How Can an Old 408ci Windsor Make 500HP? - Engine Power S6, E7
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.พ. 2020
- We’ve got the tips and techniques for Stroking a 408 ci Windsor. So, what does it take to make big power?
PARTS USED IN THIS EPISODE:
ARP: Head Bolts
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Design Engineering, Inc. (DEI): Fuel Line Sleeve
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Eagle Specialty Products: Eagle 4340 I-Beam Rods
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Eagle Specialty Products: Eagle Forged 4340 Steel Crankshaft
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MAHLE Aftermarket: Mahle Powerpak Piston Kit
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Permatex: The Right Stuff
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Dupli-Color: Ford Gray DE1611
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Goodson Shop Supplies: Goodson 72" Potable Crank Polisher
Matco Tools: MATCO Tools are the Official Tool Supplier to Engine Power
MSC: Vectrax - 16 Inch Swing, 60 Inch Distance Between Centers, Geared Head Speed Control, 3 Phase Engine Lathe
The Industrial Depot: Tools, Hardware, and Shop Supplies - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
We'll continue to post these episodes here on TH-cam. If you can't wait for the rest of the build, visit our site to binge-watch: www.powernationtv.com/shows/engine-power
Any hope of a 351W EFI build? Specifically the one for 1996 Ford Bronco and F150? Thanks!
Why r all the fords built with dish pistons? I would love to see the same engine built with flat top 2 valve reliefs. See wt that does. All the chevys ive seen are always built with flat top or pop ups.
Q for u guys
would i be able to have u guys build me a motor??
I know this video is 2 years old but where is the complete parts list for this build. I can’t find it on your web page
Probably the most universal Ford engine you'll ever find to build anything from a high RPM small cubic inch up to 427 cubic torque maker.
There's so much that can be done with a 351W, and most people don't have a clue about it's potential.
The most overlooked engine I've seen in years.
For sure. Set of heads wakes them up big.
Can’t wait to build mine that I scored for 40$ complete
@@jayden4379
Study every build article you can find - you can do some really cool stuff pretty cheap!
@@Motor-City-Mike For sure man! I've got some how to's on my channel. My old man has been an engine builder for years, and he tells a few tips here and there on my vids. It's fun just listening to the old crazy guy!
@@BarnStangz Hey - I'm a crazy old man! LMAO!!!!
Jon's wisdom just made me better at port volume engineering........ i mean i work at Macy's fullfillment center but still, i understand it better
That intake manifold bead of RTV was so beautiful it put a tear in my eye
It was beautiful
🤣🤣
Keep building these old Ford and Chevy small and big block push rods, Love these videos! keeping the American dream alive and well
Murderfulpit76 agreed sir 🤙🏽
Eyehategod yeaeyea!
Beautiful polish on that crankshaft. I also found this engine build much more in depth than past videos. I like it
351w stroker is the best keeped secret that ls guys hate . I have 408s in 3 of my cars and it's the best bang for the buck.
Just get a 400m .
@@dielauwen why would you want that heavy POS with zero part support
@@Jkush463 do some research 400m is awesome
@@MikeBrown-dq2ge its just 400. no M
@@bigboreracing356I promises you they are not run against a 408w that's properly built. I have a turbo on mine and it puts down 1070 rwhp.
When John Kaase talks my ears perk up like a dog being called for dinner. The guy is a legend
He knows his stuff...
40+years ago I had a 1972 Ford Torino station wagon with a 351 cu. in. Cleveland engine that could pass anything but a gas station.
All you have to do is put a 400 ci / 4 in stroke crank in a Cleveland 4v 4bolt main block , massage the heads slightly , play with the solid cam specs a little bit and get 600+ hp at 6000rpm , the recipe was in the old version of the Ford pwer book . It's a fun ride , I put one in a fox body , BTW,, my grandfather had a Cleveland in a 72 galaxie and 20 mpg . Do you have a size 16 boot ???
Years ago I put a 351 Cleveland 2v heads in a 56 Ford Victoria. First I put an aluminum 4 barrel intake on and a Holley 600. I was 18 years old then and that was a lot of fun. Sure surprised a lot of Chevy guys.
Every time I watch a Windsor build I always see someone with a Cleveland comment. I love how even without the love aftermarket for so many years, the Cleveland still kicked the sbc and moparts and the sbf asses with original iron heads and minimal mods. Clevelands rock. My currant 359c with Trick Flow 225cc heads - 11:1 flat tops made 520hp@6300 and 453tq@5600 on engine dyno. Fun engine in my 70 Cougar. Wish I would have went 408 Cleveland because my heads and a solid roller will be in the 650hp range easy.
Going from many years of 351 4V Clevelands Torino GTs to now Torino Cobra 429 SCJ. My fuel consumption is probably going to go from miles per gallon to gallons per mile
@@shaggydogg630 those Cleveland's would scream with little upgrades
Wow I found a channel with no drama . Clean shop ! Proper mechanical engineering operations . Nice equipment . Good business .
Most excellent !
The 351W is a great foundation for a stroker. It has enough meat in the lower end to resist cracking and a tall enough deck for a decent length rod.
@@bigboreracing356 PLEASE tell us which OEM Small block is better!!! SMH
STREET RACER that doesn’t make the OEM block Junk.
if you need 1200 HP to out run mini vans....you may be an internet fan boi. Few OEM are going to handle 4 digits b/c it would raise the cost of the car, to be sold to 1% of the population who needs the block that thick. How many OEM blocks will last a year of 1200 hp? A terminator, a 2JZ, some LS engines (since they have a deep Y skirt design)--and most of those are going to require a piston change. But hey, what you made on a dyno and what you actually make at the rear wheels with a pump gas tune....aren't always the same.
And the streets are full of 15 second cars "making 1,000 hp on naws" and full of excuses for why they are having a slow night. Anyone who thinks a 351W is junk, is doing the knowledgable a favor by not running up the price. Please tell all your friends its junk so we can keep scoring 'em cheap. :)
Heads aren't that great. Higgins or CHI Clevor heads are the ticket.
@@bigboreracing356 Who is trying to make 4 digit power with 40 year old blocks?
Ive always loved the 351 Windsor engine.
The head air flow info at the end of the video is pretty cool stuff. The hard part is knowing how much to port the heads. There is a fine line there .
That intro voice always cracks me up.
Sundayy Sunday sundayy! Oh yeahh 😆🙈
True that. So annoying
It's a chain smoking 83 year old grandma.
The Jon Kaase lesson at the end is priceless and AWESOME!!! KAASE RULES!
Wow, what a motor! That graph is awesome!
This is the reason I subscribed to this Chanel so much knowledge it amazes me how much power that block put out great job you guys keep up the the good work. 💯
Nice work guys!!! And Jon Kaase is a great human being.
You guys do amazing presentations, I love this stuff.
This is a very nice naturally aspirated street engine. 1700 rpm between peak torque and peak horsepower on pump gas with a dual plane intake and all in before 6000 rpm. Still making 500 hp at 6500 when they shut it down. Looks like it did exactly what it was asked to do.
Not even interested in dealing with you.
Absolutely beautiful crankshaft!
Nice build and should be a good street engine. Interesting little schooling from Jon at the end. Dude knows what's up for sure. Looking forward to get my 408 on the engine run stand. Hopefully next month. It's been a slow build, lol!
Great build!I love fords.
This would be the perfect engine for my 67 Bronco!
You guys must REALLY love your jobs. How else could you make super good videos EVERY time!?
Man I'm telling you I like this show
Thanks really enjoyed that👍
Really interesting explaination about port size, port shape and mixture speed
Thanks mr kasse. You are the best anywhere!!!!
The man, the legend
great info from Kaase!
The crank looked good after micro polishing just be certain the ways of the lathe you used to perform this function look the same after thoroughly cleaning them when done or better yet, cover your ways with whatever’s handy and use magnets to hold in place! Keep up the awesome videos guys! Cheers
i have a 91 f150 with a 351w, fathers before me and had 430k before rebuilding motor, put heads, cam, and intake made 400hp lasted 100k since, one of the best engines!
I learn from you guys!!
These guys are like Doctors, would love to have half this skill and knowledge.
Love the videos. My Chevy Bud's are waking up to the power and trq these small blocks can make. And knowing some guys who run them with a mild build, are running 10.80's all day. And should add the Bowtie boys are getting rattled as they thought they had a better bullet. not! Keep those Ford builds coming it really saves time and money figuing out what combo to use.
2:57 some people actually suggest not using sealant on plugs that face the timing chain. The logic is that the oil drips will lube the timing chain for more life. I don't think that is a great idea.
3:22 Don't forget to rotate the crank on V-blocks and measure runout, especially if the crank is going to be reused. I have been told that you should never take the machinists word that the measurements are accurate. In addition, be sure to clean the chips out of the oil holes. Sometimes something will be left behind and quickly destroy a rebuilt engine.
3:35 I have seen Tomei make those multicolor bearings for Japanese cars, but I have never seen anybody else make that kind of bearing for any other kind of car.
7:59 Some engines leave the factory with "Select fit bearings" This means that the bearings are a few ten thousandths thicker or thinner. Metric engines have something similar. Car manufacturers are able to get closer to the ideal bearing clearance. It also compensates for the imperfections of mass production. If you measure a crank, and that was how your engine was built, you can get the exact bearing for the best performance. Also, this isn't just reserved for premium cars or high output engines. Many versions of the Toyota Corolla were built that way.
8:55 I remember being at an auto show, and some guys were commenting about the narrow rings on a cutaway engine. I think it was used in the most recent version of the Ford Fiesta. One guy saw the narrow piston rings and asked how that could possibly work. I said thanks to better alloys, better surface coatings, better oil, and better filters, make these rings possible. Those narrow rings put less pressure on cylinder bores increasing life even further. I said "All you lose is weight and friction." However, if you don't change your oil on schedule, the oil ring will sludge up quickly and ruin everything. Some Toyota engines used a narrow oil ring, called for 5000 mile oil changes on conventional oil, and that led to severe sludge and oil burning.
11:38 That seems like a big split duration. I thought that such big splits were only good when the intake port to exhaust port flow was terrible.
12:10 I like that the oil pump pickup has bolts to hold it in place. I have heard stories of people having to weld the pickup to the pump, because the interference fit wasn't good enough. In some cases the weld would fail. THat in mind, I thought that was limited to the SBC.
12:45 I wanted to see those combustion chambers. Sometimes Trick Flow makes them far better than OEM. Also, they sometimes angle the valves, and valve angles helped the Ford 351C outperform the Ford 351W in some situations.
16:43 If the intake manifold flow is the limiting factor, port it or at least gasket match it. It doesn't make much sense to have heads that make the most of the intake gasket bolted to a manifold that doesn't.
It depends on what they want to do in the futrue with the engine. that cam could be used with a power adder. it'll m ake them more episodes with less work.
Thos heads need an R series intake a dual plane is for like 170 180 heads and even then the ports dont match they only flow about 220 cfm out of the box. i bet the total flow dropped like 40+ CFM with everything bolted together.
Jon Kaase is the man. With big block fords. Love the Boss Nine heads. Would like to see some thing on his JKRE Billet 5.000 Ford Hemi Head.
Love the name!
Very good information thank you perfect I'm building a supercharged 408
Amazes me a small block ford makes this much power considering the fact that the airflow smashes into the cylinder wall rather then toward the center of the cylinder.
If these guys made 522hp, a really good engine builder could make 650hp easy with the same 408. Even more in a full race 15:1 compression nasty motor. Check out Rollin Thunderz 340 duster. They make over 1000 with it and run 8.0s. Small blocks can be insane depending how much you want to spend. Stay away from ford small blocks, the blocks crack in the valley at 650hp literally in half.
James Fowler has a very good point. But,,,,,,, 400 real horsepower ought to be plenty to move any car or pick up that someone drives around on the streets with.
I love this combination with the right heads and intake this motor can make big horsepower
goodness all the haters, i’ve pieced together a windsor with damm near stock parts put together correctly and made 450+hp on pump gas if you know what your doing and listen to what an engine tells you it’s a living breathing machine it knows what it wants
Lassi Kinnunen, yea i understand most of this there able to do is out of the question for most people and a budget build what i’m sayin is that any decent gear head with good sense can make a 351w come alive with 450ish hp with simple bolt on’s a 30 over bore flat top pistons a middle of the road cam and attention to details when it comes to tuning carb and intake setup
What heads did you go with?
Bradley Hanlon honestly your gonna think i’m bulshiting you but 1970 iron heads that were ported and polished motor came out of a Mercury cougar that was wrecked
I learn as much from the comments as from the article. I’m currently looking for a Chevy small block 400 and auto tranny for my 2003 Durango, but now I’m considering a Ford small block and old school auto tranny also.
i’m thinking of a complete w crate motor i’m thinking for the parts and shop cost it’s probably in same price just to order one with warranty
any suggestions ?
It's cool !!
That's what I'm looking for !!
I have a Performer RPM dual plane intake on my 427 stroker Windsor with AFR 205 heads. The Performer RPM intake on my motor has been ported to flow from the stock 230cfm per runner to 320+cfm per runner. Look forward to dyno day when my project is completed!
The restriction at the manifold is not caused by the manifold. Its caused by the turbulence within the intake port of the cylinder head. I've run into this a thousand times. You need to port match the manifold, gasket and cylinder head and then you need to be sure that the manifold port corners are polished and clearanced. Round the corners of the ports beneath the plane with 400 grit roller paper and finish it off with 800 grit to polish. You will pick up 100 cfm.
Your carb was way to big also. That motor may have more cubes but vacuum within the top end remains the same at peak rpm. That's why you are seeing the torque curve peak that early. Use a 650 with a slight rich jetting, and you should see around 560 on torque and around 550 on power.
Good job guys. Great motor.
Lol.your tellin jon kaase how to build engines.lmfao
Now I know why the 351 Cleveland was more popular then a Windsor. a bone stock 351 Cleveland leaving the factory 1970 will make more horsepower and torque than what that Windsor just did with aftermarket aluminum heads..the guys that designed the Cleveland are celebrating right now in the retirement homes they've been Kings all along LOL
Cleveland makes more power stock because of higher flowing heads. Cleveland was designed for cars, Windsor was designed for trucks
OL pat knows how to lay a bead of sealant!!
This is a dream show. I live in Australia and a used running 5 Ltd V8 will cost you $5k and a long crate 5.8 Ltd will cost $11 k upwards. Not a lot of upgrading done here.
It's about the same price here. If you click on the links to some of the parts listed , you'll find that these are NOT cheap builds whatsoever.
Jon Kaase is freaking awesome. He's so humble and gives credit to everyone but himself which is nice to see. Gale Banks is really smart and knows his stuff but he is constantly telling you that he is really smart and he knows his stuff whereas Kaase gives credit to everyone else but you know he is the true genius who elevates those around him.
Not to mention wins Engine Masters repeatedly.
it's interesting to see the difference with just the stroker bottom end but with the same heads/intake/cam. I think most people would immediately upgrade at least the cam if doing this. I'll be waiting to see upgrades from here.
I use a wide shoe string and Brasso metal polish, works perfectly, little more elbow grease but I’ve NEVER had a problem
I really liked the 351 Cleveland that they put in the mustangs at one time... but my favorite engine has always been the 426 Hemi by Dodge (charger/Challenger) in the old days with headers.
Jon Kaase is awesome🇺🇸
Hearing that guy a talking at the end was the best thing I've ever heard about air flow in a cylinder head
Great video and awesome engine. I had to laugh when they talked about rotating resistance and used a Chevy engine as their example. The thought that came to mind is that every Chevy I've ever tried to drive had a huge amount of rotating resistance as I pushed it off the road. LOL!! Sorry, I couldn't resist.
One of the longest infomercials I’ve ever seen.
That flat torque curve is impressive and would be fabulous on the street!
Kaase with all his money and knowledge and unbelievable skill.....and some scrap 2x4 chunks holding up cylinder heads. lol. awesome. Dude knows how to make serious power. Plus that 408 would be a killer with a bonkers cam. Lots more potential.
357ci 1970 351windsor iron block. Bored 30 over with ported gt-40 iron heads. 1.94 intake. 1.55 exhaust. With a mild cam. 390 horsepower and 430 foot pounds at the crank. Next build will be a 427 Lsx killer.
I have built 2 351w 1 in a 68 mustang the other in a 73 f100 rat truck . In my opinion they are the best ford made.
Try running it with a Trick Flow EFI single plane intake with a 38513 edelbrock side mount box intake upper. That's what I have, and it idles like stock. but the displacement is only 390 cubes with a Vortech supercharger.
I grew up building and racing sbc in the 60s, but no way would I put one in my 2200 lb. FF Cobra. My 427 cu.in. Windsor with solid roller, big heads is more than a handful . 0 to 100 and back to 0 in less than 11 seconds . OK I am old. Thanks Mike and Pat, keep me entertained.
Should I build one to replace the 331 in my 84 ranger?
short answer.... yes. i plan on eventually building a 427 to replace the 306 in my 83 ranger. but lets be honest.... at that point, might as well move to an aftermarket block right? hahahaha.
Awesome
For a build like this what kind of break in procedure do you guys use?
The 351w are good engines. I did an engine swap with one these engines in a restoration project and went from the v6 the truck originally had to 351w
Used to have a 68 mustang with a sleeper 351 Windsor 2v that was absolutely insane. Would love to recreate this engine it looks like crap and covered in sludge and it produced well over 300 probably close to 400 horsepower with a mere revamped 500 CFM truck carburetor. (Carb was disassembled and reassembled to intake manifold with double spacers and then bored. After the bore job carb was reassembled with customized jetting and blasted/enlarged fuel ports and passages especially where the accelerator pump was involved!. Then covered in dirty engine grease and slime again so nobody would know the difference. The engine had an Isky camshaft to pull it all together. What a nightmare! I sure miss that pony!
Mike for Space Jam WE NEED YOUR HELPPPP !
10:05 Awesome bugged out eyes face.
Yall need to have a vid on the 2jz, rb26, and 4g63 motors
I built a few 351 Windsor engines in my younger days. Never came close to this kind of horsepower. I wish I knew then what I learned now.
Would love to see john Kaase P-38's on this engine!!💪😎🤘
Impossible to find. I want a set so bad lol
Stroked Windsor 💪 my 410ci makes 562hp and 495lbft with 8:1 and pump gas. Do the math on that. These things are gold 🎯👌
Amish Mike is looking pretty slick with that haircut, the spring breeding season must be coming soon.
Would be interesting to see the difference with just an intake swap.
Yeah a dual plane dont belong on 225 Hi ports at all lol they need an R series single plane for that head.
Pls do a 350 tbi build
When are you guys going to do an Aussie Barra?
hi guys I have a Ford 347 with trick flow high Port cylinder heads forged rotating assembly trick flow stage 3 camshaft and I'm installing a turbo what should I start my base timing at? any advice would be appreciated
A 4" stroke should go right in that block with no clearance issues.
Not without notching the bottom cylinders for rod clearance.
I noticed you guys talk about what size curb you use but you never state if you remove the stock Jets and put in larger or smaller Jets that would be helpful to know if you're playing with jet size, and thank you for building other engines besides just Chevys I love to see these all forwards compete against brand new Chevy engine's
when pat busts out the old man glasses you know you getting facts.
thejunkmanlives hes a genius 😎
What kind of longevity would you get out of that motor
Oh Mike..I just died. "You got your seatbelt on!!*#" LMFAO😜🤭💪😎👍🍀🌳
*I bet using parabolic curving to adjust the increase of port turns will advance homogeneous O2/fuel flow and increased speed overall. Changing the gradients of that parabolic curving in relationship to harmonics of frequencies that can be registered with appropriate instrumentation(s) should yield the opportunity to identify "optimum" tribal secrets as proprietary trade-craft. Harmonics is everything. As Tesla. Applying appropriate algorithmic math to identify straight line "sighing" to prove "true" precision and accuracy of the developed theory as to "what and why" of identifying specific "optimum" adjustments work for given engine designs, then provides a patentable, trademarkable and copyrightable science that can be leased out under contract for chuckles. If I am right I would be glad to hear so.*
And what can you guys do with a 1979 Ford Cleveland 400 or 402
Is there a reason you went with the linked roller lifters, rather than using the OEM dog-bone and spider?
Pat needs a pocket extension to increase pen capacity
A fully built 351w brand new from tri star costs less than 5k with 380 HP. Thats actually pretty good
What heads they use?
Oh yippee, gravel voice has returned
Ford Y-Block Episode Please!
cool
I would really like to see a build on a mid 90’s 5.2 litre “318” magnum. Planning on doing a build myself but would be awesome to see some options to get maximum power and torque naturally aspirated. Then boosted, with either turbo or supercharged? Thanks I enjoy watching the show
Hey guys dont know if anyone has asked but, what's your guys thought about using copper spray for head gaskets?
19:40 for this reason modern engines have GDI. The airflow can fast as it likes round the curve and not have to worry about fuel separation.
GDI has a cooling effect on the cylinder charge allowing for increased compression ratio without pre-ignition, increase in compression ratio helps efficiency and power.
Try a duel intake manifold increases air intake to 1500cfm or 1800cfm.
My 509 block 400 chevy ( stroked to 427 cu inch) makes 660 hp & 640 tq . Built my a jet sprint engine builder here in Australia 🇦🇺. Not 2 shabby .
So whats everyone running roller lifter wise? Lunati ? Howard? Morrel? I got cheap link bars roller lifters in my 408W and its starting to make me nervous.
Looks like those 1.75" primary headers are are huge restriction on those heads. Exhaust exiting a large exhaust port and hitting a brick wall aka smaller header flange. Correct me if I'm wrong please.