Fun fact: attack and HP are stored as floating point numbers. The 50% bonus damage reduction results in units often taking half points of damage. The amount of HP shown in the UI is rounded down to the nearest integer. A unit with 1 HP might really have 1.5 HP. Units die when the HP drops below 1 (it doesn't have to fall all the way to 0, an attack that leaves a unit with 0.5 HP ends up killing the unit).
@Qoory floating point arithmetic doesn't magically result in different results on different machines. As long as you perform the same operations in the same order, you will get the same result.
This civ seems perfect for my playstyle which is unchanged from when I was like 8: - just buy lots of units - don't even understand counters - kill my own units with onagers
@@sethheristal9561 you misunderstood. Anakin is the sicilians here, and he gets trashed. As would a sicilian unit who thought himself immune to hill bonus
The new expansions are getting more creative with their abilities. Units now generate gold, have bonus attack on their first strike, military creates buildings, a revolution makes all villagers soldiers (spanish had that, but they still use knives). I can’t wait for the next expansion (which will be broken, then fixed in a month).
honestly, i prefer these types of bonuses that go outside the box and actively change your playstyle, over just simple stat increases. giving a unit a little more attack or defense and considering that a "bonus" seems like lazy game design to me
i dont see this as creative. i see this as out of ideas. Those bonuses just dont fit the game. they could alos be "creative" and add a modern civ with guns and cars. that just wouldnt belong in the game, despite being revolutionary.
@@St3v3NWL Actually there is somewhat of a historical basis, in that Sicily was very difficult to conquer, the people were resilient, heck they named the perfect defence in Chess the Sicilian defence. Best part was it didn't matter who they were up against, athenians, ottomans, normans, they gave a tough time to anyone trying to attack Sicily.
SotL: Monks aren't considered military here Me clicking Ctrl + Shift + , to select all military units: what this monk doing in the group? The Sicilians' monks got scammed man
Mangudai: Have no counter Sicilians: Oh really, how about we send siege with bonus damage mitigation? Devs: Stop that now. Mangudai: Still have no counter
It's more about siege vs. siege. Rams and Mango/Onager have anti siege bonus. In mangonel versus mangonel the sicilian can just tank the first hit and counter attack.
@@ViktorBerg I know you're just joking, but they definitely had rules for engagement. The church was often more powerful than the state, or at least the pope was. And they wouldn't be happy if their priests got killed while giving aid to the wounded.
@@harishsundar3409 you are forgetting something. catas do bonys vs infantry. and the unique tech gives trample damage to catas. throwing loads of infantry at catas is a very bad match. They aint gonna fight you to death. They will pull out with half damaged units and leave a major portion of your champs dead. I got the best results against them with low number high quality units. like paladin, camels,mamlukes and even boyars/leitis. Catas are designed specifically vs infantry. But they dont hold up to other cav.
This explains how my armies in the sicilian campaign survive so much especially that scenario that gives so many knights to the point where I just defeat the enemies including places where I have to fight fortifications such as breaking the gate on them with towers and army in their base.
Another thing to note is that this bonus damage mitigation is stored in the unit data rather than as a civ data. So if you convert a Sicilian cavalier, it will take reduced bonus damage from Halberdiers. On the other hand if the Sicilian player converts your paladin, they will take full damage from Halberdiers.
Interesting, so it seems like the bonus has a much more noticeable impact early on in the game, whereas later in the game, the effects aren't as drastic, but still do slightly nudge the odds in your favour
@@icarian553 but mostly jz with infantry, since they lack both the hussar upgrade and the ring mail armor upgrade, also no thumb ring...still pretty strong tho
@@dattilo1 Their halbs are fully upgraded and take less dmg from their trash counter: skirmisher. Their skirms take same dmg from enemy skirms even without ring mail so it doesn't matter much. Their light cav actually do better against halbs than fully upgraded hussar. I mean, if they can get that far, they're pretty dangerous.
@@icarian553 yeah, IF they can get that far. Due to the lack of strong imperial age options, they usually gonna get bodied hard by Archer civs, making proper trade until your opponent ran out of gold is not something they are good at. They used to have the chance with the UT which spawned 10 Serjeants per TC (50 Max), but since it was nerfed to 7 Serjeants per TC (max 35), they struggle hard against anything that can make FU CA.
Their interactions with some unique units like Cataphracts which counter their counters with bonus damage (and damage mitigation per se) might be interesting.
The bonus seems to do most for knights, the entire scout line, and the spear line. With minor benefits to the Archer line, cavalier and paladin, skirmishers and cavalry archers.
This explains why Sicilians can't achieve a winrate over 50% until the game goes longer than 40 minutes according to AOEStats. I also noticed that they perform surprisingly well on water maps. My theory on this is that the cheaper transport ships and ability to build Donjons with Serjeants units makes it easy for them to capture neutral islands and establish an early presence on enemy islands.
Light cav beating pikeman just sound wrong :/ And how it with skirmsh looks for imp. FU generic have 7 attack, so they do 1 generic and +2 bonus? And Sicilians does just +4?
10:08 In my quick tests the -50% bonus damage does work on hills as long as the units fighting deal hidden bonus damage (since that's what's obviously being reduced). It was especially noticeable with all bonus damage (so like Skirmisher vs Skirmisher). Sicilian skirmishers actually won even when fighting uphill against generic skirmishers because of this.
The -50% bonus damage still works on hills as normal. What I mean is the original wording implied it would reduce hill bonus damage, as well, which it doesn't.
Camels yes, but pikes were never that strong of a castle age counter since its hard to force units to engage. Monks are still a threat. It still doesn't make them the best knights though since they are otherwise completely generic and get overpowered by anyone else's knights with bonuses. I think the Burgundian castle age cavaliers are probably the best knights atm.
Not really because you just get outpaced by other knight civs with better economy, or better bonuses for their knights. Like, when you think about it, against camels civs like chinese, berbers, persians, etc. you'd get recked by them making knights instead of camels just because they have an economy more suited towards making knights
@@SC-mo6fs What about the Indians :(. Saracens are already so strong and they get more buffs on their camels and Indians get nerfs. IIRC Saracens heavy camels are better than Imperial Camels now
His conclusion wasnt that its op but really strong in certain situations, but the civ have other weaknesses that makes it hard to capotalize on your stengths. Like all civs
@@AttiliusRex He says that it will probably be "changed", that is code for "It's OP and they should nerf it"; but he doesn't say it that way because he's polite. So no.
Hi, i was just wondering if you were planing to do similar videos for AOE3, if so i might be able to run a few tests in it so you can continue to do this amazing work, also, i am thinking about running a few of the tests that you have done but with a 256X tech mod or the one i prefer 30X or 9X tech mods to see just what tech how the balance changes (inspired by the fact that you mentioned the new Aztec (i think it was the Aztec) CA UT that allows them to throw a second projectile), and as a idea for a video, you have done what nation has the strongest/best farmers, maybe you could do the same for other units, for example, i love the hand cannon (i think it is underwhelming, but still neat), but i can't tell what nation has the strongest hand cannon, so testing them purely comparing each nations (obviously only the ones that have bonuses that affect them and one more as a generic) hand cannon against the other nations hand cannon, either way, i love what you do, and it has really brought me back to age of empires, i can safely say that it is because of you that i bought AOE1 once, AOE2 twice and AOE3 3 times, and i will do what ever it takes to buy AOE4 4 times, whenever it comes out, keep doing what you do, i wish i knew more about the game and had the patience to be able to conduct tests to help you out.
Well, about monks not being military... If you try the "Select all military units" or it's other 2 version of that hotkey (All visible military and all idle military) also includes monks not carrying relics.
Love the bonus! Probably one for smart players who take cost effective fights early, to compensate for a weaker economy. Maybe also nice for beginners who do not get stomped immediately by a higher rated player who uses counters smartly.
Why there's no "Weak against..." phrase in the Serjant's description unlike with every other unit? Because that unit is not weak against anything, except maybe a direct siege onager shot. Ridiculous.
Hey Spirit, I have a video suggestion for you, since its a question that I've wondered about for some time now: does the Byzantine bonus building HP offset them not getting masonry/architecture, or are their some cases where their buildings would actually be more resilient if they had those techs because of the building armor they provide?
Spirit mentions it around 12 minutes into this video which explains a lot of how weird building armour is th-cam.com/video/O3yDAPvv_tM/w-d-xo.html. TLDR: It's better or the same for durability in almost every situation, costs nothing, and starts earlier, so definitely better overall.
Could you do some infantry vs anti-infantry unique or unique vs anti-unique match-ups with this bonus? I'm curious about the serjeant's ability to tank jaguars and samurai but I'm too lazy to test it mysel- I mean, I want you to get more views and clicks 'cuz you're great!
It’s probably an unpopular opinion, but I think that the Sicilians could probably use a buff - though their bonus to castle construction speed could probably be reduced to 50% in exchange. To be honest, I think Sicilians are good contenders for Paladins and Hussars without Plate Barding, since the Norman Sicilians had a proud mounted tradition but were taken over by the Berbers before they could develop plate.
Can you make a video (or a seperate one for unique units) about all (hidden) bonus damage for every unit and building? I didn't know eagles had +2 against cavalry for instance!
The only comparison missing is imp Elite Skirms vs Elite Skirms. Sicilians don't have the last armor and thumb ring, so I expect them to be the same/worst?
As a request could you look into the new arambai and whether they're stronger or weaker than before? I don't really need to know but it'd be interesting for me and I'm sure others.
All these new civs always make me wonder if the byzantines need a minor early game buff or is their late game just that powerful that that can't be done?
So, at the end this Sicilian bonus is in fact an anti-bonus for the enemy. It would be great to have it for all land units, including monks and siege and make it bigger like 65 or 75% (siege like 25%)
What about the Charge damage from a Coustillier? I have a strong feeling that it is bonus damage with a Cooldown, so it would be affected by teh Sicilian reduction. But a test would be nessesary.
The feudal age symbol is a dragon on a Norman shield? I don't know why but I always thought it looked like a deer footprint like how the dark age is the boar.
Curious, does that meant that unique units deal damage to the Sicilians? I.e Jaguar Knights infantry bonus and Samurai damage to the Serjants still apply?
Converted units don't get your upgrades or your civ bonuses. Of course, that does mean that if you convert Sicilian units, they get to keep this bonus.
What about the unique units matchups? for example: Elite Mangudai vs Siege Ram/Onager Elite Magyar Huszar vs Siege Ram/Onager Elite Samurai vs Serjeant Elite Jaguar Warrior vs Champion/Serjeant Elite Cataphract vs Champion/Serjeant Elite Huskarl vs Arbalest Elite Mameluke vs Cavalier Elite Kamayuk vs Cavalier Elite Genoese Crossbowman vs Cavalier/Light Cavalry
@@nonnaurbisness3013 You dropped a /s. The first DE civ overview, Lithuanians, was done in Feb 4, 2020, 82 days after DE was officially released. I imagine once the civs settle in a couple of months, they will be overviewed as any other.
In the name of DauT The Father, T-West the Son, and of the Law the Spirit, great video as always, thank you! One thing I'd like to offer feedback on, though, is (ironically) the constant occurrence of the word ('though') throughout the video. I'm not sure what the density per minute was in the other videos, but it never felt noticeable before, whereas this time it was (Lord DauT forgive me) downright annoying. Spirit, I greatly enjoy your work, and others might not think my pet peeve of the day is justified, but please don't take it as an insult - it's simply feedback. Tl;dr: lovely analysis as always, but the word 'though' appears WAY too often, if you ask me
One matchup I felt was missing is skirms vs skirms in Imperial. Basically how much does other civilizations having the last armor upgrade affect the matchup compared to castle age.
Elite Skirmishers get an extra 4 damage against archers, so it balances out exactly against Ring Archer Armor. Bad news is that Sicilians also miss Thumb Ring.
Steppe lancers got buffed gradually after that nerf, initial steppe lancer was bullshit, don't tell us you cannot win without it. Also Flaming Camels is still more useful than generic Champions, never seen someone win by switching into/building mass generic champion army, but I've seen multiple wins where enemy mass army got zoned by Flaming camels.
Shout out to SOTL for doing post-launch unit testing for the dev team free of charge. If only every company had an independent scientific mind who gladly did deep dives into intended and unintended consequences of logic decisions buried in code, and does so for TH-cam content.
1:48 Scout always has less HP percentage based, but then on the last two hits he doesn't take any damage from spearman, why?! Is there a "miss" mechanic in this game? Now I know why it often feels inconsistent during melee fights, not only animations don't match, but also this. EDIT: Ok, no missed hits, but interval between hits is not always 100% the same, the difference is quite small, but it's still here.
Attack animations and the real attack that reduces hp are not syncronised. For example bulgarian stirrups tech increaes attack rate of hussar 33% but the animation is the same. So you cant tell if the opponent took the tech by looking the animation, you have to look at hp's
It's just animation. Spearmen attack significantly slower but do more damage with each hit so the first hit takes more % from the scout than the spearman takes but the scout then catches up. If you replay it, the scout's HP goes down periodically.
The actual damage interval just doesn't synchronize with the attack animation, the spearman isn't missing it's just dealing damage slower than the animation would lead you to believe.
The units' animation isn't directly linked to the rate at which they deal damage. Spears are a big offender, because they have a particularly slow "rate of fire". If you notice the time interval at which the scout takes damage (just focus on the HP bar) it's fairly consistent.
As I saw that moment again I decided to add an EDIT to my original comment so as you all pointed out the damage is indeed quite regular. However I totally disagree on the "just animation" part. In some games like WC3 animations are a key to proper micro. "But it's a different game on smaller scale..." ok, Age of Mythology as well as AOE3 both have animations directly linked to moment units deal damage. To me it makes things a lot clearer to see if it's synchronised. Little stuff like this makes me not enjoy the game as much as I should and it bothers me quite a bit. For a reference I played AOE2 since AOK almost every year and it always felt cluncky here and there. But I could go really deep on this topic so I'll just end it here. And my point is not to hate, but to ask why after so many years things haven't changed?
I want to know if this effects bonuses from other civs techs and bonuses. Eg is the bonus Vs Cavalry that chieftains provide halved by the Sicilian bonus
Can you make a history VS Noryang point since you said you make it one time in the the Kyoto video or any Campign/scenario course you haven’t make anyone since the reales of DE or even longer
Fun fact: attack and HP are stored as floating point numbers. The 50% bonus damage reduction results in units often taking half points of damage. The amount of HP shown in the UI is rounded down to the nearest integer. A unit with 1 HP might really have 1.5 HP. Units die when the HP drops below 1 (it doesn't have to fall all the way to 0, an attack that leaves a unit with 0.5 HP ends up killing the unit).
SOTL and T-West collab when
Sir this is not fun at all. In fact, it is a matter of life and death.
@Qoory
Came to post this.
@Qoory floating point arithmetic doesn't magically result in different results on different machines. As long as you perform the same operations in the same order, you will get the same result.
@@jordivermeulen2519 Exactly -- rounding errors are themselves deterministic given the standardized float definition (IEEE 754).
This civ seems perfect for my playstyle which is unchanged from when I was like 8:
- just buy lots of units
- don't even understand counters
- kill my own units with onagers
I still don't make onagers to this day because of that
- use monks to heal the units, send them to fight castles so they die anyway
@@ADCFproductions The monks or the units?
@@Llortnerof BOTH!!! ;D
I never thought I'd see you here. Love your tutorials!
I like to imagine Spirit of the Law, Lock Picking Lawyer, and Historia Civilis are all cousins.
Today we're gonna learn how Julius Caesar used this ancient roman wall lock to negate hill bonus in the battle of Alesia
@@cfv7461 😂👍🏻
I love Historia Civilis !!!
Nah, I'm pretty sure Historia Civilis is their uncle. Such gravitas!
Same person actually, just using voice changing equipment.
8:54, man, that Sicilian Arbalester is a master of disguise!
An Arbalester with an halberd
hmmmm interesting.
An arbalester with a halberd?? Must be Genoese!
An Halbelester with an Alberd?
It’s great that almost all units have that. It’s a great way to be more effective against samurai, jaguar warriors and leitis.
I like your videos man
Leitis? Why?
You forgot the cataprhact.
@@HyunAOP Thanks, Hyun.
And almost every other uu, as almost all have some way of dealing bonus damage to some unit xD
Tatars: It's over Sicilians, I have the high ground!
Sicilians: You underestimate my damage reduction bonus
Hill bonus isn't affected, only unit-counter bonus damage.
@@AnthanKrufix Anakin says that right before getting cut up.
@@MikeHoxenormous no, obi wan says that, sooo Anthan is right
@@sethheristal9561 you misunderstood. Anakin is the sicilians here, and he gets trashed. As would a sicilian unit who thought himself immune to hill bonus
The new expansions are getting more creative with their abilities. Units now generate gold, have bonus attack on their first strike, military creates buildings, a revolution makes all villagers soldiers (spanish had that, but they still use knives). I can’t wait for the next expansion (which will be broken, then fixed in a month).
honestly, i prefer these types of bonuses that go outside the box and actively change your playstyle, over just simple stat increases. giving a unit a little more attack or defense and considering that a "bonus" seems like lazy game design to me
If you think about it, those are all features of age of mitology, so not so unique in genre but unique in this game, they also feel a little off
they take Inspiration from their other games like AOE3 and Age of mythology
i dont see this as creative. i see this as out of ideas. Those bonuses just dont fit the game. they could alos be "creative" and add a modern civ with guns and cars. that just wouldnt belong in the game, despite being revolutionary.
@@animangovideo7375 out of ideas? I’d like to hear what superior ideas you have.
Devs: Sicilians, you have to take bonus damage like everyone else.
Sicilians: I am going to make you an offer you can't refuse.
It is too overpowerd and has no historical base either. The dev made these meme civs on purpose in order to sell the dlc.
@@St3v3NWL Actually there is somewhat of a historical basis, in that Sicily was very difficult to conquer, the people were resilient, heck they named the perfect defence in Chess the Sicilian defence.
Best part was it didn't matter who they were up against, athenians, ottomans, normans, they gave a tough time to anyone trying to attack Sicily.
BUT ONLY SLIGHTLY LESS WELL KNOWN IS THIS, NEVER GO IN AGAINST A SICILIAN, WHEN DEATH IS ON THE LINE, AHAH, AHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHA AHH- ___
Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
@@yammoto148 Yeah we all know that Sicilians were the OG tankers of the Medieval Age.
SotL: Monks aren't considered military here
Me clicking Ctrl + Shift + , to select all military units: what this monk doing in the group?
The Sicilians' monks got scammed man
Aye, they should be added. Aztecs' monks benefits from that speed production from "military units"
So much for religion and peace...
Mangudai: Have no counter
Sicilians: Oh really, how about we send siege with bonus damage mitigation?
Devs: Stop that now.
Mangudai: Still have no counter
And they removed the bonus for their seige so they dont even benefit vs mangudai
And Then I Gave it Back in my Game. XD
Give me Lithuanians or Vietnamese and i counter Mangudai every day.
It's more about siege vs. siege. Rams and Mango/Onager have anti siege bonus. In mangonel versus mangonel the sicilian can just tank the first hit and counter attack.
@@lagg1e drill helps the mongolian player micro the mangos thougj
If Monks arent military why does hitting "select all Military" select monks without relecs? its very annoying when I accidentally select a monk
They're combat medics
@@chris5240 Thank goodness the Geneva Convention wasn't a thing back then, huh
@@ViktorBerg I know you're just joking, but they definitely had rules for engagement. The church was often more powerful than the state, or at least the pope was. And they wouldn't be happy if their priests got killed while giving aid to the wounded.
it's like the Cataphracts : they're not invincible, you just have to use unit with more raw damage (Paladins, Champions, Onagers...)
Cataphracts are useless because they are too expensive.
champs dont trade well. takes too much bonus damage. pals and archers are best.
@@nvmtt They trade amazingly well, Champs cost 65 res (45+20) against cavaliers (60 +75), you can do 2 champs per cavalier and win convincingly
@@harishsundar3409 you are forgetting something. catas do bonys vs infantry. and the unique tech gives trample damage to catas. throwing loads of infantry at catas is a very bad match. They aint gonna fight you to death. They will pull out with half damaged units and leave a major portion of your champs dead. I got the best results against them with low number high quality units. like paladin, camels,mamlukes and even boyars/leitis. Catas are designed specifically vs infantry. But they dont hold up to other cav.
@@nvmtt
You are missing something.
They both talk about countering sicilian KNIGHTS, not byz. cataphracts. They only made a point they are alike.
This explains how my armies in the sicilian campaign survive so much especially that scenario that gives so many knights to the point where I just defeat the enemies including places where I have to fight fortifications such as breaking the gate on them with towers and army in their base.
Did you just ignored the fact, that scouts take less bonus damage from boars?
To the top!
BOARING!
Once in a blue moon I play a round of AoEII - I do watch every video by Spirit Of The Law, however :)
i play it once in every day as well.
Crazy to think there was a time before DE that I thought Spirit would run out of things to talk about. Let the content flow!
Another thing to note is that this bonus damage mitigation is stored in the unit data rather than as a civ data. So if you convert a Sicilian cavalier, it will take reduced bonus damage from Halberdiers. On the other hand if the Sicilian player converts your paladin, they will take full damage from Halberdiers.
Like button deserved to hit. Keep up the good work
What if you convert an elephant, does the elephant also gain the bonus?
that is nuts...
I doubt it .
@@furkansaryerli no mister the other way arround...
Interesting, so it seems like the bonus has a much more noticeable impact early on in the game, whereas later in the game, the effects aren't as drastic, but still do slightly nudge the odds in your favour
Except in very late game when it comes to trash fights. Sicilians seem very strong there.
@@icarian553 but mostly jz with infantry, since they lack both the hussar upgrade and the ring mail armor upgrade, also no thumb ring...still pretty strong tho
@@icarian553 Also their ability to reach the late game might be hindered by their poor early game economy.
@@dattilo1 Their halbs are fully upgraded and take less dmg from their trash counter: skirmisher. Their skirms take same dmg from enemy skirms even without ring mail so it doesn't matter much. Their light cav actually do better against halbs than fully upgraded hussar. I mean, if they can get that far, they're pretty dangerous.
@@icarian553 yeah, IF they can get that far. Due to the lack of strong imperial age options, they usually gonna get bodied hard by Archer civs, making proper trade until your opponent ran out of gold is not something they are good at. They used to have the chance with the UT which spawned 10 Serjeants per TC (50 Max), but since it was nerfed to 7 Serjeants per TC (max 35), they struggle hard against anything that can make FU CA.
Even though I don't play AOE2 as much I still enjoy watching your content
The bonus might not affect ships directly, BUT it does affect camels. You never know....
They say a dessert is a sea of sand
But camels are not ships anymore
They say the camel is the 'Ship of the Desert'
8:56 it says Sicilian Arbalester but it should be Sicilian Halberdier
4:00 Sicilian spearmen take 2 extra arrows.
Skirmisher: "What!?" - Javelin misses - make it 3 xD
4:33 AT ARMS MEN, we shall poke and prod these noble warriors to the next plane of existence.
Their interactions with some unique units like Cataphracts which counter their counters with bonus damage (and damage mitigation per se) might be interesting.
Somehow I found it very fun that you called the attacks from the spear line "pokes" :)
The bonus seems to do most for knights, the entire scout line, and the spear line.
With minor benefits to the Archer line, cavalier and paladin, skirmishers and cavalry archers.
And the Label is: infantry civ 😂
This explains why Sicilians can't achieve a winrate over 50% until the game goes longer than 40 minutes according to AOEStats. I also noticed that they perform surprisingly well on water maps. My theory on this is that the cheaper transport ships and ability to build Donjons with Serjeants units makes it easy for them to capture neutral islands and establish an early presence on enemy islands.
This video is revolutionary especially for hc4
Light cav beating pikeman just sound wrong :/ And how it with skirmsh looks for imp. FU generic have 7 attack, so they do 1 generic and +2 bonus? And Sicilians does just +4?
10:08 In my quick tests the -50% bonus damage does work on hills as long as the units fighting deal hidden bonus damage (since that's what's obviously being reduced). It was especially noticeable with all bonus damage (so like Skirmisher vs Skirmisher).
Sicilian skirmishers actually won even when fighting uphill against generic skirmishers because of this.
The -50% bonus damage still works on hills as normal. What I mean is the original wording implied it would reduce hill bonus damage, as well, which it doesn't.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw Yeah I didn't mean to nitpick, I just wanted to point out that you can amplify the -50% bonus even further with hills.
I like that with DE civs you spend more time on the civs bonuses and UU in their own separate videos, which makes civ overviews shorter
I think it's one of the strongest civ bonuses in the game. Sometimes situational, but immensely useful when you most need it.
Updated video of top trash unit civilizations?
A question must be asked, does converting Sicilian unit will bring their civ bonus over?
If I had to guess I’d say it wouldn’t, but would love to see a quick follow-up video on this!
Converting a unit does not affect it's original civ bonuses.
A wanted to ask the same, and also, would the bonus apply to a unit converted by a sicilian?
@@mst.46 no. The bonus stats of a unit so not change after conversion.
No. End discussion.
8:57 I understand that Sicilian Arbalests are generally weak, but it seems weird that they are the only civ to get reduced to 1 range :/
Basically, they have the best castle age knights when the knight counters 2 of its biggest counters - pikes and camels
Camels yes, but pikes were never that strong of a castle age counter since its hard to force units to engage. Monks are still a threat. It still doesn't make them the best knights though since they are otherwise completely generic and get overpowered by anyone else's knights with bonuses. I think the Burgundian castle age cavaliers are probably the best knights atm.
Not really because you just get outpaced by other knight civs with better economy, or better bonuses for their knights. Like, when you think about it, against camels civs like chinese, berbers, persians, etc. you'd get recked by them making knights instead of camels just because they have an economy more suited towards making knights
They have the best everything because all of these is free
@@michaeltaylor8698 Yes I mean thats true. It was more of an outlandish statement on my part rather than pure fact.
@@SC-mo6fs What about the Indians :(. Saracens are already so strong and they get more buffs on their camels and Indians get nerfs. IIRC Saracens heavy camels are better than Imperial Camels now
It's funny how SotL seems to use words like ''quite strong'' or ''insane'' to avoid saying ''overpowered''.
His conclusion wasnt that its op but really strong in certain situations, but the civ have other weaknesses that makes it hard to capotalize on your stengths. Like all civs
Because "Overpowered" isn't something his generation familiar with, he's more of "Imba" person and he said that few times.
@@AttiliusRex He says that it will probably be "changed", that is code for "It's OP and they should nerf it"; but he doesn't say it that way because he's polite. So no.
Uhmm slight oversight there at 8:55... displaying Arbalester over Halbedier :))
The team bonus with anti-ship attack armour for transport ships is also interesting. I hope you check it too.
Which mod does Spirit use for those beautiful hand cannon smoke trails? 9:34
It is called the '[Greatest tech] Gunpowder tracer mod"
The only civ bonus tgat i want is the intro theme coming back :c
Hi, i was just wondering if you were planing to do similar videos for AOE3, if so i might be able to run a few tests in it so you can continue to do this amazing work, also, i am thinking about running a few of the tests that you have done but with a 256X tech mod or the one i prefer 30X or 9X tech mods to see just what tech how the balance changes (inspired by the fact that you mentioned the new Aztec (i think it was the Aztec) CA UT that allows them to throw a second projectile), and as a idea for a video, you have done what nation has the strongest/best farmers, maybe you could do the same for other units, for example, i love the hand cannon (i think it is underwhelming, but still neat), but i can't tell what nation has the strongest hand cannon, so testing them purely comparing each nations (obviously only the ones that have bonuses that affect them and one more as a generic) hand cannon against the other nations hand cannon, either way, i love what you do, and it has really brought me back to age of empires, i can safely say that it is because of you that i bought AOE1 once, AOE2 twice and AOE3 3 times, and i will do what ever it takes to buy AOE4 4 times, whenever it comes out, keep doing what you do, i wish i knew more about the game and had the patience to be able to conduct tests to help you out.
Well, about monks not being military... If you try the "Select all military units" or it's other 2 version of that hotkey (All visible military and all idle military) also includes monks not carrying relics.
1000 likes and a fat ZERO dislikes, my mans got quality videos
That harry potter villain everyone forgot about:
Sicilian E. Skirm
Love the bonus! Probably one for smart players who take cost effective fights early, to compensate for a weaker economy. Maybe also nice for beginners who do not get stomped immediately by a higher rated player who uses counters smartly.
Why there's no "Weak against..." phrase in the Serjant's description unlike with every other unit? Because that unit is not weak against anything, except maybe a direct siege onager shot. Ridiculous.
So Sicilian archers into knights probably makes the most sense in general.
Their scouts and light cav are also great, and much more resilient against those pesky pokey boys
Wow, no dislike so far. Have never seen this
You should talk about cataphracts since they have the same type of armor. Sicilian cavalry are like mini cataphracts.
Hey Spirit, I have a video suggestion for you, since its a question that I've wondered about for some time now: does the Byzantine bonus building HP offset them not getting masonry/architecture, or are their some cases where their buildings would actually be more resilient if they had those techs because of the building armor they provide?
Spirit mentions it around 12 minutes into this video which explains a lot of how weird building armour is th-cam.com/video/O3yDAPvv_tM/w-d-xo.html.
TLDR: It's better or the same for durability in almost every situation, costs nothing, and starts earlier, so definitely better overall.
@@Kogoso Thanks!
Could you do some infantry vs anti-infantry unique or unique vs anti-unique match-ups with this bonus? I'm curious about the serjeant's ability to tank jaguars and samurai but I'm too lazy to test it mysel- I mean, I want you to get more views and clicks 'cuz you're great!
This civi will be so useful in shared civi bonus mod
How about Samurais against their Searjants?
Edit: And Jaguar warriors against their infantry?
samurai win. But serjants are easier to produce in masses and with hude pierce armour much more versatile
It’s probably an unpopular opinion, but I think that the Sicilians could probably use a buff - though their bonus to castle construction speed could probably be reduced to 50% in exchange. To be honest, I think Sicilians are good contenders for Paladins and Hussars without Plate Barding, since the Norman Sicilians had a proud mounted tradition but were taken over by the Berbers before they could develop plate.
Can you make a video (or a seperate one for unique units) about all (hidden) bonus damage for every unit and building? I didn't know eagles had +2 against cavalry for instance!
what about elephants? does the bonus apply on converted elephants?
The only comparison missing is imp Elite Skirms vs Elite Skirms. Sicilians don't have the last armor and thumb ring, so I expect them to be the same/worst?
I wonder if it cuts the Burgundian castle unit charge damage in half since its all bonus damage that avoids armor.
7:18 If monks aren't military is there a reason they still show up when using the idle military hotkey?
Do sergeants receive less bonus damage from samurai and jaguar warriors?
No imp camel vs cavaliers?
STOL I was even expecting Indian camels vs Sicilian cavaliers.
How can you forget my beloved camels?
As a request could you look into the new arambai and whether they're stronger or weaker than before? I don't really need to know but it'd be interesting for me and I'm sure others.
I think eating something is the best way to watch your videos.
All these new civs always make me wonder if the byzantines need a minor early game buff or is their late game just that powerful that that can't be done?
they definitely need some buff. giving them blood line would solve the problem
7:57 Spirit, that was a missed opportunity to play the Frankish song :D
But thats impossible, they are in a bad context! :P
What about converted units? Does Sicilian elephants and camel got 50% bonus reduciton from halbs as well?
So, at the end this Sicilian bonus is in fact an anti-bonus for the enemy. It would be great to have it for all land units, including monks and siege and make it bigger like 65 or 75% (siege like 25%)
What about CATAPHRACT BONUS DAMAGE
What about the Charge damage from a Coustillier?
I have a strong feeling that it is bonus damage with a Cooldown, so it would be affected by teh Sicilian reduction. But a test would be nessesary.
I know it doesn't make sense but just imagine if Sicilians could create elephants.
The feudal age symbol is a dragon on a Norman shield? I don't know why but I always thought it looked like a deer footprint like how the dark age is the boar.
What happens to converted units? I am thinking of elephants, converted by Sicilians, fighting pikes...
Curious, does that meant that unique units deal damage to the Sicilians? I.e Jaguar Knights infantry bonus and Samurai damage to the Serjants still apply?
What about converted units? E.g. if a sicilian converts a persian war elephant, how will it fare against spears?
Converted units don't get your upgrades or your civ bonuses. Of course, that does mean that if you convert Sicilian units, they get to keep this bonus.
What about the unique units matchups? for example:
Elite Mangudai vs Siege Ram/Onager
Elite Magyar Huszar vs Siege Ram/Onager
Elite Samurai vs Serjeant
Elite Jaguar Warrior vs Champion/Serjeant
Elite Cataphract vs Champion/Serjeant
Elite Huskarl vs Arbalest
Elite Mameluke vs Cavalier
Elite Kamayuk vs Cavalier
Elite Genoese Crossbowman vs Cavalier/Light Cavalry
Maybe a Sicilian civ overwiev incoming?
Better wait a few month, because Sicilian are really fresh and could get a change or two (especially about castle and tc building i think)
No I don't think he'll ever do a civ overview of Sicilians at any point in the future
@@nonnaurbisness3013 You dropped a /s. The first DE civ overview, Lithuanians, was done in Feb 4, 2020, 82 days after DE was officially released. I imagine once the civs settle in a couple of months, they will be overviewed as any other.
@@Just_a-guy they already get changed. First TC builds at normal speed and first cusade spawns insted 10 serjants
@@inferno9103 first Crusade spawn 7 to max 35 unit, but still i takes time to see if it is enough or if they arent nerfed too much
In the name of DauT The Father, T-West the Son, and of the Law the Spirit, great video as always, thank you!
One thing I'd like to offer feedback on, though, is (ironically) the constant occurrence of the word ('though') throughout the video. I'm not sure what the density per minute was in the other videos, but it never felt noticeable before, whereas this time it was (Lord DauT forgive me) downright annoying. Spirit, I greatly enjoy your work, and others might not think my pet peeve of the day is justified, but please don't take it as an insult - it's simply feedback.
Tl;dr: lovely analysis as always, but the word 'though' appears WAY too often, if you ask me
I was wondering how the sergeant holds up to it's counter, like the samurai
One matchup I felt was missing is skirms vs skirms in Imperial. Basically how much does other civilizations having the last armor upgrade affect the matchup compared to castle age.
Elite Skirmishers get an extra 4 damage against archers, so it balances out exactly against Ring Archer Armor. Bad news is that Sicilians also miss Thumb Ring.
They did this shit and nerfed the fuck out steppe lancers, making them the shittiest unit in the game after flaming camels
What do you mean flaming camels are op I won with 200 flamin camels yesterday
...not
Hopefully they'll do the same with the new civs
What did they do to steppe lancers???
Steppe lancers got buffed gradually after that nerf, initial steppe lancer was bullshit, don't tell us you cannot win without it.
Also Flaming Camels is still more useful than generic Champions, never seen someone win by switching into/building mass generic champion army, but I've seen multiple wins where enemy mass army got zoned by Flaming camels.
They did thios and they removed Obsidian Arrows for a stupid +1 damage sometimes for skirmishers.
Spirit, I wanted to know something. Are the kamayuks in the spear class ? If so, they would take more damages from skirmishers.
Are other civ unique units affected by the bonus, such as the byz cataphract?
Do converted units get the bonus damage ressistance?
Or other civs converting Sicillian units keep that ressistance?
Can you do a new video on gunpowder civilizations?
I only ask because I want to know who'd win in a fight between the Spanish and the Burgundians
Shout out to SOTL for doing post-launch unit testing for the dev team free of charge. If only every company had an independent scientific mind who gladly did deep dives into intended and unintended consequences of logic decisions buried in code, and does so for TH-cam content.
Can you maybe do a quick update video on how the unique unit fairs against samurai and jaguar warriors? Great video as always otherwise.
wonder if the Samurai faster attack bonus is also reduced to half.. Like the faster Celt infantry this seems like a kind of indirect bonus..
1:48 Scout always has less HP percentage based, but then on the last two hits he doesn't take any damage from spearman, why?! Is there a "miss" mechanic in this game? Now I know why it often feels inconsistent during melee fights, not only animations don't match, but also this.
EDIT: Ok, no missed hits, but interval between hits is not always 100% the same, the difference is quite small, but it's still here.
Attack animations and the real attack that reduces hp are not syncronised. For example bulgarian stirrups tech increaes attack rate of hussar 33% but the animation is the same. So you cant tell if the opponent took the tech by looking the animation, you have to look at hp's
It's just animation. Spearmen attack significantly slower but do more damage with each hit so the first hit takes more % from the scout than the spearman takes but the scout then catches up. If you replay it, the scout's HP goes down periodically.
The actual damage interval just doesn't synchronize with the attack animation, the spearman isn't missing it's just dealing damage slower than the animation would lead you to believe.
The units' animation isn't directly linked to the rate at which they deal damage. Spears are a big offender, because they have a particularly slow "rate of fire". If you notice the time interval at which the scout takes damage (just focus on the HP bar) it's fairly consistent.
As I saw that moment again I decided to add an EDIT to my original comment so as you all pointed out the damage is indeed quite regular. However I totally disagree on the "just animation" part. In some games like WC3 animations are a key to proper micro. "But it's a different game on smaller scale..." ok, Age of Mythology as well as AOE3 both have animations directly linked to moment units deal damage. To me it makes things a lot clearer to see if it's synchronised. Little stuff like this makes me not enjoy the game as much as I should and it bothers me quite a bit. For a reference I played AOE2 since AOK almost every year and it always felt cluncky here and there. But I could go really deep on this topic so I'll just end it here. And my point is not to hate, but to ask why after so many years things haven't changed?
You missed the most important one: What if they convert an Eagle who then fights vs champions?
speaking of monks as a counter, if you convert a sicilian knight, does it retain sicilian damage reductions once it's been converted?
Does the bonus apply to converted units??? Uhh the sicilian warelephants are comming :D
I want to know if this effects bonuses from other civs techs and bonuses. Eg is the bonus Vs Cavalry that chieftains provide halved by the Sicilian bonus
Can you make a history VS Noryang point since you said you make it one time in the the Kyoto video or any Campign/scenario course you haven’t make anyone since the reales of DE or even longer
I've never been this early to a video before
But what about the match-up of the Sergeant against the Samurai?
If monks aren't military, how come "Select idle military unit" hotkey selects monks?
If Sicilians monks convert a cataphract will it get the dmg reduction? If so they would be invulnerable to halberdiers as well.