I think one thing people forget is that these systems were designed for creating characters from imagination in certain styles and not for life drawing or anything like that.
Yeah I had a section in there about imagination versus from life, had to cut it for brevity. I think drawing figures from imagination, especially if doing any sort of action or pose, comes back to doing tons of drawing from life and getting those reps in so you can get intuitive proportions. So for both from life and imagination, the standards can play a useful but limited role, and still I think the halves and thirds are most useful of them for drawing from imagination too
@@lovelifedrawing I agree. It was more just an observation. Though the proportion guides were made mostly for consistency. I tend to only see them when dealing with turnarounds and similar static posing.
I agree. I believe Andrew Loomis said that there were three types of measurements for the human body depending on what somebody was drawing for. However, I found it all bewildering and I felt like a bit of a failure not remembering to adhere to those measurements. Now I feel like it doesn’t really matter. Thanks for another thought provoking vid
people also seem to forget these are general guidelines, just like using things like the eye width to measure the face. everyone has slightly different proportions and certainly everyone looks different. these guidelines were never meant to be hard rules to follow, but loose guides to judge your drawings against if they are looking off.
This guy is awesome. I need to get out of my head and get back into art. It's been years. His videos have tackled most of the roadblocks that discouraged me.
The things that've stuck with me most over the last 8 years of my art journey in terms of proportion and perspective are those that I had to learn the hard way: 1. The subject that you are viewing never gets any larger outside of its base length or volume; the only reasons that it'll change is that it is dependent on your position in relation to the subject, your eye and/or if you're viewing the subject through different focal lengths of camera lenses. 2. Camera lense distortion aside, if you understand how to divide things in perspective we always divide them in half especially in relation to a vanishing point and the closer the subject viewed is to that vanishing point. Once you get the idea of measurement from your studies and understand that it's just a baseline to go off of, you can do what you want in terms of proportion as long you understand the proportions you designated for yourself if you make your own subjects up from imagination. 2D animators also use something called arcs to keep proportions in check when rotating subjects in space. Some food for thought.
I studied fashion design for a while (I dropped out n.n') and in drawing classes, we were told to do 8-head figures. I remember some of the homework was to make drawings from pictures and translate the figures to that sizing, and they didn't look like real humans at all. They made the point it was to get the fashion look and create standing poses from imagination. As you mention it was really hard to apply those rules to other poses.
Standard proportions are very helpful when drawing from imagination. Proportional heuristics are helpful when things are off and you need to know where to look
the halves and thirds are super helpful. The reilly method puts another wrench into it all. love that you always bring up your mom into this. she super talented
Overtime our eye becomes much better at estimating, and ultimately we want this to be our best tool. The standard proportions are scaffolding that help train the eye, and are worth reviewing every once in a while.
A while back when i was reading Da Vinci's "Treatise on Painting", he talked a lot about proportions and about how a whole body is 8 heads long and etc. which just overwhelmed me, but liking drawing as much as i do i obviously wasn't gonna stop learning drawing the figure just because it seemed hard and i kept just drawing by simply observing the body with my eyes and i think i've learned a lot. Over the 2 years of me drawing i had a lot encounters like this with other things which overwhelmed me so much but simply giving your time to it and learning it, or if it's nothing important understanding that it isn't important helps you further progress. And that's really the difference between people who become artists and others who don't, it all seems too hard and complicated. Only drawing and watching videos - which include yours - help a lot.
Great video, as always! For me the thirds and halves, together with the skulls helps me tremendously. As I work with animation, knowing roughly where characters articulate is crucial, and the canons help with that. On the other hand, when drawing from life, these ideas only take you so far, and often don’t help as much as other tools, such as gesture, positive and negative spaces, shapes, etc. I would love to hear you talk more about drawing from memory vs imagination, and how they relate to studying from life. Again, great video, beautiful drawings 🙌 thank you both for sharing!
Thanks Ricardo great insights! We have a video we made with an artist called Simon Luty about a memory drawing exercise but definitely a topic I’d like to explore more
To me was so liberating when in high school we used to be drawing rustic landscapes and it wasn't a requirement to make things an 100% accurate representation BUT the moment I was drawing people, regardless of context, well... Let's say I had to pretend my 6 and 3 quarter headed tall male model had to appear 7 and a half, no question asked :/
@@lovelifedrawing I'm having fun with drawing for the most part 7 heads tall. I go back to 7 and a half for 35+ year old people thought 😅 I'm a hobbyist character designer
Thank you for this video. I've never been a technical person and I've always struggled with drawing with these rules. Even from imagination I'd found that starting with the eyes then building up from that can get me better results than drawing the Loomis head first. It's so strange.
Nicolaïdes actually said that is better to have a sense of proportion rather tan a strict formula of it. I read somewhere else the importance of learn it by heart then toss it away: in short ideal proportions are just that and can really help while drawing from imagination, either way all knowledge is good as long as you don't take it too literal in your work. The main issue, and I can totally relate at the beginning of my art journey, is the safety this concept brings in your first attempst. Luckily when I dive in gesture drawing and foreshortened poses, I immediately saw the limits of this approach. Great video as always!
Finding this channel has REALLY been quite the revelation! I find nearly everything Kenzo says to be extremely relatable, reinforcing, and entertaining! I'm at the point where I trying to reinvent myself as an artist after years of setbacks, disappointments, and lapses. This is the first artist channel I've come across that actually GETS that experience and attempts to address it on so many levels, which is awesome beyond words! It's incredibly encouraging to hear from someone that has had a very similar journey and has reached the other side. I'm just beginning to give this another shot, but the content has already been helpful in resetting my mindset and embracing building my skill in a more constructive way. Case in point, this proportions video has introduced a way of examining one of the more perplexing points of my previous setbacks and offering a very welcoming approach to it. But it's what Kenzo said near the end of the video that sticks out with me most. For years, I tried to improve by taking a more analytical and academic approach, which didn't produce the results I desired. Had I viewed drawing as more like a sport, who knows the progress I could have made by now? Such insight with clarity has not been easy to obtain, and I'm all the more grateful I got a chance to stumble into this channel for it. I can't make any promises on my results, since I'm basically trying to reset and start at the beginning again, but I can say that I truly appreciate what this channel offers. You're both doing a tremendous service to fledgling artists, Kenzo and Mayko. Superb work!
@lovelifedrawing My teacher taught me to use a plumb line method. Find a vertical and horizontal or what she used call a key shape that was a ‘constant’ and compare that. I remember being swayed by The Andrew Loomis figure drawing book and completely failing and frustrated! So I returned to what I know best and your awesome sauce video has kind of captured the deal for me of just using my eyes, practice and reflect.
Thank God. I was beginning to think i just dont get it somehow. Because i am totally with you: it makes more sense this way. Especially, if you start to draw way more stylized people and creatures, those basic proportions are somewhat useless and your way to see it helps much, much more.
Eres un genio Kenzo!!! Tu pasión la transmites y ayudas enormemente a los que estamos comenzando a recorrer éste camino. Decirte Gracias tal vez no alcance, pero es lo mas que se puede expresar en palabras. Thanks!!!
It's just what I was looking for! I started drawing consistently a month ago and it's going quite well. But I always have the doubt floating around, which is better and where do I start? Boxes, anatomy, studies, perspective and how I put the proportions that I learn in anatomy in the box and then in the studies how I mix it, because I do them mostly in lines, not in geometric shapes. Well this helps a lot, if I could ask you for some advice on how to untangle all this it would help me a lot!
Nice points. I never thought of these anatomy systems as a rule, but just as a **generic** guide to start from, if you want some reassurance you're not wayyy off, mainly when sketching from imagination. But I definitely just relied on direct observation when beginning.
found this video while constructing an eight heads figure haha. thanks for speaking on this but now i wonder if i should continue reading the Andrew Loomis book i have. i know i need to develop some form of individuality with my art and that i should approach each subject differently but i always feel like when starting off i must confine myself to these really specific measurements.
I just use the blocking method with shapes and look at it if it feels right, usually I adjust it a few times until it does. I've learned proportions in school but anytime I used them, it feels off to me and I still end up adjusting them.
People head ratio usually range from 6,5 to about 8 heads tall, REGARDLESS their height. Two people with the same height may have different head ratio. a tall person may have a lower head ratio than a short person. you should also consider the height of the pubic region, that changes too, regardless the height.
I think learning standard proportions are usefull,at least for beginners like me, gonna need a lot of practice to be free from them, like learning to ride a bike with training wheels :v.
Roughly and a little bit is difficult especially for beginners because they don’t have the experience to put roughly and a little bit in context. The proportions that Loomis, Hamm, Bridgman teach are a framework that learners can refer to to gauge whether their intuition is correct
I like Michael Hampton's system, Draw the gesture Add the landmarks Add the volume Add the anatomy Add the lighting Boom done, a gesturally proportioned, non stiff figure!
Hi Kenzo and Maiko! Do u have any tips for sketching people outside? I've been trying for a while, but is so hard, and so different from drawing observing a timed model; cause people is always moviing and the clothes, and aaahhh Send help q w q
Do the 15 second exercises. Then, draw the models who pose with clothes on. You have to pay to get in the croquis cafe but seriously it’s only $3 per month but pay for a year. It’s worth it.
To be honest Stephanie I don’t sketch people outside too much but it’s a cool thing to do. I imagine the comment above is a good suggestion - quick sketching plus sketching with clothing. We do have a couple of videos from figuary 2020 on our channel about sketching moving people
@@lovelifedrawing omg thank you ~ yes I think that is cool! But perhaps, is just that I am a beginner, will take some time ~ For sure will do that kind of practices
I was told by an instructor when drawing anything from real life that i didn’t need to LEARN proportion or perspective because i had it innately. I guess I’m fortunate and i did find out that there was a recognized artist in the family 2 generations my senior but never met her. is it possible to inherit artist abilities?
You can’t really inherit artistic abilities but you can inherit traits that might lead you to better develop artistic abilities and be drawn more to art. Also, the way we’re raised impacts that too.
@@genericname8727 I tend to agree with this. There has to be some kind of heuristic you develop from learning certain skillsets at an early age. Some people can just pick up a pencil or instrument after months and produce something that'd make you think they never put it down. It's bizarre.
Wow this really helped a lot. I know subconsciously I knew that not one body is the same and it’s okay to go outside ‘the rules’ but it is indeed nice to hear a professional say it out loud~~~
I think one thing people forget is that these systems were designed for creating characters from imagination in certain styles and not for life drawing or anything like that.
Yeah I had a section in there about imagination versus from life, had to cut it for brevity. I think drawing figures from imagination, especially if doing any sort of action or pose, comes back to doing tons of drawing from life and getting those reps in so you can get intuitive proportions. So for both from life and imagination, the standards can play a useful but limited role, and still I think the halves and thirds are most useful of them for drawing from imagination too
@@lovelifedrawing I agree. It was more just an observation. Though the proportion guides were made mostly for consistency. I tend to only see them when dealing with turnarounds and similar static posing.
I agree. I believe Andrew Loomis said that there were three types of measurements for the human body depending on what somebody was drawing for. However, I found it all bewildering and I felt like a bit of a failure not remembering to adhere to those measurements. Now I feel like it doesn’t really matter. Thanks for another thought provoking vid
people also seem to forget these are general guidelines, just like using things like the eye width to measure the face. everyone has slightly different proportions and certainly everyone looks different. these guidelines were never meant to be hard rules to follow, but loose guides to judge your drawings against if they are looking off.
This guy is awesome. I need to get out of my head and get back into art. It's been years. His videos have tackled most of the roadblocks that discouraged me.
Hey that’s awesome! Good luck with it and don’t be discouraged if it isn’t working out at first!
The things that've stuck with me most over the last 8 years of my art journey in terms of proportion and perspective are those that I had to learn the hard way: 1. The subject that you are viewing never gets any larger outside of its base length or volume; the only reasons that it'll change is that it is dependent on your position in relation to the subject, your eye and/or if you're viewing the subject through different focal lengths of camera lenses. 2. Camera lense distortion aside, if you understand how to divide things in perspective we always divide them in half especially in relation to a vanishing point and the closer the subject viewed is to that vanishing point. Once you get the idea of measurement from your studies and understand that it's just a baseline to go off of, you can do what you want in terms of proportion as long you understand the proportions you designated for yourself if you make your own subjects up from imagination. 2D animators also use something called arcs to keep proportions in check when rotating subjects in space. Some food for thought.
I studied fashion design for a while (I dropped out n.n') and in drawing classes, we were told to do 8-head figures. I remember some of the homework was to make drawings from pictures and translate the figures to that sizing, and they didn't look like real humans at all. They made the point it was to get the fashion look and create standing poses from imagination. As you mention it was really hard to apply those rules to other poses.
Standard proportions are very helpful when drawing from imagination. Proportional heuristics are helpful when things are off and you need to know where to look
the halves and thirds are super helpful. The reilly method puts another wrench into it all. love that you always bring up your mom into this. she super talented
Overtime our eye becomes much better at estimating, and ultimately we want this to be our best tool. The standard proportions are scaffolding that help train the eye, and are worth reviewing every once in a while.
A while back when i was reading Da Vinci's "Treatise on Painting", he talked a lot about proportions and about how a whole body is 8 heads long and etc. which just overwhelmed me, but liking drawing as much as i do i obviously wasn't gonna stop learning drawing the figure just because it seemed hard and i kept just drawing by simply observing the body with my eyes and i think i've learned a lot.
Over the 2 years of me drawing i had a lot encounters like this with other things which overwhelmed me so much but simply giving your time to it and learning it, or if it's nothing important understanding that it isn't important helps you further progress. And that's really the difference between people who become artists and others who don't, it all seems too hard and complicated.
Only drawing and watching videos - which include yours - help a lot.
Great video, as always! For me the thirds and halves, together with the skulls helps me tremendously. As I work with animation, knowing roughly where characters articulate is crucial, and the canons help with that. On the other hand, when drawing from life, these ideas only take you so far, and often don’t help as much as other tools, such as gesture, positive and negative spaces, shapes, etc.
I would love to hear you talk more about drawing from memory vs imagination, and how they relate to studying from life. Again, great video, beautiful drawings 🙌 thank you both for sharing!
Thanks Ricardo great insights! We have a video we made with an artist called Simon Luty about a memory drawing exercise but definitely a topic I’d like to explore more
To me was so liberating when in high school we used to be drawing rustic landscapes and it wasn't a requirement to make things an 100% accurate representation BUT the moment I was drawing people, regardless of context, well... Let's say I had to pretend my 6 and 3 quarter headed tall male model had to appear 7 and a half, no question asked :/
Oh wow and how about when you draw now?
@@lovelifedrawing I'm having fun with drawing for the most part 7 heads tall. I go back to 7 and a half for 35+ year old people thought 😅 I'm a hobbyist character designer
Thank you for this video. I've never been a technical person and I've always struggled with drawing with these rules. Even from imagination I'd found that starting with the eyes then building up from that can get me better results than drawing the Loomis head first. It's so strange.
Nicolaïdes actually said that is better to have a sense of proportion rather tan a strict formula of it. I read somewhere else the importance of learn it by heart then toss it away: in short ideal proportions are just that and can really help while drawing from imagination, either way all knowledge is good as long as you don't take it too literal in your work.
The main issue, and I can totally relate at the beginning of my art journey, is the safety this concept brings in your first attempst. Luckily when I dive in gesture drawing and foreshortened poses, I immediately saw the limits of this approach. Great video as always!
Finding this channel has REALLY been quite the revelation! I find nearly everything Kenzo says to be extremely relatable, reinforcing, and entertaining! I'm at the point where I trying to reinvent myself as an artist after years of setbacks, disappointments, and lapses. This is the first artist channel I've come across that actually GETS that experience and attempts to address it on so many levels, which is awesome beyond words! It's incredibly encouraging to hear from someone that has had a very similar journey and has reached the other side. I'm just beginning to give this another shot, but the content has already been helpful in resetting my mindset and embracing building my skill in a more constructive way.
Case in point, this proportions video has introduced a way of examining one of the more perplexing points of my previous setbacks and offering a very welcoming approach to it. But it's what Kenzo said near the end of the video that sticks out with me most. For years, I tried to improve by taking a more analytical and academic approach, which didn't produce the results I desired. Had I viewed drawing as more like a sport, who knows the progress I could have made by now? Such insight with clarity has not been easy to obtain, and I'm all the more grateful I got a chance to stumble into this channel for it.
I can't make any promises on my results, since I'm basically trying to reset and start at the beginning again, but I can say that I truly appreciate what this channel offers. You're both doing a tremendous service to fledgling artists, Kenzo and Mayko. Superb work!
6:26, these major landmarks are so helpful
Thank you again for another wonderful video. This was exactly what I needed to hear and see.
@lovelifedrawing My teacher taught me to use a plumb line method. Find a vertical and horizontal or what she used call a key shape that was a ‘constant’ and compare that. I remember being swayed by The Andrew Loomis figure drawing book and completely failing and frustrated! So I returned to what I know best and your awesome sauce video has kind of captured the deal for me of just using my eyes, practice and reflect.
Thank you, Kenzo! I was happy to rewatch this, I completely agree with you, and find joy in doing intuitive work!!
Very good video! It is so good to hear someone speak for a non-(only)constructive approach to drawing.
I love the dog, the cutest on the video!
Thank God. I was beginning to think i just dont get it somehow. Because i am totally with you: it makes more sense this way. Especially, if you start to draw way more stylized people and creatures, those basic proportions are somewhat useless and your way to see it helps much, much more.
Eres un genio Kenzo!!! Tu pasión la transmites y ayudas enormemente a los que estamos comenzando a recorrer éste camino. Decirte Gracias tal vez no alcance, pero es lo mas que se puede expresar en palabras. Thanks!!!
Hey thanks so much Sergio!
It's just what I was looking for! I started drawing consistently a month ago and it's going quite well. But I always have the doubt floating around, which is better and where do I start?
Boxes, anatomy, studies, perspective and how I put the proportions that I learn in anatomy in the box and then in the studies how I mix it, because I do them mostly in lines, not in geometric shapes. Well this helps a lot, if I could ask you for some advice on how to untangle all this it would help me a lot!
Thanks a lot Kenzo. Your work is great !
Nice points.
I never thought of these anatomy systems as a rule, but just as a **generic** guide to start from, if you want some reassurance you're not wayyy off, mainly when sketching from imagination.
But I definitely just relied on direct observation when beginning.
found this video while constructing an eight heads figure haha. thanks for speaking on this but now i wonder if i should continue reading the Andrew Loomis book i have. i know i need to develop some form of individuality with my art and that i should approach each subject differently but i always feel like when starting off i must confine myself to these really specific measurements.
I just use the blocking method with shapes and look at it if it feels right, usually I adjust it a few times until it does. I've learned proportions in school but anytime I used them, it feels off to me and I still end up adjusting them.
Having some general rules you follow also helps you see exceptions clearly.
wish school taught it like that, thanks!
Gracias 🙏
I like using the 3rds it's easier for me
People head ratio usually range from 6,5 to about 8 heads tall, REGARDLESS their height.
Two people with the same height may have different head ratio.
a tall person may have a lower head ratio than a short person.
you should also consider the height of the pubic region, that changes too, regardless the height.
I think learning standard proportions are usefull,at least for beginners like me, gonna need a lot of practice to be free from them, like learning to ride a bike with training wheels :v.
I think that’s totally fair and a good way to get things started
Roughly and a little bit is difficult especially for beginners because they don’t have the experience to put roughly and a little bit in context. The proportions that Loomis, Hamm, Bridgman teach are a framework that learners can refer to to gauge whether their intuition is correct
I like Michael Hampton's system,
Draw the gesture
Add the landmarks
Add the volume
Add the anatomy
Add the lighting
Boom done, a gesturally proportioned, non stiff figure!
I find that being too strict and accurate always makes my image looks super stiff and boring. so being very vague with my interpretation helps.
Wait a second.. Did you draw the grey on the models??? HOW COME I'M JUST SEEING THIS NOW what 😱
Hi Kenzo and Maiko!
Do u have any tips for sketching people outside?
I've been trying for a while, but is so hard, and so different from drawing observing a timed model; cause people is always moviing and the clothes, and aaahhh
Send help q w q
Do the 15 second exercises. Then, draw the models who pose with clothes on. You have to pay to get in the croquis cafe but seriously it’s only $3 per month but pay for a year. It’s worth it.
To be honest Stephanie I don’t sketch people outside too much but it’s a cool thing to do. I imagine the comment above is a good suggestion - quick sketching plus sketching with clothing. We do have a couple of videos from figuary 2020 on our channel about sketching moving people
@@lovelifedrawing omg thank you ~ yes I think that is cool! But perhaps, is just that I am a beginner, will take some time ~
For sure will do that kind of practices
@@lovelifedrawing also thank you for creating amazing videos with so useful information, tons of love
@@Teewriter Thank you ~
Will start doing those practices
And for sure Croquis cafe is 100000% worth it!!
You're the guy I learn from.
It's arms and legs length I'm struggling with at the moment.
BTW, how far can you throw that dog toy?!
Hehe across half the park!
Gran bel video!
I think that even academic subject are like sports. You need to practice the ideas and memorize them is not going to take you anywhere.
I was told by an instructor when drawing anything from real life that i didn’t need to LEARN proportion or perspective because i had it innately. I guess I’m fortunate and i did find out that there was a recognized artist in the family 2 generations my senior but never met her. is it possible to inherit artist abilities?
You can’t really inherit artistic abilities but you can inherit traits that might lead you to better develop artistic abilities and be drawn more to art. Also, the way we’re raised impacts that too.
@@genericname8727 I’ve had a passion for drawing since i was five and still do. I’m in my 70’s and I’m still passionate and I’m still learning.
Yes. Many common interest and therefore talent for that interest run in the family. Many families with several Doctors, policemen, or lawyers. Etc.
@@genericname8727 I tend to agree with this. There has to be some kind of heuristic you develop from learning certain skillsets at an early age. Some people can just pick up a pencil or instrument after months and produce something that'd make you think they never put it down. It's bizarre.
Brad was right you guys are great:)
Thanks Saman!
Wow this really helped a lot. I know subconsciously I knew that not one body is the same and it’s okay to go outside ‘the rules’ but it is indeed nice to hear a professional say it out loud~~~
Where can i look to buy the classes?
Love life drawing has a website, link in the description.
Hi our course will open for enrolment next in September. Until then there’s lots on our channel - I recommend figuary 2021 10 part series!
something so obvious I feel blind for not noticing
I learn every section of the body, proportion, shapes etc. Then I just eye ball everything.
hi
Counting heads is so draining...
"Drawing Career"
Decades later...
Quite simple really...Here's what you do...
none of these proportion are real people is deiffrent size and shape
Please say "at the end of the day" only once or less per video! thanks
이것도 많이 도움이 되네요.. 열심히 공부중입니다.