend another country's borders, when the UK's own borders are completely unprotected. And your own government despises you for being too English.
Not just the financial considerations, why would anyone want to join up, when the UK's history and culture is being rubbished constantly by those in charge. Other sectors are suffering similarly aswell.
We're basically the 51st state of the US at this point. British society has been Americanized at the expense of our own while having infinite Africans replacing us
Join the military efend your country , get sent to some middle eastern shit hole by some sneaky politician because he wants more influence in the region to gain favourable economical deals. Last time britain defended themselves was maybe in Falklands i mean its a stretch to say that islands belong to britain being so far away and what not , but british peopel do live there so they shoudnt be just pushed aside.
Ex SNCO Armourer 26 years experience, 16 years fast jet GR1/4, F3 and Hawk . So glad I've left that clusterfkuc behind me. So sorry for the boys and girls trying to keep the clown show running........sad times...
My son is doing a 60 mile walk for the Air Cadets this weekend. What shoukd I guide him to towards? He's a great kid. I'm struggling to know what to do.
advice him to emigrate out of this country, it’s fecked !!! Genuine suggestion. I’ve taken my family lock stock and barrel to France, that’s how convinced I am to what’s coming 😔
@realMaverickBuckley if he wants to go aircrew, ask Tim. If he wants to work on aircraft engineering, I would definitely guide him towards going heavy (airframes or engines). Armourers are a diying bread.
Ninety-one years old, been retired for over thirty years, having previously served thirty-eight. Ten years Fast-Jet and twenty-eight with Helos. A2 QHI, A1 GTI, three tours with CFS (H) having served world-wide incl Borneo and Aden. Tim. your account of the state of our beloved Service makes me weep. Never having gained exalted rank, I served as Specialist Aircrew. Limited career but never found myself behind the mahogany desk (Flying the brown Bomber as slang would have it ) I was content to suck my oxygen through a rubber mask and fight the Gees as I pulled on the levers ! The insanity that we have witnessed in the upper levels is perplexing. These guys at the top are supposed to be the brightest and the best yet we at the lower levels can see the disaster unfolding year upon year. I can only conclude that they are under duress to follow a hidden agenda from a higher authority. Financial constraint must be a part of their dilemma but there seems to be something sinister going on. I would like to know the full story of who, what and why this madness is being fostered. Well done Tim. Your inciteful and well informed clips are a window on reality and if the senior Blokes at the top are not watching and taking serious note of your observations then we are surely on the slide to oblivion.
Long long time ago, someone had figured out, that the West can't be beaten militarily, so they went for subversion tactics instead. It's a Trojan War. I think Yuri Bezmenov is very close to the truth, though the old Soviet Union is by far not the only culprit.
Thank you for your service Sir. I'm the same but NHS. I've given 40 years to it. For what? Diversity politics aka Zionist politics. Look it up. Conservative or Labour Friends of Israel. Every western country is ruled by them.
Tried twice in the early 2000s to join the RAF as ATC or Fighter Controller. Failed phase 2 at Cranwell twice. I was heart broken, but looking back I am very glad my life went down a different path, especially seeing the state of it now.
This isn't just the military. I retired from the police 2 yrs ago. Within 8 months I was contacted (along with others) if I would be interested in rejoining? I thought about it for all of 10 seconds (60 yrs old, going back to working 12 hr shifts, nights dealing with f***wits,emm no thanks). Turns out the retention of new, young in service officers is a big problem. Burnout due to work load, salary,having to work nights, weekends... yes I kid you not, having to work nights ??? (did they not realise this before joining?) I absolutely loved my time in the force, but I don't think I last very long these days. I'd probably upset some scroat no doubt ! Love your updates Tim.
Paying now for all those years rejecting the ex mil lads and blokes who understand you have to work hard for good things. Recruiting uni grads and those from desired backgrounds that have had "you can be whatever you want to be" and "you are a victim" smashed into them throughout their school/uni life was always going to backfire
When the police prioritise government targets and arresting poor, elderly people for making mean tweets over burglaries and catching bad guys, then they get what they deserve.
Salary of a air force pilot in France is roughly equivalent, but France does not seem to have the same recruitment issue, so clearly salary is not the only issue in the UK...
You Kiddin me!?? My dad was a Flt/Air Nav instructor with the BCATP....every member of my family served...including all the girls. I'll hold off... Bless em all!
Train drivers are left wing unionisers, and as a result they get good pay and good working conditions. Thats what conservatives don't understand. Their pay is good, this pay is terrible.
Problem is train drivers mostly private companies.. anything government paid is toss. Local call centre to me earns 34k basic for handling calls 42 hour week. Im a fire fighter and just clear 36k with unsociable hours and un predictable work... will always be the same
I was a fireman for 11 years in glasgow, then a freight train driver in crewe for 20 years. I loved the fire service, but you have no idea the training involved being a train driver. Even when you cant see past the windscreen because its thick with fog, you are still flying around at 75 mph on freight and well over 125 mph on inter city trains. You better know your routes. No good crossing over a 20 mph section at a 100 mph. You will end up in a field somewhere. Its nothing like driving on a road. Ive done both jobs. Glasgow central was the busiest fire station in europe at the time. Trust me, there is way more to learn being a train driver and its more dangerous every day, if you make a mistake
What you outline is why I, as an experienced rigger corporal with every authorisation under the sun, including class 1 structures, left the RAF and went to much more lucrative employment in the offshore oil and gas industry.
The force is to put it mildly fucked ! From MT drivers with HGV getting poached, ATC getting poached, 737 engineers 80k outside, AV techs for anything EV and renewables, C4I and cyber getting poached. Even Tesla is prioritising hiring forces people as service engineers as cars are computerised. Christ even the RPAS pilots are going as the UAV world is expanding at an incredible rate with NHS and offshore using them for everything.
As an EX-MT myself I just looked up the current salary range and its about £26k after 6 months service . I have a mate who Tesco trained to drive artics and he cleared £54k with overtime last year
@@richierich9761 yep, the bus companies here are offering £28k. A heating oil company 5kL small ADR tankers £40k. The Tesla service centres and mobile engineers £55k plus a car.
That is actually a good description on what is going on in the whole western world. They do not try to tell us it is raining...they are telling us it is raining and if you say no they will come after you with police and medics.
Hey Tim ! Helelnic Air Force WO here . We have our own pilot bleed prob here also (not like RAF bad though but getting there...) . Many young pilots try to get a posting in transport squadrons just to get their licences and hours up in order to get out at the minimum service time and get airline jobs ... Personally at 51 and after 29 years of service I cannot wait till retirement never to see and hear a damn acft again in my life ...
There certainly is, all that taxpayers' money being funneled by a Tory government into the pockets of their chums by dismantling the asylum processing system so as to create a massive backlog.
And there is plenty of money for LTNs, Net-Zero, Diversity Equity and Inclusion, and all the Civil Service or non productive staff that such ideologies require.
Very informative Tim In my view the more you earn the more you get taxed on in the uk . I’m ex Raf and left the Airforce in 94 as a Cpl gas turbine tech . I’m now a caa licenced aircraft engineer on a good salary . I’ve been offered positions at 80,000 but after you work out the 40 percent tax and having 2 living expenses away from home it isn’t worth the hassle Regards Dave from Scotland
I left in ‘96 after 27 years and was an Engineering Technician Propulsion and never once heard of the trade Gas Turbine Tech. What is that, something to do with the Gas Board?
@@davidmuir6849 I know what a sooty is, I was one for 27 years. My point is, I’ve never once heard that trade described as a Gas Turbine Tech. After all, it wasn’t only turbines sootys dealt with.
I don't recall any pay cap after 2010 of even anything as low as 1%. As a police officer, we received 0% pay rises from 2009 until September 2023. I now feel almost as poor in real terms as I did when I joined up in 2005.
Until the police start policing they don't deserve a pay rise. Two tier event policing, ignoring real crimes to trawl the internet for non crime hate incidents (largely because vast amounts of cops are too fat to police the streets), covering up grape gangs, pandering to wokeness...yeah. no pay rise sounds fair to me.
I left on a double your money deal and can wholeheartedly say it was the best thing I ever did. Flying in the raf was probably the best and the worst job I have ever had and after being offered a desk hold for 2 years or double your money to keep flying commercially, then it's a no-brainer. But that lead to me having the time and resources to set up my own company and more importantly have a life i.e. family, kids, stability and a little bit of enjoyment.
A fascinating video that really exposes the poor state of our military. As well as the financial issues, i think we also have cultural issues where fewer young people would be willing to defend the UK. I served in the RAF from 18 -21.
My son is a 23yr old mechanic in major car dealership. He is on 36k base, plus gets bonuses on top of that. The pay in the military is rubbish in comparison when you conbsider what job they do.
Sad but true. Back in 2016 or 2017 I had a rare opportunity to raise similar concerns not only with my Boss (who had never been able or keen to do anything, I guess), but also in a meeting with both the Station Commander and AOC 2Gp. Perhaps unusually, my main issue was with rostering and safety, and apparent lack of interest in making sure we had enough instructional staff to maintain the training throughput to the front line. We were haemorrhaging pilots and instructors to the airlines, not because of pay, but because of terrible working conditions, a total unwillingness to value personnel, significant safety shortfalls, and transparent two-faced leadership. As you've mentioned in another video, I was literally told that 'if I didn't like where the train was going, I should get off.' I was a senior instructor, QFI, IRE with 16 years of experience. When I pointed out that this attitude was one of the reasons that we were heading for a major problem in the training system, I was told by AOC 2Gp that he could replace me tomorrow with a 19-year-old Typhoon pilot who would be all to happy to have such opportunities. Haha, good luck! At least I tried... Not surprisingly that was the final nail in the coffin for me... People always struggle to see why I would give up what I described as 'the best job in the world'. I suspect it's beyond repair by now, and even though I STILL think it's the best job in the world, there's no way I'd go back!
the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) had/has the same problem where pilots were struggling to maintain minimum flight hours due to budget constraints. Even jet fuel was being rationed. Along come airlines like Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin, etc. with pay rates 3x what they were getting in the Air Force, so they left.
Go woke get Broke ....or in this case get wrecked . Wigston and his traitors killed my beloved previous Service . Sad days and I don't know how this can now recover .
Wigston wasn't responsible for funding the RAF though. That's down to the last 14 years of tory government. Your stupid anti-woke slogan just shows you have been taken hook, line and sinker by the tory BS. All designed to deflect away from their own failings. Well done!
It's all part of the master plan. Cannot defeat us head on so they have to use subversion and eat away slowly in a battle of attrition against our institutions, Military, Police etc etc.
It’s not just the RAF. After my stint in the mob, I did 5 years on corporate jets at Oxford Airport. Handed a letter one morning, info-ing me I’m redundant from x-date, along with a bunch of others. (But not the only, sub-par, female 🤷♂️) By midday I was told could leave that day but on pay until leave date, so I said my goodbyes and went home to start job hunting on full pay. Phoned later that afternoon by manager, stating they made a mistake and would I please return. Two words, second word, ‘off’. 🤣😂 Tw@ts!
Tim I’m very glad that you’ve started to touch upon the impacts that pay restraint has had, and is having on AF retention. There is a greater need for armed forces pay restoration than that of the junior doctors. I’m a SNCO. At a jobs fair last week I was offered roles paying DOUBLE my RAF salary. For an easier life!
The problem is unless you've got a consultant badge on they don't listen to anybody, even when they've got intelligent well-rounded genius is working for them
Same in all industries. They’d rather pay a consultant mega bucks to tell them exactly what you’ve been saying for years… they think we’re dumb though.
I was not in the RAF but have relatives who were. It is shameful how it is being ruined. My father joined at the age of 18 and served on the fast rescue boats in WW2
In 1976 I took a pay drop of approximately 50% to join the RAF as an officer. I was previously working as a builder’s labourer. A year later the RAF were called in over Christmas to cover for the Fire Service, who were striking for better pay. Many RAF personnel were on less money than they were, obviously with no right to strike. When I left in 1994 as an A2 QHI and QFI I immediately doubled my leaving salary. A few years later the RAF wrote to me inviting me back, to be paid on a daily rate as a high readiness reserve. I wrote back, advising them that I lived in the Far East and would need to fly back every month. I was offered 45p per mile motor mileage from Luton Airport to Odiham and they would abate my RAF pension! Total out of touch with reality. So nothing much changes.
I’m Australian, I was in the Australian army and deployed with the British to Afghanistan in 2007. The differences in our pays was staggering, to the point we were told not to share our pay slips. All militaries need to up there game and pay the soldiers what they deserve
Yeah that's why a lot of blokes are being poached from UK forces to oz forces now at the offer of doubled wages, sunshine and citizenship in a far richer & safer country. Especially now the oz forces have announced a planned growth in personnel numbers
This is a problem across the entire public sector. I saw a doctor interviewed recently who said that if pay continues to fall in real terms from the 2010 level doctors will just emigrate. It’s that simple.
This is not just an RAF issue. Sadly this is across the board from our military to our entire public services, the wrong people have been promoted and put in charge. My son is 15 and wants to join the military, I don’t have the heart to tell him that he is not wanted and will be treated as a second class citizen if he gets in. I despair at what is happening to our country.
Nothing much changed since I was serving in the 1970s and 80s, then. I was operational on Harriers and Tornados. I left in spring 1989 at my 38/16 point. Yes, I had to pay and do a few courses to get an ATPL but I virtually doubled my income when I joined BA. My subsequent earnings as an airline captain, pilot trainer and examiner dwarfed anything I would have been paid if I'd stayed in except perhaps if I'd made it all the way to CAS (I knew that wasn't going to happen). Constant domestic upheavals played a part too. Her indoors had had enough. And people who don't actually fly are not 'aviators'. Inclusive tosh.
The whole Military System is in the sh*t! My Grandson has been trying to join Army Signals Regiment (Poor Boy....I'm ex-RAF) for 3months. The communication from themr is dire. Still no attendance at any Meetings to assess his capability. As for RAF. Even the Aircraft seem unsuitable, especially binning the C130's.
The destruction of the pension scheme didn’t help. I was lucky and managed to stay on the old system but anyone joining now gets pretty much bugger all.
I agree. AFPS 15 is good but nothing in comparison to the previous schemes. The incentive to do 22 years / to have a career just isn't there. Also the postings are pretty grim now, I grew up in Germany as my dad was at Brüggen. My skill set means that I'd likely spend my working life in Birmingham if I rejoined the army as a regular.
Absolute crap - the AFPS15 pension is still one of the best pensions out there. Non-contributory 1/47th accumulation vs NHS (which is regarded as a good pension) would require you to contribute 13.5% of your wage (at similar salary talked about in this video) and accrues at a slower 1/54 rate.
@@timjames2055 they may well have been and suspect they are probably referencing AFPS 75, but unless they have a time machine, what people got from a pension scheme which ended almost 20 years ago is pretty irrelevant. And to suggest AFPS 2015 offers "bugger all" is either stupid or ill informed. If someone went to the personal finance or FIRE reddits claiming that a Non-contributory DB pension accruing at 1/47th is "bugger all" and you'd get shouted out of there!
It wasn’t just the crap pay. People get fed up of being detached somewhere for a couple of months, getting home and finding that they’re going somewhere else in a couple of weeks for another couple of months. They want a home life too. I never begrudged jockeys the extra money because it’s a dangerous job. 999 times out of 1000 everything goes smoothly. But when it goes wrong, it goes wrong very quickly. They are trained and paid for that time. I saw one black fast jet pilot in the RAF in thirty years. Flying Jaguars at Coltishall. The RAF gave everyone the same opportunity as long as they met the requirements. There shouldn’t be lowering of standards for certain people, for the obvious reasons. It’s not rocket science.
Bang on . This is just the sort of information that civilains need to see . When i served evryone siad go you must be loaded and as your well aware thats not the case at all. We serve because we want to serve and not for money per say. But pay a man what hes worth and you will get respect . Treat him well and he will give his all . Treat him with respect and he will respond.Treat him badley and with no repect and you have lost that person for ever. Great stream mate . 👍👍👍
British Aerospace some 35 years ago were paid £250,000 a year for each seconded Fast-Jet Pilot to Saudi Arabia - the Pilot received approximately £60,000 tax free of that (at that time as much as an Air Marshall) - but all the Pilots seconded were extremely experienced with other expensive qualifications such as Qualified Instructors - Weapons Instructors - Instrument Rating Examiners - etc. - and the amount of experience with say 2000 hours flying was in the order of another £80M - so no doubt the Royal Saudi Air Force saw £250,000 a year as an absolute bargain - as they could pay that for 16 years for the price of just training a pilot. But let's be clear it's not about money - the RAF has been totally dismantled.
When I joined the RAF (Regt), in 78, it wasn't for the money, it was more a vocation. Yes, the pay was crap has was most of the kit, but the comradeship and banter were amazing. Sure, some of the rules were draconian, but they were the rules . Who thought that at 18, I could live in Cyprus for three years and Germany with family, for seven (stamps or discount). When Op Gramby started, I was at Bruggen, and I knew then that we'd all trained to do what the RAF was being asked to do, throughout the Cold War, and so we did it brilliantly. The RAFs priorities these days seems not to be "in peace training for war" but worrying about DEI and ensuring that the so-called "Aviator s" are of the right colour, gender and that all know their pronouns! Who'd join that or want to stay?
Same here, Grandfather was in the Army, my father in the RAF, i joined the RAF. Cyprus, Berlin, Bruggen, all over the UK, excellent times, makes me sad to see whats happened. Incidently this video below may interest you, a German guy taking a tour around Bruggen as it was after we all left ! th-cam.com/video/uujAZUsCYmM/w-d-xo.html
@AnthonyJones-vk6xq thanks mate but I avoid looking at these videos, too many memories of a great seven years at Bruggen, and sad to see that it's all gone, but thanks once again.
@@michaelbasford5109 No worries, i know what your saying......i think we are fortunate to have been in BFG when the armed forces were really at their peak !
I love your energy and clarity of thought and expression… honestly, £100k is not a lot of money for someone with the level of skill, experience and competence you cite… PWC’s analysis of the ‘value’ of such instructors is the way the business world calculates value; it’s not a moral issue, simply an economic issue. I also agree that we can’t afford to sacrifice the principles of meritocracy for a false understanding of equality… the focus of equality must be on equalising opportunity rather than on focusing on outcome… for me, the perfect example of equality of opportunity in my view is the Premier league, which also has a truly diverse work-force… the focus on performance in a brutally competitive environment will always generate the best results… if we aspire as a society to achieve higher levels of representation of women and ethnic minorities in the RAF, then the emphasis should be on encouraging the passionate engagement of people from these groups in the fields of aviation/engineering from a young age rather than from focusing on quotas or lower standards. BUT… we should also be willing to acknowledge the fact that people from different social classes/.cultures/genders have different interests and abilities… and lastly… my impression is that the predominant motivation of professionals who champion DEI issues in such blunt/numeric forms derives from their own self-promotion rather than a deep philosophical engagement with the issue of social equity itself… I’m a working class white male, an old-fashioned leftie, first person in family to go to university and now I’m a psychiatrist after studying medicine in my 30s. I may not be your typical viewer or supporter, but I agree whole-heartedly that our society must strive to embody meritocratic principles… these are horrifically undermined by focusing on superficial demographically-based identities. If we want greater ‘diversity’ representation in our fighter pilots, then 1) recognise the issue of social class within the analysis (this is actually the key ‘diversity’ issue). 2) increase the exposure of ‘target’ groups to the fundamental fields of interest required as an investment in the future… even go so far as to set up cadetships or sponsorship programmes in schools etc in order that people from ‘diverse’ backgrounds can meet the same standards as are currently expected. 3) view the ‘culture’ developed in the U.K. over the last 100+ years for technical excellence with a focus on aviation (based predominantly in middle and upper middle class white families and schools with a military tradition) as an asset which can be utilised to develop similar models in other social environments rather than being subject to criticism in a perniciously evolving cultural revolution…
I am a New Zealander and my 21 year old son recently enquired about joining the RAF as a fast jet pilot. He has no desire to fly civilian airliners as I have for most of my working life. The RAF reply was not overly encouraging.
nowt changes over the years, different people same mistakes... I was 'deployed' on the Green Goddesses (with half a day's training) during the Fireman's strikes 1977/78 for their lack of pay rises. The media actually picked up on military pay in comparison to the Fireman & a Public outcry 'forced' pay rises for 'us' too. Unfortunately, our food/accom charges were raised in line & we ended up with around a £1 extra in our pockets per month! (some had less). 😡
When will this government realise skilled people employed in public establishments will not work for pay that is decreasing year on year. So we have the government of 'not enough'. Not enough RAF pilots, not enough teachers - my son walked out a year ago to drive a van and earn more money, not enough nurses or doctors, same for lorry drivers, builders, skilled tradesmen working for the local councils. The NHS took a year to arrange for a highly qualified mental health professional to take up a post because of a shortage of admin staff who kept leaving so the process had to restart. The job was to clear the backlog waiting list as quickly is possible.
I'm 57 and very good with a bass broom, I wonder if they have a possible position for me..Those runways don't clean themselves. Also keen and willing to upgrade to space cadet.
This is part of a much wider problem. As a nation we have been living beyond our means for decades, running a deficit and borrowing the difference has become the norm, it is unsustainable. The state is running out of options, the money isn't there, individuals can earn much more in the private sector. We're fucked. Now add uncontrolled immigration on top of that, and contrary to the belief in some quarters they don't all work in 'our' NHS, all to often they don't work at all, and then they import their non working dependents. We're doubly fucked. How depressing.
Is it because there's less of a service ethos as more amd more of what the RAF does has been out-sourced to private contractors? The RAF, part of the Babcock group.
110% spot on again boss Timbo! T2 civ engineer side with well know big lol company is also in haemorrhage mode, the chat is that a certain airline parts manufacturer just over the border is thinking of supplying a bus from island bridge to ferry workers as it would attract more from T2
The moment it was enforced that the RAF must be DEI included. The Force Left in less than 4weeks. It Will take 10 years + to get this experience and skill qualities back in the RAF.
I really dont know how they will fix this, During the 90s while I was at School, I was in the Air Training Corps, I LOVED it, spent as much time as I could doing it and did all the flying I could. I went so often, I could (with an RAF instructor) Take off, Barrel roll, loops etc, I could fly the pattern, break downwind and land. Never went Solo but was encouraged to learn privately. As I lived in a single parent household, there was no way I could continue with private tuition. Did RAF Coltishall as summer camp, when the Jaguars were in service and the cemented me wanting to be a Fast Jet Pilot. Left the ATC at 18 and applied at our careers office. Im not brilliant at Maths, but did OK above C in everything. I was basically told forget it, my ATC stuff was irrelevant even my flight training logs. I was advised to go RAF Regt or the Army. My point is that time is that it was best of the best getting in, which I totally get, but over the years that's bit the RAF in the butt as the best of the best are leaving senior flying posts and there is no one coming up behind them. Throw in all this diversity and woke bullshit and here we are. We cant attract young people, and the pay (I didn't know they got 50k) is bad - I get almost that working in IT in factory up north. How do we go forward?
Pretty much what happened to me, around the same time. Went full ham on ATC, took every opportunity to get in the air on gliders and Chipmunks. Volunteered for absolutely sodding everything. Got absolutely nowhere at 18 in '94 - although Options For Change was a factor by then. Upon leaving Uni in 97 I joined Minolta as a copier salesman, my basic and commission on good year was double that of a qualified Flt Lt... Curiously, a few years later an old secondary school classmate joined. Had no interest in planes or anything when we were at school, and went into car sales after finishing college. Last I spoke to him, he'd done a turn in the back of Tornados, then got himself upgraded to flying Nimrods in circles over the North Sea for a bit, and that was basically it for his career. Fully qualified, hardly ever flew in all the time he was in.
Unite the Union found out that whoever drew up the Babcock bid for the DSG Land Contract extension had no provision for pay rises in it. They wonder why they can't get staff and others are leaving !
Handled with aplomb Sir… I became aware of this potential time-bomb as early as 2001 while instructing Airmen Aircrew at RAF College Cranwell. And from memory I was earning around £56K including flying pay as a Flight Sergeant. My previous fixed-wing tour, it was possible to add a further £3-4K in allowances.
Yet there are serving Flight Sergeants who don’t even earn that over two decades later. The RAF is facing a crisis and PAY is at the core of the problem.
Because our thicko government gives money away hand over fist to gangster foreign regimes and the Dr's and solicitors crossing the Channel...thus there is no money left over for the things that really matter ie properly funded defence.
@@TimE-er1kn I don't know the breakdown for the air forces, but the German defence spending this year is actually 12 BIO Pounds higher than the UK: - German defence spending 2024: 72 BIO Euro - UK defence spending 2024: 51 BIO Pounds = 60 BIO Euro Both countries will spend 2.1% of GDP, Germany admittedly for the first time. German Fighter pilots must commit to 16 years service. Their top salary grade A15 spans 5773 Euros (4942 Pounds) to 7251 Euros (6207 Pounds) per month. As state employees with the status of Beamte (equivalent to civil servants), they don't have to pay into the social security system, only income tax is deducted. Their net income is therefore higher than for a non-state employee on the same salary.
The interwar governments had just the same short sighted view of defence. Only then it was much faster to train pilots! We have had a much longer period of relative peace as well so no one has the concept of war status any more.
Former FJ, left 25 years ago, before the real rot got going. Found your channel by accident and echo what you say about the RAF. hung up my flying boots, vowed never to set foot in a cockpit ever again, had the alcoholic dependence, divorced, lost everything then got it slowly back. Still angry with the way the military cuts you off when you leave, no pointers, no help when things are going dark. Told my kids not to ever join up with a service that is no longer recognisable or a government that cares more about everyone living outside of this island. Eventually got back into the cockpit when a friend took me to a gliding club, best therapy out there, stopped doing all the bad stuff.
At the 9 1/2 year point I was a T-38 instructor in 1988 when the USAF was bleeding pilots. Willing to stay in but the USAF system was so rule-bound they were unwilling to work with someone willing to stay in. I wasn’t in for the paycheck, I liked the service even with all the BS. They dropped orders on my desk and it was “take it or leave it”, you have 7 days. Since then it appears the AF hasn’t learned any lessons on retaining people.
Not quite. Once you were in a major command (MAC,TAC,SAC) after pilot training you were in that command for life. I was willing to extend my non-volunteer tour with Training Command for a year, or a non-flying position in an overseas command post like S. Korea, or an exchange tour overseas. My contemporaries in my parent command were all instructor pilots in a weapon system and I would come back as a re-qualifying Aircraft Commander... I had fallen behind my AF contemporaries. The FB-111 was my preferred option, but it was beginning to be phased out and they weren’t putting anyone in the schoolhouse pipeline. Similar story with the SR-71. If I returned as an aircraft commander in my prior weapon system I was promised one of my first five bases of choice out of nine bases. But when I called them to declare my preferences, they proceeded to steer me away from them, "I have six guys going there, I have five guys going there...". HQ/SAC-Rated Assignments was livid when I informed them the Manpower Personnel Center weren't following SAC assignment policies that had previously been agreed to. The opportunities that I had believed would be open...weren't.
If I rock up, Monday morning, no financial or time barriers and said I want to fly a jet, how long until you would give me the keys and say do a low fly mission? How many out of a class of 30 ever make it to the runway?
Kinda hard to go back in on a crap salary, only to find T2s unavailable because they have F35 style avail rates. Sitting round the naffy with cups of tea, but no flight time. That being said. IMHO - the entire flight training program, going back YEARS, and its high cost, was strung out and stretched due to lack of seats, planes, flight time. If we really go to war, the training length of time would shorten, the costs would be lower, and the time from start of training to squadron would be cut. Course for that to happen, planes would need to be rolling of a production line. On a side note. I believe Mr Davies and his flight program could take a pathway for the MOD to a certain level, and be accessible, and at potentially more sensible costs wise for parts of a training program. As for the RAF, unless heads roll and a massive shift in the woke toxic failure takes place, I see very little changing.
A similar theme amongst controllers unfortunately it simply doesn’t get the attention or adverts like pilots but nothing is being done. I don’t see a fix unless a package is offered now. We are being asked to do more with less for less than our civil counterparts, the perks of the RAF simply aren’t there anymore.
Trade SNCO's have a similar story, huge investment to train (personally 4 years trade school training, and 3 year OTJ) to become a para-engineer. The pay is frozen during covid and then under performs inflation by a mile. Meanwhile defence contractors are getting paid $1000's per day, and most produce nothing.
A 3% increase in defence spending wouldn't cover paying personnel a decent wage, let alone re-equipping the forces. It's a good job that Rishi has committed to 2.5% by 2030 then! I'd bet Kier revises it down.
I enjoy your vids as an ex airman left in the early 90's , YTS or YOP ran when i served and you had people working long long shifts for 25 pounds a week and they paid food and accommodation charges as well, so take home was about 10 quid, sub standard accommodation was rife, pay rises were accompanied by raises in food and accommodation charges, govts just dont like spending on its core assets PEOPLE. Current leadership are useless
Your absolutely correct it [DEI] is eroding the foundations of the military across the board it's not just the AF. when one sees the best assignments, promotiontions and everything else passed along to people that haven't earned it -that "it" reverberates throughout the system and military people as a group have memories like elephants. Some of the worst people I worked for in the Army were women that had been promoted two grades above their potential. You can forgive but you will never forget.
Hey, I’m 53 and I’ve always wanted to fly an aircraft. My maths and English is dreadful but I’ve got no doubt you can teach me probably in a couple of months.😂
To expand on the red and black theme . The two nurses stood on the grass at the Kennedy shooting where the car stopped , Red and Black coats . The security service guy Gareth Williams , found zipped up in a sports bag . The bag was red and black . The motorbike in the film Top Gun . " We were inverted " - big line from the film . He a Scientologist . . .
I have agency drivers earning high 50's LGV C E nights, The forces pay rate is an absolute joke not that all Aviation Jobs pay well, FO 737 Midlands Freight being advertised under 40k 🤣
@@Mrtrc33 having worked on frontline jets for the past 35 years in the RAF, MOD and Industry I’d say costs are broadly comparable for the advanced trainers to a Pendolino. Responsibilities in peacetime are comparable too I’d say. 2 crew for the Hawk with seat and responsibilities for those on the ground vs a few hundred passengers being pulled along. Just my opinion of course.
*2.5% of GDP is what we should've been spending for the last 20 years, but haven't, this is EXACTLY Trump's beef, side note; nice pitch, good luck Tim* 👌
One of the biggest detriments to the RAF is that it only has Officers as pilots, unlike the USAF which has SNCOs & Warrant Officers as pilots - many far better than the Office class.
The USAF definitely does not have NCOs/Warrants as pilots, it hasn’t in decades. There’s a small cadre of enlisted RPA pilots, but the manned aircraft are all officers as pilots.
@@paddyohenry6428 Pay me no mind. out of date info here. Ref. to WWII, Flight sergeant pilots RAF USAAF pilots are commissioned officers. I know even changed at the end of WWII. Like I say, just ignore my dumb ignorant ass.
I remember member a ground crew walking up to pilot and saying, "ls it difficult to do a test flight" Before the pilot could answer, another member of the ground crew said" Don't be stupid, if it was difficult, they would get us to do it".
@@AnthonyJones-vk6xq Surely it’s just like any plane. You put the power on to take off and lessen power to stop. Pull the stick back to go up and forward to go down. Even a thicky could do that.
@@stableianF1oracle Except in a car you are dealing with moving in 2 dimensions, in a aircraft you have 3 to deal with, its more complicated than you realise.
The RAF never learn. My father (30 odd years fast jets then ATC)left the RAF in the 80s for a 3 year contract with the Sultan of Oman. He was persuaded back in after his time in Oman, because of shortage of skills, until he retired at 55. Now here we go again! He’s 90 with dementia now, so perhaps they’ll have him back again!
The RAF, along with the other services has been catastrophically let down by successive governments as well as the hierarchy of the MOD. As an x serviceman I feel for all the remaining service people who have to work with such self-seeking career hogging buffoons
Curious if - 1) the T&C's were right for rejoining as a QFI on Hawk/Texan would you rejoin? 2) With the history between you and the RAF - would they offer you a contract?
I'd not previously given thought to how much a pilot flying fast jets would earn in the RAF, but given the nature of the role, and the cost of the hardware they're in charge of, I would have guessed around £80,000 for newly qualified and rising as they gained experience and rank. To learn pilots earn £50,000 was an eye opener. The MOD loves budgeting for new toys but you need to pay people at a level that respects their abilities, skills and experience. What's more demanding, flying a commercial jet or flying in the military. I would argue the latter and the pay should reflect that.
While I accept coming a good second, is not an exceptable in any conflict. Privatisation & very expensive acquisitions haven't helped. Sometimes alternatives would have been more cost effective. Needless to say experienced military personnel are more valuable than private consortiums
@@SworBeyE16 yeah i’m aware but my understanding is that there are some active duty fast jet guys that are a bit older than you would expect. And maybe unreasonable but older recruits could be placed onto other aircraft and allow some younger talent, where applicable, get put onto the fast jet role
@@scott745 It’s more the fact that it can take up to 10 years to train fast jet pilots. You could have someone join at 23 and not finish OCU until they’re into their 30s, by which point they’re settled down with a family. It’s a very bad situation
@@scott745 The older guys are the ones who should be QFIs and weapons instructors, but there’s such a shortage that those who should be instructors are on the frontline
My son applied to join the RAF, he passed every exam with flying colours, the recruitment officer said it’s the highest pass mark he’d seen at that office. He was turned down. His friend from school applied, same thing, passed all the exams and he was turned down too. They were never told why they were turned down but I can take an educated guess as to why.
Phil I take it your son isn’t a dark skinned fella or a transgender bint?
Think I might know as well...probably a blessing in disguise.
@@sirvikalcrusader3668 Imagine risking your life to defend another country's borders, when the UK's own borders are completely unprotected.
And your own government despises you for being too English.
@@raypurchase801 UK have no borders its a fucking island. Maybe you meant Belarus?
@@raypurchase801vote Brexit!
Not just the financial considerations, why would anyone want to join up, when the UK's history and culture is being rubbished constantly by those in charge. Other sectors are suffering similarly aswell.
We're basically the 51st state of the US at this point. British society has been Americanized at the expense of our own while having infinite Africans replacing us
Join the military efend your country , get sent to some middle eastern shit hole by some sneaky politician because he wants more influence in the region to gain favourable economical deals. Last time britain defended themselves was maybe in Falklands i mean its a stretch to say that islands belong to britain being so far away and what not , but british peopel do live there so they shoudnt be just pushed aside.
Ex SNCO Armourer 26 years experience, 16 years fast jet GR1/4, F3 and Hawk . So glad I've left that clusterfkuc behind me. So sorry for the boys and girls trying to keep the clown show running........sad times...
My son is doing a 60 mile walk for the Air Cadets this weekend. What shoukd I guide him to towards? He's a great kid. I'm struggling to know what to do.
advice him to emigrate out of this country, it’s fecked !!! Genuine suggestion. I’ve taken my family lock stock and barrel to France, that’s how convinced I am to what’s coming 😔
F the clown show!
@realMaverickBuckley if he wants to go aircrew, ask Tim. If he wants to work on aircraft engineering, I would definitely guide him towards going heavy (airframes or engines). Armourers are a diying bread.
@@realMaverickBuckleygo to the civilian sector. Better pay, better opportunities, better life. From a serving Flight Sergeant.
Ninety-one years old, been retired for over thirty years, having previously served thirty-eight. Ten years Fast-Jet and twenty-eight with Helos. A2 QHI, A1 GTI, three tours with CFS (H) having served world-wide incl Borneo and Aden. Tim. your account of the state of our beloved Service makes me weep.
Never having gained exalted rank, I served as Specialist Aircrew. Limited career but never found myself behind the mahogany desk (Flying the brown Bomber as slang would have it ) I was content to suck my oxygen through a rubber mask and fight the Gees as I pulled on the levers !
The insanity that we have witnessed in the upper levels is perplexing. These guys at the top are supposed to be the brightest and the best yet we at the lower levels can see the disaster unfolding year upon year. I can only conclude that they are under duress to follow a hidden agenda from a higher authority. Financial constraint must be a part of their dilemma but there seems to be something sinister going on.
I would like to know the full story of who, what and why this madness is being fostered.
Well done Tim. Your inciteful and well informed clips are a window on reality and if the senior Blokes at the top are not watching and taking serious note of your observations
then we are surely on the slide to oblivion.
Coudenhove Kallergie plan. You're welcome.
Long long time ago, someone had figured out, that the West can't be beaten militarily, so they went for subversion tactics instead. It's a Trojan War. I think Yuri Bezmenov is very close to the truth, though the old Soviet Union is by far not the only culprit.
Thank you for your service Sir. I'm the same but NHS. I've given 40 years to it. For what? Diversity politics aka Zionist politics.
Look it up. Conservative or Labour Friends of Israel. Every western country is ruled by them.
It's the biggest mystery - how are those who rule over us coerced? For coerced they surely are.
Ray tick box promotion over the past 20 years amended 1369s with red and green ink to satisfy diversity blah blah .......
Tried twice in the early 2000s to join the RAF as ATC or Fighter Controller. Failed phase 2 at Cranwell twice. I was heart broken, but looking back I am very glad my life went down a different path, especially seeing the state of it now.
I've learned that when I was told "no" in my life.....every time it was God looking out for me.
@@doctordetroit4339 recently in life I’ve thought the exact same 👍
Yes! I didn't see it at the time...but God looked after me
The new Catch-22. If someone wants to join up they are automatically excluded because only an insane person would want to join at this point.
Do not volunteer to help people who despise you and are trying to destroy your culture.
They’re excluded as the recruitment officers refer to the applicants as useless white males- karma is a biatch and now the RAF will pay the price
That’s ok… there’ll probably be a quota for insane people soon.
Hence diversity hires
I just wanted to learn how to fly....
This isn't just the military. I retired from the police 2 yrs ago. Within 8 months I was contacted (along with others) if I would be interested in rejoining? I thought about it for all of 10 seconds (60 yrs old, going back to working 12 hr shifts, nights dealing with f***wits,emm no thanks). Turns out the retention of new, young in service officers is a big problem. Burnout due to work load, salary,having to work nights, weekends... yes I kid you not, having to work nights ??? (did they not realise this before joining?) I absolutely loved my time in the force, but I don't think I last very long these days. I'd probably upset some scroat no doubt ! Love your updates Tim.
Thanks Gareth, I try and do what I can for British Policing but it seems to be a lost cause at the moment, much like the military.
Paying now for all those years rejecting the ex mil lads and blokes who understand you have to work hard for good things.
Recruiting uni grads and those from desired backgrounds that have had "you can be whatever you want to be" and "you are a victim" smashed into them throughout their school/uni life was always going to backfire
@@c00stospot on. I knew a few coppers who were former soldiers with NI tours under their belts. They were naturally great at their profession.
@@c00sto Yes, people don't appreciate things that are easy to attain.
When the police prioritise government targets and arresting poor, elderly people for making mean tweets over burglaries and catching bad guys, then they get what they deserve.
In the immortal words of Sgt Maj Williams "Oh dear, how sad, never mind"! Rest easy RAF.
To quote a line from a movie: "You can teach MONKEYS to fly better than that!"
Trouble is: That's actually what they're trying to do.
@@raypurchase801 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🙈🙉🙊
We need people like you running the defence of the nation, we need the Royal Air force now more than ever instead of the Leftwaffe. 👍
Salary of a air force pilot in France is roughly equivalent, but France does not seem to have the same recruitment issue, so clearly salary is not the only issue in the UK...
You Kiddin me!??
My dad was a Flt/Air Nav instructor with the BCATP....every member of my family served...including all the girls.
I'll hold off...
Bless em all!
£50K a year for a fighter pilot - £60K a year for a train driver!!!
Train drivers are left wing unionisers, and as a result they get good pay and good working conditions. Thats what conservatives don't understand.
Their pay is good, this pay is terrible.
Problem is train drivers mostly private companies.. anything government paid is toss. Local call centre to me earns 34k basic for handling calls 42 hour week. Im a fire fighter and just clear 36k with unsociable hours and un predictable work... will always be the same
I was a fireman for 11 years in glasgow, then a freight train driver in crewe for 20 years. I loved the fire service, but you have no idea the training involved being a train driver. Even when you cant see past the windscreen because its thick with fog, you are still flying around at 75 mph on freight and well over 125 mph on inter city trains. You better know your routes. No good crossing over a 20 mph section at a 100 mph. You will end up in a field somewhere. Its nothing like driving on a road. Ive done both jobs. Glasgow central was the busiest fire station in europe at the time. Trust me, there is way more to learn being a train driver and its more dangerous every day, if you make a mistake
@@derekking5386 i get you. However 2 different jobs completely.
My brother lives in New York and is on $200,000 a year as a train driver. This country is on its ass!
Air Ethiopia will be volunteering training pilots for the RAF
WTH
Air ethiopa has no passengers?
What you outline is why I, as an experienced rigger corporal with every authorisation under the sun, including class 1 structures, left the RAF and went to much more lucrative employment in the offshore oil and gas industry.
The force is to put it mildly fucked ! From MT drivers with HGV getting poached, ATC getting poached, 737 engineers 80k outside, AV techs for anything EV and renewables, C4I and cyber getting poached. Even Tesla is prioritising hiring forces people as service engineers as cars are computerised. Christ even the RPAS pilots are going as the UAV world is expanding at an incredible rate with NHS and offshore using them for everything.
As an EX-MT myself I just looked up the current salary range and its about £26k after 6 months service . I have a mate who Tesco trained to drive artics and he cleared £54k with overtime last year
@@richierich9761 yep, the bus companies here are offering £28k. A heating oil company 5kL small ADR tankers £40k. The Tesla service centres and mobile engineers £55k plus a car.
You urinate down someone's back and then you try to tell them it is raining. This is what happens.
That is actually a good description on what is going on in the whole western world. They do not try to tell us it is raining...they are telling us it is raining and if you say no they will come after you with police and medics.
thats one I had forgotten, and its a beautiful thing.
Hey Tim ! Helelnic Air Force WO here . We have our own pilot bleed prob here also (not like RAF bad though but getting there...) . Many young pilots try to get a posting in transport squadrons just to get their licences and hours up in order to get out at the minimum service time and get airline jobs ... Personally at 51 and after 29 years of service I cannot wait till retirement never to see and hear a damn acft again in my life ...
I feel the same, lol - hope you have a great retirement over there, take care!
"Migrant hotel costs rise to £8m a day, Home Office figures show" i think there is more money to be had in the hotel buisness
an update i heard £11m a day money well spent 😒😒
Try £15m.
There certainly is, all that taxpayers' money being funneled by a Tory government into the pockets of their chums by dismantling the asylum processing system so as to create a massive backlog.
And there is plenty of money for LTNs, Net-Zero, Diversity Equity and Inclusion, and all the Civil Service or non productive staff that such ideologies require.
Who do you think is going to pay for the migrants sent to Rwanda to live? The Rwandans? Us, you clown!
Read the book Vassal State. The UK does not control its own policy on anything.
The Zionists do.
Very informative Tim
In my view the more you earn the more you get taxed on in the uk .
I’m ex Raf and left the Airforce in 94 as a Cpl gas turbine tech .
I’m now a caa licenced aircraft engineer on a good salary .
I’ve been offered positions at 80,000 but after you work out the 40 percent tax and having 2 living expenses away from home it isn’t worth the hassle
Regards
Dave from Scotland
Totally agree Dave, you are correct and good to hear from you again
I left in ‘96 after 27 years and was an Engineering Technician Propulsion and never once heard of the trade Gas Turbine Tech. What is that, something to do with the Gas Board?
@@johnnunn8688
A sooty
@@davidmuir6849 I know what a sooty is, I was one for 27 years. My point is, I’ve never once heard that trade described as a Gas Turbine Tech. After all, it wasn’t only turbines sootys dealt with.
@@johnnunn8688 I was a sooty on Buccs and a sumpy on Shacks
I don't recall any pay cap after 2010 of even anything as low as 1%. As a police officer, we received 0% pay rises from 2009 until September 2023. I now feel almost as poor in real terms as I did when I joined up in 2005.
Until the police start policing they don't deserve a pay rise. Two tier event policing, ignoring real crimes to trawl the internet for non crime hate incidents (largely because vast amounts of cops are too fat to police the streets), covering up grape gangs, pandering to wokeness...yeah. no pay rise sounds fair to me.
Thanks Tim. It's great that there is a platform like this where someone as knowledgeable as you can call out the BS shovel that's been going on.
Absolutely spot on Tim
I left on a double your money deal and can wholeheartedly say it was the best thing I ever did. Flying in the raf was probably the best and the worst job I have ever had and after being offered a desk hold for 2 years or double your money to keep flying commercially, then it's a no-brainer. But that lead to me having the time and resources to set up my own company and more importantly have a life i.e. family, kids, stability and a little bit of enjoyment.
Excellent work, prioritise family, small business and home life!
A fascinating video that really exposes the poor state of our military. As well as the financial issues, i think we also have cultural issues where fewer young people would be willing to defend the UK. I served in the RAF from 18 -21.
My son is a 23yr old mechanic in major car dealership. He is on 36k base, plus gets bonuses on top of that. The pay in the military is rubbish in comparison when you conbsider what job they do.
Sad but true. Back in 2016 or 2017 I had a rare opportunity to raise similar concerns not only with my Boss (who had never been able or keen to do anything, I guess), but also in a meeting with both the Station Commander and AOC 2Gp. Perhaps unusually, my main issue was with rostering and safety, and apparent lack of interest in making sure we had enough instructional staff to maintain the training throughput to the front line. We were haemorrhaging pilots and instructors to the airlines, not because of pay, but because of terrible working conditions, a total unwillingness to value personnel, significant safety shortfalls, and transparent two-faced leadership. As you've mentioned in another video, I was literally told that 'if I didn't like where the train was going, I should get off.' I was a senior instructor, QFI, IRE with 16 years of experience. When I pointed out that this attitude was one of the reasons that we were heading for a major problem in the training system, I was told by AOC 2Gp that he could replace me tomorrow with a 19-year-old Typhoon pilot who would be all to happy to have such opportunities. Haha, good luck! At least I tried... Not surprisingly that was the final nail in the coffin for me... People always struggle to see why I would give up what I described as 'the best job in the world'. I suspect it's beyond repair by now, and even though I STILL think it's the best job in the world, there's no way I'd go back!
the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) had/has the same problem where pilots were struggling to maintain minimum flight hours due to budget constraints. Even jet fuel was being rationed. Along come airlines like Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin, etc. with pay rates 3x what they were getting in the Air Force, so they left.
Go woke get Broke ....or in this case get wrecked . Wigston and his traitors killed my beloved previous Service . Sad days and I don't know how this can now recover .
*With people like Tim steering it back, that's how* #Back2Basics
Wigston wasn't responsible for funding the RAF though. That's down to the last 14 years of tory government. Your stupid anti-woke slogan just shows you have been taken hook, line and sinker by the tory BS. All designed to deflect away from their own failings. Well done!
It's all part of the master plan. Cannot defeat us head on so they have to use subversion and eat away slowly in a battle of attrition against our institutions, Military, Police etc etc.
It’s not just the RAF. After my stint in the mob, I did 5 years on corporate jets at Oxford Airport. Handed a letter one morning, info-ing me I’m redundant from x-date, along with a bunch of others. (But not the only, sub-par, female 🤷♂️) By midday I was told could leave that day but on pay until leave date, so I said my goodbyes and went home to start job hunting on full pay. Phoned later that afternoon by manager, stating they made a mistake and would I please return. Two words, second word, ‘off’. 🤣😂 Tw@ts!
Brilliant, bunch of idiots!
Tim I’m very glad that you’ve started to touch upon the impacts that pay restraint has had, and is having on AF retention.
There is a greater need for armed forces pay restoration than that of the junior doctors.
I’m a SNCO. At a jobs fair last week I was offered roles paying DOUBLE my RAF salary. For an easier life!
The problem is unless you've got a consultant badge on they don't listen to anybody, even when they've got intelligent well-rounded genius is working for them
Same in all industries. They’d rather pay a consultant mega bucks to tell them exactly what you’ve been saying for years… they think we’re dumb though.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth” : Plato
I was not in the RAF but have relatives who were. It is shameful how it is being ruined. My father joined at the age of 18 and served on the fast rescue boats in WW2
I'm guessing the small print of the Hawk T2 QFI advert says "*but not you, Tim Davies"
It actually says 'Definitely, by Order of the King, NOT Tim Davies' lol
@@FastJetPerformance but they may still have you. #desperatetimes #needafightingattitude #worsethingshappenatsea 🤣🤣🤣
In 1976 I took a pay drop of approximately 50% to join the RAF as an officer. I was previously working as a builder’s labourer. A year later the RAF were called in over Christmas to cover for the Fire Service, who were striking for better pay. Many RAF personnel were on less money than they were, obviously with no right to strike. When I left in 1994 as an A2 QHI and QFI I immediately doubled my leaving salary. A few years later the RAF wrote to me inviting me back, to be paid on a daily rate as a high readiness reserve. I wrote back, advising them that I lived in the Far East and would need to fly back every month. I was offered 45p per mile motor mileage from Luton Airport to Odiham and they would abate my RAF pension! Total out of touch with reality. So nothing much changes.
I’m Australian, I was in the Australian army and deployed with the British to Afghanistan in 2007. The differences in our pays was staggering, to the point we were told not to share our pay slips. All militaries need to up there game and pay the soldiers what they deserve
Yeah that's why a lot of blokes are being poached from UK forces to oz forces now at the offer of doubled wages, sunshine and citizenship in a far richer & safer country. Especially now the oz forces have announced a planned growth in personnel numbers
Tim I just love your managerial style. Say it as it is. Brilliant.👍
Thank you, I base it on integrity foremost.
@@FastJetPerformance, which is exactly what is lacking, amongst the higher echelons.
This is a problem across the entire public sector. I saw a doctor interviewed recently who said that if pay continues to fall in real terms from the 2010 level doctors will just emigrate. It’s that simple.
This is not just an RAF issue. Sadly this is across the board from our military to our entire public services, the wrong people have been promoted and put in charge. My son is 15 and wants to join the military, I don’t have the heart to tell him that he is not wanted and will be treated as a second class citizen if he gets in. I despair at what is happening to our country.
Nothing much changed since I was serving in the 1970s and 80s, then. I was operational on Harriers and Tornados. I left in spring 1989 at my 38/16 point. Yes, I had to pay and do a few courses to get an ATPL but I virtually doubled my income when I joined BA. My subsequent earnings as an airline captain, pilot trainer and examiner dwarfed anything I would have been paid if I'd stayed in except perhaps if I'd made it all the way to CAS (I knew that wasn't going to happen). Constant domestic upheavals played a part too. Her indoors had had enough. And people who don't actually fly are not 'aviators'. Inclusive tosh.
Totally agree with all you've said, the RAF really has lost its way lately, unfortunately - at least we've had some good years.
The whole Military System is in the sh*t! My Grandson has been trying to join Army Signals Regiment (Poor Boy....I'm ex-RAF) for 3months. The communication from themr is dire. Still no attendance at any Meetings to assess his capability. As for RAF. Even the Aircraft seem unsuitable, especially binning the C130's.
TBH, that Golden Retriever was clearly NOT enjoying that attention.
The destruction of the pension scheme didn’t help. I was lucky and managed to stay on the old system but anyone joining now gets pretty much bugger all.
I agree. AFPS 15 is good but nothing in comparison to the previous schemes. The incentive to do 22 years / to have a career just isn't there. Also the postings are pretty grim now, I grew up in Germany as my dad was at Brüggen. My skill set means that I'd likely spend my working life in Birmingham if I rejoined the army as a regular.
@@karlj1564 I left years ago, as a triangle of Hampshire, Northern Germany and Suffolk didn’t fill me with joy.
Absolute crap - the AFPS15 pension is still one of the best pensions out there. Non-contributory 1/47th accumulation vs NHS (which is regarded as a good pension) would require you to contribute 13.5% of your wage (at similar salary talked about in this video) and accrues at a slower 1/54 rate.
@@Animosity6792 I wonder if the OP was compearing it to the older pension?
@@timjames2055 they may well have been and suspect they are probably referencing AFPS 75, but unless they have a time machine, what people got from a pension scheme which ended almost 20 years ago is pretty irrelevant. And to suggest AFPS 2015 offers "bugger all" is either stupid or ill informed. If someone went to the personal finance or FIRE reddits claiming that a Non-contributory DB pension accruing at 1/47th is "bugger all" and you'd get shouted out of there!
It wasn’t just the crap pay. People get fed up of being detached somewhere for a couple of months, getting home and finding that they’re going somewhere else in a couple of weeks for another couple of months. They want a home life too. I never begrudged jockeys the extra money because it’s a dangerous job. 999 times out of 1000 everything goes smoothly. But when it goes wrong, it goes wrong very quickly. They are trained and paid for that time. I saw one black fast jet pilot in the RAF in thirty years. Flying Jaguars at Coltishall. The RAF gave everyone the same opportunity as long as they met the requirements. There shouldn’t be lowering of standards for certain people, for the obvious reasons. It’s not rocket science.
It's also engineers who they can't retain.I left in 2008 having been an avionic technician, and do not regret that decision.
Bang on . This is just the sort of information that civilains need to see . When i served evryone siad go you must be loaded and as your well aware thats not the case at all. We serve because we want to serve and not for money per say. But pay a man what hes worth and you will get respect . Treat him well and he will give his all . Treat him with respect and he will respond.Treat him badley and with no repect and you have lost that person for ever. Great stream mate . 👍👍👍
This could be the greatest comeback since 2012 Man City. Dust off your uniform Sqn Ldr Davies…please!
My wife is already looking at your comment with utter disdain lol!
@@FastJetPerformance Ok, we shall make you a Wing Commander.
@@Mike-br8ztAfter a Staff Tour, natch!
British Aerospace some 35 years ago were paid £250,000 a year for each seconded Fast-Jet Pilot to Saudi Arabia - the Pilot received approximately £60,000 tax free of that (at that time as much as an Air Marshall) - but all the Pilots seconded were extremely experienced with other expensive qualifications such as Qualified Instructors - Weapons Instructors - Instrument Rating Examiners - etc. - and the amount of experience with say 2000 hours flying was in the order of another £80M - so no doubt the Royal Saudi Air Force saw £250,000 a year as an absolute bargain - as they could pay that for 16 years for the price of just training a pilot. But let's be clear it's not about money - the RAF has been totally dismantled.
When I joined the RAF (Regt), in 78, it wasn't for the money, it was more a vocation. Yes, the pay was crap has was most of the kit, but the comradeship and banter were amazing. Sure, some of the rules were draconian, but they were the rules . Who thought that at 18, I could live in Cyprus for three years and Germany with family, for seven (stamps or discount). When Op Gramby started, I was at Bruggen, and I knew then that we'd all trained to do what the RAF was being asked to do, throughout the Cold War, and so we did it brilliantly. The RAFs priorities these days seems not to be "in peace training for war" but worrying about DEI and ensuring that the so-called "Aviator s" are of the right colour, gender and that all know their pronouns! Who'd join that or want to stay?
Same here, Grandfather was in the Army, my father in the RAF, i joined the RAF. Cyprus, Berlin, Bruggen, all over the UK, excellent times, makes me sad to see whats happened.
Incidently this video below may interest you, a German guy taking a tour around Bruggen as it was after we all left !
th-cam.com/video/uujAZUsCYmM/w-d-xo.html
@AnthonyJones-vk6xq thanks mate but I avoid looking at these videos, too many memories of a great seven years at Bruggen, and sad to see that it's all gone, but thanks once again.
@@michaelbasford5109 No worries, i know what your saying......i think we are fortunate to have been in BFG when the armed forces were really at their peak !
I love your energy and clarity of thought and expression… honestly, £100k is not a lot of money for someone with the level of skill, experience and competence you cite… PWC’s analysis of the ‘value’ of such instructors is the way the business world calculates value; it’s not a moral issue, simply an economic issue. I also agree that we can’t afford to sacrifice the principles of meritocracy for a false understanding of equality… the focus of equality must be on equalising opportunity rather than on focusing on outcome… for me, the perfect example of equality of opportunity in my view is the Premier league, which also has a truly diverse work-force… the focus on performance in a brutally competitive environment will always generate the best results… if we aspire as a society to achieve higher levels of representation of women and ethnic minorities in the RAF, then the emphasis should be on encouraging the passionate engagement of people from these groups in the fields of aviation/engineering from a young age rather than from focusing on quotas or lower standards. BUT… we should also be willing to acknowledge the fact that people from different social classes/.cultures/genders have different interests and abilities… and lastly… my impression is that the predominant motivation of professionals who champion DEI issues in such blunt/numeric forms derives from their own self-promotion rather than a deep philosophical engagement with the issue of social equity itself… I’m a working class white male, an old-fashioned leftie, first person in family to go to university and now I’m a psychiatrist after studying medicine in my 30s. I may not be your typical viewer or supporter, but I agree whole-heartedly that our society must strive to embody meritocratic principles… these are horrifically undermined by focusing on superficial demographically-based identities. If we want greater ‘diversity’ representation in our fighter pilots, then 1) recognise the issue of social class within the analysis (this is actually the key ‘diversity’ issue). 2) increase the exposure of ‘target’ groups to the fundamental fields of interest required as an investment in the future… even go so far as to set up cadetships or sponsorship programmes in schools etc in order that people from ‘diverse’ backgrounds can meet the same standards as are currently expected. 3) view the ‘culture’ developed in the U.K. over the last 100+ years for technical excellence with a focus on aviation (based predominantly in middle and upper middle class white families and schools with a military tradition) as an asset which can be utilised to develop similar models in other social environments rather than being subject to criticism in a perniciously evolving cultural revolution…
Here for the labradors dude!!
Sorry, I made a mistake, it was a Retriever but my dog recognition is really bad!
@@FastJetPerformance Something flew over my head.
I am a New Zealander and my 21 year old son recently enquired about joining the RAF as a fast jet pilot. He has no desire to fly civilian airliners as I have for most of my working life. The RAF reply was not overly encouraging.
Be fair, to make up for the lower pay, we in the RAF didn’t have to pay income tax. (Many a civvy told me that.)
nowt changes over the years, different people same mistakes... I was 'deployed' on the Green Goddesses (with half a day's training) during the Fireman's strikes 1977/78 for their lack of pay rises. The media actually picked up on military pay in comparison to the Fireman & a Public outcry 'forced' pay rises for 'us' too. Unfortunately, our food/accom charges were raised in line & we ended up with around a £1 extra in our pockets per month! (some had less). 😡
When will this government realise skilled people employed in public establishments will not work for pay that is decreasing year on year. So we have the government of 'not enough'. Not enough RAF pilots, not enough teachers - my son walked out a year ago to drive a van and earn more money, not enough nurses or doctors, same for lorry drivers, builders, skilled tradesmen working for the local councils. The NHS took a year to arrange for a highly qualified mental health professional to take up a post because of a shortage of admin staff who kept leaving so the process had to restart. The job was to clear the backlog waiting list as quickly is possible.
I'm 57 and very good with a bass broom, I wonder if they have a possible position for me..Those runways don't clean themselves. Also keen and willing to upgrade to space cadet.
This is part of a much wider problem. As a nation we have been living beyond our means for decades, running a deficit and borrowing the difference has become the norm, it is unsustainable. The state is running out of options, the money isn't there, individuals can earn much more in the private sector. We're fucked. Now add uncontrolled immigration on top of that, and contrary to the belief in some quarters they don't all work in 'our' NHS, all to often they don't work at all, and then they import their non working dependents. We're doubly fucked. How depressing.
Well said. What on Earth has happened to this once fine military service?
Is it because there's less of a service ethos as more amd more of what the RAF does has been out-sourced to private contractors? The RAF, part of the Babcock group.
110% spot on again boss Timbo! T2 civ engineer side with well know big lol company is also in haemorrhage mode, the chat is that a certain airline parts manufacturer just over the border is thinking of supplying a bus from island bridge to ferry workers as it would attract more from T2
That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest - hope all is well with you otherwise!
The moment it was enforced that the RAF must be DEI included. The Force Left in less than 4weeks. It Will take 10 years + to get this experience and skill qualities back in the RAF.
I really dont know how they will fix this, During the 90s while I was at School, I was in the Air Training Corps, I LOVED it, spent as much time as I could doing it and did all the flying I could. I went so often, I could (with an RAF instructor) Take off, Barrel roll, loops etc, I could fly the pattern, break downwind and land. Never went Solo but was encouraged to learn privately. As I lived in a single parent household, there was no way I could continue with private tuition. Did RAF Coltishall as summer camp, when the Jaguars were in service and the cemented me wanting to be a Fast Jet Pilot. Left the ATC at 18 and applied at our careers office. Im not brilliant at Maths, but did OK above C in everything. I was basically told forget it, my ATC stuff was irrelevant even my flight training logs. I was advised to go RAF Regt or the Army. My point is that time is that it was best of the best getting in, which I totally get, but over the years that's bit the RAF in the butt as the best of the best are leaving senior flying posts and there is no one coming up behind them. Throw in all this diversity and woke bullshit and here we are. We cant attract young people, and the pay (I didn't know they got 50k) is bad - I get almost that working in IT in factory up north. How do we go forward?
Pretty much what happened to me, around the same time. Went full ham on ATC, took every opportunity to get in the air on gliders and Chipmunks. Volunteered for absolutely sodding everything. Got absolutely nowhere at 18 in '94 - although Options For Change was a factor by then. Upon leaving Uni in 97 I joined Minolta as a copier salesman, my basic and commission on good year was double that of a qualified Flt Lt...
Curiously, a few years later an old secondary school classmate joined. Had no interest in planes or anything when we were at school, and went into car sales after finishing college. Last I spoke to him, he'd done a turn in the back of Tornados, then got himself upgraded to flying Nimrods in circles over the North Sea for a bit, and that was basically it for his career. Fully qualified, hardly ever flew in all the time he was in.
The problem is that Price Waterhouse Cooper can do arithmetic, not politics!
Unite the Union found out that whoever drew up the Babcock bid for the DSG Land Contract extension had no provision for pay rises in it. They wonder why they can't get staff and others are leaving !
Handled with aplomb Sir… I became aware of this potential time-bomb as early as 2001 while instructing Airmen Aircrew at RAF College Cranwell. And from memory I was earning around £56K including flying pay as a Flight Sergeant. My previous fixed-wing tour, it was possible to add a further £3-4K in allowances.
Yet there are serving Flight Sergeants who don’t even earn that over two decades later. The RAF is facing a crisis and PAY is at the core of the problem.
Well said that man
Both French and German fighter pilots are each being paid (when rounded) 100000 Euros! Why is it different for our pilots?
Makes you wondering how they can afford it when their budgets are less, but there have far more active fighter jets than the RAF.
They’ve worked out it’s cheaper to retain than it is to train. Simples. We’ll eventually figure this out when it’s too late.
Is that an average for all pilots or pay for newly qualified pilots?
Because our thicko government gives money away hand over fist to gangster foreign regimes and the Dr's and solicitors crossing the Channel...thus there is no money left over for the things that really matter ie properly funded defence.
@@TimE-er1kn I don't know the breakdown for the air forces, but the German defence spending this year is actually 12 BIO Pounds higher than the UK:
- German defence spending 2024: 72 BIO Euro
- UK defence spending 2024: 51 BIO Pounds = 60 BIO Euro
Both countries will spend 2.1% of GDP, Germany admittedly for the first time. German Fighter pilots must commit to 16 years service. Their top salary grade A15 spans 5773 Euros (4942 Pounds) to 7251 Euros (6207 Pounds) per month. As state employees with the status of Beamte (equivalent to civil servants), they don't have to pay into the social security system, only income tax is deducted. Their net income is therefore higher than for a non-state employee on the same salary.
Well said !
The interwar governments had just the same short sighted view of defence. Only then it was much faster to train pilots! We have had a much longer period of relative peace as well so no one has the concept of war status any more.
Former FJ, left 25 years ago, before the real rot got going. Found your channel by accident and echo what you say about the RAF. hung up my flying boots, vowed never to set foot in a cockpit ever again, had the alcoholic dependence, divorced, lost everything then got it slowly back. Still angry with the way the military cuts you off when you leave, no pointers, no help when things are going dark. Told my kids not to ever join up with a service that is no longer recognisable or a government that cares more about everyone living outside of this island. Eventually got back into the cockpit when a friend took me to a gliding club, best therapy out there, stopped doing all the bad stuff.
They the polititians, probably believe that thousands of drone pilots will be the answer Tim. Expendable , cheep and leathal.
They could work from home but the RAF would probably make them pay for they own Wi-Fi to fly the drone.
A fair amount of this problem dates back to the demise of Hamble in the '80s, forcing airlines to begin poaching pilots from the RAF.
At the 9 1/2 year point I was a T-38 instructor in 1988 when the USAF was bleeding pilots. Willing to stay in but the USAF system was so rule-bound they were unwilling to work with someone willing to stay in. I wasn’t in for the paycheck, I liked the service even with all the BS. They dropped orders on my desk and it was “take it or leave it”, you have 7 days.
Since then it appears the AF hasn’t learned any lessons on retaining people.
Your saying you wanted to stay in but at the same base, doing the same job but the USAF wanted to shove you somewhere else?
Not quite. Once you were in a major command (MAC,TAC,SAC) after pilot training you were in that command for life. I was willing to extend my non-volunteer tour with Training Command for a year, or a non-flying position in an overseas command post like S. Korea, or an exchange tour overseas. My contemporaries in my parent command were all instructor pilots in a weapon system and I would come back as a re-qualifying Aircraft Commander... I had fallen behind my AF contemporaries. The FB-111 was my preferred option, but it was beginning to be phased out and they weren’t putting anyone in the schoolhouse pipeline. Similar story with the SR-71. If I returned as an aircraft commander in my prior weapon system I was promised one of my first five bases of choice out of nine bases. But when I called them to declare my preferences, they proceeded to steer me away from them, "I have six guys going there, I have five guys going there...". HQ/SAC-Rated Assignments was livid when I informed them the Manpower Personnel Center weren't following SAC assignment policies that had previously been agreed to. The opportunities that I had believed would be open...weren't.
If I rock up, Monday morning, no financial or time barriers and said I want to fly a jet, how long until you would give me the keys and say do a low fly mission? How many out of a class of 30 ever make it to the runway?
Kinda hard to go back in on a crap salary, only to find T2s unavailable because they have F35 style avail rates. Sitting round the naffy with cups of tea, but no flight time.
That being said. IMHO - the entire flight training program, going back YEARS, and its high cost, was strung out and stretched due to lack of seats, planes, flight time. If we really go to war, the training length of time would shorten, the costs would be lower, and the time from start of training to squadron would be cut. Course for that to happen, planes would need to be rolling of a production line.
On a side note. I believe Mr Davies and his flight program could take a pathway for the MOD to a certain level, and be accessible, and at potentially more sensible costs wise for parts of a training program.
As for the RAF, unless heads roll and a massive shift in the woke toxic failure takes place, I see very little changing.
I'll laugh my bollocks off if they offer you a slot Tim. 😂
If they do, I’ll be laughing my bollocks off too, at THEM!
Tim, Join Reform, you would soon be the Defence advisor that is needed! From an ex-Rockape
A similar theme amongst controllers unfortunately it simply doesn’t get the attention or adverts like pilots but nothing is being done. I don’t see a fix unless a package is offered now. We are being asked to do more with less for less than our civil counterparts, the perks of the RAF simply aren’t there anymore.
Well said Tim 👍
Trade SNCO's have a similar story, huge investment to train (personally 4 years trade school training, and 3 year OTJ) to become a para-engineer. The pay is frozen during covid and then under performs inflation by a mile. Meanwhile defence contractors are getting paid $1000's per day, and most produce nothing.
We don't have a government. Instead we have businessman. And that's the problem.
No we have a thief , Trump was a businessmen and US flourished for 4 years!! Look.at US under Biden you cant even recognise the place
Well said mate. saw you other one too. All the Best of.
I and others warned the armed forces careers service that their strategy was wrong ; no one listened then and no one is listening now…
Agreed.
A 3% increase in defence spending wouldn't cover paying personnel a decent wage, let alone re-equipping the forces.
It's a good job that Rishi has committed to 2.5% by 2030 then!
I'd bet Kier revises it down.
I enjoy your vids as an ex airman left in the early 90's , YTS or YOP ran when i served and you had people working long long shifts for 25 pounds a week and they paid food and accommodation charges as well, so take home was about 10 quid, sub standard accommodation was rife, pay rises were accompanied by raises in food and accommodation charges, govts just dont like spending on its core assets PEOPLE. Current leadership are useless
I joined the RAF in Jan 1990 its manpower was bigger then than the Army is now. Let that sink in....
Your absolutely correct it [DEI] is eroding the foundations of the military across the board it's not just the AF. when one sees the best assignments, promotiontions and everything else passed along to people that haven't earned it -that "it" reverberates throughout the system and military people as a group have memories like elephants. Some of the worst people I worked for in the Army were women that had been promoted two grades above their potential. You can forgive but you will never forget.
Absolutely right Tim....and then there is the little matter of pensions...
Hey, I’m 53 and I’ve always wanted to fly an aircraft. My maths and English is dreadful but I’ve got no doubt you can teach me probably in a couple of months.😂
To expand on the red and black theme . The two nurses stood on the grass at the Kennedy shooting where the car stopped , Red and Black coats . The security service guy Gareth Williams , found zipped up in a sports bag . The bag was red and black . The motorbike in the film Top Gun . " We were inverted " - big line from the film . He a Scientologist . . .
Train drivers are £50000 plus and want more . It's shocking that fast jet pilots are on similar wage 😳
Not really. Responsibility of a train driver is quite significant.
I have agency drivers earning high 50's LGV C E nights, The forces pay rate is an absolute joke not that all Aviation Jobs pay well, FO 737 Midlands Freight being advertised under 40k 🤣
@@bluerallyes2 flying a Frontline jet probably worth more than a train and can do slot more damage. Should be on double .
@Lookup2Wakeup 😂
@@Mrtrc33 having worked on frontline jets for the past 35 years in the RAF, MOD and Industry I’d say costs are broadly comparable for the advanced trainers to a Pendolino. Responsibilities in peacetime are comparable too I’d say. 2 crew for the Hawk with seat and responsibilities for those on the ground vs a few hundred passengers being pulled along. Just my opinion of course.
*2.5% of GDP is what we should've been spending for the last 20 years, but haven't, this is EXACTLY Trump's beef, side note; nice pitch, good luck Tim* 👌
We spend the money but inflation means the money doesn't buy as much men/kit/vehicles.
@@Daimo83 *We don't spend the money, never have* 😉
One of the biggest detriments to the RAF is that it only has Officers as pilots, unlike the USAF which has SNCOs & Warrant Officers as pilots - many far better than the Office class.
Didn't it used to be the other way round?
The USAF definitely does not have NCOs/Warrants as pilots, it hasn’t in decades.
There’s a small cadre of enlisted RPA pilots, but the manned aircraft are all officers as pilots.
@@paddyohenry6428 Pay me no mind. out of date info here. Ref. to WWII, Flight sergeant pilots RAF USAAF pilots are commissioned officers. I know even changed at the end of WWII. Like I say, just ignore my dumb ignorant ass.
I remember member a ground crew walking up to pilot and saying, "ls it difficult to do a test flight"
Before the pilot could answer, another member of the ground crew said" Don't be stupid, if it was difficult, they would get us to do it".
I’ve got over an hours experience in a Cessna single engine plane so I reckon a hawk would be a doddle to fly.
Very true, flying fast jets is a piece of piss for the first 500 milliseconds !!!!
@@AnthonyJones-vk6xq Surely it’s just like any plane. You put the power on to take off and lessen power to stop. Pull the stick back to go up and forward to go down. Even a thicky could do that.
@@stableianF1oracle Except in a car you are dealing with moving in 2 dimensions, in a aircraft you have 3 to deal with, its more complicated than you realise.
@@AnthonyJones-vk6xq That might explain why I crashed the plane on landing. How was I to know the wheels had to come down.
@@stableianF1oracle Pilots say 'any landing you can walk away from is a good landing' !!!
The RAF never learn. My father (30 odd years fast jets then ATC)left the RAF in the 80s for a 3 year contract with the Sultan of Oman. He was persuaded back in after his time in Oman, because of shortage of skills, until he retired at 55. Now here we go again! He’s 90 with dementia now, so perhaps they’ll have him back again!
The RAF, along with the other services has been catastrophically let down by successive governments as well as the hierarchy of the MOD. As an x serviceman I feel for all the remaining service people who have to work with such self-seeking career hogging buffoons
Curious if -
1) the T&C's were right for rejoining as a QFI on Hawk/Texan would you rejoin?
2) With the history between you and the RAF - would they offer you a contract?
1) Probably not
2) Let's find out, lol!
I'd not previously given thought to how much a pilot flying fast jets would earn in the RAF, but given the nature of the role, and the cost of the hardware they're in charge of, I would have guessed around £80,000 for newly qualified and rising as they gained experience and rank. To learn pilots earn £50,000 was an eye opener. The MOD loves budgeting for new toys but you need to pay people at a level that respects their abilities, skills and experience. What's more demanding, flying a commercial jet or flying in the military. I would argue the latter and the pay should reflect that.
These idiots on Ticktock make more than a fast jet pilot........
While I accept coming a good second, is not an exceptable in any conflict.
Privatisation & very expensive acquisitions haven't helped.
Sometimes alternatives would have been more cost effective.
Needless to say experienced military personnel are more valuable than private consortiums
Should raise the age cap for recruitment for pilot role by about 5-10 years imo
It was lowered to 23 purely because of how long the training takes-I was one of the unlucky ones that got caught out. It used to be 26
@@SworBeyE16 yeah i’m aware but my understanding is that there are some active duty fast jet guys that are a bit older than you would expect. And maybe unreasonable but older recruits could be placed onto other aircraft and allow some younger talent, where applicable, get put onto the fast jet role
@@scott745 It’s more the fact that it can take up to 10 years to train fast jet pilots. You could have someone join at 23 and not finish OCU until they’re into their 30s, by which point they’re settled down with a family. It’s a very bad situation
@@scott745 The older guys are the ones who should be QFIs and weapons instructors, but there’s such a shortage that those who should be instructors are on the frontline
@@SworBeyE16 doesnt this just kinda prove my point? Yeah sure they should be but are they any less capable?