Name-brand vs off-brand
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- We tested 3 types of soft shackles made with 3 different qualities of Dyneema - 2 samples each.
The 3 qualities were generic HMPE, low quality name brand and the best stuff on the market.
Amazon "Synthetic winch line" - amzn.to/3B4UXrj
DATA AND MORE DETAILS ON THE BLOG www.hownot2.co...
Ted Simpson / ragnarok_overland
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Intro
00:27 Ted Simpson
3:01 About Dyneema (HMPE)
5:10 How and what we are testing
6:33 Base line tests - Eye to Eye
07:24 Amsteel Blue SK75 Tests
09:19 Amsteel Blue SK75 Results
10:01 Amazon Chineema Tests
11:27 Amazon Chineema Results
12:15 SK99 Max Tests
14:58 Sk99 Max Results
15:43 All Results
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Find out if tapering splices is important in our last dyneema video th-cam.com/video/lhIPeJNWtxE/w-d-xo.html and don't forget the blog has more information than I can fit in a 16min video www.hownot2.com/post/soft-shackle-comparison
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
For those interested, the "disks" on the stopper shackles are made from 6061-T6 aluminum, and were then coated with Cerakote , which is a ceramic based bake on paint that is very slippery to try and reduce any friction that might be generated by the disk itself.
Are they purpose made for this, or something else repurposed?
@@jarodlojeck5150 in this particular case, i made these myself, but it's a design I've seen used in the sailing world. My only real issue with this type of design is that we have introduced a metal object into the system, and at least in off road recovery, the ultimate goal is to remove anything from the system that becomes a flying projectile in the event of a failure, so these are not the ideal solution.
That being said, if enough R&D were done to ensure that the dyneema failed first, and a sort of tether were added to the system, i can see them as an option in off road. As for climbing, caving, and mountaineering stuff, that's a question for Ryan about their feasibility.
@@DarkSoulBaja my applications are much lower stakes. I just like the idea.
@@DarkSoulBaja I'd argue that you're better off just using the buttonhead. Less parts, less concern about fatigue (if you use aluminum for the stopper), and I'd assume cheaper. This shows performance is similar if not superior.
@@arimunic i completely agree. I mentioned elsewhere, at least in our off road applications, the goal is to eliminate as much metal from the system as possible. The addition of the aluminum stopper was just to show another option, and stuff i have seen in use in other hobbies.
The numbers were absolutely organised enough 🙏
Super organised enough! :P
@@jmjmkuba Yes, organized super good enough. And all the numbers were just lovely and high.
Enjoyed creating the test pieces and learning a lot more in the process working with you on this video. Hopefully we can do another Dyneema rope project , i have ideas 😁
Thanks for making all of those!
You could definitely bring in some clicks by testing the harborfreight chyneema! Both ATV&Truck/SUV sizes... also after sitting outside uncovered several months. It would be neat to break test their winch cables as well, although that might require a field trip to a facility with dedicated cable testing equipment 🙁 I don't want to see the slacksnap or Ryan be damaged beyond repair from breaking steel cable! 😬
Thank you for your support and contribution
Perfect about data, well organised and understandable
The well laid out tables were super good enough for dealing with so many numbers even on a phone screen.
Worked as a yacht rigger for many years and its funny, the load bearing capacity of dyneema whether chinese or brand name is almost never the cause of failure. What it comes down to is the chafe and uv resistance of the covers allowing for individual fiber breakage. The only concerns when it comes to dyneema tend to be exposure of the core and breakage of fibers due to wear rather than the overall load handling capacity of the fibers because its extremely rare for a dyneema line designed for a certain application to even approach its failure point without degredation of the cover whether from uv or chafe, its just so strong. Creep is a relative nonissue due to the stretch characteristics so you can avoid point loading in the individual strands given your sheave diameter is correct for the size line you are using. Dyneema is a wonderful line that if used properly can be applied to most loading conditions in all environments.
Living near DSM where dynema is made. Gheh feels a bit special to see this stuff all over the world 😄
Love the raw data along with the commentary.
Keep doing exactly what you're doing.
Awesome job.
I think the way you presented all the numbers made it easy to keep track of. Super good enough
This was super interesting! I make soft shackles all the time professionally (I'm a marine rigger). Curiously I honestly can't remember seeing any of these styles in the field where the two strands are not spliced through each other, and rather two eye splices. Especially not one with an aluminum plate! Great to learn about.
In any case, if you have any interest in a follow up vid testing a completely different design that we use in the sailing world, I would be happy to send samples and I can reach out via email. I would also be very curious to see how our style shackles hold up, and I've never seen one break, but we aren't even coming close to swl of just just the raw amsteel in our sailboat applications.
Anyways, another great vid! Drop me a reply if you'd like me to send an email!
Totally. Hit me up at ryan@slackline.com
@@HowNOT2 Will do!
The style you see here where the rope only passes straight through itself to form the noose is great for large static loads, but in sailing I think it would run the risk of opening when the ropes are flapping in the breeze. Hence why you then have the style where the rope goes along the interior of itself and you milk it shut.
Very well organized, excellent information. My biggest takeaway from this video is that home made soft shackles, if done properly, are stronger than the rope from which they are made, which gives me peace of mind that the shackle is not the weak link in a rigging system.
Many numbers is super good enough :) Apart from your stellar personality and hot bod, we're here to see the results of all the amazing tests we would otherwise never get to see.
these charts are faaaantastic. i remember watching a few of your videos a few years back that were big colourful messes and I was very confused. these are super easy to read and grasp the information that they're trying to portray
Thanks to you I've started using my own form of soft shackles. Not in a life-supporting scenario, but to attach the stirrup to my paraglider. It only needs to be strong enough to let me push back into the seat of my harness so I just tied loops out of Harbor Freight Paracord using double-fisherman's bends. Again, its just for leverage, and if it fails (or I forget to setup my stirrup) I can still shimmy back into the seat so...
Super Good Enough.
Thanks!
Super good enough display of the numbers. Everything was straight forward and easy to understand.
The amount of data is good for one Video. It was easy to follow and understand!
Nice thorough test. For me, as long as the soft shackle is stronger than equivalent eye-to-eye I'm happy because that will reliably be the weak link.
A small correction for the samson amsteel blue. Amsteel blue is made with sk78 not sk75. I know because i work for Samson. Sk75 was phased out of amsteel blue a few years ago before we even made the soft shackles. And specifically for amsteel-blue we only use sk78. It may seem like a minor difference but there is a difference between sk75 and sk78. Sk75 is slightly weaker and lower quality then sk78. Felt i needed to point this out.
Hi Wetopie. This is John from ExtremeGear. Thanks for sharing that information. Can you post a link to a page on the Samson website or a datasheet showing that shows amsteel Blue is made from sk78? I have searched the website a few times and can't find anything that specifies the type of dyneema.
found them. Just took a little digging. I was off a few years
samsonrope.com/docs/default-source/technical-bulletins/mooring-line-performance-in-warm-climate-and-dynamic-conditions.pdf?sfvrsn=7805a18f_4
samsonrope.com/docs/default-source/case-studies/cs_k_line_trinity_glory.pdf?sfvrsn=22af2eb0_4
samsonrope.com/docs/default-source/case-studies/cs_bw_fleet_management.pdf?sfvrsn=1f393bf8_4
The max sk99 6mm with a button knot, this video, and the data presented in this video were all… super good enough!
I definitely appreciate the numbers, I like the context as you go.
SK's lower than double performance seems like it's related to the weave.
The large weave is making larger bend differences, more tension on individual fibers.
Would be interesting to have the MSRPs in the data table.
The SK seems super good enough if it holds up over time; might be a good value even if it doesn't last forever.
The cheaper stuff has it's place, but its definitely nice to know you get what you pay for. Depends what you need it for.
I am a fan of numbers and spreadsheets and formulas, so I love all the numbers. Especially in the context of break tests, which is so inherently about numbers.
"chineema" I have a new word in my vocabulary. Thanks for that. (& the really useful tests)
Great to see all the numbers!
Mass numbers are super good enough and the organisation style was also super good enough.
liked this video a lot, the numbers are very clear and show the diferences in qualities very good. I love this dyneema videos
Great amount of data. Easy to understand!
I liked the charts shown side by side made for easy comparison keep up the good work
Liked the way the data was presented well done
The organization was great! Crazy to see the unbreakable sample
I had no idea how good soft shackles were before watching your videos. I personally like the number data.
3:58 "This one especially (knot)" ... I see you
The air quotes are strong with this one.
loved it understood it all. great info well delivered keep it up!!!!
I admit to buying the cheap stuff for soft shackles, aiders, other general work duties.
Data is readable and clear
Thanks, awesome information 👍🏼
Hey Ryan another great video, The takeaway for me is that soft shackles do not introduce a weak point into the rigging even if you use chineema. I do have a question though and that is how polished are your shackles on the rig, shackles for uhmwpe ropes should be highly polished in order to minimize friction and I wonder if that friction is accountable for at least some of the failures.
I don’t think I saw any of the failures occurring on the shackle in this test. I’d be more worried about that for longer term use and abrasion.
Great content as always, thanks!
I’d love to see the results in a graphical format too, it would make it easier to compare I think.
Numbers were well organized and easy to understand.
2 refuse to be broken samples lol.
They are TO Good Enough 🤣
Thanks!
Ok great the testing regime you are committing to, to find the ultimate shackle but I would like to offer some input on this.
The first information in regards to the shackle retaining twice the strength from tying a knot to prevent the noose coming off.
Isn’t it fact that the knot regardless how well it’s tied is just that a knot.
When your shackle is being loaded the noose will be forced down onto the back of the knot.. your break loading point..
during the application if you are under estimated in capacity of your shackle the load will continue apply on this knot until it either gives or friction is that great it will melt and fuse the throat of the shackle always failing in the knot.
Essentially the knot is still your problem in a serious application.
all good , im seeing if i want to make/use these shackles close to max spec that ... i use the crown knot plus pull the knot tight mechanically to reduce any movement/ heat production in knot when is in use - loaded .. will give more reliable higher breaking shackle ... BTW why cant you go 3:1 and test to 150Kn ? etc. etc ps [hope everyone had good eye protection for the aluminium shrapnel from the discs] ; ]
Everything beautiful 😍
i like the numbers on the spreadsheet, but i wish it would stay on the screen a little longer, otherwise great video and i appreciate all the work that goes into all of your videos!
It's just a sample so you know you can look at it on the blog. Videos honestly are really awful for displaying that much information so that's why it's nice to have the written content to pair with it.
Well organized
Numbers in the video were great!
If they splice at the noose, so there's double the strands at the weak point...would this help?
This was wonderful
Try testing under water, it might keep it cooler so stronger, just a hunch
Good amount of numbers :)
The disk was interesting. Would like to see how long it takes to build. The logical extrapolation is that you could use anything as a stopper. The first thing that popped in my head was an old style lanyard ring although it would have to be a long soft shackle to get the loop over it. Or a d ring shackle, you could slide the rope through and then attach the shackle. Adding metal bits to a soft shackle is undesirable in most applications, but like the disk and sailing somebody might find a use for it.
As a sailor I would really be interested in the same test but with the dyneema brands being in the tropic sun for a year or two. And/or with normal use after some time. How do they stand up to degrading?
Can you link to the circle things and/or the way to make a soft shackle with them?
I liked those numbers!
I watch your videos and they are a great help. Where do you get your Dyneema rope? Awesome Break down. 🤛👍👏👏👏👏
Thanks. If www.extremegear.org/ has the diameters I need, I get it there.
Organised enough!
One question would interest me here: What is the maximum tractive force for testing the system?
Thank you
i was able to follow and appreciated it. but i am also a scientist.
numbers are fine
Love the numbers! Strange how the Amazon stuff is both stronger and weaker than the name brand. I purchased some softies off Amazon likely made from the cheap stuff so I'm now curious what it breaks at.
Just received f Amazon 1/4' AMG dyneema f SGT Knots. What do I have? P.s. Thanks, interesting vid
I came for the numbers, but stayed for the "chineema"!
It is very slippery, it slides out of cam cleats pretty easily. It has next to no stretch once tensioned, and is spectacularly strong though.
Can you test the Behelfsseilklemme from Petzl on the rope and after them a rope test.
My favorite rope is Amsteel Lite. Delicious
The 12 oz stuff is super good enough.
How about the price comparison???
Anyway... The chinese seller tend to marking up the size or reducing the material for a specific size. I've tried comparing several different seller. The good way to compare them is to weight it on a specific length.
How about some graphs to show the data at the end?
You can buy really thick Amazon shackles that are way stronger than my winch line, so there is no point in buying them from a 4x4 brand for me.
I think colour coding in the tables would go a long way. Eg. Green for the strongest of the three, red for below MBS/prediction
dont know much about climbing but would it be possible to pad the dyneema noose in order to protect it from being the weakest point, or is it even worth doing/trying given that the loads are already way above what is to be expected?
I'm very curious how this material would work in climbing devices? Wonder who could possibly test this 🤔 😁
Is the data from this and past videos in a public spreadsheet anywhere? I would love to do some analysis!
What if you take 3 minute or 5 minute “breaks” every 10KN so the rope has time to cool? Would that give you a higher break strength rather than pulling right to 40-60KN?
I enjoy the numbers. I want all of them =) For me the format could be even more concise: more pulling and data - less talking.
How much is 1 kn on a static load? I’m an arborist and really like the break test numbers you provide. They help me better understand the loads and limits of my rigging and climbing gear.
1kn is a moderately fat guy. 20kn is a car. 80kn is a T-rex, or school bus.
@@agsystems8220 how much is one shit ton?
you can say that 1 Kn is about 1Kg (2 pounds~) so 1Kn=100n=100Kg=200pounds (aprox)
My gut instinct is getting a larger hydraulic but clearly if you need something to hold more than 40kN, thats something you need to engineer on your own
I have a larger hydraulic for bolt busters but it pulls slower since the pump is the same. It would suck to use that for stretchy samples.
What was the first sample you refused to break?
I love all the numbers, but then I'm one of those damn engineers. So as my wife will attest I'm not normal.
Utrzymał by startujący myśliwiec, niesamowita wytrzymałość 90 kN 🤯
It would hold a fighter taking off, an incredible strength of 90 kN
So button soft shackles seem far superior.
What ever went on with the drop tower? Idk u did start new channels maybe im lost now
Next week has a drop tower video. Last week was a drop tower video. It's 5x harder to film an episode on so if I batch film for 5 days, I'm going to get 3 drop towers and 12 slack snaps videos making it look like I'm not using it, but I assure you I am. Check out last weeks video th-cam.com/video/AQP5nSEA2H4/w-d-xo.html
@@HowNOT2 good to know thanks for the reply. Was cool to see the drop tests and stoked to see you reply to my stoner question appreciate it
@@lozzol1887 A few people have legitimately wondered about the drop tower. I will address how it works and why it's hard to generate the same level of content with that system but it is rad and is going to give us some really cool data (and slow mo!)
hot damn!
This soft shackle work load is Fun to watch Go to 6 min
th-cam.com/video/6uRG44eQI2U/w-d-xo.html
He has a LOT of jerk and pulls with a Lot of heavy recoverys.
Not nearly enough numbers. I don't see any elapsed times, temperatures, humidity levels, or elevation figures. The original length and mass of the samples, along with weight retention, should also be given.
Bla bla bla
All those numbers mean shit to us normal ppl. I can't be bother sitting down with calculator because of your ...
Deep down we're all Nerds, the numbers can sometimes be the best part. You guys got the data graphed out super good enough. love to see it
Fun Fact 0.827369kN = My Fattass