The problem with achievement systems (and leaderboards etc.) is that the only measure to prevent fake achievements seems to be an intrusive anti-tampering/anti-cheat system, preferably with the game-logic being always-online server-side. You can see why for most people it would be not worth it and it feels like a trojan horse for these anti-cosnumer practices.
This has been an issue for ages. I remember people using something like this to make people think they were playing Portal 2 before release. The thing is, for Steam there are always issues to work on that might genuinely be losing them money. People faking which game they are playing or faking achievements just aren't even on that list.
This is a pretty common knowledge among the cheaters afaik, tools like SAM has been here since forever to help people 100% a game achievement instantly.
It doesn't affect anything. Wouldn't even call it a problem. I don't care if other people spend their time cheating achievements or what game they're playing... I care about my achievements and what I'm playing. I have everything set to private anyway. PS: This channel is a great find, found you through the video about setting a global script (autoload). Subscribed with the little bell thing, good stuff. 👍
this "problem" is impossible to solve currently, because games have to somehow signal that they are running, meaning that unless every game is rewritten with support of some kind of steam helper service, there will always be a way to fake the fact that you're playing a game. i don't think it will ever get "fixed" nor do i think valve considers it a problem, it looks like intentional design and there's no point in obfuscating the id, as it's also used for downloading, urls and more. come on, companies can't invent a drm that would prevent pirating, and "protecting" a thing as simple and ubiquitous as an ID, which is a single number that game itself has to know to use the steam api is simply impossible.
It's very simple steam could check a random part of the game files 256 megabites in size for example (speed reasons) then if the file was the same give achievements otherwise keep achievements client sided. the game could also list files to not check or disable the check entirely so that some old games achievements work. but steam wants user freedom so why change it. if working it could even be opt-out.
@@kristophia7310 well steam can check the game files all it wants - the files will be there, as they are downloaded. for such thing to be possible it wouldn't be done by checking files - instead checking the memory of a running process (which is also unpractical and easily spoofable).
Excellent video, though it's a non-issue. If you insist on having your players not cheat achievements, just put achievements in-game. E.g. trophy room or something, and have them unlock steam achievements. So if a user unlocks the steam achievement, it won't unlock the trophy/reward in-game. Steam Achievements break immersion anyway, as they don't fit in the reward context of your game.
Steam Achievement Manager probably does exactly this except you don't have to do anything by yourself. This is honestly pretty useful if the game doesn't give you an achievement you should have gotten without you having to do it all over again. I also don't really see the harm in this it's just achievements and if someone unlocks all achievements shortly after one another this will be visible for anyone on your profile because they will all have the same date and time which makes this rather obvious but then again I don't see where the issue is here.
i mean those exploits dont harm anyone so it isnt really a steam problem, its more like a you problem... if you want to unlock all achievements for what so ever, go ahead and do so, you dont have any benefits by doing it...
Wow, that’s surprising that it’s just in a notes file. I’m not too familiar with the development side of Steam, so this might be a dumb question, but do you know if anything special happens if you try to use an app id of a game you don’t own? Does it throw an error, or does nothing happen?
This is not a "problem", this is an expected behaviour. Maybe you don't like it, but it's. This makes easier to test while developing games for Steam. Users faking achievements is not a huge problem for Valve, developers or users in general. The only real alternative to this is DRM. But it would be expensive both for Valve and developers, harder to implement and annoying AND expensive for users, since they would need better machine to keep the performance with both DRM and game running. Some developers like SEGA are already doing this tho.
No lie I thought this was gonna be way worse. I legit thought it was going to be a way to play any game. Thank god it's not. I mean faking achievements is bad but not that bad. I mean what do you get besides the achievements?
Well, one thing you can do is on games that support steams p2p system, they can make pirated servers, etc. But in all honesty I just thought the topic was really interesting and it's slightly dramatized for yt
@@Gwizz1027Some are protected, one exemple I can think about is appid 1754720 , it has 67 achievements, 7 of which cannot be cheated, with SAM or with other tools, there are other titles but it's pretty rare.
Okay, this isn't (i think) connected with the things you said in the video because i didn't watch it yet, but it caught my attention because 2 hours before you released the video i got hacked and someone sold everything from my inventory and changed my language to japaneese.
@@Gwizz1027But why exactly do you have a problem with this as a developer? What is the issue in people unlocking achievements without playing the game? I'm genuinly interested because I can't think of many good reasons other then some games unlocking certain content through achievements, altough because this is so well known for years know (as can be seen by SAM aka. Steam Achievement Manager) if a developer does this they usually have a seperate achievement system built into the game that cannot be cheesed the same way.
@@Gwizz1027Yeah no I get that it's just how does unlocking the achievement impede that in any way? I mean sure there are probably some people that literally just do this to get 100% completion on random games they never play but I suspect most people who buy it do so to actually play it. It's not a hot take but I mean it's just achievements isn't it?
The problem with achievement systems (and leaderboards etc.) is that the only measure to prevent fake achievements seems to be an intrusive anti-tampering/anti-cheat system, preferably with the game-logic being always-online server-side. You can see why for most people it would be not worth it and it feels like a trojan horse for these anti-cosnumer practices.
I would assume they wouldnt really care unless it allowed you to download a game you didnt own, or if the achievements gave you money in some way.
This has been an issue for ages. I remember people using something like this to make people think they were playing Portal 2 before release.
The thing is, for Steam there are always issues to work on that might genuinely be losing them money. People faking which game they are playing or faking achievements just aren't even on that list.
I know, they've told me it's very low priority, I don't think they'll ever fix it
This is a pretty common knowledge among the cheaters afaik, tools like SAM has been here since forever to help people 100% a game achievement instantly.
It doesn't affect anything. Wouldn't even call it a problem.
I don't care if other people spend their time cheating achievements or what game they're playing...
I care about my achievements and what I'm playing. I have everything set to private anyway.
PS: This channel is a great find, found you through the video about setting a global script (autoload).
Subscribed with the little bell thing, good stuff. 👍
this "problem" is impossible to solve currently, because games have to somehow signal that they are running, meaning that unless every game is rewritten with support of some kind of steam helper service, there will always be a way to fake the fact that you're playing a game. i don't think it will ever get "fixed" nor do i think valve considers it a problem, it looks like intentional design and there's no point in obfuscating the id, as it's also used for downloading, urls and more.
come on, companies can't invent a drm that would prevent pirating, and "protecting" a thing as simple and ubiquitous as an ID, which is a single number that game itself has to know to use the steam api is simply impossible.
It's very simple steam could check a random part of the game files 256 megabites in size for example (speed reasons)
then if the file was the same give achievements otherwise keep achievements client sided.
the game could also list files to not check or disable the check entirely so that some old games achievements work.
but steam wants user freedom so why change it.
if working it could even be opt-out.
@@kristophia7310 well steam can check the game files all it wants - the files will be there, as they are downloaded. for such thing to be possible it wouldn't be done by checking files - instead checking the memory of a running process (which is also unpractical and easily spoofable).
@@handfuloffrogs but it lays off the responsibility to the game whom in games that is important in will already check for that stuff
As an OCD completionist, that's great when dealing with monotonically chorish grindy achievements!
Excellent video, though it's a non-issue. If you insist on having your players not cheat achievements, just put achievements in-game. E.g. trophy room or something, and have them unlock steam achievements. So if a user unlocks the steam achievement, it won't unlock the trophy/reward in-game. Steam Achievements break immersion anyway, as they don't fit in the reward context of your game.
I actually like this take, I didn't think about it this way :)
This is an excellent idea! I shall use this method for my game, thanks for sharing this. :)
Wait for what happens that Steam Achievement Manager is a thing
yeah the is over complicated lmfao
Steam Achievement Manager probably does exactly this except you don't have to do anything by yourself.
This is honestly pretty useful if the game doesn't give you an achievement you should have gotten without you having to do it all over again.
I also don't really see the harm in this it's just achievements and if someone unlocks all achievements shortly after one another this will be visible for anyone on your profile because they will all have the same date and time which makes this rather obvious but then again I don't see where the issue is here.
i mean those exploits dont harm anyone so it isnt really a steam problem, its more like a you problem... if you want to unlock all achievements for what so ever, go ahead and do so, you dont have any benefits by doing it...
Wow, that’s surprising that it’s just in a notes file. I’m not too familiar with the development side of Steam, so this might be a dumb question, but do you know if anything special happens if you try to use an app id of a game you don’t own? Does it throw an error, or does nothing happen?
just nothing happens, game won't say it opened and you can't unlock achievements.
@@Gwizz1027oh, ok. Thanks!
This is not a "problem", this is an expected behaviour. Maybe you don't like it, but it's. This makes easier to test while developing games for Steam. Users faking achievements is not a huge problem for Valve, developers or users in general.
The only real alternative to this is DRM. But it would be expensive both for Valve and developers, harder to implement and annoying AND expensive for users, since they would need better machine to keep the performance with both DRM and game running. Some developers like SEGA are already doing this tho.
Ok
bro just remade SAM
No lie I thought this was gonna be way worse. I legit thought it was going to be a way to play any game. Thank god it's not. I mean faking achievements is bad but not that bad. I mean what do you get besides the achievements?
Well, one thing you can do is on games that support steams p2p system, they can make pirated servers, etc. But in all honesty I just thought the topic was really interesting and it's slightly dramatized for yt
FINALLY I GET THE GMOD ACHIEVMENT HELLO IM GARRY, I LOVE U
I would agree, that's a big thing, i mean, if a developper wants to implement secret acheivements in his game,,,,
yep, the secret ones are just as visible as visible ones on steamdb
@@Gwizz1027Some are protected, one exemple I can think about is appid 1754720 , it has 67 achievements, 7 of which cannot be cheated, with SAM or with other tools, there are other titles but it's pretty rare.
Wow, that's crazy.
Okay, this isn't (i think) connected with the things you said in the video because i didn't watch it yet, but it caught my attention because 2 hours before you released the video i got hacked and someone sold everything from my inventory and changed my language to japaneese.
Activate 2FA my guy
@@Z38_US Is that an antivirus or something?
This is not an issue at all. Meh.
Neat video
Nice
actually no one cares about steam achievements. I have 100% achievements on games I don't even play, and no one cares.
As a developer, I had an issue with this. The problem is I think the youtube algorithm isn't sharing this to the right people haha.
@@Gwizz1027But why exactly do you have a problem with this as a developer? What is the issue in people unlocking achievements without playing the game? I'm genuinly interested because I can't think of many good reasons other then some games unlocking certain content through achievements, altough because this is so well known for years know (as can be seen by SAM aka. Steam Achievement Manager) if a developer does this they usually have a seperate achievement system built into the game that cannot be cheesed the same way.
Because I want people to actually play my game? How is that a hot take?
@@Gwizz1027Yeah no I get that it's just how does unlocking the achievement impede that in any way?
I mean sure there are probably some people that literally just do this to get 100% completion on random games they never play but I suspect most people who buy it do so to actually play it.
It's not a hot take but I mean it's just achievements isn't it?
everyone knows this bruh
FBI
XD
hush up, pirates have been using this for ages to network pirated games. don't ruin it for the rest of us
haha sorry it makes good content! And trust me Steam has not shown any sign of actually caring about this issue.