haha - If the walnuts themselves, paw-paw fruit, persimmon fruit, redbud flowers, black locust flowers, and black raspberries are not enough, what do folks expect from a piece of land? Every one of those is wonderful, by itself! To have them altogether is even more wonderful. In foraging for black raspberries in the eastern US, I specifically look for black walnuts on field edges. That's where I find the most robust and productive stands of blackcaps. I'd be happy with the two of those, focused on high production of the black raspberries. I admire the black walnut's ability to be so productive, even though it's in 'hibernation' most of the year, especially in your region. It's the last to leaf out in the spring and the first to call it quits in the fall. It spends most of its life without leaves at all.
I find that the best tasting and deepest colored black caps are under black walnut. It makes them much better, doesn't it? And great observation about the light partitioning, too. Solid canopy but open for so much of the year, there is a lot of potential for all that unused light.
Yes, indeed. The berries are better quality under black walnut. Black raspberries can struggle in so many other settings. But they thrive so well with black walnuts.
I work with black walnut at a research farm. This year, I saw a lot of physallis spp. growing in the understory. I think ground cherry would be a good choice to grow under black walnut.
That is surprising, since tomatoes and related nightshades are usually cited as "most vulnerable, death guaranteed." It could be a case of shallow roots not yet getting near the walnut roots, or perhaps a case of near relatives being differently adapted (e.g. apples, red raspberries are highly vulnerable, but pears are often listed as resistant [go figure--we have North American crabapples, but no native pears], and black raspberries [Rubus occidentalis, not necessarily R. leucodermis from the West Coast or R. niveus from the tropics] thrive.
We have a fairly large black Walnut in our yard. Honeysuckle and a Privet grow happily directly beneath it, as does a Forsythia. I thought Motherwort would be okay but it didn't work. As to using the Walnut, we make syrup every year from the sap. To my taste it's at least as good as Maple syrup, with a slightly different flavor. We use the green nuts, cut in half and soaked for a month or so in vinegar. It makes a wonderful flavored vinegar which we use in salad dressings.
I like how you referenced that you can tolerate but that doesn't mean you don't thrive. Thanks for the info.. Once again delivered and gave me the info I needed.
Just rewatching and going through the Edible Acres back catalogue. I remember that a black walnut tree in our back yard is what started my whole journey down the permaculture path. All the local extension office staff and master gardener volunteers told me nothing would grow under it, but a little website called Permies had all sorts of suggestions. That was around 2011-2012, I think! Somewhere around 2014 I had a workshop with Steve Gabriel and we had a rain day so the instructors scrambled and we wound up at Sean and Sasha’s! I wish I still had the Titania currant I brought back, but an unwitting in-law destroyed it. 🤷🏻♂️
Another question to ask is: "Seeing as the black walnut kills most things around it, how can I design something that uses that to advantage, what land use do I wish I had hardly any plants surviving?" Your pawpaw nursery is a good example, you will never have to worry about rogue trees popping up as weeds to pull out in your nursery. I cut down a whole lot of unwanted saplings in the summer and dumped some branches on blackberry bushes in pasture, and the blackberry plants seem to have just MELTED, where I put the branches and a nearby, it was quite spectacular. Blackberry is a terrible weed here on NZ farms and seems to come up in part shade and scrubland that is starting to thin out. One person told me of someone he knew throwing black walnuts into blackberry thickets, and maybe this is why. Could be a good way to establish silvopasture in NZ and prevent the pasture from being invaded by blackberry and shrubs. Medlar seems to survive under black walnut, and hawthorn.
Hello .Thanks for the great video .Intel on the black walnut was wonderful .black walnut can be chipped and put onto morning glory .bye bye morning glory . one year after we planted any thing we wanted .the morning glory never grew back . howie
Great tips as always, Sean. I'm designing a black walnut guild and this is very useful, especially because black locust and autumn olives are among my favorites. I had intended to use paw paws and I'm glad to hear it works beautifully. I'm also planning to use mulberries, which I've read might do well. Do you have any experience with it? On a semi-related note, we hulled two wheelbarrows of black walnuts yesterday using the technique in your previous video. It was fun and quick. Thanks again.
SO RAD to hear about the video helping you get excited to process nuts. So incredibly worthwhile! I haven't experimented with mulberry, I think that is on the list for next year though!
I use the nuts skin and flesh, while still green, to treat warts on my kids. Always wear gloves, it will stain everything, rub on wart till stained green, let area dry before touching it, it really stains everything! It usually only took 3 days to a week, reapplying every day. The younger kids enjoy being told they are turning into frogs/dinosaurs.
Question. At 5:15 it looks like there are poplars in the background that have been pollarded. What are you up to over there? For grazing, or mulch production?
I like when folks have sharp eyes on these videos! Pretty cool to see what people notice. Hybrid poplars planted on close centers, pollarded to provide sources of propagation material to expand plantings outward...
If you plant a ton of those black walnuts 12 feeet apart and prune them correctly after 2nd year, in 20 years you will be sitting on a small fortune in timber to sell to fund your other endeavors. Black walnut is getting hard to find in some parts of the country as it’s been harvested. Plus you can sell the nuts every year to Hammons walnuts in Stockton, Missouri. Black walnut is a good retirement investment if you don’t mind pruning them correctly. Better than an IRA. I love black walnut trees. I’m gonna plant about 3 acres of them next spring as a retirement investment.
I’ve read in places that mulberries planted between black walnuts and fruit trees can lessen the effect of juglone. Have you noticed this is your growing? Thanks for sharing your ideas!
I haven't noticed this, but I wouldn't be surprised intuitively because Mulberry grows so incredibly fast I could imagine it drawing a lot up and into their body.
My .4 acre home is lined with black walnut trees. We didn’t know about the juglon and thought how nice the yard looked, like a forest with a lawn in the center. While planning a veg garden for the first year here Iv researched a ton and have been very upset about all Iv read. I’m trying to come to grips with it and embrace the walnuts but I’m going to cut all the small ones down and replace with sugar maples, paw paw and my research shows plums, apricots, peaches (stone fruits) tolerate it well. Fingers crossed. Some of the walnut trees are massive and the wild life love them, it would break my heart to cut such glorious trees down. And I totally agree with the witchy feel, it’s part of what drew me in to purchasing this property 😁🥰 I’m going to have a ton of walnuts to process this fall (that’s me being optimistic about the hand Iv been felt 🤣🤣🤣)
PLEASE don't cut the walnuts down... The food they offer you is off the charts more fat and protein than you could grow by killing them and toiling in the sun all season! Deep raised beds would let you grow all the annuals you wanted, especially with a few layers of cardboard to keep the walnut roots out from the beds for a bunch of years. Plum work great, persimmon, paw paw, mulberry, elderberry, black cap raspberry... All thoroughly tested in our system and very very happy near Walnut. What we read tends to be pretty thin and pretty limited in scope and often just repeated from others... Walnut is wonderful and generous and picky about who can grow near them but they are fundamentally a very potent ally to your well being.
I have a few Carpathian walnuts growing in our garden and have pretty happy figs, mulberry, blackberry underneat them. This year I planted a row of oak and a row of turkish hazel by the edge of two walnuts root zone (guessing by the size of the canopy). What do you know about these slow growing trees' juglone appetite? Also, a quick one. I started mulching around my beloved walnutes 2 years ago and now I have loads of saplings coming up there. What would be a good value of them? I pulled one up and it had an insane long root - double the size of the sapling. Strong little troopers, but what can I do with them?
You can dig those seedlings up when dormant and move to new locations. If they are 1st year, you can cut the tap root without it killing them. They may grow slowly at first but recover reallly darn fast I've found. Carpathian walnut seems to give off next to no juglone...
@@edibleacres Cheers man. I think I am gonna leave them by their mama for another year and get them out next autumn. Partly coz they look happy all together for now and sadly I have no space for them. Btw, if you would be planting a walnut 'thicket' what would be your minimum spacing? I've seen really dence ones growing wild on abandoned properties in the village but wasn't able to inspect how productive it was.
We have three that I have identified so far. I can suggest anything that will grow under them but I can tell you that if the black walnut branches touch apple tree branches the apple tree branches die. We bought a farm and are just learning what is there.
I have 4 on the fenceline if my new property. Sadly, there are no pawpaws. But I have, in the nursery bed, the fix for that. Hopefully next year my 15 pawpaws will be big enough to start my black walnut, pawpaw, redbud, persimmon, hackberry forest. I have 2.5 acres to block in with trees.
@@edibleacres , i hope so. I have the black walnuts, hackberries, and redbuds already in place along the edge of that field. Nature got started before I got here. :)
I can see your pawpaw are really close to the trunk of the black walnut :do you have pruned the underpart of the walnut to make it work? It would be great if you could share the spacing for this particular guild and between 2 black walnut as well Thanks for your nice videos
I wouldn’t grow my garden under walnut trees. But if I had a big property, I would definitely plant a grove for nut production, wildlife, and later on timber.
You can wear gloves. Personally, I love getting the stain and being proud of living a good life! Also, it's a good chance to have people ask about it and explain how they could have stained hands too...
I just purchased a large wooded property and 99 percent of the trees are black walnut... I also bought a wood chipper to produce my own mulch. All this before knowing about Juglone. So my question is can I use that mulch under shrubs and in the garden?
@@MichaelJosephJr934 Juglone breaks down in bacterially dominate soil, which is exactly what compost is. The mulch will possibly leach out juglone as it breaks down but the compost should be safe as long as it is fully composted. But juglone is concentrated mostly in the roots, with the leaves and nut husks containing the next highest concentrations, so the wood mulch might not be as big of an issue as it seems. Your best bet would be to test the mulch around a sensitive plant first, then go from there with whatever results present themselves.
Hey Sean! Commenting on this video from five years ago to see if you have any advice on black walnut wood chips. Have you ever received any during a chip drop? If so, have you used it differently than wood chips from other species due to the presence of juglones? Thanks! :)
I'd think it's something to say yes to and maybe use more as a walkway chip instead of an in-garden chip. Should work OK in that context and break down slowly without much fuss...
Gia's Garden has a nice bit about designing with juglone (chapter 8 if you're interested). The trio of walnut, hackberry, and currant seems to be pretty successful. Peppers seem to tolerate juglone too. With peppers, stress can create a hotter pepper so just "tolerating" the juglone might be desirable.
We buried Igor under our European walnut. I have some hostess I want to split so I will test that. And definitely will plant one of my autumn olives. Thanks. Am I correct in thinking the white walnut is not as jugalone heavy.
I haven't tested them in a very thorough way so I can't say. I will say that some honeyberries I planted near a black walnut died and it definitely could have been weeds but I think the walnut seemed to have a negative effect...
Very helpful info! i did plant some hazelnuts under black walnuts... they are still small so i might move them... how easy is it to propagate Aut. Ol. ( i am afraid to type it out ). But yes to the Paw paw! It is like two native best fruiting friends!
AO move by birds pooping out the seeds... I haven't had them come up much outside of where I've planted them, but you could save seed from prime candidates and try growing it! Paw paw and black walnut, BFF!
Thanks for this! Is the hazelnut a Corylus americana, or is it Corylus avellana? I'm trying to find out if Corylus avellana is juglone tolerant enough to work in a guild with English Walnut
English Walnut is pretty Juglone light from what I understand, so you should be more OK... In this case they are Americana, but I have some Avellana/Americana hybrids not too far that seem pretty darn happy as well. With Juglans Regia I'd suspect it's a great design either way.
In my area of Northern MI, black caps, hawthorn, viburnum, and many non-edible shrubs (including lonicera so maybe hascap would work). Maples seem to be resistant and invade as well, which could be a minor component for the long run.
I'm trialing haskaps under it right now and so far they don't seem to be able to handle it. I'm getting hawthorn as a candidate from a few folks, would be cool to experiment.
Your autumn olive looks so much different than ours (your branches are further apart overall and not as close to the ground). Does it grow that way naturally under walnut, or did you prune it that way? We have so much autumn olive, and it grows so fast, that we do pruning & harvesting at the same time, but it still spreads. It's in sandy soil and mostly full sun. Looking forward to autumn olive pie this fall.
Blueberries are killed. Blackberries are listed as vulnerable, but include many species so you might get lucky and find an exception. Black raspberries are native in the upper Midwest / Ohio Valley and sold by lots of nurseries (Indiana Berry...). They propagate easily by tip layering. However they don't like every climate (won't survive the Deep South or arid Southwest for example) if that is what you were asking.
Thanks for your advice! I am checking them out right now. Have you ever considered using bones in your wood stove kiln, and then pulverizing them for added nutrients to your garden? Thanks again!
They are ground and added to commercial drilling muds as an abrasive, but for the homeowner, marketing is probably a hassle, so making charcoal would be more logical.
What about edible bamboo? Can you get inoculated walnuts with some kind of fungal harvest like truffles? Some Acer do well apparently so possible syrup?
I would expect more resistance from natives than from Asian plants (our native wetland Arundinaria bamboos from the Southeast are in a wetter habitat than walnut, and are used for fishing poles but not shoots so far as I know), since Asian plants never had to deal with black walnut. Juglans regia (Carpathian or regular walnut) gets at least as far east as the Tian Shan on red China's northwestern border, but doesn't produce nearly as much juglone.
@@Erewhon2024 so true... finding the balance and being a creator of your own micro system in your micro climate is a total learning curve. Some things we thought would thrive didn’t because I failed to properly research the rootstock... we live up in a bowl shaped valley surrounded by hills we have dense clay soil, but our local plant store is next to a sandy beach so they tend to sell plants suitable for that soil ... so mail order the best varieties has worked much better. I need to find 2 other decent sized walnuts to compliment our tree since the male and female flowers don’t seem to open together.
Thanks for your insights! You stated that "...they [Asimina Triloba] have been here for eight years...the largest one is actually producing its first fruits this year..." So from seed to fruit takes eight years? Is there any way to get fruit faster? Thanks!
Only economical in the nursery sense (propagate and sell to butterfly lovers in the eastern half of the U.S., where Spicebush, Eastern Tiger, and Palamedes Swallowtails use it as a larval host), but spicebush (Lindera benzoin) does fine and smells nice. It can be used for tea and the females produce oily red berries that birds like and which have supposedly been used as an allspice substitute (tastes more like black pepper to me, though). If you live north of the hardiness of the invasive Redbay Ambrosia Beetle (thanks, PDR China!), sassafras is a juglone adapted tree though it is also allelopathic at least to many grasses (bluegrass at least thrives under black walnut) if you feel you must have a lawn under a picnic site. Sassafras leaves are the spice/thickener, gumbo file, but that is well known only in Cajun gastronomy, which limits your market. (Lindera is also vulnerable to the ambrosia beetle and its symbiont, Laurel Wilt Disease, but as a twiggy shrub, may not be attractive as a food source to the wood-boring beetle. All members of the Lauraceae found outside of Asia are killed by this disease.)
Silverberries are one of my favorite fruits and the Autumn olive is a great plant! Nitrogen fixer, great for bees, great nurse plant for trees, and it's berries make the best jelly you'll ever taste!
Black locust "invasive illegal aliens" cracks me up that it is classed as an invasive in places that are in its natural range. It's a Native for many of us - but we may still be told it's "invasive". And I need it for my property ;)
hi, i've own my property for 9 yeas. there are 2 big blk walnut trees-well established. 3 years ago i started having reaction to the Juglone -oil in the soil. i itch horrible and , if i were to handle the nuts in the casting, my hands swell 3 x's the size. cutting the trees willnot stop the problem as it is in the soil. and digging 4-6 feet of soil to replace is impossible expensive. is there anything i can add to my soil to balance this toxin?
You can focus on planting juglone tolerant perennials around them and enjoy the bounty. Paw Paws, Black Caps, Mulberry, Elderberry... I'm sure many more.
Black walnut wood is very valuable if the tree is grown to produce veneer wood ( few branches, long trunk), but that would a sad outcome with a bunch of paw paw trees underneath.
Thanks for the info on autumn olive. Everyone i know (who knows what aolive IS) HATES it, says even the deer wont eat it. I've been looking for a reason not to hate it too, i said its gotta be good for something. Subscribed
I actually love the plant. I think the people that hate it the most often have pretty limited actual experience with it (other than killing it). There aren't many 'invasive aliens' that I have a problem with.
@@edibleacres it seems to me, as the climate changes, that we get more and more "invasives", but I think many of them are simply following the weather. (We're mostly invasives too...)
Sean, I have a video of my interpretation of the information I got from you and Akiva, on Stratifying the seeds, going up on Monday, I would appreciate it if you could check it out and let me know if I screwed anything up.
They aren't dioecious, as in some are male and some female. But you do need multiple for good pollination. Starting with a minimum of 2 is appropriate, but I'd go for more if you have the room!
I am struggling with my front yard food forest/garden because of the black walnut street tree. It’s roots are under my main sunny spot and the tree doesn’t even give nuts - a sad hybrid. On top of that we are all allergic to the leaves in the fall and it is torture to get them off the garden. I am feeling bad, but may request the village remove it
I would reach out to my friend Liam - liampunshon91@gmail.com I'm not sure if he still has them but he was selling husked walnuts in shell this fall. Let him know I sent ya!
honeysuckle is alleopathic too; its mychorizzae have compounds that are poison to other species. So two alleopathic plants battling it out lol. I don't like the flavor of autumn olive, but love goumi; and its not invasive. Prefer honey locust to black locust; pods are more useful if you choose a good cultivar. That said.. i love your philosophy overall. paw paw are my favorite fruit, then american persimmon
A tree that kills almost every plant beneath it? Sounds like a great low effort outdoor spot to put a table and benches for making BBQ, marshmellows or bread on stick every once in a while, or just having a meal outside if its warm. Does this burn easily?
If dried for a good while, black walnut can burn beautifully. It's a pretty wonderful tree, and your description of a use for the space it creates sounds pretty spot on!
EdibleAcres the burning question was mostly about it not accidentally catching fires, that happened once with a tree while we were making BBQ a few meters away. The tree didn't burn down, but I wouldn't risk such stuff again.
i would only use black walnut, AO, and Pawpaw around the edges of a zone 3-4 food forest, wouldnt let them thrive in a zone 1 or 2 area where i would probably be cultivating higher value crops. thanks as always for your informative content, love how you fit years of wisdom in a short snippet.
Yeah, makes perfect sense. I would never think to intentionally plant black walnut near other complex gardens. It's more about what do you do with their presence already influencing areas.
Yes, I have seen it done in my neighborhood and in pictures. Did you know that hostas are edible? plantaginea sieboldii Montana. shoots are supposedly the tastiest. I admit I have not eaten them.
haha - If the walnuts themselves, paw-paw fruit, persimmon fruit, redbud flowers, black locust flowers, and black raspberries are not enough, what do folks expect from a piece of land? Every one of those is wonderful, by itself! To have them altogether is even more wonderful. In foraging for black raspberries in the eastern US, I specifically look for black walnuts on field edges. That's where I find the most robust and productive stands of blackcaps. I'd be happy with the two of those, focused on high production of the black raspberries.
I admire the black walnut's ability to be so productive, even though it's in 'hibernation' most of the year, especially in your region. It's the last to leaf out in the spring and the first to call it quits in the fall. It spends most of its life without leaves at all.
I find that the best tasting and deepest colored black caps are under black walnut. It makes them much better, doesn't it?
And great observation about the light partitioning, too. Solid canopy but open for so much of the year, there is a lot of potential for all that unused light.
Yes, indeed. The berries are better quality under black walnut. Black raspberries can struggle in so many other settings. But they thrive so well with black walnuts.
"sleeping under a bunch of old, really smart witches" - love it!
What a lovely tribute to a magnificent tree. Love it.
I work with black walnut at a research farm. This year, I saw a lot of physallis spp. growing in the understory. I think ground cherry would be a good choice to grow under black walnut.
That is surprising, since tomatoes and related nightshades are usually cited as "most vulnerable, death guaranteed." It could be a case of shallow roots not yet getting near the walnut roots, or perhaps a case of near relatives being differently adapted (e.g. apples, red raspberries are highly vulnerable, but pears are often listed as resistant [go figure--we have North American crabapples, but no native pears], and black raspberries [Rubus occidentalis, not necessarily R. leucodermis from the West Coast or R. niveus from the tropics] thrive.
We have a fairly large black Walnut in our yard. Honeysuckle and a Privet grow happily directly beneath it, as does a Forsythia. I thought Motherwort would be okay but it didn't work.
As to using the Walnut, we make syrup every year from the sap. To my taste it's at least as good as Maple syrup, with a slightly different flavor.
We use the green nuts, cut in half and soaked for a month or so in vinegar. It makes a wonderful flavored vinegar which we use in salad dressings.
I like how you referenced that you can tolerate but that doesn't mean you don't thrive. Thanks for the info.. Once again delivered and gave me the info I needed.
Glad to be helpful when I can.
This is great! I'm making a black walnut guild around the corner :) just learning what I can. This is really helpful! Thank you!
Also, I read that currants, gooseberry, seaberry, and mulberry do well - did you try any of these?
Mulberry and Seaberry seem pretty good so far, currants and gooseberries didn't seem to thrive, but may be worth experimenting more with.
Just rewatching and going through the Edible Acres back catalogue. I remember that a black walnut tree in our back yard is what started my whole journey down the permaculture path. All the local extension office staff and master gardener volunteers told me nothing would grow under it, but a little website called Permies had all sorts of suggestions. That was around 2011-2012, I think! Somewhere around 2014 I had a workshop with Steve Gabriel and we had a rain day so the instructors scrambled and we wound up at Sean and Sasha’s! I wish I still had the Titania currant I brought back, but an unwitting in-law destroyed it. 🤷🏻♂️
Awesome video. I've been contemplating a lot of the same subjects you went over in the video.
Another question to ask is: "Seeing as the black walnut kills most things around it, how can I design something that uses that to advantage, what land use do I wish I had hardly any plants surviving?" Your pawpaw nursery is a good example, you will never have to worry about rogue trees popping up as weeds to pull out in your nursery. I cut down a whole lot of unwanted saplings in the summer and dumped some branches on blackberry bushes in pasture, and the blackberry plants seem to have just MELTED, where I put the branches and a nearby, it was quite spectacular. Blackberry is a terrible weed here on NZ farms and seems to come up in part shade and scrubland that is starting to thin out. One person told me of someone he knew throwing black walnuts into blackberry thickets, and maybe this is why. Could be a good way to establish silvopasture in NZ and prevent the pasture from being invaded by blackberry and shrubs. Medlar seems to survive under black walnut, and hawthorn.
Hello .Thanks for the great video .Intel on the black walnut was wonderful .black walnut can be chipped and put onto morning glory .bye bye morning glory . one year after we planted any thing we wanted .the morning glory never grew back . howie
Great tips as always, Sean. I'm designing a black walnut guild and this is very useful, especially because black locust and autumn olives are among my favorites. I had intended to use paw paws and I'm glad to hear it works beautifully. I'm also planning to use mulberries, which I've read might do well. Do you have any experience with it? On a semi-related note, we hulled two wheelbarrows of black walnuts yesterday using the technique in your previous video. It was fun and quick. Thanks again.
SO RAD to hear about the video helping you get excited to process nuts. So incredibly worthwhile!
I haven't experimented with mulberry, I think that is on the list for next year though!
@@edibleacres Mulberry was my question ;)
I have black walnut and mulberry next to each other on my property for 30 years now. 👍
The first paw paws I ever found were growing in the shade of a black walnut.
This video inspires me to try to embrace those old witchy black walnut trees who inhabit my property. Thanks!
They really are witchy, in the best ways. I lived under a Black Walnut grove for most of.a year once in a tent and I felt the spell :)
Self seeding spring onions love it at my place.
I use the nuts skin and flesh, while still green, to treat warts on my kids. Always wear gloves, it will stain everything, rub on wart till stained green, let area dry before touching it, it really stains everything! It usually only took 3 days to a week, reapplying every day. The younger kids enjoy being told they are turning into frogs/dinosaurs.
Powerful trees with such important medicines, foods, and so much more. Thanks for sharing this!
I always learn so much from your videos, thank you!
Question. At 5:15 it looks like there are poplars in the background that have been pollarded. What are you up to over there? For grazing, or mulch production?
I like when folks have sharp eyes on these videos! Pretty cool to see what people notice. Hybrid poplars planted on close centers, pollarded to provide sources of propagation material to expand plantings outward...
Vaaaaaluable information my friend!
Nettles LOVE to grow under Black Walnut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also Violets. Comfrey. Daphne odora.
Good info there. Nettles would be a great fit since we enjoy being able to harvest and dry so many!
That is awesome information!
If you plant a ton of those black walnuts 12 feeet apart and prune them correctly after 2nd year, in 20 years you will be sitting on a small fortune in timber to sell to fund your other endeavors. Black walnut is getting hard to find in some parts of the country as it’s been harvested. Plus you can sell the nuts every year to Hammons walnuts in Stockton, Missouri. Black walnut is a good retirement investment if you don’t mind pruning them correctly. Better than an IRA. I love black walnut trees. I’m gonna plant about 3 acres of them next spring as a retirement investment.
Trees in general seem very much a good long term investment!
very good information, thank you so much, I grow under many of these, very fertile trees.
if you plan to have a grass area then grass grows really well under a black walnut.
I’ve read in places that mulberries planted between black walnuts and fruit trees can lessen the effect of juglone. Have you noticed this is your growing? Thanks for sharing your ideas!
I haven't noticed this, but I wouldn't be surprised intuitively because Mulberry grows so incredibly fast I could imagine it drawing a lot up and into their body.
My .4 acre home is lined with black walnut trees. We didn’t know about the juglon and thought how nice the yard looked, like a forest with a lawn in the center. While planning a veg garden for the first year here Iv researched a ton and have been very upset about all Iv read. I’m trying to come to grips with it and embrace the walnuts but I’m going to cut all the small ones down and replace with sugar maples, paw paw and my research shows plums, apricots, peaches (stone fruits) tolerate it well. Fingers crossed. Some of the walnut trees are massive and the wild life love them, it would break my heart to cut such glorious trees down. And I totally agree with the witchy feel, it’s part of what drew me in to purchasing this property 😁🥰 I’m going to have a ton of walnuts to process this fall (that’s me being optimistic about the hand Iv been felt 🤣🤣🤣)
PLEASE don't cut the walnuts down... The food they offer you is off the charts more fat and protein than you could grow by killing them and toiling in the sun all season! Deep raised beds would let you grow all the annuals you wanted, especially with a few layers of cardboard to keep the walnut roots out from the beds for a bunch of years. Plum work great, persimmon, paw paw, mulberry, elderberry, black cap raspberry... All thoroughly tested in our system and very very happy near Walnut.
What we read tends to be pretty thin and pretty limited in scope and often just repeated from others... Walnut is wonderful and generous and picky about who can grow near them but they are fundamentally a very potent ally to your well being.
I have a few Carpathian walnuts growing in our garden and have pretty happy figs, mulberry, blackberry underneat them. This year I planted a row of oak and a row of turkish hazel by the edge of two walnuts root zone (guessing by the size of the canopy). What do you know about these slow growing trees' juglone appetite?
Also, a quick one. I started mulching around my beloved walnutes 2 years ago and now I have loads of saplings coming up there. What would be a good value of them? I pulled one up and it had an insane long root - double the size of the sapling. Strong little troopers, but what can I do with them?
You can dig those seedlings up when dormant and move to new locations. If they are 1st year, you can cut the tap root without it killing them. They may grow slowly at first but recover reallly darn fast I've found.
Carpathian walnut seems to give off next to no juglone...
@@edibleacres Cheers man. I think I am gonna leave them by their mama for another year and get them out next autumn. Partly coz they look happy all together for now and sadly I have no space for them. Btw, if you would be planting a walnut 'thicket' what would be your minimum spacing? I've seen really dence ones growing wild on abandoned properties in the village but wasn't able to inspect how productive it was.
We have three that I have identified so far. I can suggest anything that will grow under them but I can tell you that if the black walnut branches touch apple tree branches the apple tree branches die. We bought a farm and are just learning what is there.
I have 4 on the fenceline if my new property. Sadly, there are no pawpaws. But I have, in the nursery bed, the fix for that. Hopefully next year my 15 pawpaws will be big enough to start my black walnut, pawpaw, redbud, persimmon, hackberry forest. I have 2.5 acres to block in with trees.
That sounds like a great combination there, awesome!
@@edibleacres , i hope so. I have the black walnuts, hackberries, and redbuds already in place along the edge of that field. Nature got started before I got here. :)
I can see your pawpaw are really close to the trunk of the black walnut :do you have pruned the underpart of the walnut to make it work?
It would be great if you could share the spacing for this particular guild and between 2 black walnut as well
Thanks for your nice videos
No specific formula. The underpart I don't understand... But the Walnut are there and healthy and the guild works wonderfully.
@@edibleacres Apologises I wrote with phone with my french text editor..
I just rewrite my question,hope it's understable now..
I wouldn’t grow my garden under walnut trees. But if I had a big property, I would definitely plant a grove for nut production, wildlife, and later on timber.
you got walnut fingers...what do you suggest to get rid of the staines?
You can wear gloves. Personally, I love getting the stain and being proud of living a good life! Also, it's a good chance to have people ask about it and explain how they could have stained hands too...
Sandpaper?
Time. ;)
I just purchased a large wooded property and 99 percent of the trees are black walnut... I also bought a wood chipper to produce my own mulch. All this before knowing about Juglone.
So my question is can I use that mulch under shrubs and in the garden?
I also have built 4 compost bins adding wood chips and now I'm wonder if that compost will even be usable.
@@MichaelJosephJr934 Juglone breaks down in bacterially dominate soil, which is exactly what compost is. The mulch will possibly leach out juglone as it breaks down but the compost should be safe as long as it is fully composted. But juglone is concentrated mostly in the roots, with the leaves and nut husks containing the next highest concentrations, so the wood mulch might not be as big of an issue as it seems. Your best bet would be to test the mulch around a sensitive plant first, then go from there with whatever results present themselves.
Hey Sean! Commenting on this video from five years ago to see if you have any advice on black walnut wood chips. Have you ever received any during a chip drop? If so, have you used it differently than wood chips from other species due to the presence of juglones? Thanks! :)
I'd think it's something to say yes to and maybe use more as a walkway chip instead of an in-garden chip. Should work OK in that context and break down slowly without much fuss...
@@edibleacres you’re the best! Thank you for being so generous with your time.
Gia's Garden has a nice bit about designing with juglone (chapter 8 if you're interested). The trio of walnut, hackberry, and currant seems to be pretty successful. Peppers seem to tolerate juglone too. With peppers, stress can create a hotter pepper so just "tolerating" the juglone might be desirable.
We buried Igor under our European walnut. I have some hostess I want to split so I will test that. And definitely will plant one of my autumn olives. Thanks. Am I correct in thinking the white walnut is not as jugalone heavy.
white walnuts, butternut, japanese walnut, carpathian, heartnut, all are supposed to be much lighter on juglone.
Mulberry trees, and Gooseberries.
Do you know if Honeyberry and blackberries could growth under or near black walnut tree?
I haven't tested them in a very thorough way so I can't say. I will say that some honeyberries I planted near a black walnut died and it definitely could have been weeds but I think the walnut seemed to have a negative effect...
Will pawpaw continue to thrive under black walnut over time?
It very much seems to.
They do in the wild here in central VA.
Very helpful info! i did plant some hazelnuts under black walnuts... they are still small so i might move them... how easy is it to propagate Aut. Ol. ( i am afraid to type it out ). But yes to the Paw paw! It is like two native best fruiting friends!
AO move by birds pooping out the seeds... I haven't had them come up much outside of where I've planted them, but you could save seed from prime candidates and try growing it! Paw paw and black walnut, BFF!
Thanks for this! Is the hazelnut a Corylus americana, or is it Corylus avellana? I'm trying to find out if Corylus avellana is juglone tolerant enough to work in a guild with English Walnut
English Walnut is pretty Juglone light from what I understand, so you should be more OK... In this case they are Americana, but I have some Avellana/Americana hybrids not too far that seem pretty darn happy as well. With Juglans Regia I'd suspect it's a great design either way.
In my area of Northern MI, black caps, hawthorn, viburnum, and many non-edible shrubs (including lonicera so maybe hascap would work). Maples seem to be resistant and invade as well, which could be a minor component for the long run.
I'm trialing haskaps under it right now and so far they don't seem to be able to handle it. I'm getting hawthorn as a candidate from a few folks, would be cool to experiment.
Your autumn olive looks so much different than ours (your branches are further apart overall and not as close to the ground). Does it grow that way naturally under walnut, or did you prune it that way? We have so much autumn olive, and it grows so fast, that we do pruning & harvesting at the same time, but it still spreads. It's in sandy soil and mostly full sun. Looking forward to autumn olive pie this fall.
Where do we get black raspberries by?
What about blueberries and black berries?
Blueberries are killed. Blackberries are listed as vulnerable, but include many species so you might get lucky and find an exception. Black raspberries are native in the upper Midwest / Ohio Valley and sold by lots of nurseries (Indiana Berry...). They propagate easily by tip layering. However they don't like every climate (won't survive the Deep South or arid Southwest for example) if that is what you were asking.
Any suggestions on what I can do with my over 10 ibs of dried out black walnut shells from my cracked and picked nuts? Thanks!
We make charcoal out of them. You can look at my biochar playlist for more ideas if you wanted.
Thanks for your advice! I am checking them out right now. Have you ever considered using bones in your wood stove kiln, and then pulverizing them for added nutrients to your garden? Thanks again!
They are ground and added to commercial drilling muds as an abrasive, but for the homeowner, marketing is probably a hassle, so making charcoal would be more logical.
Butternuts grow well, as long as long as ash aren't to close or you may have problems with anthracnose.
What about edible bamboo? Can you get inoculated walnuts with some kind of fungal harvest like truffles? Some Acer do well apparently so possible syrup?
Lots of options!
I would expect more resistance from natives than from Asian plants (our native wetland Arundinaria bamboos from the Southeast are in a wetter habitat than walnut, and are used for fishing poles but not shoots so far as I know), since Asian plants never had to deal with black walnut. Juglans regia (Carpathian or regular walnut) gets at least as far east as the Tian Shan on red China's northwestern border, but doesn't produce nearly as much juglone.
@@Erewhon2024 so true... finding the balance and being a creator of your own micro system in your micro climate is a total learning curve. Some things we thought would thrive didn’t because I failed to properly research the rootstock... we live up in a bowl shaped valley surrounded by hills we have dense clay soil, but our local plant store is next to a sandy beach so they tend to sell plants suitable for that soil ... so mail order the best varieties has worked much better. I need to find 2 other decent sized walnuts to compliment our tree since the male and female flowers don’t seem to open together.
Thanks for your insights! You stated that "...they [Asimina Triloba] have been here for eight years...the largest one is actually producing its first fruits this year..." So from seed to fruit takes eight years? Is there any way to get fruit faster? Thanks!
Somewhere between 6-8 years is default from seed I think. You could pay a bunch for a grafted tree that would probably bear fruit a bit faster.
My 20+ YO grafted pawpaw's started fruiting at year 3.
Only economical in the nursery sense (propagate and sell to butterfly lovers in the eastern half of the U.S., where Spicebush, Eastern Tiger, and Palamedes Swallowtails use it as a larval host), but spicebush (Lindera benzoin) does fine and smells nice. It can be used for tea and the females produce oily red berries that birds like and which have supposedly been used as an allspice substitute (tastes more like black pepper to me, though). If you live north of the hardiness of the invasive Redbay Ambrosia Beetle (thanks, PDR China!), sassafras is a juglone adapted tree though it is also allelopathic at least to many grasses (bluegrass at least thrives under black walnut) if you feel you must have a lawn under a picnic site. Sassafras leaves are the spice/thickener, gumbo file, but that is well known only in Cajun gastronomy, which limits your market. (Lindera is also vulnerable to the ambrosia beetle and its symbiont, Laurel Wilt Disease, but as a twiggy shrub, may not be attractive as a food source to the wood-boring beetle. All members of the Lauraceae found outside of Asia are killed by this disease.)
I would assume that I could substitute black walnuts with butternuts and the micro system should work the same
I believe so, and butternuts have less juglone from what I understand of it.
Silverberries are one of my favorite fruits and the Autumn olive is a great plant! Nitrogen fixer, great for bees, great nurse plant for trees, and it's berries make the best jelly you'll ever taste!
Black locust "invasive illegal aliens" cracks me up that it is classed as an invasive in places that are in its natural range. It's a Native for many of us - but we may still be told it's "invasive". And I need it for my property ;)
hi, i've own my property for 9 yeas. there are 2 big blk walnut trees-well established. 3 years ago i started having reaction to the Juglone -oil in the soil. i itch horrible and , if i were to handle the nuts in the casting, my hands swell 3 x's the size. cutting the trees willnot stop the problem as it is in the soil. and digging 4-6 feet of soil to replace is impossible expensive. is there anything i can add to my soil to balance this toxin?
You can focus on planting juglone tolerant perennials around them and enjoy the bounty. Paw Paws, Black Caps, Mulberry, Elderberry... I'm sure many more.
I found a mulberry tree seedling growing just fine under my black walnut. I did not plant it there. Birds?
Could very well be. Mulberry seems quite happy under walnut.
Elderberry does fine
Thats what I'm finding, too. Glad to hear that.
Anyone have experience with Arizona Walnut? Will it kill mesquite trees??
What about Bilberry?
Requires a more acidic soil than walnuts, so not found in the same habitat. Tested Ericaceous plants have all died, much like tomatoes.
Black walnut wood is very valuable if the tree is grown to produce veneer wood ( few branches, long trunk), but that would a sad outcome with a bunch of paw paw trees underneath.
My parents used the black juice from the walnut hulls to cure ringworm.
Thanks for the info on autumn olive. Everyone i know (who knows what aolive IS) HATES it, says even the deer wont eat it. I've been looking for a reason not to hate it too, i said its gotta be good for something.
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I actually love the plant. I think the people that hate it the most often have pretty limited actual experience with it (other than killing it). There aren't many 'invasive aliens' that I have a problem with.
@@edibleacres it seems to me, as the climate changes, that we get more and more "invasives", but I think many of them are simply following the weather.
(We're mostly invasives too...)
Sean, I have a video of my interpretation of the information I got from you and Akiva, on Stratifying the seeds, going up on Monday, I would appreciate it if you could check it out and let me know if I screwed anything up.
Cool man, please pass it along when you make it. Feel free to link it as a comment in the video(s)
It is made, and posted, scheduled for 5:30 Monday, and I shall post the link when it is live.
Ok Sean, I got my Starting Tree Seeds video up th-cam.com/video/EHYhJk4TcHI/w-d-xo.html Any comments, corrections?
I have a 2 huge Black walnuts tree
I'd love to get some paw paw from you. Do you need a male and female? Think I read that somewhere.
They aren't dioecious, as in some are male and some female. But you do need multiple for good pollination. Starting with a minimum of 2 is appropriate, but I'd go for more if you have the room!
2+ different varieties. Like apples, they don't self pollinate.
Pleased to see your inclusion of Paw-Paw . Ty TyVm 🕊️
I am struggling with my front yard food forest/garden because of the black walnut street tree. It’s roots are under my main sunny spot and the tree doesn’t even give nuts - a sad hybrid. On top of that we are all allergic to the leaves in the fall and it is torture to get them off the garden. I am feeling bad, but may request the village remove it
Is it possible if you can please ship me a few pounds of black walnuts? Please pm me
I would reach out to my friend Liam - liampunshon91@gmail.com I'm not sure if he still has them but he was selling husked walnuts in shell this fall. Let him know I sent ya!
honeysuckle is alleopathic too; its mychorizzae have compounds that are poison to other species. So two alleopathic plants battling it out lol. I don't like the flavor of autumn olive, but love goumi; and its not invasive. Prefer honey locust to black locust; pods are more useful if you choose a good cultivar. That said.. i love your philosophy overall. paw paw are my favorite fruit, then american persimmon
A tree that kills almost every plant beneath it? Sounds like a great low effort outdoor spot to put a table and benches for making BBQ, marshmellows or bread on stick every once in a while, or just having a meal outside if its warm. Does this burn easily?
If dried for a good while, black walnut can burn beautifully. It's a pretty wonderful tree, and your description of a use for the space it creates sounds pretty spot on!
EdibleAcres the burning question was mostly about it not accidentally catching fires, that happened once with a tree while we were making BBQ a few meters away. The tree didn't burn down, but I wouldn't risk such stuff again.
i would only use black walnut, AO, and Pawpaw around the edges of a zone 3-4 food forest, wouldnt let them thrive in a zone 1 or 2 area where i would probably be cultivating higher value crops. thanks as always for your informative content, love how you fit years of wisdom in a short snippet.
Yeah, makes perfect sense. I would never think to intentionally plant black walnut near other complex gardens. It's more about what do you do with their presence already influencing areas.
Please don't cut the black walnut tree 😔 it has MANY indigenous medicinal purposes.. I'm native American , this tree is very special.
It is standing, don't worry. I plan to plant more of them for sure and lots of members of its family.
I think Mulberry is Tolerant.
I would definitely agree that I'm seeing that too...
If the government makes a plant illegal, you know it's gotta be good
I hear that.
Hostas
You've seen them grow OK under walnut? That would be a nice addition
Yes, I have seen it done in my neighborhood and in pictures. Did you know that hostas are edible? plantaginea sieboldii Montana. shoots are supposedly the tastiest. I admit I have not eaten them.