When she says "let's talk frankly, Newland..." my blood goes cold, the world hangs by a thread. "I don't know, you might, it would be one way to settle the question" is such a real situation. So much power in her doe eyes. What a scene.
He treated May terrible. She gave him and out and still insisted he want to marry her. Then cries how miserable and bored he is later and wants to leave and feels trapped when she tells him sorry dude I'm with child. He had is chance and blames everyone but himself. So annoying.
He wasn't "bored" enough not to knock her up, it seems. He's such trash, lol. Daniel Day Lewis played this character wonderfully, all his reactions and speeches restrained and weak.
Newland is essentially a coward. He's certain he's like the profound passionate men who arrive in the poetry & novels he receives each month, but when passion finds him in real life he runs the other way. Newland doesn't have the Countess' courage--he discovers he's made for a small safe life, with his passions kept in tidy rows in his library.
Typical man! Wants to be wild running and scratches at the door. Has chance to run outside and runs back inside like a little scared housecat - back to wifey!
Fun part of reading the book is just how much Newland projects that May is empty headed and naive. Like he at one point literally thinks that he will have to teach her about things, all things he likes of course. And the signs were literally all there in his face and he ignored them.
Indeed, I remember him saying in the movie, that he was looking forward to enlightening his wife, but she didn't have the faintest notion she needed to be enlightened. 😉 When he thought he was going to start traveling the world, Japan, to be precise, May showed him just how smart she was. 😉
May is so much smarter than he gives her credit for. This moment, and near the end when she delivers her news. She stands, towering over him, and wow… May is no dummy.
May, I think, has a sort of swarm intelligence coming from accepting the norms of her swarm and accepting her place within it. It gives her the wisdom of all the generations of women preceding her but it takese her individuality in return. To get this sort of intelligence you need to give up your individual mind and way of thinking. She makes that exchange and Madame Olenska doesn''t, whereas poor Archer gets stuck somewhere in the middle of the process which seems to be the least profitable way of all.
@@joannaplichta9677It's a bit different in the book, because May's grandmother you learn had a shameful father who left the family and her family had to work hard to get high in society again and get good marriages. So it's kind of obvious that May and her female relatives have been taught to keep up appearances as much as they can but also do what they want and manipulate it to be seen as not so bad publically. Newland knew all of this and honestly thought he was smarter than he actually was. Ellen was too naive to understand her situation and position in society, especially after she returned.
@@Ashbrash1998I don’t think May was manipulative in any way. She has every right to be impregnated by her husband, and Ellen did the right thing by leaving them alone.
I recall reading the novel and seeing the movie and how Newland was eager to take the role of a 'teacher' to May. And later on, during his 'bleak' hours, he assumed there was 'nothing' behind her, like she had zero thoughts. But this small scene shows that May is not 'empty' inside, she has substance but her convention taught her to withhold her true self from Newland.
This is a brilliant way of showing how Newland projects on his women - imagining the Countess Olenska talking to him while in a sleigh with horses and wearing fur etc while he falsely believes that May is all innocence and notices nothing. May plays the devastating nature of her news to both Newland and the Countess perfectly, The saddest part is the end - Newland has all the freedom he once wanted - yet he literally can’t see the Countess even though her windows are open (Parisian flat).
Absolutely. I always thought most people see her as a victim and them as star-crossed lovers... this is now what the story is about. Her woe is me schtick is very selfish.
The poor woman wants a friend, a friend who is willing to at least hear about some of what she went through, which no one else is willing to do. There are a lot of similarities between Ellen and Wharton, we aren't meant to think she's a monster.
She was young and trapped in a bad marriage. She wanted to be happy and live her life - she didn’t want to believe that it was no longer possible for her. Her life was doomed at this point. It was the unfortunate circumstance of many a young women
One of Scorsese's greatest films. I know people love his late70s/early80s films, but for me that blink of the eye in the early 90s when he did Goodfellas, The Age of Innocence & Casino is Scorsese at the glorious height of his talent. The novel is Edith Wharton's triumph of course, so Scorsese is working from a remarkable text, but he adds so many tiny visual details that make the film equally thrilling. Just that single shot at 6:04 where you realize Newland is reading Rossetti's ode to passion (Sonnet vii) but then runs...to May, lol, tells you everything about him & how he's going to live his life. The Countess Olenska is one of the most exquisite & profound characters Edith Wharton ever created, & Michelle Pfeiffer inhabits her so completely. Wondrous performance.
I don’t think the Countess Olenska ever wanted to be his wife. She did not want to be a wife at all. She was all about the chase, the hard to get types. It was the thrill. And Newland was kind of a selfish jerk. Like most men of that era.
From reading the book, they only meet about 5 times it seems. He is going to throw away his life with May for an infatuation for someone he really didn’t know.
I think that’s the larger criticism of the male view of woman as a thing of desire while also wanting the act of corruption and the innocence. The two cannot exist at the same time and everyone is miserable for it.
For me, he threw me under the bus. Talk about a deal breaker. It just recently happened so it still hurts. He was a liar too and only cared about himself.
He is a liar and I’m questioning myself if I should even feel bad for him given the fact that May presented her an option that wouldn’t even cause much damage if he had just been honest and cancelled the engagement.
I love when May stuck the father to Archer with letter from Olenska. The cherry on the top is the farewell dinner. Whole troop against Archer and Olenska. The coward and the bed hopping countess. So happy.
It seemed like the Countess was interested only in her conquests with men. She didn't care that Newland was unavailable or that his work was important. She wanted her own way... Her hypocrisy is evident when she asks " What about May?" She couldn't give a shit about her! She had to be with a man or she would be too lonely...
He ruined an innocent person's happiness forever. Soon after marriage and after getting her pregnant, he let her know he was bored and would have abandoned her but is staying because of the child.
@@AMW992 it was not a bit noble of him. Him staying for the sake of his family was the bare minimum. he knocked her up because he was a coward and stayed because he had to it was his responsibility.
What a whimsy Newland is! She gave him a way out and that was precisely the moment he should have told her about Ellen. But this would mean getting out of his comfort zone 😂😂😂😂😂
Most annoying man ever. He is emotionally cheating on May, with a woman who has him wrapped and she knows it. Ellen had no intention of being with him, she only loved the game. Newland wanted Mays money so he marries her anyway. Then he complains about his marriage after she has his children. Ick. Just ick
That snake! May confronts him in a smart and eloquent way, and he lies straight to her face. Those two from the beginning of this clip deserve each other. They don't want to cheat and look disloyal and sketchy in the eyes of society, but that's exactly what they do.
Does he go with duty, honor and convention or does he go with his gut? Eventually, The Countess would've become bored with him and moved on.. He was blinded by his passion for her... A life of privilege vs an exciting romance.... He would've been foolish to give up everything for her.
I actually feel sorry for him that he didn't find the courage to resist the expectations and pressure of society. The society was conservative and patriarchal, but women were the ones who kept order and made sure that no one accidentally slipped off the tracks. Thus, even though he was the head of the family, living in such a society, he still had to pay the price, and he spent his life without the one he really loves.
I hated the Novel and Movie! If Ellen and Newland had gotten married they wouldn’t be happy either! She would bore of him and he of her. What do they really have in common to keep them together? Passion? Then they would be shunned. He wouldn’t be able to have his career etc. He would eventually blame Ellen!
But...that's life, no? Wharton wasn't aiming at some 'happily ever after' narrative--there was no perfect couple buried somewhere in her novel. She wanted to tell a story about imperfect people, passion, longing, deceit, social conventions...She wanted to explain her own marriage & affair to herself maybe, put her own desires & decisions down on paper in fictional disguise.
Yes, I was surprised by the comments here, I saw this movie in a completely opposite way, they loved each other and had to be apart because of the foolish social conventions of that time, a lifetime wasted ...
She was taken by her aunt to live and travel in Europe when she was young. She led a very unconventional life and ended up marrying a Count. He was back in New York and felt bound by the constraints of upper class society there. He had to practice law, marry, adhere to social standards, etc as the period dictated. They never aligned/crossed paths past childhood to have anything come about of it.
For one thing, Ellen was still married. She wanted to file for divorce but New York society frowned on divorce and even moreso if initiated by the woman (yes, it was a sexist society). They also snubbed Ellen initially since although she fled from an unfaithful and possibly abusive husband, she was found out to be living with her husband's secretary who helped her escape. This detail evaporated any sympathy New York could have for Ellen until their most powerful family invited Ellen to an exclusive dinner party. At this point in the film, Newland persuaded Ellen to not get a divorce to avoid scandal. Later, when he professed to love her and wanting to marry her, she accuses him of making it impossible by stopping her from getting a divorce. Also, Newland was never strong enough to follow his heart and break the rules of society and do the decent thing.
I don't understand these women, do they have no interest in sex and expect their partner to wait a year to have sex? They weren't able to do it outside of marriage, so wouldn't she be eager to get married as well? To just sit for a year with no sex at the peak of your hormonal urges? Just don't get it.
Virginity was highly valued in women, that’s what May represents upholding this tradition. Countess olenska on the other hand was more liberal about it, and that’s one of the reasons her reputation was damaged.
Is this a genuine question? Obviously these women care about sex, but they're complex human beings, so sex isn't the _only_ thing they care about. Like most people, they have to balance their desire for physical pleasure against their long-term interests. May is concerned that Newland's apparent desire to shorten the engagement belies his true ambivalence towards her, and she's right about that. Her caution in this scene is totally warranted.
@@jaimiesalid3141 LOL. Daniel Day-Lewis, arguably one of the greatest actors of his generation and winner of three -- THREE -- Academy Awards for Best Actor...can't act? That's a good one. Winona Ryder and Michelle Pfeiffer aren't at his level, but they're not terrible actresses.
When she says "let's talk frankly, Newland..." my blood goes cold, the world hangs by a thread. "I don't know, you might, it would be one way to settle the question" is such a real situation. So much power in her doe eyes. What a scene.
He treated May terrible. She gave him and out and still insisted he want to marry her. Then cries how miserable and bored he is later and wants to leave and feels trapped when she tells him sorry dude I'm with child. He had is chance and blames everyone but himself. So annoying.
He wasn't "bored" enough not to knock her up, it seems. He's such trash, lol. Daniel Day Lewis played this character wonderfully, all his reactions and speeches restrained and weak.
Typical male behavior and still goes on today.
Newland is essentially a coward. He's certain he's like the profound passionate men who arrive in the poetry & novels he receives each month, but when passion finds him in real life he runs the other way. Newland doesn't have the Countess' courage--he discovers he's made for a small safe life, with his passions kept in tidy rows in his library.
May is the big person here.
Typical man! Wants to be wild running and scratches at the door. Has chance to run outside and runs back inside like a little scared housecat - back to wifey!
Fun part of reading the book is just how much Newland projects that May is empty headed and naive. Like he at one point literally thinks that he will have to teach her about things, all things he likes of course. And the signs were literally all there in his face and he ignored them.
Indeed, I remember him saying in the movie, that he was looking forward to enlightening his wife, but she didn't have the faintest notion she needed to be enlightened. 😉 When he thought he was going to start traveling the world, Japan, to be precise, May showed him just how smart she was. 😉
May is so much smarter than he gives her credit for. This moment, and near the end when she delivers her news. She stands, towering over him, and wow… May is no dummy.
Yes , In lots of these old stories, morality changes with modern times many can clearly see that his character is utterly obnoxious
May, I think, has a sort of swarm intelligence coming from accepting the norms of her swarm and accepting her place within it. It gives her the wisdom of all the generations of women preceding her but it takese her individuality in return. To get this sort of intelligence you need to give up your individual mind and way of thinking. She makes that exchange and Madame Olenska doesn''t, whereas poor Archer gets stuck somewhere in the middle of the process which seems to be the least profitable way of all.
@@joannaplichta9677It's a bit different in the book, because May's grandmother you learn had a shameful father who left the family and her family had to work hard to get high in society again and get good marriages. So it's kind of obvious that May and her female relatives have been taught to keep up appearances as much as they can but also do what they want and manipulate it to be seen as not so bad publically. Newland knew all of this and honestly thought he was smarter than he actually was. Ellen was too naive to understand her situation and position in society, especially after she returned.
@@Ashbrash1998I don’t think May was manipulative in any way. She has every right to be impregnated by her husband, and Ellen did the right thing by leaving them alone.
Though it says something about Archer that he's sleeping with May while planning his escape with Ellen.
He was insanely self centered. She asked and he reassured her
He’s a lying coward!
I recall reading the novel and seeing the movie and how Newland was eager to take the role of a 'teacher' to May. And later on, during his 'bleak' hours, he assumed there was 'nothing' behind her, like she had zero thoughts. But this small scene shows that May is not 'empty' inside, she has substance but her convention taught her to withhold her true self from Newland.
Not empty at all. She knows how to win.
This is a brilliant way of showing how Newland projects on his women - imagining the Countess Olenska talking to him while in a sleigh with horses and wearing fur etc while he falsely believes that May is all innocence and notices nothing. May plays the devastating nature of her news to both Newland and the Countess perfectly, The saddest part is the end - Newland has all the freedom he once wanted - yet he literally can’t see the Countess even though her windows are open (Parisian flat).
He's gaslighting you, May!
I was thrilled when May confronted her weasel of a fiance.
I can’t stand Ellen. She’s toying with him throughout the novel even though she knows he’s unavailable. How despicable.
Absolutely. I always thought most people see her as a victim and them as star-crossed lovers... this is now what the story is about. Her woe is me schtick is very selfish.
The poor woman wants a friend, a friend who is willing to at least hear about some of what she went through, which no one else is willing to do. There are a lot of similarities between Ellen and Wharton, we aren't meant to think she's a monster.
She was young and trapped in a bad marriage. She wanted to be happy and live her life - she didn’t want to believe that it was no longer possible for her. Her life was doomed at this point. It was the unfortunate circumstance of many a young women
@@lyndawilliams4570 so why she did'nt find a freeman?
He hardly knew Ellen. If they ran off, they may find they aren’t even compatible
One of Scorsese's greatest films. I know people love his late70s/early80s films, but for me that blink of the eye in the early 90s when he did Goodfellas, The Age of Innocence & Casino is Scorsese at the glorious height of his talent.
The novel is Edith Wharton's triumph of course, so Scorsese is working from a remarkable text, but he adds so many tiny visual details that make the film equally thrilling. Just that single shot at 6:04 where you realize Newland is reading Rossetti's ode to passion (Sonnet vii) but then runs...to May, lol, tells you everything about him & how he's going to live his life.
The Countess Olenska is one of the most exquisite & profound characters Edith Wharton ever created, & Michelle Pfeiffer inhabits her so completely. Wondrous performance.
Olenska's character is questionable. Ran away from a bad marriage. Don't bed hop.
I don’t think the Countess Olenska ever wanted to be his wife. She did not want to be a wife at all. She was all about the chase, the hard to get types. It was the thrill. And Newland was kind of a selfish jerk. Like most men of that era.
She was all about sex and money.
Darn now I have to watch the entire movie again for the thousandth time! It never gets old
I'm almost embarrassed to admit how many times I've seen this movie.😅
I thought I was the only one! This movie is eerily perfect. Each time I see it I discover something new. And a visual feast, of course.
From reading the book, they only meet about 5 times it seems. He is going to throw away his life with May for an infatuation for someone he really didn’t know.
It’s all passion!
Could it be that he wanted the innocent female as his wife and the worldly one as his mistress?
I think that’s the larger criticism of the male view of woman as a thing of desire while also wanting the act of corruption and the innocence. The two cannot exist at the same time and everyone is miserable for it.
Lots of men want this.
Well, when you've loved and lost a few times, then you realize that staying single is the better option. 😊
I think he really did want the worldly one as his wife but wasn't strong enough to stand up to social convention.
I bawled my eyes out after seeing this movie. I was thinking of the one who got away. He turned out to be a liar and a user. Oh well.
For me, he threw me under the bus. Talk about a deal breaker. It just recently happened so it still hurts. He was a liar too and only cared about himself.
He is a liar and I’m questioning myself if I should even feel bad for him given the fact that May presented her an option that wouldn’t even cause much damage if he had just been honest and cancelled the engagement.
Then he wasn't the one who got away but the bullet you dodged
6:53 This man can't even get through listening to her for 2 minutes. 🤨
7:45 The audacity of this man.
8:37 Triflers are timeless 😅
I love when May stuck the father to Archer with letter from Olenska. The cherry on the top is the farewell dinner. Whole troop against Archer and Olenska. The coward and the bed hopping countess. So happy.
I hate liars.
All trust is gone...forever!
Me too
I used to feel like that but now I just don't really care because they eventually get caught up and look foolish.
the guy is a complete jerk
Complete coward
Excellent Film.
Such a strange period of time.
It seemed like the Countess was interested only in her conquests with men. She didn't care that Newland was unavailable or that his work was important.
She wanted her own way...
Her hypocrisy is evident when she asks
" What about May?"
She couldn't give a shit about her!
She had to be with a man or she would be too lonely...
To me always one of Scorseses five best!
They don't make movies like this anymore..
He ruined an innocent person's happiness forever. Soon after marriage and after getting her pregnant, he let her know he was bored and would have abandoned her but is staying because of the child.
He gave up the one he loved for his family./duty. Even May thought it was noble.
@@AMW992 it was not a bit noble of him. Him staying for the sake of his family was the bare minimum. he knocked her up because he was a coward and stayed because he had to it was his responsibility.
The one with integrity in this whole saga is May.
No one is good or bad in this film, they’re all unhappy, that’s love, that’s life.
I choose the bear
May was never as stupid as they made her out to be
Brilliant Daniel Day-Lewis.
May knows perfectly was she was doing
Not in the book. The unspoken was of extreme importance in the text. It’s the whole bloody point!
"There's nothing between us May!" Read into that
Liar!
Poor May … let it be a lesson to trust our own intuitions!
I don't think May bothered with Archer once she had children that's where her happiness was
What a whimsy Newland is! She gave him a way out and that was precisely the moment he should have told her about Ellen. But this would mean getting out of his comfort zone 😂😂😂😂😂
Made of clay feet
Most annoying man ever. He is emotionally cheating on May, with a woman who has him wrapped and she knows it. Ellen had no intention of being with him, she only loved the game. Newland wanted Mays money so he marries her anyway. Then he complains about his marriage after she has his children.
Ick. Just ick
The house is in Kinderhook, NY
That snake! May confronts him in a smart and eloquent way, and he lies straight to her face. Those two from the beginning of this clip deserve each other. They don't want to cheat and look disloyal and sketchy in the eyes of society, but that's exactly what they do.
Does he go with duty, honor and convention or does he go with his gut?
Eventually, The Countess would've become bored with him and moved on..
He was blinded by his passion for her...
A life of privilege vs an exciting romance....
He would've been foolish to give up everything for her.
I actually feel sorry for him that he didn't find the courage to resist the expectations and pressure of society. The society was conservative and patriarchal, but women were the ones who kept order and made sure that no one accidentally slipped off the tracks. Thus, even though he was the head of the family, living in such a society, he still had to pay the price, and he spent his life without the one he really loves.
Did he really love Ellen? He might not have been happy with her if they were together long term. He did love his kids with May.
@@rosemarywoodhouse4832 Maybe he wouldn't be happy, maybe he would. Since he didn't dare to find out, he doesn't know it, neither do we
I hated the Novel and Movie! If Ellen and Newland had gotten married they wouldn’t be happy either! She would bore of him and he of her. What do they really have in common to keep them together? Passion? Then they would be shunned. He wouldn’t be able to have his career etc. He would eventually blame Ellen!
But...that's life, no?
Wharton wasn't aiming at some 'happily ever after' narrative--there was no perfect couple buried somewhere in her novel. She wanted to tell a story about imperfect people, passion, longing, deceit, social conventions...She wanted to explain her own marriage & affair to herself maybe, put her own desires & decisions down on paper in fictional disguise.
The only role that I didn’t like Michelle Pfeiffer in.
Why
@@mrk2K10 Exactly, I do like her though…
Because she's a-moral. Imagine flirting with your cousin's fiancé. Any good v woman will not even do it to a friend.
Well yes. Richard Gere.
nope
Winona was a ten oit of ten here
Comments have no sense of romance.
"Passion strikes where it may"
Yes, I was surprised by the comments here, I saw this movie in a completely opposite way, they loved each other and had to be apart because of the foolish social conventions of that time, a lifetime wasted ...
May fought subliminally. No screaming matches. Rose above her cousin. Countess Olenska would be called by b elders in my family as harlot. Apologies.
Can someone explain why they didn't get married
She was taken by her aunt to live and travel in Europe when she was young. She led a very unconventional life and ended up marrying a Count. He was back in New York and felt bound by the constraints of upper class society there. He had to practice law, marry, adhere to social standards, etc as the period dictated. They never aligned/crossed paths past childhood to have anything come about of it.
May decided to keep him.
For one thing, Ellen was still married. She wanted to file for divorce but New York society frowned on divorce and even moreso if initiated by the woman (yes, it was a sexist society). They also snubbed Ellen initially since although she fled from an unfaithful and possibly abusive husband, she was found out to be living with her husband's secretary who helped her escape. This detail evaporated any sympathy New York could have for Ellen until their most powerful family invited Ellen to an exclusive dinner party. At this point in the film, Newland persuaded Ellen to not get a divorce to avoid scandal. Later, when he professed to love her and wanting to marry her, she accuses him of making it impossible by stopping her from getting a divorce. Also, Newland was never strong enough to follow his heart and break the rules of society and do the decent thing.
@@raphaelledesma9393Newland was noodle-backed coward.
@@raphaelledesma9393What would've been the decent thing besides leave May out of his disaster?
Nice but bad
I don't understand these women, do they have no interest in sex and expect their partner to wait a year to have sex? They weren't able to do it outside of marriage, so wouldn't she be eager to get married as well? To just sit for a year with no sex at the peak of your hormonal urges? Just don't get it.
😂
Virginity was highly valued in women, that’s what May represents upholding this tradition. Countess olenska on the other hand was more liberal about it, and that’s one of the reasons her reputation was damaged.
They were taught that sex was dirty and shameful, and that a “ good woman” shouldn’t enjoy it.
Is this a genuine question? Obviously these women care about sex, but they're complex human beings, so sex isn't the _only_ thing they care about. Like most people, they have to balance their desire for physical pleasure against their long-term interests. May is concerned that Newland's apparent desire to shorten the engagement belies his true ambivalence towards her, and she's right about that. Her caution in this scene is totally warranted.
You'll be surprised.
So many bitter women on the comments...
I found the movie to be utterly boring. No twist, just plain boring life
The thing is, none of them can even ACT
@@jaimiesalid3141 LOL. Daniel Day-Lewis, arguably one of the greatest actors of his generation and winner of three -- THREE -- Academy Awards for Best Actor...can't act? That's a good one. Winona Ryder and Michelle Pfeiffer aren't at his level, but they're not terrible actresses.
@@feverspell Winona Ryder and Michelle Pfeiffer are both highly succesful Hollywood movie stars who have made very famous and lost-lasting movies.
@@feverspell Exactly. And the movie is absolutely great. But, people who luck sensitivity and depth will never understand.
@@jaimiesalid3141 Maybe because you don't understand
May was not a heroine. She was a spoiled rich girl who only cared for society's rules and status. Meh
Ryder cannot act.