FIXING the gable end returns. How not to highlight historic ignorance.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- The gable end return is one of the most common mess-ups on new homes today. Historically, it was handled properly but today it is messed up and now is one of the uglier details on new homes. Let's stop doing this. Brent goes through the issues and highlights some good solutions. Come check it out.
kit.co/brenthull01/my-library This kit library has links to books that will help you with classical and historical concepts and ideas. . This is associated with my Amazon acct. No extra cost to you.
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Another great video but it would be nice to see examples on it done right modern home rather than just photos of how it's done wrong and sketches of how to do it right. Maybe I'm just dense and don't quite understand.
I was just going to say this.
Great suggestion! I'll follow it up with more. Thanks.
Ok. Thanks.
There's not much info on this subject, I'm glad you shared this to us. I have a Gable end that needs to be done. I don't like the porkchop ends.
Was there ever a follow-up to this-specifically addressing pork chop/birdbox ends?@@BrentHull
Cornice returns are my number one pet peeve with modern construction. No one, absolutely no one does them correctly. And no one cares. Since no one cares it will never change. They have become so commonplace that crappy eve returns are simply accepted since no one knows any better.
I don’t think the problem is the roofing material, per se, it is the angle. The top of the return should be no steeper than 3:12 which I think is 12-15 degrees. You shouldn’t be able to see the roofing material from the ground. For a full gable end return (where the two returns continue towards each other and connect) I have seen in pattern books where a few courses of slate is used, I’m sure copper or lead would work as well.
The other thing you left out is that the cornice or gable or eave return turns 90 degrees and terminates into the wall. That is why it is called a return. The eave “returns” into the wall. I’ve often seen them cut flush leaving just a flat surface which is again quite wrong.
This is such a great topic. It would be great to see you you measure, layout and construct a correct eave return. I’ve seen a few drawings and articles in Fine Homebuilding and JLC but never any videos. Thanks.
Working on it. Thanks for watching.
The B in Brent Hull stands for Badass!
Haha. Thanks for watching.
Thank you. (A series called What’s Wrong With This House would never run out of subject matter LOL.)
Eaves, dormers, and columns are done so wrong you could fill up volumes with these three things alone.
Agreed!! Thanks
Word!
Great idea! I would laugh for weeks!
Wow, I need this, to learn about gable end returns on old farmhouses, and haven't seen too much information on doing it right. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Your videos are very important to educate everyone involved. The customer, Architect, and builder. It’s important that they understand the reason they did things like this and last longer.
Agreed. Thanks for watching.
Currently in the zoning portion of a rental build and I'm trying to find ways elevate it, at least somewhat, from something that's strictly cheap and quick.
Getting a lot from you videos, the implementation will be the harder part, but at least I can be pointed in the right direction.
Noted, how to video coming soon.
Hello Brent, thank you for the video, I have found that it's a straight up street fight with builders and framers as most builders have come into the business with a production building background where these types of details are not acknowledged or put into practice. videos like this help get the client on board with the vision.
Amen! It is a street fight. Please keep battling.
Thank you! This is a critical detail done improperly by the masses. This explanation is excellent.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Very informative and many thanks. My 1918 era home has nine pair of gable returns with the metal rain sheds I can now explain and make sure they are restored properly.
Great to hear! Good luck!
It would be nice to see that flashing detail in practice. I’m still unsure on how water doesn’t sit on the top and rot everything
I had that same thought!
Coming soon. Thanks.
@@BrentHull fantastic thank you sir!!
I see 1 million dollar + homes from “reputable builders” and they lack so much detail and have horrible eye sores like those shingles returns. Thank you for this video.
Agreed. Thanks.
I just did an addition on an 1880s home, I spent hours driving around and googling so I could get this feature correct. Looks like I got pretty close. Thank you for this video.
Find any good articles we should to know about? There is minimal available on how to do them correctly. Lots of YT vids about how to do pork chops🙄.
So glad to hear! Good job researching the past.
I'll look.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 where I live there are thousands of 1840s-1900s homes, so I drove around and photographed. The trick is to subtract all the handyman special and budget fixes that have happened to all these homes. People just don’t know how to fix them and won’t pay to have it done right. The critical thing is to have the return on the fascia and a generous frieze to wrap around to support the return. You could leave it there for a modern look or install a “biggish” crown where the frieze meets the soffit and wrap that around the base of the return (to length you have wrapped the frieze).
Yes!!! As somebody who doesn’t work in the field but appreciates good architecture and is in the early stages of building our home, I can’t thank you enough for helping me understand this! I see the pork chops and the weird little roofs everywhere and it is my biggest pet peeve by far, but I never knew what it was called (I’ve been calling them “stupid little triangles” up until now haha) until now! I now know what to tell my builder what it is exactly I don’t want him to do haha thank you!
Absolutely!! Good luck.
This such important to know and you explain it so well. Can you tell me what you call the wood piece on a gable end that you see in Colonial Williamsburg? It looks like a fancy pork chop (sort of) and how would you classify those types of ends? I only see them there, for the most part. Thank you Brent. I love your videos.
In the mid-atlantic region, like Colonial Williamsburg they built and used scalloped or molded cornice returns.
@@BrentHull Well that's interesting and good to know where/why they were used. Very helpful information. Thank you so much! Happy Thanksgiving!
I struggled with this while building my house. Finding builders who understand what I wanted was impossible on my budget.
Keep the videos coming. You will change minds.
Thanks for the encouragement. I will.
Love you brother. Show us the right way in more pics, minus the sharpie scribbles. I get what you're saying, sort of, but would've liked to see a series of "right way" examples. ...I just want to know how to cut these details and I'll do it like that.
Ok, thanks for the info.
Hi Brent, II found this video very informative. Can you comment on gable returns at Colonial Williamsburg, they don't seem to follow the details you described.
True, and thanks. Yes, there is a mid-atlantic tradition of using a shaped board to catch the eave on their homes. It is unique and charming.
I enjoyed the video but I wish you had given a couple of mathematical examples on how to get the proportions right when designing a gable return. For example, if your fascia is 8” high these are the dimensions of all the corresponding pieces, etc. Also, if you’re not building a classically styled house (just a ranch or something even simpler like a cabin) can you change the proportions or leave out certain parts in order to have a really simple gable return detail?
Good point! Yes, the proportions and details will vary based on the style of the house and the type of house. Obviously a cabin does not get as formal a return as a city house. The cabin may not even get one. Typically we are trying to follow and match historic precedent. Thanks.
Here's a video I'm sure you will like about the design and construction of the Roman Pantheon. I'm not sure about the narrator's voice though - I can't tell if it's computer generated or just a weird accent lol.
th-cam.com/video/JW5-7qGPl6U/w-d-xo.html
Haha, thanks I'll check it out.
I was wondering why builders add brick flashing and the gable returns have shingles. Buyers pay extra for that and it looks very bad.
Agreed! Thanks .
Brent, thank you for this and for all of your videos; I've learned a lot as a homeowner with an interest in historical architecture.
I have a 1927 house which I'm trying to return to its former glory. It has big, shingled-over gable returns that I believe are original to the house. They're much easier on the eye than the modern examples you showed in this video, but they do break the classical rules. In your learned opinion, should I get them flattened when my roof is replaced in the next month or two? Or does originality trump doctrinal purity?
p.s. thanks for the tip on half-round gutters; I was already leaning in that direction but this seals the deal.
Would love to see a picture to confirm. But I doubt they are original to the house. If you can send a pic to info@brenthull.com I'll take a look. Just note this conversation when you send it over. Thanks.
@@BrentHull Done! Thanks so much for lending your expertise.
Not everything old was done right.
What is the proper green to use for exterior trim and shutters? I have a 1934 sort of farmhouse style house, I put a coat of hunter green on the window trim and it seems to dark to me... am I wrong? I'm wanting that classic green like the old window shades and trim
I think Essex green is the dark green that looks almost black. We may be talking about 2 different things. I've seen a lot of different painted shutters that really make a difference from Blue to yellow to red. I'm not sure there is something perfect. Good luck.
Right
noted.
what books can i buy that teach this old great carpentry ???
Well, its a collection of historic books that show details like this but don't necessarily teach how. I did a video on building a library for builders. You might start there. Thx
on your channel@@BrentHull
We like to call them "eyebrow returns" or "bird perches"
I'll take that, as long as you don't' shingle them. Thanks.
I have always instinctively disliked eyebrows and I never knew why
@@shinnick22 I agree, I don't care for that look either. But I certainly agree with Brent Hull that they should be done correctly on additions/restoration.
I like the Bungalow/ ranch look of long overhangs which are the same pitch as the roof. Bungalow would have exposed rafter tails, and ranch would be smooth plywood etc.
Those shingled gable end returns are one of the ugliest details that someone could possibly dream up.
But, I disagree about the porkchop end being completely tossed out. Sure, it’s not right for these classical elements, but there’s nothing wrong with it on a craftsman or other more contemporary house style. Would have been good to talk about where that feature does make sense.
Thanks and yes, I'll revisit the subject. Quick answer is that it is the lazy solution for a gable end. There is not historic precedent. Thanks.
Benefit #5 it gives a place for the birds to raise there babies.
Haha. Thanks
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Forget about water, what about birds sitting there?
?? Ignore at your own peril.
@@BrentHull I'm not sure if we understand each other - english is not my native language. About porkchop end and roofing the return you said that its ugly and not needed for protection against rain. But rain is not the only thing that influences people's decisions on this matter. Horizontal flat space left there invites birds to sit there. Birds left their poops so it also looks bad. Should we ignore that?
Thanks! I really would like it if you stopped using a video background to frame the photographs. Very distracting.
I agree,
panning shots on the details make them hard to see/understand sometimes
Noted, I'll pass it along.
I love your content, but unfortunately agree with the over-handled editing of the background.