Saber guy is really underestimating the range of the longsword here. A lot of exchanges where he seemingly thought he retreated out of range (didn't even try to parry) and got sniped.
Just reflexively dodging as if he was fighting another saber (probably what he is used to). He should be doing the opposite and stepping inside the reach - especially if he had a buckler like some other comments suggested.
It wasn't about evening the odds. The sabre fencer wanted to pit these mismatched weapons together in two fights. This is the first. In the second I then use a messer against him using a longsword.
It's not about making a fair fight, but an exhibition match up of two common weapons in a way they were commonly used. On top of this, sabres in Northern Europe and the West more widely were very rarely used with bucklers or any offhand weapon at all, and so this is the typical manner for this sabre to be used seeing as we are using Western European sabres and systems. Even if we step back to the era of the longsword where the dussack was used, a weapon quite similar to the sabre in this video, it was typically used solo. We do sometimes pair bucklers with sabres for fun and because it was of course more popular in other parts of the world, but it was never common for military sabre use in the West or Northern Europe.
I was taught to put my off-hand at the ches, close to the heart in sabre fencing and not to put it on the hips. Is that a question of style or is there another reason for putting the off-hand on the hip?
Different systems changed the position. In general it's safer to keep it at the hip unless you have A reason to move it. At the heart or chest makes it easier to hit, but also easier to bring it into play. When using messer I tend to keep it higher and ready for use.
Different systems and authors in different eras vary. Overall though the hand on or nearby the hip is what you will find most commonly in military sabre systems, not only to keep the offhand out of the way, but also because it is sometimes needed to be there to hold and support the scabbard/sword belt, which is also depicted in a number of manuals. The hand raised beside the head as is typical in smallsword was also a common practice in the 18th century broadsword and just into the sabre era, though it quickly fell from favour in the late 18th century.
Great video. The difference in blade length makes a huge impact. How might a sabre fencer (a sabreur? Is that a word?) approach a fight against longer weapons like longswords or a rapier? Also, how would a more developed handguard like a half basket hilt affect the fight?
Out of interest. I (the guy with the longsword) did the same fight right after this video using a messer against Jordan. We flipped places, to keep the fights fair. I found the messer to be a beast against the longsword, with either foot froward. The video should be coming shortly.
Messer, which I teach at my local club, is a fun, nasty little monster of weapon against a wide variety of weapons. I have used it against a saber and longswords. It works surprisingly well against both. Especially once you are in close.
The hanging guard counters longswords so well, when uses right handed. The problem here is the left hander likes to use the hanging guard but it covers none of the common cutting angles of the right handed longsword fencer. Extra hand protection doesn't effect things massively in terms of style, just a ;little more protection against snipes and in binds as one would expect. So an advantage but without massively altering the methods.
Ive got an off-topic question for Nick - Do the Thokk Weaponmaster gloves fit inside the Blackfencer Swept-hilt sidesword? I've got the sword and im trying to figure out what gloves to get.
Yes they do and I commonly use that combination of glove and sidesword too. Though more recently I have been using the HFA Black Prince for this job, but both are good options. In tact those two are by far the best sidesword gloves on the market right now.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing thanks so much for the answer. If I had the extra hundred dollars I'd get the Black Princes for sure, they look incredible. There's a local shop in the US that imports gear and they've got some Thokks in stock in my size so I'll go with those for now.
Nice, good luck, they have been a game changer for sidesword, being really the first glove to really do the job well. It's a very difficult sword to make gloves work for, requiring high protection but also having to work within such a complex guard/grip style.
I hate facing longsword with either sabre or broadsword; when I do, I tend to use a targe in the offhand which I find makes the match much more even. All the same, I find that a strong defence is essential against a longsword, only risking offending my opponent when their blade is safely out of the way. All that being said, the sabreur had a very nice run in the third quarter.
With regards to the thrusts, Jordan has a fast follow-up cut, even if you land a thrust, making a double more likely for me. So they have to be used sparingly. Also, being left-handed he makes my preferred thrusts more dangerous to use.
@@jaketheasianguy3307 I sometimes tap on the floor as bait to encourage a high strike . It's intended to annoy :-) And appears to work even on some viewers!
@ I personally hate it, I know it's not the same but I've seen some folks just hitting the ground like they're a blind person, it accomplishes nothing and just damages a good floor
At some point your club needs to host a fashion contest.
You’re not wrong!
I don't know if you mean the _bonk_ or the followers
True, these are some really fancy looking fencing gear 👍
Saber guy is really underestimating the range of the longsword here. A lot of exchanges where he seemingly thought he retreated out of range (didn't even try to parry) and got sniped.
Just reflexively dodging as if he was fighting another saber (probably what he is used to). He should be doing the opposite and stepping inside the reach - especially if he had a buckler like some other comments suggested.
IMO the saber fighter should have a buckler in his off hand to even up the odds.
It wasn't about evening the odds. The sabre fencer wanted to pit these mismatched weapons together in two fights. This is the first. In the second I then use a messer against him using a longsword.
It's not about making a fair fight, but an exhibition match up of two common weapons in a way they were commonly used. On top of this, sabres in Northern Europe and the West more widely were very rarely used with bucklers or any offhand weapon at all, and so this is the typical manner for this sabre to be used seeing as we are using Western European sabres and systems. Even if we step back to the era of the longsword where the dussack was used, a weapon quite similar to the sabre in this video, it was typically used solo. We do sometimes pair bucklers with sabres for fun and because it was of course more popular in other parts of the world, but it was never common for military sabre use in the West or Northern Europe.
I NEED a jacket like the fencer with the long sword in the beginning!!! Where can I get one?
Superior Fencing. It's the mercenary jacket, in brocade material.
Some excellent exchanges in there. 👍
Nice! Sabre vs katana is also a fun match. And that jacket is pertty!
Nice sparing.
I was taught to put my off-hand at the ches, close to the heart in sabre fencing and not to put it on the hips.
Is that a question of style or is there another reason for putting the off-hand on the hip?
Different systems changed the position. In general it's safer to keep it at the hip unless you have A reason to move it. At the heart or chest makes it easier to hit, but also easier to bring it into play. When using messer I tend to keep it higher and ready for use.
Different systems and authors in different eras vary. Overall though the hand on or nearby the hip is what you will find most commonly in military sabre systems, not only to keep the offhand out of the way, but also because it is sometimes needed to be there to hold and support the scabbard/sword belt, which is also depicted in a number of manuals. The hand raised beside the head as is typical in smallsword was also a common practice in the 18th century broadsword and just into the sabre era, though it quickly fell from favour in the late 18th century.
Great video. The difference in blade length makes a huge impact. How might a sabre fencer (a sabreur? Is that a word?) approach a fight against longer weapons like longswords or a rapier? Also, how would a more developed handguard like a half basket hilt affect the fight?
I would recommend switching to a right sided stance. He is also over extended. Probably go for a medium guard.
Out of interest. I (the guy with the longsword) did the same fight right after this video using a messer against Jordan. We flipped places, to keep the fights fair. I found the messer to be a beast against the longsword, with either foot froward. The video should be coming shortly.
Messer, which I teach at my local club, is a fun, nasty little monster of weapon against a wide variety of weapons.
I have used it against a saber and longswords. It works surprisingly well against both. Especially once you are in close.
The hanging guard counters longswords so well, when uses right handed. The problem here is the left hander likes to use the hanging guard but it covers none of the common cutting angles of the right handed longsword fencer. Extra hand protection doesn't effect things massively in terms of style, just a ;little more protection against snipes and in binds as one would expect. So an advantage but without massively altering the methods.
@@bentrieschmann Next to play with a big 2 handed Kriegsmesser for even more beastly fun!
Sabre bro seemed like a much better sport than longsword
Ive got an off-topic question for Nick - Do the Thokk Weaponmaster gloves fit inside the Blackfencer Swept-hilt sidesword? I've got the sword and im trying to figure out what gloves to get.
Yes they do and I commonly use that combination of glove and sidesword too. Though more recently I have been using the HFA Black Prince for this job, but both are good options. In tact those two are by far the best sidesword gloves on the market right now.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing thanks so much for the answer. If I had the extra hundred dollars I'd get the Black Princes for sure, they look incredible.
There's a local shop in the US that imports gear and they've got some Thokks in stock in my size so I'll go with those for now.
Nice, good luck, they have been a game changer for sidesword, being really the first glove to really do the job well. It's a very difficult sword to make gloves work for, requiring high protection but also having to work within such a complex guard/grip style.
@ Thanks a bunch! I'm very excited to get started with it.
@MichaelGThomas 1st off, great video. 2nd what system is a saberist primarily studying, out of curiosity.
Roworth in our school, but he also practices earlier German messer and longsword, and smattering of others to create the 'Jordan Style'.
That is cool. I will have to find Roworth.
Long sword is using the length quite well, makes for good watching
I hate facing longsword with either sabre or broadsword; when I do, I tend to use a targe in the offhand which I find makes the match much more even. All the same, I find that a strong defence is essential against a longsword, only risking offending my opponent when their blade is safely out of the way. All that being said, the sabreur had a very nice run in the third quarter.
the drip
I expected more thrusts from the longsword guy. And I fkin hate when he hits the floor with the tip
With regards to the thrusts, Jordan has a fast follow-up cut, even if you land a thrust, making a double more likely for me. So they have to be used sparingly. Also, being left-handed he makes my preferred thrusts more dangerous to use.
Why is it bad though ? He only rested the tip on it, not swung the sword to the ground.
@@jaketheasianguy3307 I sometimes tap on the floor as bait to encourage a high strike . It's intended to annoy :-) And appears to work even on some viewers!
@ I personally hate it, I know it's not the same but I've seen some folks just hitting the ground like they're a blind person, it accomplishes nothing and just damages a good floor
@@nmc-ic6tw It's lightly resting on the ground, intentionally to bait my opponent.
Nice gear! Are those the superfen pluderhosen and merc jacket?
They are indeed.