I’m working on a 1/350 scale USS New Jersey as she is today. One surprising feature of this Revell model is you can make it R/C with four electric motors in a kit that comes from Hong Kong. Anyone know what kind of a control module I would need for the motors and the two rudders?
@@craigbathurst1185 I do not but you might want to check if you have hobby shop in your community. They usually have RC kits in addition to plastic models or at least may be able to put you in touch with RC people. I have two hobby shops near me. One has games and plastic models, the other is plastic models and RC planes & cars but no games. So don't be discouraged if the first one you go to doesn't do radio control.
As a welder I would call them doubler, or lap plates. A gusset is perpendicular not parallel to the plate you are reinforcing. The curve prevents a hard corner, hard corners are prone to propagating cracks.
Agree that would be called a doubler or lap reinforcement in the yards I have been in. Gussets were always perpendicular to the pieces joined, and typically died into one or more corners. If used to stiffen a flat plate, it would be a special gusset called a strong back. But regional differences are a thing. Curious if there is a nomenclature reference around that would offer anything definitive.
As a steelworker, I love watching your videos just to look at the construction of all of the settings you shoot your videos in. In regards to the scalloped gusset plates- these could be oxyfuel cut quite rapidly if they weren't just stamped as a stock engineering part (stuff of that size is a license plate compared to the mills shipwrights use). Given a template and a torch I could scallop both sides of the plate in maybe ten minutes. The rivet holes could also be similarly flame cut rather than mechanically bored. I think that in addition to the (minor) weight savings is that the scalloping prevents stress risers between the rivet holes/rivets and the edge of the plate. By keeping the edge a consistent distance from the radii of the rivet holes any flex stresses are spread out along the entire length of the plate rather than concentrating and forming cracks at the points of minimum distance between the gusset plate edge and rivet hole. This makes the plate much less prone to failure when you take into account the forces that will always be acting on it. Given that the New Jersey was designed to fight the most unrelenting and undefeatable adversary possible on Earth (the ocean), this was a good idea.
I have noticed in my visits to three of the four Iowa's that the Teakwood decks go above the main deck at least three or four more levels in the superstructure. On the South Dakota class Massachusetts they are only on the main deck. The Iowa's are truly the best of the best in terms of the quality of materials used and attention to detail in their construction. In regards to the time spent to build them, their complexity and multiplicity of systems are certainly a reason you could not reproduce them on an assembly line basis. Look how long it takes us to build an Aircraft Carrier ( some nine years). As many have said they do not build ships like these anymore .
Answers to the Gold plating question: (1) the use of riveting; (2) the trimming of seamstraps; (3) the use of scalloped seamstrap welds; (4) the machining of lap and scarf joins into the hull plating; (5) Tapered T-joints in the shell; (6) shaping the hull from the shell and having to template the frames off of the rivets; (7) having shell strakes that reverse their overlaps; (8) the riveting on top of welding on the keel; (9) the use of face hardened armor even after everyone was using capped projectiles; (10) the machining of the lower belt armor taper. (11) The machining of overly complicated joints into armor plates.---The US could never have completed 17 Essex-class during the war if they had been constructed like this. The US could have completed USS Kentucky and USS Illinois during the war had the resources been devoted to them but it would have been impossible to have built additional Iowa-class during the war due to the amount of resources they consumed to construct.
carriers are not battleships, (except the few that were) they don't have to be as armored or have as much redundancy, plus welding was problematic on early liberty ships
Gussets are used in all sorts of engineering. A failure of gusset plates has led to several bridge collapses over the years. Also, they're used in clothes.
I read docs on the initial construction of the Iowa's and it said that all the rivets were bored individually with special air-impact drills one at a time and that none of the holes where punched out on any framing or any class A or class B armor, Now what they did during the 1980's may be a different story. Also, the scalloping was done on some sort of jig on a huge milling machine. I also read that some Class A lap joints where milled before joining with the plates and rivets. Additionally, there was a huge keyway cut into the edge of the main class A armor deck and the angled class B belt, and had big keys driven down the length of the keyway to add strength in addition to the class B belt being riveted to frames. No Oxy torches were ever used after the armor was face hardened, at least until the 80's.
@@davidb6576 Sadly it was years ago, but what I did came from expanded links that started at Wiki search for Battleship History, construction, armor, and on, and on.
The scalloping on those plates is not a weight saving measure in this application it is for preventing stress cracking along the plate edge as it flexes. If the edges of the plate were flat every time the deck flexes it would try to curl up the steel spanning between the rivets along the outer edge of the plate causing work hardening over time leading to cracks. Essentially this plate is built this way for the same reason you dont build an airplane with square windows. If they were really concerned about weight to that extreme level there would be far more concessions to weight savings in other parts of the ship. They could have saved as much weight by getting rid of one of the ice cream machines or any number of other things. You are correct that it is an example of "gold plating" but for longevity not weight savings.
Ice creme machines stay! The CO wants his ice cream from the machines, not frozen stores! The XO, Supply Officer, and CHENG have made that clear. A Gang will focus on the ice cream machines !
@@SSN515 That was on the priority repair list radioed by the USS Yorktown to Pearl Harbor when it was steaming back from the Coral Sea - ice cream machines are good for morale... ...US Navy repair and damage control crews working on the Yorktown were bad for IJN morale: "We sank the Yorktown at Coral Sea..." "Wait a second, that's the Yorktown, die, ganji, dieee!" "We spotted a US carrier, this one wasn't the one we hit earlier..." "...what the *****! That was Yorktown?!?! Surely we sank that ganji concubine now!" "...um, this is Yamamoto...Tojo's laundry got wrecked, and the Yorktown's still afloat..." "...the Silent Service has to do ALL the work!!! At least we don't have the Mark XIV's!" "IJN, this is Admiral Nimitz...Admiral King is mad, surrender now, we got the Mark XIV's fixed!" "Nimitz, this is Yamamoto, **** you...oh, shit, you shoots me down aieeeeeeeeee!!!"
4:48 C'mon Ryan, give those measurements in terms we understand. "There's a gusset plate roughly every 3.5 curators, and the ship is about 18 curators wide". :)
I had a client in Cambridge, MA, for whom I was writing a report that used a few physical distances. For each one, I included the distances in feet in the main text, and in parentheses I included the equivalent in meters and in smoots. The client appreciated the humor and accepted the report as it was.
Probably the most "gold plated" aspect of the Iowa's is the extensive use of STS... for its time, having an armor steel with enough ductile strength to be used for structures was very expensive. To my knowledge, no other nation used an armor steel that way. The US was using it for everything in the armored citadel and the weather deck, outer hull plating, etc.
In aviation, those "gusset" plates would be a "splice plate" and that curved edge (2:24) is referred to as scalloping, which is also as a weight reduction measure. The Society of Allied Weights Engineers has 3 specialties - land vehicles, aircraft and.....marine vehicles. So, yeah, weight reduction and weight management, is important in all vehicles. In aircraft, those scalloped edged are 2 times the diameter of the fastener, plus 0.050" away from the center of the fastener. 2D is the key....the 050 is margin for a slightly misplaced, or if needed, oversize, fastener. If you measure, I'm sure you'll figure out the criteria that the Navy used to scallop the edges of those gusset, er, splice plates.
A few quick comments from someone who thinks about stuff. If you are bringing two pieces together, the hole patterns on both sides are a known item. You just don't randomly drill holes. So the hard part is to make sure the gusset is manufactured / milled so that the two sets of known patterns match each other. Besides, you would want some play in terms of tolerances so it can flex and move. Second in terms of cutting away material to save on weight. This does not pass the smell test. If they are trying to save weight, they would be implementing this savings everywhere. Piping, racks, furniture, etc. My gut tells me that the out edge would experience some sort of fatigue in the metal due to the holes and stress lines radiating out if each one. To compensate, either you make the edge wider, i.e. more materteral to do the job or cutting it down to eliminate the stresses. There has to be an engineering reason.
There is. Stress cracks begin at sharp corners, which is why airplane windows aren't square. Even in the cockpit where the windows look square you'll see that they are rounded at the corners.
@@ghost307 Exactly! I'm also reflecting on eyebars. It's a long piece of flat steel that has a rounded end that allows them to be mounted to a pin. They would cut the unnecessary material between eye holes to reduce weight, but why bother cutting around the hole? It has to do with stresses.
It's interesting that those cutouts were to save weight. When I saw those, I assumed it was to provide more length to a weld--similar to another video you did discussing... think joining the belt armor... Maybe it was hull armor. Either way, they did both riveting and welding because the navy didn't trust welding yet.
Ryan, did you ever explore using hard plastic in place of the marine grade plywood under the teak?? It doesn’t rot & you could just clean them up & use over & over again. Check out “Tips From a Shipwright” Lou uses them in boat construction & repair, great channel too.
I have seen these gusset plates that are welded as well along the scallops particularly on the 16" barbetts aboard USS Iowa. I think they are scalloped to increase the length of welded surface area (per foot).
Hey Ryan, How much does a panel of marine grade plywood cost? I would like to buy and donate a panel to help further the restoration process of the Battleship. Also what thickness and dimensions does the panel need to be?
Plywood is generally 4'x8', they're probably using 1" since that's what he said they'd need to notch so maybe $120 or more retail price or at least that's what I've seen for marine stuff from like home depot, I'd imagine and hope that they would be able to get it from a wholesale company for less than that and maybe even in larger sheets so they can do more with one sheet of plywood.
A bit less gold plated than it sounds, still extra work, but not all entirely hand cut in all cases. If you want to add the waver, drill your holes in a plate in a normal patter. Then drop that plate on a mount. Next to the mount is a table or a plank or such someone cut to have that given wave. Now turn on the torches, and just move it down the length against that log/master shape and your little rig can replicate that cutting pattern. It's a simple method that's been used for ages, even without a large special tool for it (and they should have those at a ship yard), most random people could fashion one themselves within a day, so I'd be highly doubtfull if every individual groove was truly cut by hand as it were. Perhaps hand powered to move it, but still guided so it could be faster with a simple setup to semi automate it.
Do the decks of large ships have a slight curve or drainage system like a roof for rain water? I figure at sea they move enough where it'd likely not get a chance to pool but they sit so steady in port and at that point the deck is also a roof. Thanks for all the great content! We're definitely going to come down one day for a tour.
Do you guys at the battleships know the last time New Jersey was next to her sister Iowa or Wisconsin and Missouri?, I know they haven't seen each other in long time but I can't remember find anything on the last time New Jersey was with iowa or the others.
Could it have been in January 1991. With the steam turbine engines from the USS Kentucky between the Wisconsin and Missouri (picture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SacUnrep.jpg). Speculative - SInce decom Wisconsin never left Norfolk Area.
After their final deactivation, _New Jersey_ and _Missouri_ were laid up at Bremerton, Washington. They were not berthed side by side as they had been before reactivation. _Missouri_ departed under tow in May, 1998…that would be the last time any US BB’s were together (unless you count _Arizona_ of course).
What would the tonnage be like on an Iowa but with an exterior belt armor to give same level of protection (heavier?)...and how much better could the torpedo defense be if you did that?
The weight of the steel. EVERY cubic inch of steel = .28 pounds. How thick is the deck plating? By saving a width of 1 inch, over a 12 inch length, you save about 4 pounds on 1 inch thick.
You alluded to a class of battleship that the Navy wanted to build but they settled for the Iowa class. Can you tell us more about the class that was never built?
I can't help but think that the standing pool of water is an issue to contend with. Even if it has a lot of metal beneath to eat away before any actual damage will happen.
In several videos Ryan mentioned "because of" in compliance with" or "trying to adhere to", as pertains to the Washington Naval Treaty of the 1920's. At the time of the Iowa's construction wasn't the Washington Treaty no longer being followed? Didn't the USA stop following the treaty prior to 1941 because Japan was no longer following it?
The planning phase of the ship building was within the time of the washington naval treaty, so generally the ship follows those rules. Mostly because once yo decide how big your ship will be, weight limits are no longer a matter of policy but of buoyancy.
Agreed. Those plates are probably one of the few parts that are pre-fabbed, likely cut and punched in bulk as longer pieces, then cut to fit on site and used as guides to drill the deck plates.
@@NFSgadzooks Nope, they were individually bored, each and every one, thru the gusset and thru the plate, and sometimes thru the frame below--at least when she was built. I have not heard anything on her 1980's refit except that there was a lot more welding. also, the scalloping was done with some type of template on a huge milling machine--not cut with a torch.
Given the way Advantech and the other engineered building material companies throw their products at construction TH-cam influencers, and the fact that you are a non-profit, maybe they could help you out with the plywood costs🤣
Face hardening armor the size of New Jersey's plates has to be the definition of gold plating. Making armor of that thickness and quality seems like it would still be challenging even today!
It would likely be more difficult today, as we don't have the steel making infrastructure that we had in the 30's. Process control might be better now, due to much better sensors and computer monitoring, but bulk manufacture? No...
I'd say the conning tower. The KGV's never had one and the QE's that were retrofitted had them taken out. British command staff never used them, so why waste several hundred tons on tower armor?
I'm adding gussets to these two snowblowers I'm fixing to donate because the handle bars flex which jams up the controls. Project Binky built a car out of gusseted brackets so why not a battleship.
"Gold Plated" ...look at all those railings! You would never see such a waste of money and weight in a star wars battle space ship. Here is a question for you Ryan, where was the deepest crew stationed during battle stations and how long would it take them to get out if things went south?
GQ Thrust block was deepest in the ship. Doubt you could get out with Zebra set. Not in any hurry, anyway. The main engineering spaces had escape trunks put in as required updates in the 80's, so you can get out of there in a hurry.If you survived the steam leaks, that is.
The irony of setting treaty limits to try to save money on capital ship construction, only to use some extra expensive construction methods to keep inside those "cost-saving" limits.
Rivit holes were pre punched in the ship yard workshops not drilled on site and this isn't a gusset plate in British ship building terminology its a joining plate , cover plate or fish plate, gussets are usually at intersections of structural beams or corners of bulkheads, its possible US terminology is different though.
I'd call it a joiner or a doubler, personally. When you say "gusset" I envision a plate welded between 2 plates which meet at an angle to one another, such as a horizontal triangular piece welded into a vertical corner.
Yes, almost everything that is not polished brass or wood is STS on an IOWA, including the rivets. It is a very bad thing to have dissimilar metals attached together near the ocean.
You just made that weight savings theory up off the top of your head. Weight saving? Totally wrong reason. Where are all the visitors? I don't see any sign of life on shore either. Great location you're in.
I need quite a few millionaires or a billionaire or two si I can build a slightly scaled up replica of HMS warspite and use her as a spartanly Furnished cruise ship with better accomodations than she ever came with but not so nice as to take away the feel of the ship, I.e. separate closable cabins for two beds , two footlockers and a very small personal head per room, and wash basin. Of course, we would take cruises to ports of call that are remote. To include live. 15” gunfire having the more wealthy passengers to really who can afford it a chance to shoot them at the equivalent price per shell. We will be shooting at a vessel that was planned to be sung as a reef to add to the ecosystem as well. All the guns Would have the opportunity to be fired as long as the ammo is paid for. Could you imagine all the class three tax stamps you would need? LMAO
While most of us collects 1/700 and 1/350 scale model battleships, Ryan gets to admire his 1/1 scale real original battleship. I'm quite jealous.
If it's any consolation he still can't use the 16" guns nor can he use the steam powered stuff.
I’m working on a 1/350 scale USS New Jersey as she is today. One surprising feature of this Revell model is you can make it R/C with four electric motors in a kit that comes from Hong Kong. Anyone know what kind of a control module I would need for the motors and the two rudders?
@@craigbathurst1185 I do not but you might want to check if you have hobby shop in your community. They usually have RC kits in addition to plastic models or at least may be able to put you in touch with RC people.
I have two hobby shops near me. One has games and plastic models, the other is plastic models and RC planes & cars but no games. So don't be discouraged if the first one you go to doesn't do radio control.
@@craigbathurst1185 If only there was a way to search the internet for information like that.
@@haywoodyoudome it depends on the key words you use and search 10 pages in the search results
As a welder I would call them doubler, or lap plates. A gusset is perpendicular not parallel to the plate you are reinforcing. The curve prevents a hard corner, hard corners are prone to propagating cracks.
For us, doubler plates are reinforcing after the fact. So we put double plates over a hole that we can't crop out.
@@BattleshipNewJersey we would call that a patch plate
Agree that would be called a doubler or lap reinforcement in the yards I have been in. Gussets were always perpendicular to the pieces joined, and typically died into one or more corners. If used to stiffen a flat plate, it would be a special gusset called a strong back. But regional differences are a thing. Curious if there is a nomenclature reference around that would offer anything definitive.
if you ever look at impact sockets vs regular hand tool sockets the "points" of the hex are rounded out for this same reason
@@burroaks7 Snap On, Flank Drive
As a steelworker, I love watching your videos just to look at the construction of all of the settings you shoot your videos in.
In regards to the scalloped gusset plates- these could be oxyfuel cut quite rapidly if they weren't just stamped as a stock engineering part (stuff of that size is a license plate compared to the mills shipwrights use). Given a template and a torch I could scallop both sides of the plate in maybe ten minutes. The rivet holes could also be similarly flame cut rather than mechanically bored.
I think that in addition to the (minor) weight savings is that the scalloping prevents stress risers between the rivet holes/rivets and the edge of the plate. By keeping the edge a consistent distance from the radii of the rivet holes any flex stresses are spread out along the entire length of the plate rather than concentrating and forming cracks at the points of minimum distance between the gusset plate edge and rivet hole. This makes the plate much less prone to failure when you take into account the forces that will always be acting on it.
Given that the New Jersey was designed to fight the most unrelenting and undefeatable adversary possible on Earth (the ocean), this was a good idea.
Ten minutes? I don’t think so, that plate goes the whole width of the ship.
@@johnnunn8688 no you can see its only about 5 feet long.
I have noticed in my visits to three of the four Iowa's that the Teakwood decks go above the main deck at least three or four more levels in the superstructure. On the South Dakota class Massachusetts they are only on the main deck. The Iowa's are truly the best of the best in terms of the quality of materials used and attention to detail in their construction. In regards to the time spent to build them, their complexity and multiplicity of systems are certainly a reason you could not reproduce them on an assembly line basis. Look how long it takes us to build an Aircraft Carrier ( some nine years). As many have said they do not build ships like these anymore .
Answers to the Gold plating question: (1) the use of riveting; (2) the trimming of seamstraps; (3) the use of scalloped seamstrap welds; (4) the machining of lap and scarf joins into the hull plating; (5) Tapered T-joints in the shell; (6) shaping the hull from the shell and having to template the frames off of the rivets; (7) having shell strakes that reverse their overlaps; (8) the riveting on top of welding on the keel; (9) the use of face hardened armor even after everyone was using capped projectiles; (10) the machining of the lower belt armor taper. (11) The machining of overly complicated joints into armor plates.---The US could never have completed 17 Essex-class during the war if they had been constructed like this. The US could have completed USS Kentucky and USS Illinois during the war had the resources been devoted to them but it would have been impossible to have built additional Iowa-class during the war due to the amount of resources they consumed to construct.
carriers are not battleships, (except the few that were) they don't have to be as armored or have as much redundancy, plus welding was problematic on early liberty ships
Gussets are used in all sorts of engineering. A failure of gusset plates has led to several bridge collapses over the years.
Also, they're used in clothes.
As a welder, I use gussets to hold up the cat walks on the car haulers we use.
There was a whole section of my structural steel design class dedicated to gusset plate design and failure analysis
35W Bridge collapse here in Minneapolis in 2007 was due to a failure of gusset plates if I recall correctly.
I read docs on the initial construction of the Iowa's and it said that all the rivets were bored individually with special air-impact drills one at a time and that none of the holes where punched out on any framing or any class A or class B armor, Now what they did during the 1980's may be a different story. Also, the scalloping was done on some sort of jig on a huge milling machine. I also read that some Class A lap joints where milled before joining with the plates and rivets. Additionally, there was a huge keyway cut into the edge of the main class A armor deck and the angled class B belt, and had big keys driven down the length of the keyway to add strength in addition to the class B belt being riveted to frames. No Oxy torches were ever used after the armor was face hardened, at least until the 80's.
Any link to that doc online?
@@davidb6576 Sadly it was years ago, but what I did came from expanded links that started at Wiki search for Battleship History, construction, armor, and on, and on.
Anbody who ever played with Legos understands the principle of gusset plates to join larger plates together.
The scalloping on those plates is not a weight saving measure in this application it is for preventing stress cracking along the plate edge as it flexes. If the edges of the plate were flat every time the deck flexes it would try to curl up the steel spanning between the rivets along the outer edge of the plate causing work hardening over time leading to cracks. Essentially this plate is built this way for the same reason you dont build an airplane with square windows. If they were really concerned about weight to that extreme level there would be far more concessions to weight savings in other parts of the ship. They could have saved as much weight by getting rid of one of the ice cream machines or any number of other things. You are correct that it is an example of "gold plating" but for longevity not weight savings.
Ice creme machines stay! The CO wants his ice cream from the machines, not frozen stores! The XO, Supply Officer, and CHENG have made that clear. A Gang will focus on the ice cream machines !
@@SSN515 That was on the priority repair list radioed by the USS Yorktown to Pearl Harbor when it was steaming back from the Coral Sea - ice cream machines are good for morale...
...US Navy repair and damage control crews working on the Yorktown were bad for IJN morale:
"We sank the Yorktown at Coral Sea..."
"Wait a second, that's the Yorktown, die, ganji, dieee!"
"We spotted a US carrier, this one wasn't the one we hit earlier..."
"...what the *****! That was Yorktown?!?! Surely we sank that ganji concubine now!"
"...um, this is Yamamoto...Tojo's laundry got wrecked, and the Yorktown's still afloat..."
"...the Silent Service has to do ALL the work!!! At least we don't have the Mark XIV's!"
"IJN, this is Admiral Nimitz...Admiral King is mad, surrender now, we got the Mark XIV's fixed!"
"Nimitz, this is Yamamoto, **** you...oh, shit, you shoots me down aieeeeeeeeee!!!"
I thought it was all about the strawberries...
4:48 C'mon Ryan, give those measurements in terms we understand. "There's a gusset plate roughly every 3.5 curators, and the ship is about 18 curators wide". :)
Reminds me of the 'Smoot' unit of measurement.
I had a client in Cambridge, MA, for whom I was writing a report that used a few physical distances. For each one, I included the distances in feet in the main text, and in parentheses I included the equivalent in meters and in smoots. The client appreciated the humor and accepted the report as it was.
That's a very different use of the term "gusset" than I've seen in years of ironworking and structural mechanics.
Probably the most "gold plated" aspect of the Iowa's is the extensive use of STS... for its time, having an armor steel with enough ductile strength to be used for structures was very expensive. To my knowledge, no other nation used an armor steel that way. The US was using it for everything in the armored citadel and the weather deck, outer hull plating, etc.
In aviation, those "gusset" plates would be a "splice plate" and that curved edge (2:24) is referred to as scalloping, which is also as a weight reduction measure. The Society of Allied Weights Engineers has 3 specialties - land vehicles, aircraft and.....marine vehicles. So, yeah, weight reduction and weight management, is important in all vehicles. In aircraft, those scalloped edged are 2 times the diameter of the fastener, plus 0.050" away from the center of the fastener. 2D is the key....the 050 is margin for a slightly misplaced, or if needed, oversize, fastener. If you measure, I'm sure you'll figure out the criteria that the Navy used to scallop the edges of those gusset, er, splice plates.
I was thinking it might also be a way of avoiding stress concentrations by not having any hard edges from the rivet holes
Perhaps they used to be called gusset plates? How old & well established are the terms you're using? Just a thought.
A few quick comments from someone who thinks about stuff. If you are bringing two pieces together, the hole patterns on both sides are a known item. You just don't randomly drill holes. So the hard part is to make sure the gusset is manufactured / milled so that the two sets of known patterns match each other. Besides, you would want some play in terms of tolerances so it can flex and move.
Second in terms of cutting away material to save on weight. This does not pass the smell test. If they are trying to save weight, they would be implementing this savings everywhere. Piping, racks, furniture, etc. My gut tells me that the out edge would experience some sort of fatigue in the metal due to the holes and stress lines radiating out if each one. To compensate, either you make the edge wider, i.e. more materteral to do the job or cutting it down to eliminate the stresses. There has to be an engineering reason.
As someone who builds stuff, your arguments seem quite flawed.
There is. Stress cracks begin at sharp corners, which is why airplane windows aren't square. Even in the cockpit where the windows look square you'll see that they are rounded at the corners.
@@ghost307 Exactly! I'm also reflecting on eyebars. It's a long piece of flat steel that has a rounded end that allows them to be mounted to a pin. They would cut the unnecessary material between eye holes to reduce weight, but why bother cutting around the hole? It has to do with stresses.
It's interesting that those cutouts were to save weight. When I saw those, I assumed it was to provide more length to a weld--similar to another video you did discussing... think joining the belt armor... Maybe it was hull armor. Either way, they did both riveting and welding because the navy didn't trust welding yet.
Ryan, did you ever explore using hard plastic in place of the marine grade plywood under the teak?? It doesn’t rot & you could just clean them up & use over & over again. Check out “Tips From a Shipwright” Lou uses them in boat construction & repair, great channel too.
Looked at it, it isn't practical for our purposes
I have seen these gusset plates that are welded as well along the scallops particularly on the 16" barbetts aboard USS Iowa. I think they are scalloped to increase the length of welded surface area (per foot).
I'd always heard the term but never knew what it was. Thanks Ryan! I so wish at least one of the Montana's had been built. Thumbs up
Very cool. Thanks!
Hey Ryan,
How much does a panel of marine grade plywood cost? I would like to buy and donate a panel to help further the restoration process of the Battleship. Also what thickness and dimensions does the panel need to be?
Plywood is generally 4'x8', they're probably using 1" since that's what he said they'd need to notch so maybe $120 or more retail price or at least that's what I've seen for marine stuff from like home depot, I'd imagine and hope that they would be able to get it from a wholesale company for less than that and maybe even in larger sheets so they can do more with one sheet of plywood.
@@BlackHawkBallistic Agreed. You can special order longer pieces of plywood but they're all 4 feet in width.
A bit less gold plated than it sounds, still extra work, but not all entirely hand cut in all cases. If you want to add the waver, drill your holes in a plate in a normal patter. Then drop that plate on a mount. Next to the mount is a table or a plank or such someone cut to have that given wave. Now turn on the torches, and just move it down the length against that log/master shape and your little rig can replicate that cutting pattern. It's a simple method that's been used for ages, even without a large special tool for it (and they should have those at a ship yard), most random people could fashion one themselves within a day, so I'd be highly doubtfull if every individual groove was truly cut by hand as it were. Perhaps hand powered to move it, but still guided so it could be faster with a simple setup to semi automate it.
Yeah those gusset plates are shaped like that for stress reduction not wight savings granted the wight savings is a bonus.
Do the decks of large ships have a slight curve or drainage system like a roof for rain water? I figure at sea they move enough where it'd likely not get a chance to pool but they sit so steady in port and at that point the deck is also a roof.
Thanks for all the great content! We're definitely going to come down one day for a tour.
Considering the pool behind Ryan, I'm going to guess no.
Should note that modern sailors, being mainly non native English speakers, often call them brackets, at least where frames are being joined
Do you guys at the battleships know the last time New Jersey was next to her sister Iowa or Wisconsin and Missouri?, I know they haven't seen each other in long time but I can't remember find anything on the last time New Jersey was with iowa or the others.
Not sure about NJ but probably for wis and Missouri would be just after the end of the gulf war.
Could it have been in January 1991. With the steam turbine engines from the USS Kentucky between the Wisconsin and Missouri (picture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SacUnrep.jpg). Speculative - SInce decom Wisconsin never left Norfolk Area.
After their final deactivation, _New Jersey_ and _Missouri_ were laid up at Bremerton, Washington. They were not berthed side by side as they had been before reactivation. _Missouri_ departed under tow in May, 1998…that would be the last time any US BB’s were together (unless you count _Arizona_ of course).
What would the tonnage be like on an Iowa but with an exterior belt armor to give same level of protection (heavier?)...and how much better could the torpedo defense be if you did that?
The weight of the steel. EVERY cubic inch of steel = .28 pounds.
How thick is the deck plating? By saving a width of 1 inch, over a 12 inch length, you save about 4 pounds on 1 inch thick.
You alluded to a class of battleship that the Navy wanted to build but they settled for the Iowa class. Can you tell us more about the class that was never built?
I think that he is referring to the Montana class, the Navy wanted 4 or 5 but never had the shipyard space to build them.
I think as someone said montanas. They had full plans drawn up i believe but were never started. Basically imagine an iowa with an extra full turret
I can't help but think that the standing pool of water is an issue to contend with. Even if it has a lot of metal beneath to eat away before any actual damage will happen.
That’s a nice gusset
Oh, you.
In several videos Ryan mentioned "because of" in compliance with" or "trying to adhere to", as pertains to the Washington Naval Treaty of the 1920's. At the time of the Iowa's construction wasn't the Washington Treaty no longer being followed? Didn't the USA stop following the treaty prior to 1941 because Japan was no longer following it?
The planning phase of the ship building was within the time of the washington naval treaty, so generally the ship follows those rules. Mostly because once yo decide how big your ship will be, weight limits are no longer a matter of policy but of buoyancy.
@@BattleshipNewJersey thank you for the clarification. My thank you is 10 months late though, sorry.
Actually, what I'd like to see, if you can find it, is just how those gusset plates were made.
I rather suspect the rivet holes were punched rather than drilled (reference rivet punchings from Titanic still existing from the yard).
Agreed. Those plates are probably one of the few parts that are pre-fabbed, likely cut and punched in bulk as longer pieces, then cut to fit on site and used as guides to drill the deck plates.
@@NFSgadzooks Nope, they were individually bored, each and every one, thru the gusset and thru the plate, and sometimes thru the frame below--at least when she was built. I have not heard anything on her 1980's refit except that there was a lot more welding. also, the scalloping was done with some type of template on a huge milling machine--not cut with a torch.
good video Ryan
the wooden deck makes more sense when you can see the plates that little raise is enough to trip
Yeah, wouldn’t want a trip hazard, when the kamikazes were diving in.
Given the way Advantech and the other engineered building material companies throw their products at construction TH-cam influencers, and the fact that you are a non-profit, maybe they could help you out with the plywood costs🤣
Face hardening armor the size of New Jersey's plates has to be the definition of gold plating. Making armor of that thickness and quality seems like it would still be challenging even today!
It would likely be more difficult today, as we don't have the steel making infrastructure that we had in the 30's. Process control might be better now, due to much better sensors and computer monitoring, but bulk manufacture? No...
@@davidb6576 Yeah the captital investment just to start doing it again at scale would be CRAZY!
Amazing to what lenghts they went, just to save a few ounces of wheight.
I'd say the conning tower. The KGV's never had one and the QE's that were retrofitted had them taken out. British command staff never used them, so why waste several hundred tons on tower armor?
The speed of the Iowa's is pretty gold plated.
"Gusset plate" sounds like either a kind of girdle my grandmother would wear or a special plate she would serve the Thanksgiving turkey on.
I'm adding gussets to these two snowblowers I'm fixing to donate because the handle bars flex which jams up the controls. Project Binky built a car out of gusseted brackets so why not a battleship.
Knee knockers are like a gusset. They give the bulkhead strength.
No. The were put in to bruise and gouge my lower legs! Navships was out to get me!
In backpacking, ounces lead to pounds, pounds lead to pain.
It’s a shame the teak wood can’t be shipped internationally, I’d love some for me dad!
to me it looks like it's more for the access to rivets on plates below
You ever tell anyone. Yeah I have a boat too.. what kind? It’s a 800’ plus battleship
"Gold Plated" ...look at all those railings! You would never see such a waste of money and weight in a star wars battle space ship.
Here is a question for you Ryan, where was the deepest crew stationed during battle stations and how long would it take them to get out if things went south?
GQ Thrust block was deepest in the ship. Doubt you could get out with Zebra set. Not in any hurry, anyway. The main engineering spaces had escape trunks put in as required updates in the 80's, so you can get out of there in a hurry.If you survived the steam leaks, that is.
The irony of setting treaty limits to try to save money on capital ship construction, only to use some extra expensive construction methods to keep inside those "cost-saving" limits.
BATTLESHIP DECK TEAKWOOD GRIPS FOR 1911 PISTOLS....... trust me people will want it .... if you make it they will buy ....
Cool
Teak wood…it’s just fun to say!
👍👍👍👊😎
Rivit holes were pre punched in the ship yard workshops not drilled on site and this isn't a gusset plate in British ship building terminology its a joining plate , cover plate or fish plate, gussets are usually at intersections of structural beams or corners of bulkheads, its possible US terminology is different though.
I'd call it a joiner or a doubler, personally. When you say "gusset" I envision a plate welded between 2 plates which meet at an angle to one another, such as a horizontal triangular piece welded into a vertical corner.
It seems to be regional difference in vocabulary
That location needs a little rehab
We're always taking volunteers!
@@BattleshipNewJerseyhow do I go about it
Well that's a Iowa too all sts steel in her vs that's what Japan and Germany used for light armor
Are those plates sts?
Yes, almost everything that is not polished brass or wood is STS on an IOWA, including the rivets. It is a very bad thing to have dissimilar metals attached together near the ocean.
BB = Bracing Belts
I have a 1/250 scale. I want to be 1/250 scale too!😆
Galley grub
around the time of the titanic i believe they were using an automated riveter or a cutting machine. can't remember which machine came first. sorr
interesting
I came here because a wrestler used this as an environment weapon
31st
You just made that weight savings theory up off the top of your head. Weight saving? Totally wrong reason. Where are all the visitors? I don't see any sign of life on shore either. Great location you're in.
We film these videos prior to the museum opening to avoid being in the way of guests.
I need quite a few millionaires or a billionaire or two si I can build a slightly scaled up replica of HMS warspite and use her as a spartanly
Furnished cruise ship with better accomodations than she ever came with but not so nice as to take away the feel of the ship, I.e. separate closable cabins for two beds , two footlockers and a very small personal head per room, and wash basin. Of course, we would take cruises to ports of call that are remote. To include live. 15” gunfire having the more wealthy passengers to really who can afford it a chance to shoot them at the equivalent price per shell. We will be shooting at a vessel that was planned to be sung as a reef to add to the ecosystem as well. All the guns Would have the opportunity to be fired as long as the ammo is paid for. Could you imagine all the class three tax stamps you would need? LMAO