@@TommoMcCluskey yes but isnt it also in a way good the place isnt captured by a backmarker nor a front row runner i tink it depends on Who takes the place if it is andretti yes sell it immediatly but if it is a dat of a driver like dimitri mazepin no dont sell it
@@isabellthreesixty only because Toro Rosso had Ferrari engine and Red Bull had Renault already. Franz Tost mentions it on Beyond the Grid when he was talking about Sebastian's victory in Monza
Is this the start of Tommo's grand plan to tell us that he's just bought Alpha Tauri from Red Bull, rebranding it to Tommo Racing and slapping Minton's face on the sidepod?
I'd also add I think RedBull no longer sees the need for a junior team. Seeing how Mercedes was able to put Russell in a Williams and test him out. I think they are banking on being able to use other teams to run junior drivers when needed. Instead of bring up a bunch of talent that than leaves for other teams. Think about how many of their drivers have gone to other teams.
I think this makes a lot of sense, I think it works for merc because of their consistent winning record or at least at the sharp end of the grid and now that redbull is cementing that for themselves more and more, the need for a junior "sister" team is less important
Smart thinking, they have some spare cash because of the budget cap... They can spend that on getting their driver a seat in a smaller team instead of a full junior team.
I love AlphaTauri and I have no idea why. I've always loved the colors and liveries. It would definitely make sense for them to sell to Andretti but I selfishly want them to stay. I'll probably feel different once Pierre heads out 🤷
It is my favorite logo, kind of hope more teams can get some wipeout/futuristic racing logo. Though probably not since most are current day car company
Earlier controversy was mainly about Toro Rosso using old Red Bull designs, which made teams like Williams accuse them of not being a proper constructor. That hasn't been an issue for years now though.
tbf i think it was only psychos and salty Lewis fans who thought it was a real conspiracy. Everyone else thought it was just a weird and unfortunate run of events
@@dylansmit3883 ...they literally used to have the year old chassis from RB haha. The baby Ferrari, some called it, because of the Ferrari PU and excellent inherited chassis.
The biggest clue for me is that Helmut said Red Bull Power Trains will be able to provide engines for 4 teams. This could solve the issue with placing junior drivers in a F1 seat.
Until now I always thought of it as a fair balance to the power of the engine manufacture teams, now it should be used to open up the ownership. I think Andretti and Honda go WAY back and would be good hands for the team.
I also think that branding them as a "sister", instead of a "junior" team, makes it more of an appealing team to buy. Mystery F1 TH-camr link: th-cam.com/video/u-5V6cNrguI/w-d-xo.html
why cant RB just not have 2 of the same cars? imagine the scurry to get one of those seats, and the advertising potential of running 2 mechanical similar teams and the increased podium potential
Honda isn’t actually all in on EV. They’ve always been more invested in Hydrogen fuel cells, same as Toyota. Why would RBR build a state of the art power plant factory/facility just to revert back to Honda, who definitely won’t move their engineering out of Japan?
I’ve always been more of a fan of Toro Rosso/Alphatauri than the main team. I’ve loved the white and navy as it stood out more and the toro Rosso colors at Singapore were gorgeous. Sucks to see it get sold but if it means more resources that are more dedicated towards winning than it’s good
It has been rumoured for some time that RB will sell Alphatauri to either Andretti/Honda or Porsche The andretti Honda thing kinda makes sense since andretti wants to be in F1 and Honda wants to be back in F1 supplying engines to teams and the FIA isn't keen on making andretti enter as a new 11th team so buying alphatauri is a good idea But on the other hand there's Porsche who needs to find a team to buy and alphatauri is the perfect opportunity for them to enter
when did honda say they want to be back again? didn't they only decided to leave like a couple years ago? if that's true these people can't make up their mind 😂
@@Enra000 it's been going on for a long time since the end of last season they want to be back in F1 Even RB cancelled the deal with Porsche to be with Honda so yeah they can't make up their minds
@@Enra000 Red Bull actually said it, it's been talked about for a couple months already, Marko is actually meeting with Honda in October to go over their plans for 2026. Honda is still committed to building the Red Bull & Alpha Tauri PUs until the end of 2025, but I suspect they're going to commit to 2026 as well.
It’d be nice if RB kept strongish ties with whatever team they sold AT to if it were to happen, maybe on an engine supplier deal if they’re sticking with RBPT. Similar to what Ferrari has with Haas and Sauber, they’d still have a pathway for their junior drivers but in a team with its own identity and ceiling
I think the fact that red bull is starting to run out of candidates to push through Alpha Tauri would definitely help push them to actively search for a buyer. Also like you said with Max being the main teams present and future even if they had a promising young driver its disadvantageous for them to provide a stepping stone team just for them to be shipped off somewhere besides Red Bull.
I think in terms of branding the team being called "Torro Rosso" was better for marketing than "Alpha Tauri" which feels like a test/pilot project to see which shit sticks to the wall. Now they will sell it since for the first time in a while good buyrs are out there - even 4 of them)
For me the change from junior team to sister team was driven by the cost cap. Since red bull was spending half as much on the red bull f1 team that money could now go to alpha tauri and they could be competitive. So after the cost cap their total expenditure has gone down between the two teams and there's a reasonable chance they'll have two more competitive teams. So in order to attract better talent (driver and engineer) they needed to change the language.
For me it'll be a shame if AT gets sold as chances are that'll bring the shutters down to the old Faenza base. Saying that, for that old Minardi HQ to have kept going almost 40 years is Very impressive, nothing last forever in F1, especially not history. But considering how exorbitant it would cost to set up a completely new team, taking over a team like that or Sauber is pretty much the only way to get new teams into the sport now so I guess it is kind of inevitable
Andretti-Honda sounds pretty darn appealing, especially to this US F1/Indycar superfan. :-) Andretti was my first team, and you never forget your first love. They'd also have a US driver with F1 experience ready to go, in Alexander Rossi.
I agree having Andretti on the F1 grid would be great, but Alexander Rossi isn't part of the Andrertti team anymore. He'd going to be running a third car for Arrow McLaren SP next year.
The problem with Alpha Tauri for any potential buyer is that it's based in Italy. That's requires a buyer to adapt themselves to the infrastructure of the Faenza team or fork out relocating the whole operation and I doubt a lot of Italy-based team members would move away from their home country. Same goes for getting say a Brit to move to Italy to work for the team, especially ones with families. James Allison leaving Ferrari in 2016 was in part to being away from his kids and family.
This is my main roadblock with them selling up. Could Honda/Andretti take AT over? Sure, but having an American or a Japanese team being based in Italy would surely create some problems, they'd want to relocate which would cost a bomb.
Hey Tommo, this was GREAT content. For someone who doesn't have time to research the details or nuances of F1, but is curious to hear, I thought you did a great job summarizing your ideas and why they make sense in reality. Thanks! I think it's realistic, and would definitely add a layer of spice to the grid. I'm all for more teams (yes, this isn't truly more, but essentially it is)!
I like the idea of Andretti taking it over, would be handy for them to try and get US talent in too and possibly getting Honda in as Engine Suppliers. Although, it'd be cool to see one of the F2 teams come up like Prema, ART, Carlin or what have you into F1. I reckon Prema could take a good punt at it so m a y b e they could buy AT? I know they've got pretty big operation going as it is at the moment with Junior teams and WEC. Talked myself into another option init there geezah?
7:27 I've never thought to make the Ferrari/Red Bull comparison before... Very fast and promising European driver, shaking off a bad reputation on track? Check Maverick British technical director/designer? Check Latin American driver in a clear no. 2 role? Checo
You made concise, salient points regarding the potential sale of Alpha Tauri, which I agree with. I think since the proposed deal between Porsche and Red Bull fell through, the outright purchase of Alpha Tauri becomes a realistic possibility. The new cost cap and ratified 2026 engine regulations are in place, this is the most attractive time to enter F1, with the only caveat being increasing interest rates by central banks to combat inflation. I still find the possible dual entry into F1 by Audi and Porsche to be economically perplexing, as they are part of the Volkswagen Automotive Group ownership. The last time a similar situation occurred in top flight motorsport was in WRC with Citroën and Peugeot in the early 2000s. The dual entry did not continue much beyond the early 2000s, since it was not financially sustainable. The Red Bull Alpha Tauri dual entry in F1 only works, as Alpha Tauri is not a direct competitor to Red Bull.
i love seeing the colour scheme of AT on the cars as well as drivers and team personell. i really like AT in general. i would be sad to see it leave f1 but you make good points.
The question of does alpha tauri help redbull is so clear cut to me. Look at every time last year lewis came up on yuki or pierre. It didn't matter how much they compromised their own race they held up lewis at all costs. There were elements of williams doing something similar to max on occasion but it was much less often (partially because the williams was so rarely in front of a red bull). I think this grey area is so difficult to police that it should be illegal for one entity to own two teams. There were even times when lapping the ATs last year that lewis got a bit held up, even if it was only marginal since they only have 3 corners before a penalty. You can still kill the momentum of the car trying to lap you and make it look somewhat legitimate and get away with it. And of course every time max came up they jumped out of the way at all costs
Quite ridiculous. Alpha Tauri is a clothing brand (created by Red Bull) who is Scuderia main sponsor. So no, it won't be sold - could get a different engine supplier perhaps (in order to separate the teams - still doubtful) but it definitely won't be sold.
I think they will sell it. Probably not this year, but eventually they will sell it, and honestly Honda hasn't been in the sport as a team itself since 2008 I believe, and they might give it another shot, after winning (presumably) two WDC and one WCC with RedBull as their engine manufacturer. And let's be honest, It would be cool to have another new team, instead of 9 teams and 1 'Junior' or 'sister' team.
I think you're wrong about them selling the team, but rather with how strong the team has been in the recent years, aside from this one, they might act more as an independent team, but still be owned by Rebull Technologies. Like how you said, AT whole fashion line is about minimalism, being a tiny sticker on a car covered in ads isn't very minimalist, their whole brand promotion works exceptionally well when they have their own team.
My genius idea of bringing the Williams name back on top: Step 1: Dorilton sells off the current Williams team but keep the name Step 2: They buy Alpha Tauri Step 3: Rename Alpha Tauri back to Williams (since they still own the name) Step 4: ??? Step 5: Williams back on top (of the midfield)
I think whoever buys AlphaTauri will stick with the Red Bull PowerTrains, which might be what RB wants anyway, like Marko said them being able to supply to more teams. Also wonder if any current teams are looking to switch to RBPT's anyway. I think if any current team will do it, it might be Haas or Aston Martin
I'm not gonna lie as someone who has just been a fan of Formula 1 since 2020, it feels weird seeing AlphaTauri as a clothing brand when you've only seen them as a racing team.
Tag Heuer branded the Porsche engines in the mid 80s Mclarens if I remember correctly. Funny how that's changed and now Porsche doesn't want to build an engine just brand one lol
I agree with all the points you have made I think its all valid. For me I don't see AT as a "Junior team/B team/boot camp team" This is F1 you're not learning here you're doing the real thing. If you're not trying to make strides to the podium as a team and driver (at least having a track record in top 10 consistently) you need to go back to F2. Personally I think RB's academy is over saturated with too many drivers and no one truly has sunk their teeth into AT/TR and "earned" their way onto RB with the exception of Seb (even then you can call his BMW past more of an academy than TR) Max was a one run wonder. They rest all saw the writing on the wall and bounced to save their career RIC, SAI. Don't get me wrong its a lot of politics, liking, drama etc but still what does that leave AT to be? Not badgering Yuki But if this academy was truly proven 2023 he would be signing with RB if not at the very heels of Checo (Which they had to outsource to make up for their lack in proven academy drivers) In the meantime Yuki should be one with AT developing and working major overtime with the engineers Schumacher 1998 style to bring the best of the team. Which I highly doubt instead probably playing COD etc. This doesn't go directly to RB/At I think its a major flaw across the board in F1, they should roll out a whole lot more training and academy programs in 2 year back non development cars to get F2 drivers up to speed, it should be on a separate budget. Look at half of the drivers when rain hits..... all the old souls ALO, HAM, PER, VET immediate advance their position from the youngins. -coming from a Lando/200-2008 fan
I think Red Bull would have sold a few years ago but now with the budget cap and all teams being profitable, I don't think they'll sell It's not ideal a team being owned by the same company but it's no big deal. At least with Red Bull they have done a lot for F1, they've poured millions into the sport and stayed when most teams was losing money. They've backed hundreds of young drivers, giving them a chance I'm junior categories and then in F1. Any new team you aren't guaranteed how much commitment they'll have
With now teams having "technical partnership" with each other, the strongest reason for red bull not to sell alfa tauri is so they can easily provide a seat for prodigious talent like max, george, and charles. In short, piastri will race this year if he's under red bull junior program coz they can easily cancel or not renew yuki's contract
That may be the Porsche partnership that Red Bull would be comfortable with, and they could (barring a re-entry by Honda) conceivably still pair up in RB Powertrains. Porsche gets into F1 and RB doesn't cede control of their team to anyone. Sounds like a potential win-win.
Andretti Autosport would be a nice addition to the grid, and this could be their way in, since they don't seem to be able to convince the FIA and the existing teams that they would be good for the sport. Taking over an existing team that is already not a constructor, like Sauber, which fell through, would be a good way for them to enter. There is no issue with splitting the prize money with another team, and it brings an American team on to the grid, and would bring an American driver at a time when F1 popularity is surging in the U.S.
Mate there is budget cup. Now is the trend to have sister teams or "b" teams. Just like Haas to Ferrari, Aston Martin and Williams to Mercedes. Red Bull has one of the calmest situations. They can easily split the work on the car to alpha tauri and get the parts to RB to save budget. Alpin is in a tight spot right now.
I think they will hold on to them well in to the next generation of cars. They will be able to try out more setups and remain competitive. The cost cap is restricting teams on how much they can do to the car. it’s not like they don’t have the extra cash seeing as how they are breaking the cost cap now.
Given that alpha tauri is Italian it would be cool if a historical Italian marque bought them , like Alfa Romeo, Maserati etc. f1 needs more teams not based in Britain
Audio 'professional' here. There is a significant drop in bass when you speak that far with your current microphone, though interestingly the rest of the frequency range are preserved, which makes the audio sound tinny. Noticed this during your livestream.
it will make sense, after all no junior driver have been able to perform to the level of the main team, hence why they looked to the free market for second drivers
Don't forget about Red Bull Powertrains. Beginning in 2026 they can push their Junior program by supplying other teamss with their engine + their drivers.....They have leverage, they did not have before. So Alpha Tauri will make even less sense
Tommo can you do a video where you go back and see what your best and worst predictions were? Like I’m terms of which ones came to be and which ones were just so far off. Would be interesting 😄
NO MOAR VIRGENS! I wasn't actually familiar with the change of language from Junior to Sister team - that is VERY interesting. Who reckons Flavio Briatore will buy the team? Also - I think that the Power Unit suppliers have more influence over their customers. Not Merc putting de Vries in ALL of their customer teams!
For 15 years toro rosso and alpha tauri have been one team we knew would never fight at the front due to their red bull connection and status-with new owners the team could have at least some potential
To answer your question Tommo why the WDC carries more weight than WCC is because of the lineage in the sport. The WDC is the original championship that you can trace all the way to the beginning whereas the WCC came in later
Alpine should look into it as a potential customer team / sister team. Then they might also be able to give some of their academy drivers a run instead of what we're seeing this season. They don't have enough seats to bring their talent through.
Just on the constructor’s thing and no one caring about it; sure WE don’t care about it, but the teams get their money from where they finish in the constructors. That’s why you’ll even see teams fight for like seventh in the standings cause it means more to them
I think Alfa Romeo could be an interesting buyer aswell. They will leave Sauber and said their future in F1 is still open. Buying Alpha Tauri would be a good fit because of it's Faenza base since Alfa Romeo is italian aswell.
Not like something is broken and it needs to be fixed, but after watching this I think it would be great if RB sold AT to Andretti. Italians, Honda engines in Indy already, and they want Herta in F1 too. Maybe that's why Marko wanted him at AT Have AlphaTauri (as a clothing brand now) sponsor either RB or Andretti, or both if it's possible, and as someone in the comments said, RB create actual junior teams in F2/F3
I think the future of f1 is bright, can see Porsche buying Alpha Tauri and launching in 2026 alongside Audi who have took Sauber/Alpha Romeo when the new engine regs come in. I reckon Andretti will be allowed to join the grid to make 11 teams or they'll take over Williams potentially
I don't think so, Alpha Tauri provides Red Bull an advantage a lot of people don't realise. It allows Red Bull to get around the cost cap. They can harbour a nurture engineers and designers. That other teams have to lay off and they can freely promote people to Redbull without having to worry about gardening leave. and that's just doing things above board. If they are being underhanded they can use Alpha Tauri as an experiment.
Alpha Tauri/ Toro Rosso is a second/junior team. But now Red Bull has a driver secured for a few years, and last year grabbed perez. A guy that didnt have any links with them.
I've been thinking exactly about this since the Porche deal hit the bin.. look at those entities that would appreciate being able to buy a team in the middle of the grid.. RB makes bank..
I think you should have digged more in the finances of current f1 era, as the sport is already somewhat profitable for teams, thus value of teams have actually sky rocketed. Also team being for sale for long time, only reinforces that the price is huge.
The constructors championship is how the team makes money though, so while the fans don't seem to care, I believe the teams really do care about it more. It's the reason McLaren is dumping Daniel as a driver. His under performance has cost the team millions in dollars because he single handedly cost the team one position in the standings in the last two years. If just finished behind Lando Norris on a regular basis, they would be a place higher in the standings.
I see them rebranding as Ford Torro Rosso. Those classic TR colors or royal blue and red match and they can keep the youth product the same. Not to mention adding an American brand into F1
i really hope they do, just for the sake of innovation. its frustrating for there to be a team on the already limited grid that basically has no hope of being competitive beyond the midfield.
I don't think a manufacturer/Porsche will buy them for the Powertrain purpose. They will probably have a clause in the deal that the buyer would have to use RB Powertrains.
From left field maybe we get a Lamborghini return. Vw group is already jumping in full force with Audi. If it’s essentially and Audi under the skin it can be a situation like Alfa Romeo.
Main problem is that they have energy drinks and basically everything redbull does, if they were to sell they are also creating a rival with everything it needs setup to compete.
The biggest thing with Max is that heb and the team also said that Max could retire earlier than expected is a possibility.. I think the moment Max has his own kid he will quit that season or the season after, suddenly Red Bull won’t have a star driver anymore.. I would hate for Alpha Tauri to go, I love them s ton and especially last year when Pierre could also peform quite nicely as well
Called it.
When do you think the sale will happen? Or will you touch on this on your next livestream?
wow, would this be on the last lap ? if it is, i called it
LOL 🤣
@@cpb1998did they?
I think it would be nice to have another team pushing to be a top team, instead of just a “sister” or “junior” team
They'll always have an artificial performance ceiling in place, as long as Red Bull own them. Facts.
@@TommoMcCluskey Well, Toro Rosso did outperform Red Bull in 2008 sooo :P
@@TommoMcCluskey yes but isnt it also in a way good the place isnt captured by a backmarker nor a front row runner i tink it depends on Who takes the place if it is andretti yes sell it immediatly but if it is a dat of a driver like dimitri mazepin no dont sell it
@@isabellthreesixty only because Toro Rosso had Ferrari engine and Red Bull had Renault already. Franz Tost mentions it on Beyond the Grid when he was talking about Sebastian's victory in Monza
@@krystianlato8919 Yipp I'm aware but something similar could maybe happen in the future as well, who knows :)
Is this the start of Tommo's grand plan to tell us that he's just bought Alpha Tauri from Red Bull, rebranding it to Tommo Racing and slapping Minton's face on the sidepod?
🤔 perhaps?
👀👀👀
@@TommoMcCluskey you didn't deny it 👀👀👀
And title sponsor being Squarespace
Man that Squarespace money going a long way these days.
I'd also add I think RedBull no longer sees the need for a junior team. Seeing how Mercedes was able to put Russell in a Williams and test him out. I think they are banking on being able to use other teams to run junior drivers when needed. Instead of bring up a bunch of talent that than leaves for other teams. Think about how many of their drivers have gone to other teams.
But how many have gone elsewhere due to the Red Bull hierarchy and the way they push out second drivers who want to be the lead
Developing engines aligns with that as they can have thier customer teams using thier engines on a discounted prices
I think this makes a lot of sense, I think it works for merc because of their consistent winning record or at least at the sharp end of the grid and now that redbull is cementing that for themselves more and more, the need for a junior "sister" team is less important
Smart thinking, they have some spare cash because of the budget cap... They can spend that on getting their driver a seat in a smaller team instead of a full junior team.
They don't use the drivers anyways
The perfect outcome:
• Porsche purchase Alpha Tauri F1 Team
• Red Bull create Toro Rosso F2/F3 Team
• F1 bans the concept of junior or "sister" teams
Andretti could purchase it, either too
Alpha Tauri can be a RedBull Sponsor
I could see Porsche buying the team if the deal with Red Bull didn't go too sour. Them or Andretti.
@@HandsUpforThePanther I think F1 would much rather have Audi [via Sauber] & Porsche on the grid than Andretti.
@@glenrobinson10 F1 still want to attract more US viewers, so its no brainer for FIA to choose Andretti than another german auto manufacturer.
I love AlphaTauri and I have no idea why. I've always loved the colors and liveries. It would definitely make sense for them to sell to Andretti but I selfishly want them to stay. I'll probably feel different once Pierre heads out 🤷
Small down to earth team energy.
The logo looks like something out of Wipeout. It's also hard not to like the Gas man and big Yuki.
Always gets us with the ad
It is my favorite logo, kind of hope more teams can get some wipeout/futuristic racing logo. Though probably not since most are current day car company
Here here - but still would be a big fan of De Vyres joins
It’s impressive that Yuki Gate is one of the first times the tinfoil hats have come out with Red Bull owning 2 full teams for 15 years
yukigate? you are weird as fuck🤣
Good point tbf, can't off the top of my head think of any other occasions.
Earlier controversy was mainly about Toro Rosso using old Red Bull designs, which made teams like Williams accuse them of not being a proper constructor. That hasn't been an issue for years now though.
tbf i think it was only psychos and salty Lewis fans who thought it was a real conspiracy. Everyone else thought it was just a weird and unfortunate run of events
@@dylansmit3883 ...they literally used to have the year old chassis from RB haha. The baby Ferrari, some called it, because of the Ferrari PU and excellent inherited chassis.
Fun fact, if you assume Tsunoda is a Honda Junior, They haven't promoted one of their own Juniors since Gasly in 2017
What about albon
@@joeldean2485 he wasn't a Red Bull Junior between 2012-2018
@@mrp8008 left the programme long before that.
The biggest clue for me is that Helmut said Red Bull Power Trains will be able to provide engines for 4 teams. This could solve the issue with placing junior drivers in a F1 seat.
It's a good point
Until now I always thought of it as a fair balance to the power of the engine manufacture teams, now it should be used to open up the ownership. I think Andretti and Honda go WAY back and would be good hands for the team.
Both coming together to take it over? I could get behind that.
I also think that branding them as a "sister", instead of a "junior" team, makes it more of an appealing team to buy.
Mystery F1 TH-camr link:
th-cam.com/video/u-5V6cNrguI/w-d-xo.html
If its true the we r gonna miss the two alpha (alphatauri,alfa romeo) from f1
slightly better than 2 lotus teams 10 years ago
why cant RB just not have 2 of the same cars? imagine the scurry to get one of those seats, and the advertising potential of running 2 mechanical similar teams and the increased podium potential
Honda isn’t actually all in on EV. They’ve always been more invested in Hydrogen fuel cells, same as Toyota. Why would RBR build a state of the art power plant factory/facility just to revert back to Honda, who definitely won’t move their engineering out of Japan?
As long as Checo wins in Mexico, I'm happy.
I’ve always been more of a fan of Toro Rosso/Alphatauri than the main team. I’ve loved the white and navy as it stood out more and the toro Rosso colors at Singapore were gorgeous. Sucks to see it get sold but if it means more resources that are more dedicated towards winning than it’s good
No reason why that team can't do more. But they'll always have a ceiling under the Red Bull brand.
It has been rumoured for some time that RB will sell Alphatauri to either Andretti/Honda or Porsche
The andretti Honda thing kinda makes sense since andretti wants to be in F1 and Honda wants to be back in F1 supplying engines to teams and the FIA isn't keen on making andretti enter as a new 11th team so buying alphatauri is a good idea
But on the other hand there's Porsche who needs to find a team to buy and alphatauri is the perfect opportunity for them to enter
when did honda say they want to be back again? didn't they only decided to leave like a couple years ago? if that's true these people can't make up their mind 😂
It's only a matter of time ⏲️
@@Enra000 it's been going on for a long time since the end of last season they want to be back in F1 Even RB cancelled the deal with Porsche to be with Honda so yeah they can't make up their minds
make it a super andretti-porsche-honda fusion lol
@@Enra000 Red Bull actually said it, it's been talked about for a couple months already, Marko is actually meeting with Honda in October to go over their plans for 2026. Honda is still committed to building the Red Bull & Alpha Tauri PUs until the end of 2025, but I suspect they're going to commit to 2026 as well.
It’d be nice if RB kept strongish ties with whatever team they sold AT to if it were to happen, maybe on an engine supplier deal if they’re sticking with RBPT. Similar to what Ferrari has with Haas and Sauber, they’d still have a pathway for their junior drivers but in a team with its own identity and ceiling
Would be the best of both worlds. Good thought.
I actually hate that midfield teams have to look up to the top 3 to be able to compete
I think the fact that red bull is starting to run out of candidates to push through Alpha Tauri would definitely help push them to actively search for a buyer. Also like you said with Max being the main teams present and future even if they had a promising young driver its disadvantageous for them to provide a stepping stone team just for them to be shipped off somewhere besides Red Bull.
I think in terms of branding the team being called "Torro Rosso" was better for marketing than "Alpha Tauri" which feels like a test/pilot project to see which shit sticks to the wall. Now they will sell it since for the first time in a while good buyrs are out there - even 4 of them)
For me the change from junior team to sister team was driven by the cost cap. Since red bull was spending half as much on the red bull f1 team that money could now go to alpha tauri and they could be competitive. So after the cost cap their total expenditure has gone down between the two teams and there's a reasonable chance they'll have two more competitive teams. So in order to attract better talent (driver and engineer) they needed to change the language.
When and how each team joined the grid might be a cool concept for a video!
For me it'll be a shame if AT gets sold as chances are that'll bring the shutters down to the old Faenza base. Saying that, for that old Minardi HQ to have kept going almost 40 years is Very impressive, nothing last forever in F1, especially not history. But considering how exorbitant it would cost to set up a completely new team, taking over a team like that or Sauber is pretty much the only way to get new teams into the sport now so I guess it is kind of inevitable
i hope porsche will seriously consider this, and the other potential buyers sound really good too
Andretti-Honda sounds pretty darn appealing, especially to this US F1/Indycar superfan. :-) Andretti was my first team, and you never forget your first love.
They'd also have a US driver with F1 experience ready to go, in Alexander Rossi.
I agree having Andretti on the F1 grid would be great, but Alexander Rossi isn't part of the Andrertti team anymore. He'd going to be running a third car for Arrow McLaren SP next year.
@@BiggieTrismegistus ah, rats. I missed that news. Thanks for the info!
Great think-piece vid mate. No regurgitation of current media topics. We love it.
2:34 gosh the 2019 STR was beautiful
I bet a Scuderia Square Space would be smooth on track as Tommo’s segues
The problem with Alpha Tauri for any potential buyer is that it's based in Italy. That's requires a buyer to adapt themselves to the infrastructure of the Faenza team or fork out relocating the whole operation and I doubt a lot of Italy-based team members would move away from their home country. Same goes for getting say a Brit to move to Italy to work for the team, especially ones with families. James Allison leaving Ferrari in 2016 was in part to being away from his kids and family.
This is my main roadblock with them selling up. Could Honda/Andretti take AT over? Sure, but having an American or a Japanese team being based in Italy would surely create some problems, they'd want to relocate which would cost a bomb.
Hey Tommo, this was GREAT content. For someone who doesn't have time to research the details or nuances of F1, but is curious to hear, I thought you did a great job summarizing your ideas and why they make sense in reality. Thanks!
I think it's realistic, and would definitely add a layer of spice to the grid. I'm all for more teams (yes, this isn't truly more, but essentially it is)!
I was expecting a rebranding to Lamborghini after the Porsche deal. But that deal fell apart i guess.
Lambo would be quality
I like the idea of Andretti taking it over, would be handy for them to try and get US talent in too and possibly getting Honda in as Engine Suppliers. Although, it'd be cool to see one of the F2 teams come up like Prema, ART, Carlin or what have you into F1. I reckon Prema could take a good punt at it so m a y b e they could buy AT? I know they've got pretty big operation going as it is at the moment with Junior teams and WEC. Talked myself into another option init there geezah?
Prema an Italian team too init
Prema would be so cool. But, I'd imagine they'd run under a different name. Like we have with Sauber atm.
7:27 I've never thought to make the Ferrari/Red Bull comparison before...
Very fast and promising European driver, shaking off a bad reputation on track? Check
Maverick British technical director/designer? Check
Latin American driver in a clear no. 2 role? Checo
Tommo please be the buyer good sir. Tommo Minton Grand Prix has a nice ring to it.
The title sponsor of course is Squarespace. 😁
You made concise, salient points regarding the potential sale of Alpha Tauri, which I agree with. I think since the proposed deal between Porsche and Red Bull fell through, the outright purchase of Alpha Tauri becomes a realistic possibility. The new cost cap and ratified 2026 engine regulations are in place, this is the most attractive time to enter F1, with the only caveat being increasing interest rates by central banks to combat inflation. I still find the possible dual entry into F1 by Audi and Porsche to be economically perplexing, as they are part of the Volkswagen Automotive Group ownership. The last time a similar situation occurred in top flight motorsport was in WRC with Citroën and Peugeot in the early 2000s. The dual entry did not continue much beyond the early 2000s, since it was not financially sustainable. The Red Bull Alpha Tauri dual entry in F1 only works, as Alpha Tauri is not a direct competitor to Red Bull.
You know what could work is Alfa Romeo buying alpha tauri from Red Bull, and Audi buying in to sauber as the new title sponsor
i love seeing the colour scheme of AT on the cars as well as drivers and team personell. i really like AT in general. i would be sad to see it leave f1 but you make good points.
Didn't RB ask Pierre to move out of Max's way last year? So yes there should only be 1 team per ownership
The question of does alpha tauri help redbull is so clear cut to me. Look at every time last year lewis came up on yuki or pierre. It didn't matter how much they compromised their own race they held up lewis at all costs. There were elements of williams doing something similar to max on occasion but it was much less often (partially because the williams was so rarely in front of a red bull). I think this grey area is so difficult to police that it should be illegal for one entity to own two teams. There were even times when lapping the ATs last year that lewis got a bit held up, even if it was only marginal since they only have 3 corners before a penalty. You can still kill the momentum of the car trying to lap you and make it look somewhat legitimate and get away with it. And of course every time max came up they jumped out of the way at all costs
Name a more iconic duo than Tommo and Squarespace I’ll wait
Quite ridiculous. Alpha Tauri is a clothing brand (created by Red Bull) who is Scuderia main sponsor. So no, it won't be sold - could get a different engine supplier perhaps (in order to separate the teams - still doubtful) but it definitely won't be sold.
I think they will sell it. Probably not this year, but eventually they will sell it, and honestly Honda hasn't been in the sport as a team itself since 2008 I believe, and they might give it another shot, after winning (presumably) two WDC and one WCC with RedBull as their engine manufacturer. And let's be honest, It would be cool to have another new team, instead of 9 teams and 1 'Junior' or 'sister' team.
Teams shouldn't be able to have "junior" teams at the highest level of the sport
I think you're wrong about them selling the team, but rather with how strong the team has been in the recent years, aside from this one, they might act more as an independent team, but still be owned by Rebull Technologies. Like how you said, AT whole fashion line is about minimalism, being a tiny sticker on a car covered in ads isn't very minimalist, their whole brand promotion works exceptionally well when they have their own team.
Ever since the budget cap it makes perfect sense to have a sister team developing aero and comparing engine data.
This "Why? Here's Why!" lacked Simon Miller's normal arm movements, but did feature a lot of neck!
My genius idea of bringing the Williams name back on top:
Step 1: Dorilton sells off the current Williams team but keep the name
Step 2: They buy Alpha Tauri
Step 3: Rename Alpha Tauri back to Williams (since they still own the name)
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Williams back on top (of the midfield)
Step 6: Re hire goatifi to win Williams' first modern WDC in 2026
I think whoever buys AlphaTauri will stick with the Red Bull PowerTrains, which might be what RB wants anyway, like Marko said them being able to supply to more teams.
Also wonder if any current teams are looking to switch to RBPT's anyway. I think if any current team will do it, it might be Haas or Aston Martin
At 14 seconds, the way you say "why" is hilarious! Sounds like a Valley Girl... Whooowahhheh.
00:14 “WAAH?”
love the video man, keep it up
WAAAH
I really hope they do. It kind of puts an asterisk to all the Red Bull wins when an AT car does something on track that benefits a RB driver.
I also think there's enough room on the grid (pun intended) for 12 teams.
24 pilots, 24 races each year, let's gooooooooooooooooo!
Yes! Thats what I want. 12 teams, 24 cars. Let Andretti and Porsche in.
I had this video playing in the background and that oi you subscribe 6 minutes in terrified me 🤣
In case they will finally decide to sell it, it will be great to see Porsche buying it, that would make F1 more and more exciting 😁
I'm not gonna lie as someone who has just been a fan of Formula 1 since 2020, it feels weird seeing AlphaTauri as a clothing brand when you've only seen them as a racing team.
I've been an F1 since 2013 and it feels weird to me to see AlphaTauri as a clothing brand too. That Red Bull even sells clothes at all is just weird.
@9:15 nice story... however red bull is atm 104 points ahead in the constructors as well
Tag Heuer branded the Porsche engines in the mid 80s Mclarens if I remember correctly. Funny how that's changed and now Porsche doesn't want to build an engine just brand one lol
That sponsor transition and the chef kiss 🤣this guy
I agree with all the points you have made I think its all valid.
For me I don't see AT as a "Junior team/B team/boot camp team" This is F1 you're not learning here you're doing the real thing. If you're not trying to make strides to the podium as a team and driver (at least having a track record in top 10 consistently) you need to go back to F2.
Personally I think RB's academy is over saturated with too many drivers and no one truly has sunk their teeth into AT/TR and "earned" their way onto RB with the exception of Seb (even then you can call his BMW past more of an academy than TR) Max was a one run wonder. They rest all saw the writing on the wall and bounced to save their career RIC, SAI. Don't get me wrong its a lot of politics, liking, drama etc but still what does that leave AT to be?
Not badgering Yuki But if this academy was truly proven 2023 he would be signing with RB if not at the very heels of Checo (Which they had to outsource to make up for their lack in proven academy drivers) In the meantime Yuki should be one with AT developing and working major overtime with the engineers Schumacher 1998 style to bring the best of the team. Which I highly doubt instead probably playing COD etc.
This doesn't go directly to RB/At I think its a major flaw across the board in F1, they should roll out a whole lot more training and academy programs in 2 year back non development cars to get F2 drivers up to speed, it should be on a separate budget. Look at half of the drivers when rain hits..... all the old souls ALO, HAM, PER, VET immediate advance their position from the youngins.
-coming from a Lando/200-2008 fan
Me during SquareSpace transition:
Oh… no no… is he… yup, he’s about to do it… 😂
I think Red Bull would have sold a few years ago but now with the budget cap and all teams being profitable, I don't think they'll sell
It's not ideal a team being owned by the same company but it's no big deal. At least with Red Bull they have done a lot for F1, they've poured millions into the sport and stayed when most teams was losing money. They've backed hundreds of young drivers, giving them a chance I'm junior categories and then in F1. Any new team you aren't guaranteed how much commitment they'll have
I’d love to see Andretti purchase Alpha Tauri and partner with Porche, going in as Andretti Porche F1 or Porche Andretti F1
With now teams having "technical partnership" with each other, the strongest reason for red bull not to sell alfa tauri is so they can easily provide a seat for prodigious talent like max, george, and charles. In short, piastri will race this year if he's under red bull junior program coz they can easily cancel or not renew yuki's contract
Would also make way more sense if the super license points situation is reviewed.
Otherwise having junior programs will still be needed.
That may be the Porsche partnership that Red Bull would be comfortable with, and they could (barring a re-entry by Honda) conceivably still pair up in RB Powertrains. Porsche gets into F1 and RB doesn't cede control of their team to anyone. Sounds like a potential win-win.
Andretti Autosport would be a nice addition to the grid, and this could be their way in, since they don't seem to be able to convince the FIA and the existing teams that they would be good for the sport. Taking over an existing team that is already not a constructor, like Sauber, which fell through, would be a good way for them to enter. There is no issue with splitting the prize money with another team, and it brings an American team on to the grid, and would bring an American driver at a time when F1 popularity is surging in the U.S.
Mate there is budget cup. Now is the trend to have sister teams or "b" teams. Just like Haas to Ferrari, Aston Martin and Williams to Mercedes. Red Bull has one of the calmest situations. They can easily split the work on the car to alpha tauri and get the parts to RB to save budget. Alpin is in a tight spot right now.
Honestly, i don't think this will happen unless the right circumstances took place
I think they will hold on to them well in to the next generation of cars. They will be able to try out more setups and remain competitive. The cost cap is restricting teams on how much they can do to the car. it’s not like they don’t have the extra cash seeing as how they are breaking the cost cap now.
Given that alpha tauri is Italian it would be cool if a historical Italian marque bought them , like Alfa Romeo, Maserati etc. f1 needs more teams not based in Britain
Audio 'professional' here. There is a significant drop in bass when you speak that far with your current microphone, though interestingly the rest of the frequency range are preserved, which makes the audio sound tinny. Noticed this during your livestream.
just letting you know that the 'oi you subscribe' in the middle of the video worked, i subbed
it will make sense, after all no junior driver have been able to perform to the level of the main team, hence why they looked to the free market for second drivers
Don't forget about Red Bull Powertrains. Beginning in 2026 they can push their Junior program by supplying other teamss with their engine + their drivers.....They have leverage, they did not have before. So Alpha Tauri will make even less sense
Tommo can you do a video where you go back and see what your best and worst predictions were? Like I’m terms of which ones came to be and which ones were just so far off. Would be interesting 😄
NO MOAR VIRGENS!
I wasn't actually familiar with the change of language from Junior to Sister team - that is VERY interesting.
Who reckons Flavio Briatore will buy the team?
Also - I think that the Power Unit suppliers have more influence over their customers. Not Merc putting de Vries in ALL of their customer teams!
For 15 years toro rosso and alpha tauri have been one team we knew would never fight at the front due to their red bull connection and status-with new owners the team could have at least some potential
Although i don't agree with your opinion, i find the video really well done and logical. Good job Tommo!
To answer your question Tommo why the WDC carries more weight than WCC is because of the lineage in the sport. The WDC is the original championship that you can trace all the way to the beginning whereas the WCC came in later
Very good video. RB powertrains can be used as a bargaining chip to place kids in other teams. AlphaTauri is just a huge money drain at this point.
Alpine should look into it as a potential customer team / sister team. Then they might also be able to give some of their academy drivers a run instead of what we're seeing this season. They don't have enough seats to bring their talent through.
You’ve just given the heads up to Andretti. They already use honda engines in Indy car I mean they’re Redbull badges now but seems like an easy fit
At the end of the day in a competitive market like f1, talent will always move around because there are deals to be done
Just on the constructor’s thing and no one caring about it; sure WE don’t care about it, but the teams get their money from where they finish in the constructors. That’s why you’ll even see teams fight for like seventh in the standings cause it means more to them
I think Alfa Romeo could be an interesting buyer aswell. They will leave Sauber and said their future in F1 is still open. Buying Alpha Tauri would be a good fit because of it's Faenza base since Alfa Romeo is italian aswell.
Finally someone said it!
Not like something is broken and it needs to be fixed, but after watching this I think it would be great if RB sold AT to Andretti. Italians, Honda engines in Indy already, and they want Herta in F1 too. Maybe that's why Marko wanted him at AT
Have AlphaTauri (as a clothing brand now) sponsor either RB or Andretti, or both if it's possible, and as someone in the comments said, RB create actual junior teams in F2/F3
I think the future of f1 is bright, can see Porsche buying Alpha Tauri and launching in 2026 alongside Audi who have took Sauber/Alpha Romeo when the new engine regs come in. I reckon Andretti will be allowed to join the grid to make 11 teams or they'll take over Williams potentially
I don't think so, Alpha Tauri provides Red Bull an advantage a lot of people don't realise. It allows Red Bull to get around the cost cap.
They can harbour a nurture engineers and designers. That other teams have to lay off and they can freely promote people to Redbull without having to worry about gardening leave.
and that's just doing things above board. If they are being underhanded they can use Alpha Tauri as an experiment.
12 teams 24 drivers would be amazing, honestly more drivers deserve F1 race seats🔥
Toro Rosso allows Red Bull to outspend other teams 2:1. They should be forced to sell for that reason alone.
Alpha Tauri/ Toro Rosso is a second/junior team. But now Red Bull has a driver secured for a few years, and last year grabbed perez. A guy that didnt have any links with them.
I've been thinking exactly about this since the Porche deal hit the bin.. look at those entities that would appreciate being able to buy a team in the middle of the grid.. RB makes bank..
I think you should have digged more in the finances of current f1 era, as the sport is already somewhat profitable for teams, thus value of teams have actually sky rocketed. Also team being for sale for long time, only reinforces that the price is huge.
The constructors championship is how the team makes money though, so while the fans don't seem to care, I believe the teams really do care about it more. It's the reason McLaren is dumping Daniel as a driver. His under performance has cost the team millions in dollars because he single handedly cost the team one position in the standings in the last two years. If just finished behind Lando Norris on a regular basis, they would be a place higher in the standings.
I see them rebranding as Ford Torro Rosso. Those classic TR colors or royal blue and red match and they can keep the youth product the same. Not to mention adding an American brand into F1
i really hope they do, just for the sake of innovation. its frustrating for there to be a team on the already limited grid that basically has no hope of being competitive beyond the midfield.
I don't think a manufacturer/Porsche will buy them for the Powertrain purpose. They will probably have a clause in the deal that the buyer would have to use RB Powertrains.
From left field maybe we get a Lamborghini return. Vw group is already jumping in full force with Audi. If it’s essentially and Audi under the skin it can be a situation like Alfa Romeo.
[vinyl scratch] Whatchoo mean it's always up for sale? [Mario Andretti has entered the chat]
Main problem is that they have energy drinks and basically everything redbull does, if they were to sell they are also creating a rival with everything it needs setup to compete.
The biggest thing with Max is that heb and the team also said that Max could retire earlier than expected is a possibility.. I think the moment Max has his own kid he will quit that season or the season after, suddenly Red Bull won’t have a star driver anymore..
I would hate for Alpha Tauri to go, I love them s ton and especially last year when Pierre could also peform quite nicely as well
Good thing, I hate the very concept of stepping stone team. Like, theres just a team what you know for sure will not compete to win
On a side note let’s appreciate the 2019 torro rosso livery such a beautiful car.
what you forgot to think about: Teams started to make money - not cost money! (Cost Cap and more turned the Finances around)