ONLINE CLASSES: Intro to Celtic Mythology starts 4th January tinyurl.com/ICM25 Rashiecoats starts 15th January tinyurl.com/rashie25 Tales of the Old North starts 29th Jan. PAY-WHAT-YOU-CAN tinyurl.com/TON25 PLEASE support me on Ko-fi! (or take a class). With the political and economic uncertainty at the moment, my teaching income has dropped. Please support me on Ko-fi at: ko-fi.com/krishughes Thanks! You can always find out about upcoming classes at: tinyurl.com/GDclasses
@@KrisHughes see how we go on the Celtic Intro but I would actually like to join all your classes you mentioned, especially as I see a connection between Taliesin and the Isle of Mann (via the Sistine Chapel 🤣), oh gud, its a complicated mixed up topsy-turvy world where the story seems to exist before the landscape got built that its meant to be acted out upon! Anyone might view me as mad as Einstein! 😎👍
The tradition that King Arthur dug up Bran's head might symbolizes a shift from collective protection through ancestral power to individual heroism and centralized authority. Highlighting themes of pride, sovereignty, and a transition away from mythic guardianship. Blessings, Jim Russell /|\
What a great way to keep me busy during me winter break! Thank you for running this for a third year. Now to the question, I would say that the triad naming this action as one of three unfortunate disclosures is leading. We are meant to see this as a failing. Perhaps it is a bit of lored shared with the benefit of hindsight that Arthur's Britain fell to Saxons, because the current king failed to recognize the value of tradition and the power still afforded by the sacred acts of the ancestors. Maybe he had to dig out the roots of the Pagan past to make way for a Christian future. Later traditions tend to idolize/idealize Arthur outside of some cuckolding, but the Welsh never seemed to have an issue shying away from his shortcomings when necessary. I love that he is known as a scurrilous/frivolous/vain bard (triad 12). Personally, I like when heros have shortcomings. Not only does it make for good story telling, but it allows us to internalize that the world is rarely just full of good guys and bad guys. Sometime good guys make terrible choices or lose focus and drive after some shift in their perspective.
As someone relatively new to these texts, I grew up associating Arthur with the quest for the holy grail and all of that. Very christian stuff. Imagine my surprise when he turned up in Culwch and Olwen, which (to my thinking at the time... which was really not so long ago) was supposed to be a pagan story. Another one of those pesky christian insertions I thought. Thanks to your classes, my understanding is evolving from that quite reductive place, but my knee-jerk response to learning through your telling of it that Arthur dug up Bran's head is that the christians' hero is at it again, mucking it up for us heathens. But that leads me to further questioning that response and curiosity about what more there is to be gleaned from Arthur's stories themselves. Perhaps I'll finally crack into that copy of La Morte d'Arthur that's been collecting dust on my bookshelf. But I think I'll go dig up the Triads first and maybe look into that paper you mentioned. TL;DR Kris, you make me want to read and re-read all of the things and I love it!
I can’t remember where I first heard about Arthur digging up Bran’s head, but I do remember my initial reaction. “What the f***, Arthur?!” I was steamed. 😂 I weirdly felt personally betrayed by Arthur-who I have loved from childhood-for making it that I couldn’t pay respects to Bran when I am in London. Before hearing of this I had said a little prayer to Bran’s head when I was on a layover at Heathrow, but then to hear later that my guy Arthur was weirding out and digging stuff up because he needed to be the only messiah? Nah, just not on, my guy. To be fair, I think my prayer still counted. (I also prayed to Bran when I was wading in the sea at Towyn) And I still love Arthur, for Merlin’s sake. 😉 Yeah, I think this has been the one thing in Celtic Myth so far that I have had such a visceral reaction to. 😅 Like, I legit told my partner, “Britain is protected by Bran.” And we were both jazzed by that story, but then I had to tell him that Arthur dug him up, and he was as disappointed as I was, because from my telling him of Bran he loves Bran too. My partner was disappointed in Arthur. 😂 We both took it quite personally. Sorry this answer is very informal sounding and filled with slang, but I just wanted to convey that this was one that cut deep and is still referenced in my home. Jeez, Arthur. 😂 Thank you so much for this beautiful series, Kris! ❤
It seems that as we move forward in time, we dismiss the teaching and beliefs of the past as Mythology. Today, the words Mythology, Supernatural, and even Spiritual, are used in a derogatory manner to dismiss any truth or meaning of the past as fictional or fantasy. This is nothing new, it would seem, as we are told even King Arthur exhumed Brân's head from its resting place at White/Tower Hill. It seems Arthur felt his power was far greater than that of Brân, or maybe he was ill advised by someone that knew of Brân's power and was working against it. This still seems to go on today, as we are forcibly distanced from the past, its teaching, and truth, probably by those that fear us, and wish us to live in fear of them, in our modern reversed topsy-turvy world! Even if Brân's head had no power, per say, its removal from its resting place may have eventually brought about Arthur's demise, as any foe would have viewed it as one less defence to remove on his route to overthrow Arthur/England. It was said that Arthur had no grave, so as to perpetuate his immortality and readiness to return in England's greatest hour of need, until some bright spark saw profit to be made by announcing it was in Glastonbury! Roll in the Tourist Income! Indeed, many fortune's have been made by declaring relics of the past. Monasteries and Cathedrals made fortunes by declaring they owned the remains of Saints and a whole world wide trade was set up dealing in Religious Antiquities! Religious Pilgrims/Tourists would spend a small fortune to visit, view, and touch these relics, especially if they were suffering from an incurable disease! And who could prove or disprove the splinters of the Cross of the Crucifixion, or even a funeral shroud? Whether Brân's power was fact or fiction, Arthur would have been better advised to have left Brân alone, as even the knowledge of the myth, by any adversary, may have been enough to deter them from attacking.
I've not heard that tradition before. Like the three Brans there are a few Arthurs about too! Is it a Tudor tradition by any chance? ,) It sounds a bit petulant to me. And doesn't cast Arthur in a good light. The originator of that tradition cannot have been agenda free...
I've thought about this question all day. For me, Arthur digging up Bran's head feels like an act of disrespect towards the ancestors. We wouldnt be here at all without our ancestors. The lore that comes down connects us with groups of people who came before us. Arthur's action is really not perceived well by the lore-keepers (calling it an "unfortunate disclosure" is both poetically tragic and kinda funny?). I also think that what other commenters have said about it being symbolic of a kind of transition from a pagan way of thought to a Christian one makes a lot of sense too. Thanks for an enriching and thought provoking 12 days :)
I have always felt Arthur is a bit of an intrusion, an interloper, more a fictional than mythical character. He is a poor shade compared we to other kings, constructed rather than organic. I suspect he is an inflation of a minor character for propaganda purposes. He represents a new era. As for digging up Bran’s head I believe this is a symbolic attempt to move from a collective pagan to an individual Christian society. ‘We don’t need Bran we have Arthur and Christ,’ positioning.
I've been wondering why Arthur dug up Bran's head for some time. At first, it seemed like a rash act of hubris, but I like that is takes Arthur away from being the idealized noble king. Stories would have a difficult time imparting wisdom without imperfect characters and poor decision making. Would Sallustius say that this detail gives us a chance to practice our philosophy? Maybe he is digging up the giants of the past, the mythic leadership and continued protection of Bran, so he can establish his legacy without competition. He wants to be the sole "pen", head of the realm. Unfortunately, discarding the past comes with consequences.
I've always enjoyed the Arthurian tales though I've never been fond of Arthur. In this case it seems that Arthur is being used to represent the dominance of Christianity. And then we see what that leads to...
In short-I have no idea. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am simply not knowledgeable enough at this point to do anything but vaguely speculate, which feels a bit like groping in the dark here... But my first thought was that this comes from the tradition of Arthur as a legendary Christian king, ushering in a new generation of Christiandom which replaced the giants’ paradigm of old. As for what to make of the Mabinogi author’s framing of Arthur as a “fool,” I am rather mystified. Perhaps the author of the Mabinogi was more concerned with the preservation of pre-existing lore than is sometimes surmised, and so therefore Arthur is representative of the destruction and defilement of that very aspect of culture which the author held most dear. But the fact that there’s a Triad which also seems to cast Arthur and his digging-up of Bendigeidfran’s head in a negative light suggests that the Mabinogi author was echoing a tradition already in existence, which perhaps saw Arthur fulfilling a different role from the paragon of kingship and heroism with which he now is thought to represent. I should also say that I’ve had COVID these past couple days and so my motivation toward personal research has been cut to bare minimum along with my energy levels. But when I get my energy back this is a topic I definitely intend on looking further into and seeing what the prevailing theories surrounding it are. Happy Day 12 everyone!!! Update: I have just revisited the end of the Second Branch in the Sioned Davies translation and I see that there is actually no direct reference to Arthur, only to the Triad in which he may be implicit. So I’m assuming your direct (and derogatory) mention of him was your own flourish informed by what we know about the Triads, and not a direct quotation/translation from the Second Branch.
Arthur always seems to me to be at the crossroads of the older pagan ways and the newer Christian ones, the stories mixing old traditions and new ideas. SO Arthur is seen as a Christian King -yet he ends up not heading to heaven but Avalon, isle of apples - very much the otherworld and preChristian ideas. Isee this idea of Arthur digging up Brans head as a similar mix of old and new. The people can't bring themselves just to dismiss the old pagan idea of Brans protector head, can't ignore the folklore/mythology. They are not willing to dismiss it as pagan rubbish or just a tale. But how can you continue in the newly developing Christian world to state that there is a pagan Kings head buried in london and is protecting us. So the dilemma is solved by having the magical King Arthur -Christian warrier/King/protector to remove Brans head. This "disposes" of the need to acknowledge/venerate Bran and the old ways as protectors of the country but without having to just dismiss them as foolish or evil. A good way to hedge your bets -don't belittle the old gods just in case they are the true ones -but find a way to alter the narrative towards Christainty as providing the protection of the realm. I see it more in this sense then in the idea of a literal Arthur digging up Brans literal head -although I could image Arthur pronouncing that he has come to be true protector of the realm and so the people should follow his example and follow Christ, and look these old pagan symbols are no longer of relevance.
ONLINE CLASSES: Intro to Celtic Mythology starts 4th January tinyurl.com/ICM25
Rashiecoats starts 15th January tinyurl.com/rashie25
Tales of the Old North starts 29th Jan. PAY-WHAT-YOU-CAN tinyurl.com/TON25
PLEASE support me on Ko-fi! (or take a class). With the political and economic uncertainty at the moment, my teaching income has dropped. Please support me on Ko-fi at: ko-fi.com/krishughes Thanks!
You can always find out about upcoming classes at: tinyurl.com/GDclasses
@@KrisHughes see how we go on the Celtic Intro but I would actually like to join all your classes you mentioned, especially as I see a connection between Taliesin and the Isle of Mann (via the Sistine Chapel 🤣), oh gud, its a complicated mixed up topsy-turvy world where the story seems to exist before the landscape got built that its meant to be acted out upon! Anyone might view me as mad as Einstein! 😎👍
The tradition that King Arthur dug up Bran's head might symbolizes a shift from collective protection through ancestral power to individual heroism and centralized authority. Highlighting themes of pride, sovereignty, and a transition away from mythic guardianship.
Blessings, Jim Russell /|\
Very good series.
And thank you very much for these 12 days - another excellent Christmas diversion for me, it is much appreciated.
What a great way to keep me busy during me winter break!
Thank you for running this for a third year.
Now to the question, I would say that the triad naming this action as one of three unfortunate disclosures is leading. We are meant to see this as a failing. Perhaps it is a bit of lored shared with the benefit of hindsight that Arthur's Britain fell to Saxons, because the current king failed to recognize the value of tradition and the power still afforded by the sacred acts of the ancestors. Maybe he had to dig out the roots of the Pagan past to make way for a Christian future.
Later traditions tend to idolize/idealize Arthur outside of some cuckolding, but the Welsh never seemed to have an issue shying away from his shortcomings when necessary. I love that he is known as a scurrilous/frivolous/vain bard (triad 12). Personally, I like when heros have shortcomings. Not only does it make for good story telling, but it allows us to internalize that the world is rarely just full of good guys and bad guys. Sometime good guys make terrible choices or lose focus and drive after some shift in their perspective.
As someone relatively new to these texts, I grew up associating Arthur with the quest for the holy grail and all of that. Very christian stuff. Imagine my surprise when he turned up in Culwch and Olwen, which (to my thinking at the time... which was really not so long ago) was supposed to be a pagan story. Another one of those pesky christian insertions I thought. Thanks to your classes, my understanding is evolving from that quite reductive place, but my knee-jerk response to learning through your telling of it that Arthur dug up Bran's head is that the christians' hero is at it again, mucking it up for us heathens. But that leads me to further questioning that response and curiosity about what more there is to be gleaned from Arthur's stories themselves. Perhaps I'll finally crack into that copy of La Morte d'Arthur that's been collecting dust on my bookshelf.
But I think I'll go dig up the Triads first and maybe look into that paper you mentioned.
TL;DR Kris, you make me want to read and re-read all of the things and I love it!
I can’t remember where I first heard about Arthur digging up Bran’s head, but I do remember my initial reaction. “What the f***, Arthur?!” I was steamed. 😂 I weirdly felt personally betrayed by Arthur-who I have loved from childhood-for making it that I couldn’t pay respects to Bran when I am in London. Before hearing of this I had said a little prayer to Bran’s head when I was on a layover at Heathrow, but then to hear later that my guy Arthur was weirding out and digging stuff up because he needed to be the only messiah? Nah, just not on, my guy.
To be fair, I think my prayer still counted. (I also prayed to Bran when I was wading in the sea at Towyn) And I still love Arthur, for Merlin’s sake. 😉 Yeah, I think this has been the one thing in Celtic Myth so far that I have had such a visceral reaction to. 😅 Like, I legit told my partner, “Britain is protected by Bran.” And we were both jazzed by that story, but then I had to tell him that Arthur dug him up, and he was as disappointed as I was, because from my telling him of Bran he loves Bran too. My partner was disappointed in Arthur. 😂 We both took it quite personally.
Sorry this answer is very informal sounding and filled with slang, but I just wanted to convey that this was one that cut deep and is still referenced in my home. Jeez, Arthur. 😂
Thank you so much for this beautiful series, Kris! ❤
Oh, I just remembered where I first heard it! It was mentioned in a Mhara Starling video. Love her!
It seems that as we move forward in time, we dismiss the teaching and beliefs of the past as Mythology.
Today, the words Mythology, Supernatural, and even Spiritual, are used in a derogatory manner to dismiss any truth or meaning of the past as fictional or fantasy.
This is nothing new, it would seem, as we are told even King Arthur exhumed Brân's head from its resting place at White/Tower Hill.
It seems Arthur felt his power was far greater than that of Brân, or maybe he was ill advised by someone that knew of Brân's power and was working against it.
This still seems to go on today, as we are forcibly distanced from the past, its teaching, and truth, probably by those that fear us, and wish us to live in fear of them, in our modern reversed topsy-turvy world!
Even if Brân's head had no power, per say, its removal from its resting place may have eventually brought about Arthur's demise, as any foe would have viewed it as one less defence to remove on his route to overthrow Arthur/England.
It was said that Arthur had no grave, so as to perpetuate his immortality and readiness to return in England's greatest hour of need, until some bright spark saw profit to be made by announcing it was in Glastonbury! Roll in the Tourist Income!
Indeed, many fortune's have been made by declaring relics of the past. Monasteries and Cathedrals made fortunes by declaring they owned the remains of Saints and a whole world wide trade was set up dealing in Religious Antiquities! Religious Pilgrims/Tourists would spend a small fortune to visit, view, and touch these relics, especially if they were suffering from an incurable disease! And who could prove or disprove the splinters of the Cross of the Crucifixion, or even a funeral shroud?
Whether Brân's power was fact or fiction, Arthur would have been better advised to have left Brân alone, as even the knowledge of the myth, by any adversary, may have been enough to deter them from attacking.
I've not heard that tradition before. Like the three Brans there are a few Arthurs about too! Is it a Tudor tradition by any chance? ,)
It sounds a bit petulant to me. And doesn't cast Arthur in a good light. The originator of that tradition cannot have been agenda free...
I've thought about this question all day. For me, Arthur digging up Bran's head feels like an act of disrespect towards the ancestors. We wouldnt be here at all without our ancestors. The lore that comes down connects us with groups of people who came before us. Arthur's action is really not perceived well by the lore-keepers (calling it an "unfortunate disclosure" is both poetically tragic and kinda funny?). I also think that what other commenters have said about it being symbolic of a kind of transition from a pagan way of thought to a Christian one makes a lot of sense too. Thanks for an enriching and thought provoking 12 days :)
I have always felt Arthur is a bit of an intrusion, an interloper, more a fictional than mythical character. He is a poor shade compared we to other kings, constructed rather than organic. I suspect he is an inflation of a minor character for propaganda purposes. He represents a new era. As for digging up Bran’s head I believe this is a symbolic attempt to move from a collective pagan to an individual Christian society. ‘We don’t need Bran we have Arthur and Christ,’ positioning.
I've been wondering why Arthur dug up Bran's head for some time. At first, it seemed like a rash act of hubris, but I like that is takes Arthur away from being the idealized noble king. Stories would have a difficult time imparting wisdom without imperfect characters and poor decision making. Would Sallustius say that this detail gives us a chance to practice our philosophy? Maybe he is digging up the giants of the past, the mythic leadership and continued protection of Bran, so he can establish his legacy without competition. He wants to be the sole "pen", head of the realm. Unfortunately, discarding the past comes with consequences.
I've always enjoyed the Arthurian tales though I've never been fond of Arthur. In this case it seems that Arthur is being used to represent the dominance of Christianity. And then we see what that leads to...
In short-I have no idea. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am simply not knowledgeable enough at this point to do anything but vaguely speculate, which feels a bit like groping in the dark here... But my first thought was that this comes from the tradition of Arthur as a legendary Christian king, ushering in a new generation of Christiandom which replaced the giants’ paradigm of old. As for what to make of the Mabinogi author’s framing of Arthur as a “fool,” I am rather mystified. Perhaps the author of the Mabinogi was more concerned with the preservation of pre-existing lore than is sometimes surmised, and so therefore Arthur is representative of the destruction and defilement of that very aspect of culture which the author held most dear. But the fact that there’s a Triad which also seems to cast Arthur and his digging-up of Bendigeidfran’s head in a negative light suggests that the Mabinogi author was echoing a tradition already in existence, which perhaps saw Arthur fulfilling a different role from the paragon of kingship and heroism with which he now is thought to represent. I should also say that I’ve had COVID these past couple days and so my motivation toward personal research has been cut to bare minimum along with my energy levels. But when I get my energy back this is a topic I definitely intend on looking further into and seeing what the prevailing theories surrounding it are.
Happy Day 12 everyone!!!
Update: I have just revisited the end of the Second Branch in the Sioned Davies translation and I see that there is actually no direct reference to Arthur, only to the Triad in which he may be implicit. So I’m assuming your direct (and derogatory) mention of him was your own flourish informed by what we know about the Triads, and not a direct quotation/translation from the Second Branch.
Arthur always seems to me to be at the crossroads of the older pagan ways and the newer Christian ones, the stories mixing old traditions and new ideas. SO Arthur is seen as a Christian King -yet he ends up not heading to heaven but Avalon, isle of apples - very much the otherworld and preChristian ideas. Isee this idea of Arthur digging up Brans head as a similar mix of old and new. The people can't bring themselves just to dismiss the old pagan idea of Brans protector head, can't ignore the folklore/mythology. They are not willing to dismiss it as pagan rubbish or just a tale. But how can you continue in the newly developing Christian world to state that there is a pagan Kings head buried in london and is protecting us. So the dilemma is solved by having the magical King Arthur -Christian warrier/King/protector to remove Brans head. This "disposes" of the need to acknowledge/venerate Bran and the old ways as protectors of the country but without having to just dismiss them as foolish or evil. A good way to hedge your bets -don't belittle the old gods just in case they are the true ones -but find a way to alter the narrative towards Christainty as providing the protection of the realm. I see it more in this sense then in the idea of a literal Arthur digging up Brans literal head -although I could image Arthur pronouncing that he has come to be true protector of the realm and so the people should follow his example and follow Christ, and look these old pagan symbols are no longer of relevance.