It's always a joy to hear Howard Zinn's calm gentle voice talk about anything at all and know you are hearing an honest man talk. Rest in peace, Howard.
We must be watching something different. I view him as a late batty professor. However, I do agree with his perspective about POTUS Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize. th-cam.com/video/1cDFmMDKhww/w-d-xo.html&t=43
@@maiyenish8552 He shouldn't have. Anyone who appreciates Howard Zinn and the gravity of his teachings would know Obama was undeserving of the Nobel. The comment about his battyness is understood, but only if you don't have a burning respect for his integrity, passion and raw courage to stick his neck out for his fellow human. He is one of the most important writers/academics in American history, no question
@@saskk2290 Anybody who has a playlist of Glenn Greenwald obtains my respect! Let me copy and paste a reply, which I made 3 years ago, pertaining to this video. (one of the 400+ comments) ----------------------------------------------------------- What a batty professor. Great to provide a different perspective, (he should be awarded the alternative Historian award). He is still batty! Batty professor thinks the Revolution War legitimized slavery, because it was written into the Constitution. REAL HISTORY: the word "slaves" was omitted from the Constitution in order to improve the probability that the Constitution would be accepted in the Northern states. Actually, the U.S. Constitution began to place limitations. He translates 600,000 lives lost in Civil War as equivalent to 5,000,000 million today (population proportion), but doesn't translate the 4,000,000 freed blacks into 35,000,000 blacks equivalents. He then proceeds to discount President Lincoln's many sleepless nights of how to preserve the union. The South saw the writing on the wall, and didn't want to move in the direction of getting rid of slavery. Howard Zinn never touched on the real problems of war, as was described by POTUS Eisenhower: th-cam.com/video/8y06NSBBRtY/w-d-xo.html What a batty professor. Rest in Peace.
+Liz Walley To elaborate on my earlier comment, he cherry picks minor details and quotes obscure or irrelevant sources. An example of this is in his book, The People's History of the United States. In a passage about Pearl Harbor, he has the audacity to portray Japan as the true victim when the US cut off oil to protest Japan's expansion in to the Pacific Islands and cites an obscure Indian judge who though that the US was to blame for the start of world war 2. And in his rant about the atomic bomb, he mentioned that there were unconfirmed reports about a unconditional surrender then goes on to condemn the US for not excepting an unconfirmed conditional surrender.
What a wonderful, wise, humorous human being he was! He actually visited one of the towns he was partially responsible for bombing in World War Two, and apologized to people there. He had great humility. He was so knowledgeable about history and yet never made you feel like he was smarter than you. Howard Zinn made you realize that re-examining history and what we assume to be true is actually fun.
Mrdascher I agree with your sentiments. For me Zinn's writings his research and analysis of history is a breath of fresh air. To hear him speak is inspiring. His clarity and ability to communicate a critical understanding of the dynamics of how we can begin to think about past and future wars is enlightening and brilliant....wish l could have been in his classes dialogued with him and be his friend. He has given us the tools to see our collective global community critically in the legacy of his many writings. Please read too!
What a marvelous man in sharing his most profound viewpoints and examples of the horrors of wars and the inequalities and injustices that emerge out of them !
'May your memory always be a blessing' , Howard Zinn, your lecture is enlightening as always. War starts with it's means to an end of which the end is always uncertain, I love how you said, ' we have brains and we can rethink war by using other means to resolve a conflict of interest.' It costs way to much to compensate, however, there are some just wars.
I'm British, and I remember once in a History class (mandatory, mind you) having a frank discussion with our teachers on the costs and the benefits of our Empire and the entry into WWI and such like. We generally came down against our own country in these debates. Does this happen in American History Classes very often?
Not at all. It was not until I luckily had free-thinking college professors of cinema, philosophy, sociology, political science and speech that these conversations happened. My philosophy professor asked us to think of tolerance and justice on the Hiroshima bomb. Was that an act of terrorism? He matched that question after talking about 9/11. My own speech teacher was even against Americans killing Osama Bin Laden (a current event at the time). That only creates more enemies, and she is right.
I'm from Canada, and we generally do have good discussions and awareness about our history, especially in regard to treatment toward our Native population. However, I feel we need to do more to become aware of our history in wars and many other topics (including what I mentioned above) as well.
When speaking of the cost of War, he is very right, but there are so many more that suffer..... The effect on the families can last for many generations in many ways......
One scholarly mind that is still very needed in a sea of ignorantly controlled masses! Miss you dearly Dr. Zinn! May you rest after the battles you've fought for us.
How I wish there was a heaven. How I wish Howard Zinn could be there and for us all to join him. Alas we must endure a world without him, and the hope that we may become as beautiful.
I'm sure you believed yourself to be deep when writing that, but just because you don't believe in a heaven doesn't mean there isn't but I guess you'll find out when you meet your end.
@@saskk2290 you speak with certainty like you know. But then again this is the internet so I wouldn't be surprised if you claimed to hold a PhD in the after-life.
It's an amazing thing to be able to consider dark subjects for a lengthy period of time. It's an even harder one to manage those things with any success.
How we would love to have him with us now! Or at least that his writings were at least suggested reading in schools instead of the "history" we are taught.
Those who are fearful of a closer look often resort to slander, name-calling, etc.... I am thankful that Howard Zinn has been enthusiastic and scholarly in his research. From a variety of viewpoints, experiences, and honest questioning comes a more realistic picture of our past.
+Liz Walley His writings contain numerous factual errors and he is even quoted as saying history should be biased. He goes out of his way to make the US evil or selfish in every decision or action and Stalin as the misunderstood hero.
Those are very general statements. I could just as easily say that Samuel Swift's comments on TH-cam are erroneous, biased, and opinionated. I've been reading Zinn's work for years and find it factual and enlightening. How about some references to back up your comments? Where are the quotes you refer to? Where has he gone "out of his way" to paint someone in a bad light?
I love Howard Zinn. God Bless you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for showing that History does not belong to the higher ups. It is A PEOPLE'S History
I’d find it quite impossible to trust any person who tried to tell me that this man isn’t an actual, real life, patriot. He’s one of the very few who are. Or who were, I suppose. RIP, Howard Zinn🌹
Thank you for that. Too many people don't know what Patriotism even is! It's not running around in a 4x4 pickup with a giant flag in the bed. I think it means to act in the best interest of one's country and fellow citizens. peace
The point I'm getting at is that with our current form of government, you get people ripping you off from different angles and then pointing fingers at each other. If there were (as is supposed to be the case) more accountability for what happens in government, at least those doing the job would care a little more. It would seem that the smaller the group of leaders we have the accountability would increase for each individual.
let's just re-member our humanness, our purpose; it is NOT fighting 'others', it is NOT living under oppression; it is NOT about globalization as understood as 'uniformizing' humanity. It is NOT about 'normalizing' everyone and everything ~ Rather, let's find common ground on the fact we are human , way beyond ethnicity ... Let's re-member ourselves to be a species living on this so-called planet Earth, existence as it happens to be ~
Apartheid ended... That's like saying the Junk Yard's closed, taking down the sign, but the Junk Yard's there...and still running. It just calls itself a Pawn Shop now.
Maurice McDonald Right, and it’s a shame, but the point Zinn was getting at is would war have necessarily brought the best possible outcome? He readily admitted that the cause would have obviously been just/good, but the means are necessarily horrific, and the ends are uncertain, and that’s the ultimate point. It’s not like he was saying, Apartheid ended without war, and everything is fine now. He did point out the simple fact, however, that war would have necessarily guaranteed the suffering and misery of many more people. Maybe your point, which I recognize was made 5 years ago, so there’s a high likelihood that you’ll never even see this, BUT maybe your point wasn’t meant to imply that his point was mute, or silly, or irrelevant, I have no clue. I’m not assuming it was or wasn’t, just to be clear, just as I’m not assuming that you were calling for war, or anything else really. However, I can definitely see why someone else might read that, given that your point is also valid, so my purpose is merely to point out that, despite the validity of your comment, the point that Zinn was making is in no way lessened or silly, etc... As he pointed out with the failures of the US government, and others, post US Civil War: slavery ended via a war, and yes it likely ended sooner, and yes, that’s a good thing, but the justice that was birthed from that is a stunted justice, which really isn’t really justice at all. (I use that instance bc it’s parallel in many ways to apartheid South Africa.) How do we deal with that, or the situation in South Africa, or in Haiti, etc etc? There’s only one way to deal with it, the same as it’s always been: for people to rise en mass, collectively, and say we’re not following the “rules” anymore, if the rules don’t actually mean “justice for ALL”, so if you all (those in power) would like to continue to live peacefully (if at all) in these parts, you’d better make some serious concessions, and you’d better not try to screw us over again, bc we know our best interests, and we outnumber you by pretty serious numbers, and at the end of the day, we don’t actually need you around at all, in order for the rest of us to live a happy, peaceful, JUST existence. In other words, people need to have class consciousness, and they need to be willing to take a risk by threatening the power of the status quo, bc that status quo is unjust. That’s pretty much the only way to peacefully (relatively, that is) get the kind of changes that would create justice. Anyway, I’ve gone on way too long, and it’s likely that you, mr OP, likely won’t even see this reply, but hopefully it’s useful to someone. Peace and love to all... ♾🏴❤️✊🏽✊🏿✊🏼✊🏾❤️🏴♾
@nikolademitri731 South Africa under Apartheid was a first world nation, now it's a shit hole. Indians, Whites, the Colureds, and even honest Blacks will agree. BTW, Zinn's cousins in South Africa largely funded the ANC, while his cousins in Israel helped the Afrikaners.
💯 correct, many books. What about the poet " The Leaves of Grass," who was he? Hint: He was gay and he sat by the bedside of many soldiers and helped as an aid during the Civil War. Thank you, Howard Zinn, for being an example to all of us still today, 2023. Cornel West for president 2024!!!! 🙏❤️🌎🕊🎶🎵📚
This guy speaks the truth. After Korean war, both north and south were under authoritarian dictatorship. North had (still has) left wing authoritarian government, and south started from right-wing authoritarian government. South Korea went through change in government total of six times (1st republic, 2nd republic, 3rd (president park era), ....6th republic (current one)). Park Jung Hee overthrew government via military coup. President Jeon Doo hwan also took over government by military force during the 80s. The 80s era in South Korea was the rightwing authoritarian nightmare. President Jeon set up the samchung concentration camp to beat and treat criminals, degenerates like a dog. Look these up.
One of my new year's resolutions for 2015: Do not debate any self-described "libertarian" who hasn't read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States". On a related note, Wikipedia claims that Howard Zinn lived to at least the age of 88. Tough man for being so soft-spoken and empathetic.
3:00 21:00 26:50 29:50 31:25 Published on May 16, 2009 Zinn was swimming in a hotel pool when he died of an apparent heart attack[74] in Santa Monica, California, on *January* 27, 2010 [54 °F], aged 87. He had been scheduled to speak at Crossroads School (Santa Monica, California) and Santa Monica Museum of Art for an event titled "A Collection of Ideas".
What a fabulous speech; and a real human being. We can use our human creative abilities to solve problems, where history has shown that ignorance and impatience are common enemies of human potential.
What he was trying to say to us is: WAKE UP! *You're Being Boiled Like Frogs!* *WAKE UP!* hop out of the pot and knock that shit over! It's a -shell game- and *you* ARE the target of the grift. *WAKE UP!*
Saw Mr. Zinn at Morehead State in 2003 (I believe it was 2003). Listening again here brings back so many memories of that experience... I share with Mr. Zinn the belief that wars must be avoided at all costs, but I also question how long we wait when timing is sensitive? How about situations where waiting means (for instance) that an entire culture is wiped off the face of the earth- such as the Holocaust? Would anything besides military force have stopped Hitler?
Actually it was over 60 million that died in WWII. Double that many were wounded. So many more than that were displaced and homeless throughout Europe, Russia, and Asia. Soldiers came home with nightmares after what they experienced. Especially those that liberated the Concentration Camps. Some even committed suicide. And yet that was the "good war".
Professor Zinn points out how History studies/lessons in our Public Schools, even up to Graduate Level, is pre-packaged and pre-filtered. Zinn shows us how we need to question everything, turn every rock over, and look at history from many vantage points. But because TRUE HISTORY runs counter to our myth induced social conditioning, many will rebuke his message because they wish to be told 'How To Think' and 'What To Believe'.
Two things: first, Zinn doesn't describe What action would have stopped Hitler's murderous regime: Strikes? Protests? I seriously doubt it. They would have been brutally repressed and their leaders thrown into the same death camps as the Jews, Gypsies and those that did protest. Look it up; the few brave Germans that did protest were thrown into the same death camps as the others. Secondly, Zinn is being knowingly disingenuous about "the cost of the Civil war in ending slavery"; he knows that slavery was not the reason the war was fought; the South wanted to break away and form its own country. Lincoln freed the slaves in the South: he Didn't free the slaves in the North. He did it only because England was considering entering the war on the side of the South. It was only until after the end of the war that Lincoln ended slavery in the North; he exempted several Northern states for the duration of the war. Not something Lincoln fans like to recognize.....
John Richardson Before invade Polony Hitler wanted to have a part of Checoslovakya (the sudets) and he asked permision to England an France government and they give him. Checoslovakya was "to far" to protect so they prefer to give him because they believe that would stop him. Then Hitler wanted more teritories and Chamberlain even forced the president of Checoslovaquia to give Hitler the territories so they dont need to help them against that invasion. He go further and even say that i"f there was more men like hitler the peace in Europe would be secure". At the end Hitler took over All Checoslovakia because nobady help theme or tell Hitler to stop their expansionism. Then Polony, the Netherlands etc. Hitler grown bigger because no powerfull govermente at the time told him to stop.
I agree. He idealized his solution, just as many have idealized those three wars. If his family was in a concentration camp he might see things quite differently. I love Howard Zinn, by the way. But he wasn't always right IMO.
No Aqua' you have inevitabilized your understanding of WW2. As Zinn said we are want to. It is only from that position you then assume yours. What JR above is saying is akin to the creationaists arguing evolution is untrue because how can an eye ever come from no intent and direction, which is to say JR can ony say that the two things that he thought don't look like they would have stopped HItler. Perhaps JR just hasn't thought hard or well enough to imagine how something could have stopped Hitler short of war.
@BenjaminLaird Brother I am a Canadian too and int e charter of rights there are clauses which pretty much means that we are free so long as there is relative peace but there are many clauses which put us in a situation similar to a vassal state especially under war conditions, look it up I read about it back in high school.
Also, Benjamin Franklin was against the Revolutionary War, but preferred a solution which Canada used - be under dominion of England and then achieve independence.
![[Official Music Video] ฝังใจ - BOW Maylada [Prod. By Tan LIPTA]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rSjk1jKWRN4/mqdefault.jpg)
"Let's stop spending money we don't have, to kill people we don't know, for reasons we don't understand."
Teller
*They* know. Just you don't. Because you are reading redacted shit.
@@mrgruust8679 oh yeah? What redacted shit would that b?
The businesses that profit from wars have a good reason.
💯 correct
It's always a joy to hear Howard Zinn's calm gentle voice talk about anything at all and know you are hearing an honest man talk. Rest in peace, Howard.
his sense of humor, burning emotions for humanity, humane attitude to students and audiences, depth of knowledge has left a prodigious impact on me.
We must be watching something different. I view him as a late batty professor.
However, I do agree with his perspective about POTUS Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
th-cam.com/video/1cDFmMDKhww/w-d-xo.html&t=43
@@maiyenish8552 Your depth of understanding is nonexistent.
@@debbievretis5012 Please explain why Obama should have received the Nobel Peace Prize.
@@maiyenish8552 He shouldn't have. Anyone who appreciates Howard Zinn and the gravity of his teachings would know Obama was undeserving of the Nobel.
The comment about his battyness is understood, but only if you don't have a burning respect for his integrity, passion and raw courage to stick his neck out for his fellow human. He is one of the most important writers/academics in American history, no question
@@saskk2290 Anybody who has a playlist of Glenn Greenwald obtains my respect!
Let me copy and paste a reply, which I made 3 years ago, pertaining to this video. (one of the 400+ comments)
-----------------------------------------------------------
What a batty professor. Great to provide a different perspective, (he should be awarded the alternative Historian award).
He is still batty!
Batty professor thinks the Revolution War legitimized slavery, because it was written into the Constitution.
REAL HISTORY: the word "slaves" was omitted from the Constitution in order to improve the probability that the Constitution would be accepted in the Northern states.
Actually, the U.S. Constitution began to place limitations.
He translates 600,000 lives lost in Civil War as equivalent to 5,000,000 million today (population proportion), but doesn't translate the 4,000,000 freed blacks into 35,000,000 blacks equivalents.
He then proceeds to discount President Lincoln's many sleepless nights of how to preserve the union. The South saw the writing on the wall, and didn't want to move in the direction of getting rid of slavery.
Howard Zinn never touched on the real problems of war, as was described by POTUS Eisenhower:
th-cam.com/video/8y06NSBBRtY/w-d-xo.html
What a batty professor. Rest in Peace.
"Between war and pacificity there are a thousand possibilities. (Howard Zinn, 2009)
One of the best reasoned beautiful speechs I ever heard.
There is no one who can speak like Howard Zinn ! ! If only we had him in todays's world ! !
i love this old man! I love to watch his talks. RIP Howard Zinn
He had a youthful spirit, and an old soul. ;)
One of the few heroes in my life. R.I.P. Howard Zinn...
What a shame he's not still with us. We need him more than ever.
You mean that self-loathing communist pseudo-historian?
What exactly about Zinn's conclusions do you feel lack sound research?
+Liz Walley To elaborate on my earlier comment, he cherry picks minor details and quotes obscure or irrelevant sources. An example of this is in his book, The People's History of the United States. In a passage about Pearl Harbor, he has the audacity to portray Japan as the true victim when the US cut off oil to protest Japan's expansion in to the Pacific Islands and cites an obscure Indian judge who though that the US was to blame for the start of world war 2. And in his rant about the atomic bomb, he mentioned that there were unconfirmed reports about a unconditional surrender then goes on to condemn the US for not excepting an unconfirmed conditional surrender.
www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_weber.html
nuclearfiles.org/menu/library/correspondence/togo-sato/corr_togo-sato.htm
he did his part. what we need is the next him
What a wonderful, wise, humorous human being he was! He actually visited one of the towns he was partially responsible for bombing in World War Two, and apologized to people there. He had great humility. He was so knowledgeable about history and yet never made you feel like he was smarter than you. Howard Zinn made you realize that re-examining history and what we assume to be true is actually fun.
Mrdascher I agree with your sentiments. For me Zinn's writings his research and analysis of history is a breath of fresh air. To hear him speak is inspiring. His clarity and ability to communicate a critical understanding of the dynamics of how we can begin to think about past and future wars is enlightening and brilliant....wish l could have been in his classes dialogued with him and be his friend. He has given us the tools to see our collective global community critically in the legacy of his many writings. Please read too!
RIP🙏❤️ Howard Zinn.
2023 now.
Cornel West for president 2024
I love watching Howard Zinn one of the greatest Historian and Philosopher, The Truth that people don't talk about
I like Zinn. He is a human being.
This is the history that should be taught in every high school. This is not his-story, its the untold our-story.
On January 27, 2010 the world was losing such a great man. Rest in peace.
A great voice for sanity, reason, and truth has passed from this world. The world's a bit darker today than it was yesterday. R.I.P., Dr. Zinn.
You made me cry, the way u ended your lecture legendary Zinn.
I don't expect all people to agree with this man but he was absolutely necessary for the strength of our communication of history.
What a marvelous man in sharing his most profound viewpoints and examples of the horrors of wars and the inequalities and injustices that emerge out of them !
Fascism is here after all. You don't win anything with wars, only with free and real education.
'May your memory always be a blessing' , Howard Zinn, your lecture is enlightening as always. War starts with it's means to an end of which the end is always uncertain, I love how you said, ' we have brains and we can rethink war by using other means to resolve a conflict of interest.' It costs way to much to compensate, however, there are some just wars.
Wow, what a great speech! And what a great man he was.
I'm British, and I remember once in a History class (mandatory, mind you) having a frank discussion with our teachers on the costs and the benefits of our Empire and the entry into WWI and such like. We generally came down against our own country in these debates. Does this happen in American History Classes very often?
sadly no!
Obviously not, Zinn ist also a product of the American education system.
Not at all. It was not until I luckily had free-thinking college professors of cinema, philosophy, sociology, political science and speech that these conversations happened. My philosophy professor asked us to think of tolerance and justice on the Hiroshima bomb. Was that an act of terrorism? He matched that question after talking about 9/11. My own speech teacher was even against Americans killing Osama Bin Laden (a current event at the time). That only creates more enemies, and she is right.
I'm from Canada, and we generally do have good discussions and awareness about our history, especially in regard to treatment toward our Native population. However, I feel we need to do more to become aware of our history in wars and many other topics (including what I mentioned above) as well.
I am reading the Myth of a Good War. Dresden's fate is especially distressing.
What a great historian! Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom!
When speaking of the cost of War, he is very right, but there are so many more that suffer..... The effect on the families can last for many generations in many ways......
"When I got out of school I began to learn things" 16:15
One scholarly mind that is still very needed in a sea of ignorantly controlled masses! Miss you dearly Dr. Zinn! May you rest after the battles you've fought for us.
How I wish there was a heaven. How I wish Howard Zinn could be there and for us all to join him. Alas we must endure a world without him, and the hope that we may become as beautiful.
I'm sure you believed yourself to be deep when writing that, but just because you don't believe in a heaven doesn't mean there isn't but I guess you'll find out when you meet your end.
@@UnknownSend3r Spoiler alert: there isn't one. Maybe you've come to that realization in the last few years. Cheers
@@saskk2290 you speak with certainty like you know. But then again this is the internet so I wouldn't be surprised if you claimed to hold a PhD in the after-life.
"i went to the library! there's nothing like a library."
It's an amazing thing to be able to consider dark subjects for a lengthy period of time.
It's an even harder one to manage those things with any success.
How we would love to have him with us now! Or at least that his writings were at least suggested reading in schools instead of the "history" we are taught.
His writings are self-loathing garbage propaganda to put it bluntly.
Those who are fearful of a closer look often resort to slander, name-calling, etc.... I am thankful that Howard Zinn has been enthusiastic and scholarly in his research. From a variety of viewpoints, experiences, and honest questioning comes a more realistic picture of our past.
+Liz Walley His writings contain numerous factual errors and he is even quoted as saying history should be biased. He goes out of his way to make the US evil or selfish in every decision or action and Stalin as the misunderstood hero.
Those are very general statements. I could just as easily say that Samuel Swift's comments on TH-cam are erroneous, biased, and opinionated. I've been reading Zinn's work for years and find it factual and enlightening.
How about some references to back up your comments? Where are the quotes you refer to? Where has he gone "out of his way" to paint someone in a bad light?
+Liz Walley Read my other comment I left you when you asked for proof.
Love Zinn
I love Howard Zinn. God Bless you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for showing that History does not belong to the higher ups. It is A PEOPLE'S History
Very wise and honest old guy. Candid in his beliefs and I for one, intend to study more of his work
Much respect for this greatest historian of truth.
Howard Zinn, you will be missed.
I’d find it quite impossible to trust any person who tried to tell me that this man isn’t an actual, real life, patriot.
He’s one of the very few who are. Or who were, I suppose.
RIP, Howard Zinn🌹
Thank you for that. Too many people don't know what Patriotism even is! It's not running around in a 4x4 pickup with a giant flag in the bed. I think it means to act in the best interest of one's country and fellow citizens. peace
"As long as man exists, there will always be war." -Albert Einstein
I wish we could have met.You were a great man that we need so bad.
Agreed. We need to look back on our past and admit our wrongs if we ever hope to move on
Zinn's the most important public speaker making waves out today. thank god he's healthy enough to keep spreading the truth!
Thank you REAL NEWS, and thank you Professor Zinn, I enjoyed this speech very much.
great humanitarian and courageous patriot
i go around looking for people that think like me also...thank god for howard zinn...and rest in peace.
Well there is one in France Mr. Zinn who shares Your views ! and is glad to have found You !
The point I'm getting at is that with our current form of government, you get people ripping you off from different angles and then pointing fingers at each other. If there were (as is supposed to be the case) more accountability for what happens in government, at least those doing the job would care a little more. It would seem that the smaller the group of leaders we have the accountability would increase for each individual.
Very sad he is gone we need another one who takes and continue his work?
33:50 "in between war and passivity there are a thousand possibilities" - Howard Zinn.
Thank you Howard Zinn!!!!!!!!
Fantastic!
Thank you for posting this extended talk by the great Howard Zinn.
Howard Zinn at his best. Awesome talk.
"I think the guy who is moderating this has fallen asleep." - Howard Zinn
We love you Zinn
let's just re-member our humanness, our purpose; it is NOT fighting 'others', it is NOT living under oppression; it is NOT about globalization as understood as 'uniformizing' humanity. It is NOT about 'normalizing' everyone and everything ~
Rather, let's find common ground on the fact we are human , way beyond ethnicity ...
Let's re-member ourselves to be a species living on this so-called planet Earth, existence as it happens to be ~
Fact 💯
Revive this because its important again.
Just Say no to wars Justified by our version of 'Justice'.
Apartheid ended...
That's like saying the Junk Yard's closed, taking down the sign, but the Junk Yard's there...and still running. It just calls itself a Pawn Shop now.
Maurice McDonald Right, and it’s a shame, but the point Zinn was getting at is would war have necessarily brought the best possible outcome? He readily admitted that the cause would have obviously been just/good, but the means are necessarily horrific, and the ends are uncertain, and that’s the ultimate point. It’s not like he was saying, Apartheid ended without war, and everything is fine now. He did point out the simple fact, however, that war would have necessarily guaranteed the suffering and misery of many more people.
Maybe your point, which I recognize was made 5 years ago, so there’s a high likelihood that you’ll never even see this, BUT maybe your point wasn’t meant to imply that his point was mute, or silly, or irrelevant, I have no clue. I’m not assuming it was or wasn’t, just to be clear, just as I’m not assuming that you were calling for war, or anything else really. However, I can definitely see why someone else might read that, given that your point is also valid, so my purpose is merely to point out that, despite the validity of your comment, the point that Zinn was making is in no way lessened or silly, etc... As he pointed out with the failures of the US government, and others, post US Civil War: slavery ended via a war, and yes it likely ended sooner, and yes, that’s a good thing, but the justice that was birthed from that is a stunted justice, which really isn’t really justice at all. (I use that instance bc it’s parallel in many ways to apartheid South Africa.) How do we deal with that, or the situation in South Africa, or in Haiti, etc etc? There’s only one way to deal with it, the same as it’s always been: for people to rise en mass, collectively, and say we’re not following the “rules” anymore, if the rules don’t actually mean “justice for ALL”, so if you all (those in power) would like to continue to live peacefully (if at all) in these parts, you’d better make some serious concessions, and you’d better not try to screw us over again, bc we know our best interests, and we outnumber you by pretty serious numbers, and at the end of the day, we don’t actually need you around at all, in order for the rest of us to live a happy, peaceful, JUST existence. In other words, people need to have class consciousness, and they need to be willing to take a risk by threatening the power of the status quo, bc that status quo is unjust. That’s pretty much the only way to peacefully (relatively, that is) get the kind of changes that would create justice.
Anyway, I’ve gone on way too long, and it’s likely that you, mr OP, likely won’t even see this reply, but hopefully it’s useful to someone. Peace and love to all...
♾🏴❤️✊🏽✊🏿✊🏼✊🏾❤️🏴♾
@nikolademitri731
South Africa under Apartheid was a first world nation, now it's a shit hole. Indians, Whites, the Colureds, and even honest Blacks will agree.
BTW, Zinn's cousins in South Africa largely funded the ANC, while his cousins in Israel helped the Afrikaners.
A Beautiful mind ....
very moving
A great man, greatly missed.
Pure knowledge.
Wonderful to listen to Howard Zinn tell his version of the Three Holy Wars in America.
💯 correct, many books. What about the poet " The Leaves of Grass," who was he? Hint: He was gay and he sat by the bedside of many soldiers and helped as an aid during the Civil War.
Thank you, Howard Zinn, for being an example to all of us still today, 2023.
Cornel West for president 2024!!!!
🙏❤️🌎🕊🎶🎵📚
Great speech, Zinn! I like this guy. And I am glad RealNews posted this.
Brilliant!
This guy speaks the truth. After Korean war, both north and south were under authoritarian dictatorship. North had (still has) left wing authoritarian government, and south started from right-wing authoritarian government. South Korea went through change in government total of six times (1st republic, 2nd republic, 3rd (president park era), ....6th republic (current one)). Park Jung Hee overthrew government via military coup. President Jeon Doo hwan also took over government by military force during the 80s. The 80s era in South Korea was the rightwing authoritarian nightmare. President Jeon set up the samchung concentration camp to beat and treat criminals, degenerates like a dog. Look these up.
The vast majority of those killed were in the north, murdered from the air. The infrastructure in the north became totally dysfunctional as well.
At last a good post from Real News.
Amazing man...
Chares, you're never gonna get even 1% of the love and respect that Howard Zinn enjoyed from all over the world.
pure genius.
0:48 "Ever hear anybody say anything bad about the Founding Fathers?" No, Howard, you were the FIRST EVER.
I enjoyed Howard Zinn's speech. I find we are of like mind. :o)
respect sir
brilliant
One of my new year's resolutions for 2015: Do not debate any self-described "libertarian" who hasn't read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".
On a related note, Wikipedia claims that Howard Zinn lived to at least the age of 88. Tough man for being so soft-spoken and empathetic.
Why should be have to read his self-hate filled dairy?
Nathan Hale... Because There are two kinds of fools; those who can’t change their opinion and those who won’t.
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31:25
Published on May 16, 2009
Zinn was swimming in a hotel pool when he died of an apparent heart attack[74] in Santa Monica, California, on *January* 27, 2010 [54 °F], aged 87. He had been scheduled to speak at Crossroads School (Santa Monica, California) and Santa Monica Museum of Art for an event titled "A Collection of Ideas".
Impressive.
"Between war and pacifity there are a thousand possibilities."
What a fabulous speech; and a real human being. We can use our human creative abilities to solve problems, where history has shown that ignorance and impatience are common enemies of human potential.
31:30 "War is, by definition, the indiscriminate killing of huge numbers of people for ends that are uncertain." -- Howard Zinn
What he was trying to say to us is:
WAKE UP! *You're Being Boiled Like Frogs!* *WAKE UP!* hop out of the pot and knock that shit over! It's a -shell game- and *you* ARE
the target of the grift. *WAKE UP!*
I get the drift of what he is saying, "Just cause does not itself alone make for a just war foresight is needed before the war drums are banged".
A very intelligent man. Real talk from the Irish Media Nerd
Saw Mr. Zinn at Morehead State in 2003 (I believe it was 2003). Listening again here brings back so many memories of that experience... I share with Mr. Zinn the belief that wars must be avoided at all costs, but I also question how long we wait when timing is sensitive? How about situations where waiting means (for instance) that an entire culture is wiped off the face of the earth- such as the Holocaust? Would anything besides military force have stopped Hitler?
War is a Racket.
Smedley Butler
peace now
its the only way forward for mankind now
Actually it was over 60 million that died in WWII. Double that many were wounded. So many more than that were displaced and homeless throughout Europe, Russia, and Asia. Soldiers came home with nightmares after what they experienced. Especially those that liberated the Concentration Camps. Some even committed suicide. And yet that was the "good war".
Only people who hate the truth would say that. He only tells the truth, which is undeniable.
never ceases to amaze me how people are always there to say they know better. Even when it's fucking HOWARD ZINN
Zinn is my hero!
A TRUTHFUL history lesson.
Professor Zinn points out how History studies/lessons in our Public Schools, even up to Graduate Level, is pre-packaged and pre-filtered.
Zinn shows us how we need to question everything, turn every rock over, and look at history from many vantage points.
But because TRUE HISTORY runs counter to our myth induced social conditioning, many will rebuke his message because they wish to be told 'How To Think' and 'What To Believe'.
and patriotism is not allways bad, America is not allways bad, matter of a fact better than most superpowers in history, that he could have mentioned.
Howard Zinn, THINKER: the pause between "just cause", to which action then?
Two things: first, Zinn doesn't describe What action would have stopped Hitler's murderous regime: Strikes? Protests? I seriously doubt it. They would have been brutally repressed and their leaders thrown into the same death camps as the Jews, Gypsies and those that did protest. Look it up; the few brave Germans that did protest were thrown into the same death camps as the others.
Secondly, Zinn is being knowingly disingenuous about "the cost of the Civil war in ending slavery"; he knows that slavery was not the reason the war was fought; the South wanted to break away and form its own country. Lincoln freed the slaves in the South: he Didn't free the slaves in the North. He did it only because England was considering entering the war on the side of the South. It was only until after the end of the war that Lincoln ended slavery in the North; he exempted several Northern states for the duration of the war. Not something Lincoln fans like to recognize.....
Papo Puggle ................. right.
I'm dizzy after reading your comment.
Time for bed.
The US could have taken in the Jews, but of course there was little support for that.
John Richardson Before invade Polony Hitler wanted to have a part of Checoslovakya (the sudets) and he asked permision to England an France government and they give him. Checoslovakya was "to far" to protect so they prefer to give him because they believe that would stop him. Then Hitler wanted more teritories and Chamberlain even forced the president of Checoslovaquia to give Hitler the territories so they dont need to help them against that invasion. He go further and even say that i"f there was more men like hitler the peace in Europe would be secure". At the end Hitler took over All Checoslovakia because nobady help theme or tell Hitler to stop their expansionism. Then Polony, the Netherlands etc. Hitler grown bigger because no powerfull govermente at the time told him to stop.
I agree. He idealized his solution, just as many have idealized those three wars. If his family was in a concentration camp he might see things quite differently.
I love Howard Zinn, by the way. But he wasn't always right IMO.
No Aqua' you have inevitabilized your understanding of WW2. As Zinn said we are want to. It is only from that position you then assume yours. What JR above is saying is akin to the creationaists arguing evolution is untrue because how can an eye ever come from no intent and direction, which is to say JR can ony say that the two things that he thought don't look like they would have stopped HItler. Perhaps JR just hasn't thought hard or well enough to imagine how something could have stopped Hitler short of war.
i'm a canadian & it is totally independent, the british have no real control anymore.
Howard Zinn is made of awesome. Does anyone else think he sounds like Christopher Walken?
Well, there are a few of us who know the truth about the "good wars" .
.
What else does this guy say that's so remarkable?
Point taken, keep passing it on. Change is inevitable...
We got your point Howard
@BenjaminLaird Brother I am a Canadian too and int e charter of rights there are clauses which pretty much means that we are free so long as there is relative peace but there are many clauses which put us in a situation similar to a vassal state especially under war conditions, look it up I read about it back in high school.
Also, Benjamin Franklin was against the Revolutionary War, but preferred a solution which Canada used - be under dominion of England and then achieve independence.