Wow, your video was spot on!! I am a retired Septa employee. I was the last person to be trained on the Budd M3 cars. I worked on the Market-Frankford El from 1996 to 1999. I was one of the first 3 employees to be transferred back to the bus in February 1999. We operators knew that the M4 cars were junk when they bought them. We warned Septa at the time, and they promptly ignored us. What would train crews know about train operations.
@@Aaron-uf3sl Yes (assuming you mean carriage dimensions and allowances), but given the opportunity to avoid MORE such problems, they have produced new ones. All the Metros should have been the same voltage (there are arguments re 25kV vs 1.5 kV) and physically compatible.
Philly area resident who rides and yells about SEPTA here, and this is honestly a fantastic video on the M4s, which is certainly the most disliked subway cars in service in the city at the moment. I have high hope for the Hitachi M5 sets, which according to one full-side render I saw suggests that they are going to be built as full six-car sets with full walk-through gangways, rather than married pairs. Honestly that's great for both higher capacity and hopefully for noise (since the current M4s are by far the noisiest cars on SEPTA's roster, especially in the tunneled section of the line), as well as removing the safety risk of walking from car to car (which people do all the time, even though there are announcements saying the end doors are for emergencies only). I do know that SEPTA is often constrained by the need to select the lowest cost bidder (which is what led to problems with the Silverliner V cars for the Regional Rail network due to contract disputes with Hyundai Rotem (who built them) and Bombardier (who were originally supposed to build them) as well as cracks found in the bogies of all of the cars, definitely akin to what happened with the M4s), but considering Hitachi has proven to know what they're doing with regard to subway cars, I'm reasonably confident that these will be the replacement this line needs. Please don't screw this one up SEPTA...
I have to disagree with you on the worst noise level. The worst noise level in the world has to be on the Philly BSL, experienced when waiting for a train on a local platform while an express goes by. On my first ride, while waiting on a local platform, I was wondering why the other people put their hands over their ears when they heard an express approaching. I soon found out why - the worst subway noise ever!. Eardrum shattering.
My daily commute is on Regional Rail and will say the Silver Liner 4s can be a nicer ride than the 5s simply because they have more seating. Really wish we could get all stations on RR to high level boarding, feel like that could at least get one of the major design restrains the network has (as well as making it less of a guessing game as to which doors will open at which stops)
Like the M-4's,the Silverliner V tendering process received two bidders: Hyundai Rotem (Then known as Railroad Technology System) and Kawasaki, Bombardier did not bid on that one. As for walking from car to car, that is quite surprising. SEPTA should be keeping those doors locked...
What a strange thing for Gladys to say. Australia absolutely does build trains, and has been doing so for a long time. There are trains being built right now in Queensland, Western Australia and Victoria.
Those weren't the only trains that Budd built that were called "M3s", they also built a type of railcar called the M1s and M3s aka Metropolitans for the LIRR and MNR, though they're of course very different from the M-3s built for the MFL. There's a preserved pair of M1s at the Railroad Museum of LI in Riverhead! The M1/3s were designed for 100 mph, but they only achieved 80 mph in service due to track and signaling limitations. The M1/3s even included support for ATO like PATCO, however, ATO was never used on those trains on the LIRR. The M1/3s were the catalyst of change for the LIRR and MNR systems as it required all stations in the electrified zone to be rebuilt for high-level boarding between 1966 and 1968 (stations in the LIRR's diesel zone wouldn't have high-level boarding until the 1990s for the C1s and C3s), and the increased power demand forced the LIRR to update its third rail power supply from 650 V DC to 750 V DC to take advantage of the car's performance. The M1s and the PATCO Speedline have a lot in common, besides ATO, they were both designed for commuter rail speeds (PATCO can reach a top speed of 105 km/h), both Budd rolling stock were built in 1968 (M3s on the other hand entered service in 1984), they both have commuter rail-style seating, and they both have similar motors built by General Electric. The PATCO ATO is an analog system that makes use of pulse code cab signaling supplied by Union Switch & Signal. The cab signals supply one of five different speeds (20 mph, 30 mph, 40 mph, 65 mph or full stop) and the on-board ATO gear supplies maximum acceleration or maximum braking force to reach that target speed. GE wasn't prepared for the constant rapid acceleration and deceleration of PATCO, this caused the motors to easily break down during its early days, with GE having to repeatedly work with PATCO's shops to overhaul motors. As mentioned, Comeng designed cars for the LIRR, the C1s! Basically, service into Manhattan is electric-only, and the LIRR wanted to both replace their aging diesel rolling stock and try to offer a one-seat ride for those on the non-electrified portions of the network to Penn Station, specifically testing it on the busy but partially electrified Port Jefferson Branch (not electrified between Huntington and Port Jefferson) due to political interest. The LIRR relied on Budd for its electric M1s and M3s, but by the 1980s, they were part of Thyssen and leaving the rail business, so LIRR looked for alternatives. Three groups approached them, Comeng/Mitsui, Alsthom, and Sumitomo/Nippon Sharyo. The LIRR favored Comeng's design. Originally, the LIRR wanted single-levels due to the troubled experience they had with the "double-decker" EMUs called the PRR MP70s that entered service in 1932 and featured a single-level with two levels of seats with a prototype seating 120 passengers in one car while the rest could sit 132 (which there's only one left that's preserved; the prototype at the Railroad Museum of LI in Riverhead), but Comeng convinced them to do bi-levels. Comeng's ability to fulfill the contract was of course jeopardized by the instability of Australian National Industries. In the end, Comeng sold the design of the C1 to Mitsui, who then engaged Tokyu Car Corporation to build the cars. They entered service in 1991 and after it was a success, based on feedback from passengers, the LIRR created an updated design called the C3 thanks to help from former Comeng engineers, with these built by Kawasaki. The C3s entered service in 1999 and when they did, the C1s retired as they were mechanically incompatible with the C3s. Ever since, the Cape Cod Central Railroad got their hands on C1s for their heritage railroad!
Hearing M3's not in reference to the revamped Metropolitans feels so weird to me! I still need to try the C3's someday. They're incredibly boxy looking, but their interior layout is very much in the style of Sydney's bilevel stock.
As a long time Septa rider I still remember the last of the M2 cars in 1969. I rode the M3 cars daily during my school days. The M4 cars I never knew were from Australia. I have ridden them and I found them very comfortable. I don’t like what is going to replace them. I hate full width cabs because I can’t look out the front of the train. Also the doors are usually locked between cars. The Market Frankford line is prone to derailments due to its worn tracks and wide gauge. One can’t bail if the train derails.
To add on to the history of the MFL: The El no longer dives underground at 23rd Street, it now does so via a portal at 44th Street in the Spruce Hill neighborhood, you can see where it dives underground just above where "South 46th Street" is labelled on the map at 1:05! Originally there was a bridge that carried the line across the Schuylkill River, however, as part of a program of railroad improvements undertaken by Philadelphia and the PRR, a new section of tunnel from 22nd Street to 46th Street was started in 1930, and so while a new bridge was built for automobile traffic, the line now goes under the Schuylkill. Funding ran out before it was completed, so construction wasn't resumed until 1947 and the current configuration opened in 1955, with the old elevated structure removed by 1956. In addition to extending the Market Street subway tunnel west to 46th Street, with new stations at 30th, 34th and 40th streets, a new trolley tunnel was built under Market, Ludlow and 36th streets and the former Woodland Avenue, leading to a new western portal at 40th Street. And between 1998 and 2003, they spent nearly 500 million to reconstruct the Frankford side between Frankford and the 2nd St portal, which also replaced the stations with higher boarding platforms and elevators
An interesting side note,the Budd cars,had the nickname of,"Almond Joys",due to the four domes,which mirrored the candy bars! Actually rode on them,sweet equipment! Pity,that the NYC MTA killed off Budd,St.Louis Car,and Pullman,and that lose of knowledge and capabilities,is as important to building to native conditions,as the Australian builders have to! Thanks for the insights,as it proves internationalism doesn't always deliver on its promises! Thank you 😇 😊!
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's why I wanna do my part to highlight the design talent we had/have here. I'll probably do a video talking about it sometime, but when Budd was shutting down, they directed a lot of transit agencies towards Comeng to buy cars (MBTA, NYC MTA, NJT, St. Louis Metrolink etc) so there's an alternate timeline not far from our own where Budd is replaced in the US market by Comeng.
@@CityConnectionsMedia Even better would have been the agencies forming their own joint subway/ commuter rail car manufacturer. Everything would be built "in house".
John Dunn really had a great book,I had Vol 3 to 5. It really paint the picture of How Comeng and Made in Australian rail car history. Comeng and Goninan also involve with lots of Project in our place, Hong Kong too. Both Phase 1 and 3 Light Rail Car built by them.Our MTR train also refurbish by Goninan. Comeng also pay a saddly prices when building our Phase 1 Light Rail train car. Those Car made by Comeng,After 35+ Years in services still quite strong compare to recent Chinese made car... They had refurbish in 2010 - 2013 by UGL.Its still quite strong on its structure But this project also contribuite a factor why Comeng has defunt and sold to ABB in 1990... It sad to see why Australian made train no longer in feasible future because of Labour and cost issues. John Dunn had mention this project through Vol 3 and Vol 5.
LIRR conductor here. I wasn’t expecting to see a connection between the M4s and the C1s here, let alone one as far away as Australia. The more you know!
Actually, the M3 fleet was (and is-as you can see from the preserved units) structurally sound when it was retired. Their retirement had nothing to do with worn-out bodies. It was more that everything ELSE was worn out. The electrical and mechanical systems were modern but not cutting edge when they debuted, which meant that they were fully antiquated by the time they retired, and sourcing spare parts going forwards promised to be challenging. But even that wasn't the final determining factor in their retirement. Your image from 12:10 depicting car 606 preserved at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum says it all: AIR CONDITIONING!!!! As a young child obsessed with trains, my dad took my brother and myself on a trip to 69th Street in the mid-1990s to see the sights. We rode the Market-Frankford out to the end of the line, and so I can speak from personal experience when I say that it was HOT. The fans in the roof meant for ventilation were not really effective at all. When the M4s arrived, there was a big celebration in the newspapers about the arrival of air-conditioning on the busiest transit line on SEPTA. Public pressure for air-conditioned equipment was growing. While you show the M3 cars preserved in museums, I seem to recall that there are at least a few more retained in work service and the like. I know that some M1 and M2 cars were kept for this purpose at least through the end of the 1970s. So, yes. The M3 was doing well structurally when it was retired. Budd Don't Break! Interestingly, I interned for a couple weeks in the summer of 2006. I was told that the Kawasaki BIV cars on the Broad Street line were due for replacement next after the trolleys. Obviously, that has changed, and the BIVs will remain for the foreseeable future. They are in better condition, and receive less wear and tear anyways.
Walkers/EDI/Downer have been building trains (locomotives, and multiple units) in Maryborough Qld for over a century. Brisbane and Perth use them, and the government is building a new production facility, with our new trains built by Downer
Australia makes better quality trains. True they are more expensive but they are built to last for our rough australian conditions, and they create jobs. In fact look at both the new intercity D sets in NSW and the NGR trains in QLD. What do they have in common? They are both foreign built to low quality and do not comply with Australian standards and in the end, cost us more because we basically had to mostly pull them apart and completely rebuild the train and rewire stuff to make them compliant or in otherwords, effectively building a whole new train. Meanwhile, look at the nsw V sets or the Melbourne Comengs or QLD earlier electric EMU. All are Australian made, been in service for over 4 decades and still going strong and reliable. These old Australian made beater trains just keep going no problem. Why? Because those workhorses were built to last in our extreme conditions
D-sets issue was with the RTBU's fit over the loss of the guard in its current role to a walking train attendant model. A design input that had no relevance on where the trains were made. Let's assess "quality" once we are allowed to ride on them, which will be...?
The old M-3 series, due to those Air Conditioner units (it gets hot and humid in Philly), are nicknamed "Almond Joys" after a popular candy previously made by the Peter Paul company, and currently by Hershey. Great Video.
It's always really amusing to hear out of towners try and pronounce Schuylkill, and yours was far from the worst I've heard. The correct pronunciation is "Skoo-kill" though I bet someone will say I'm wrong
G'day, I'm enjoying the video so far. You mentioned that Comeng Vol. 5 by John Dunn was a major source for this video. Just wanted to ask where you got access to the Comeng book? Did you get access to any other volumes? I've been looking for them everywhere, but can't get them because they're out of print. :(
I got them through my university library. Unfortunatley, unless you can get a second hand copy, that's the best place to find them right now. Trove has them listed, and with libraries you can find them in if you're interested. trove.nla.gov.au/search/category/books?keyword=history%20of%20Comeng Some libraries do let you read it online (State Library of Victoria, USYD) but you need to meet certain criteria to view it.
SEPTA is a chronically under funded agency with a weird structure that gives most its board seats to the surrounding suburban counties. I will give them a lot of credit though as it seems they are really trying to improve the system right now. They are also upgrading the trolly network use modern tram style cars which will greatly improve accessibility, but remove the fun of watching a new rider not know to step down to open the back doors. Some of the underground stations will need elevators installed to make the system fully assessable though, 19th St comes to mind. I'm not a super frequent rider of the Market Frankfort El (currently being rebranded as route L), but am looking forward to seeing the new cars in service and will find an excuse to ride it when they roll out. The Market Frankfort El is a vital backbone of the city's transit network, and I am hoping the new rolling stock (and fare gates) aren't the only thing the city and SEPTA are doing to fix the many issues with the route.
A hogy sounds similar to hoagie which is a sandwich on a streak roll or long roll. It's funny that a lot of real estate people when they are trying to sell a row home in Kensington that's very overpriced usually state that the EL is within walking distance or convenient to public transportation. Kensington Ave is an open drug market well actually it's improving but the drugged out people are moving into other areas in Kensington
@4:09 Surprised it was only between those two... I would have thought Kawasaki, Breda, or Bombardier might have considered bidding, but I guess they couldn't meet the specs... @8:56 It just might be a good way into the 2030's by the time enough of the new cars are delivered and the teething issues worked out such that the M-4's will be able to be retired... @12:10 Both of the preserved cars are the single units, of course! I do hope a pair of M-4's get preserved, but it's hard to say if one will...
That's my assumption too, or maybe it just wasn't mentioned in the book. So we've still got some time left. I'd love to go check them out IRL before they go. And yeah, we'll see. Here in Australia railway heritage is largely funded by government, so at the very least 1 set of a train type is preserved in a government collection. Not so much the case in the US. Maybe the RR museum of PA would be keen on preserving one.
@@CityConnectionsMedia they are more focused on mainline railroad equipment. More likely it would be the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, who also has one of the preserved M-3's...
Geez! I thought that these were hitachi units. Being from Philly, this is a surprise. (If you did not know these are being replaced in 4 years) I will miss them. (Edit:I call Philly bogies “hogies” do to septa being heavily intertwined with Wawa and even having a station named after them.)
NO SHE WAS COMPLETELY WRONG totally ignoring over 100years of successfull passenger train manufacturing in Newcastle at Goninan's Broadmeadow (UGL Limited). With her "wise" descision came the loss of over 1000 jobs basically overnight that was just to start with
1:08 As a Pennsylvanian, it's pronounced Skookul. It also varies in different regions of the state, so dont worry we cant agree on how to say it either. Its a Native American derived name like a lot of things in the state.
Wow, your video was spot on!! I am a retired Septa employee. I was the last person to be trained on the Budd M3 cars. I worked on the Market-Frankford El from 1996 to 1999. I was one of the first 3 employees to be transferred back to the bus in February 1999. We operators knew that the M4 cars were junk when they bought them. We warned Septa at the time, and they promptly ignored us. What would train crews know about train operations.
Between this and the last Taitset video, John Dunn’s been having a good week on here
That's just how good his books are!
Gladys left us a legacy of miss matched Metro voltages and rolling stock of different widths. Great video. Do more like this. 👍
No concept of it being a NETWORK, or of flexibility, or of future-proofing. Short term thinking in terms only of price.
Actually the issue of rolling stock being different widths stems back to the early 20th century at least.
@@Aaron-uf3sl Yes (assuming you mean carriage dimensions and allowances), but given the opportunity to avoid MORE such problems, they have produced new ones.
All the Metros should have been the same voltage (there are arguments re 25kV vs 1.5 kV) and physically compatible.
Philly area resident who rides and yells about SEPTA here, and this is honestly a fantastic video on the M4s, which is certainly the most disliked subway cars in service in the city at the moment. I have high hope for the Hitachi M5 sets, which according to one full-side render I saw suggests that they are going to be built as full six-car sets with full walk-through gangways, rather than married pairs. Honestly that's great for both higher capacity and hopefully for noise (since the current M4s are by far the noisiest cars on SEPTA's roster, especially in the tunneled section of the line), as well as removing the safety risk of walking from car to car (which people do all the time, even though there are announcements saying the end doors are for emergencies only).
I do know that SEPTA is often constrained by the need to select the lowest cost bidder (which is what led to problems with the Silverliner V cars for the Regional Rail network due to contract disputes with Hyundai Rotem (who built them) and Bombardier (who were originally supposed to build them) as well as cracks found in the bogies of all of the cars, definitely akin to what happened with the M4s), but considering Hitachi has proven to know what they're doing with regard to subway cars, I'm reasonably confident that these will be the replacement this line needs. Please don't screw this one up SEPTA...
excited to let my foamer flag fly in the next 5 years as both the trolleys and mfl get replaced
I have to disagree with you on the worst noise level. The worst noise level in the world has to be on the Philly BSL, experienced when waiting for a train on a local platform while an express goes by. On my first ride, while waiting on a local platform, I was wondering why the other people put their hands over their ears when they heard an express approaching. I soon found out why - the worst subway noise ever!. Eardrum shattering.
My daily commute is on Regional Rail and will say the Silver Liner 4s can be a nicer ride than the 5s simply because they have more seating. Really wish we could get all stations on RR to high level boarding, feel like that could at least get one of the major design restrains the network has (as well as making it less of a guessing game as to which doors will open at which stops)
No, please don't screw this one up, Hitachi...
Like the M-4's,the Silverliner V tendering process received two bidders: Hyundai Rotem (Then known as Railroad Technology System) and Kawasaki, Bombardier did not bid on that one. As for walking from car to car, that is quite surprising. SEPTA should be keeping those doors locked...
What a strange thing for Gladys to say. Australia absolutely does build trains, and has been doing so for a long time. There are trains being built right now in Queensland, Western Australia and Victoria.
Those weren't the only trains that Budd built that were called "M3s", they also built a type of railcar called the M1s and M3s aka Metropolitans for the LIRR and MNR, though they're of course very different from the M-3s built for the MFL. There's a preserved pair of M1s at the Railroad Museum of LI in Riverhead! The M1/3s were designed for 100 mph, but they only achieved 80 mph in service due to track and signaling limitations. The M1/3s even included support for ATO like PATCO, however, ATO was never used on those trains on the LIRR. The M1/3s were the catalyst of change for the LIRR and MNR systems as it required all stations in the electrified zone to be rebuilt for high-level boarding between 1966 and 1968 (stations in the LIRR's diesel zone wouldn't have high-level boarding until the 1990s for the C1s and C3s), and the increased power demand forced the LIRR to update its third rail power supply from 650 V DC to 750 V DC to take advantage of the car's performance. The M1s and the PATCO Speedline have a lot in common, besides ATO, they were both designed for commuter rail speeds (PATCO can reach a top speed of 105 km/h), both Budd rolling stock were built in 1968 (M3s on the other hand entered service in 1984), they both have commuter rail-style seating, and they both have similar motors built by General Electric. The PATCO ATO is an analog system that makes use of pulse code cab signaling supplied by Union Switch & Signal. The cab signals supply one of five different speeds (20 mph, 30 mph, 40 mph, 65 mph or full stop) and the on-board ATO gear supplies maximum acceleration or maximum braking force to reach that target speed. GE wasn't prepared for the constant rapid acceleration and deceleration of PATCO, this caused the motors to easily break down during its early days, with GE having to repeatedly work with PATCO's shops to overhaul motors.
As mentioned, Comeng designed cars for the LIRR, the C1s! Basically, service into Manhattan is electric-only, and the LIRR wanted to both replace their aging diesel rolling stock and try to offer a one-seat ride for those on the non-electrified portions of the network to Penn Station, specifically testing it on the busy but partially electrified Port Jefferson Branch (not electrified between Huntington and Port Jefferson) due to political interest. The LIRR relied on Budd for its electric M1s and M3s, but by the 1980s, they were part of Thyssen and leaving the rail business, so LIRR looked for alternatives. Three groups approached them, Comeng/Mitsui, Alsthom, and Sumitomo/Nippon Sharyo. The LIRR favored Comeng's design. Originally, the LIRR wanted single-levels due to the troubled experience they had with the "double-decker" EMUs called the PRR MP70s that entered service in 1932 and featured a single-level with two levels of seats with a prototype seating 120 passengers in one car while the rest could sit 132 (which there's only one left that's preserved; the prototype at the Railroad Museum of LI in Riverhead), but Comeng convinced them to do bi-levels. Comeng's ability to fulfill the contract was of course jeopardized by the instability of Australian National Industries. In the end, Comeng sold the design of the C1 to Mitsui, who then engaged Tokyu Car Corporation to build the cars. They entered service in 1991 and after it was a success, based on feedback from passengers, the LIRR created an updated design called the C3 thanks to help from former Comeng engineers, with these built by Kawasaki. The C3s entered service in 1999 and when they did, the C1s retired as they were mechanically incompatible with the C3s. Ever since, the Cape Cod Central Railroad got their hands on C1s for their heritage railroad!
Hearing M3's not in reference to the revamped Metropolitans feels so weird to me!
I still need to try the C3's someday. They're incredibly boxy looking, but their interior layout is very much in the style of Sydney's bilevel stock.
As a long time Septa rider I still remember the last of the M2 cars in 1969. I rode the M3 cars daily during my school days. The M4 cars I never knew were from Australia. I have ridden them and I found them very comfortable. I don’t like what is going to replace them. I hate full width cabs because I can’t look out the front of the train. Also the doors are usually locked between cars. The Market Frankford line is prone to derailments due to its worn tracks and wide gauge. One can’t bail if the train derails.
To add on to the history of the MFL: The El no longer dives underground at 23rd Street, it now does so via a portal at 44th Street in the Spruce Hill neighborhood, you can see where it dives underground just above where "South 46th Street" is labelled on the map at 1:05! Originally there was a bridge that carried the line across the Schuylkill River, however, as part of a program of railroad improvements undertaken by Philadelphia and the PRR, a new section of tunnel from 22nd Street to 46th Street was started in 1930, and so while a new bridge was built for automobile traffic, the line now goes under the Schuylkill. Funding ran out before it was completed, so construction wasn't resumed until 1947 and the current configuration opened in 1955, with the old elevated structure removed by 1956. In addition to extending the Market Street subway tunnel west to 46th Street, with new stations at 30th, 34th and 40th streets, a new trolley tunnel was built under Market, Ludlow and 36th streets and the former Woodland Avenue, leading to a new western portal at 40th Street. And between 1998 and 2003, they spent nearly 500 million to reconstruct the Frankford side between Frankford and the 2nd St portal, which also replaced the stations with higher boarding platforms and elevators
It's a great and interesting story on how the M4 cars came on, the Market-Frankfort El. I would never have guessed it was designed in Australia!
kuala lumper also had australian made trains on metro line 3 and 4 but those were retired years ago
Oooooh, they're going on my research list then...
They were made by walkers in Maryborough
An interesting side note,the Budd cars,had the nickname of,"Almond Joys",due to the four domes,which mirrored the candy bars! Actually rode on them,sweet equipment! Pity,that the NYC MTA killed off Budd,St.Louis Car,and Pullman,and that lose of knowledge and capabilities,is as important to building to native conditions,as the Australian builders have to! Thanks for the insights,as it proves internationalism doesn't always deliver on its promises! Thank you 😇 😊!
It was probably because the MTA did not order subway cars for a decade due to fiscal insolvency :(
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's why I wanna do my part to highlight the design talent we had/have here. I'll probably do a video talking about it sometime, but when Budd was shutting down, they directed a lot of transit agencies towards Comeng to buy cars (MBTA, NYC MTA, NJT, St. Louis Metrolink etc) so there's an alternate timeline not far from our own where Budd is replaced in the US market by Comeng.
@@CityConnectionsMedia Even better would have been the agencies forming their own joint subway/ commuter rail car manufacturer. Everything would be built "in house".
John Dunn really had a great book,I had Vol 3 to 5.
It really paint the picture of How Comeng and Made in Australian rail car history.
Comeng and Goninan also involve with lots of Project in our place, Hong Kong too.
Both Phase 1 and 3 Light Rail Car built by them.Our MTR train also refurbish by Goninan.
Comeng also pay a saddly prices when building our Phase 1 Light Rail train car.
Those Car made by Comeng,After 35+ Years in services still quite strong compare to recent Chinese made car...
They had refurbish in 2010 - 2013 by UGL.Its still quite strong on its structure
But this project also contribuite a factor why Comeng has defunt and sold to ABB in 1990...
It sad to see why Australian made train no longer in feasible future because of Labour and cost issues.
John Dunn had mention this project through Vol 3 and Vol 5.
1:09 it's pronounced "SKOO-kil"
it's hard :(
@@CityConnectionsMedia dont feel bad it took me like 2 years of living here to finally get the name down
@@FluridCube Born there. You pick it up at birth. Ha-ha.
I thought he did a fairly good job to say the river name for somebody outside the Philadelphia area.😊
1:09 "SKEW-kil" to my New England trained ears.
LIRR conductor here. I wasn’t expecting to see a connection between the M4s and the C1s here, let alone one as far away as Australia. The more you know!
Actually, the M3 fleet was (and is-as you can see from the preserved units) structurally sound when it was retired. Their retirement had nothing to do with worn-out bodies. It was more that everything ELSE was worn out. The electrical and mechanical systems were modern but not cutting edge when they debuted, which meant that they were fully antiquated by the time they retired, and sourcing spare parts going forwards promised to be challenging.
But even that wasn't the final determining factor in their retirement. Your image from 12:10 depicting car 606 preserved at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum says it all: AIR CONDITIONING!!!!
As a young child obsessed with trains, my dad took my brother and myself on a trip to 69th Street in the mid-1990s to see the sights. We rode the Market-Frankford out to the end of the line, and so I can speak from personal experience when I say that it was HOT. The fans in the roof meant for ventilation were not really effective at all. When the M4s arrived, there was a big celebration in the newspapers about the arrival of air-conditioning on the busiest transit line on SEPTA. Public pressure for air-conditioned equipment was growing.
While you show the M3 cars preserved in museums, I seem to recall that there are at least a few more retained in work service and the like. I know that some M1 and M2 cars were kept for this purpose at least through the end of the 1970s.
So, yes. The M3 was doing well structurally when it was retired. Budd Don't Break!
Interestingly, I interned for a couple weeks in the summer of 2006. I was told that the Kawasaki BIV cars on the Broad Street line were due for replacement next after the trolleys. Obviously, that has changed, and the BIVs will remain for the foreseeable future. They are in better condition, and receive less wear and tear anyways.
Walkers/EDI/Downer have been building trains (locomotives, and multiple units) in Maryborough Qld for over a century. Brisbane and Perth use them, and the government is building a new production facility, with our new trains built by Downer
unbelievable Comeng slander from Gladys... smh
The audacity of this b*tch 😮
Australia makes better quality trains. True they are more expensive but they are built to last for our rough australian conditions, and they create jobs. In fact look at both the new intercity D sets in NSW and the NGR trains in QLD. What do they have in common? They are both foreign built to low quality and do not comply with Australian standards and in the end, cost us more because we basically had to mostly pull them apart and completely rebuild the train and rewire stuff to make them compliant or in otherwords, effectively building a whole new train. Meanwhile, look at the nsw V sets or the Melbourne Comengs or QLD earlier electric EMU. All are Australian made, been in service for over 4 decades and still going strong and reliable. These old Australian made beater trains just keep going no problem. Why? Because those workhorses were built to last in our extreme conditions
D-sets issue was with the RTBU's fit over the loss of the guard in its current role to a walking train attendant model. A design input that had no relevance on where the trains were made. Let's assess "quality" once we are allowed to ride on them, which will be...?
As someone who grew up next to the El I would love to see a video about the M3s. Kind of interesting to hear that the M4s were Australian.
Maybe one day, but I'd rather leave it for someone local. I'm mostly trying to stick to Australian stuff :)
The old M-3 series, due to those Air Conditioner units (it gets hot and humid in Philly), are nicknamed "Almond Joys" after a popular candy previously made by the Peter Paul company, and currently by Hershey. Great Video.
Budds were not air conditioned.
Those were forced air fans, not HVAC
It's always really amusing to hear out of towners try and pronounce Schuylkill, and yours was far from the worst I've heard. The correct pronunciation is "Skoo-kill" though I bet someone will say I'm wrong
I havent even watched this yet, and this is already gonna be the best video in a good while.
G'day, I'm enjoying the video so far. You mentioned that Comeng Vol. 5 by John Dunn was a major source for this video. Just wanted to ask where you got access to the Comeng book? Did you get access to any other volumes?
I've been looking for them everywhere, but can't get them because they're out of print. :(
I got them through my university library. Unfortunatley, unless you can get a second hand copy, that's the best place to find them right now.
Trove has them listed, and with libraries you can find them in if you're interested. trove.nla.gov.au/search/category/books?keyword=history%20of%20Comeng
Some libraries do let you read it online (State Library of Victoria, USYD) but you need to meet certain criteria to view it.
SEPTA is a chronically under funded agency with a weird structure that gives most its board seats to the surrounding suburban counties. I will give them a lot of credit though as it seems they are really trying to improve the system right now. They are also upgrading the trolly network use modern tram style cars which will greatly improve accessibility, but remove the fun of watching a new rider not know to step down to open the back doors. Some of the underground stations will need elevators installed to make the system fully assessable though, 19th St comes to mind.
I'm not a super frequent rider of the Market Frankfort El (currently being rebranded as route L), but am looking forward to seeing the new cars in service and will find an excuse to ride it when they roll out. The Market Frankfort El is a vital backbone of the city's transit network, and I am hoping the new rolling stock (and fare gates) aren't the only thing the city and SEPTA are doing to fix the many issues with the route.
I have a good feeling that a lot of Philadelphians would not mind at all if the m4s got shipped back to Australia
wait i live in philly i never knew this
now you do :)
A hogy sounds similar to hoagie which is a sandwich on a streak roll or long roll.
It's funny that a lot of real estate people when they are trying to sell a row home in Kensington that's very overpriced usually state that the EL is within walking distance or convenient to public transportation.
Kensington Ave is an open drug market well actually it's improving but the drugged out people are moving into other areas in Kensington
@4:09 Surprised it was only between those two... I would have thought Kawasaki, Breda, or Bombardier might have considered bidding, but I guess they couldn't meet the specs... @8:56 It just might be a good way into the 2030's by the time enough of the new cars are delivered and the teething issues worked out such that the M-4's will be able to be retired... @12:10 Both of the preserved cars are the single units, of course! I do hope a pair of M-4's get preserved, but it's hard to say if one will...
That's my assumption too, or maybe it just wasn't mentioned in the book.
So we've still got some time left. I'd love to go check them out IRL before they go.
And yeah, we'll see. Here in Australia railway heritage is largely funded by government, so at the very least 1 set of a train type is preserved in a government collection. Not so much the case in the US. Maybe the RR museum of PA would be keen on preserving one.
@@CityConnectionsMedia they are more focused on mainline railroad equipment. More likely it would be the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, who also has one of the preserved M-3's...
For future reference: Schuylkill is pronounced SKOO-kull
Geez! I thought that these were hitachi units. Being from Philly, this is a surprise. (If you did not know these are being replaced in 4 years) I will miss them.
(Edit:I call Philly bogies “hogies” do to septa being heavily intertwined with Wawa and even having a station named after them.)
Very interesting.
Yes Australia built all it's steam locomotives except for the first ones as they didn't have the facilities but they built all the 35,36,37,38
Good video. A bobby pin or hair spay may be in order.
another city connections BANGER ❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
You don't set such a tight schedule and expect them not to have issues
I enjoyed it
It’s pronounced “Skoo-kill” 😁
NO SHE WAS COMPLETELY WRONG totally ignoring over 100years of successfull passenger train manufacturing in Newcastle at Goninan's Broadmeadow (UGL Limited). With her "wise" descision came the loss of over 1000 jobs basically overnight that was just to start with
1:08 As a Pennsylvanian, it's pronounced Skookul. It also varies in different regions of the state, so dont worry we cant agree on how to say it either. Its a Native American derived name like a lot of things in the state.