As a recently graduated Mechanical Engineer, I truly appreciate the quality and nature of your technical approach--your channel has been a huge help as I enter the world of MTB. If you have the time, I'd like to suggest an analysis of TREK's new IsoStrut suspension design (found on their Supercaliber models). It's simple, but a novel idea.
Oi JB, obrigado pelo comentário! A Pivot tem projetos maravilhosos, testamos em uma das edições da Interbike, a suspensão Switchblade é incrível, mesmo assim, tem muitos pivôs, 4 rolamentos só para a fixação inferior da balança. Nos meus estudos , vou considerar essa opção também. Abraços Edu Capivara
I love these videos man. I hope we'll one day see an analysis of the Mondraker Zero suspension. I've just ridden the Foxy Carbon 29 recently and it was amazing!
My first visit to your channel, really enjoyed the technical analysis with illustrations. New to full suspension bikes so it really helped me understand what you were explaining. Looking forward to checking out other videos on your channel.
Amazing analysis as always. I know you probably get a lot of suspension requests, but it would be really interesting to see the transition patrol review. for the 2020 model the company switched to a coil shock, and it would be fascinating to see an analysis that can either back up or dispute the decision of the switch.
I’ve always wanted to see a DW link analysis, great video!! A future video suggestion: comparison on the new and old specialized demo (Demo 8, the one with a bottom bracket concentric pivot) would be really interesting.
Why can’t more reviewers do reviews like this? Actually technical comparison which allows us to understand the process, with a reference to authentic experiences so that we can visualise what’s happening.
Love these analyses! How about a review of Spot Mayhem or Rollik? Would live to see what that carbon leaf spring is doing to progression during mid-stroke (assuming you can figure it out! It’s connected to the front triangle via an open pivot but bends as it is clamped into the rear triangle in the mid-stroke and “stores energy” for pedaling efficiency, I demoed one and it’s pretty sweet, Dusty Betty says it feels like an ebike (I think that’s a bit of a stretch!)
Love the channel, and love this type of videos because I am a bike enthusiast I would love to see three bikes from commençal if possible: the meta am, meta te and the clash
I’m so glad I come across your videos, as I am currently researching over 10 different bikes, trying to figure out which enduro bike will work best for me and has “the best” suspension as all claim to have. Very informative videos. Love them! Maybe a comparison of the canyon strive and torque?
Hey there🙋♂️ Very nice video again. Love the animations and effort you put into it. I would love to see the Liteville 301 because of the interesting and very new looking linkage design. greetings from Germany 😁
I'd love to see the comparison of suspension performance at different sag points. Take a given bike and show hows bad it sucks when the sag is set too high or too low.
Suspension response doesn't change. What does change is your exact anti-rise, squat, LR etc values at the new sag point. But it's be no different than if you just hit a drop and were lower in your travel.
@@TrailPOV perhaps we are in a game of semantics now? I get that the response is the same, but can you see no value in showing the diminished abilities of the bike if set too high or too low? I am sure there is some real value in that. I've ridden bikes set too high and too low, and it sucks! Just thought you'd be able to show that in numbers, and I personally would find it interesting.
I actually ended up looking into the suspension for a Patreon member. If you join one of the analysis Tiers I could provide it to you for 1/2 price #shamelessplug
@@TrailPOV despite the fact that I whould love to support ya on patreon, I dont even have a credit card yet (I should get one though) sheers anyway! Love your vids!
Love this video and channel! I own a switchblade v2 and absolutely love it. I have never had a go on a ripmo but after watching this, I really want to! Also, the intro/outro, where have I heard that? Reminds me of a biggie song but I am sure its not lol
First of all, I really love your videos. They're full of tech stuff and great analysis. Can you recommend any technical literature to increase knowledge? Thank's for the great work and all the input!
Thanks! I just kept reading every website I could find that discusses these things as well as a few patents. I also learned a lot from the motorbiking world which has a lot more literature on forces etc since they're so much higher on a bike (torque and braking)
I'm surprised you haven't done an analysis on any Commencal bikes. With that said, the new 2021 Commencal Meta AM is getting a lot of hype due to a change in frame design. If you get a chance, you should do a review of it. Thanks. Oh, I just subscribed too. Love your channel.
You should do the Eminent OnSet suspensión analysis, it has a floating rear shock and a floating break. It’s a mix between a mondraker and the legendary Yeti lawwill design
I have a 2018 fuel ex now, upgrading to Ripmo (waiting on frame). I think the fuel is a little bit different from some of the more recent recent linkage design reviews he has done. My impression is that it relies on suspension tune and fancy valving to provide support, which allows it to track the ground nicely on climbs ... but well, your relying on valves to provide pedaling support , and maybe it's not going to work equally well for every rider
Amazing Video!!! I was wondering if you have any sugesstions for good literature to write an scientific work about the physiks of the rear suspension of mountainbikes. Thanks
I would be curious what your research says about the Intense SNIPER T, Trek Top Fuel, and Pivot Trail 429 and Mach 4sl. Thank you for your information!
Nice videos!!! I really appreciate all the numbers and geometries explained, Would you mind making a comparison between the Santacruz V10 29 and the Megatower? Because they look fairly similar
I have been planning to get back into mountain biking for some fun at fitness, and your videos have been fascinating! The sport has come a long way since I shopped for a hard-tail as a kid... Wondering, have you done any "split-pivot" analysis? Being from MN, I'd love to see how the Salsa design compares to Trek's implementation. You could also throw the Orbea Occam in the mix, can't tell if there's any difference between these bikes!
@@TrailPOV Ah yes, I missed that when I watched it. Now I see the difference for the Pivot between those two gears. Quite a lot of change! It's almost all >100% A.S. in the middle gear range.
I love your vid its very informative i juts want to know what application you use on illustrating the linkage if you dont mind.. Im designing my own bike and i wanna know how the suspension would work because I cant really imagine if im not looking at an image. thank you
@@TrailPOV i would like to ask wich is much better bike for all around use The new pivot switchblade or the 2021 specialized stumpjumper evo. i would really love to hear your thoughts. thank you
Whew! I'm glad to see you're still with us, I noticed these excellent videos ceased right about the time we were hit with the Ch!nav!rus and I was afraid it had taken you with it. Are you still doing these videos only for patreon supporters, it would sure be interesting to see you compare the new SB 140 with the new ripmo, MTB yum yum Jason did that yesterday, but he keeps talking about the softer ride of the Ibis and I queried why he didn't try the ibis with a little more air pressure since he claimed it was both softer and less supportive than the yeti, though not by that much he said, and his response I thought was a bit evasive referring to how much travel is used on the blue trails, so I'm actually left with more questions than answers LOL, but I think those are the two real top of the heap bikes right now so if you're tempted to come out of hiding... 😉
Happy New Year. If I didn't have a lot of cash I'd buy a Giant, if I had unlimited cash I'd probably buy a high pivot by one of several manufacturers, if I were to buy an ebike I'd go with the Spec Kenevo. Totally depend on the style of riding and terrain you're riding as to what is a solid bike for you
Hi I had a Starling Swoop its a true single pivot bike (no linkage) similar to Orange bikes. I found that this bike became very firm under breaking (very high anti rise?) and made traction difficult as suspension felt stuck. Is this a characteristic of true single pivots (or linkage driven?) I never really read or hear about it. I'm trying to understand this feeling in relation to your vids thanks.
A single pivot (with a linkage driven shock or not) have typically higher anti-rise especially if the pivot is higher on the bike without an idler. With this high anti-rise the bike actually wants to squat in the rear under rear braking resulting in the firming up of the suspension as it gets deeper in it's travel.
Could you answer a question for me? A friend of mine and I are quite tall and heavy. We both have a similar observation: we don’t seem to like shocks that are mounted down low and mounted vertically. He ended up with a new Stumpjumper and I am considering a new Cannondale Habit. Both of these have shocks that are mounted higher on the frame and angled 45-65 degrees from vertical. I suspect it has to do with our center of mass when pedaling out of the saddle which Cannondale tried to account for. Could you explain in better detail?
Interesting observation. It likely has to do with the leverage ratio that can be created by mounting up top compared to vertically, or that the IC is moved so anti-squat and anti-rise numbers change. The center of mass difference imo is negligible as the shock and pivots don't weigh a huge amount.
Thanks! Do you have an opinion on the new Cannondale Habit’s suspension and it’s attempts to compensate for smaller and larger riders through small changes in suspension design?
Trail POV ... trying to understand what would make the Ibis Ripmo a “better” climber in all the reviews when compared to the Evil Offering, if the Evil has higher anti squat values?
@@kurtmaier6502 Looking at the anti-squat and leverage curves, these bikes would feel extremely similar when climbing and even overall. The only thing that would differ somewhat is that the brake on the Ripmo is decoupled from interacting directly with the suspension as it's part of the suspended 4 bar linkage so descending will be a bit more plush.
Interesting video! I was riding a V1 Ripley for almost 5 years before switching to a V1 Ripmo. I been riding the Ripmo for just over a year now. Overall, I'm very happy with the RIpmo, to me it has similar characteristics to the Ripley ( nimble and responsive) but I get that increased stability which is gold. Sometimes, I miss the liveliness and a bit more sporty feel of the RIpley but if I got the current model I would sacrifice some stability. I've heard that the stability on the Trail 429 is better than the current model Carbon Ripley (V4)? Maybe that would be a good compromise for me? Or I should stop thinking about this nonsense and just ride the Ripmo!...LOL. It's a super balanced bike! Thanks.
I don't think I can single out one bike for everyone. Some like efficient, some like squishy, some like poppy. I really like what Revel are doing with their bikes.
Another great analysis. I'm trying to understand how the relatively higher and linearly progressive leverage ratio of the Switchblade may lead to less midtravel support compared to the Ripmo. Is the idea that the Ripmo's lower overall ratio and regressive curve (did I get that right?) means there will be more "resistance" from the shock earlier in its stroke comparatively to the Switchblade? If so, it's interesting you mention that a reduction to air pressure may be required to use more of the Switchblade's travel, but could the opposite be true if you wanted to increase mid-travel support? Just caught my attention as I know Cascade Components typically aim to increase the leverage ratio with their links, and recommend increasing shock pressures to get greater mid-travel support as the increased leverage ratio provides the additional small bump compliance at the beginning of the stroke. Would love to get your thoughts.
Thanks. My thought with mid travel is this: If you increase the pressure of the Switchblade to increase mid travel support, the shock will become very firm at the end and you may not be able to use full travel because of it's progressive end. The Ibis has less ramp up at the end so running higher pressures still allows usage of full travel.
@@TrailPOV Unfortunately, I think something may be up with the Ripmo curve you have here. It's 147 mm of travel, divided by a 55 mm shock stroke, which yields an average leverage ratio of 2.67:1. The one curve I've seen before the one in your video shows that the Ripmo curve doesn't go any lower than around 2.52:1. This makes sense because with an average ratio of 2.67:1 and a lack of strong progressivity at the end of travel, it is highly unlikely that the Ripmo leverage curve would ever dip to 2.3:1, as your curve shows it doing. On the other hand, the Switchblade has 142 mm of travel with a 55 mm shock stroke, for an average ratio of 2.58:1. I think the Switchblade does have a higher starting leverage ratio and a more progressive overall curve, but the Ripmo curve doesn't dip below 2.5:1, and your curve shows it dip below 2.5:1 before the sag point. I think that a heavier rider should go with the Switchblade, as not only does it have the lower average ratio, but it is far more progressive.
Would love for some clarity on Skeptastic's comments Trail POV. I'm a heavier rider (225lbs) and am strongly considering because of this. I've read lighter riders had issues with the tune.
23vicjoe I have heard from a Pivot employee that the bike is shipped with a .6 volume spacer and should be changed to a .4 for lighter rider or more linear feel. Apparently it’s a noticeable difference
I love this comparison analysis, but I think there is something wrong with the leverage curve you are showing. It doesn't match the one you showed for the Ripmo V2 in your DW-Link Ripmo comparison video. The curve you show here looks more like the V1 curve. You may want to double check and revise as necessary.
Good catch and somewhat important catch. Something must have gone wrong with the export from Illustrator to After Effects. The Ripmo curve shown in this video is the correct shape for the V2, but it should be squashed to have a range between 3.1 and 2.6. Sorry for the confusion.
@@TrailPOV Thanks for the clarification. Does that change your conclusion at all? Flattening the Ripmo V2 leverage curve would seem to make the progression up to sag very similar to the Switchblade, but the Ripmo then becomes more linear much earlier than what's depicted.
@@richchin5163 Nope doesn't change the conclusions as the LR of the Switchblade is still much more progressive and you still get better mid travel support with the Ripmo without having a harsh ramp-up if you increase the pressure.
This video is proof numbers dont mean everything and in this case, almost nothing. I own a switchblade. The bike doesn't have a magic anti bob characteristic. In open, you sit into the travel more and the seat sits back and it does Bob. I have compression tuned to match feel of fork in this mode. Its awesome for bombing rough technical but there's such a hard ramp up at the end that you can't use it for jumping unless you add more compression. Its such a hard ramp up that at the end, the backend of the bike will push itself out from underneath you. The middle switch is my normal. Seat doesn't sag as much but remains moving as suspension does so you can really sit down and pedal over rough stuff without getting hammer by your seat. It does still bob slightly but where this bike is awesome is how it pushes you up and over technical climbing sections
I loved the Ripmo, especially for its cheaper and more affordable entry price. But ultimately I couldn’t stomach the design that resembled a bloated bagpipe, and hence me pulling the trigger on a switchblade moments ago.
The ultimate overrated bike Co.. The carbon version came out about 10 years after the bike it copied the hell out of, the Ibis Mojo then the Ripmo. This bike just a Ripmo copy unnecessarily stiff version. they usually are 3/4+ heavier yet as expensive or more expensive than Ibis. You can't sell them cheap as you bought off the Mt Bike action for a decade to insure their off the charts fake news overly super awesome reviews and to be featured as the test bike for every aftermarket test MBA did for 15 year! LOL.
@@TrailPOV Just that Ibis was practically censored by the bike mags because the didn't advertise in them, and the ones that did the most a decade later were nauseatingly plugging Coby looking copy as the 2nd coming of Mt bike technology.
@markr5132 - Hey Mark, I know it's been a few years since you posted here, but I'm wondering if you happen to be the same Mark that used to ride with the group back in the early to mid-'90s when Scot Nicol, Major Tom, Snap and I used to ride the Occidental - Coleman Valley road - Freestone loop? . I remember there was a Mark in that group that was the first one I ever heard call it "Mountain Bike *_Fiction"_* and I recalled I chuckled at that - but he used to get so upset by what he called junk bike advertising. I just wondered if you're that Mark?
@@JAFO. No sorry not the same guy but he sounds like he has a lot we would agree on. Like Mountain Bike action used to always say the Specialized or other bike is perfect just needs the bars cut 1.5 inches for decades until a few months go by and riser bars can in saying great bike but bars are too narrow even though they grew 20+ mm every years, they had to keep getting wider...
Well I wholeheartedly agree with that, I'm still writing my 21-in Bontrager tie bars on the old mb1 and absolutely love it but then again I'm not a speed demon, I think a lot of these guys should just go out and buy motorcycles LOL for me it's like backpacking or hiking with wheels - I'd like to take trails I have never been on before and use the bike like a little mini 4-wheel drive to get me in places I haven't yet seen so I can soak in the beauty of God's backyard like they said in that song some 50 plus years ago, you can't see a flower at 50 miles an hour! 👊🤠
As a recently graduated Mechanical Engineer, I truly appreciate the quality and nature of your technical approach--your channel has been a huge help as I enter the world of MTB.
If you have the time, I'd like to suggest an analysis of TREK's new IsoStrut suspension design (found on their Supercaliber models). It's simple, but a novel idea.
Congrats on graduating! and thanks for the suggestion on bike to look at.
Nice
this is gold!! love the channel
Thanks very much!
The most satisfying mountain bike videos on TH-cam
Haha. Thanks!
Would love to see a comparison (or your opinion) on the DW-LINK vs. Switch Infinity. The extreme anti-rise of the Yeti is interesting.
You could just watched the two videos and compare the pros and cons
Oi JB, obrigado pelo comentário!
A Pivot tem projetos maravilhosos, testamos em uma das edições da Interbike, a suspensão Switchblade é incrível, mesmo assim, tem muitos pivôs, 4 rolamentos só para a fixação inferior da balança.
Nos meus estudos , vou considerar essa opção também.
Abraços
Edu Capivara
AWESOME video! Subscribed. This video once again proves why the Ripmo V1 is still the GREATEST TRAIL BIKE OF ALL TIME. -- posted this on March 2022 --
Thanks for the sub!
I love these videos man. I hope we'll one day see an analysis of the Mondraker Zero suspension. I've just ridden the Foxy Carbon 29 recently and it was amazing!
Thanks for the suggestion
What a great review of the biomechanics of suspension travel.
Thank you!
Thanks for the Awesome explanation noting the differences between these two bikes.
You're welcome! Hope it helps with your decision.
My first visit to your channel, really enjoyed the technical analysis with illustrations. New to full suspension bikes so it really helped me understand what you were explaining. Looking forward to checking out other videos on your channel.
Glad you like them!
I'd like to see the Ripmo or Pivot Firebird vs the Evil Offering V2. Both Dave Weagle suspension designs.
Amazing analysis as always. I know you probably get a lot of suspension requests, but it would be really interesting to see the transition patrol review. for the 2020 model the company switched to a coil shock, and it would be fascinating to see an analysis that can either back up or dispute the decision of the switch.
That is interesting. Thanks for the heads up.
I’ve always wanted to see a DW link analysis, great video!! A future video suggestion: comparison on the new and old specialized demo (Demo 8, the one with a bottom bracket concentric pivot) would be really interesting.
Thanks for the suggestion and glad you liked the vid
Yay he’s back! I was hoping you’d post again soon!
Ya sorry for the delay. It's been a hectic several months!
Trail POV I feel ya. This month has been the craziest for me too.
Why can’t more reviewers do reviews like this? Actually technical comparison which allows us to understand the process, with a reference to authentic experiences so that we can visualise what’s happening.
Glad you like them! Happy soon-to-be New Year!
Your videos have led me to really want a Druid haha, seems like there’s very little compromise with the high pivot design.
Agreed!
Love these analyses! How about a review of Spot Mayhem or Rollik? Would live to see what that carbon leaf spring is doing to progression during mid-stroke (assuming you can figure it out! It’s connected to the front triangle via an open pivot but bends as it is clamped into the rear triangle in the mid-stroke and “stores energy” for pedaling efficiency, I demoed one and it’s pretty sweet, Dusty Betty says it feels like an ebike (I think that’s a bit of a stretch!)
Thanks! I ended up analyzing the Rollik for a Patreon member and while it looks like a Ripmo the leverage curve is definitely quite different.
Love the channel, and love this type of videos because I am a bike enthusiast
I would love to see three bikes from commençal if possible: the meta am, meta te and the clash
Glad to hear! and thanks for the suggestions.
I’m so glad I come across your videos, as I am currently researching over 10 different bikes, trying to figure out which enduro bike will work best for me and has “the best” suspension as all claim to have. Very informative videos. Love them! Maybe a comparison of the canyon strive and torque?
That's a lot of bikes to choose from....glad I could be of some help. The Canyon is on my radar :)
Love your work. Keep it coming man.
Thanks very much!
would be really interested of seeing mondraker foxy 29 analysis. Anyways thanks for the awesome content!
Glad you like it and thanks for the suggestion
Hey there🙋♂️
Very nice video again. Love the animations and effort you put into it.
I would love to see the Liteville 301 because of the interesting and very new looking linkage design.
greetings from Germany 😁
Thanks very much. Never even heard of that bike. Thanks for the suggestion.
This was fantastically done!
Thanks!
I'd love to see the comparison of suspension performance at different sag points. Take a given bike and show hows bad it sucks when the sag is set too high or too low.
Suspension response doesn't change. What does change is your exact anti-rise, squat, LR etc values at the new sag point. But it's be no different than if you just hit a drop and were lower in your travel.
@@TrailPOV perhaps we are in a game of semantics now? I get that the response is the same, but can you see no value in showing the diminished abilities of the bike if set too high or too low? I am sure there is some real value in that. I've ridden bikes set too high and too low, and it sucks! Just thought you'd be able to show that in numbers, and I personally would find it interesting.
Great suspension videos! Would love to see one on the Pivot Firebird 29.
Thanks!
Tou should explain the suspension workings of the Orion system! It's made by Dave Weagle and it's currently on Esker bikes.
I actually ended up looking into the suspension for a Patreon member. If you join one of the analysis Tiers I could provide it to you for 1/2 price #shamelessplug
@@TrailPOV despite the fact that I whould love to support ya on patreon, I dont even have a credit card yet (I should get one though) sheers anyway! Love your vids!
@@fonzo9405 Fair point.
What about comparing a oldschool linkage to a newschool one
Would love to see a Devinci and Trek comparison! Love this stuff!
Both of those are on the radar
super interesting video thanks so much! makes me question if i want to try the cascade link i have !
Glad you liked it!
Your channel is awesome dude
Glad you think so!
Love this video and channel! I own a switchblade v2 and absolutely love it. I have never had a go on a ripmo but after watching this, I really want to! Also, the intro/outro, where have I heard that? Reminds me of a biggie song but I am sure its not lol
Thanks! Not sure where you would have heard the song before
I think this could be the best bike linkage I have ever seen. If I don't count the high pivot linkages.
First of all, I really love your videos. They're full of tech stuff and great analysis. Can you recommend any technical literature to increase knowledge? Thank's for the great work and all the input!
Thanks! I just kept reading every website I could find that discusses these things as well as a few patents. I also learned a lot from the motorbiking world which has a lot more literature on forces etc since they're so much higher on a bike (torque and braking)
I'm surprised you haven't done an analysis on any Commencal bikes. With that said, the new 2021 Commencal Meta AM is getting a lot of hype due to a change in frame design. If you get a chance, you should do a review of it. Thanks. Oh, I just subscribed too. Love your channel.
Thanks for the heads up about the new frame design, and for subscribing :)
Great channel! Subbed for the Guerrilla Gravity Gnarvana.....
Thanks. Glad to have you join the channel
You should do the Eminent OnSet suspensión analysis, it has a floating rear shock and a floating break. It’s a mix between a mondraker and the legendary Yeti lawwill design
Great suggestion!
Could we get a comparison of the old Trek Fuel Ex and the new Trek Fuel Ex? Thanks, love the channel :)
I have a 2018 fuel ex now, upgrading to Ripmo (waiting on frame). I think the fuel is a little bit different from some of the more recent recent linkage design reviews he has done. My impression is that it relies on suspension tune and fancy valving to provide support, which allows it to track the ground nicely on climbs ... but well, your relying on valves to provide pedaling support , and maybe it's not going to work equally well for every rider
Thanks for the suggestion!
Amazing Video!!! I was wondering if you have any sugesstions for good literature to write an scientific work about the physiks of the rear suspension of mountainbikes. Thanks
Nothing specific. Just googling around, watching tons of videos on suspension designs and prior engineering background
Always awesome @trail pov!
Thanks very much!
Great analysis! Sub'd & excited to watch more!
Great!
Would be nice to see your opinion on the Esker Elkat. It has an Orion suspension wich is designed by Dave too.
Ended up analyzing that for a Patreon member a few weeks ago. Definately a bit of a departure from the Ibis and Pivot
Nice videos! I’m really curious of Commencal Clash 2020 suspension review!
Thanks!
I would be curious what your research says about the Intense SNIPER T, Trek Top Fuel, and Pivot Trail 429 and Mach 4sl. Thank you for your information!
Thanks for the many suggestions!
Great review!
Thanks!
Nice videos!!! I really appreciate all the numbers and geometries explained, Would you mind making a comparison between the Santacruz V10 29 and the Megatower? Because they look fairly similar
Thanks for the compliment and suggestion
Could you please do a review on the Esker Rowl
Thanks for the suggestion. I have a review of the Esker Elkat at www.patreon.com/posts/44703620 if you're interested #shamelessplug
Transition sentiment would be great! Curious about running a coil. Thx!
I'm presuming you meant Sentinel :)
@@TrailPOV haha yes although that would be a cool name
I like seeing the comparisons to other bikes, i know you've done the forbidden druid but how about a comparison against the deviate highlander?
Good suggestion. Thanks.
I have been planning to get back into mountain biking for some fun at fitness, and your videos have been fascinating! The sport has come a long way since I shopped for a hard-tail as a kid...
Wondering, have you done any "split-pivot" analysis? Being from MN, I'd love to see how the Salsa design compares to Trek's implementation. You could also throw the Orbea Occam in the mix, can't tell if there's any difference between these bikes!
Glad you're liking the vids and thanks for the analysis suggestion.
Good and condensed information. What gears were used to produce those anti-squat values? Does it change depending on bigger/smaller cog in the back?
Thanks. On the graphs it mentioned the 32-25 or 32-50 gears used for the calculation.
@@TrailPOV Ah yes, I missed that when I watched it. Now I see the difference for the Pivot between those two gears. Quite a lot of change! It's almost all >100% A.S. in the middle gear range.
I love your vid its very informative i juts want to know what application you use on illustrating the linkage if you dont mind.. Im designing my own bike and i wanna know how the suspension would work because I cant really imagine if im not looking at an image. thank you
Thanks. For the animation I use After Effects, but for the raw analysis of pivot locations etc I used a CAD program called librecad.
@@TrailPOV thank you so much.
@@TrailPOV i would like to add last question. is the after effects plug in name. Duik?
@@yu-i7476 Don't use any plugins, just adjustment layers
@@TrailPOV i would like to ask wich is much better bike for all around use The new pivot switchblade or the 2021 specialized stumpjumper evo. i would really love to hear your thoughts. thank you
Why did you stop making these excellent videos? Can you review the digit datum?
I've never heard of digit.
Whew! I'm glad to see you're still with us, I noticed these excellent videos ceased right about the time we were hit with the Ch!nav!rus and I was afraid it had taken you with it. Are you still doing these videos only for patreon supporters, it would sure be interesting to see you compare the new SB 140 with the new ripmo, MTB yum yum Jason did that yesterday, but he keeps talking about the softer ride of the Ibis and I queried why he didn't try the ibis with a little more air pressure since he claimed it was both softer and less supportive than the yeti, though not by that much he said, and his response I thought was a bit evasive referring to how much travel is used on the blue trails, so I'm actually left with more questions than answers LOL, but I think those are the two real top of the heap bikes right now so if you're tempted to come out of hiding... 😉
Any way to get a long low slack comparison between the Nicolai Geometron, Pole Evolink and Mondraker Foxy?
Good suggestion. Thx.
Curious which MTbike you'd purchase if you were in the market today?
Happy New Year. If I didn't have a lot of cash I'd buy a Giant, if I had unlimited cash I'd probably buy a high pivot by one of several manufacturers, if I were to buy an ebike I'd go with the Spec Kenevo. Totally depend on the style of riding and terrain you're riding as to what is a solid bike for you
Hi I had a Starling Swoop its a true single pivot bike (no linkage) similar to Orange bikes. I found that this bike became very firm under breaking (very high anti rise?) and made traction difficult as suspension felt stuck.
Is this a characteristic of true single pivots (or linkage driven?) I never really read or hear about it.
I'm trying to understand this feeling in relation to your vids thanks.
A single pivot (with a linkage driven shock or not) have typically higher anti-rise especially if the pivot is higher on the bike without an idler. With this high anti-rise the bike actually wants to squat in the rear under rear braking resulting in the firming up of the suspension as it gets deeper in it's travel.
Could you answer a question for me? A friend of mine and I are quite tall and heavy. We both have a similar observation: we don’t seem to like shocks that are mounted down low and mounted vertically. He ended up with a new Stumpjumper and I am considering a new Cannondale Habit. Both of these have shocks that are mounted higher on the frame and angled 45-65 degrees from vertical. I suspect it has to do with our center of mass when pedaling out of the saddle which Cannondale tried to account for. Could you explain in better detail?
Interesting observation. It likely has to do with the leverage ratio that can be created by mounting up top compared to vertically, or that the IC is moved so anti-squat and anti-rise numbers change. The center of mass difference imo is negligible as the shock and pivots don't weigh a huge amount.
Thanks! Do you have an opinion on the new Cannondale Habit’s suspension and it’s attempts to compensate for smaller and larger riders through small changes in suspension design?
Can you do treks suspension design? I think they get a lot of shit sometimes but nothing to back it up so It would be interesting
Thanks for the suggestion!
What are your thoughts adding in the Evil Offering to this comparison?
I have taken a look at the evil offering in a previous video of mine
Trail POV ... trying to understand what would make the Ibis Ripmo a “better” climber in all the reviews when compared to the Evil Offering, if the Evil has higher anti squat values?
@@kurtmaier6502 Looking at the anti-squat and leverage curves, these bikes would feel extremely similar when climbing and even overall. The only thing that would differ somewhat is that the brake on the Ripmo is decoupled from interacting directly with the suspension as it's part of the suspended 4 bar linkage so descending will be a bit more plush.
please do the new meta AM 29. 2021. maybe even 2020 vs 2021?
Good suggestion. Thx.
Interesting video!
I was riding a V1 Ripley for almost 5 years before switching to a V1 Ripmo. I been riding the Ripmo for just over a year now. Overall, I'm very happy with the RIpmo, to me it has similar characteristics to the Ripley ( nimble and responsive) but I get that increased stability which is gold.
Sometimes, I miss the liveliness and a bit more sporty feel of the RIpley but if I got the current model I would sacrifice some stability.
I've heard that the stability on the Trail 429 is better than the current model Carbon Ripley (V4)? Maybe that would be a good compromise for me?
Or I should stop thinking about this nonsense and just ride the Ripmo!...LOL. It's a super balanced bike!
Thanks.
Just get out there any enjoy the trail with an awesome bike you've got 🤘
I'm curious what you're using to calculate the different metrics for these frames? Do you have a software that does all that for you?
I used a CAD software and a custom Excel spreadsheet
How important is the shock in suspension performance vs design and implementation? Is 50%, 20%, 10%.
For a well tuned shock I'd say 20% - eg comparing two well tuned shocks you're not going to notice a massive difference
What do you think about the new v3 Pivot Switchblade Mach sl?
I've likely reviewed it over on Patreon #shamelessplug
I'm curious, Mr. POV, after all your research, which rear sus design would be your most probable choice for coastal mountain trail fun?
I don't think I can single out one bike for everyone. Some like efficient, some like squishy, some like poppy. I really like what Revel are doing with their bikes.
Another great analysis. I'm trying to understand how the relatively higher and linearly progressive leverage ratio of the Switchblade may lead to less midtravel support compared to the Ripmo. Is the idea that the Ripmo's lower overall ratio and regressive curve (did I get that right?) means there will be more "resistance" from the shock earlier in its stroke comparatively to the Switchblade? If so, it's interesting you mention that a reduction to air pressure may be required to use more of the Switchblade's travel, but could the opposite be true if you wanted to increase mid-travel support? Just caught my attention as I know Cascade Components typically aim to increase the leverage ratio with their links, and recommend increasing shock pressures to get greater mid-travel support as the increased leverage ratio provides the additional small bump compliance at the beginning of the stroke. Would love to get your thoughts.
Thanks. My thought with mid travel is this: If you increase the pressure of the Switchblade to increase mid travel support, the shock will become very firm at the end and you may not be able to use full travel because of it's progressive end. The Ibis has less ramp up at the end so running higher pressures still allows usage of full travel.
@@TrailPOV Gotcha. Thanks for the reply!
Coil
I guess it depends on what Pivot got the DPX2 to be. It could have a larger air chamber than stock config and be more linear.
Very Informative Chanel!
Glad you think so!
I wonder how this compares to the Transition Sentinel
Thanks for the suggestion
Hi mate have you done giddy up link from transition?
I haven't as of yet. thanks for the suggestion
Would love to see a Firebird 29 video!
Thanks for the suggestion
could you do the same for mondraker dune?
More suspension analysis pleaze...
Another one is in the works, but they take time
Wow thank YOUUU!
Glad to provide some insight
Nice upload
Thanks!
Please do the Mondraker Foxy 29
Thanks for the suggestion
Do you think one or the other might have an edge for heavier riders? More progresivitity is useful but so is lower leverage ratio...
I'd probably go with the Ripmo due to its lower leverage ratio overall. You could always add value spacers to increase progressity in the end stroke
@@TrailPOV Good to hear, that's the one I have on order 😂
@@TrailPOV Unfortunately, I think something may be up with the Ripmo curve you have here. It's 147 mm of travel, divided by a 55 mm shock stroke, which yields an average leverage ratio of 2.67:1. The one curve I've seen before the one in your video shows that the Ripmo curve doesn't go any lower than around 2.52:1. This makes sense because with an average ratio of 2.67:1 and a lack of strong progressivity at the end of travel, it is highly unlikely that the Ripmo leverage curve would ever dip to 2.3:1, as your curve shows it doing. On the other hand, the Switchblade has 142 mm of travel with a 55 mm shock stroke, for an average ratio of 2.58:1.
I think the Switchblade does have a higher starting leverage ratio and a more progressive overall curve, but the Ripmo curve doesn't dip below 2.5:1, and your curve shows it dip below 2.5:1 before the sag point.
I think that a heavier rider should go with the Switchblade, as not only does it have the lower average ratio, but it is far more progressive.
Would love for some clarity on Skeptastic's comments Trail POV. I'm a heavier rider (225lbs) and am strongly considering because of this. I've read lighter riders had issues with the tune.
23vicjoe I have heard from a Pivot employee that the bike is shipped with a .6 volume spacer and should be changed to a .4 for lighter rider or more linear feel. Apparently it’s a noticeable difference
How about NAILD.IT's R3ACT vs SWITCH INFINITY, sir? Thanks!
Thanks for the suggestion
Level link please
The new vs old Commencal Meta?
Thanks for the suggestion
I love this comparison analysis, but I think there is something wrong with the leverage curve you are showing. It doesn't match the one you showed for the Ripmo V2 in your DW-Link Ripmo comparison video. The curve you show here looks more like the V1 curve. You may want to double check and revise as necessary.
Good catch and somewhat important catch. Something must have gone wrong with the export from Illustrator to After Effects. The Ripmo curve shown in this video is the correct shape for the V2, but it should be squashed to have a range between 3.1 and 2.6. Sorry for the confusion.
@@TrailPOV Thanks for the clarification. Does that change your conclusion at all? Flattening the Ripmo V2 leverage curve would seem to make the progression up to sag very similar to the Switchblade, but the Ripmo then becomes more linear much earlier than what's depicted.
@@richchin5163 Nope doesn't change the conclusions as the LR of the Switchblade is still much more progressive and you still get better mid travel support with the Ripmo without having a harsh ramp-up if you increase the pressure.
Cool !! keep doing
Thanks!
Does this bike come with a seat?
Nope :P
Definitely reinforces my decision for the ripmo2 as my next buy.
It does look awesome
Ibis all the way!
All depends what you're looking for
Pivot is one of the best BIKES on the market
It is very nice!
Ripmo Superior Race💪😎
Haha
Ripmo is more bang for the buck. Like 2k less for same specs.
Jamis 3VO!!!
This video is proof numbers dont mean everything and in this case, almost nothing. I own a switchblade. The bike doesn't have a magic anti bob characteristic. In open, you sit into the travel more and the seat sits back and it does Bob. I have compression tuned to match feel of fork in this mode. Its awesome for bombing rough technical but there's such a hard ramp up at the end that you can't use it for jumping unless you add more compression. Its such a hard ramp up that at the end, the backend of the bike will push itself out from underneath you. The middle switch is my normal. Seat doesn't sag as much but remains moving as suspension does so you can really sit down and pedal over rough stuff without getting hammer by your seat. It does still bob slightly but where this bike is awesome is how it pushes you up and over technical climbing sections
Good to know. Thanks for the input.
I'd go with the one I can more easily afford, *_IBIS_*
I'm guessing you're not a dentist :)
I loved the Ripmo, especially for its cheaper and more affordable entry price.
But ultimately I couldn’t stomach the design that resembled a bloated bagpipe, and hence me pulling the trigger on a switchblade moments ago.
Hehe. Enjoy the new bike!
All theory
That's the point of this channel -- raw numbers
I prefer being able to afford a bike.
Fair point. Everyone has their budget.
The ultimate overrated bike Co.. The carbon version came out about 10 years after the bike it copied the hell out of, the Ibis Mojo then the Ripmo. This bike just a Ripmo copy unnecessarily stiff version. they usually are 3/4+ heavier yet as expensive or more expensive than Ibis. You can't sell them cheap as you bought off the Mt Bike action for a decade to insure their off the charts fake news overly super awesome reviews and to be featured as the test bike for every aftermarket test MBA did for 15 year! LOL.
If it gets someone on a bike riding the trails I'm all for it despite your comments :)
@@TrailPOV Just that Ibis was practically censored by the bike mags because the didn't advertise in them, and the ones that did the most a decade later were nauseatingly plugging Coby looking copy as the 2nd coming of Mt bike technology.
@markr5132 - Hey Mark, I know it's been a few years since you posted here, but I'm wondering if you happen to be the same Mark that used to ride with the group back in the early to mid-'90s when Scot Nicol, Major Tom, Snap and I used to ride the Occidental - Coleman Valley road - Freestone loop?
.
I remember there was a Mark in that group that was the first one I ever heard call it "Mountain Bike *_Fiction"_* and I recalled I chuckled at that - but he used to get so upset by what he called junk bike advertising.
I just wondered if you're that Mark?
@@JAFO. No sorry not the same guy but he sounds like he has a lot we would agree on. Like Mountain Bike action used to always say the Specialized or other bike is perfect just needs the bars cut 1.5 inches for decades until a few months go by and riser bars can in saying great bike but bars are too narrow even though they grew 20+ mm every years, they had to keep getting wider...
Well I wholeheartedly agree with that, I'm still writing my 21-in Bontrager tie bars on the old mb1 and absolutely love it but then again I'm not a speed demon, I think a lot of these guys should just go out and buy motorcycles LOL for me it's like backpacking or hiking with wheels - I'd like to take trails I have never been on before and use the bike like a little mini 4-wheel drive to get me in places I haven't yet seen so I can soak in the beauty of God's backyard like they said in that song some 50 plus years ago, you can't see a flower at 50 miles an hour!
👊🤠