@@DungeonDudes hate some of the spell limitations like counter spell going to have to do alot of house rules which sucks example, force cage also the 1 spell per turn or round don't exactly remember yea house ruling that out and also can you go over ranger cause when I went over it, it sucks
@@arcturuslight_ I mean the only one you can't restack is temp hp, if you use aid and the old heros feast (idk if the new one still does it) to increase your max hp you can stack them both
@@zander6341 Not exactly. If you're playing with 2024 rules and something is in the 2024 PHB, including spell lists, you have to use that version. Of course, this is just based on what the book says. No one is gonna stop you if you decide to revert some changes.
@@zander6341 let's be clear THE GM, not you, gets to decide. For people like me who are limited to AL tables that means that I am stuck with all the interesting spells now just being "I cast Temp HP at 9th lvl," as for counterspell it was situational in 2014 but everyone took it for that one time to use it. now it is not worth considering. MoM shows that the stat blocks will no longer be casters but will have features that suspiciously look like copy/paste of spells. there should have been no change to counterspell but people meta gamed the ability too much. if you did a base counter and rolled for everything over the lvl it is more fun anyway.
@@daanopdebeeck2312 they probably did it because it was objectively the best option from power level stand point for any build so now you have more good options because the best one is now out
I absolutely don't think wizards would be broken by having one spell of each level from level 1 to 5 always prepared, as long as ot was from an specific school. Actually, I would live to see spell schools NOT be the wizards subclasses, but instead be a feature you choose at first level just to get extra prepared spells, and then their subclasses being more like the war wizard or the blade singer.
@@arcturuslight_ If you were converting a 2014 necromancer to 2024 where necromancer was a package you chose separately from your subclass, then you'd get to/have to choose a whole new subclass, which could result in a wildly different character. Maybe in practice it wouldn't be too bad (depends on all of the details) but that seems like a bigger change to the base class than what they have otherwise done with the updates.
@@EvilGeniusPrimeif it was a completely separate wizard feature that only gives them extra spells prepared, I fail to see how that would mess up backwards compatibility whatsoever. In the example you gave, you can still just use the necromancer and all that is different is you'll have more necromancy spells prepared.
I just realized, with the new wording for Heroic Inspiration, you can use it to reroll your portent rolls. So when you do your daily portent rolls, if you get something middling like a 12, you can reroll it to hopefully get something closer to 1 or 20
Still would happily play a Divination wizard again, but yes wish there was a little something something to make wizards different. The adjusting spells in the first UAs for ONE D&D were really interesting. Maybe if there's a new edition one day lol.
As someone who always ends up being some sort of party support character no matter what class I play, Wizards now being able to get Cleric spells using INT from Magic Initiate sounds right up my alley. Also, it was great meeting the two of you and Jill at GenCon! I was the purple haired fellow who was sort of at a loss for words in the auto line 😂
The thing is that besides the prepared spells thank to the Spellbook Wizs have always access to some of the most broken ritual spells whenever they want
Regarding Counterspell, I was anticipating the wording to be modified to handle "spell-like" abilities, given the changes to monsters/NPCs no longer having actual spellcasting in their statblocks, in favor of equivalent actions. This combination of nerfing it, without aligning it with new-format statblocks... just sounds half-developed. Are we sure Crawford and Perkins are still in charge of this? It's not the first thing I've seen that looked like it came from a mis-understanding of other parts of the rules.
I'm sure this was intentional, they would have a backlash if they removed Counterspell so they nerfed it to mediocracy then paired it with removing spell casting for creature features on stat blocks. Now Counterspell only works as a PvP spell or the occasional creature that will be the poster child for showing that they didn't remove all casting from stat blocks. make find traps a better spell than counterspell and no one will want counterspell again.
@@nickm9102there's no way they completely remove spellcasting. Ive just finished watching nerdimmersions breakdown of counter spell and how it pairs against the new green dragon statblock. While yes it won't work against the fake spell like abilities, it will negate the actual once per use spells they have and they can no longer use those abilities. Since it doesn't use a spell slot for that creature, it's a feature with a charge.
@@brilobox2Sucked? The only limitations of Fantasmal Force are that it can't move, it only targets one target, and of course it's intangible. Otherwise, it's pretty much the perfect illusion.
since human's get heroic inspiration every long rest and diviners reroll their portants at the same time, they can ALWAYS reroll one of their portant dice, giving them a better chance of getting a super high or super low roll.
@@reesescup69 you're correct, breaking the invisibility spell by attacking or casting a spell doesn't come from the invisible condition, it comes from the spell itself. However, what they might be referring to is that in the new rules, when you Hide and succeed, you gain the invisible condition, so technically, they're right in that if you hide and cast an illusion spell you won't be heard or detected. Could be a fun option for like an arcane trickster to take a 3 level dip into illusionist to hide and then cast some illusion spell with out revealing where they are!
It really seems lime wiz got nerfed, but mostly just other classes got buffed. I would have liked it if they kept the Modify Spell and Create Spell features for wizard, it would make it seem more like a balancing than nerfing. They would still depend on downtime to prepare the changes, so it’s not like metamagic, and also has the gold cost limitation. For campaigns I DM, I’ll give wizards these spells (a more balanced version of them, like presented by treantmonk), they’re very cool and thematic, and also allow players to “create” their own spells without needing constant DM supervision and approval
the main thing i dont like is how the base class is completely flavourless. You just cast spells. Thats all your base features. Other full spellcasters get other kinds of magicy things to do. Power and flavour of wizard comes from subclasses basically.
@@arcturuslight_ yeah, I think the main flavor base wizards have of being studious and learners is put into their spellbook and how they can learn and prepare spells, but it is very dependant on the DM and how many spellbooks/scrolls/gold they give you The subclasses give them flavor but as any other caster, they don’t feel specifically wizardry to me. Their features are good and powerful, but the wizard aspect gets kinda lost in them
I agree that they should've kept something for spell creation, but Wizards needed to be nerfed & honestly they didn't go far enough. At higher levels Wizard will still be the S+ class.
@@malmasterson3890 they’ll be S because they have great high level spells. Other classes also have great spells, mainly sorcerer and bard (which gets all high level spells), so their only disadvantage is not changing out spells
I feel like counterspell should have been made into an opposed ability check, spellcasting ability vs spellcasting ability. I love the idea of spellcasters duelling with clashing spells, and counterspell is the best place for that. Plus, it's not a big jump from the 2014 version where the counterspeller could be making a spellcasting ability check anyway. And it's less of a nerf since ability checks aren't going to be affected by legendary resistances or the often high con saves of enemies.
Wizards do technically get less spells in active prepared use, but with backgrounds like Sage for magical initiate and being a high elf for example I was able to get 3 extra cantrips and an extra spell always prepared with a few more free slots at later levels from being an elf. You do have to spec into it, but at level 1 I can prepare 3 spells and have 3 ritual spells and 6 cantrips. This still leaves an open prepared spell slot for any new spell I pick up later. It’s just not all available as a base wizard.
In a gaming forum I frequent people complain about Force Cage because it takes the warrior classes out of the game. No saving throw. They can't teleport out. It's Zap, you don't get to play this combat. I suspect they'll support it being Concentration so now at least party members can free the warrior player by breaking Concentration. The warrior player is still inconvenienced for at least a round, which is fine for a 7th level spell, but now he still gets to play in the combat.
Here is the problem with that, Forcecage is a spell and creatures don't get spells they get features that are copy/paste spell mechanics. This is more so when it is a high lvl spell or ability. This change makes it easier for the GM to free their big fist martial. the Change will only hurt the players (only 13 stat blocks have Forcecage only 4 are below CR 22 it wasn't a problem for players very often.)
@@nickm9102 Those same people will see this as a win. They don't want the wizard to cast an I Win The Combat Spell. Contribute, yes. Help, yes. Have some power, fine. Not win the combat all by himself.
I'm not excited to play a Wizard, but (except for Scribes) I've never really considered them all that compelling. That's just a flavor thing. I also didn't take Silvery Barbs or Forcecage, and rarely used Counterspell because my fellow players weren't optimizers, and I didn't want to be THE player. So my 2024 Scribes Wizard will be more-or-less the same, and she will still be absolutely ridiculous when warranted.
I'm with you there. Outside of a couple of niche builds (most of which are no longer viable w/2024), Scribes is the only Wizard I actually find interesting. I've always felt it to be the most Wizardy Wizard that strikes a nice balance between being beginner friendly while also having plenty of potential for shenanigans for veterans.
What if? Sorcerer casts Fireball, enemy successfully uses Counterspell. Accordingly to new spell rules, can sorcerer just use Quickened spell and cast Fireball again as a bonus action because he didn't expend a spell slot?
With the bard having access to 3 spell lists, I don't even know if the wizard is the most versatile anymore. I guess their differential is with rituals
@@brilobox2 from level 10+ bard now has the wizard spell list plus cleric and druid and their own... Level 6+ if Lore Bard. I guess wizards can cast rituals without preparing (unless that has changed) and have the ability to scribe scrolls and learn from scrolls, so that might give them a bit more versatility.
You forget all casters are ritual casters now. Sorcerers and Warlocks have better power and Bard is more versatile. All the Wizard has left is its spell book that makes it easier to destroy their available spell list and lets you use a ritual spell without it being prepared. not really a perk but it still belongs to only the Wizard.
Best part about war caster is that oportunity attacks no longer specify hostile so you could hypothetically cast haste as a reaction on a party member if they run past you.
your class reviews are sooooo good for long-term value and repeat viewing! New 20204 wizard still feels about the same power level relative to the other classes, but ... the other classes now have gained numerus cool and fun features to explore
I love the changes to Illusionist. I think they are going to be really fun to play. :) I know you said Acid Splash would be a good minion sweeper for Evokers - but just a reminder that Elemental Adept is also still a +1 feat now. So you could take that and Warcaster to max your INT.
I thought some version of Memorize Spell made it through as the only major change (the rest of the changes were somewhat minor... maybe?) to the wizard... like it now only works after each short rest?
There's a plus side to nerfing Counterspell. Don't forget that the DM can use Counterspell too. If your entire class is built around casting spells, (it's pretty much all you do if you're a wizard), weakening one of the biggest threats to your spellcasting isn't all bad.
Good point. I don't like counterspell personally. I don't feel like it's overpowered, but it slows the game down really dramatically. When a fight is already slow and takes a long time, a spell hat once per round invalidates a turn feels bad.
But monsters typically have much better con saves than player characters and many have legendary resistance. The nerf is much more heavily weighted in the monster’s favor
There was a great alternative source book for 3.5, The Slayers universe where high powered magic was the norm. To counter a spell, you would cast the opposite spell. Counter a flare arrow (fire bolt), use ice arrow (ray of frost). You would have to have a held action or reaction to try casting it. If you countered with the same spell, it would amplify the effect. Think two fireballs hitting each other! All spells required a spell casting roll and all spells caused fatigue or even lethal damage to the caster.
Funny this is the first time I have ever taken Wizard out of my character consideration. I am tempted to play a fighter not because i want to but because it was the one that WotC damaged the least in the 2024 renerfed PHB.
@@nickm9102 damaged the least? My brother in Christ, fighter literally got straight buffs on every conceivable level. There’s no nerfs to be seen. The only class that got buffed more is monk.
Oh how I've been waiting for this!!! Will my Tiefling Wizard be ok?! What I think D&DBeyond needs to do is have a button for 2014- and 2024-character creation. Because many groups will stay 2014 and others won't. D&DB could lose many subscribers and customers if they don't have BOTH available!
Suggestion saved us a big bothersome brawl with a gaggle of wear-creatures. Level 2 or 3, I bought a scroll and busted it out in their smuggling warehouse. Clutch ASF for my scrawny-at-the-time artificer
My only real disappointment with the wizard changes is how Abjurers are more effective at Counterspell and Dispel Magic. In 2014, you added your PB to the contested roll, effectively a +3 to +6. Now, you don’t expend the spell slot when the target succeeds in the save. In 2014, it was focused around getting the Counterspell/Dispel to land. In 2024, the focus is on letting you do it again later if it doesn’t land. To me, they feel like spells that, if you’re casting them, it’s because you really want them to work in that moment, so getting another chance to do it later isn’t as useful as getting increased chances to have it work right now
Other than the replacement of the savant feature at lvl 2, wizards got nothing but nerfs. Some minor subclass stuff, but the base class and their lone identity (the spells, as Monty likes to point out repeatedly) got nerfs.
@@brilobox2 Spoken like someone who only plays one class. the reality is that Sorcerer is stronger in the 2014 than wizard but Wizard got more versatility with spells. If you never change your spells you are better off as a Sorcerer.
They got one perk that will no doubt be corrected very soon. Magic items don't use spell slots so Every Wizard will now demand magic items with spell casting as you can technically cast a bonus action or reaction spell from the twenty spells available to wizards that are BA or reaction casts and they can cast that 5th lvl fireball from that Staff of Power so there is that once a campaign possibility to misty step to safety and fireball the one that closed to melee with you. but considering the spell list I think i would rather have the half price scribe cost on spells of my school.
If it wasn’t obvious, Wizard is the baseline they tried to move other classes up to. Because it is in many objective measures the most powerful class. So it got the least impactful changes.
Savant got buffed considerably with giving more spells of your school every level vs. halving the cost of scribing new spells. You also get Scholar and thus proficiency AND expertise in a skill you didn't have before which is huge. Then you get Memorize Spell on top, something that never existed before and gives incredible versatility no one else has.
about the change in Suggestion, what it gains in power, it loses in player creativity. It used to be a fun challenge and dynamic to think from the target's perspective as to what they would consider against their core principles, but because DMs found this too difficult they've simplified it to whatever is "achievable".. gone is the flavour about it being a "suggestion", and now it's just an "order".. They could have called it Command v2. I think they should have instead changed the wording of "reasonable" to "not intrinsically opposed to" and you would have achieved all objectives
I do like the design of the illusionist going back somewhat to their roots. Back in 1st ed. AD&D there was only one other subclass (technically the only subclass) of Wizard, the Illusionist. (By way of comparison both the Ranger and Paladin were subclasses of Fighter, Druid was the subclass of Cleric and Assassin of Thief). The Illusionist only got spells up to 7th level, (the wizard got spells up to 9th, but both Cleric and Druid also limited to 7th) and these illusionist spells were not a subset of the wizards spells, they were different. It felt like a genuinely different class. (Almost certainly weaker, but different with a different flavour and gameplay). One of the old style illusionist best group of spells was Shadow monsters, (slightly different named spells at different levels I believe the best/highest was Quasi shadow monster). The mechanic worked as follows, If your opponent didn't try and disbelieve them then they acted exactly like the real thing, If they did disbelieve then they only did a fraction of the damage and had a fraction of the hit points. The fraction by memory (and it was quite a few decades ago that I played) was the lowest spell if disbelieved were 20% effective, the highest spell still retained 80& effectiveness, despite disbelief.
I think I would house rule that Counterspell can be used to attempt to interrupt any Magic Action. If they’re going to condense any magical effect into a single action type, might as well use it.
I really think the main thing that holds back wizards is the fact that they are the only class (besides artificers) that really want Int. Multiclassing with a wizard is far less appealing than other classes because of this. Plus Int, outside of knowledge skills and saving throws, does not have much use and the vast majority of players would rather have something like Cha that has tons of use outside of spellcasting
Really wish the wizards had more prepared spells. Most tables I've played at rarely change out spells because the day-ahead planning doesn't work with the adventure or how the party operates. In then end the wizard just ends up having fewer spells at their disposal.
This may or may not have been asked by someone. What I would like to know is if there was any change to the cost associated to scribing spells into their spellbook. I have dabbled with a few wizards in my games, as a player and as a DM, and this is always a hot subject for me.
A couple notes about the new counterspell: 1. From what little we’ve seen of the 2025 MM, WotC seems to be backing away from non-spell spells, returning towards just giving monsters spells. Non-spell spells that were written out in the statblock were a decent experiment at trying to make complex monsters easier to run, but ultimately it didn’t really do enough to warrant the annoying edge cases it created, and being harder to interact with by players made the game feel less dynamic. 2. Monster statblocks that cast spells use n-per-day castings rather than spell slots, so they do not get a refund when counterspelled. So unless the DM makes a villain with player statistics, the slot refund is solely player-facing, just making it less annoying to get counterspelled. So the real deciding factor is how high enemy CON saves are in the new MM, and if they actually listened to the community and lowered them compared to the 2014 versions, then counterspell will still be good, else it’ll be useful but inconsistent (the fate of rogues is also tied to this, with all their cunning strikes that demand CON saves)
OMG ! I'm so sad about these spells changes :/ Banishment's range got reduced to 30 ft ! Forcecage not only is a concentration now, but it consumes the 1500gp material ! Sadge Wizard
Because wizards are masters of the weave, they should be able to add secondary effects to certain spells. To a wizard, fire bolt is likely one of the most basic and easily cast spells that exists. They should have a feature that causes any energy based cantrip to apply that energy's debuff if the targeted creatures do not have resistance to that energy. For example, fire bolt causes burning on targets that do not have resistance to fire. Thunder Clap can knock its targets prone. Radiant damage can result in blindness (if you count radiant as an energy type). Ray of frost might be able to apply restrained if we're feeling a bit ambitious or simply reduce the movement speed to zero. Something like that, but make it cost an extra spell slot That'd put wizards right back up there with the other casters imo.
Are there any changes to ritual casting for wizards? They were the better ritual casters since they didn't need to prepare the ritual spell. It just needed to be in their spellbook.
If Pact of the Tome and the warlock ability for pact ritual casting both didn't change, that would be the best ritual caster. It was that way for 2014.
Even if you do allow it, because of the "One Spell with a Spell Slot" per turn rule, you can't use Silvery Barbs on the same turn as casting another spell (unless it doesn't expend a spell slot). It is now more a way to help an ally rather than to increase the odds of your own spells working.
I think the new Savant features are a considerable boost to wizards, since now you got guaranteed extra spells at certain levels (which makes it even easier to make builds).
Simulacrum actually can still make a simulacrum because they never cast that spell originally they cast Wish to simulate it; thus the loop still works.
I'm sure they will just add a line to the replicate spell area of wish (caster must follow all spell restrictions) If they can find a way to take the fun out of playing a Wizard they will.
@@broomemike1 What do you mean? The simulacrum has 9th level spell slots if you do when you cast the spell initially. So yes the simulacrum can cast Wish
@@broomemike1 the idea is that you use your 7th lvl slot for Simulacrum or use a scroll to cast Wish. Then the Simulacrum has its 9th lvl slot to cast Wish to replicate Simulacrum on you. Then the New Simulacrum cast it's Wish to replicate Simulacrum. Repeat until bored with the idea and now you have an Army of Simulacrums with all the 1st-8th lvl slots available for use. On the same account you could scribe scrolls and use those for the Wish casting.
So thinking about what I didn’t like about the UA Modify Spell I decided to homebrew a new version that doesn’t just feel like metamagic. I’m probably only did this because my wife plays a Wizard and I don’t want her complaining about the glow up everyone else got. We have a Sorcerer as well. Basically took the UA PT5 Modify Spell and made it a 7th level class feature that lets you prepare 1 additional spell that has one of the modifications on it. It can only be changed after a short or long rest. This way it feels more like something a wizard does in preparation and not just spontaneous metamagic.
I'm sadly disappointed. I haven't checked out the spell list yet, but the biggest good change I noticed was the ability to swap out cantrips. Overall, I'm excited to try out the new content with my party, next month!
Not sure if it would be too powerful, but I would very much like either to get 1 ritual spell every 2 level or some ability to observe and learn a spell once every 2 long rest or something like this, this way you aren't always dependent on your GM to drop you scrolls or spellbooks.
I actually really like the wizard more than the sorcerer so i hope it's still as powerful as it used to. what is your favorite change of the wizard and what is your least favorite change of the wizard dungeon dudes?
It's a bit more powerful than the 2014 version, but many classes got a lot better so I think the gap got smaller. (according to other creators, like Treantmonk)
The fact that they didn't nerf Simulacrum hardly at all means that you will indeed still be bonkers after level 13. I personally hate that they half-assed nerfing it, and I wish they gave it more unique features instead of just leaving so many spells absurdly overpowered.
@douglaspope-gz1eq I don't really feel one way or the other about it. Nerfs needed to happen, but I definitely think they should've targeted other spells more. Making it so counterspell just always required you to make the check no matter what would've been the safe middle ground.
One change I’m hoping happens for necromancer, is that you get healing effects from Grim harvest whenever one of your undead summons defeats something, not just you casting a new damaging spell.
when did you last have Counterspell cast on you as a player? I get once a campaign so not really the end of the world plus I always had counter to resist. now it makes find traps a better choice.
Just to clarify, not having a Verbal requirement does not mean it is "unnoticeable", if it ONLY has a Verbal it would be, per Subtle Spell. But Somatic is still there as is Material. For reference, the baseline of magic is something along the lines of Verbal - Gandalf's Voice, deep and unnatural, Somatic - Dr. Strange's glowing runes/hands, Material - pretty self explanatory. Origin feats are underwhelming at best.
The new counterspell actually may still be worth taking. The rule states that they dont expend the spell slot if its successfully countered. I think that line was more so DMs can counterspell players and players dont feel as bad for "wasting a spell slot." In the new Monsters Manual, if they follow what they did in Monsters of the Multiverse, any creature with spellcasting doesnt technically use a spell slot. Those spells are written as "2/day. Burning Hands" or "1/Day. Wall of Force." So you can actually grind monsters out of resources
Wizards still get a spell book with all their ritual spells handy. So across all caster, wizards will have a comparable number of spells available, unless the other classes take a feat. In which case, the Wizard can also take feats and increase their number of spells known as well. I'm sort of excited to play one, maybe an Abjuration Wizard with Shillelagh and Booming Blade.
From what I have heard about the changes to the other spellcasters ... it seems to me, that the others basically catched up to where the wizard already was and because the wizard has the best spell list and the flexibility of a spellbook, its still king in terms of power.
My main concerns about the new Wizard are the fixed number of spells prepared and the nerfing of Counterspell. The former because it doesn't insentivise maximizing intelligence as much since you won't get another new spell prepared by doing so. This concern might be overblown since I haven't seen the chart showing how many can be prepared at each level. My concern with the new Counterspell is twofold. First, after about level 15 or so enemies typically get strong enough that unless you use Portent or something else to impose a significant penalty to their saving throws they are most likely going to succeed even if they roll a 5 or higher on the die. Second, if you Counterspell an enemy then there is nothing stopping them from trying to cast a spell next turn and gradually outlasting you since they will either cast the spell or have the spell slot available next turn. There is literally no incentive for them to not try to spam spells since either way they are at least at a net zero loss.
Its always 4 at level 1 and goes up significantly. Don’t think there’s any level where an old 20 Int Wizard would have more prepared spells than the new Wizard.
Welcome back, Dudes! Overall, I get the feeling that the wizard as a class is closer to how it was in earlier versions of the game. Wizards can cast and arcane spells, and sorcerers are a prestige class that can cast fewer spells more often.
The feats themselves are tied to level 19+ (DOES NOT say character level). The rules say that if you can choose a feat and are not instructed on a category you can pick any feat you qualify for. So yes a Bard 5, Rogue 5, Ranger 5, Fighter 4 can pick up an Epic Boon. We know this is true because the suggestions for play above lv 20 say that you earn extra feats and epic booms are appropriate. Also says nothing about character level and gives no special dispensation - they can get them because they are character level 19+
So, I've always prefer the sorcerer over te wizzard, or even a Druid (which gives it more mele options). I do eventually want to play one, but I feel now I want to play sorcerer even more! Illusion wizzard may tempt me though (* love subtle spell!
I suspect the changes to Counterspell were done to benefit players. As in, it avoids the annoyance of enemy wizards countering player spells and wasting both their action and precious spell slots, which most players would probably got frustrated at. We also haven't seen the new Monster Manual. Counterspell may be more common, but more importantly: Will monsters stick to the "spells per day" statblock that replaced the spell-slots on monsters in recent books? E.g. in recent books a spellcasting monster would just say something like: " may cast the following spells: (3/day) Fly, Fireball, Invisibility". These aren't spell slots. So is the "spell per day" still wasted with the new Counterspell?
Greetings! You two answered a question I had for a while. Namely: If a subclass (or feat, spell, etc), doesn't appear in the new PhB, does that mean: A) It's currently pretty well-balanced as it is, and the 2014 version can stand? B) They're probably going to revise it within the next couple of years, therefore slowly making it less backwards compatible. For example, to play an Enchanter, as of the day the new PhB comes out: You use the 2024 Wizard bsse class, and the 2014 Enchanter Subclass. However, it sounds like they might be releasing a new book that has an Enchanter subclass in it?
I've been thinking about the idea that Sorcerers have gotten such a boost to their class that they are now the preeminant arcane caster and the wizard is second tier (wizards don't have as many spells prepared, can't use metamagic, don't have the new sorcerer's rage-like ability to increase their spell DCs). I'm not convinced that it actual play will reflect that sorcerers are just hands down better but let's assume for the moment that actual play will bear that out. Monty, what would you think of the following homebrew to at least make Wizards equal to sorcerers? 1. Allow Wizard spell DCs to increase by 1 on the cantrip advancement schedule. So +1 DC at 5th, +2 DC at 11th, +3 DC at 17th? This change, in my mind, would reflect that the Wizard is the class that really studies the RULES of magic, and has the intellect and discipline to cast CORRECTLY. Hermoinie Granger (Int based wizard) vs Harry Potter (Chr based sorcerer), if you will. 2. Take the new 5th level feature and loosen it up a bit. Allow Wizards to swap out spells from their spell book a few times a day, also on the cantrip improvement schedule, say. So you can do it once at 5th, twice at 11th, and 3 times at 17th. I would have it take a minute and require that they have their spell book with them. The idea is that they are frantically flipping through their spellbook and quickly re-reading over the spell they need. After all, it normally only takes a little while after a long rest to prepare ALL of their spells. Taking 1 minute doesnt' seem completely unreasonable in the abstract, but more importantly in play it still feels like something that you can't do lightly, there's still a cost to the action, but it preserves that level of flexibility and honestly just seems like a fun image to play with. Again, I think I'd like to actually play with the classes before making adjustments, but these ideas popped into my head when i watched this video and your video on the sorcerer.
I have the book now and I think the issue of Wizards not having as many prepared spells now, as compared to spell casting classes that get 'additional spells known/prepared', is incorrect. Wizards have a similar effect with their Ritual spells. There are 19 Ritual spells on the Wizard spell list and unlike any other class that uses Rituals, Wizards **don't have to have rituals prepared**. The Rituals don't progress in a uniformed manner, 2 per spell level, like say, Cleric Domain spells or Sorcerer subclass spells, but it very much evens out (while favoring the Wizard at lower levels). And I'll point out that the Wizard ritual spell list is the best of the spell casting classes (and it was in 2014, too). (I'd still like to innately boost their DCs, though. :D )
Big change you missed is that illusionists now cast minor illusion as a bonus action. In combat, they can go crazy with distractions and misdirections.
I will probably still use my changes to Counterspell. You make a spellcasting check with a DC 10+the spell level being countered. Upcasting it gives you a +1 to the check. But I have to check out the rest of it
I feel like Wizards are still the best based off versatility alone. Everyone keeps forgetting the savant feature which gives wizards WAY more spells to choose from. Also higher level wizards still have the strongest spell list compared to sorcerer and warlock, and they're still the best ritual casters! But I will admit the gap is very small between them now which is great imo.
Counter spell was one the most hype moments at a table. Rolling high enough to cancel a power word kill on my ranger fighting a lich is one my most memorble oneshot moments.
I'm so glad Force Cage requires concentration now! My DM put my character in a Force Cage for an entire boss fight, because he didn't want my character to take out his boss and had to intervene by fiat to break it early once the boss was dead and the whole cavern we were in started to collapse.
@10:22 the Bladesinger cantrips are NOT there? So are we talking about Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade? @13:15 the Necromancer - I have only heard complaints about it because everyone has a vision of a zillion thrawls and you only can support like 5 as a PC. So that didn't change? Is the idea of "the Summoner" completely gone in 2024 (this question includes Druid)? Or at least Toned down to not really be as cool a choice as before? I'm not sure if there ever was a Demon or Fae Summoner - or enough to support that as a main feature of a class.
You can easily have more than 5 undead with a Necromancer. The book in general has moved away from creatures summoning mass hordes out of nowhere like with Conjure Animals & Animate Objects. This is a net positive for the game as these spells were horrendously awful to deal with both for players & DM's despite them being strong. Should not be missed.
No way, its the dungeon dudes
Did someone say…the dungeon dudes?
It is us! The Dungeon Dudes!
you better believe it bucko
@@DungeonDudes hate some of the spell limitations like counter spell going to have to do alot of house rules which sucks example, force cage also the 1 spell per turn or round don't exactly remember yea house ruling that out and also can you go over ranger cause when I went over it, it sucks
Crazy! I expected the burrow bros this time
Not ONLY does forcecage require concentration - but it also has a CONSUMABLE 1500gp material component.
Love that the wizard changes are basically 99.9% subclass changes and .1% class changes to say the word “no”
Came for the dungeon. Stayed for the dudes.
Sounds like an innuendo
Gross
you guys didnt mention that the abjurer's ward now factors in any resistances or immunities before it takes damage not after
i am super surprised they didn't make it into temporary hitpoints like they did with some other "extra hitpoints" features
@@arcturuslight_I'm happy they didn't screw that up.
@@mshadowstrider Same, IMO it should stack!
@@Mastikator IMO, all temp hp from separate sources should stack. The fact that it doesn't is a thematic and mechanical headache.
@@arcturuslight_ I mean the only one you can't restack is temp hp, if you use aid and the old heros feast (idk if the new one still does it) to increase your max hp you can stack them both
Omg it’s the dudes of the dungeon!
Dudes, dudes, dudes of the dungeon
Time for initiative roll!
_(Ahhaaahaaahaaa)_
Watch out for that troll!
The removal of mass suggestion from the Warlock spell list has me howling for blood, especially since the spell was buffed.
2024 PHB is backwards compatible. You can choose what changes you want to keep and leave behind.
I don't understand why they would do this? Is it too strong as a Mystic Arcanum now you can cast it without a spell slot AND another levelled spell?
@@zander6341 Not exactly. If you're playing with 2024 rules and something is in the 2024 PHB, including spell lists, you have to use that version.
Of course, this is just based on what the book says. No one is gonna stop you if you decide to revert some changes.
@@zander6341 let's be clear THE GM, not you, gets to decide. For people like me who are limited to AL tables that means that I am stuck with all the interesting spells now just being "I cast Temp HP at 9th lvl," as for counterspell it was situational in 2014 but everyone took it for that one time to use it. now it is not worth considering. MoM shows that the stat blocks will no longer be casters but will have features that suspiciously look like copy/paste of spells. there should have been no change to counterspell but people meta gamed the ability too much. if you did a base counter and rolled for everything over the lvl it is more fun anyway.
@@daanopdebeeck2312 they probably did it because it was objectively the best option from power level stand point for any build so now you have more good options because the best one is now out
I’ve watched most of your videos and I’m just now realizing the serotonin hit I get from “We are the Dungeon Dudes!”
I absolutely don't think wizards would be broken by having one spell of each level from level 1 to 5 always prepared, as long as ot was from an specific school. Actually, I would live to see spell schools NOT be the wizards subclasses, but instead be a feature you choose at first level just to get extra prepared spells, and then their subclasses being more like the war wizard or the blade singer.
That's a pretty interesting suggestion for subclasses/features, but I think that would really mess up backwards compatibility. :/
@@EvilGeniusPrimehow so?
@@arcturuslight_ If you were converting a 2014 necromancer to 2024 where necromancer was a package you chose separately from your subclass, then you'd get to/have to choose a whole new subclass, which could result in a wildly different character.
Maybe in practice it wouldn't be too bad (depends on all of the details) but that seems like a bigger change to the base class than what they have otherwise done with the updates.
@@EvilGeniusPrimeif it was a completely separate wizard feature that only gives them extra spells prepared, I fail to see how that would mess up backwards compatibility whatsoever. In the example you gave, you can still just use the necromancer and all that is different is you'll have more necromancy spells prepared.
@@EvilGeniusPrime With all due respect, I don'tcare about backwards compatibility. And to be honest, neither does Wizard's of the Coast.
I just realized, with the new wording for Heroic Inspiration, you can use it to reroll your portent rolls. So when you do your daily portent rolls, if you get something middling like a 12, you can reroll it to hopefully get something closer to 1 or 20
Still would happily play a Divination wizard again, but yes wish there was a little something something to make wizards different. The adjusting spells in the first UAs for ONE D&D were really interesting. Maybe if there's a new edition one day lol.
They overpowered the most overpowered class but God they were cool.
So true... i knew it was OP...BUT IT WAS FUN lol
As someone who always ends up being some sort of party support character no matter what class I play, Wizards now being able to get Cleric spells using INT from Magic Initiate sounds right up my alley. Also, it was great meeting the two of you and Jill at GenCon! I was the purple haired fellow who was sort of at a loss for words in the auto line 😂
even wost, on top of requiring concentration forcecage also consumes the material component
The thing is that besides the prepared spells thank to the Spellbook Wizs have always access to some of the most broken ritual spells whenever they want
Regarding Counterspell, I was anticipating the wording to be modified to handle "spell-like" abilities, given the changes to monsters/NPCs no longer having actual spellcasting in their statblocks, in favor of equivalent actions. This combination of nerfing it, without aligning it with new-format statblocks... just sounds half-developed. Are we sure Crawford and Perkins are still in charge of this? It's not the first thing I've seen that looked like it came from a mis-understanding of other parts of the rules.
I'm sure this was intentional, they would have a backlash if they removed Counterspell so they nerfed it to mediocracy then paired it with removing spell casting for creature features on stat blocks. Now Counterspell only works as a PvP spell or the occasional creature that will be the poster child for showing that they didn't remove all casting from stat blocks. make find traps a better spell than counterspell and no one will want counterspell again.
@@nickm9102there's no way they completely remove spellcasting. Ive just finished watching nerdimmersions breakdown of counter spell and how it pairs against the new green dragon statblock. While yes it won't work against the fake spell like abilities, it will negate the actual once per use spells they have and they can no longer use those abilities. Since it doesn't use a spell slot for that creature, it's a feature with a charge.
7:27 Kelly, what were you going to add about Phantasmal Force? Super curious.
It doesn’t suck anymore, apparently. According to other creators at least.
I want to know too
@@brilobox2wait what? when has it sucked?
@@brilobox2Sucked? The only limitations of Fantasmal Force are that it can't move, it only targets one target, and of course it's intangible.
Otherwise, it's pretty much the perfect illusion.
@@Ravasalsed the only problems with it is that it sucked. Other than that, it was perfect.
since human's get heroic inspiration every long rest and diviners reroll their portants at the same time, they can ALWAYS reroll one of their portant dice, giving them a better chance of getting a super high or super low roll.
20 Int comment right there
It's OK Monty.... You'll just have to kill the PCs with Forcecage combos by having 2 spell caster BBEGs
Wait wait wait... so... Illusionists are now completely immune to the Silence spell? That's actually really cool
At least when it comes to Illusion spells yes
yup, also means them casting illusion spells won't break the invisible condition if you're trying to sneak around
shenanigans are afoot
@@DimkaSulegnaa Doesn't invis state until you attack or cast a spell? Casting the spell breaks it not the components?
@@reesescup69 you're correct, breaking the invisibility spell by attacking or casting a spell doesn't come from the invisible condition, it comes from the spell itself. However, what they might be referring to is that in the new rules, when you Hide and succeed, you gain the invisible condition, so technically, they're right in that if you hide and cast an illusion spell you won't be heard or detected. Could be a fun option for like an arcane trickster to take a 3 level dip into illusionist to hide and then cast some illusion spell with out revealing where they are!
This gives aberrant soul sorcerer with the psychic spell vibes
It really seems lime wiz got nerfed, but mostly just other classes got buffed.
I would have liked it if they kept the Modify Spell and Create Spell features for wizard, it would make it seem more like a balancing than nerfing. They would still depend on downtime to prepare the changes, so it’s not like metamagic, and also has the gold cost limitation.
For campaigns I DM, I’ll give wizards these spells (a more balanced version of them, like presented by treantmonk), they’re very cool and thematic, and also allow players to “create” their own spells without needing constant DM supervision and approval
the main thing i dont like is how the base class is completely flavourless. You just cast spells. Thats all your base features. Other full spellcasters get other kinds of magicy things to do. Power and flavour of wizard comes from subclasses basically.
@@arcturuslight_ yeah, I think the main flavor base wizards have of being studious and learners is put into their spellbook and how they can learn and prepare spells, but it is very dependant on the DM and how many spellbooks/scrolls/gold they give you
The subclasses give them flavor but as any other caster, they don’t feel specifically wizardry to me. Their features are good and powerful, but the wizard aspect gets kinda lost in them
I agree that they should've kept something for spell creation, but Wizards needed to be nerfed & honestly they didn't go far enough. At higher levels Wizard will still be the S+ class.
After the first enemy spellcaster dies and drops their spell book, your Wizard will be happy that she's a wizard.
@@malmasterson3890 they’ll be S because they have great high level spells. Other classes also have great spells, mainly sorcerer and bard (which gets all high level spells), so their only disadvantage is not changing out spells
I feel like counterspell should have been made into an opposed ability check, spellcasting ability vs spellcasting ability. I love the idea of spellcasters duelling with clashing spells, and counterspell is the best place for that.
Plus, it's not a big jump from the 2014 version where the counterspeller could be making a spellcasting ability check anyway. And it's less of a nerf since ability checks aren't going to be affected by legendary resistances or the often high con saves of enemies.
Damn you guys are so fast !! I love your content and you explain it so clearly ! thank you so much !
Wizards do technically get less spells in active prepared use, but with backgrounds like Sage for magical initiate and being a high elf for example I was able to get 3 extra cantrips and an extra spell always prepared with a few more free slots at later levels from being an elf.
You do have to spec into it, but at level 1 I can prepare 3 spells and have 3 ritual spells and 6 cantrips.
This still leaves an open prepared spell slot for any new spell I pick up later. It’s just not all available as a base wizard.
In a gaming forum I frequent people complain about Force Cage because it takes the warrior classes out of the game. No saving throw. They can't teleport out. It's Zap, you don't get to play this combat. I suspect they'll support it being Concentration so now at least party members can free the warrior player by breaking Concentration. The warrior player is still inconvenienced for at least a round, which is fine for a 7th level spell, but now he still gets to play in the combat.
Here is the problem with that, Forcecage is a spell and creatures don't get spells they get features that are copy/paste spell mechanics. This is more so when it is a high lvl spell or ability. This change makes it easier for the GM to free their big fist martial. the Change will only hurt the players (only 13 stat blocks have Forcecage only 4 are below CR 22 it wasn't a problem for players very often.)
@@nickm9102 Forcecage is a stupid broken spell and it should be deleted. But this change is ok.
@@nickm9102 Those same people will see this as a win. They don't want the wizard to cast an I Win The Combat Spell. Contribute, yes. Help, yes. Have some power, fine. Not win the combat all by himself.
I'm not excited to play a Wizard, but (except for Scribes) I've never really considered them all that compelling.
That's just a flavor thing.
I also didn't take Silvery Barbs or Forcecage, and rarely used Counterspell because my fellow players weren't optimizers, and I didn't want to be THE player.
So my 2024 Scribes Wizard will be more-or-less the same, and she will still be absolutely ridiculous when warranted.
I'm with you there. Outside of a couple of niche builds (most of which are no longer viable w/2024), Scribes is the only Wizard I actually find interesting. I've always felt it to be the most Wizardy Wizard that strikes a nice balance between being beginner friendly while also having plenty of potential for shenanigans for veterans.
What if? Sorcerer casts Fireball, enemy successfully uses Counterspell. Accordingly to new spell rules, can sorcerer just use Quickened spell and cast Fireball again as a bonus action because he didn't expend a spell slot?
No, but only because Quickened spell doesn’t allow you to cast more than one leveled spell a turn.
@@lamarwashington2718 Did you read the last part of his comment or just ignore it?
With the bard having access to 3 spell lists, I don't even know if the wizard is the most versatile anymore. I guess their differential is with rituals
No its still Wizards. Bonkers versatility and cracked spell list.
@@brilobox2 the thing about bards is they have access to the wizard spell list.
the wizard has weaker base class and needs subclass features to carry it basically
@@brilobox2 from level 10+ bard now has the wizard spell list plus cleric and druid and their own... Level 6+ if Lore Bard. I guess wizards can cast rituals without preparing (unless that has changed) and have the ability to scribe scrolls and learn from scrolls, so that might give them a bit more versatility.
You forget all casters are ritual casters now. Sorcerers and Warlocks have better power and Bard is more versatile. All the Wizard has left is its spell book that makes it easier to destroy their available spell list and lets you use a ritual spell without it being prepared. not really a perk but it still belongs to only the Wizard.
Best part about war caster is that oportunity attacks no longer specify hostile so you could hypothetically cast haste as a reaction on a party member if they run past you.
this is so amazing
It's so dumb that you can only do it as they leave your reach and not when they stand still in front of you.
Expect an errata.
Im so glad to hear you guys also got early access! I love your videos and your guys' banter
Loving the podcast! Going to miss y'all's weekly chats next few weeks but hope the training is good and you kick some ass in Chamonix.
Thanks dudes! ❤
10:33 *flips table* the fuck you mean there's no vortex warp? XD That's like my favorite spell in the entire game.
It's not in the PHB, but it never was to begin with.
your class reviews are sooooo good for long-term value and repeat viewing! New 20204 wizard still feels about the same power level relative to the other classes, but ... the other classes now have gained numerus cool and fun features to explore
The problem I have is that the Wizard spell list is lootable.
I love the changes to Illusionist. I think they are going to be really fun to play. :)
I know you said Acid Splash would be a good minion sweeper for Evokers - but just a reminder that Elemental Adept is also still a +1 feat now. So you could take that and Warcaster to max your INT.
I thought some version of Memorize Spell made it through as the only major change (the rest of the changes were somewhat minor... maybe?) to the wizard... like it now only works after each short rest?
I appreciate the info they're offering, I would appreciate a visual aid like an excerpt from the book if possible
There's a plus side to nerfing Counterspell. Don't forget that the DM can use Counterspell too. If your entire class is built around casting spells, (it's pretty much all you do if you're a wizard), weakening one of the biggest threats to your spellcasting isn't all bad.
Good point. I don't like counterspell personally. I don't feel like it's overpowered, but it slows the game down really dramatically. When a fight is already slow and takes a long time, a spell hat once per round invalidates a turn feels bad.
But monsters typically have much better con saves than player characters and many have legendary resistance. The nerf is much more heavily weighted in the monster’s favor
Wizards are not proficient in Con Saves.
There was a great alternative source book for 3.5, The Slayers universe where high powered magic was the norm. To counter a spell, you would cast the opposite spell. Counter a flare arrow (fire bolt), use ice arrow (ray of frost). You would have to have a held action or reaction to try casting it. If you countered with the same spell, it would amplify the effect. Think two fireballs hitting each other! All spells required a spell casting roll and all spells caused fatigue or even lethal damage to the caster.
This is the first time in a LONG time I've been interested in playing an illusionist. Old school Gnome Illusionist/Thief, here I come!
Make your own spell scrolls then cast them as s bonus action with fast hands!
Funny this is the first time I have ever taken Wizard out of my character consideration. I am tempted to play a fighter not because i want to but because it was the one that WotC damaged the least in the 2024 renerfed PHB.
@@nickm9102 damaged the least? My brother in Christ, fighter literally got straight buffs on every conceivable level. There’s no nerfs to be seen. The only class that got buffed more is monk.
Oh how I've been waiting for this!!! Will my Tiefling Wizard be ok?! What I think D&DBeyond needs to do is have a button for 2014- and 2024-character creation. Because many groups will stay 2014 and others won't. D&DB could lose many subscribers and customers if they don't have BOTH available!
10:42 "The jacuzzi of radiance" a.k.a. Hot Tub Blind Machine
No discussion about the changes to spell mastery?
Suggestion saved us a big bothersome brawl with a gaggle of wear-creatures. Level 2 or 3, I bought a scroll and busted it out in their smuggling warehouse. Clutch ASF for my scrawny-at-the-time artificer
My only real disappointment with the wizard changes is how Abjurers are more effective at Counterspell and Dispel Magic. In 2014, you added your PB to the contested roll, effectively a +3 to +6. Now, you don’t expend the spell slot when the target succeeds in the save. In 2014, it was focused around getting the Counterspell/Dispel to land. In 2024, the focus is on letting you do it again later if it doesn’t land. To me, they feel like spells that, if you’re casting them, it’s because you really want them to work in that moment, so getting another chance to do it later isn’t as useful as getting increased chances to have it work right now
Other than the replacement of the savant feature at lvl 2, wizards got nothing but nerfs. Some minor subclass stuff, but the base class and their lone identity (the spells, as Monty likes to point out repeatedly) got nerfs.
Still the most powerful class.
@@brilobox2 Spoken like someone who only plays one class. the reality is that Sorcerer is stronger in the 2014 than wizard but Wizard got more versatility with spells. If you never change your spells you are better off as a Sorcerer.
They got one perk that will no doubt be corrected very soon. Magic items don't use spell slots so Every Wizard will now demand magic items with spell casting as you can technically cast a bonus action or reaction spell from the twenty spells available to wizards that are BA or reaction casts and they can cast that 5th lvl fireball from that Staff of Power so there is that once a campaign possibility to misty step to safety and fireball the one that closed to melee with you. but considering the spell list I think i would rather have the half price scribe cost on spells of my school.
If it wasn’t obvious, Wizard is the baseline they tried to move other classes up to. Because it is in many objective measures the most powerful class. So it got the least impactful changes.
Savant got buffed considerably with giving more spells of your school every level vs. halving the cost of scribing new spells. You also get Scholar and thus proficiency AND expertise in a skill you didn't have before which is huge. Then you get Memorize Spell on top, something that never existed before and gives incredible versatility no one else has.
DD commenting on D&D, love it!
about the change in Suggestion, what it gains in power, it loses in player creativity. It used to be a fun challenge and dynamic to think from the target's perspective as to what they would consider against their core principles, but because DMs found this too difficult they've simplified it to whatever is "achievable".. gone is the flavour about it being a "suggestion", and now it's just an "order".. They could have called it Command v2. I think they should have instead changed the wording of "reasonable" to "not intrinsically opposed to" and you would have achieved all objectives
Is your DM a stickler though?
My favourite dudes talking about my favourite game 🧙♂️🧙♂️
Oh, a Wednesday post! Should we expect a bunch of posts consecutively, or just a couple extras as you run the gauntlet of the new handbook updates?
One of my first characters may be a Dwarf Abjurer.
AKA a steel cannon!
@@Mastikator Ya Its a idea Ive wanted to do for five to six years. An now with the new rules, feats and spells. Im doing it.
I do like the design of the illusionist going back somewhat to their roots.
Back in 1st ed. AD&D there was only one other subclass (technically the only subclass) of Wizard, the Illusionist. (By way of comparison both the Ranger and Paladin were subclasses of Fighter, Druid was the subclass of Cleric and Assassin of Thief).
The Illusionist only got spells up to 7th level, (the wizard got spells up to 9th, but both Cleric and Druid also limited to 7th) and these illusionist spells were not a subset of the wizards spells, they were different.
It felt like a genuinely different class. (Almost certainly weaker, but different with a different flavour and gameplay).
One of the old style illusionist best group of spells was Shadow monsters, (slightly different named spells at different levels I believe the best/highest was Quasi shadow monster).
The mechanic worked as follows, If your opponent didn't try and disbelieve them then they acted exactly like the real thing, If they did disbelieve then they only did a fraction of the damage and had a fraction of the hit points. The fraction by memory (and it was quite a few decades ago that I played) was the lowest spell if disbelieved were 20% effective, the highest spell still retained 80& effectiveness, despite disbelief.
I think I would house rule that Counterspell can be used to attempt to interrupt any Magic Action. If they’re going to condense any magical effect into a single action type, might as well use it.
I really think the main thing that holds back wizards is the fact that they are the only class (besides artificers) that really want Int. Multiclassing with a wizard is far less appealing than other classes because of this. Plus Int, outside of knowledge skills and saving throws, does not have much use and the vast majority of players would rather have something like Cha that has tons of use outside of spellcasting
So Suggestion is no longer a suggestion but a Demand.
Really wish the wizards had more prepared spells. Most tables I've played at rarely change out spells because the day-ahead planning doesn't work with the adventure or how the party operates. In then end the wizard just ends up having fewer spells at their disposal.
This may or may not have been asked by someone. What I would like to know is if there was any change to the cost associated to scribing spells into their spellbook. I have dabbled with a few wizards in my games, as a player and as a DM, and this is always a hot subject for me.
A couple notes about the new counterspell:
1. From what little we’ve seen of the 2025 MM, WotC seems to be backing away from non-spell spells, returning towards just giving monsters spells.
Non-spell spells that were written out in the statblock were a decent experiment at trying to make complex monsters easier to run, but ultimately it didn’t really do enough to warrant the annoying edge cases it created, and being harder to interact with by players made the game feel less dynamic.
2. Monster statblocks that cast spells use n-per-day castings rather than spell slots, so they do not get a refund when counterspelled. So unless the DM makes a villain with player statistics, the slot refund is solely player-facing, just making it less annoying to get counterspelled.
So the real deciding factor is how high enemy CON saves are in the new MM, and if they actually listened to the community and lowered them compared to the 2014 versions, then counterspell will still be good, else it’ll be useful but inconsistent (the fate of rogues is also tied to this, with all their cunning strikes that demand CON saves)
OMG ! I'm so sad about these spells changes :/
Banishment's range got reduced to 30 ft !
Forcecage not only is a concentration now, but it consumes the 1500gp material !
Sadge Wizard
Did they fix Phantom Steed? It needs to last 4 - 8 hours to be used in travel for hex travel.
It's a ritual spell with a ritual cast time of 11 mins. This means you will never run out of 1 hour steeds.
@@apjapkiso you stop every hour for 11 minutes. Its weird it doesn't just last for 8 hours.
It is also great to cast a combination of phantom steed and floating disk to create a motorcycle and sidecar for the whole party.
Because wizards are masters of the weave, they should be able to add secondary effects to certain spells. To a wizard, fire bolt is likely one of the most basic and easily cast spells that exists.
They should have a feature that causes any energy based cantrip to apply that energy's debuff if the targeted creatures do not have resistance to that energy. For example, fire bolt causes burning on targets that do not have resistance to fire. Thunder Clap can knock its targets prone. Radiant damage can result in blindness (if you count radiant as an energy type). Ray of frost might be able to apply restrained if we're feeling a bit ambitious or simply reduce the movement speed to zero. Something like that, but make it cost an extra spell slot
That'd put wizards right back up there with the other casters imo.
Are there any changes to ritual casting for wizards? They were the better ritual casters since they didn't need to prepare the ritual spell. It just needed to be in their spellbook.
That is still the case. You can fill your spellbook with 15 rituals and cast any of them whenever, and don’t have to sacrifice any prepared space.
If Pact of the Tome and the warlock ability for pact ritual casting both didn't change, that would be the best ritual caster. It was that way for 2014.
@@anotherdadjoke warlocks can no longer pick higher level rituals. they can only access level 1 rituals. wizards are still the best ritual casters.
the fact that Silvery Bards doesn't seem to have been touched is incredibly annoying. As a DM, that spell infuriates me.
I'm gonna need you to reroll that comment
Silvery Barbs is not in the book.
@@apjapki Which means that you can still use the SCC version of it, i.e. the spell hasn't changed.
As a DM you don’t have to allow that spell, or that whole book, to be used at all
Even if you do allow it, because of the "One Spell with a Spell Slot" per turn rule, you can't use Silvery Barbs on the same turn as casting another spell (unless it doesn't expend a spell slot). It is now more a way to help an ally rather than to increase the odds of your own spells working.
I'm glad the illusionist got some new shine. Has been my favorite school of magic sense 3.5
I think the new Savant features are a considerable boost to wizards, since now you got guaranteed extra spells at certain levels (which makes it even easier to make builds).
Simulacrum actually can still make a simulacrum because they never cast that spell originally they cast Wish to simulate it; thus the loop still works.
I'm sure they will just add a line to the replicate spell area of wish (caster must follow all spell restrictions) If they can find a way to take the fun out of playing a Wizard they will.
@@nickm9102 I mean the books are already printed...and that's not in there.
I don't understand the "loop." Wouldn't you max out at 2?
The second simulacrum has no level 9 slots, right?
@@broomemike1 What do you mean? The simulacrum has 9th level spell slots if you do when you cast the spell initially. So yes the simulacrum can cast Wish
@@broomemike1 the idea is that you use your 7th lvl slot for Simulacrum or use a scroll to cast Wish. Then the Simulacrum has its 9th lvl slot to cast Wish to replicate Simulacrum on you. Then the New Simulacrum cast it's Wish to replicate Simulacrum. Repeat until bored with the idea and now you have an Army of Simulacrums with all the 1st-8th lvl slots available for use. On the same account you could scribe scrolls and use those for the Wish casting.
So thinking about what I didn’t like about the UA Modify Spell I decided to homebrew a new version that doesn’t just feel like metamagic. I’m probably only did this because my wife plays a Wizard and I don’t want her complaining about the glow up everyone else got. We have a Sorcerer as well. Basically took the UA PT5 Modify Spell and made it a 7th level class feature that lets you prepare 1 additional spell that has one of the modifications on it. It can only be changed after a short or long rest. This way it feels more like something a wizard does in preparation and not just spontaneous metamagic.
I'm sadly disappointed. I haven't checked out the spell list yet, but the biggest good change I noticed was the ability to swap out cantrips.
Overall, I'm excited to try out the new content with my party, next month!
Not sure if it would be too powerful, but I would very much like either to get 1 ritual spell every 2 level or some ability to observe and learn a spell once every 2 long rest or something like this, this way you aren't always dependent on your GM to drop you scrolls or spellbooks.
I actually really like the wizard more than the sorcerer so i hope it's still as powerful as it used to. what is your favorite change of the wizard and what is your least favorite change of the wizard dungeon dudes?
It's a bit more powerful than the 2014 version, but many classes got a lot better so I think the gap got smaller. (according to other creators, like Treantmonk)
The fact that they didn't nerf Simulacrum hardly at all means that you will indeed still be bonkers after level 13. I personally hate that they half-assed nerfing it, and I wish they gave it more unique features instead of just leaving so many spells absurdly overpowered.
@@malmasterson3890 honestly I'm more upset that they nerfed counter spell as hard as they did
@douglaspope-gz1eq I don't really feel one way or the other about it. Nerfs needed to happen, but I definitely think they should've targeted other spells more. Making it so counterspell just always required you to make the check no matter what would've been the safe middle ground.
@@malmasterson3890 yeah that's true
One change I’m hoping happens for necromancer, is that you get healing effects from Grim harvest whenever one of your undead summons defeats something, not just you casting a new damaging spell.
The change to counterspell was so it didn't completely mess up a player's day when cast on them but then they kept banishment the same.
when did you last have Counterspell cast on you as a player? I get once a campaign so not really the end of the world plus I always had counter to resist. now it makes find traps a better choice.
Just to clarify, not having a Verbal requirement does not mean it is "unnoticeable", if it ONLY has a Verbal it would be, per Subtle Spell. But Somatic is still there as is Material.
For reference, the baseline of magic is something along the lines of Verbal - Gandalf's Voice, deep and unnatural, Somatic - Dr. Strange's glowing runes/hands, Material - pretty self explanatory.
Origin feats are underwhelming at best.
The new counterspell actually may still be worth taking. The rule states that they dont expend the spell slot if its successfully countered. I think that line was more so DMs can counterspell players and players dont feel as bad for "wasting a spell slot." In the new Monsters Manual, if they follow what they did in Monsters of the Multiverse, any creature with spellcasting doesnt technically use a spell slot. Those spells are written as "2/day. Burning Hands" or "1/Day. Wall of Force." So you can actually grind monsters out of resources
Ooo. Interesting. If that fully holds up this is great
Wizards still get a spell book with all their ritual spells handy. So across all caster, wizards will have a comparable number of spells available, unless the other classes take a feat. In which case, the Wizard can also take feats and increase their number of spells known as well. I'm sort of excited to play one, maybe an Abjuration Wizard with Shillelagh and Booming Blade.
Character concept: Kirkland Brand, a Wizard who is actually a Sorcerer with the Ritual Caster Feat
Thank you for these valuable explanations
The villain wizard might be packing glyph of warding to combine with force cage for their evil lair.
From what I have heard about the changes to the other spellcasters ... it seems to me, that the others basically catched up to where the wizard already was and because the wizard has the best spell list and the flexibility of a spellbook, its still king in terms of power.
My main concerns about the new Wizard are the fixed number of spells prepared and the nerfing of Counterspell. The former because it doesn't insentivise maximizing intelligence as much since you won't get another new spell prepared by doing so. This concern might be overblown since I haven't seen the chart showing how many can be prepared at each level. My concern with the new Counterspell is twofold. First, after about level 15 or so enemies typically get strong enough that unless you use Portent or something else to impose a significant penalty to their saving throws they are most likely going to succeed even if they roll a 5 or higher on the die. Second, if you Counterspell an enemy then there is nothing stopping them from trying to cast a spell next turn and gradually outlasting you since they will either cast the spell or have the spell slot available next turn. There is literally no incentive for them to not try to spam spells since either way they are at least at a net zero loss.
Its always 4 at level 1 and goes up significantly. Don’t think there’s any level where an old 20 Int Wizard would have more prepared spells than the new Wizard.
@@brilobox2 thank you very much. I thought that I might be concerned over nothing but wasn't sure.
Welcome back, Dudes! Overall, I get the feeling that the wizard as a class is closer to how it was in earlier versions of the game. Wizards can cast and arcane spells, and sorcerers are a prestige class that can cast fewer spells more often.
Hey Dungeon Dudes, love your videos! Are epic boons in 5e24 tied to class level or character level? Never saw an explanation on that so far.
The feats themselves are tied to level 19+ (DOES NOT say character level). The rules say that if you can choose a feat and are not instructed on a category you can pick any feat you qualify for.
So yes a Bard 5, Rogue 5, Ranger 5, Fighter 4 can pick up an Epic Boon.
We know this is true because the suggestions for play above lv 20 say that you earn extra feats and epic booms are appropriate. Also says nothing about character level and gives no special dispensation - they can get them because they are character level 19+
@@apjapki My man! Thank you very much for the answer!
So, I've always prefer the sorcerer over te wizzard, or even a Druid (which gives it more mele options). I do eventually want to play one, but I feel now I want to play sorcerer even more! Illusion wizzard may tempt me though (* love subtle spell!
They did not nerf the portent dice because the Diviner saw it coming and took action to prevent it.
I suspect the changes to Counterspell were done to benefit players. As in, it avoids the annoyance of enemy wizards countering player spells and wasting both their action and precious spell slots, which most players would probably got frustrated at.
We also haven't seen the new Monster Manual. Counterspell may be more common, but more importantly: Will monsters stick to the "spells per day" statblock that replaced the spell-slots on monsters in recent books? E.g. in recent books a spellcasting monster would just say something like: " may cast the following spells: (3/day) Fly, Fireball, Invisibility". These aren't spell slots. So is the "spell per day" still wasted with the new Counterspell?
Greetings! You two answered a question I had for a while. Namely: If a subclass (or feat, spell, etc), doesn't appear in the new PhB, does that mean:
A) It's currently pretty well-balanced as it is, and the 2014 version can stand?
B) They're probably going to revise it within the next couple of years, therefore slowly making it less backwards compatible.
For example, to play an Enchanter, as of the day the new PhB comes out: You use the 2024 Wizard bsse class, and the 2014 Enchanter Subclass. However, it sounds like they might be releasing a new book that has an Enchanter subclass in it?
I've been thinking about the idea that Sorcerers have gotten such a boost to their class that they are now the preeminant arcane caster and the wizard is second tier (wizards don't have as many spells prepared, can't use metamagic, don't have the new sorcerer's rage-like ability to increase their spell DCs). I'm not convinced that it actual play will reflect that sorcerers are just hands down better but let's assume for the moment that actual play will bear that out. Monty, what would you think of the following homebrew to at least make Wizards equal to sorcerers?
1. Allow Wizard spell DCs to increase by 1 on the cantrip advancement schedule. So +1 DC at 5th, +2 DC at 11th, +3 DC at 17th? This change, in my mind, would reflect that the Wizard is the class that really studies the RULES of magic, and has the intellect and discipline to cast CORRECTLY. Hermoinie Granger (Int based wizard) vs Harry Potter (Chr based sorcerer), if you will.
2. Take the new 5th level feature and loosen it up a bit. Allow Wizards to swap out spells from their spell book a few times a day, also on the cantrip improvement schedule, say. So you can do it once at 5th, twice at 11th, and 3 times at 17th. I would have it take a minute and require that they have their spell book with them.
The idea is that they are frantically flipping through their spellbook and quickly re-reading over the spell they need. After all, it normally only takes a little while after a long rest to prepare ALL of their spells. Taking 1 minute doesnt' seem completely unreasonable in the abstract, but more importantly in play it still feels like something that you can't do lightly, there's still a cost to the action, but it preserves that level of flexibility and honestly just seems like a fun image to play with.
Again, I think I'd like to actually play with the classes before making adjustments, but these ideas popped into my head when i watched this video and your video on the sorcerer.
I have the book now and I think the issue of Wizards not having as many prepared spells now, as compared to spell casting classes that get 'additional spells known/prepared', is incorrect. Wizards have a similar effect with their Ritual spells. There are 19 Ritual spells on the Wizard spell list and unlike any other class that uses Rituals, Wizards **don't have to have rituals prepared**. The Rituals don't progress in a uniformed manner, 2 per spell level, like say, Cleric Domain spells or Sorcerer subclass spells, but it very much evens out (while favoring the Wizard at lower levels).
And I'll point out that the Wizard ritual spell list is the best of the spell casting classes (and it was in 2014, too).
(I'd still like to innately boost their DCs, though. :D )
Big change you missed is that illusionists now cast minor illusion as a bonus action. In combat, they can go crazy with distractions and misdirections.
I will probably still use my changes to Counterspell. You make a spellcasting check with a DC 10+the spell level being countered. Upcasting it gives you a +1 to the check. But I have to check out the rest of it
seeing you guys recommend true strike is such a funny thing
I just realized... VENGER (from the '80s D&D cartoon) is on the cover of the 2024 DMG!!!
I feel like Wizards are still the best based off versatility alone. Everyone keeps forgetting the savant feature which gives wizards WAY more spells to choose from. Also higher level wizards still have the strongest spell list compared to sorcerer and warlock, and they're still the best ritual casters! But I will admit the gap is very small between them now which is great imo.
With these updates, we all know understand what Wizards must feel like in D&D worlds.
It feels like there is even less incentive to play wizard in a campaign that ends around level 12-ish, and unfortunately that’s a lot of them
Counter spell was one the most hype moments at a table. Rolling high enough to cancel a power word kill on my ranger fighting a lich is one my most memorble oneshot moments.
So what are we definitively calling this edition
uleset? DnD524?
5e and 5.5 here. So no
Yes
I'm so glad Force Cage requires concentration now! My DM put my character in a Force Cage for an entire boss fight, because he didn't want my character to take out his boss and had to intervene by fiat to break it early once the boss was dead and the whole cavern we were in started to collapse.
@10:22 the Bladesinger cantrips are NOT there? So are we talking about Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade?
@13:15 the Necromancer - I have only heard complaints about it because everyone has a vision of a zillion thrawls and you only can support like 5 as a PC. So that didn't change? Is the idea of "the Summoner" completely gone in 2024 (this question includes Druid)? Or at least Toned down to not really be as cool a choice as before?
I'm not sure if there ever was a Demon or Fae Summoner - or enough to support that as a main feature of a class.
Correct. You can still use them as printed in Tasha's, but these spell aren't in the 2024 PHB.
@@DungeonDudes lets take a shot every time you have to tell someone this.
@@DungeonDudes I wonder how that will work in DnD Beyond
You can easily have more than 5 undead with a Necromancer. The book in general has moved away from creatures summoning mass hordes out of nowhere like with Conjure Animals & Animate Objects. This is a net positive for the game as these spells were horrendously awful to deal with both for players & DM's despite them being strong. Should not be missed.
@@malmasterson3890 Yet, WILL be missed. I mean, one of the reason I went conjurer was for Conjure Elemental(s) and such...
We are still allowed to use silvery barbs tho right?
If the spell isn't replaced, then the old version is the most "current."
So use anything from Hogwarts.. ahem, Strixhaven.. that your table wants.
I'm so excited to hear about the new warlock