Gravel is the key word here! As a resident of Sedona and having ridden these trails for years hardly any of them are conducive for Gravel bikes. It's like asking to review on 4" travel mountain bike on a gravel terrain like a Chino Grinder or Dirty Kansa. A 100 miles on gravel on a full suspension bike is not ideal. This is why there are different applications for different bikes.
I wish you tested the gravel bikes in tarmac, too. And evaluated their speed prowess (on tarmac). The thing is, many of Us prefer gravel bikes do strictly road bikes owing to their superior resilience, compatibility with wider tyres, compatibility with racks, dynamo lights and mudguards (unfortunately, not all of them comply).
Its the bike you buy and realise its stuck between two worlds and was an expensive experiment. for the $$ you could get a decent gravel bike AND and decent mountain bike.
Road this bike at the Sedona Festival, what a blast Canyon of fools super ripping. I found in the be very comfortable on all the chunky trails, dopper seat post made the chunky descend much easier. On the road it motored right along. Plus all the guys at the Evil booth where super friendly.
I love the brutal honesty and ability to still see the positives. I only discovered Cycling Tips a few months ago but I have gone through and read a lot of the past reviews and it’s now my go to source.
Nice review, but I wonder if part of the reason for the performance issues comes from riding this bike outside its intended operational theatre. Sure it has a slack head angle, but its still a fully rigid drop bar bike, and that terrain was where full suspension would be best deployed. Could it be that the test just identified the limits of the bike, and by dialling the terrain back a bit, it would shine as a "progressive" gravel bike solution?
Evil makes it very clear that this bike is intended to be ridden much harder and faster than a conventional gravel bike (and I'll point you to this recent IG post from Evil for an idea: instagram.com/p/B9cXR50h3be/), so no, I don't think we at all were riding this bike outside of its designed use. We actually rode this bike on the exact same areas that we rode the other bikes on test, and yet the ride quality issues were still evident. The front-end geometry is purpose-built for higher speeds, but the overly rigid frame just doesn't allow you to do that as confidently as some of the other bikes we rode.
Demo'd this bike in Sedona this weekend and I have to say this review is spot on! Main thing I noticed is too harsh (I aired the 50c tires pretty low too) and the long front center had me not needing the dropper and I have a dropper on my gravel bike.
Whew! Glad to hear we're not crazy. Part of the appeal of the Field Test format for us is having multiple people riding the same bike, so at least in this case, we were pretty confident of our conclusions.
@@jameshuang4205 you guys put to words a lot of what I felt about it but didn't know how to quite express. I wanted to love it but just didn't. I look forward to the Niner MCR review, I demoed that one too ;)
I understand using the same tire for control on all the test bikes but 40mm tires are pretty small. On most of the current gravel bikes based on 700c 45c is the max recommended tire. I think especially since you guys seem to be testing on chunky single track in addition to gravel roads a 42c-44c tire would’ve been a better choice for proper shredding while still being fast on the gravel roads. I’m intrigued tho, bring on the rest.
We ran the same tires across the board for all the bikes at Field Test purely for consistency since tires have such a tremendous effect on a bike's overall ride quality. And while there was some variation in terms of clearances for all the bikes, we determined that 40mm would work for all of them so that's what we went with. On the Evil, in particular, we also tested with the stock 50mm tires since we were trying to answer the question of ride quality on the frame and fork.
Could be a function of where I ride, and with whom. But I use 38c wet / 37c dry tires, most of the people I ride with are around the same or smaller. 40c seemed reasonable given the desire for a control tire that would split the difference on a wide variety of bikes and terrain. I think the artifacts that came out from using this tire with the bike highlight the value of having done that.
i have one of these and use it for local singletrack which is slow and uninspiring on a MTB. to get the best out of it the bars and stem need replacing for shorter and wider, just like we always had to do with MTB's not too long ago. a lot of riders will prefer a mtb for singletrack but that depends on how much they like to be challenged when out riding.
This is an old review now, but I think a disservice was done by using control tires. I suspect that the 50c stock tires were intentional because pressures could be dropped enough to add compliance and confidence. I won't defend the geometry because I actually laughed when the bike was released - to me it seemed there was a meeting at Evil and even though nobody rode drop bar bikes, they figured there was a market to disrupt. Slack head angles on mountain bikes are for smashing rough trails, steep trails and even to compensate for the steepening of the head angle as the fork compresses... not exactly applicable scenarios no matter how hardcore the rider... fun to see the limits pushed.
So, Evil has a Black Friday special where one can now get this in GRX build for $3800!! Tempting!! But, here I am...57 in N. Mesa AZ where I ride single track in desert rocks/cactus anytime it is less than 85F, and then I go for canal dirt and fire roads on the Rez when it is hotter on long 25-40mi burns - mostly flat. I'll use my new Niner Air 9 HT for the ST, and still want a Gravel for those hot day long dirt road burns. I am kinda put off on this review as It seems to stiff to make my workouts decent...I am Open to any suggestions for a Carbon gravel for those canal rides of around $3k-$4.5K....Pleeeezze!!!!???
I haven't ridden either of those Salsas myself, but just by looking at the geometry charts, those bikes will handle *very* differently from this Evil. The front ends are much steeper, and the reach dimensions are much shorter.
I use all the time my dropper seat on my gravel bike to have better control on uneven terrain or bumpy roads or most of the time to give a rest to my shoulders and legs
Hmmm.... cool looking bike, and interesting geo and spec on paper, but seems to miss the mark. Front center and trail too long, bottom bracket is too low. Dial this back a bit and it'll probably be a winner. Also, sounds like the frame rigidity is much too high, with not enough compliance to fight all of the chatter. Seems like a revisit to the carbon layup and modulus mix as well as shaping might be in order. Just some considerations and my 2 cents... still it's sick looking ride!
I’ve recently watched CyclingAbouts video discussion video on frame stiffness that’s made me think of this review and rewatch it. I’m wondering if the chatter and stiffness is coming from a lack of flex in the dropper seatpost (in comparison to and alloy or carbon post) and the control tyres rather than the frame itself. Still a very interesting bike for me
What do you think makes this bike so stiff? With such long wheelbase and slacker angles, such geometry should lend itself to comfier feel. The carbon frame must be super stiff to outdo the geometry.
Good video. This test may, or maybe not answer the question - How do you define a 'Gravel' bike? To me, this seems to have a narrow 'performance window' and is suited to gravel/light trails rather than gravel/road purely down to its geometry. Due to this lack of versatility, I wouldn't be putting it on a short list.
@@jameshuang4205 The biggest outlier I noticed riding one in 2015 was that it was like riding a unicycle on anything over a 5% incline (and I owned a Yelli Screamy!!!). The Hagar fits with Evils MO (make of that what you will) and serves as a neat end stop to the pendulum swing that progress always goes through.It's taken 5 model years to get mtb's to the same point .Should have started with the Grim Donut first and saved buyers having an 'obsolete' bike every 10 months.......(or was that the point!?! ).
@@thegibbonisreal Yeah, the slack seat tube angle that Evil seems hell-bent on sticking to on its MTB frames has been the biggest roadblock to me wanting to try one.
For a gravel bike, it's amazing, even if somewhat expensive. But the problem is - for less money you can buy a XC HT with rigid fork. This is basically expensive XC rigid. And regular XC rigid would ride better. P.S. The only reason I am watching this is 'cause I'm XC rider with rigid bike.
Great review James, Dave 👍. Interesting bike. May be unrelated to the performance, but it’s got to be said - it sure is ugly. Not sure if is an attribute you are including in your assessment of each bike, but I’d be interested to hear about the relative efficiency/speed of each bike on tarmac/hardpack/smooth gravel as well as all the details on how they handle the rougher stuff.
Doing something like that would require more controlled tests using strictly defined sections of road/trail, as well as power meters and a lot of time. Unfortunately, that just wasn't in the cards for this group test. Either way, my suspicion is that you wouldn't see a ton of difference (given the control tires and pressures) until things got really bumpy.
Kidding ourselves? I thought we made our thoughts on this topic pretty explicit. "If it looks like a mountain bike hardtail with drop bars, that's more or less what it is."
Sedona was a poor choice to test a gravel bike. Come up here to New England and race a gravel event in VT and you will want every feature that bike offers.
I'm with you, but dial it back a bit for the sake of civility. Years ago I put 700c x 44 hybrid bike tires on an old 80's sport bike for long multi-surface rides in West Virginia. Worked a treat. But I'm not going anywhere near as fast or long as the current gravel scene. And just accept that cycling since the 90's Armstrong boom has a right fair number of folks who are in it to spend more than their mates.
@@slowerandolder yeah, after watching the slight geometry tweaks seem to make sense. I mean I'm all with it, I have an 06 XC bike that was like over $5k retail back then, even if I'm not using it to full potential yet
@Robert Kuntz like you I ride rigid. Have an old Fat Chance, knew those guys in the 80's. And I remember when John Tomac, fresh off a Euro road season with Motorola, rode drops at the US XC Championship and regretted it. Horses for courses & what works for me is what's right for me to use and nothing more.
![ไข้ขึ้นเลย! เมื่อแฝดโดนจัดเต็มวัคซีนครบ2เดือน🤒 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.54 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2VHItnyyvY/mqdefault.jpg)
Finally... some unbiased reviews, which is refreshing. Great job gents!!! Keep them coming!
Gravel is the key word here! As a resident of Sedona and having ridden these trails for years hardly any of them are conducive for Gravel bikes. It's like asking to review on 4" travel mountain bike on a gravel terrain like a Chino Grinder or Dirty Kansa. A 100 miles on gravel on a full suspension bike is not ideal. This is why there are different applications for different bikes.
I wish you tested the gravel bikes in tarmac, too. And evaluated their speed prowess (on tarmac). The thing is, many of Us prefer gravel bikes do strictly road bikes owing to their superior resilience, compatibility with wider tyres, compatibility with racks, dynamo lights and mudguards (unfortunately, not all of them comply).
best named gravel bike of 2020, hands-down
Its the bike you buy and realise its stuck between two worlds and was an expensive experiment. for the $$ you could get a decent gravel bike AND and decent mountain bike.
Road this bike at the Sedona Festival, what a blast Canyon of fools super ripping. I found in the be very comfortable on all the chunky trails, dopper seat post made the chunky descend much easier. On the road it motored right along. Plus all the guys at the Evil booth where super friendly.
The review is spot on. Thanks for such an honest review. Very rare these days. Love the format!
I love the brutal honesty and ability to still see the positives. I only discovered Cycling Tips a few months ago but I have gone through and read a lot of the past reviews and it’s now my go to source.
Better late than never :)
These reviews, save lives. Thank you
Try the Lauf True Grit. It’s long, not crazy slack, comfortable and very capable in the rough.
Thanks for this guys. I didn't like your Stigmata review, but it though this was a much clearer picture of what this bike is.
Amazing looking bike. Probably the only bike you'd want to run a backward angle set on. Great content guys
Nice review, but I wonder if part of the reason for the performance issues comes from riding this bike outside its intended operational theatre. Sure it has a slack head angle, but its still a fully rigid drop bar bike, and that terrain was where full suspension would be best deployed. Could it be that the test just identified the limits of the bike, and by dialling the terrain back a bit, it would shine as a "progressive" gravel bike solution?
Evil makes it very clear that this bike is intended to be ridden much harder and faster than a conventional gravel bike (and I'll point you to this recent IG post from Evil for an idea: instagram.com/p/B9cXR50h3be/), so no, I don't think we at all were riding this bike outside of its designed use. We actually rode this bike on the exact same areas that we rode the other bikes on test, and yet the ride quality issues were still evident. The front-end geometry is purpose-built for higher speeds, but the overly rigid frame just doesn't allow you to do that as confidently as some of the other bikes we rode.
Demo'd this bike in Sedona this weekend and I have to say this review is spot on! Main thing I noticed is too harsh (I aired the 50c tires pretty low too) and the long front center had me not needing the dropper and I have a dropper on my gravel bike.
Whew! Glad to hear we're not crazy. Part of the appeal of the Field Test format for us is having multiple people riding the same bike, so at least in this case, we were pretty confident of our conclusions.
@@jameshuang4205 you guys put to words a lot of what I felt about it but didn't know how to quite express. I wanted to love it but just didn't.
I look forward to the Niner MCR review, I demoed that one too ;)
I understand using the same tire for control on all the test bikes but 40mm tires are pretty small. On most of the current gravel bikes based on 700c 45c is the max recommended tire. I think especially since you guys seem to be testing on chunky single track in addition to gravel roads a 42c-44c tire would’ve been a better choice for proper shredding while still being fast on the gravel roads. I’m intrigued tho, bring on the rest.
We ran the same tires across the board for all the bikes at Field Test purely for consistency since tires have such a tremendous effect on a bike's overall ride quality. And while there was some variation in terms of clearances for all the bikes, we determined that 40mm would work for all of them so that's what we went with. On the Evil, in particular, we also tested with the stock 50mm tires since we were trying to answer the question of ride quality on the frame and fork.
Could be a function of where I ride, and with whom. But I use 38c wet / 37c dry tires, most of the people I ride with are around the same or smaller. 40c seemed reasonable given the desire for a control tire that would split the difference on a wide variety of bikes and terrain. I think the artifacts that came out from using this tire with the bike highlight the value of having done that.
i have one of these and use it for local singletrack which is slow and uninspiring on a MTB. to get the best out of it the bars and stem need replacing for shorter and wider, just like we always had to do with MTB's not too long ago. a lot of riders will prefer a mtb for singletrack but that depends on how much they like to be challenged when out riding.
This is an old review now, but I think a disservice was done by using control tires. I suspect that the 50c stock tires were intentional because pressures could be dropped enough to add compliance and confidence. I won't defend the geometry because I actually laughed when the bike was released - to me it seemed there was a meeting at Evil and even though nobody rode drop bar bikes, they figured there was a market to disrupt. Slack head angles on mountain bikes are for smashing rough trails, steep trails and even to compensate for the steepening of the head angle as the fork compresses... not exactly applicable scenarios no matter how hardcore the rider... fun to see the limits pushed.
So, Evil has a Black Friday special where one can now get this in GRX build for $3800!! Tempting!! But, here I am...57 in N. Mesa AZ where I ride single track in desert rocks/cactus anytime it is less than 85F, and then I go for canal dirt and fire roads on the Rez when it is hotter on long 25-40mi burns - mostly flat. I'll use my new Niner Air 9 HT for the ST, and still want a Gravel for those hot day long dirt road burns. I am kinda put off on this review as It seems to stiff to make my workouts decent...I am Open to any suggestions for a Carbon gravel for those canal rides of around $3k-$4.5K....Pleeeezze!!!!???
Do you think you can compare this bike to the Salsa Fargo or Cutthroat, please? These two have been referred to as drop bar mtb.
I haven't ridden either of those Salsas myself, but just by looking at the geometry charts, those bikes will handle *very* differently from this Evil. The front ends are much steeper, and the reach dimensions are much shorter.
I use all the time my dropper seat on my gravel bike to have better control on uneven terrain or bumpy roads or most of the time to give a rest to my shoulders and legs
I've been curious about this bike. Finally an honest review. Thank you.
Hmmm.... cool looking bike, and interesting geo and spec on paper, but seems to miss the mark. Front center and trail too long, bottom bracket is too low. Dial this back a bit and it'll probably be a winner. Also, sounds like the frame rigidity is much too high, with not enough compliance to fight all of the chatter. Seems like a revisit to the carbon layup and modulus mix as well as shaping might be in order. Just some considerations and my 2 cents... still it's sick looking ride!
I’ve recently watched CyclingAbouts video discussion video on frame stiffness that’s made me think of this review and rewatch it. I’m wondering if the chatter and stiffness is coming from a lack of flex in the dropper seatpost (in comparison to and alloy or carbon post) and the control tyres rather than the frame itself. Still a very interesting bike for me
Frame Kit alone is 3K €. But I am only 170cm small, so not sure which Framesize to get. Anyway, nice video.
I'm only a few centimeters taller than you, and was very comfortable on the small. The stack figures up front are very tall.
Hands down Sedona has the chunkiest trail in AZ. Only Flagstaff comes close.
I wonder what it would ride like with an offset headset to reduce the head tube angle
This bike and the Lauf true grit are the only choices for a gravel bike in 2020.
What do you think makes this bike so stiff? With such long wheelbase and slacker angles, such geometry should lend itself to comfier feel. The carbon frame must be super stiff to outdo the geometry.
Surprisingly good review! It’s a rigid MTB with drip bars and even mountain bikers would not enjoy riding that in my opinion.
Good video. This test may, or maybe not answer the question - How do you define a 'Gravel' bike?
To me, this seems to have a narrow 'performance window' and is suited to gravel/light trails rather than gravel/road purely down to its geometry. Due to this lack of versatility, I wouldn't be putting it on a short list.
Throw a shortie stem and some proper MTB handlebars on it and it will be cool as fuck.
Love the review. Summary: Progressive for the sake of being progressive while not caring if it actually works.
Sounds like the democratic party.
@@SteveSUX2BU trump lost lol
The irony is that it is far more radical than Evils mtbs (which tbh are pretty middle of the road).
They maybe are now, sure, but the original Following was still very much an outlier when it was first introduced.
@@jameshuang4205 The biggest outlier I noticed riding one in 2015 was that it was like riding a unicycle on anything over a 5% incline (and I owned a Yelli Screamy!!!).
The Hagar fits with Evils MO (make of that what you will) and serves as a neat end stop to the pendulum swing that progress always goes through.It's taken 5 model years to get mtb's to the same point .Should have started with the Grim Donut first and saved buyers having an 'obsolete' bike every 10 months.......(or was that the point!?! ).
@@thegibbonisreal Yeah, the slack seat tube angle that Evil seems hell-bent on sticking to on its MTB frames has been the biggest roadblock to me wanting to try one.
@@jameshuang4205 Imagine what it's like for us guys who don't need help getting stuff off the top shelf !! ;o)
@@thegibbonisreal Ha! I can only imagine. Off-topic, I like how Norco adjusts its chainstay lengths with frame size to address this sort of thing.
For a gravel bike, it's amazing, even if somewhat expensive. But the problem is - for less money you can buy a XC HT with rigid fork. This is basically expensive XC rigid. And regular XC rigid would ride better. P.S. The only reason I am watching this is 'cause I'm XC rider with rigid bike.
"Exact same pressures"...what pressure is that?
This is from memory, but I believe we all ran 38psi up front and 40psi out back.
Great review James, Dave 👍. Interesting bike. May be unrelated to the performance, but it’s got to be said - it sure is ugly. Not sure if is an attribute you are including in your assessment of each bike, but I’d be interested to hear about the relative efficiency/speed of each bike on tarmac/hardpack/smooth gravel as well as all the details on how they handle the rougher stuff.
Doing something like that would require more controlled tests using strictly defined sections of road/trail, as well as power meters and a lot of time. Unfortunately, that just wasn't in the cards for this group test. Either way, my suspicion is that you wouldn't see a ton of difference (given the control tires and pressures) until things got really bumpy.
That’s a rigid fork MTB with drop bars - don’t kid yourselves?
Kidding ourselves? I thought we made our thoughts on this topic pretty explicit. "If it looks like a mountain bike hardtail with drop bars, that's more or less what it is."
When looking at the geometry specs on evil’s website, the ride of the Chamois Hagar is predictable.
7:31 nice one :D
Imagine this bike with 130mm PIKE, X01 Eagle, 29x2.3 Mountain King and flat MTB handlebar. I think that is what this frame was supposed to be..
Sedona was a poor choice to test a gravel bike. Come up here to New England and race a gravel event in VT and you will want every feature that bike offers.
Unless your gravel is pavement-smooth, I have a hard time envisioning any situation where I'd want a gravel frame that rides this harshly.
I feel like I have buy this bike now because I was the 666th like
7'.39"😁
That looks like 42c tires and not anywhere near 50c
to me its just a mtb with dropper handles
Go ahead and ride a rowdy trail, but you're going to slash your tyres irrespective of their size.
Depends more on the sharpness of the rocks, no?
$4800 is far too expensive.
This is slacker than m'y old mtn bike
Jesus that thing is slack.
OU812
at this point just ride a mountain bike!
Rigid gravel bike , rides rigid. Shocking stuff here.
Looks like a very cool bike but not $5000 worth of cool.
What is the point of a gravel bike? It seems like manufacturers took a road bike, put dirt tires on it and collecting the checks.
I'm with you, but dial it back a bit for the sake of civility. Years ago I put 700c x 44 hybrid bike tires on an old 80's sport bike for long multi-surface rides in West Virginia. Worked a treat. But I'm not going anywhere near as fast or long as the current gravel scene. And just accept that cycling since the 90's Armstrong boom has a right fair number of folks who are in it to spend more than their mates.
@@slowerandolder yeah, after watching the slight geometry tweaks seem to make sense. I mean I'm all with it, I have an 06 XC bike that was like over $5k retail back then, even if I'm not using it to full potential yet
@Robert Kuntz like you I ride rigid. Have an old Fat Chance, knew those guys in the 80's. And I remember when John Tomac, fresh off a Euro road season with Motorola, rode drops at the US XC Championship and regretted it. Horses for courses & what works for me is what's right for me to use and nothing more.
That is a drop bar mountain bike! But man doesn’t it look sexy, might do the same to my GT 😂