I find it awkward that you didn't chase the misreading of the outlier Chrono. You could have at least switched positions to see if that changed anything.
This was a really smart idea for a test. I haven't looked for a Garmin v LR test but that's be a good one too. The second guy shooting who showed the steel...HOLY cow, great shooting. Thanks for the video guys
As far out as they are spread they did good. For the sake of curiosity, I would have dropped down to only two units placed one on either side to test the one with the oddball reading. With just two units it's less likely to experience interference.
So 1 of the 10 chronos had fairly significant difference…is that interference or a bad unit? Does Garmin have anything to say on this? 10% off the units being off is not “pretty much flawless” IMO. And I’m in the market for one of these to replace my cheapy Caldwell.
We think the issue was them being stacked that close to each other as that is not really how they are intended to be used. We should have tested that one single unit afterwards but we think it was a fluke. To be transparent this was actually the second time we tried to shoot the video. The first time we went out, the wind made the audio unusable so we went out on two different days. We used the same chronographs both times and this was the only time the one unit had a misread. We are chalking it up to the interference but we will reach out to Garmin to see what they say. We could have cut it out of the video but we wanted to see what 10 of them did side by side for fun. With the exception of that one reading, they were all within 1-2FPS. I don't think any electronic unit is 100% accurate all the time but this has been about as close to that from all of our testing for the past 5 months. Way more accurate and consistent than other chronos I have used in the past. I can say with confidence you will be nothing but impressed with one of these units.
Interesting test. It would be interesting to see your test with the units laid out more level and precisely placed, aligned with a straight edge- distance precisely measured from the gun. Was the one giving the odd reading the one that is canted in the alignment toward the unit on its right in the video? Your video convinces me it is time to retire the Oehler 35.
Thank you for this video. Nice to see a lineup of them. I did not doubt the accuracy because of the tech they are using. Have you found a way to shoot round robin? Shoot 1 shot in a session, move to next session, shoot another load, move on, then go back to the first session and shoot another shot of that load. I have not found a way to do this and it seems like an obvious thing Garmin should have allowed. Heck, you can do this with a $120 Chrony Pro! I tried History/Session/Shot List and shooting, but it did not add the new shots to the list. Nothing in the manual about it.
Not being able to shoot round robin forces us to shoot all of one load in a continuous sequence. As we all know, shooting round robin distributes any atmospheric changes, barrel changes, or "us changes" over the course of a day of load development. I to give up round robin with the Magneto and was hoping Garmin could accommodate it. The good news is, it's firmware/software so it could be added if not possible now.
In theory you can do that with a labradar, but even an error a couple of FPS skews the numbers so bad on the BC calculation makes the function pretty much worthless IMO.
Pretty sure the Garmin does not. But there are other ways to get that data with the Garmin. For firearms, a ballistics calculator has you covered. For archery, position the Garmin a yard in front of the target so arrows fly over the Garmin at about the same distance from the top. Shoot from 21, 31, 41, etc. If the arrow is at a relatively consistent height and an expected size projectile and velocity range, you should be good.
@@harleyrider883 Ahh, good to hear! Just a point of clarification regarding ballistic calculators … numbers going out are only as accurate as the numbers going in (which includes often overstated BC values provided by the manufacturer). So "truing" your ballistic calculator is required to be certain of point of impact at distance. Lots of good information out there on how to do it.
The story I've heard about the Hornady ELD series origin is the proof of that -- the actual doppler radar readings of downrange projectiles not matching calculated values being the signal that something wasn't working as expected. That said, the only reason I'm hitting dinner plates at 800m is because the calculators are pretty amazing when expected and actual values line up. I'd love to think it was my skill, alone, but ... 😉 Keep up the great work!
You can ship me one of them Garmin Chrono. I can not afford one since I have been on disability from surgeries and cancer treatment through my works Short and Long-termdisability. LOL 😆 I will get one at some point when I can work again.
I would be concerned about getting that one in ten unit that didn't measure speed accurately. How would anyone even know unless they had 10 of them to check against. It would be unfortunate to go through all the effort of load development, custom turret creation just to find out your speeds were off and your calculations are all wrong. Re-test with just that one unit or test with all ten again but mix up their placement to see if that one still has an issue when in a different spot.
Just because you have 9 or 10 units giving the same number it doesn't mean they are accurate. Just means they are precise. Two different things, dummy.
We probably should have tested that one individually afterwards and I am sure it would have resolved the issue. We were trying to keep the video relatively short. But good excuse to go out and test them again. They're not really meant to be stacked up against each other like this so we think that was the issue. Luke and I have put over 100s rounds past these units over since their launch and the only misreads have been when the unit was not pointed the right direction. Far less issues than other chronos we have used in the past. I don't think any electronic device can be 100% flawless, but we can definitely say these have been far more accurate, and less problematic than other chronos on the market.
We had actually done another outing shooting all 10 without any readings that didn't make sense. I think that unit was slightly behind and pointed towards its neighbor.
@@MarsupialGear I’ve got one and love it. No hate here. I just would’ve wanted to know personally what the discrepancy was. Even though, it was only off a couple percent if that.
That's so funny that even ALL of the same brands don't show the same data. LOL. Not only that but you DON'T know how from the muzzle each chrony actually picks up and measures the bullets speed. It could be 7 yards from the muzzle, or maybe even 15 yards, or even 4 yards. And the measurement distance might be different for each shot. That's precisely why I think the Magneto speed is more accurate. Sure it sucks to setup and use it, but I think it gives a more accurate number AT THE MUZZLE instead of some algorithm that calculates it based on the distance it measured it from the muzzle..
My big issue with the magneto speed is it changes your point of impact. So ya, it's fine for load development, but it's not something you're going to use every shot at the range. We've run guns out to 1K using the garmin provided velocity and it tracks, so at least in our case, the algorithm is plenty good
@@ArrowheadRifles Yes that's true, it will change POI. But not if you use a mount that connects it to your pic trail or Acra rail. Then there's no contact with the barrel.
I have other chronographs including the Magnetospeed V3. fired over 1K rounds using it. It's quite possible that testing 10 of them on the same shot would result in different readouts. but of course you can't do that since it mounts to the barrel or rail. I wil check velocities shown by each next time I go to the range with a load that gets low single digit ES / SD (7 ES 3.3 SD) and see if they show pretty much the same. I could also shoot it through my old Chrony Pro as a third ref.
POI is affected by Magnetospeed, at least on thin contour barrels. I used to think that it only raises it 1" but then realized you really have to adjust the Magneto after every shot to make sure it is the same tightness and same spot on the barrel to shoot for groups and check speed simultaneously. Even then you don't know if it is affecting the barrel harmonics differently from shot to shot. An oversight on the Magneto is that you can't add shots to a string after archiving and moving to another string, so you can't shoot round robin and have all shots from load A in 1 string, all from load B in another string and so on. This might be the same on the Xero; I have not found a way to add shots to a previous session but I've only had it for 1 day.
I find it awkward that you didn't chase the misreading of the outlier Chrono. You could have at least switched positions to see if that changed anything.
seriously, 1 out of 10 being an "outlier" seems pretty significant
I didn't understand that either.
This was a really smart idea for a test. I haven't looked for a Garmin v LR test but that's be a good one too. The second guy shooting who showed the steel...HOLY cow, great shooting. Thanks for the video guys
This helped me solidify my decision to get this. Thank you
10% difference is significant.
I own one of these, just get one so amazing.
I love mine and keep it in the box in my range bag.
As far out as they are spread they did good.
For the sake of curiosity, I would have dropped down to only two units placed one on either side to test the one with the oddball reading.
With just two units it's less likely to experience interference.
So 1 of the 10 chronos had fairly significant difference…is that interference or a bad unit? Does Garmin have anything to say on this? 10% off the units being off is not “pretty much flawless” IMO. And I’m in the market for one of these to replace my cheapy Caldwell.
We think the issue was them being stacked that close to each other as that is not really how they are intended to be used. We should have tested that one single unit afterwards but we think it was a fluke. To be transparent this was actually the second time we tried to shoot the video. The first time we went out, the wind made the audio unusable so we went out on two different days. We used the same chronographs both times and this was the only time the one unit had a misread. We are chalking it up to the interference but we will reach out to Garmin to see what they say. We could have cut it out of the video but we wanted to see what 10 of them did side by side for fun. With the exception of that one reading, they were all within 1-2FPS.
I don't think any electronic unit is 100% accurate all the time but this has been about as close to that from all of our testing for the past 5 months. Way more accurate and consistent than other chronos I have used in the past. I can say with confidence you will be nothing but impressed with one of these units.
@@MarsupialGear Thanks for the reply, agree on retesting that one unit.
Interesting test. It would be interesting to see your test with the units laid out more level and precisely placed, aligned with a straight edge- distance precisely measured from the gun. Was the one giving the odd reading the one that is canted in the alignment toward the unit on its right in the video?
Your video convinces me it is time to retire the Oehler 35.
Thank you for this video. Nice to see a lineup of them. I did not doubt the accuracy because of the tech they are using. Have you found a way to shoot round robin? Shoot 1 shot in a session, move to next session, shoot another load, move on, then go back to the first session and shoot another shot of that load. I have not found a way to do this and it seems like an obvious thing Garmin should have allowed. Heck, you can do this with a $120 Chrony Pro! I tried History/Session/Shot List and shooting, but it did not add the new shots to the list. Nothing in the manual about it.
Not being able to shoot round robin forces us to shoot all of one load in a continuous sequence. As we all know, shooting round robin distributes any atmospheric changes, barrel changes, or "us changes" over the course of a day of load development. I to give up round robin with the Magneto and was hoping Garmin could accommodate it. The good news is, it's firmware/software so it could be added if not possible now.
I need one of these. Would love if it could track speed out to 100 meters as well (or any distance enough to calculate BC). Maybe the C2 Pro ;)
In theory you can do that with a labradar, but even an error a couple of FPS skews the numbers so bad on the BC calculation makes the function pretty much worthless IMO.
Currently using LabRadar, which I got when it came out. Question on the Garmin: does it measure the same shot at multiple distances? Thanks!
Pretty sure the Garmin does not. But there are other ways to get that data with the Garmin. For firearms, a ballistics calculator has you covered. For archery, position the Garmin a yard in front of the target so arrows fly over the Garmin at about the same distance from the top. Shoot from 21, 31, 41, etc. If the arrow is at a relatively consistent height and an expected size projectile and velocity range, you should be good.
@@drilledarmory Thanks! Just found a review that compared Labradar and Garmin. They looked at that specific question and found exactly what you said.
@@harleyrider883 Ahh, good to hear! Just a point of clarification regarding ballistic calculators … numbers going out are only as accurate as the numbers going in (which includes often overstated BC values provided by the manufacturer). So "truing" your ballistic calculator is required to be certain of point of impact at distance. Lots of good information out there on how to do it.
The story I've heard about the Hornady ELD series origin is the proof of that -- the actual doppler radar readings of downrange projectiles not matching calculated values being the signal that something wasn't working as expected. That said, the only reason I'm hitting dinner plates at 800m is because the calculators are pretty amazing when expected and actual values line up. I'd love to think it was my skill, alone, but ... 😉
Keep up the great work!
Didn't get your web site, like to know what it is please, Great info and have mine and it's also great.👍👍👍👍
You can ship me one of them Garmin Chrono. I can not afford one since I have been on disability from surgeries and cancer treatment through my works Short and Long-termdisability. LOL 😆 I will get one at some point when I can work again.
I would be concerned about getting that one in ten unit that didn't measure speed accurately. How would anyone even know unless they had 10 of them to check against. It would be unfortunate to go through all the effort of load development, custom turret creation just to find out your speeds were off and your calculations are all wrong.
Re-test with just that one unit or test with all ten again but mix up their placement to see if that one still has an issue when in a different spot.
Just because you have 9 or 10 units giving the same number it doesn't mean they are accurate. Just means they are precise. Two different things, dummy.
10 😮 still waiting on mine
What if I get the “outlier” and have nothing for reference…
Awesome results, except for that 1 unit. That spread is concerning
I’m not sure 4” low of center on that target at 640 yards would bother these guys even a little.
How does it work measuring pistol velocities?
What rifle stock is that
It would be interesting for you to take that outlier unit and test it solo to see if it was interference or a faulty unit.
We probably should have tested that one individually afterwards and I am sure it would have resolved the issue. We were trying to keep the video relatively short. But good excuse to go out and test them again. They're not really meant to be stacked up against each other like this so we think that was the issue. Luke and I have put over 100s rounds past these units over since their launch and the only misreads have been when the unit was not pointed the right direction. Far less issues than other chronos we have used in the past. I don't think any electronic device can be 100% flawless, but we can definitely say these have been far more accurate, and less problematic than other chronos on the market.
We had actually done another outing shooting all 10 without any readings that didn't make sense. I think that unit was slightly behind and pointed towards its neighbor.
@@MarsupialGear I’ve got one and love it. No hate here. I just would’ve wanted to know personally what the discrepancy was. Even though, it was only off a couple percent if that.
this is one of those times that the often used word "game changer" actually applies.
If you did the same test with 10 lab radar, i wouldnt be surprised if only 1 out of 10 will measure the shot.
Do you want to sell one of those 10 units
Now just get the cost down & I may retire my old chrony that still works great after 25 years !
If you wan to donate one of those chronographs I'll take one with my mailing address. Thanks
Super consistent? 1 in 10 not reading properly?
Vocal fry
That's so funny that even ALL of the same brands don't show the same data. LOL. Not only that but you DON'T know how from the muzzle each chrony actually picks up and measures the bullets speed. It could be 7 yards from the muzzle, or maybe even 15 yards, or even 4 yards. And the measurement distance might be different for each shot. That's precisely why I think the Magneto speed is more accurate. Sure it sucks to setup and use it, but I think it gives a more accurate number AT THE MUZZLE instead of some algorithm that calculates it based on the distance it measured it from the muzzle..
My big issue with the magneto speed is it changes your point of impact. So ya, it's fine for load development, but it's not something you're going to use every shot at the range. We've run guns out to 1K using the garmin provided velocity and it tracks, so at least in our case, the algorithm is plenty good
@@ArrowheadRifles Yes that's true, it will change POI. But not if you use a mount that connects it to your pic trail or Acra rail. Then there's no contact with the barrel.
I have other chronographs including the Magnetospeed V3. fired over 1K rounds using it. It's quite possible that testing 10 of them on the same shot would result in different readouts. but of course you can't do that since it mounts to the barrel or rail. I wil check velocities shown by each next time I go to the range with a load that gets low single digit ES / SD (7 ES 3.3 SD) and see if they show pretty much the same. I could also shoot it through my old Chrony Pro as a third ref.
POI is affected by Magnetospeed, at least on thin contour barrels. I used to think that it only raises it 1" but then realized you really have to adjust the Magneto after every shot to make sure it is the same tightness and same spot on the barrel to shoot for groups and check speed simultaneously. Even then you don't know if it is affecting the barrel harmonics differently from shot to shot. An oversight on the Magneto is that you can't add shots to a string after archiving and moving to another string, so you can't shoot round robin and have all shots from load A in 1 string, all from load B in another string and so on. This might be the same on the Xero; I have not found a way to add shots to a previous session but I've only had it for 1 day.
@timx1733 That's why you don't attach it to the barrel. There are mounts where you can attach it to the pic rail or arca rail.