I think you should've gone into events too (though that would probably make this video way too long) calm pretty consistently gives you free stab, if you're not already at max fertiles twin birth event gives a choice of two insane heirs most of the time, meaning you can disinherit more aggressively and hope for rngesus to bless your country also not getting cometed as scholar is awesome and some events for the "bad" ruler personalities can offset their negative depending on playstyle
I think that's fair, I had to make a decision weather to cover it or not and well I had to make one, I think it would have made the video 3 hours long if I went into it though. Either way, your point is fair, but I hope you can appreciate the video in its shortened form as well.
That would make infertile S tier, because it increases the chance of the "talented and ambitious daughter" event. (By making it likely that he has no heirs at age 40.)
@@sld1776 I was mostly referring to events unique to leader traits or outcomes that are only possible with them. Even if you account for a higher chance to get this one decent event, you also have higher chances of bad successions due to underage or no heirs, plus having a female ruler can be detrimental sometimes so the event isn't even S tier material
It can be nice marginally, especially for squeezing the last bit of tolerance for getting religious unity up, but you really should not be relying on it.
@@LemonCake101 I believe what the other commenter meant is that it reduces or eliminates the religious intolerance penalties (you get -10% goods produced and tax per point of intolerance). I still wouldn't rank the trait higher, because most of the time you either stack missionary strength to convert everything, or you have positive tolerance. Hence only a small number of provinces will be affected. Also, trade companies are excluded from the penalty.
Fair enough, it is quite opinion based, and if you are going for Separatism reduction Conqueror certainly can see a higher spot. As for Intricate Webweaver: I don't use spies enough for that, and when I do its for siege ability against a single tag, and that's mainly just keeping it at 100.
Spy network/claim fabrication is better than you give it credit. It affects: siege ability, unjustified demands, unlawful territory, AE impact, CCR, and tech cost. It should definitely be C tier for just saving you the admin and diplo mana from CCR and unjustified demands alone. It's a really useful modifier to stack with the advisor and espionage ideas, especially in the HRE
I mean yes, you are correct. It does, I mean the AE reduction only targets the country you have the spy network on, but the Siege ability is what I find the most useful there. My issue and the reason I personally dislike it is 90% of the time any spare diplomats I have are in desperation trying to improve relations with any potential coalition members so I tend to not really have spare diplomats (in my playstyle) to build spy networks. If you are more spy network heavy, improve relations drops a touch and I guess the spy trait improves.
I may put up a poll to see if enough people would be interested in Anbennar content, otherwise there are plenty of other people doing runs of it on TH-cam I imagine :)
43:45 the reason I love YoS reduction is it near impossible to ever get a 2nd rebellion of the same type no matter what you do outside of like 250 overextension.
for some reason most of the time in my games Florence doesn't have a leader with patron of the arts (also it's like this for most nations for me, Milan never seems to start with a leader with consistent traits but is agreed to be quite a bad leader in regards to stats), i don't know if I'm just missing a dlc that fixes this or if that was a patch or 2 ago
@@LemonCake101 but as Milan for example I've had starting rulers who negatively impacted the economy (which is both annoying and a pain in the early game) who provided 2 national unrest (not reduction) and the only redeeming trait was something obscure and mostly useless (for example being secretive or making my buildings less expensive), it's nice when the starting ruler of Florence has good traits but then you remember he's old and will die soon anyway which makes you half to hope the next ruler either is good or has negatives that mean basically nothing (also i just thought of a few things about eu4 traits that are funny. a theocracy can never have a righteous ruler which means they can never have an objectively good person be ruler no matter what they do, also you can have an incorruptible embezzler)
Does taking into account unique event options change the position of some traits? For instance a Scholar can get 75 mana instead of 50 in monarch power events, Bold fighter can take +10% siege ability from "army divided" event for 15 years instead of 10, or Babbling Buffoon during "scandal at the court" can pick -5 prestige instead of stab hit or corruption
I think it can move them around a bit, but the issue with it the events themselves are quite infrequent, and I don't know if that would be enough to justify a move, or how much, hence I avoided it altogether.
Fertile is underrated. Helps alot when you get a chain of bad heirs and have to reroll multiple times. Sure, thats situational but still not bottom. Getting a good ruler helps your country big time and fertile helps with getting him. The game can troll with the heir rng after all.
That is true enough, in some cases it’s nice to have to get an heir in a pinch, but for me that situation happens to be pretty rare when we consider the actual amount of times that happens in a game. But I see the argument that it is nice to have as some sort of insurance
Well I'm not sure, but I think legendary pirate is not a mission reward personality. You have a chance of getting it as any pirate republic. There's also another trait wich is protector of little folk. I thought you can only get it as peasent republic Aragon through an event, but you can get it as any peasent republic. I noticed that in my Ditmarchen to Russia camping.
Interesting, I know the Peasant Republic Aragon has a chance to give that out, I wasn't aware it was for every Peasant Republic. As for Legendary Pirate, yes I was wrong I thought it was a Gotland exclusive but I didn't realize it was any Pirate.
You forgot to mention that when AI can press claim throne button on you, they can turn hostile in latest patches. Making fertile slightly more useful to keep alliances. And it also allows you to roll for better heir faster. Still a D tier imo. Maneuver pips allows to avoid straights and rivers penalties if your general have more that enemy general. It is situational, and you avoid them already with microing but it helps you with ai not getting the penalty it. Other than that, nice tierlist that I fully agree with. Entries are weighed amazingly against each other and follow a bell curve as they should.
I guess avoiding hostile AI is a fair point, but no enough to get it out of D. As for maneuver avoiding straight penalties, I do mention that in fairness,and that’s why it’s not in D tbf
@@LemonCake101 Bit of correction, not hostile, domineering. Not like it changes much. And something esle to consider: largest by dev religious group in the game renders fertile trait basically irrelevant. Also I must've missed the maneuver pip evaluation there, I swear I didn't hear anything about pips themselves.
@@madddd1 I do believe I mentioned off hand how it can help when crossing rivers, but in fairness I may have just planned to say that and didn't end up doing so. Either way, the point still stands, and well observed non the less.
A long teir list (that could be broken up) is national ideas like 10% production efficiency, naval force limit, can (not) recruit female generals. Do i just want to see naval force limklit and croatian ideas ranked... whaaaaat? Favorite trait has to be dev cost or scholar.
So around 2 years back I actually... made a spreadsheet with the Sick Man of Europe ranking every single national idea. Its very out of date now but it exists ;)
You missed "Legendary Pirate" which is available to all pirate nations and is not tag-locked. And since all tags can technically hoist the flag, it should be here.
@@LemonCake101 Almost all the flavour pirate nations have multiple chances to either start with one or gain one later on (all done via region-locking etc). That is the easy way. Then there is event pirates.25, which has a 5% chance of triggering on winning a war, if you have completed the pirate mission which unlocks legendary pirates, and don't currently have a historical pirate in charge. And a third requirement which I don''t understand: FROM = { total_development = ROOT }.
@@lamename2010 oh good to know. By the way, if that code coping was correct, it checks FROM (so from the country currently mentioned) and returns a yes if your total development is equal to... the development of ROOT (which is your country) which means... basically your development needs to be greater or equal to your current development?
As mentioned in the video no: and personally they have enough of an impact over the course of a campaign to effect placement significantly, honestly if at all.
@@LemonCake101 I was cooking for a good part of your video XD, so maybe i missed the disclaimer. Anyways, props to you and your videos, always makes me try interesting challenges! Keep up the great content XD
@@holycow3605 oh no worries, it was in a section called disclaimers so it could have easily been missed. I appreciate the kind words, thank you for your support!
Regarding Fertile, there is also the 25% chance that you are on the part of the PU cycle where dying without an heir will put you straight into a PU, so in that cases it can help sometimes (just being at war though prevents PU). It also helps the Holy Roman Emperor because dying without an heir means losing the emperorship. Niche situations, but they're there.
I mean its 'niche' for sure, lets be clear about that, but I would rather cover that base then ignore it completely, and at the end of the day I am an MP enjoyer myself.
Single player tier list: careful s tier; the rest b tier
The worst part is... your not even that wrong!
Embezzler F
Improve relations helps with ae as well
@@johnconnor8206 Oh trust me, I am aware. That's one of the big reasons I am such a fan of it myself.
No, just is better
I really like your Tier list. Maybe monuments tier list or Government reforms.
All of them are to be considered to be fair, but easier said then done. I will bare the suggestion in mind of course, but no promises!
I think you should've gone into events too (though that would probably make this video way too long)
calm pretty consistently gives you free stab, if you're not already at max
fertiles twin birth event gives a choice of two insane heirs most of the time, meaning you can disinherit more aggressively and hope for rngesus to bless your country
also not getting cometed as scholar is awesome
and some events for the "bad" ruler personalities can offset their negative depending on playstyle
I think that's fair, I had to make a decision weather to cover it or not and well I had to make one, I think it would have made the video 3 hours long if I went into it though. Either way, your point is fair, but I hope you can appreciate the video in its shortened form as well.
Scholar is automatic s tier because avoiding comets is the most satisfying part of the game
@@craigstephenson7676 ah that would be a very different tier list, 'most satisfying parts of the game'
Maybe its time to do Top 5 videos?
That would make infertile S tier, because it increases the chance of the "talented and ambitious daughter" event. (By making it likely that he has no heirs at age 40.)
@@sld1776 I was mostly referring to events unique to leader traits or outcomes that are only possible with them. Even if you account for a higher chance to get this one decent event, you also have higher chances of bad successions due to underage or no heirs, plus having a female ruler can be detrimental sometimes so the event isn't even S tier material
That took a while, I didn't quite comprehend there where so many personalities...
I think Scholar is super good, because it relieves the comet sighted event
Eh, I find that event pretty infrequent in fairness
The Tolrerant personality trait has saved my ass so many times from having neghative modifiers to positive
It can be nice marginally, especially for squeezing the last bit of tolerance for getting religious unity up, but you really should not be relying on it.
@@LemonCake101 I believe what the other commenter meant is that it reduces or eliminates the religious intolerance penalties (you get -10% goods produced and tax per point of intolerance). I still wouldn't rank the trait higher, because most of the time you either stack missionary strength to convert everything, or you have positive tolerance. Hence only a small number of provinces will be affected. Also, trade companies are excluded from the penalty.
Hell yeah. Love your EU4 tier lists man. I study them continually 👍
Glad you enjoyed!
Another vid to distract me from work thanks lemon
Glad to be supportive, feel free to use this one as background noise!
@@LemonCake101 this vid got me throuhj a grueling shift (ps careful is s tier)
@@alexandersen1987 oh in SP, for sure. Glad I could be off service!
Great tier list! The only ones I would rank higher than you did are Intricate Webweaver, Conqueror and Patron of the Arts.
Fair enough, it is quite opinion based, and if you are going for Separatism reduction Conqueror certainly can see a higher spot. As for Intricate Webweaver: I don't use spies enough for that, and when I do its for siege ability against a single tag, and that's mainly just keeping it at 100.
Spy network/claim fabrication is better than you give it credit. It affects: siege ability, unjustified demands, unlawful territory, AE impact, CCR, and tech cost. It should definitely be C tier for just saving you the admin and diplo mana from CCR and unjustified demands alone. It's a really useful modifier to stack with the advisor and espionage ideas, especially in the HRE
I mean yes, you are correct. It does, I mean the AE reduction only targets the country you have the spy network on, but the Siege ability is what I find the most useful there. My issue and the reason I personally dislike it is 90% of the time any spare diplomats I have are in desperation trying to improve relations with any potential coalition members so I tend to not really have spare diplomats (in my playstyle) to build spy networks. If you are more spy network heavy, improve relations drops a touch and I guess the spy trait improves.
Good tier list! But when we will see you play Anbennar?)
I may put up a poll to see if enough people would be interested in Anbennar content, otherwise there are plenty of other people doing runs of it on TH-cam I imagine :)
43:45 the reason I love YoS reduction is it near impossible to ever get a 2nd rebellion of the same type no matter what you do outside of like 250 overextension.
For sure, although I have to admit being a over 300% OE kind of guy sometimes
for some reason most of the time in my games Florence doesn't have a leader with patron of the arts (also it's like this for most nations for me, Milan never seems to start with a leader with consistent traits but is agreed to be quite a bad leader in regards to stats), i don't know if I'm just missing a dlc that fixes this or if that was a patch or 2 ago
A lot of those are randomized in fairness
@@LemonCake101 but as Milan for example I've had starting rulers who negatively impacted the economy (which is both annoying and a pain in the early game) who provided 2 national unrest (not reduction) and the only redeeming trait was something obscure and mostly useless (for example being secretive or making my buildings less expensive), it's nice when the starting ruler of Florence has good traits but then you remember he's old and will die soon anyway which makes you half to hope the next ruler either is good or has negatives that mean basically nothing (also i just thought of a few things about eu4 traits that are funny. a theocracy can never have a righteous ruler which means they can never have an objectively good person be ruler no matter what they do, also you can have an incorruptible embezzler)
Does taking into account unique event options change the position of some traits?
For instance a Scholar can get 75 mana instead of 50 in monarch power events, Bold fighter can take +10% siege ability from "army divided" event for 15 years instead of 10, or Babbling Buffoon during "scandal at the court" can pick -5 prestige instead of stab hit or corruption
I think it can move them around a bit, but the issue with it the events themselves are quite infrequent, and I don't know if that would be enough to justify a move, or how much, hence I avoided it altogether.
Or +25 adm power in comet events
Under valuing the siege ability & tech discount from spy networks
The siege ability is good but you get there anyway without the trait: same for the tech discount.
Lemon I edge to your tier lists
Honestly impressive considering how long they are!
Fertile is underrated. Helps alot when you get a chain of bad heirs and have to reroll multiple times. Sure, thats situational but still not bottom. Getting a good ruler helps your country big time and fertile helps with getting him. The game can troll with the heir rng after all.
That is true enough, in some cases it’s nice to have to get an heir in a pinch, but for me that situation happens to be pretty rare when we consider the actual amount of times that happens in a game. But I see the argument that it is nice to have as some sort of insurance
I wish EU4 were a less niche game so you could get the viewership you deserve :') Every video is so well done
Aw thank you, appreciate the feedback!
idk about not using vassals after 1610. i just split teritorial gains between 2 vassals. works well
I like naive enthusiast because it helps with all the bad events
Well I'm not sure, but I think legendary pirate is not a mission reward personality. You have a chance of getting it as any pirate republic. There's also another trait wich is protector of little folk. I thought you can only get it as peasent republic Aragon through an event, but you can get it as any peasent republic. I noticed that in my Ditmarchen to Russia camping.
Interesting, I know the Peasant Republic Aragon has a chance to give that out, I wasn't aware it was for every Peasant Republic. As for Legendary Pirate, yes I was wrong I thought it was a Gotland exclusive but I didn't realize it was any Pirate.
There are a few unique personality you get from mission which are all bonkers level
Oh yeah, its quite insane!
You forgot to mention that when AI can press claim throne button on you, they can turn hostile in latest patches. Making fertile slightly more useful to keep alliances. And it also allows you to roll for better heir faster. Still a D tier imo.
Maneuver pips allows to avoid straights and rivers penalties if your general have more that enemy general. It is situational, and you avoid them already with microing but it helps you with ai not getting the penalty it.
Other than that, nice tierlist that I fully agree with. Entries are weighed amazingly against each other and follow a bell curve as they should.
I guess avoiding hostile AI is a fair point, but no enough to get it out of D. As for maneuver avoiding straight penalties, I do mention that in fairness,and that’s why it’s not in D tbf
@@LemonCake101 Bit of correction, not hostile, domineering. Not like it changes much. And something esle to consider: largest by dev religious group in the game renders fertile trait basically irrelevant.
Also I must've missed the maneuver pip evaluation there, I swear I didn't hear anything about pips themselves.
@@madddd1 I do believe I mentioned off hand how it can help when crossing rivers, but in fairness I may have just planned to say that and didn't end up doing so. Either way, the point still stands, and well observed non the less.
Me locked in with laser focus on a tier list for something that is completely random
nope, some events get trigged more/less depending on your ruler stats!
you are the best eu4 youtuber!!!
Thanks for the support!
I'd love to see a game where every ruler is a bold fighter
I mean could throw that together as a mod in a couple min, I’m just not sure what to specifically look for if I do that
@@LemonCake101 i just thought maybe it would be fun to see how many wars there would be. maybe it be better for a timelapse
@@henkkoonstra4014 oh fair, it would increase the AI aggressiveness.. might be a shout!
You forgot the immortal personality
Can't get that one 'legitimately' or without using Custom Nations.
Yep that's the joke kek
@@Ugapiku ah fair enough, hard to get jokes through comments :(
@@LemonCake101 hehe no worries ;)
@@Ugapiku 👍
When the personality decision in an event is worse than the other options in an event
I do love that sometimes to be fair!
In Single-Player AE is S and Conquerer is A
I won't put Conqueror all the way up to A in SP, but I did mention AE being S in SP to be fair.
@@LemonCake101 I Personally like Stacking Years of Seperatism (Aka Humanist) so i can avoid those annoying Seperatists and Seperatism on provinces.
@@sealking1775 oh that's fair, I am an enjoyer of that myself.
My top 3 personal fav : Conqueror, Strict and Industrious
I don't disagree that much, and if you are building around separatism reduction, conqueror is really nice for sure!
Did he make a negative tierlist?
A long teir list (that could be broken up) is national ideas like 10% production efficiency, naval force limit, can (not) recruit female generals.
Do i just want to see naval force limklit and croatian ideas ranked... whaaaaat? Favorite trait has to be dev cost or scholar.
So around 2 years back I actually... made a spreadsheet with the Sick Man of Europe ranking every single national idea. Its very out of date now but it exists ;)
You missed "Legendary Pirate" which is available to all pirate nations and is not tag-locked. And since all tags can technically hoist the flag, it should be here.
Is it really available to all Pirate Nations? I thought it was a Gotland Exclusive for some reason... good to know!
@@LemonCake101 Almost all the flavour pirate nations have multiple chances to either start with one or gain one later on (all done via region-locking etc). That is the easy way. Then there is event pirates.25, which has a 5% chance of triggering on winning a war, if you have completed the pirate mission which unlocks legendary pirates, and don't currently have a historical pirate in charge. And a third requirement which I don''t understand: FROM = { total_development = ROOT }.
@@lamename2010 oh good to know. By the way, if that code coping was correct, it checks FROM (so from the country currently mentioned) and returns a yes if your total development is equal to... the development of ROOT (which is your country) which means... basically your development needs to be greater or equal to your current development?
@@LemonCake101 Very strange requirement. Maybe a way to check that you took land? EU4 pseudo-code sometimes really makes no sense.
@@lamename2010 honestly I have no idea, as that doesn't check that you took land? Only that you... are at least the size you are?
Based video (good opinion), btw can u pls give me their ids (like for example: patron of arts trait id) pls
Thanks! Best place to look is the personalities file in the game for those, I don’t think they are in the wiki anywhere
U didn't account random events with the personalities...
As mentioned in the video no: and personally they have enough of an impact over the course of a campaign to effect placement significantly, honestly if at all.
@@LemonCake101 I was cooking for a good part of your video XD, so maybe i missed the disclaimer. Anyways, props to you and your videos, always makes me try interesting challenges! Keep up the great content XD
@@holycow3605 oh no worries, it was in a section called disclaimers so it could have easily been missed. I appreciate the kind words, thank you for your support!
nice vid
Thanks, appreciate it!
Well Advised is a colonial range buff 90% of time when it's relevant
I mean it saves you money too, let’s be clear
W
Thank you, appreciate it!
Regarding Fertile, there is also the 25% chance that you are on the part of the PU cycle where dying without an heir will put you straight into a PU, so in that cases it can help sometimes (just being at war though prevents PU). It also helps the Holy Roman Emperor because dying without an heir means losing the emperorship. Niche situations, but they're there.
That's fair I guess, but it doesn't exactly prevent those cases either, just decreases their chance...
gggg
honestly multiplayer is such a niche they should just be forgotten about
I mean its 'niche' for sure, lets be clear about that, but I would rather cover that base then ignore it completely, and at the end of the day I am an MP enjoyer myself.
Don't try to tell the devs that. They love making garbage changes for the sake of multiplayer.
@@blastification2 yeah, I mean I can try, but at the end of the day dedicated MP enjoyers like me run MP mods anyway.
We need tir list of bad trait...
Its included, last part of the video!