Very good. Pls take some small 8 or 16 bar pieces and we need analysis of the chord progression and cadences sir. It's very helpful to everyone..Thank you.
One of my favourite chord progression is I-iii-vi-ii because it builds tension whitout using V or vii° and still has tonic so when already built up you can just use V to I to resolute or just to I to resolute but won't build too much tension so like in sonta form it's ggod for exposition when you want tension but not that much because a lot of tension will make development not special anymore.
I feel it a different way. I think all of these weak-to-strong chord progressions: iii to I, vi to I, iii to V, that are a third apart should generally be avoided, (not just vi to I). The pairs of chords each have two notes in common and are therefore very similar, but because the first chord is 'subordinate' to the second, it loses all impact. (You could argue the same about vii° to V, but vii° sounds very much like V7b and so vii°-V-I sounds acceptable). The other way around, strong-to-weak, is okay because it is what then follows the weaker chord that matters, i.e. where the chord progression is heading. (I agree with the comment that consecutive octaves and fifths is a consideration in part writing of any chord progression, good and bad). Whilst I often agree with the 'rules', I have always wondered where the true theoretical basis for them comes from - is there some science behind it, or is it pure art?
I have written a song whose A section is mostly a repeated I-vi-ii-V, which is really cliche, but the melody in my head undeniably was those chords on repeat until the transition to the bridge. Just funny that the video title made me think about this, this probably isn't what the video is going to be about though.
Thank you very much for the very interesting lesson! @23:29, it seems to me that your search for potential consecutive 5ths or 8ves is partially wrong (but the result is correct of course), because you state that the "top and the bottom are going in opposite directions". If I understand correctly, it is perfectly possible to get a consecutive 8ve or 5th with a contrary motion. Anyway, thank you for the helpful content !
So, the piece, Minnelied by Henrich Hoffman, the final cadence goes chord VI - I and that piece otherwise is actually really conventional. So, my question is, I know you said there are exceptions if you aren't in a totally conventional harmonic framework but it's a nice sound to me as a cadence. I personally wouldn't use it in my writing as I feel it often doesn't suite my work but V-I and IV-I cadences have been done so often might nice to have a slightly different approach to a cadence. Just a thought. What do you think?
Does this take into consideration modes progressions or only applies to major scale?. Say i'm playing D Dorian and moved from Dm to C i.e from 1 to b7, the numbering changes based on the mode but the consecutive octave/P5th restriction is still there.
In D Dorian, the C chord is really nice, it can replace the V quite nice, i guess one could write songs in Dorian just using these nice chords.(An you can make a middle Part in F Ionian)
So, if one doesn't use any inversions and always plays chords in a root position (with a bass note octave below), then they will be always consecutive, right?
I'm surprised that Gareth didn't suggest the other possibility for II-I as a harmonisation of scale degree 2 to 1 (D to C here), i.e. IIb-I which sounds like a plagal cadence if the composer isn't in the mood for the obvious "so there" of a V-I, and avoids parallels, especially if the bass rises from 4 to 1 while the other parts fall.
Also, "you get a bunch of parallels if you just move from chord 1 to chord 2" applies to *any* chord progression, even V-I, if the composer just simple-mindedly shifts every part in the chord to the corresponding part in the other.
I can kind of see this ii-I loop being a moderately tense lo-fi study jam. It loops ok but feels super unresolved. Kind of boring but it could be dressed up.
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I love that regardless of the specific lessons, you always still go over the basics again, such as how the triads are made.
😀
Great Video.
Very Helpful. thanks Again.
A pleasure. Much more to assist you at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Many thanks for this!
😀
3:39 I've never seen music written down before - must be a guitarist lol. Another great, thorough and informative video. Thank you!
A pleasure
Very good. Pls take some small 8 or 16 bar pieces and we need analysis of the chord progression and cadences sir. It's very helpful to everyone..Thank you.
See our courses on the ABRSM piano grade music at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Plenty of that analysis for each piece there.
This gave the idea to finish a phrase with a faster V-VI-I on my guitar and it's quite satisfying. I will try it in a future composition.
Go for it!
I think you can do a lot like this, especially on the guitar. The guitar seems to have its own rules about chord progressions, compared to keys.
@paulschwadke223 😀
Thank you Gareth
A pleasure. Much more to assist you at www.mmcourses.co.uk
One of my favourite chord progression is I-iii-vi-ii because it builds tension whitout using V or vii° and still has tonic so when already built up you can just use V to I to resolute or just to I to resolute but won't build too much tension so like in sonta form it's ggod for exposition when you want tension but not that much because a lot of tension will make development not special anymore.
Excellent
I feel it a different way. I think all of these weak-to-strong chord progressions: iii to I, vi to I, iii to V, that are a third apart should generally be avoided, (not just vi to I). The pairs of chords each have two notes in common and are therefore very similar, but because the first chord is 'subordinate' to the second, it loses all impact. (You could argue the same about vii° to V, but vii° sounds very much like V7b and so vii°-V-I sounds acceptable).
The other way around, strong-to-weak, is okay because it is what then follows the weaker chord that matters, i.e. where the chord progression is heading.
(I agree with the comment that consecutive octaves and fifths is a consideration in part writing of any chord progression, good and bad).
Whilst I often agree with the 'rules', I have always wondered where the true theoretical basis for them comes from - is there some science behind it, or is it pure art?
An interesting way to think about it. The ‘rules’ are conclusions made in the light of what great composers have written.
I have written a song whose A section is mostly a repeated I-vi-ii-V, which is really cliche, but the melody in my head undeniably was those chords on repeat until the transition to the bridge. Just funny that the video title made me think about this, this probably isn't what the video is going to be about though.
That’s great
Thank you very much for the very interesting lesson! @23:29, it seems to me that your search for potential consecutive 5ths or 8ves is partially wrong (but the result is correct of course), because you state that the "top and the bottom are going in opposite directions". If I understand correctly, it is perfectly possible to get a consecutive 8ve or 5th with a contrary motion. Anyway, thank you for the helpful content !
Thank you. Yes theorists are divided in their thinking about contrary motion consecutives. Some are fine with them; others are not.
If it sounds right it is right
Go for it
how do I send a musical piece from my laptop is there a program to write a piece and send it to you?
If you want feedback on your piece you can book time with me at www.mmcourses.co.uk at private tuition. Then you’ll be able to send me a PDF.
Thank you
A pleasure
Many thanks.
😀
Wouldn’t your parallel octaves / fifths using the way you’ve voiced that chords be true for any combination of chords?
As you say it depends on the voice leading
Yes chords will always be naturally parallel on an instrument.
That is why we have counterpoint/ voice leading...to not do that.
@@joebloe9901 okay, so what's the problem with chord 2 to 1?
So, the piece, Minnelied by Henrich Hoffman, the final cadence goes chord VI - I and that piece otherwise is actually really conventional. So, my question is, I know you said there are exceptions if you aren't in a totally conventional harmonic framework but it's a nice sound to me as a cadence. I personally wouldn't use it in my writing as I feel it often doesn't suite my work but V-I and IV-I cadences have been done so often might nice to have a slightly different approach to a cadence. Just a thought. What do you think?
Absolutely. If it sounds good in any given situation go for it.
Does this take into consideration modes progressions or only applies to major scale?. Say i'm playing D Dorian and moved from Dm to C i.e from 1 to b7, the numbering changes based on the mode but the consecutive octave/P5th restriction is still there.
The consecutives might still exist but of course the tonality of individual chords is different in modes compared with major keys.
@@MusicMattersGB Thank you for the clarification and thank you for the rich and useful contents.
@abbesatty9498 😀
In D Dorian, the C chord is really nice, it can replace the V quite nice, i guess one could write songs in Dorian just using these nice chords.(An you can make a middle Part in F Ionian)
@paulschwadke223 Absolutely
So, if one doesn't use any inversions and always plays chords in a root position (with a bass note octave below), then they will be always consecutive, right?
It depends how you organise the chord notes above the bass.
Inversions are good for both avoiding traps and making bass players happy.
@BassPlayer60134 😀
Hello! please make a reaction video on Mozart's new piece! Would love to hear what you've got to say! 😀
😀
So is heavy metal and similar stuff "all wrong"?
Absolutely not
Metal is more likely to use modes and ostinato. Of course when it does use classical harmony it totally rocks.
@Bass60134Player 😀
When you were dealing with "V-ii", I heard that followed by "I" giving "V-ii-I".
Fair enough. ii V I would be even stronger.
@@MusicMattersGB Absolutely, the ii-V7-I is strong, but, what the heck, why not do something a bit different?
Go for it!
I'm surprised that Gareth didn't suggest the other possibility for II-I as a harmonisation of scale degree 2 to 1 (D to C here), i.e. IIb-I which sounds like a plagal cadence if the composer isn't in the mood for the obvious "so there" of a V-I, and avoids parallels, especially if the bass rises from 4 to 1 while the other parts fall.
Also, "you get a bunch of parallels if you just move from chord 1 to chord 2" applies to *any* chord progression, even V-I, if the composer just simple-mindedly shifts every part in the chord to the corresponding part in the other.
Good point
Sure
thanks gareth 👋🙂
A pleasure. Much more to assist you at www.mmcourses.co.uk
I can kind of see this ii-I loop being a moderately tense lo-fi study jam. It loops ok but feels super unresolved. Kind of boring but it could be dressed up.
There are always possibilities.
Musical police are so much more malleable than traffic police.
😀
Every chord change will have parallel octaves if you just move the chord in the scale without voice leading.
Absolutely
the title should be cadences to avoid
It’s not just cadences