About a dozen years ago the New Amish came to my neighborhood in Virginia. They immediately set up many businesses, mostly relating to wood products. They are very capable business people. Even though I am college educated, I find them equal s, in so many ways. Have had many conversations with them, as they rely on myself others to take them places. Everything I converse with them I learn something new. When my father passed away, in another state, they came with food, and expressed their condolences. Could not ask for nicer, fairer neighbors. God bless them, and all of us🙏🙏🙏
I taught 1st grade and one year we did a letter exchange with an Amish school from central Minnesota. It was a wonderful experience and my class loved it. The Amish student's drawings and handwriting were outstanding. It made me appreciate how hard their teacher had to work managing the different grade levels as opposed to me just teaching one.
My grandfather only had a 7th grade education. Despite having to drop out of school during the great depression, later on, he managed to provide a comfortable life for himself, his wife, and 3 children. He was a gifted mechanic, eventually even starting his own small business. Higher education is great for those who can achieve that. It can open the door for opportunities like larger income, or better job security. On the other hand, it isn't strictly necessary for people to have a decent life and provide for their family. Practical, job-specific skills are all you need sometimes. It really depends on the circumstances.
That last sentence is all the nuance needed to undermine your comment. In Asia, not going to college or worse not finishing highschool is a death sentence here as most jobs, even trade jobs, needed its workers to at leaat finish highschool...
In the united states you go into debt for years and years, and you don't find the job that pays. Unless you're going all the way: doctor or something like that, it's **generally** a waste of time. I'm a high school graduate. I worked as an editor along side ppl with master's degrees. They came and went all the time, never finding the job to pay off their loans. My husband worked his way up instead of wasting time in college. He's now the boss over college graduates. He's only 39. My hope for my home- schooled children is a trade or something similar.
Public education is brainwashing. Kids should be focusing on science, engineering and math by 8th grade... on their own. I did. My advanced degrees were achieved, totally focused.
It does depend on the circumstances. Times were much different for the Silent Generation. You could survive and be comfortable on minimum wage. College was free, but you could have a career with a High School Diploma that supported an entire family on one income, work for a company for 30 years, and have a nice retirement. All of that is gone. You really can't compare. As far as cults like this, they limit education for control purposes.
Also, I don't know how similar Amish education is to Mennonite education, but the writing and grammar textbooks I have seen from Mennonite publishers are very rigorous and completing them through 8th grade would equal many high school s
We are Lutheran homeschoolers and we use a Mennonite curriculum for math called Rod and Staff. It is very thorough and it is enough to challenge my son who is advanced in math. It teaches concepts the way I learned them and gives him plenty of practice before moving on.
yes -- I have heard of people using the Mennonite books for their own teaching. And the quality of the work is something that people forget about..... and if you think about it -- their style is similar (but not the same) and students in public school that go to what we call Vo-Tech (vocational training / tech school).
@@deannajunkin3696 Yes, I had forgotten the name, but Rod and Staff is what i was referring to. Very high quality, thorough, rigorous curriculum. Beyond what is being taught in the average public school these days. I think we need to consider that when we are talking about their education "ending" at 8th grade
It can really vary, I alluded to this in the vid - some Amish schools like the Swartzentruber ones use some very archaic textbooks (from a century+ back) which are not necessarily bad, but for instance they learn vocabulary that we don't even really use anymore. The more progressive Amish schools would use a different and more updated curriculum. The book Train Up a Child by Karen Johnson-Weiner describes this really well. But bottom line there can be a good bit of variety in the education Amish children get across schools in different groups
I've always felt that American schools should branch off after the 10th. grade. After that point, young people should either continue with traditional education and head on to college or start training in a trade school. Electrician, plumber, welder, carpenter, etc. are all great careers that can pay very well and they are always in demand. Also, once a person has learned a trade, they have that skill for the rest of their lives. Once a person leaves high school through traditional education, they usually have nothing to offer an employer, other than manual labor. This can lead to working in minimum wage job after minimum wage job or similar low paying jobs. This is something that we should really bring back into America and these trades can also be done for computer programming, coding, etc.. I have a nephew that is in 11th. grade and he attends coding training half a day, every day. College has become more about money than it has about real education. Let's be honest, there are a lot of classes that are just BS in American colleges and are in place to "help" people get degrees.......... and for the schools to make more money.
when I was in school a few decades ago -- there were two 'tracks' either those who were planning on going to higher education and those who were going straight to a job and the classes taken were based on that . And currently, in my area, we do have opportunity during HS to go to vocational school part of the HS day. You either go to your regular classes in the morning or afternoon and go for vocational training on the opposite time.
@@emmib1388 Those two "tracks" are still available to kids here in Ohio. It's a really good idea for more education/job opportunities. The courses in high school (what classes kids are taught today) just don't fit every person. I think the Amish are "on the right track." 🙂
My dad was an amazing man. Started in manufacturing on the factory floors, then worked his way up to the accounting office. He was active in the Boy Scouts and the Masons and Shriners for many years. Read everything he could get his hands on. One day, long after he had died, I was doing some yard work for my mother and a young man stopped and got out of his car to say hello. He was one of my (much younger) brother's friends from school; I hadn't seen him in years and we spent several minutes catching up. During our conversation, he asked where my father had gone to college. He was astounded when I told him that my dad had dropped out of high school in his freshman year to help support his widowed mother and two siblings! Contrast that to most of the college grads I encountered over the years, that had to be put to work sweeping floors in the stockrooms because they didn't have enough sense to do anything else. Education is what you make of it.
In the Amish community here where I live in western Pa most all of the Amish children walk to school..gotta love that in January with a foot of snow on the ground and the wind blowing..some of these schools are 3-4-5 miles apart.. although some of the Amish parents do get the buggy out and take them to school but that still means getting up at 5am getting the horse fed watered harnessed up then get to school and get the wood stove going..it's freezing cold in the school house in the morning..8yrs is long enough to deal with that.. excellent video ! 🤗🙏🏻
Being in PA, I have met several Amish (both men & women) who were EMT's. The volunteered with their local fire companies. That is training that most think of as after HS, but they did fine.
Both of my grand fathers only had a 3rd grade education, Their families needed them to work to support them. One grandfather went into the food business and did very well for himself supporting 11 children in a fine Victorian home. The other had a background in mechanics and building homes, He had 4 children who had to leave school to work due to the great depression and WW2. He worked as an Army civilian during WW1 and WW2. We need to encourage trade school education more than college education so we will not have so many college graduates who are unemployable and languishing in debt or living in their parents' basement playing video games.
My grandfather, born in 1900, only went through the eighth grade because his hard headed German parents being farmers said he only needed that. He begged to go to high school but was not allowed. So when he was eighteen he left home to go to an auto mechanic's school. But he too continued learning and loved poetry. His favorite was Longfellow,
This video reminded me that my maternal grandfather left high school to fight in "The Great War" (World War One) But he knew about lots of things and had loads of books on every topic on shelves in his "man cave" - a den filled with curios from all over the world and a globe. He had an inquisitive mind. He worked as an upholsterer, worked on antiques and eventually worked for an airline, and made a comfortable life for himself, Nana, Mom and my uncle George. Uncle George had a very high I.Q., which I think he inherited from "Pop-Pop" and was the first in the family to go through college. He became an rocket engineer, which made Pop-Pop proud.
My brother had 2 college degrees and went to work for a trucking company at the bottom(breaker). He worked his way up to Dock Foreman and then put himself through school to become a respiratory thereapist. He feels fulfilled as a RT.
We took our son out of public school when he was 12 yrs old ,he was constantly being bullied by the system ,so we schooled him at home the best we knew how ,the age of 13 had part time job and at 16 l drivers trained him he passed first try got his license and by 19 he earned his GED first try. He’s now 22 yrs of age he owns 3 vehicles all paid for he’s making 20 an hour full time plus
the word 'higher' education for modern school systems is the confusion. hand crafts and knowledge about nature and food, always was and will be the highest education possible.
@@living4mylord It's also why the US and Canada attempted to erase multiple cultures for whom knowledge about nature - and the way the mind works - WAS their highest education, to the point that their understanding in psychology far exceeded the likes of Freud and their understanding of ecology exceeded that of all but the most recent scientists (as in, they practically had Nature University, it just wasn't called a university on paper or given Eurocentric grade level labels). And what did we do in response to that? Try to kill them, institute "Kill the Indian, Save the Man", and dismiss their scholarship as magical mumbo-jumbo. When we should have put them on the same scholastic level as we did the Greeks (who, by the way, lived in houses with their hearth in the center and in some cases a round roof, a bit like living in a stone teepee/wigwam, but of course a lot of people who venerate the Greeks still don't know that, nor that Greeks used couches as feasting spaces, which is kind of a fancy equivalent of feasting on mats around a fire).
One of the problems with education is that many who accumulate degrees begin to think they know it all, and tend to think more highly of themselves than they ought. We have a big problem in the medical professions. Most doctors recommended the snake bite, while some of us could see through the whole scheme. We should all continue to educate ourselves for as long as we live. There is infinite knowledge to learn, It doesn't all have to come from a school. We can read books, watch videos, have discussions with other people, experiment, ask questions. That doesn't earn any degrees, but a person who commits to a lifetime of learning can expend as much effort as getting several PHds.
This is why I stopped birthing at the hospital. Giving birth the modern way which is convenient for the doctor and their schedule messed my body up. I'm about to have my second unassisted home birth.
I agree with the Amish Belief System here. I have used very little I learned after the 8th grade and even into college. It was more indoctrination than education. As Paul Simon sang in Kodachrome; "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all. And though my lack of education hasn't hurt me none, I can read the writing on the wall."
I started working at the gas station when I was 11, at 13, I went to work for Old Man Tucker on Gravely Tractors, at 16, I went to work for Ski-doo on Snowmobiles, At 18, I went work for Rousey tree service, at 23, I went to work for Safeway as a meat cutter apprentice while still working the Tree buisness (Two Jobs for One Year), I retired from Safeway after 33 years and went to work for myself as a General Contractor, at 56, Then at 67 I retired for good.- Thank You Jesus !
Although I am not Amish I see the wisdom of their choice. Having been a High school teacher much of what goes on in high school and up. A student needs to be very focused and not easily swayed by deceptive thinking too keep from being pulled into the a destructive direction. The main purpose for high school is to get students ready for University. The success rate of universities is very poor. It is designed mainly for the wealthy. I’m not saying it can’t be done but it consumes 6 to 10 years of your life. I’m going to stop now.
8th grade dropout here. I went on to make $30.oo a hour, at a job I loved [ operating engineer, local 139) with the best retirement and healthcare . I'm now retired and living the life. So no formal education, but still living a full, happy life. [And no school loans!😉]
that's what im talking about. education is all about making a living. if you didn't need to work there would be almost no reason to even have an education. and you succeeded hence this whole post secdonary educaiton they keep pushing is hogwash.
I really admire the Amish style of living and values and I’m so bothered by how the media mocks them. And not only the media is annoying but, also the government and their attempts to destroy Amish communities because they aren’t dependent of them.
@@LS-qw3ez What is wrong with not wanting the fallen world to influence your next generations? By that logic, basically everything is a cult including schools, libe-ral values, and even the government. I mean you do know how the libe-ral governments sanction the more traditionalist countries like Afghanistan? Why can't we question the libe-ral authority?
Historical perspective. Amish used to send their children to public schools 100 years ago when their local school was a 1 or 2 room schoolhouse and it was nearby and they knew the teacher. Then, the public schools consolidated into large buildings and left behind the old one room and two room schoolhouses in rural areas. At this point, the Amish decided they didn't like what their children were learning in the big new public schools, so they opened their own schools, which were a lot like the old public schools they knew and were familiar with. But only through 8th grade. In the 1960s there was a big controversy because of mandatory school attendance laws and some Amish went to jail rather than send their children to big modern high schools, which they objected to. The Wisconsin v. Yoder case gave the Amish a religious exemption from school attendance laws after 8th grade.
Great video, i have been binge watching your channel for past weeks. Love them all🎉. Can you do one on inheritance, how they pass on their wealth or do they give it to there community?
I live in a city with a sizeable University. And I'm constantly meeting recent "Graduates" who do NOT have the good, solid basic education of subjects that I'd learned by the 6th grade in public school during the 1960's! So, if done right; an 8th grade "Education" is certainly more then enough. BUT...... If done wrong? Even a B.A or B.S. degree from an expense school can leave you very, very under educated!!!
I dropped out in the 7th grade. I've worked in chemical vapor deposition semiconductors and been on the board of directors of riverside city college in CA. Also a electronic warfare specialist for the dod. Education isn't in the teacher it's in the student.
At least with the Amish, that 8th grade education is a solid 8th grade education. I bet the literacy rate is a solid 95%. Which beats American high school graduate literacy rates.
I think (or WISH) the Amish craftsmen would start school to teach their unique old style craftsmen skills ~ also about some of the joys and freedom of living a simple life.
Considering the bizarre things & way public schools are teaching now, the Amish aren't the only ones wanting to limit their kid's "education". We can probably learn a lot from the Amish, us teaching kids the basics, first & foremost.
Inform us,in your opinion,what bizzarre things get taught in schools and dont include rwing scare nonsense like CRT please,which is not taught.How do you think kids are going to function in the modern world with the level of education seen above?
@@robertosborne7542 In my opinion, many US schools appear to have a curriculum problem. The people below explain the situation best. Although YT or A.A. may delete this comment, understandably. (Regardless of changing times, children still need to know how to read, write & tackle basic math; problem-solve. To function in life. But their learning time is being watered down with adult social agendas; many that parents feel is their responsibility to teach & manage - not the public school system.) th-cam.com/video/Ufmcubp2szg/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/HP53CU42Ras/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/bpfGXc944v8/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/rvyhKmfbtx0/w-d-xo.html
Indoctrination aside. Limiting higher education usually stunts people from experiencing and being encouraged to ask questions. Many religions, the Amish included, don't take it well when their young people start asking questions about their faith and beliefs, like 'is the Earth really only 6000 years old?', etc. Not saying you need to have a high school or post-secondary eduction to be smart. I'd say it's more about control, since you can get by with the basics like reading and writing, you don't need to be in a lecture class questioning the theory of why we're here.
I'm happy to see someone who isn't buying into this so full throatedly. It's true that higher education is less practical and hands on, but also true that as people go on in education they start asking questions. I didn't start asking questions til then either (grew up in a cultish church). There is a difference between intelligence, and seeing a wider world out there. Amish are every bit as smart as the most educated person. I believe the environment in college, vs the courses, per se, is why kids start questioning.
Honestly some of the skills I've learned in highschool are still useful in day to day life. I know how to balance checkbooks and do finances. I know why I shouldn't randomly mix certain chemicals like Amonia and Bleach. I know the basics of how my body functions so I can tell if somethings wrong. And I know how to not repeat history. Though the most important skill I learned was how to use a Computer. Even minimum wage jobs require a basic understanding of how to use a computer and now a days, most if not all job applications are digital, and nobody accepts hand written resumes.
I’ve always said that everything I’ve needed to know in life I learned by the 8th grade. Only people that get into specialty fields that need more education, need more than just 8th grade.
Keeping kids ignorant isn't good parenting. They should be encouraged to learn as much as possible, including practical skills and then also encouraged to think for themselves.
How do they get around compulsory education laws that require students to be in school until the age of 16, and in some cases, 18, without the students and parents being charged with truancy, and children removed from the home and put in foster care for repeated violations?
Public schools are designed to provide the manual labor force: after covid struck they were upgraded to the title of essential workers, which the 1% needs to keep its stranglehold on the nation's economy.
so true! Many years ago , I read an article in a magazine about ways to recycle or go green (can't remember the specific term at the time)....some suggestions -- eat leftovers, shop thrift stores, use jelly jars for something else, etc. All things that the earlier generations have been doing for... generations! they were acting as if these were new things! The Bible tells us that there is nothing new under the sun.
We used to do that, trade schools were called Technical colleges. Now you do tha similar thing during your apprenticeship at a TAFE. Whose courses are designed in conjunction with industry.
@@kimfleury Yeah, though in our State they’re going to make some courses free again, esp to do with apprenticeships and aged care. I understand they’re going to Chuck in a tool allowance for trade apprentices and cheap rego on their utes or something like that.
People need to stop pushing the stupid and wrong idea that higher education is necessary for happiness or for personal success. Not everyone wants to be a white collar worker. We need more blue collar workers. And blue collar work is great and important. As a black American woman, I wasted my money and I wasted my time getting a bachelors degree and a masters degree when I'm really not career oriented after all and now I have all of this student loan debt for nothing. I would've been just as well off with an associate's degree from my hometown community college and I could've gotten a great job with that. A career is not the important thing in my life. A career doesn't define me. It's really stupid to be so closed minded and to think that university degrees are the only pathway to success in life because they're not.
Great information, I think for their purposes maybe the limited education is really all they need. I don't know what's really the right thing or the wrong thing in this case, but I think everyone no matter their religion needs to make their own personal choices for themselves and their families. Growing up many of my generation had parents and grandparents who attended one room schoolhouses and many including both of my parents never went on to have a college education. Military occupied 20 years of my dads life and then he worked a blue-collar job in a factory, while my mom stayed home and raised the family and she only had an 8th grade education, not because of religion, it was just that her family needed some financial assistance, so the older kids dropped out of school and got jobs, it was indeed a different time. My mom out of necessity when she was in her 40's and my dad had passed away needed to get her GED so that she could get a job to support our household. Both of my parents did a great job without higher education, we always had a roof over our head, food on the table for all of our meals and clothing on our backs. In today's day and age, I sent my daughter to college, something I never did, and I'm proud to say if need be, could support her family. Thanks for sharing another awesome bit of information.
Good comment and example, yes it's possible that too many people are going into higher education today because that is the overriding message we hear in the US at least, gotta go to college. Which can lead to unhappiness and lost potential when someone struggles to find work with a non-practical degree (not to mention the student debt).
this is like in the 19th century the rural farm folks had better math and literacy skills than the city folks. so its not just about how many grades but quality of education. it's like you going back in time and trying your hand in 18th century education you would find kids in tha time period would probably have better literacy, arithmetic, and reding skills than adults today....
While I can respect that they do not feel the need for higher education, I would argue that higher education is necessary for a society to advance. Not just scientifically, but also socially, higher education allows for abstractions about the nature of the world, than nature of humanity, the nature of God. It allows people to understand others without having ever met that person. This allows for conflict resolution and mixed ethnicity/religion communities which is a mainstay of a global culture. While the Amish society has little need of these things, and I can respect that, I do think the self-imposed intellectual and cultural isolation is counterproductive to long term survivability of their people.
I’m am unsure how I went down a rabbit hole of Amish community videos, but I would have to say that when I first heard that they only go up to 8th grade- I immediately turned my face up because “tHaT’s NoT rIgHt” but after watching this video I totally see their points which are valid as I reflect on the education I received past the 8the grade. Did they really add value or was I, like so many others, conditioned to believe that this is a must & there are no other options. Now that I have a child, I am strongly considering homeschooling him because I want him to truly learn & explore & not be pent up in a classroom for 8+ hours.
Granted, there’s a lot of fluff out there, even in College... But given today’s climate where I even am having problems, I can’t perceive not having the solid background of a full education. I am a Christian, too.
A rural agricultural or handiwork based lifestyle is very rewarding, so for most Amish it is probably not much of a conflict. I wouldn't want to have felt pressured as a child to avoid higher education, however, because it is the thing which I find most rewarding in my life.
I know in my community the Amish school places a heavy emphasis on basic math and critical reading. Their perspective is simply that math, beyond the need for construction/building and computing for business operations, is simply irrelevant to their needs.
I am not Amish. But I have interacted with a Amish community in Illinois back in the day. They were allowed to have phones ( Black dial phones) Plus they had cars. ( Black cars) I was trying to sell them a vacuum cleaner. They did have electricity. I found them very pleasant and polite people. I noted that they also used mechanical farm equipment. But they all looked the part as Amish. I was curious about their lifestyle so I asked many questions. The interesting part for me. I was actually trying to sell them a vacuum cleaner. And part of our offer was to shampoo a room of carpet for free. They like free things so I had no problems making appointments. And I noted that at each home. When I asked what type of Vacuum cleaner they had. They would drag out a older Elecrolux canister vac. I think I did like 4 shows. No sale. But I figured man if I just get one. They will all buy like they did with the Canister vac. Finally I get a young newly wed and his wife. "Omar" May be 20 years old. I asked what type of Vacuum they had. Out pops a old Electrolux. I get done with the show and ask if he liked the Kirby and if he might trade in the Electrolux. He said yes may be. " blink blink.". Ohh kay I gave him one heck of a cash deal. I made ZERO dollars. But I figured I would make it up selling to all his family trading in those electrolux's. Ok so I get back to the office about 35 miles away. I have this big grin on my face. " GOT ONE!!!!" I had the phone person call every Hostetler in the area and set me a slew of appointments for the next two weeks. Thinking I am going to get them all. Ok so the next Monday I get an appointment out there. I show up have a nice greet. Got the Kirby all un packed and set up. What kind of Vacuum do you have now? ( Expecting an old Electrolux canister) " Oh we have a Kirby!!" NOOOOO!!! It was the one I sold to Omar. They share everything. D'oh..... Not only did I not make a dime on my Omar sale. But I spent two weeks shampooing carpets for free. Lesson learned.. You know what happens when you Assume?
The one question I have - do the Amish use older textbooks? If so, they probably receive an firmer and better education than is generally the case in American public schools. Look at pdf's on 19th math books, and you can tell an education from these materials leaves the Amish person very well suited for their future needs.
@@AmishAmerica I thought so. You can go to the internet for pdf files of these materials. The math ones would be rather hard for today's public school student. No real amount of pretty pictures... So, the Amish are very likely to have a very solid education without needing to go further with it. I never found Amish to be 'simple minded' but a very firm study.
I think many people equate American public 8th grade education with the Amish 8th grade education. These have VERY different content and focus. There is so much time wasted in public education, including the constant indoctrination on topics which have zero to do with reading, writing, and arithmetic. So those who look down on the Amish for this (and homeschooling too), you ought to familiarize yourself with the state of education in our country before jumping to conclusions.
I started habitually skipping school in 6th grade. I would always have some excuse but I found out what the assignments were and maintained nearly straight A's with less than an hour of work per day of school I missed. I found school to be a complete waste of time. 6-7 hours with 6-52 minute classes with each one spending time doing roll call and administrative functions and preparing for the end of class. Going to school made me hate the concept of people and not only did it waste my day, I still had to spend the same amount of time at home doing school work because of homework assignments and class work not being able to be done in class because the teacher was busy sending John and Jane Doe to the principal. In high school they had implemented a policy of 11 absences in any class per semester would fail the class. This was combined with the classes being longer but every other day. I maximized my tolerance by strategically getting 10 absences in every class without ever missing 2 classes in the same day and still graduated early. My counselor couldn't understand how I was never in school but I was passing a full schedule plus early bird plus credit for working a full time job plus I went so far as to take English classes via VHS correspondence to graduate early. The school wasted my time and gave me a diploma unworthy of use as toilet paper. I'm sure an Amish 8th grade education would be more effective than the public schools in urban cities in the US.
It sure sounds like you're implying that topics like "science" fall under the Indoctrination category. Is "RRR" the only goal of education? I'm partial to Chemistry and Biology myself.
I feel sorry for you. You think the rest of us are “indoctrinated” while it is those who believe in the great “space ghost” who are truly indoctrinated.
@@AmeriMutt76 And the thing with science, is there are some truly weird and wacky things about animals that you don't even learn about in grad school that should be taught as early as elementary school but aren't because, for instance, god forbid we realize that "queen" ants and bees don't actually rule and that bees besides the queen don't actually have one lot in life that they are stuck in until they die (their tasks are strictly age-based, to the point that they actually stop aging during the winter so they don't run out of any types of task-doers). But since these sorts of facts contradict hierarchical narratives, you don't even hear about them in undergrad. That's a shame. Because material like this can be understood in a simple capacity by kids, yet you have to wait until grad school to hear it. With the only exception maybe being the debunking of the "alpha wolf" theory, but people don't even always hear about that - and some mistreat their dogs as a result. I ran across a guy who wouldn't even let his chihuahua stand up to demurely lick my hand while I petted her, no doubt to enforce the idea of him being the "alpha", which is not just BS in that case, but outright mean - a chihuahua is little and needs some room to stand to interact with you at all.
Mennonites also limit their education to eighth grade. A friend of mine is Mennonite and their children also go into apprenticeship for a trade of their choosing.
They mostly stop education at 8th grade because of tradition and so the child can go to work to help support the family. Back in the day many Amish families were very poor and benefited from the child going to work on the farm, in a shop or family business. Also, many Anish today are very well off as their communities have become large tourists' attractions and many of the Amish have restaurants, craft stores and furniture stores, etc.,
The real reason why Amish ordinarily allow education through the eighth grade is located in your second stated reason. The very crux of the matter lies in the fact that the Amish instinctively know that developing the power of critical thinking and analysis would be the rapid death of their way of life among their own children. To state the idea as regards all cults, whether they be religious or political or whatever, all special interest groups must enforce internal rules that DISCOURAGE the practice of closely examining the tenets of such groups in relation to other contemporary organizations in order to draw comparisons of how their teachings stack up to other such groups. Here is where the "rubber would hit the road" so to speak; such comparisons would require that one would very clearly spot the unhappy (or happy) results of the restrictive teachings and beliefs. To give a concrete example of what I am saying, observe that most fundamental churches absolutely forbid their members from examing the teachings of other contemporary churches while giving the reason that the church member would be "led astray or confused or damned or whatever" when the real reason is that the member might just actually be made aware of the shortcomings of their own present church body. In the last analysis, none of us can fully understand our own group beliefs until we have been allowed to study beliefs outside our own group leading to a comparison of the two systems.
As a Christian, homeschooling family, I complete get this! We cater our high school education to the child... the length of time and the studies that are needed for that child to enter the profession they feel lead to, along with leaning heavy on history of the Jews and the church, values / character, the Bible, and debt free living.
But homeschooling goes much further than 8th grade. And a lot of homeschooled kids (Christian or not) do enter colleges and get professional positions. So this analogy is a little odd.
I feel like this traps people who want to leave. Yes in their soceity you only need 8 grades, but it's gonna be hard to find a place in soceity with only 8 grades.
It certainly is useful to keep people from leaving the group and good for marginalizing women from equal opportunity. Most Amish I know went past 7th grade. Amish are generally nice, but not all nice.
I think part of the problem is conflating schooling and education. At first glance less than 12 years of formal compulsory schooling may seem odd, but is it really the case? English primary and secondary schools are 10 years, but a few years ago the law was amended to require 12 years of education, which may mean those who leave school at age 16 still have to obtain further education, such as an apprenticeship. Britain is not alone as 10 years compulsory schooling is common throughout Europe. Germany is 9 years typically, though it varies by state. Further, if a student is placed in a hauptschule or realschule many of the later years are spent learning a trade. Switzerland is also 9 years of compulsory schooling. Japan too. Singapore is 10 years.
As with all religious indoctrination, knowlege is to be feared. People who open their minds to the real world are a threat to the mythologies taught in religious institutions.
They get the basics in grammar school, 1-8. I know many Amish who’ve gotten their GED or taken high school or college level courses for particular jobs and skills.
The Amish limit the education of their children to the 8th grade because that severely limits the Amish youths' opportunities outside of the Amish community. Something like 90% of children raised Old Order (the most strict) Amish "choose" to remain Amish as adults primarily because they have no other realistic choice. It's practically slavery by child abuse.
This should be against the law. All children should go to public schools and all schools should be equally funded. Where is our separation of church and state?
I don’t necessarily agree. The young Amish are sent out into the world when they are of age to see if they like it or not. They have a choice. But, that choice has consequences, both pro and con.
@@marydooley4446 Young Amish are NOT sent out into the world! This is a very wrong perception of "runspringa" which is the result of "scripted reality" shows like "Amish in the City" and "Breaking Amish" that portray Amish youth in a way that is quite different from what most young Amish actually do and how they behave. For many generations, Amish parents have experienced that forbidding many things does the opposite, so when young people reach age 16 and do things that the Amish order does not allow, Amish parents don't forbid that or turn a blind eye on that. Almost all Amish parents prefer that their young people stay at home or near them and behave well and respect Amish rules. I lived with the Amish and speak their language, Pennsylvania Dutch and German is my native language.
@@marydooley4446 You are absolutely wrong! Nobody among the Amish is sent out into the world! You should read the books of scholars who are known for their expertise among other scholars as well as among the Amish themselves. The most renowned of these are Donald B. Kraybill, Steven M. Nolt, Karen M. Johnson-Weiner and the deceased John A. Hostetler. Forget all the garbage movies about the Amish like “Amish in the City”, “Breaking Amish” or “Amish Mafia” which have little to with reality. I did not only read most of the literature of the above mentioned scholars, I also lived among different Amish groups and speak their language, Pennsylvania Dutch.
@@marydooley4446 Again: Nobody is sent out into the world or sent away in any way! But Amish parents know that after a certain age - normally 16 years - they cannot hold back their young people when they do "rumshpringa" or when they want to leave. Many young Amish never leave their home or their community, especially girls. The live with their parents until the leave home for marriage. You should read Tom Shachtman's book "Rumspringa: To Be or Not to Be Amish" or Richard A. Stevick's "Growing up Amish: The Teenage Years". The movie "Devil's Playground" of 2002 is also very close to what's acually happening, even though it shows rather extreme examples. I know the Elkart-LaGrange and the Nappanee Amish settlements, the home of Faron Yoder and the other Amish kids of the movie.
Curious what the nails, labeled w/names, above the sink are for? I think education needs to get back to what is practical and needed for each person instead of everyone must go to college even if it doesn't make sense for them.
What do they do with mentally handicapped kids, especially in the stricter communities? Do they send them to school at all? Will they ever send them to public school so they can get special services or therapy that the community can't provide, even in communities where they would normally never send other kids to public schools?
i don't get why so many people on this comment section is bashing the amish way of life. like they do what they do. you don't hear about them having so many issues americans are facing... they're thriving. their birthrates are holding and they seem to be content with their lives... i mean what else could you ask for
That's not how it works. People are skilled for different jobs. We need skilled labor and we need software engineers just as we need doctors and dentists. I do agree that it is a pity that people look down on blue collar work. All jobs have a place in society
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About a dozen years ago the New Amish came to my neighborhood in Virginia. They immediately set up many businesses, mostly relating to wood products. They are very capable business people. Even though I am college educated, I find them equal s, in so many ways. Have had many conversations with them, as they rely on myself others to take them places. Everything I converse with them I learn something new. When my father passed away, in another state, they came with food, and expressed their condolences. Could not ask for nicer, fairer neighbors. God bless them, and all of us🙏🙏🙏
They are very kind. We live in a big Amish community and we need them as well as they need us. They’re fair business folks and so kind always
I taught 1st grade and one year we did a letter exchange with an Amish school from central Minnesota. It was a wonderful experience and my class loved it. The Amish student's drawings and handwriting were outstanding. It made me appreciate how hard their teacher had to work managing the different grade levels as opposed to me just teaching one.
My grandfather only had a 7th grade education. Despite having to drop out of school during the great depression, later on, he managed to provide a comfortable life for himself, his wife, and 3 children. He was a gifted mechanic, eventually even starting his own small business. Higher education is great for those who can achieve that. It can open the door for opportunities like larger income, or better job security. On the other hand, it isn't strictly necessary for people to have a decent life and provide for their family. Practical, job-specific skills are all you need sometimes. It really depends on the circumstances.
That last sentence is all the nuance needed to undermine your comment. In Asia, not going to college or worse not finishing highschool is a death sentence here as most jobs, even trade jobs, needed its workers to at leaat finish highschool...
In the united states you go into debt for years and years, and you don't find the job that pays. Unless you're going all the way: doctor or something like that, it's **generally** a waste of time. I'm a high school graduate. I worked as an editor along side ppl with master's degrees. They came and went all the time, never finding the job to pay off their loans. My husband worked his way up instead of wasting time in college. He's now the boss over college graduates. He's only 39. My hope for my home- schooled children is a trade or something similar.
Public education is brainwashing. Kids should be focusing on science, engineering and math by 8th grade... on their own. I did. My advanced degrees were achieved, totally focused.
@@RunninUpThatHillh I second that
It does depend on the circumstances. Times were much different for the Silent Generation. You could survive and be comfortable on minimum wage. College was free, but you could have a career with a High School Diploma that supported an entire family on one income, work for a company for 30 years, and have a nice retirement. All of that is gone. You really can't compare. As far as cults like this, they limit education for control purposes.
My Amish friends oldest son, 12, in summer, trains mules. And he is mighty good at it. Old order, Holmes Co Ohio.
I knew a librarian who had an Amish family come in on a regular bases. The one boy liked astronomy and the girl liked history.
Sad for the boy. He will not be able to learn science. Which is, uh, astronomy.
Also, I don't know how similar Amish education is to Mennonite education, but the writing and grammar textbooks I have seen from Mennonite publishers are very rigorous and completing them through 8th grade would equal many high school s
We are Lutheran homeschoolers and we use a Mennonite curriculum for math called Rod and Staff. It is very thorough and it is enough to challenge my son who is advanced in math. It teaches concepts the way I learned them and gives him plenty of practice before moving on.
yes -- I have heard of people using the Mennonite books for their own teaching. And the quality of the work is something that people forget about..... and if you think about it -- their style is similar (but not the same) and students in public school that go to what we call Vo-Tech (vocational training / tech school).
@@deannajunkin3696 Yes, I had forgotten the name, but Rod and Staff is what i was referring to. Very high quality, thorough, rigorous curriculum. Beyond what is being taught in the average public school these days. I think we need to consider that when we are talking about their education "ending" at 8th grade
It can really vary, I alluded to this in the vid - some Amish schools like the Swartzentruber ones use some very archaic textbooks (from a century+ back) which are not necessarily bad, but for instance they learn vocabulary that we don't even really use anymore. The more progressive Amish schools would use a different and more updated curriculum. The book Train Up a Child by Karen Johnson-Weiner describes this really well. But bottom line there can be a good bit of variety in the education Amish children get across schools in different groups
We use a Mennonite grammar program and the 8th level is equivalent or higher than most 12th grade public school grammer instruction.
I've always felt that American schools should branch off after the 10th. grade. After that point, young people should either continue with traditional education and head on to college or start training in a trade school. Electrician, plumber, welder, carpenter, etc. are all great careers that can pay very well and they are always in demand. Also, once a person has learned a trade, they have that skill for the rest of their lives. Once a person leaves high school through traditional education, they usually have nothing to offer an employer, other than manual labor. This can lead to working in minimum wage job after minimum wage job or similar low paying jobs. This is something that we should really bring back into America and these trades can also be done for computer programming, coding, etc.. I have a nephew that is in 11th. grade and he attends coding training half a day, every day. College has become more about money than it has about real education. Let's be honest, there are a lot of classes that are just BS in American colleges and are in place to "help" people get degrees.......... and for the schools to make more money.
when I was in school a few decades ago -- there were two 'tracks' either those who were planning on going to higher education and those who were going straight to a job and the classes taken were based on that . And currently, in my area, we do have opportunity during HS to go to vocational school part of the HS day. You either go to your regular classes in the morning or afternoon and go for vocational training on the opposite time.
@@emmib1388 Those two "tracks" are still available to kids here in Ohio. It's a really good idea for more education/job opportunities. The courses in high school (what classes kids are taught today) just don't fit every person. I think the Amish are "on the right track." 🙂
@@emmib1388
That's what we need to initiate for the entire nation, especially in schools that have a large academic fail rate.
@@notsosilentmajority1 I don't think those involved in making money off of the college loans would like that !
@@emmib1388
I have a feeling you are absolutely right.
My dad was an amazing man. Started in manufacturing on the factory floors, then worked his way up to the accounting office. He was active in the Boy Scouts and the Masons and Shriners for many years. Read everything he could get his hands on. One day, long after he had died, I was doing some yard work for my mother and a young man stopped and got out of his car to say hello. He was one of my (much younger) brother's friends from school; I hadn't seen him in years and we spent several minutes catching up. During our conversation, he asked where my father had gone to college. He was astounded when I told him that my dad had dropped out of high school in his freshman year to help support his widowed mother and two siblings! Contrast that to most of the college grads I encountered over the years, that had to be put to work sweeping floors in the stockrooms because they didn't have enough sense to do anything else. Education is what you make of it.
In the Amish community here where I live in western Pa most all of the Amish children walk to school..gotta love that in January with a foot of snow on the ground and the wind blowing..some of these schools are 3-4-5 miles apart.. although some of the Amish parents do get the buggy out and take them to school but that still means getting up at 5am getting the horse fed watered harnessed up then get to school and get the wood stove going..it's freezing cold in the school house in the morning..8yrs is long enough to deal with that.. excellent video ! 🤗🙏🏻
And its uphill....both ways.
Being in PA, I have met several Amish (both men & women) who were EMT's. The volunteered with their local fire companies. That is training that most think of as after HS, but they did fine.
I have a friend with a son who is an EMT👍
You go to school to be an EMT or paramedic. That has nothing to do with general education.
Both of my grand fathers only had a 3rd grade education, Their families needed them to work to support them. One grandfather went into the food business and did very well for himself supporting 11 children in a fine Victorian home. The other had a background in mechanics and building homes, He had 4 children who had to leave school to work due to the great depression and WW2. He worked as an Army civilian during WW1 and WW2. We need to encourage trade school education more than college education so we will not have so many college graduates who are unemployable and languishing in debt or living in their parents' basement playing video games.
My grandfather, born in 1900, only went through the eighth grade because his hard headed German parents being farmers said he only needed that. He begged to go to high school but was not allowed. So when he was eighteen he left home to go to an auto mechanic's school. But he too continued learning and loved poetry. His favorite was Longfellow,
This video reminded me that my maternal grandfather left high school to fight in "The Great War" (World War One) But he knew about lots of things and had loads of books on every topic on shelves in his "man cave" - a den filled with curios from all over the world and a globe. He had an inquisitive mind. He worked as an upholsterer, worked on antiques and eventually worked for an airline, and made a comfortable life for himself, Nana, Mom and my uncle George. Uncle George had a very high I.Q., which I think he inherited from "Pop-Pop" and was the first in the family to go through college. He became an rocket engineer, which made Pop-Pop proud.
Our daughters went to an Amish school with our Amish friends. We homeschool so this was super fun for our girls.
My brother had 2 college degrees and went to work for a trucking company at the bottom(breaker). He worked his way up to Dock Foreman and then put himself through school to become a respiratory thereapist. He feels fulfilled as a RT.
We took our son out of public school when he was 12 yrs old ,he was constantly being bullied by the system ,so we schooled him at home the best we knew how ,the age of 13 had part time job and at 16 l drivers trained him he passed first try got his license and by 19 he earned his GED first try. He’s now 22 yrs of age he owns 3 vehicles all paid for he’s making 20 an hour full time plus
the word 'higher' education for modern school systems is the confusion.
hand crafts and knowledge about nature and food, always was and will be the highest education possible.
Which is why it is undermined the majority of the time. This has been devastating.
@@living4mylord It's also why the US and Canada attempted to erase multiple cultures for whom knowledge about nature - and the way the mind works - WAS their highest education, to the point that their understanding in psychology far exceeded the likes of Freud and their understanding of ecology exceeded that of all but the most recent scientists (as in, they practically had Nature University, it just wasn't called a university on paper or given Eurocentric grade level labels).
And what did we do in response to that? Try to kill them, institute "Kill the Indian, Save the Man", and dismiss their scholarship as magical mumbo-jumbo. When we should have put them on the same scholastic level as we did the Greeks (who, by the way, lived in houses with their hearth in the center and in some cases a round roof, a bit like living in a stone teepee/wigwam, but of course a lot of people who venerate the Greeks still don't know that, nor that Greeks used couches as feasting spaces, which is kind of a fancy equivalent of feasting on mats around a fire).
Another fine video! It is ironic that some of our children go on to college and still know as much as an 8th grader!
That's because too many young people attend college just to drink, do drugs, and party. They waste the opportunity to be educated.
I teach at a college. Lower level math students simply don't WANT to learn. You can bring the horse to the water, you can't force it to drink
As always educational and entertaining
I kind of agree. That higher education doesn't mean a person will be smarter or better at anything they put their mind to. Thank you.
And sometimes it can work in the opposite direction
@@AmishAmerica What an odd take. So you think it's best if your children don't go to school? Did you?
And sometimes it can work in the opposite direction.
If you can read you can learn, If you can hear you can listen - lifelong.
Thank you! Your videos are always so informative.
Thank you Susan!
The Amish are more educated than most, in valuable skills like building, fixing, running a farm, cooking, etc.
One of the problems with education is that many who accumulate degrees begin to think they know it all, and tend to think more highly of themselves than they ought. We have a big problem in the medical professions. Most doctors recommended the snake bite, while some of us could see through the whole scheme.
We should all continue to educate ourselves for as long as we live. There is infinite knowledge to learn, It doesn't all have to come from a school. We can read books, watch videos, have discussions with other people, experiment, ask questions. That doesn't earn any degrees, but a person who commits to a lifetime of learning can expend as much effort as getting several PHds.
We know a lot. You have no idea what an education is.
This is why I stopped birthing at the hospital. Giving birth the modern way which is convenient for the doctor and their schedule messed my body up. I'm about to have my second unassisted home birth.
Thats great. Blessings on you and your new home birthed baby. I really know what you are talking about here and I agree 150%
Clot shot gets the point across better than snake bite.
Snake bite is a good way to describe it.
I agree with the Amish Belief System here. I have used very little I learned after the 8th grade and even into college. It was more indoctrination than education. As Paul Simon sang in Kodachrome; "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all. And though my lack of education hasn't hurt me none, I can read the writing on the wall."
I started working at the gas station when I was 11, at 13, I went to work for Old Man Tucker on Gravely Tractors, at 16, I went to work for Ski-doo on Snowmobiles, At 18, I went work for Rousey tree service, at 23, I went to work for Safeway as a meat cutter apprentice while still working the Tree buisness (Two Jobs for One Year), I retired from Safeway after 33 years and went to work for myself as a General Contractor, at 56, Then at 67 I retired for good.- Thank You Jesus !
Good explanation. Very well done.
Thank you!
Although I am not Amish I see the wisdom of their choice. Having been a High school teacher much of what goes on in high school and up. A student needs to be very focused and not easily swayed by deceptive thinking too keep from being pulled into the a destructive direction. The main purpose for high school is to get students ready for University. The success rate of universities is very poor. It is designed mainly for the wealthy. I’m not saying it can’t be done but it consumes 6 to 10 years of your life. I’m going to stop now.
Education doesn’t mean intelligent and intelligent doesn’t have to mean educated
8th grade dropout here. I went on to make $30.oo a hour, at a job I loved [ operating engineer, local 139) with the best retirement and healthcare . I'm now retired and living the life. So no formal education, but still living a full, happy life. [And no school loans!😉]
that's what im talking about. education is all about making a living. if you didn't need to work there would be almost no reason to even have an education. and you succeeded hence this whole post secdonary educaiton they keep pushing is hogwash.
I really admire the Amish style of living and values and I’m so bothered by how the media mocks them. And not only the media is annoying but, also the government and their attempts to destroy Amish communities because they aren’t dependent of them.
@@LS-qw3ez What is wrong with not wanting the fallen world to influence your next generations? By that logic, basically everything is a cult including schools, libe-ral values, and even the government.
I mean you do know how the libe-ral governments sanction the more traditionalist countries like Afghanistan? Why can't we question the libe-ral authority?
My ex girlfriend was Amish for most of her life before she went to college and got her nursing degree. The Amish are as diverse as regular people.
I sure do appreciate your methods for information about the Amish way of life. Have you done any videos yet on home birthing vs hospital?
I have! Here you go: th-cam.com/video/DklOJ7Yy0GI/w-d-xo.html
Historical perspective. Amish used to send their children to public schools 100 years ago when their local school was a 1 or 2 room schoolhouse and it was nearby and they knew the teacher. Then, the public schools consolidated into large buildings and left behind the old one room and two room schoolhouses in rural areas. At this point, the Amish decided they didn't like what their children were learning in the big new public schools, so they opened their own schools, which were a lot like the old public schools they knew and were familiar with. But only through 8th grade. In the 1960s there was a big controversy because of mandatory school attendance laws and some Amish went to jail rather than send their children to big modern high schools, which they objected to. The Wisconsin v. Yoder case gave the Amish a religious exemption from school attendance laws after 8th grade.
good for the amish. they're the last batch of sane people left in america.
Great video, i have been binge watching your channel for past weeks. Love them all🎉. Can you do one on inheritance, how they pass on their wealth or do they give it to there community?
There is one on the Amish & wealth where I at least touch on that - did you see that one?
I live in a city with a sizeable University. And I'm constantly meeting recent "Graduates" who do NOT have the good, solid basic education of subjects that I'd learned by the 6th grade in public school during the 1960's!
So, if done right; an 8th grade "Education" is certainly more then enough.
BUT......
If done wrong? Even a B.A or B.S. degree from an expense school can leave you very, very under educated!!!
I dropped out in the 7th grade. I've worked in chemical vapor deposition semiconductors and been on the board of directors of riverside city college in CA. Also a electronic warfare specialist for the dod. Education isn't in the teacher it's in the student.
At least with the Amish, that 8th grade education is a solid 8th grade education. I bet the literacy rate is a solid 95%. Which beats American high school graduate literacy rates.
I think (or WISH) the Amish craftsmen would start school to teach their unique old style craftsmen skills ~ also about some of the joys and freedom of living a simple life.
Considering the bizarre things & way public schools are teaching now, the Amish aren't the only ones wanting to limit their kid's "education". We can probably learn a lot from the Amish, us teaching kids the basics, first & foremost.
We can learn from our own forefathers.
Inform us,in your opinion,what bizzarre things get taught in schools and dont include rwing scare nonsense like CRT please,which is not taught.How do you think kids are going to function in the modern world with the level of education seen above?
@@robertosborne7542 In my opinion, many US schools appear to have a curriculum problem. The people below explain the situation best. Although YT or A.A. may delete this comment, understandably. (Regardless of changing times, children still need to know how to read, write & tackle basic math; problem-solve. To function in life. But their learning time is being watered down with adult social agendas; many that parents feel is their responsibility to teach & manage - not the public school system.)
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@@robertosborne7542 we are taught propaganda . We never went to the moon for one thing . Only God is important .
@@cathy1679 Who?dont recognise anything called god,doesnt exist for me
Indoctrination aside. Limiting higher education usually stunts people from experiencing and being encouraged to ask questions.
Many religions, the Amish included, don't take it well when their young people start asking questions about their faith and beliefs, like 'is the Earth really only 6000 years old?', etc. Not saying you need to have a high school or post-secondary eduction to be smart. I'd say it's more about control, since you can get by with the basics like reading and writing, you don't need to be in a lecture class questioning the theory of why we're here.
I'm happy to see someone who isn't buying into this so full throatedly. It's true that higher education is less practical and hands on, but also true that as people go on in education they start asking questions. I didn't start asking questions til then either (grew up in a cultish church). There is a difference between intelligence, and seeing a wider world out there. Amish are every bit as smart as the most educated person. I believe the environment in college, vs the courses, per se, is why kids start questioning.
If people knew the actual functional knowledge of students coming out of public high school, they would not consider this a big deal
Honestly some of the skills I've learned in highschool are still useful in day to day life. I know how to balance checkbooks and do finances. I know why I shouldn't randomly mix certain chemicals like Amonia and Bleach. I know the basics of how my body functions so I can tell if somethings wrong. And I know how to not repeat history.
Though the most important skill I learned was how to use a Computer. Even minimum wage jobs require a basic understanding of how to use a computer and now a days, most if not all job applications are digital, and nobody accepts hand written resumes.
I’ve always said that everything I’ve needed to know in life I learned by the 8th grade. Only people that get into specialty fields that need more education, need more than just 8th grade.
Keeping kids ignorant isn't good parenting. They should be encouraged to learn as much as possible, including practical skills and then also encouraged to think for themselves.
I saw an 8th grade test from the 1800s online. our education quality has declined.
No it hasn't.
How do they get around compulsory education laws that require students to be in school until the age of 16, and in some cases, 18, without the students and parents being charged with truancy, and children removed from the home and put in foster care for repeated violations?
they have religious exemptions.
The Supreme Court ruling mentioned in the video... Yoder vs Wisconsin.
Seems that "modern" educational system makes the Amish educational system antidepressant.
If your belief system begins to crumble when faced with knowledge, it's time to change your belief system.
Public schools are designed to provide the manual labor force: after covid struck they were upgraded to the title of essential workers, which the 1% needs to keep its stranglehold on the nation's economy.
The Amish have been “green” since way before the political term was created
so true! Many years ago , I read an article in a magazine about ways to recycle or go green (can't remember the specific term at the time)....some suggestions -- eat leftovers, shop thrift stores, use jelly jars for something else, etc. All things that the earlier generations have been doing for... generations! they were acting as if these were new things! The Bible tells us that there is nothing new under the sun.
Always great information from you👍 thanks Erik for sharing the Amish ways🙏🙏😊
Gladly thanks Kathleen!
Did you happen to see the video "Are the Amish green?" 🙂
@@AmishAmerica 😂 no.. they’re Amish!
We used to do that, trade schools were called Technical colleges. Now you do tha similar thing during your apprenticeship at a TAFE. Whose courses are designed in conjunction with industry.
And cost a lot of money to attend! It's a shame.
@@kimfleury Yeah, though in our State they’re going to make some courses free again, esp to do with apprenticeships and aged care. I understand they’re going to Chuck in a tool allowance for trade apprentices and cheap rego on their utes or something like that.
Not all education is found in schools.
They limit it because further education would cause mass exodus from their sect.
People need to stop pushing the stupid and wrong idea that higher education is necessary for happiness or for personal success. Not everyone wants to be a white collar worker. We need more blue collar workers. And blue collar work is great and important. As a black American woman, I wasted my money and I wasted my time getting a bachelors degree and a masters degree when I'm really not career oriented after all and now I have all of this student loan debt for nothing. I would've been just as well off with an associate's degree from my hometown community college and I could've gotten a great job with that. A career is not the important thing in my life. A career doesn't define me. It's really stupid to be so closed minded and to think that university degrees are the only pathway to success in life because they're not.
I saw a show about an Amish man who had taken his GED and did very well. He ended up leaving the church and went to college,
The Amish don’t limit “education” at 8th grade, they limit “schooling” at 8th grade so actual education can begin.
Great information, I think for their purposes maybe the limited education is really all they need. I don't know what's really the right thing or the wrong thing in this case, but I think everyone no matter their religion needs to make their own personal choices for themselves and their families. Growing up many of my generation had parents and grandparents who attended one room schoolhouses and many including both of my parents never went on to have a college education. Military occupied 20 years of my dads life and then he worked a blue-collar job in a factory, while my mom stayed home and raised the family and she only had an 8th grade education, not because of religion, it was just that her family needed some financial assistance, so the older kids dropped out of school and got jobs, it was indeed a different time. My mom out of necessity when she was in her 40's and my dad had passed away needed to get her GED so that she could get a job to support our household. Both of my parents did a great job without higher education, we always had a roof over our head, food on the table for all of our meals and clothing on our backs. In today's day and age, I sent my daughter to college, something I never did, and I'm proud to say if need be, could support her family. Thanks for sharing another awesome bit of information.
To know what’s right or wrong I would refer you to our constitution. Don’t violate those rights and you’re doing right.
Good comment and example, yes it's possible that too many people are going into higher education today because that is the overriding message we hear in the US at least, gotta go to college. Which can lead to unhappiness and lost potential when someone struggles to find work with a non-practical degree (not to mention the student debt).
Wouldn’t call it limited
Probably know more then public school 8th graders
this is like in the 19th century the rural farm folks had better math and literacy skills than the city folks. so its not just about how many grades but quality of education. it's like you going back in time and trying your hand in 18th century education you would find kids in tha time period would probably have better literacy, arithmetic, and reding skills than adults today....
While I can respect that they do not feel the need for higher education, I would argue that higher education is necessary for a society to advance. Not just scientifically, but also socially, higher education allows for abstractions about the nature of the world, than nature of humanity, the nature of God. It allows people to understand others without having ever met that person. This allows for conflict resolution and mixed ethnicity/religion communities which is a mainstay of a global culture. While the Amish society has little need of these things, and I can respect that, I do think the self-imposed intellectual and cultural isolation is counterproductive to long term survivability of their people.
I’m am unsure how I went down a rabbit hole of Amish community videos, but I would have to say that when I first heard that they only go up to 8th grade- I immediately turned my face up because “tHaT’s NoT rIgHt” but after watching this video I totally see their points which are valid as I reflect on the education I received past the 8the grade. Did they really add value or was I, like so many others, conditioned to believe that this is a must & there are no other options.
Now that I have a child, I am strongly considering homeschooling him because I want him to truly learn & explore & not be pent up in a classroom for 8+ hours.
Granted, there’s a lot of fluff out there, even in College...
But given today’s climate where I even am having problems, I can’t perceive not having the solid background of a full education. I am a Christian, too.
A rural agricultural or handiwork based lifestyle is very rewarding, so for most Amish it is probably not much of a conflict. I wouldn't want to have felt pressured as a child to avoid higher education, however, because it is the thing which I find most rewarding in my life.
I know in my community the Amish school places a heavy emphasis on basic math and critical reading. Their perspective is simply that math, beyond the need for construction/building and computing for business operations, is simply irrelevant to their needs.
Before the 50s you could go to college with an 8th grade education
Now so watered down 8th grade is more like old 6th grade
I am not Amish.
But I have interacted with a Amish community in Illinois back in the day.
They were allowed to have phones ( Black dial phones) Plus they had cars. ( Black cars)
I was trying to sell them a vacuum cleaner. They did have electricity.
I found them very pleasant and polite people.
I noted that they also used mechanical farm equipment.
But they all looked the part as Amish.
I was curious about their lifestyle so I asked many questions.
The interesting part for me. I was actually trying to sell them a vacuum cleaner.
And part of our offer was to shampoo a room of carpet for free.
They like free things so I had no problems making appointments.
And I noted that at each home. When I asked what type of Vacuum cleaner they had.
They would drag out a older Elecrolux canister vac.
I think I did like 4 shows.
No sale. But I figured man if I just get one. They will all buy like they did with the Canister vac.
Finally I get a young newly wed and his wife. "Omar" May be 20 years old.
I asked what type of Vacuum they had. Out pops a old Electrolux.
I get done with the show and ask if he liked the Kirby and if he might trade in the Electrolux.
He said yes may be. " blink blink.". Ohh kay
I gave him one heck of a cash deal. I made ZERO dollars. But I figured I would make it up selling to all his family trading in those electrolux's.
Ok so I get back to the office about 35 miles away. I have this big grin on my face. " GOT ONE!!!!"
I had the phone person call every Hostetler in the area and set me a slew of appointments for the next two weeks.
Thinking I am going to get them all.
Ok so the next Monday I get an appointment out there. I show up have a nice greet.
Got the Kirby all un packed and set up.
What kind of Vacuum do you have now? ( Expecting an old Electrolux canister)
" Oh we have a Kirby!!"
NOOOOO!!! It was the one I sold to Omar. They share everything. D'oh.....
Not only did I not make a dime on my Omar sale. But I spent two weeks shampooing carpets for free.
Lesson learned..
You know what happens when you Assume?
The one question I have - do the Amish use older textbooks? If so, they probably receive an firmer and better education than is generally the case in American public schools. Look at pdf's on 19th math books, and you can tell an education from these materials leaves the Amish person very well suited for their future needs.
Some use for example McGuffey's Readers (eg the very plain Swartzentruber schools)
@@AmishAmerica I thought so. You can go to the internet for pdf files of these materials. The math ones would be rather hard for today's public school student. No real amount of pretty pictures... So, the Amish are very likely to have a very solid education without needing to go further with it. I never found Amish to be 'simple minded' but a very firm study.
We need to overturn Wisconsin v. Yoder to force the Amish to learn trig.
I think many people equate American public 8th grade education with the Amish 8th grade education. These have VERY different content and focus. There is so much time wasted in public education, including the constant indoctrination on topics which have zero to do with reading, writing, and arithmetic. So those who look down on the Amish for this (and homeschooling too), you ought to familiarize yourself with the state of education in our country before jumping to conclusions.
I started habitually skipping school in 6th grade. I would always have some excuse but I found out what the assignments were and maintained nearly straight A's with less than an hour of work per day of school I missed. I found school to be a complete waste of time. 6-7 hours with 6-52 minute classes with each one spending time doing roll call and administrative functions and preparing for the end of class.
Going to school made me hate the concept of people and not only did it waste my day, I still had to spend the same amount of time at home doing school work because of homework assignments and class work not being able to be done in class because the teacher was busy sending John and Jane Doe to the principal.
In high school they had implemented a policy of 11 absences in any class per semester would fail the class. This was combined with the classes being longer but every other day. I maximized my tolerance by strategically getting 10 absences in every class without ever missing 2 classes in the same day and still graduated early. My counselor couldn't understand how I was never in school but I was passing a full schedule plus early bird plus credit for working a full time job plus I went so far as to take English classes via VHS correspondence to graduate early.
The school wasted my time and gave me a diploma unworthy of use as toilet paper.
I'm sure an Amish 8th grade education would be more effective than the public schools in urban cities in the US.
It sure sounds like you're implying that topics like "science" fall under the Indoctrination category. Is "RRR" the only goal of education?
I'm partial to Chemistry and Biology myself.
I feel sorry for you. You think the rest of us are “indoctrinated” while it is those who believe in the great “space ghost” who are truly indoctrinated.
There’s plenty to look down on the Amish for this isn’t one of them. Wearing Keds is definitely one of them. So it’s all the crimes they commit.
@@AmeriMutt76 And the thing with science, is there are some truly weird and wacky things about animals that you don't even learn about in grad school that should be taught as early as elementary school but aren't because, for instance, god forbid we realize that "queen" ants and bees don't actually rule and that bees besides the queen don't actually have one lot in life that they are stuck in until they die (their tasks are strictly age-based, to the point that they actually stop aging during the winter so they don't run out of any types of task-doers). But since these sorts of facts contradict hierarchical narratives, you don't even hear about them in undergrad.
That's a shame. Because material like this can be understood in a simple capacity by kids, yet you have to wait until grad school to hear it. With the only exception maybe being the debunking of the "alpha wolf" theory, but people don't even always hear about that - and some mistreat their dogs as a result. I ran across a guy who wouldn't even let his chihuahua stand up to demurely lick my hand while I petted her, no doubt to enforce the idea of him being the "alpha", which is not just BS in that case, but outright mean - a chihuahua is little and needs some room to stand to interact with you at all.
Mennonites also limit their education to eighth grade.
A friend of mine is Mennonite and their children also go into apprenticeship for a trade of their choosing.
that would be some Mennonite -- others do go to High School ...and others , college or tech
Yes, well the conservative branches. I met some Mennonites years ago who were as progressive as any other protestants on any no. of topics.
They mostly stop education at 8th grade because of tradition and so the child can go to work to help support the family. Back in the day many Amish families were very poor and benefited from the child going to work on the farm, in a shop or family business. Also, many Anish today are very well off as their communities have become large tourists' attractions and many of the Amish have restaurants, craft stores and furniture stores, etc.,
They object to continuing education BUT, I’ve seen plenty of them at non Amish hospitals and dental offices. 😮
I live in a big Amish community.
I used to work in a clinic in a large Amish area. The local Amish were definitely coming in.
Of course they seek medical care, as do I, even through I'm not trained to be a doctor 🙄
Education vs indoctrination.
Amish are right ✅️
Yea they indoctrinate
The real reason why Amish ordinarily allow education through the eighth grade is located in your second stated reason. The very crux of the matter lies in the fact that the Amish instinctively know that developing the power of critical thinking and analysis would be the rapid death of their way of life among their own children. To state the idea as regards all cults, whether they be religious or political or whatever, all special interest groups must enforce internal rules that DISCOURAGE the practice of closely examining the tenets of such groups in relation to other contemporary organizations in order to draw comparisons of how their teachings stack up to other such groups. Here is where the "rubber would hit the road" so to speak; such comparisons would require that one would very clearly spot the unhappy (or happy) results of the restrictive teachings and beliefs. To give a concrete example of what I am saying, observe that most fundamental churches absolutely forbid their members from examing the teachings of other contemporary churches while giving the reason that the church member would be "led astray or confused or damned or whatever" when the real reason is that the member might just actually be made aware of the shortcomings of their own present church body. In the last analysis, none of us can fully understand our own group beliefs until we have been allowed to study beliefs outside our own group leading to a comparison of the two systems.
Because educated people tend to question religious authority
But they don't question the Secular authority?!
They don't question THEIR presuppositions!
what is your point?
As a Christian, homeschooling family, I complete get this! We cater our high school education to the child... the length of time and the studies that are needed for that child to enter the profession they feel lead to, along with leaning heavy on history of the Jews and the church, values / character, the Bible, and debt free living.
But homeschooling goes much further than 8th grade. And a lot of homeschooled kids (Christian or not) do enter colleges and get professional positions. So this analogy is a little odd.
I feel like this traps people who want to leave. Yes in their soceity you only need 8 grades, but it's gonna be hard to find a place in soceity with only 8 grades.
I love how we're learning about the amash by breaking their rules
It certainly is useful to keep people from leaving the group and good for marginalizing women from equal opportunity.
Most Amish I know went past 7th grade.
Amish are generally nice, but not all nice.
I think part of the problem is conflating schooling and education. At first glance less than 12 years of formal compulsory schooling may seem odd, but is it really the case? English primary and secondary schools are 10 years, but a few years ago the law was amended to require 12 years of education, which may mean those who leave school at age 16 still have to obtain further education, such as an apprenticeship. Britain is not alone as 10 years compulsory schooling is common throughout Europe. Germany is 9 years typically, though it varies by state. Further, if a student is placed in a hauptschule or realschule many of the later years are spent learning a trade. Switzerland is also 9 years of compulsory schooling. Japan too. Singapore is 10 years.
Sounds like The Amish may be a very controlling society. I will stay my distance.
👍
As with all religious indoctrination, knowlege is to be feared. People who open their minds to the real world are a threat to the mythologies taught in religious institutions.
It would be interesting to test Amish in their early 20s on the basics. I suspect they would outperform most "ordinary" people.
Amish are RIGHT !! ✅️
No, they're not. This is the behavior of controlling, manipulative cults
@@JS-wp4gs Dept of Education is a cult
Wrong, not in today's complex world. 😕
@@vonfields6889 Are you saying they aren’t getting along exceptionally well?
I believe the Hutterites here in western Canada also only go to 8th grade.
They get the basics in grammar school, 1-8. I know many Amish who’ve gotten their GED or taken high school or college level courses for particular jobs and skills.
The Amish limit the education of their children to the 8th grade because that severely limits the Amish youths' opportunities outside of the Amish community. Something like 90% of children raised Old Order (the most strict) Amish "choose" to remain Amish as adults primarily because they have no other realistic choice. It's practically slavery by child abuse.
This should be against the law. All children should go to public schools and all schools should be equally funded. Where is our separation of church and state?
Well with the current SCOTUS line up you can expect even less separation between church and state
I think the main reason against higher education is that institutions of higher education lead the Amish youth away from the church.
I don’t necessarily agree. The young Amish are sent out into the world when they are of age to see if they like it or not. They have a choice. But, that choice has consequences, both pro and con.
@@marydooley4446 Young Amish are NOT sent out into the world! This is a very wrong perception of "runspringa" which is the result of "scripted reality" shows like "Amish in the City" and "Breaking Amish" that portray Amish youth in a way that is quite different from what most young Amish actually do and how they behave.
For many generations, Amish parents have experienced that forbidding many things does the opposite, so when young people reach age 16 and do things that the Amish order does not allow, Amish parents don't forbid that or turn a blind eye on that.
Almost all Amish parents prefer that their young people stay at home or near them and behave well and respect Amish rules.
I lived with the Amish and speak their language, Pennsylvania Dutch and German is my native language.
@@marydooley4446 You are absolutely wrong! Nobody among the Amish is sent out into the world!
You should read the books of scholars who are known for their expertise among other scholars as well as among the Amish themselves.
The most renowned of these are Donald B. Kraybill, Steven M. Nolt, Karen M. Johnson-Weiner and the deceased John A. Hostetler.
Forget all the garbage movies about the Amish like “Amish in the City”, “Breaking Amish” or “Amish Mafia” which have little to with reality.
I did not only read most of the literature of the above mentioned scholars, I also lived among different Amish groups and speak their language, Pennsylvania Dutch.
@@Tobitobiify I grew up around the Amish. Yes, they do give them a choice. They even have a name for it. I never said anything about being kicked out.
@@marydooley4446 Again: Nobody is sent out into the world or sent away in any way!
But Amish parents know that after a certain age - normally 16 years - they cannot hold back their young people when they do "rumshpringa" or when they want to leave.
Many young Amish never leave their home or their community, especially girls. The live with their parents until the leave home for marriage.
You should read Tom Shachtman's book "Rumspringa: To Be or Not to Be Amish" or Richard A. Stevick's "Growing up Amish: The Teenage Years".
The movie "Devil's Playground" of 2002 is also very close to what's acually happening, even though it shows rather extreme examples.
I know the Elkart-LaGrange and the Nappanee Amish settlements, the home of Faron Yoder and the other Amish kids of the movie.
I have worked with many Amish people. Underestimate their intelligence at your own peril. They are as sharp as any business graduate I can assure you.
Curious what the nails, labeled w/names, above the sink are for? I think education needs to get back to what is practical and needed for each person instead of everyone must go to college even if it doesn't make sense for them.
A higher education might cause more young amish to question their faith and practices as well. Let's not forget that.
Cant let them escape the cult.
They're probably more educated than most college students if the follow the path of our ancestors
What do they do with mentally handicapped kids, especially in the stricter communities? Do they send them to school at all? Will they ever send them to public school so they can get special services or therapy that the community can't provide, even in communities where they would normally never send other kids to public schools?
The Amish are right on so many levels.
Maybe their quality of education is better? Maybe the 8th grade is like America's 12th grade, where they can barely spell cat. LOL
i don't get why so many people on this comment section is bashing the amish way of life. like they do what they do. you don't hear about them having so many issues americans are facing... they're thriving. their birthrates are holding and they seem to be content with their lives... i mean what else could you ask for
@@joeswanson733 I'm sorry did it appear or sound to you that I was bashing the Amish people?
@@JH-kh9lf I meant other commenters
Well isn't that some shit! Here in Houston TX the grade average is less than 8th grade! At least among minorities.
Educated women wouldn't stick around to be gestation slaves
Are there any Amish doctors???
No. There are those who have left the community, however.
The Amish learn more up to the 8th then our kids learn through High School .
The world will always need tradesman. I’d like to see a software engineer build his own house.😂
That's not how it works. People are skilled for different jobs. We need skilled labor and we need software engineers just as we need doctors and dentists. I do agree that it is a pity that people look down on blue collar work. All jobs have a place in society
Sorry “math guy”… You’re right.