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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
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In this video i take a look at some general map design knowledge in a humoristic manner.
Further i talk a bit about the thought behind some of the map design that is being applied by Gaijin when designing maps for war thunder. Towards the end of a video i go over the map balancing of war thunder and whether it is good or bad.
#warthunder #gaming #warthundergameplay - เกม
They say if you say your favourite WarThunder content creator 3 times you get pinned
Jerrycano
Jerrycano
Jerrycano
💀
@@kmanb 💀
sure. i'l cave
@@Jerrycanooo aint no way 🤦♂
@@Jerrycanooothanks legend
turns out forcing modern MBTs to knifefight like tanks from 80 years ago is a bad idea - I don't think anyone could have foreseen that
Modern MBT engaging targets at 5km range with precision:
Gaijin:"Best i can do is 400m"
Thing is, not even WW2 tanks would knife-fight. The average WW2 engagement distance was 800-1000 meters.
Problem is with the game itself, because any engagement beyond two clicks is unplayable: All vehicles tend to hover, teleport or just slide sideways when moving at those ranges.
@@tomppeli. not to mention my rounds start acting kinda funny past 2.5km like it bounced upward off the M1's lower front plate
@@tomppeli. Yeah, on really big maps you sometimes just see tanks hover, move backwards then suddenly porting a few meters forward again...THEN they finally stop lol
worst part is, maps that used to be good are actively made worse because if anything deviates from a 3-lane MOBA map, gaijin will mald
What’s a 3 line MOBA map?
@@pummeluff3322 dota or LoL type maps
Basically, if its non DotA/LoL, gaijin becomes very unhappy and makes it one
@@pummeluff3322left center and right sides of the maps can be simplied as "lines" or "lanes" usually very simple and 'brain dead' gameplay happens because of this. People want maps where you're not forced into what is essentially a bottle neck, where you just brawl at the corners or sniped each other at the same hill over and over again. The people that do want that should go back to WoT
CQC maps are perfect for low to mid br games though. Sands of sinai and Flanders are hell when only some nations have good long range weapons.
They should move those flat maps to higher brs and let the cqc maps stay at lower brs
- spawn to spawn sightlines
- strictly 3 choke points that flood with dead carcasses after 2 minutes into the game
- The C point is far away from the rest
-all flank routes are punished with extremely open sightlines
- advantageous positions are forcibly blocked off by invisible barriers
the pinnacle of map design
Tanks are also stripped off of their ability to scale hills
All american tanks were designed to climb a 60° gradient
In wt, they just bog down at around 30°
hey dont forget the whole give one side an easy cap forcing the other team to fight for 2 to even have a chance of winning
@@ozan1234561 thats because in the past tanks with cannons could get into weird spots, in some cases you would have a rad camp wagen get lodged into a rock where he could see the whole enemy team, and the enemy only had his turret showing, resulting in him wiping the whole enemy team out because they couldnt deal with him, and type 93s getting onto the roofs of buildings (but that wasnt that much a game breaking thing because it could only shoot down planes, and couldnt even do that) so instead of fixing the maps, they just decreased everyones traction, by 20%, 3 times.
now you get shit where pumas and other wheel cars will fish tale because both the front and back wheels turn at the same time.
or tigers having a hard time climbing up a 20 percent slope, or sliding off a slight hill.
@@Thekilleroftanks yep, it hit wheeled vehicles especially hard as, instead of performing better than tracks on sand and asphalt, they fail to accelerate and end up only picking up speed at top gear. If only they would fix maps and give vehicle mobility back.
I just wish they stopped removing flanking routes and trying to make every single map like a 3 lane CoD map because of sub brick IQ players that have no situational awareness.
I repeat this every salty war thunder session xD
Look: Im fine with most flank routes but having goddamn forest on edge of the half of the polish fields only for some rat to go there and spawncamp is NOT FINE
@@Cyanfox3006Or Ardennes where they can attack you from both sides
@@Primendra18 Its still not as bad (its still really bad) cause at least some sort of antiflank cover exists, while on FoP you are either open to crossfire from enemy spawn or open to the camper. You just can't hide even on your own spawn
"flanking routes" why am i 100% sure you are reffering to the stuff shown at 4:40 and not actual flanking... whenever someone complains about removal of flanking routes the mean "spawncamping routes" without fail. flanking routes are still plenty on every map. If you need to shoot more than 200-500m when "flanking" you are not flanking, you are taking shots while on your way to the spawn. simple as that.
War Thunder's biggest issue is that they have VERY little gameplay variety. They force every vehicle into the same type of gameplay - ww2 style, close quarters TDM. The only exception to this are the Sim modes that tend to last hours. So your only choices are 5-10 minutes or 2+ hours. There's no 20-30 minute gameplay for the average player.
Ground sim games are the same format as ground rb they last 25 mins max but usually less just like rb
Are you talking about air sim?
@turgeon1235 the Sim mode I'm referring to is Air Sim yeah.
the kamchatka floating tree will always have a place in my heart
remember crashing into it on the dev server and than once more when the patch dropped
@@Jerrycanooo Was it just one tree?
@@mr.tweaty it was one singular flying tree, but it was there for almost 6 months mind you
@@Jerrycanooo I'm just surprised how someone could find a single flying tree in hundreds of cubic kilometers of open air, let alone accidently hit it multiple times
@@mr.tweaty as big as the maps are you only really fly in a small part of it. Secondly it was rather close to one of the bases and thirdly i hit cause i wanted to se if it would still kill me. as one would assume it would be a rather easy fix.
Map design is god awful, and on many maps they limit where you can go. On Mozdok you used to be able to use the hill to cover the A object if you turned right from one of the spawns. Nah not since January or so. European Province 2.0 or whatever the really lazy literal carbon copy with a near identical river and terrain layout is called. You can only fight on one side of the river in many game modes. (but the laziness of this map is a whole other discussion)
When your best maps are the maps that are 14 years old, Its clear map design is not at the forefront of things they prioritise. and it's what's driven me away from the game, playing Sversk 13 times in a row. It stops me from wanting to play. Oh wait nah thats a lie I didnt play the same Sversk map 13 times in a row, it would alternate with snow and no snow versions
They blocked the Mozdok hill off because it was way too powerful and gave the team a way too good of a sightline into quite literally half the map from B to A to the road next to their spawn and if you were somehow pushed out of there by the other team, the other team could shoot into your spawn from there. Not letting you go up there any more is one of the rare good changes they made (because they were too lazy to change the actual map) so picking that as an example of a bad change just reeks of you being mad your favorite OP spot got removed.
Gaijin actively worsens maps even. Current Devserver, large version of Sinai. The coolest part, a huge mountain in the center with big rock formations was removed
that mountain where the whole team camps and nothing can move without getting sniped by the mountain goats?
@@ThorindirNaari the mountain with actual strategical Importance, which coincidentally doesnt allow you to snipe the entire map. Gaijin now just flatened the entire map and removed even more cover
3:10 Oxy jumpscare (thanks I needed a bit of you but also oxy to brighten my day)
if oxy brightens your day up you might have a problem
the OG war Thunder Femboy
@@RogueBeatsARG that shouldn't be a praise, that's sad.
@@ANukeWithLegs ong
One thing you didn't mention is Gaijin quest to kill flanking and to make every map they update worse them they were before.
Seriously that last one is ridiculous, I can't name a single map that was worse before they updated it.
There is also their fetiche in making the maps purposely unbalaced by removing flanking routes and sniping spots from one side and not the other.
like new tunisia
@@Jerrycanooo and the absolute butcher of sands of Senial or whatever that bug hill maps called
Gaijin is not killing flanking. they remove routes used to go and spawncamp. flanking is still 100% possible on each and every map in the game. If you need to shoot fruther than 500m when "flanking" you are not flanking. simple as that
@@1996Horst You don't know the definition of flanking it seems and spawn camping is still rampant in all those maps, some of them you don't even need to leave your spawn to do it.
@@prizrak-br3332 give me your definition of flanking and I will tell you why you are entirely wrong. simple as that. stop deflecting from your apparent skill and brain issue
90% of WT's map issues could be solved by using Simulator maps, they are absolutely massive versions of the regular maps, with wildly different gameplay (good example of this used to be that shitty muddy castle map, which was fun in simulator because it had ranges beyond 45 meters)
1 problem,big map isnt particularly very fun... long travel time and most of the time simply just a sniping battle
White rock forstress? i miss that one, it was fun.
@@user-sg9ql8nk1u True, but from 7.3 upward the maps need to have larger ranges
@@Mucky_Muck My most hated map back then. How foolish it seems considering Sun City exists now
@@AveragePootis yes i understand but not too large so its isnt just sniping simulator or wanking ur ass entire battle only to die in 1 shot
Gaijin be like "Let's add all those vehicle categories"
And then make them all fight on the shortest range possible.
Never played World of Tanks? If War Thunder maps are horrible (which a good part of them is) then WoT‘s ones are below zero
If anyone at Gajin had any human decency, they'd scrap ALL the ground maps and make the new roster from scratch.
3:10 what is that? Wtf is that?
the root of a lot of problems
@cadberry1461 yeah, in more ways than one.... yikes.... no wonder it's a mess
A good reason to stop playing WT.
I stopped after free Abrams controversy.
@@ANukeWithLegs wasn't that like 3 or so years ago
It's gotten this bad because the game was never originally designed to get to this era of vehicles. The Korean war period was supposed to be the peak. The maps for air and ground were set up for dogfights and old fashioned tank slug fests, we are now in the era of one shot one kill precision weapons systems that are considered short range when, in the case of air, used within ten miles (about 16km) and in the case of tanks 1.5km.
And then the large maps for hightier are often also spawn-to-spawn shooting, it's just you're firing 2km away instead of 500m.
The thougth around making WT maps for gaijin is that they need to be shit apparently
4:20 one spot is almost completely open to A and needs careful management of cover, especially in big MBTs, to stay hidden from fire....
there was an exploit which you could do to quit matches on maps you dont like without map-ban or getting a crewlock
yeah, exiting a match without getting a crew lock, how cool is that?
They should make it that spawn camping gives way way less spawn points per kill, meaning getting destroyed while trying to spawn camp will send you to hanger
Nah, just fix the fucking maps so that spawn camping isn’t possible
@@Natediggetydog If they gonna "hide" spawn behind hill, well done, U just made hull down heaven, it's really hard in game like that to make spawn really safe
You cannot hide from me, frog man I am everywhere I am him by the might of war Thunder by the king of the snail. I shall cast you into a frog and also a simp
*ribbit
Gaijin: Lets make a game that has completely unrealistic combat, but lets give it realistic maps because we hate fun!
i totally didnt recognize that logo in the thumbnail immediately
I think a good solution to a lot of problems would be to rework spawn protection entirely. I feel like gaijin encourages spawn killing with current set up. Instead of a 1 or 2 spawn location, make it so players can spawn anywhere on their side of the map within say 150m of the map edge. Would make it much harder for enemies to lock down spawns.
An even better way would just be to make spawn protection last way longer. Make it indefinite until you fire your guns or move, at which point a timer starts.
Personally I like close range maps a lot more. I can rely on my ears instead of thermals and a rangefinder I dont have yet.
Simply just sniping and not being able to push an objective because of sniper lines just seems too braindead of gameplay for me. I need to think about how I move tactically
aint no good way to fix it realy, make the maps big so we can snipe and it becomes only sniping, keep em as is and top tier remains a point and click adventure.
My list of "balanced" maps (Low-tier)
1. Ash River
(forget about the sniping spot)
2. Cargo Port
Small but atleast not to cramped like Sweden or Alaska
3. Poland
There is village if you like urban battles and the C-Point if you like hill battles
4. Tunisia
CQB? Just go to the fortress
Long range? Just go to the river
5. Abandoned Factory
Same like Cargo Port
6. Golden Quarry
Same like Cargo Port and AF
7. Site 2271
Same like Tunisia
Maps would be better if they actually were fully copy-pasted from real locations and stopped relying on gamey stuff to make maps "fit in".
Who would think that putting vehicles that are designed for certain environments into said environments would create good gameplay, right?
This Reminds me of another WW2 (think wartunder but older) game where the player could roll tanks and what not.
one veacle player could pick up was APC/truck and transport helicopters.
now why would a player pick a APC that at best got a 50 cal machine gun vs a tank.
well the APC could deploy infantry that would run into buildings/forest and what not.
where they would dig in and start blasting stuff whit rocket launchers and they had.
Another was that they was the only thing that could capture points. Plus trucks was the only thing that could repair tanks and rearm them.
Problem was that the max range in the game was 1KM (infantry could hit at 600-700m).
lots of tank was designed for 1.5-2KM range whit a few tanks historacily doing we att 10-500 meter range
so the long range tank just sucked becuase you could not fire at that range.
Using real historical battlefields would probably be bad as well, since they tend to be very one-sided. The defenders choose locations to fight in that will give them an advantage, not ones where the attackers will have a fair fight
@@Natediggetydog Which is how it works IRL. Some vehicles are built for offensive operations, others for defensive - the result being that the power balance is evened out.
Currently the very gamey design of maps only permits two major nations (the US and the Soviets) to actually play and be versatile while everyone else has vehicles reserved to niche roles for which maps don't exist. It's much more unbalanced than an environment with realistic maps.
Can you grind out France when the BeNeLux sub-tech tree comes out?
The fact that spawn camping is even a thing shows how shit these maps are. A well balanced map doesn't allow players to even move into the other spawn, let alone see into it. Not to mention all the other crap that's wrong with the game, like the several hundred hour grind and pay to win bullshit.
also gaijin hate snipping spot...lot of snipping spot got purged by gaijin
I don't fully mind the maps but I do wish that they added more historical maps and a ground campaign. Also they should have a map maker just for fun
next time can you make the volyom highter cus i cant hear you talk and i got al lmy sound FULL up
You probably haven’t seen World of tanks map design, thy literally make positions for a single team and then mirror it for another
Of all the maps, I found Mozdok the worst simply because if one side is winning, you cannot drive out of your spawn at all. It's so darn terrible. Outdated as shit for high tier, shouldn't even be in the rotation. But it's not like that's the only map that I dislike... boy, there are many. And all they do? Make certain areas inaccessible... War Thunder's devs are either too lazy to make any real changes, or too stupid to make *good* changes.
for all those mad that gaijin now locks of large chunks of maps. The footage at around 4:40 shows the exact reason why.
because people who rush spawncamping positions exists. And they are almost always the same people who call this "flanking"
So here a bit of education for all those this applies to
Rushing along the far side of a map to reach a spot to snipe into the enemy spawn or at routes from the spawn to objectives, but still closer to the spawn than to the objective, is called spawncamping and has nothing in common with flanking.
The act of flanking is simple and percise. It is the act of taking the shortest route possible to engage enemies in strategic location from their side or rear in order to avoid engaging them head-on Neither does the act of flanking involve "sniping" or "spawncamping" it can be done on any type of ma, be it city map with flanking by taking the next street over, to field style maps where gaijin places roads in lowered positions which allow for the same manouver.
People who claim flanking is impossible in WT are not reffering to flanking but to the act of rushing into a position inorder to spawncamp. Hence why the map of "Poland" will loose most of its northern and southern area in the next patch, including those used for legitamite flanking, simply because people abuse the map to facilitate spawncamping.
_imagine being snoopy_
There is sooo many maps that gaijin uses that basically exist as a giant useless obstacle in and of itself. Jerrycano kind of hates Carpathians ( for good reason), but Sinai, Mozdok, and the port all have huge problems game play wise. Superiority almost always revolves around control of one point. As a result people will usually cram 20-30 multiton tanks into a meat grinder solely for the purpose of area denial.
Also, Britain. Every air player knows this map and I'm pretty sure they all hate it equally.
yes this is a huge issue the the game has in groundrb. In AirRB the "fixes" has just ben to move the spawns back and nothing else. it is really disappointing imo
Nah Vietnam is genuinely one of the better maps that I do not get enough of. Tired of seeing sands of Sinai and getting sniped from 20 miles away cause Germany mains don’t want to move away from that shitty hill
i see where your coming from, but some distance is nice as playing Call of Duty: Modern Tank Warfare aint the best either
In other words, you are tired of "German mains" playing tanks like they were designed to fight IRL.
This all sounds like a you problem.
One one hand, yes, I'd love for them to finally figure out how to better rework and balance the maps.
On the other hand, well, 6:50.
1:53 No way you actually one shot that, in my case the sabot goes right through the ammo carousel without doing any damage ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Maps 👍
If they add a new game mode and a few maps designed specifically for it, that would be a win in my books
Blood gulch!
Halo will never be forgotten
What, You don't like being able to push the enemy spawn 2 mins into the game? 😂
I leave the game when I get Vietnam, Italy or Sweden
The maps are too small even for ww2 vehicles 👀
Yay Jerry posted again but unfortunately it’s another review vid
OMG someone speak about the horror how is the WT map
me when im in a jerrycano video 😏 (7:02)
A lil feature :)
wait till you see the bullshit that is world of tanks map design
thanks jerry for making me pick ussr as my first nation back when i was new, now im researching mig 21 and 400 hours in 🔥🔥
but how should they fix this issue. i only hear complaints, rather than ways to fix the problem
5:15 bad comparison, jesus
Man you forgot about breslau(which u were playing in the background). Its based on Wrocław in Poland
i still hate them all the same
I like small maps like Sweden, maybe I am a little bit of a rat
Why dont you post as frequently anymore?
Mostly a time issue. I dont make a lot of money of youtube. and so i have had to have youtube as more of a hobby while i work next to it :)
@@Jerrycanooo oh ok have fun ❤️:)
there are actually like 5 maps i like out of the what, 20-30 maps?
While i think Flanders is probably one of the most unbalanced maps, fields of Normandy is undoubtedly the worst to play, specifically after the changes last patch.
Tunisia is fighting hard for that title rn
I honestly despise playing Fields of Normandy. Every time I see it on the loading screen, I always consider immediately leaving the battle.
All to most maps in game are terrible and unfun to me, some take a long time to get to objectives and the action and others are just awful designs. So ya :)
real ones saw this on the stream
besides the spawn to spawn comparison being bad i do agree with all your points. personally I would rather play vietnam over poland though as that map is straight ass in anything above 5.0
you found the spawn to spawn bad? i just choose the 2 closest points(that i know of)😃 where you could look into the enemy's spawn. granted i agree it is not perfect and i am open to constructive criticism 😀, is there any way i could of made it a fairer comparison? 😀
@@Jerrycanooo the path you took for the g4 spawn felt unrealistic as why would a player come out of spawn and go sharp left following the road instead of crossing through the open field? Surely if they wanted to go left side of the upper area they would have just spawned in g2 right? Sorry if it comes off as rude as its not my intention. Great vid none the less!
@@egg3666 the reason i did that is if you start going over the field you can get shot by light tanks pushing the b point usually. so you never make it up the hill. But definitely a fair criticism😀
@@Jerrycanooo i think i might have gotten confused then because at 4:11 you made it sound like it was right out of spawn as you say "whoever reaches critical map points first" then transitions to who can get into a spawncamping position. And from what you just said could be countered later in the match by people pushing/holding the middle B point. Corrent me if I'm misunderstanding something as I thought it was referring to the start of the match.
@@egg3666 i have probably not articulated it in a very good way😅
you nevr played world of tanks
JERRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Hello
Ive never heard of this game, sounds horrible
(This is sarcasm, saying this for the people who dont have a sense of humor)
Imagine shaming people for not understanding sarcasm while actually spitting fax 🗣️
Sim maps in air rb makes me want to crash my plane into the closest building i dont want to spend 10 minutes flying around because someone decided to fly to the corner of the map 100km away...
>I asked Gaijin ...
>A grotesque Transmission on my screen
Thank God I quit playing.
bruh
Brah
52 views in 10 minutes, bro fell off
:()
3rd
First
nuh uh
Tf is this video
me posting about random shit at random times :)
@@Jerrycanooodamn
3:20 is that a man or a women?!
HI love the new type of vids. ver nice
Glad you like em, trying out some new stuff and seeing how it goes :)