As Kolento showed, if you know you killed the opponent because the end turn button won't turn green, it's quicker just to restart hearthstone; the server has already counted your victory and changed your rank accordingly.
That mage sacrificed themselves so others on the ladder had a chance to climb. For every shudderwock shaman you play against, it means someone else dosen't have to. We must band together and fight this menace of a deck!
I'm not sure that Bliz understood how people are building these decks when they changed Shudderwock. You don't play one Shudderwock with 30 battlecries, you play 30 Shudderwocks with 5-8 battlecries each. Doubling the battlecry speed helped, but I don't think limiting the battlecries to 20 did anything.
Chad they wernt nerfing it and yes blizzard isn't total idiots they have game data it was just a precaution to stop shudder from taking up an entire turn
Grant Miller just because something is annoying doesnt mean its broken and needs to be annihilated also they would be fine nerfing it they have nerfed cards that deserved it in the past shudderwock isnt one of them
Yeah. There were legitimately people who didn't put things like life drinker in there and just a bunch of freezes and heals and stuff thats sole purpose was to make every single one of their own turns take 20 years and make it so anything you COULD do on your turn, if anything, was unlikely if not impossible to win the game with. Their entire goal was just to waste your time and make you concede or walk away. their goal wasn't to nerf shudderwok, it was to stop bullies. And they succeeded. Like even if this took a while, firebats battlecries were indeed slowly making the game progress, not grind to an infinite halt. it was slow, but it WAS progress. its a slow card that does require a speed boost (like, just fuck the animations imo. in the sidebar you can show every battlecry that triggered and in what order so the opponent doesn't go "wait, wtf happened and why is his hand full all of a sudden?". but we dont need to see the entire thing every freaking time) AND they should make a card that can interact with the opponents hand ala dirty rat. It doesn't need a nerf, but it does need to be addressed.
8:31 "I guess he has like .00000001% to win, cuz they can all break" well no, they can't if the shudderwocks created by the first 1mana aren't bounced by the first grumble effect, they'll get bounced by the second.
Actually, there were 6 chain gang triggers, so his board would be full and he wouldn't be able to play another shudderwock. So if his first shudderwock grumbled first, the mage would've gotten another turn
hmm I see 4 chain gang, not 6 (see 5:55) but yeah if it was 6 there would be 14% chance that the mage lives the turn I have a hard time finding any way for the mage to win tho
Tremblay343 I have won once at that point, only because he was 15 cards ahead in fatigue and I milled/burned the Lifedrinker with Rin. It took 40 minutes from the time he ran out of cards, but I would do it again to say fuck the otk.
Callum Hayes 40 minutes from the time he ran out of cards. Shudderwock literally allows that to happen in like 4 turns....especially if he is referring to pre shudderwok nerf
i thought it was tier 1 (or close) right now... And yea that deck can only get better with future expansions :/ Kinda sad that such a time wasting strategy is an optimal one. Time wasting in a sense that it breaks the cap of how long a turn lasts and just goes on and on
The only problem is that Shaman spells are absolute garbage. Next expansion will greatly reduce the garbage percentage that dominates the basic set of Shaman. If they make another overload reduction card, then Shaman will be tier 0.
I don't see how its terribly different from combo mage, albeit you don't have to hold many cards, you still lose if you let the opponent live too long.
One fun thing for everybody to look forward to--for the next year, every good battlecry in each expansion only adds to this nonsense and makes Shudderwock even more powerful. This includes the upcoming "omega" battlecries that only trigger at 10-mana but do something stupid (e.g. the +10 attack one already revealed)
Bathroom break or something probably, they did take a second to actually do anything on their next turn and you can tell when when it's finally over from across the room due to the extremely loud enter play spam stopping. I mean, obviously you should just concede in that spot for sure, but maybe they really had to pee and were feeling really lucky afterward.
I get that its a joke and everything and that shudderwok is the new hotness to get riled up about...but he became world champion partially by abusing one of the most broken cards to be made. You don't get to become a top player by choosing to not play good decks XD. The factt hat he's sucha high level player shows that he was ALWAYS on the darkside
To be fair, you can tell if you lose or not when the first Shudderwock goes off. That game would have been half as long if the opponent had just conceded once 'Wock Grumble'd himself back.
Yeah the red panda exhibit and the tiger exhibit at the Detroit zoo are getting really cool improvements currently so the red pandas aren't in there right now :(
The first time i heard the shudderwok i thought he said "A choice that binds" for some reason, i misheard the second part as well but i can't remember what i thought it said
I like shudderwolk as a card but the combo deck is just dumb, it is a build around ultimate value card which I would love to play with, which is super fun to have go off in like an elemental deck to see if it kills you from random blazecallers and maybe pick up some healing from Kalimos, maybe an infinite Fatigue deck like dead man’s hand, with it acting as a deck filler and board clear, it is a flexible card that no one plays with for anything other than the broken combo which is just easier to set up since it wins you the game making the deck list of just card draw board clears and a few choice battlecries actually viable against control decks like big spell mage or fatigue warlock, which have like 20% chances to win in the matchup, instead of having to actually think about which battlecries you need in a matchup to be able to play shudderwalk they spend a game stalling and just abuse the card as their only win condition making it not fun to play against when the card itself could easily be a fun yoog effect or just a value play which can deal with the board effectively while filling your deck and hand, and making hagatha control viable.
There wasn’t any need for it the go infinite, or even just have a card printed which allowed infinite damage and healing but that is the best way to abuse the card, and probably a dumb idea to release shudderwalk when in standard both grumble and life drinker are available, making things like the new epic actually worthless, unlike in control guldan where it was actually a tech card, like how shadow reaper anduin’s hero power wasn’t just meant for controlling the board, but that aspect was just complete ignored because of a giant burst combo that the card supported, where a control deck would run more value generation or board clears and instead the deck just ran a combo in a control deck
They both just kind of ignore the chances of an actually control deck which is somewhat fair, and instead only were really played for the damage they let you do
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. “Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!” He took his vorpal sword in hand: Long time the manxome foe he sought- So rested he by the Tumtum tree, And stood awhile in thought. And as in uffish thought he stood, The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, Came whiffling through the tulgey wood, And burbled as it came! One, two! One, two! And through and through The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head He went galumphing back. “And hast thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!” He chortled in his joy. ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe.
I don't see what's wrong with playing Shudderwock over any other netdeck. If you're playing on ranked ladder, you've gotta expect most people don't have the time or knowledge to build their own decks.
So I get that the non-combo version of this deck has become standard with the plan to just win through infinite value, healing and burst but I'm still a bit confused as to why this is works better than other versions of shudderwock. If Grumble triggers first you instantly lose, right?* So normally that's a 33% for your 9-drop to fail? Even here where he put in extra work to improve the odds it still had a 20% chance to fail. Apparently it's been seen as an acceptable fail rate but how exactly, that seems extremely high for the only thing your deck is designed to do. The old murmuring versions required a bit more setup but had a 0% fail rate and it's not like they were that much more clunky than this version. So what am I missing? *Well, obviously summoning three 6/6s at once will sometimes win but as a control deck that does little else until that point those times are probably rare, right?
It’s just that ladder play is different. You’re just trying to maximize your win/loss ratios rather than optimize your combos. It’s sort of why it’s okay to run a deck that just loses 100% of the time against another deck, even if that other deck is being run. The full combo probably just isn’t as consistent.
Zola - Grumble gives you a 1 mana failsafe if grumble triggers first of the shudderwock. Or if you run Murmuring, then Murmuring - Grumble gives you a 1 mana murmuring to play before the shudderwock to make sure it will succeed. This is of course if you find you have the time to wait on that card before you thin your deck out with Hemet to rush for the combo.
Nope. If you play shudderwock and zola is the first one that triggers it will not make a golden copy of anything since it can't copy itself.. Have you ever tried playing shudderwock? And the reason you want a 1 mana zola is to make sure you can play it on the same turn as you play the shudderwock. If you play the shudderwock, and the zola and grumble triggers before a saronite chain gang, you sit there with some copies of shudderwock on board and none on hand. If you can't play a zola the same turn then you risk running the chance all of them will get cleared before it's your turn again.
Why doesn't blizzard nerf the crap out of shudderwock... Just increase the mana cost by 2 so it'll be balanced. Do they not want to refund dust or something? Shudderwock shaman is on the level of freeze mage and quest rogue in terms of interaction.
@AllenDariantLopez: BUT ITS POPULAR AND BEATS THE DECK THAT I LIKE TO PLAY! ITS EVIL! That said we really do need another dirty rat style card to interact with the opponents hand. i'm not against combo decks, I don't hate shudderwok, but there should be a way to beat them than "win before they do their combo". I have no problems with shudderwok, just blizzards lack of printing combo counterplay even though they ALWAYS have a secret hating card in standard at any given time ever since they made kezan mystic and have a weapon hater and murloc hater in classic. Hopefully next set will have something to fuck with minions in the opponents hand.
Pretty much the worst designed card ever in any card game i played atleast.. not only did they print the most uninteractive win condition ever they gave it the worst sound and animation ever too. Am i the only one who interprets shudderwock as ben brode saying "fuck this game im going to go work on something else"?
My jaws that HEY EVERYONE
My claws that GET IN HERE
Remember when they fixed the animation issue?
Do Da La La La When? It needs to be 6x faster.
Grant Miller I think the shudderwok battlecry should be instant, cut the animations out entirely
Mac Donalds i think blizzard should erase the card and fire the people who designed it
Do Da La La La Yeah, me neither
TheMega Skeeter but it's so fun to play with and extremely balanced
As Kolento showed, if you know you killed the opponent because the end turn button won't turn green, it's quicker just to restart hearthstone; the server has already counted your victory and changed your rank accordingly.
That mage sacrificed themselves so others on the ladder had a chance to climb. For every shudderwock shaman you play against, it means someone else dosen't have to. We must band together and fight this menace of a deck!
I'm not sure that Bliz understood how people are building these decks when they changed Shudderwock. You don't play one Shudderwock with 30 battlecries, you play 30 Shudderwocks with 5-8 battlecries each. Doubling the battlecry speed helped, but I don't think limiting the battlecries to 20 did anything.
Chad They don't want to nerf it to oblivion becauseit makes people that crafted it feel bad. But it needs to go the way of warsong commander.
Chad they wernt nerfing it and yes blizzard isn't total idiots they have game data it was just a precaution to stop shudder from taking up an entire turn
Grant Miller just because something is annoying doesnt mean its broken and needs to be annihilated also they would be fine nerfing it they have nerfed cards that deserved it in the past shudderwock isnt one of them
20 battlecry limit is there just because there were assholes who actually put full deck of battlecries just to waste time of the opponents
Yeah. There were legitimately people who didn't put things like life drinker in there and just a bunch of freezes and heals and stuff thats sole purpose was to make every single one of their own turns take 20 years and make it so anything you COULD do on your turn, if anything, was unlikely if not impossible to win the game with. Their entire goal was just to waste your time and make you concede or walk away. their goal wasn't to nerf shudderwok, it was to stop bullies. And they succeeded. Like even if this took a while, firebats battlecries were indeed slowly making the game progress, not grind to an infinite halt. it was slow, but it WAS progress.
its a slow card that does require a speed boost (like, just fuck the animations imo. in the sidebar you can show every battlecry that triggered and in what order so the opponent doesn't go "wait, wtf happened and why is his hand full all of a sudden?". but we dont need to see the entire thing every freaking time) AND they should make a card that can interact with the opponents hand ala dirty rat. It doesn't need a nerf, but it does need to be addressed.
Hmm, yes, this is certainly intended play.
Suckerwock proves just because you can add something to your digital card game doesn’t mean you should add something to your digital card game.
8:31 "I guess he has like .00000001% to win, cuz they can all break"
well no, they can't
if the shudderwocks created by the first 1mana aren't bounced by the first grumble effect, they'll get bounced by the second.
Actually, there were 6 chain gang triggers, so his board would be full and he wouldn't be able to play another shudderwock. So if his first shudderwock grumbled first, the mage would've gotten another turn
hmm I see 4 chain gang, not 6 (see 5:55)
but yeah if it was 6 there would be 14% chance that the mage lives the turn
I have a hard time finding any way for the mage to win tho
this is why I started playing howlfiend+treachery combo again. this and hadronox druid.
Kyle Knelsen and togwaggle
I will play against shudderwok decks until they start going off, then I just insta concede. This is obnoxious.
Tremblay343 I have won once at that point, only because he was 15 cards ahead in fatigue and I milled/burned the Lifedrinker with Rin. It took 40 minutes from the time he ran out of cards, but I would do it again to say fuck the otk.
Grant Miller I mean, I was with your story until the last part. No deck fan survive 40 minutes in fatigue 😂 What a load of BS
DaneHS made a armour version that could. But it is wild and I'm guessing not what Grant Miller faced.
Callum Hayes 40 minutes from the time he ran out of cards. Shudderwock literally allows that to happen in like 4 turns....especially if he is referring to pre shudderwok nerf
Lol i bet you play aggro if you think this shit isnt entertaining
Firebat has such a way with words its no wonder he's a successful streamer.....
Skullbringer hes fucking boring thats it
He seems to have a deep knowledge of the game and doesn’t complain every two seconds *coughKrippcough* so that’s pretty nice.
fun and interactive
Never before will I miss Dirty Rat and Deathlord then when Shaman gets better control support and Shudderwock becomes tier 1. :(
i thought it was tier 1 (or close) right now... And yea that deck can only get better with future expansions :/ Kinda sad that such a time wasting strategy is an optimal one. Time wasting in a sense that it breaks the cap of how long a turn lasts and just goes on and on
The only problem is that Shaman spells are absolute garbage. Next expansion will greatly reduce the garbage percentage that dominates the basic set of Shaman. If they make another overload reduction card, then Shaman will be tier 0.
Nah they just need to implement 'when you turn ends, IT ENDS. STOP all interactions and card effects from playing'.
decks like this ruin hearthstone :(
I don't see how its terribly different from combo mage, albeit you don't have to hold many cards, you still lose if you let the opponent live too long.
I think His jaws bites
and His claw catches
Not sure, need more matches..
One fun thing for everybody to look forward to--for the next year, every good battlecry in each expansion only adds to this nonsense and makes Shudderwock even more powerful. This includes the upcoming "omega" battlecries that only trigger at 10-mana but do something stupid (e.g. the +10 attack one already revealed)
my otter comment made it onto youtube aww yeah 2:34
Grats!
I'd like to thank the academy
How in the hell are you that Mage and sit through like literally 15 minutes of that?
Bathroom break or something probably, they did take a second to actually do anything on their next turn and you can tell when when it's finally over from across the room due to the extremely loud enter play spam stopping. I mean, obviously you should just concede in that spot for sure, but maybe they really had to pee and were feeling really lucky afterward.
I've done it before on mobile while watching tv or something and just set the phone down. Kind of a "don't blame me, you chose to play the deck :)"
Firebat's editor busting out the grade A material yet again. Absolutely love your work
FIREBAT YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! TO BRING ORDER TO THE UNIVERSE NOT JOIN THE DARK SIDE!
I get that its a joke and everything and that shudderwok is the new hotness to get riled up about...but he became world champion partially by abusing one of the most broken cards to be made. You don't get to become a top player by choosing to not play good decks XD. The factt hat he's sucha high level player shows that he was ALWAYS on the darkside
general misquoti!
you got the quote wrong
"YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID YOU'D DESTROY THE SITH NOT JOIN THEM"
Red Pandas on Vacation is my band's name.
playing shudderwock deck as im watching this video is so fucking funny, just hearing his voiceline over and over absolute chaos
he just WOCKED away OMEGALUL
10/10 on the editing, editor. Keep it up boi :)
To be fair, you can tell if you lose or not when the first Shudderwock goes off. That game would have been half as long if the opponent had just conceded once 'Wock Grumble'd himself back.
Perfectly Balanced....as all things should be.
My jaws that YOU WERE
My claws that THE CHOSEN ONE
YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM!
Yeah the red panda exhibit and the tiger exhibit at the Detroit zoo are getting really cool improvements currently so the red pandas aren't in there right now :(
"fun and interactive"
kinda funny that theyre about to announce a new expansion and its only now bats is on a shudderwock kick
The Hooru wear many jaws.
Today was the first time I heard the attack audio for Shudderwock.
R.I.P opponent died of old age :(
My Jaws that BITE, My Claws that CATCH
The first time i heard the shudderwok i thought he said "A choice that binds" for some reason, i misheard the second part as well but i can't remember what i thought it said
7:30 i was in tears
mY JaWS tHaT bItE
mY cLawS tHaT caTcH
"Shudderwock is fun and interactive. Just like Jade Idol (which was my creation)" - Mike Donais
How can a single man be so sadistic.
Shudderwock was my free legendary and I love him
**Day 1 PTSD triggers**
you can grumble zola and then later zola your actual shudderwock if you miss??
Best Editor NA
If the enemy is dead you can just ctrl f4 and you wont need to reconnect for the win
LOUUUUDDD NOISES!
I like shudderwolk as a card but the combo deck is just dumb, it is a build around ultimate value card which I would love to play with, which is super fun to have go off in like an elemental deck to see if it kills you from random blazecallers and maybe pick up some healing from Kalimos, maybe an infinite Fatigue deck like dead man’s hand, with it acting as a deck filler and board clear, it is a flexible card that no one plays with for anything other than the broken combo which is just easier to set up since it wins you the game making the deck list of just card draw board clears and a few choice battlecries actually viable against control decks like big spell mage or fatigue warlock, which have like 20% chances to win in the matchup, instead of having to actually think about which battlecries you need in a matchup to be able to play shudderwalk they spend a game stalling and just abuse the card as their only win condition making it not fun to play against when the card itself could easily be a fun yoog effect or just a value play which can deal with the board effectively while filling your deck and hand, and making hagatha control viable.
There wasn’t any need for it the go infinite, or even just have a card printed which allowed infinite damage and healing but that is the best way to abuse the card, and probably a dumb idea to release shudderwalk when in standard both grumble and life drinker are available, making things like the new epic actually worthless, unlike in control guldan where it was actually a tech card, like how shadow reaper anduin’s hero power wasn’t just meant for controlling the board, but that aspect was just complete ignored because of a giant burst combo that the card supported, where a control deck would run more value generation or board clears and instead the deck just ran a combo in a control deck
They both just kind of ignore the chances of an actually control deck which is somewhat fair, and instead only were really played for the damage they let you do
Great game, you forgot to rope every turn though, it's really fun
It becomes devil at night FYI
I DONT KNOW WHAT WE ARE YELLING ABOUT xD
T E N M I N U T E V I D E O
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”
He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought-
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.
And as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
“And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Sometimes i really hate this game. Sometimes I reallu love this game.
7:22 LOL
I just realized.. You said that you want to:
1. Grumble
2. Zola the Grumble
3. Chaingang and Grumble
... But where is Zola? She isn't in the deck 😄
No Jungle chick for no fatigue dmg ? :T
Ok firebat
LOUD NOISES!
Why would that mage sit through so many Shudders when they surely must realise they've already lost.
to waste the shudderwock playing assholes time. i would also rope.
I don't see what's wrong with playing Shudderwock over any other netdeck. If you're playing on ranked ladder, you've gotta expect most people don't have the time or knowledge to build their own decks.
9:20 can firebat not turn left?
He's not an ambi-turner.
that card is a joke
as always fun and interactive, gj blizzard
what is the outro song i really love it
It's in the description of the video
wtf ahahhahahahaha
Firebat, pay attention to me
*play shudderwock cause it's easy to go over 10 mins*
I hate when people run single lifedrinkers.... Makes these games take FOREVER
So I get that the non-combo version of this deck has become standard with the plan to just win through infinite value, healing and burst but I'm still a bit confused as to why this is works better than other versions of shudderwock. If Grumble triggers first you instantly lose, right?* So normally that's a 33% for your 9-drop to fail? Even here where he put in extra work to improve the odds it still had a 20% chance to fail. Apparently it's been seen as an acceptable fail rate but how exactly, that seems extremely high for the only thing your deck is designed to do. The old murmuring versions required a bit more setup but had a 0% fail rate and it's not like they were that much more clunky than this version. So what am I missing?
*Well, obviously summoning three 6/6s at once will sometimes win but as a control deck that does little else until that point those times are probably rare, right?
It’s just that ladder play is different. You’re just trying to maximize your win/loss ratios rather than optimize your combos. It’s sort of why it’s okay to run a deck that just loses 100% of the time against another deck, even if that other deck is being run.
The full combo probably just isn’t as consistent.
you don't need shudd to win
agatha is enough value to beat most decks
Zola - Grumble gives you a 1 mana failsafe if grumble triggers first of the shudderwock. Or if you run Murmuring, then Murmuring - Grumble gives you a 1 mana murmuring to play before the shudderwock to make sure it will succeed. This is of course if you find you have the time to wait on that card before you thin your deck out with Hemet to rush for the combo.
If you play Zola, you chances are 100% anyway lol. Shudderwock copies itself regardless if it bounces back to the hand.
Nope. If you play shudderwock and zola is the first one that triggers it will not make a golden copy of anything since it can't copy itself.. Have you ever tried playing shudderwock? And the reason you want a 1 mana zola is to make sure you can play it on the same turn as you play the shudderwock. If you play the shudderwock, and the zola and grumble triggers before a saronite chain gang, you sit there with some copies of shudderwock on board and none on hand. If you can't play a zola the same turn then you risk running the chance all of them will get cleared before it's your turn again.
My jaws that bites - my claws that catch?
NOOOOO Firebat has succumbed to the devil deck. A little like playing face Hunter back in the days.
symmetry wins
I'm a simple man, I see Shudderwock, I dislike
Come back Ben Brode! Stop this madness!
My jaws that bite, My Claws that Catch
Why doesn't blizzard nerf the crap out of shudderwock... Just increase the mana cost by 2 so it'll be balanced. Do they not want to refund dust or something? Shudderwock shaman is on the level of freeze mage and quest rogue in terms of interaction.
Even firebat with this degenerate deck
Joao Batista Perin Junior i liked dane version more
...Degenerate? it's a control combo that's slow as molasses. Play just about anything faster [most things].
@AllenDariantLopez: BUT ITS POPULAR AND BEATS THE DECK THAT I LIKE TO PLAY! ITS EVIL!
That said we really do need another dirty rat style card to interact with the opponents hand. i'm not against combo decks, I don't hate shudderwok, but there should be a way to beat them than "win before they do their combo". I have no problems with shudderwok, just blizzards lack of printing combo counterplay even though they ALWAYS have a secret hating card in standard at any given time ever since they made kezan mystic and have a weapon hater and murloc hater in classic. Hopefully next set will have something to fuck with minions in the opponents hand.
You know a deck firebat is playing is boring when the decisions he talks out are obvious to everyone
Pretty much the worst designed card ever in any card game i played atleast.. not only did they print the most uninteractive win condition ever they gave it the worst sound and animation ever too.
Am i the only one who interprets shudderwock as ben brode saying "fuck this game im going to go work on something else"?
EARLY AF BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Wait, what? Sea otters CLUB baby seals? With actual clubs? Wow, I had no idea sea otters had evolved to use tools. ;)
Actually, they rape them to death, but you can't really say that on stream.
Torey Jones LOL