If you do there will be a few times where you go "OHhhhhhhh..." because a lot of it calls back (forward?) to LOTRs. Like why the elves and dwarves hate each other😁
Right on. It is a bit like the Book of Genesis, with the one difference that unlike the Bible it does not pretend to be real. Mythology rules, always has.
@@musashimiyamoto586 Genesis and the rest of the Bible is not really about history, it's about living wisely, and in such a way that ensures survival of one's tribe.
@@jonnysongs Is it not? So all those people who still believe whatever religion do not harp on about how some supernatural being creating the world, what, 6000 years ago, while that is never the case with the Silmarillion?
I'm not with you ladies on the battle scenes. Maybe it's just because I'm a guy, but I absolutely love the battle scenes. I don't really care for the action scenes in most fantasy books, especially modern fantasy books, because the authors tend to get overly descriptive and literal in their battle scenes, usually laying out in minute detail everything that happened in the battle, or describing every detail of the choreography of the fight between two characters. It becomes boring and bogged down in too much detail. But Tolkien's battle scenes are told in such a magnificent, poetically rich way, you can't help but feel the grandiosity and the heroism of it all. He has such impeccable artistic and poetic flair in his writings that it brings the battles to life like no other author I have ever read. And there is also a rawness and a realism to the battles that is rare in most fantasy writing, probably due to the fact that Tolkien undoubtedly drew from his very IRL experience of war in World War I. In my opinion, Tolkien is the best writer of battle scenes that there has ever been. Which is probably why he is still the uncontested king of fantasy even all these years later.
I was a bit surprised at that, too. The battle scenes in the book are rare and short. Whereas in the movies they take a _lot_ of screen time--time that would have been better spent on other things, such as more of the orc dialog from the books.
I also agree. The descriptions of protracted battle scenes were more reminiscent of books like the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. The LoTR battle scenes were short and therefore more intense.
@@NigelIncubatorJonesbattle scenes in movie adaptations of fantasy books are always focused on. The same with the dune movie adaptations , the battle scenes in the books are described in little detail just that they happened
I’m a woman and usually don’t care about battle scenes but I LOVED the way Tolkien wrote them. They were so immersive and I lowkey was happy that something was happening that’s not a hike lol
Girls, i am so glad to see you got how special LOTR is. I'm 51 years old from latin America. I have read my fair share of fantasy but nothing compares to Tolkien. Read it at least 4 times and plan a few more before i die. I always tell everybody that reading The Hobbit and LOTR is good for the soul. Take care and keep up the good work.
If you read the Silmarillion (and I hope you do), here's a little advice: Read it in small portions. Doing it all in one go is likely to be too much. Take a break for a minute when you get to something great to digest it. Re-read those parts. Don't worry too much about names. The most important will be repeated many times. Remember many characters end up with more than one name as time goes on. Plan on reading it more than once. You will be surprised how much deeper things can get with every read. Have a map or three handy. Especially a detailed map of Belariand. Refer often while reading.
Your desire to know more about Sauron’s backstory makes reading the Silmarillion a necessity. Wanting to know more about the world and the characters is one of the great strengths of the story, it speaks volumes about the quality of the world building.
I wrote this before watching the entire video (I know it’s a bad thing to do but I worry about forgetting things, I’m getting old) and wanting to understand the final ending and where Frodo sails off to also makes reading the Silmarillion a necessity.
Some of my favorite passages from the books (forgive the length, this was a very inspiring discussion!): From "The Fellowship Of The Ring" - Chapter VI: Lothlórien: "At the hill's foot, Frodo found Aragorn, standing still and silent as a tree; but in his hand was a small golden bloom of elenor, and a light was in his eyes. He was wrapped in some fair memory: and as Frodo looked at him he knew that he beheld things as they once had been in this same place. For the grim years were removed from the face of Aragorn, and he seemed clothed in white, a young lord tall and fair; and he spoke words in the Elvish tongue to one whom Frodo could not see. Arwen vanimelda, namarië! he said, and then he drew a breath, and returning out of his thought he looked at Frodo and smiled. 'Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth,' he said, 'and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that we still must tread, you and I. Come with me!' And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as a living man." From "The Two Towers" - Chapter VIII: The Stairs Of Cirith Ungol: "And so Gollum found them hours later, when he returned, crawling and creeping down the path out of the gloom ahead. Sam sat propped against the stone, his head dropping side-ways and his breathing heavy. In his lap lay Frodo's head, drowned deep in sleep; upon his white forehead lay one of Sam's brown hands, and the other lay softly upon his master's breast. Peace was in both their faces. Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee - but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they had beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing." From "The Return Of The King" - Chapter VI: Many Partings: "Here now for seven days they tarried, for the time was at hand for another parting which they were both to make. Soon Celeborn and Galadriel and their folk would turn eastward, and so pass by the Redhorn Gate and down the Dimrill Stair to the Silverlode and to their own country. They had journeyed thus far by the west-ways, for they had much to speak with Elrond and with Gandalf, and here they lingered still in converse with their friends. Often long after the hobbits were wrapped in sleep they would sit together under the stars, recalling the ages that were gone and all their joys and labours in the world, or holding council, concerning the days to come. If any wanderer had chanced to pass, little would he have seen or heard, and it would have seemed to him only that he saw grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands. For they did not move or speak with mouth, looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro." I'm glad you both found these books as affecting as I did - the ending always hits hard and I like to think of the films complimenting the books and vice versa, in many ways. Regarding Sauron, I kind of like that we never see him in a way, I think it adds to his menace, a kind of painted force that is projected as an existential threat that goes beyond anything our heroes have faced before. I think of him as representative of the end of the world itself, a kind of almost Lovecraftian evil in a way, and less of a manifested threat that can directly interfere with our heroes face to face. I think it was an interesting choice on Tolkien's part to go down this road with him and, paraphrasing, he described Saruman and he this way. "I've never known a Sauron but I've known plenty of Saruman's". Saruman perhaps represents the more "known" evil, the evil of people who deem themselves superior and by in doing so, their curiosity gets the best of them and they become consumed with power itself, a dynamic that runs all the way through the trilogy and through Tolkien's works I would say. I agree in regards to the traveling as portrayed in Fellowship, it really adds to a great sense of how real this world feels and how vividly Tolkien painted it, and for me the sense of the journey really does immerse you as the reader into the world so as to create a sense of connection that will later pay off big time when we get into more serious territory. It also underscores the value of this world and what a loss it would be if Sauron were to destroy it. Frodo and Sam's relationship is really the heart of the books for me, and to have such a pure love of two beings who are committed to each other no matter what makes the ending all the more heartbreaking as well, knowing that they might be reunited in time (as suggested in the appendices), but at the same time knowing Frodo can no longer exist in what he once saved, having in many ways made the ultimate sacrifice. So much more I could say but this was a wonderful discussion and it's always great to see people digging into these books and discovering the treasures therein.
The separation of the characters over lengthy reading periods mimics in an excellent way, the way that those characters would know nothing of what the others were doing or even where they where geographically. I love that structure 🎉🎉🎉. Xxx Claire B.
Yes, I was going to make that exact remark! It adds to the sense of isolation that the fellowship feels from each other, in which they really don’t know how the war is unfolding, even that Gandalf is alive etc. And that structure, though frustrating to modern readers, produces in the reader the same effect.
I have to say I prefer the _Lord of the Rings_ to all the endless superhero movies, and also _Game of Thrones_ . In superhero movies, the world is menaced by villains, we humans are helpless, and the only thing we can do is find someone with super powers to be a vigilante. The underlying message of all superhero movies is _"ordinary people don't matter"_ . While in the LotR the goal is to destroy power. The most humble creatures, the Hobbits, are the ones who can save the world, because they desire power the least. I think this is a message the world needs to hear.
Thank god someone else feels the same as me. Not sure why people love feeling belittled by superhero movies. Such a shame people don’t understand lotr true message its telling.
@@cxo9378 The reason superhero movies are popular is that they are metaphors for the way ordinary people see the world. They see America out of control, run by supervillains (billionaires, liberals) that they can't do anything about, so the only thing they can do is put their faith in a superhero vigilante (a billionaire rebel, Trump) who has no respect for the system and will overturn it.
This deliciously blissfully unaware of what awaits you in the Appendices, The Silmarillion, and the rest of the Middle-Earth legendarium. You are on the start of a narrative journey that will stick with you your entire life.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" is my favorite quote of all time and such powerfull words that I trully believe hide the real meaning of happiness.
I appreciated the plot being halved between Frodo&Sam and the others characters in the books 2 and 3. When Frodo was getting closer and closer to the Mount of Doom, the less and less their friends knew where they were, how they were and if they will succeed. Pippin felt ashamed he didn't think more about Frodo and Sam. But didn't we too? Being busy with other plots? Also, I loved how Tolkien used the environment to let us place the plotlines in time. He hasn't written something like "And now, when Frodo was brought to the tower of orcs, Aragorn enters the Paths of the Dead" but instead, he would write Sam felt the wind had changed and then you knew what was happening in Gondor at the same time. I love Aragorn from the books even more than the most handsome king ever from the films. His humbleness, gentleness and forgiving. His scenes with Boromir and with the young men facing the Black Gate (quotation in my previous comment) make me cry.
Frodo is better developed and has more agency in the books - think of the way he defies the Ringwraiths -- in the films he tends to get turned into Frodo Baggage rather than Frodo Baggins. Good and Evil as absolutes is precisely the point: not that individual people aren't complex mixtures of both, or that it can't be hard to discern which is the right choice to make, but that Good does exist, Evil does exist, and they are more than just sides.
could we please have a part 2 discussion where you go through all of the unanswered questions possibly? because this discussion was so so wonderful I didn't want it to end, I even got emotional near the end listening to you both talk about the ending and I immediately went to watch this video again. And I just would love to keep watching more LOTR thoughts!
LOTR is my favourite fantasy novel, and possibly my favourite work of fiction in general. The book had a massive impact on me and holds a special place in my heart for two reasons. My parents separated when I was young, and one of the few times we spent together as a family was going to see The Fellowship of the Ring in the cinema. Thankfully, my parents got back together the following year. The next year, we went on a two-week camping trip around the UK, and my grandma gifted me an old one volume copy of LOTR for the trip.
I am so happy that you read LOTR together and we got to se this beautiful discussion. You both made my heart and soul full. I had a smile on my face all 37 minutes as you both managed to make us feel what you felt when reading it. And Carolyn, I know that you are self proclaimed hobbit, but in this video you totally look like the most beautiful elf. 😊🧚♀💖
The Silmarillion can be a bit of a slog, In the beginning, it reads like a book on Norse mythology. But after the elves are born, there are a lot of great stories. And if you are interested in the history of characters like Sauron and Galadriel, this is a great book.
A beautiful story about the evil caused in every age by the pursuit of power and the quiet courage and sacrifice necessary to combat that evil. Although the books are far superior to the movies, the movies did improve one incident… it makes so much sense that Frodo is the one to solve the “speak friend, and enter” riddle, rather then Gandalf.
I started to read these books, The Hobbit, The lord of the rings, Silmarillion etc. about fifty years ago and I’m still in love with these books. I reread TLOTR every 3-4 years and still discover new insights. The Silmarillion is a bit more difficult to read but the stories are so satisfying. They provide you with the history of Middle Earth. I can recommend you the Dune series by Frank Herbert.
Morning! morning 🔆! Any discussion of J.R.R. Tolkien or his magnificent work brings a warm smile to my face, every time. It's wild to think he committed to a lifetime of meticulous world building just so he can come home from Oxford and relate swashbuckling bedtime stories to his children. But it is also true he wanted a national mythology for his beloved country, the way the Norse had Odin, and the Greeks had the Iliad. It's funny you should talk about his poetry. Tolkien never felt he was taken seriously as a poet in his own lifetime. You would think someone like Tolkien would be on top of the world for creating LOTR and The Hobbit, but deep down, more than anything else, apparently he sought recognition for poetry. Harper Collins is set to release "The Collected Poems of J.R.R. Tolkien" this month, if I'm not mistaken. This might interest you. As as poet myself, this interests me🧡✌Thanks for sharing Emmie and Carolyn
I don't think the evil _is_ presented as an absolute dichotomy at all! There are lots of shades of grey. You have Boromir and Denethor, "good" guys who nevertheless do "evil" things. There is Gollum/Smeagol. There is Saruman, who switches sides. There are Gandalf and Galadriel, who act "good" but are clearly shown to have the possibility of becoming "evil" if they fell under the influence of the Ring. There are also many characters such as the Southrons and the orcs who in-universe are being treated as evil, but Tolkien signals are just being misled, or threatened, or following orders (e.g. the dead soldier Sam encounters, etc.). Almost nobody acts evil just because they are inherently evil. I guess you could say that of Sauron himself as presented, but even his backstory would lead to an interesting discussion of the nature of evil. IMHO there is a lot of subtlety in the various ways "good" and "evil" are presented in the LotR. You could even include characters like Pippin, who does dumb things with bad consequences, and Tom Bombadil, who despite being entirely "good" would still be a terrible custodian of the Ring and might let horrible consequences happen through inaction.
If you read The Silmarillion, pay close attention to the story about Beren and Luthien. It's probably the most personal story Tolkien wrote in that book (or maybe in any book). He and his wife have a shared tombstone with both their names and an extra name for each. Guess which ones are on there.
Watching you talk about LOTR during my lunch break was thé best part of my day ❤️ thank you for this great video, one of my favorite discussions of yours!
J.R.R. Tolkien is a Prolific Writer. The greatest of all time. Have been reading since i was a young lad. Glad you fell in love with his monumental creativity.
Thank you both for a wonderful video, very nicely edited. I've been looking forward to this discussion so much because I knew it would full of love for this book. And seeing how much other people love something just makes me indescribably happy. Sometimes vicarious happiness is the best kind. Now I have work: I'm off to hang a sign outside that says "No Admittance Except on Party Business."
This conversation is making my heart siiinnngggg!! I'm like Emma, when I first read it, I didn't think too much of it, but when I re-read it earlier this year, I was like WOW what was past me THINKING?! This is the BEST 🙌🏼❤
Thanks to the amazing Emma (love her!), for bringing me to your channel last year, Carolyn. This is such a cosy chat, and Carolyn, you look stunning! Loving the content always 👏💕
This was so heartwarming, ladies. I might have teared up hearing you both explore how beautifully Tolkien's Lord of the Rings affected you. My all time favourite book(s) and also the films. Frodo and the ending with Sam 💔❤ So glad you loved the experience of reading the novels, Carolyn and Emma. Wow such a lovely discussion- my favourite you've done so far. I'm so excited to read Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell soon in the bookclub!
so many people say they find the books boring or difficult to get through because of the pacing or whatever but seeing you guys gush about it definitely makes me wanna pick it up soon-ish.
7:20 I see the journey of Frodo where he is like the most popular person in school (at the beginning) and something devastating happens to them in their life such that their life is degrading, such as a parent dying. And they struggle being the person they were at the start but ultimately they are slowly going down this dark path of isolation. But they have this one friend who knows everything that is going on and he's their best friend ever who is going to see them through to the end. And also a couple of side friends who may not completely understand how their friend feels but love him anyway and do what they can but not as much as Sam is willing to do. And Gandalf is like this mentor or counselor who supports Frodo but from a distance, providing grief support. Frodo goes to see him like once a month for encouragement and counseling from a professional point of view. And the other characters in the fellowship are like cousins who know Frodo had a death in one of his parents so they offer support and check in on Frodo whenever they get a chance. And in the end, after many years of depression and anxiety Sam can never quite get Frodo to give up his grief and sorrow, but then some other pain from life comes and snatches it away such as another person dying or illness or maybe Frodo's own health concerns. Frodo still has that sorrow about his dead parents but life demands attention for something else that looms in his life. Or maybe another parent has died but now Frodo is an adult and it helps him to better understand the first death when he was just a young person without understanding or capacity to withstand the death of a parent. 14:30 As for Gollum. I look at him as though he is someone else who had the same thing happen to him, still going with the parent dying idea. He is a new friend that Frodo finds. Maybe Gandalf has suggested Frodo go to a support group and he meets Gollum there. And Frodo gets really attached to Gollum because of the connection they have with parents dying and Frodo slowly starts to neglect Sam. But Gollum has even more serious problems that Frodo turns a blind eye too but Sam can tell that Gollum isn't a healthy person for Frodo to hang out with. Frodo thinks Sam is jealous since he is so into Gollum. Gollum offers Frodo a bit of reprieve. For a time. And Gollum seems to want to be better but he has done a lot of bad things in his life and the law is after him. Frodo drives Sam away but when Sam goes back to check on Frodo, he finds his friend is entangled in Gollum's mess of a life. Sam is able to get Frodo out of that mess and gets him back on the road to recovery. But Gollum keeps coming around with all his problems now which will plague Frodo to the end. 17:00 Then in the 3rd book with the wars. The wars to me are reminiscent to the fact that all these other characters in Frodo's life still have their own lives to lead. They don't have time or energy to devote to Frodo. It is like in life where you just keep hoping for people to be there with you to help you but in reality they just can't. They also have issues to deal with in their own lives. At the end, Frodo has to come to realize that he can't depend on others to come to his aid. Eventually he needs to deal with his problems alone. Each person must bare their own load. You how it is like when you just sit their and think "I just wish someone could see how I am hurting. Why doesn't anyone come to my aid? Why don't they notice me?" In reality, they probably do notice you but life is a struggle for all and they need to start dealing with their own lives and own families eventually.
20:14 is because Sauron doesn't have a body anymore is just his scense that exist. You can see more of him in the Silmarillion and in the fall of Numenor. Once upon a time he was of the same kind of being like Gandalf and Saruman. (I don't remember if he was a maiar or not) You can read more about Tom Bombadill in his adventures. 😊
This is for me the best discussion you two have had on a book. Or maybe it was the flow of the conversation that I appreciated. It felt better organized. No Tolstoynian rambles that at times stray off-topic (although I will confess to loving Carolynian rambles). Thank you for the video. And a bit off-topic: The color green you wore, makes your eye pop! Take care you two.
This was a great discussion! It was lovely listening to your experiences and now I feel like I need to read the books. I've read The Hobbit twice and I've seen the movies many times, it might be time to read the books as well!
The intro of the video is so positive. It’s so good to see that new readers enjoy the Lord of the Rings this much. Btw. Harper Collins box set edition? That’s how you do it. ☝️👏
Thanks for this discussion! The Lord of the Rings has been my favourite book ever since my mom read it to me when I was a kid. Since you both mentioned enjoying the moments when they talk about being characters in a story, you might be interested to read the epilogue that was originally written for it, but removed by Tolkien before publication - it shows Sam reading the story to his children, and I think it's very charming. It was published (in two different revisions) in The History of Middle-earth volume IX, but can probably be found online somewhere. Also: I cannot recommend The Silmarillion strongly enough.
this upload being late was actually great because I did not want to let go of lotr after I was done reading it and waiting for this video just extended my time of just holding on to it for as long as I could 😭
I'm approaching 60 and am so glad that young women like you have the same reactions to LOTR that I had after my first read through. Most cultural expressions become obsolete, but not the classics. It is young people who separate and rescue gems from garbage and pass them on to the next generation. In Tolkien’s lands where wonders gleam, A new generation starts to dream. Elven light and dwarven lore, They walk the paths their elders swore. From Hobbiton to darkened skies, The magic grips, it never dies. Through every age, the stories bloom, As young hearts find their way through gloom. The old may know, but young still find, The hidden gems he left behind. A world of myth, alive, aglow- Where new and old together grow.
Over these years I’ve watched two young girls who loved to read transform into two master craftspeople in the field of literature. It’s been an honour.
I am glad to see that there are some of the young generation who value books and the great life lessons they teach, something you won't find on Social Media.
hey dear Carolyn and Emma, I enjoyed your musings and answering questions a lot, and I so love that you actually went and read the books after the movies. I had read the books countless times, before the movies came out, and I was very concerned, that the movies could 'damage' my precious middle earth dream world... thanks to Peter, Fran and Philippa (who wrote and developed the movie script together) it didn't happen... some characters even improved, like Pippin & Merry and Aragorn & Arwen, but of course the movies also cut many story lines short or even left them out... Tom Bombadil and Goldberry are without a doubt the greatest loss, but understandable choice for the film makers at the same time... I loved, loved, loved when you mentioned how you often re-read the same page over again, as it was written so beautifully (especially in book 1)... I often couldn't get over a few lines, and just had to stop, and re-read it again and again, until I've tasted it to the bottom of it, and was ready to move on. I often thought, when reading the books the way Tolkien wrote and described places (e.g. Bree with its history and surroundings), that the story even became less important... I loved and still love the characters and places so much... 💖
I like how the hobbits' language changes over the course of the book. In The Shire they're all "gaffer" and "funny" and "fellow", and by the time they get to Gondor they're all "behold!" and "harken" and "forsooth!" and speaking much more regally. Then when they start getting close to the Shire again they revert to their folksy speech patterns. Just genius.
I've always loved LOTR; I used to paint the miniatures when I was younger, and I was obsessed. I love the films, the characters, the songs, the poetry, the video games and just the whole lore in general, yet because I didn't read when I was younger, I have never read the books, but now I know that I absolutely must.
Sam is a champion! One of my favourite parts of the book is when he puts on the ring and desires to be the greatest gardener in the world and cover the world in pumpkins :') Then he realises he doesn't need that, he just needs a little garden for his friends and family and he takes off the ring :;( That's why Gandalf entrusted them with the ring. A beautiful moment. And I loved the battle of Helms Deep :)
@@CarolynMarieReadsIf you guys ever do a reread please listen to the audiobook by Phil Dragash, it has music from the movies and various sound effects to really immerse you.
After my 14th readthrough Pippin became my favorite character, for me it changed with time. Everytime I read LOTR anew I also learn something new and notice new things and have different perspectives. LOTR is like life, as you change and grow older it changes with you. Not reading LOTR is a great loss in someones life that they are not aware of.
"The conversations were my favorite part of the book" Right there with you. When a professor of linguistic studies (who, fun fact, also wrote definitions for the Oxford English Dictionary) who also obsesses over constant revision to constantly approach closer and closer to perfection, you tend to get some deep and meaningful conversations. Even the lighthearted and small talk conversations always added to the characters and setting. Glad to see people reading Tolkien. His works have saved me more than once when the real world was too much for me to take.
Soo Loved This Book Discussion About My Most Favorite Book Of All Time😊📚The Silmarrillion Will Give You More Information About Elves, Dwarves, And Men and How Sauron Came to Deceive Many(😔)😊📚
If I'm not mistaken Carolyn was quoting from the movie, not the book, regarding Gandalf talking about death and the "after life" to Pippin. In the book, the last we hear of our good friend Frodo: "And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise." So, Frodo's final experience in the book was shown to him in a dream early in the story.
The fact that we never saw Sauron is one of the most fascinating parts of the book! We ALWAYS see a villain in a story, it’s what solidifies their evil might. However, the fact that Sauron’s history is so magnanimous to the point where he has grown to such an overwhelming power that he has this infinite army and followers doing his bidding. THATS what makes him terrifying. It’s realistic when it comes to real life villains. They don’t fight their own wars, they slowly weave their web of power so that it’s not a matter of action, it’s a matter of control. This is what’s so unique about this story, you never see the villain but you are overcome STILL with his power. I’ve never seen it done this way. And this is coming from someone who never read or watched lord of the rings. If you truly want to see Sauron, then you gotta read the history.
Dammit missed the post cause the wifi's been down in my new building 😢 I am unbelievably glad you guys loved it so much! It really is one of the most powerful pieces of art of the entire 20th century ❤
Every time I read LOTR, after Sam gets home and says "Well, I'm home," I turn to Appendix B (The Tale of Years) and read about what happens to the remaining members of the Fellowship. Start with 27 March, 3019 (SR 1419) through to the end. The final entry always, always makes me cry: 1541. In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.
Tolkien changed my life back in 1980. My journey started with the poem 'The Hoard' and when on to encompass almost everything published by JRRT and CJRT. For me the hook was the Languages and Names, but I also am English and came from an actual Shire. Yorkshire.
My favorite experience with LOTR was reading it to my two children when they were young. It took nine months, every night as they lay down to sleep. I would stop as their eyes closed and they drifted to sleep. And they would suddenly wake up and object, "Don't stop! We're not asleep." So I would keep reading till they really drifted off--which meant I had to go back several pages as I started the next night. We read with an Oxford exhaustive dictionary by our side. I think they book was intended to be told to children, as Tolkien himself did for his children.
I wrote my senior thesis on it in high school. It occurred to me literally about a week ago that my thesis was wrong, sort of. I had examined the idea that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, but it occurred to me that the characters were more demonstrating the idea that power tempts, absolute power tempts absolutely. Anyway, it's probably my all time favorite. My book reading, classic loving friend won't give it a read because she does not like fantasy, but it is so much more than a fantasy story. If you haven't read the Hobbitt, it is worth a look; I found The Silmarillion harder to get into, but you might find it interesting.
One other thought, I read a Harvard Lampoon parody when I was a senior in high school called Bored of the Rings (my brother and I suspect PJ O'Rourke was involved in writing it, but we're not 100%). Bored of the Rings was really, really funny, making me laugh out loud seeral times as I surreptitiously read it in class.
One of my favorite scenes in the books is just before they go into Shelob's lair and the hobbits are sleeping and Smeagol has a moment where he considers not leading them to her, but then sam wakes up and is rude to him so he goes through with it. It really adds to the tragedy of his overall story!
I agree the most about the ending. The story of the ring is actually a tragedy. The reader returns to the Shire incomplete and barren and the only refuge for Frodo is ultimately in the west but the reader can't go with him, so you're left on the shore feeling just as empty as he does but without remedy. It just cuts you half. Also, you absolutely have to read the appendices. I didn't cry at all until I read Arwen's ending. I won't spoil that but it wrecked me.
I think the issue with Sauron (and indeed Bombadil) is that they are so outside of human experience, they are in many ways unknowable. Bilbo comments that in Rivendell, it's sometimes hard to keep track of time, and the mortal members of the Fellowship experience the same thing in Lothlorien (both places, of course, being under the influence of a powerful immortal with one of the Three to amplify that power).
It is life changing, these vanguards of fantasy, like Tolkien, Eddison and Dunsany, change the reader forever once they are read. One cannot just read one of their books and stay the same.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” - Haldir of Lórien
Having to wait for half of the Two Towers to get back to Frodo's story is tremendously effective in building the tension. Tolkien made a great choice there.
J. R. R. Tolkien is my 8th favorite author and "The Hobbit, or there and back again" is my favorite from the series of "The Silmarillion," "The Hobbit, or there and back again," and "The Lord of the Rings." It comes in at #15 of my favorite books. I read this as a small elementary child.
I love these books, my favourite characters were Aragorn, Legolas, Samwise, Eowyn, Faromir, there are so many wonderful characters. I can't choose my fave seriously.
I wanted to give you props for your Frodo appreciation, but I have to retract that because of the dismissal of Merry and Pippin. 👀 They are such great characters in the book, and I love them a lot more than their movie counterparts. Also, discussing the book without having read the Appendix is a mistake in my eyes, because the Appendix is essential to understanding some of the characters and settings - especially Gondor. It might be helpful to know that Tolkien wanted to publish The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion together because he felt The Lord of the Rings needed the Silmarillion to be fully understood. He postponed publication for a long while, trying to find someone willing to publish both together. Eventually, he had to give up because no publisher was willing to make the commitment, and he was given the option to add the Appendix to mitigate the lack of the Silmarillion.
Tolkien’s writing style is to write every scene from the perspective of the least knowledgeable character. Also, I strongly believe you would both love reading The Silmarillion. It is the history of the world and the Elves before the Lord of the Rings. It’s full of great stories beautifully written. My favorite Tolkien book!
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Please read The Silmarillion. Don’t dare miss it
If you do there will be a few times where you go "OHhhhhhhh..." because a lot of it calls back (forward?) to LOTRs. Like why the elves and dwarves hate each other😁
Right on. It is a bit like the Book of Genesis, with the one difference that unlike the Bible it does not pretend to be real. Mythology rules, always has.
@@musashimiyamoto586 Genesis and the rest of the Bible is not really about history, it's about living wisely, and in such a way that ensures survival of one's tribe.
@@jonnysongs Is it not? So all those people who still believe whatever religion do not harp on about how some supernatural being creating the world, what, 6000 years ago, while that is never the case with the Silmarillion?
So you're telling me the Silmarillion never really happened? Wow, they really had me for a while.
I'm not with you ladies on the battle scenes. Maybe it's just because I'm a guy, but I absolutely love the battle scenes. I don't really care for the action scenes in most fantasy books, especially modern fantasy books, because the authors tend to get overly descriptive and literal in their battle scenes, usually laying out in minute detail everything that happened in the battle, or describing every detail of the choreography of the fight between two characters. It becomes boring and bogged down in too much detail. But Tolkien's battle scenes are told in such a magnificent, poetically rich way, you can't help but feel the grandiosity and the heroism of it all. He has such impeccable artistic and poetic flair in his writings that it brings the battles to life like no other author I have ever read. And there is also a rawness and a realism to the battles that is rare in most fantasy writing, probably due to the fact that Tolkien undoubtedly drew from his very IRL experience of war in World War I. In my opinion, Tolkien is the best writer of battle scenes that there has ever been. Which is probably why he is still the uncontested king of fantasy even all these years later.
I was a bit surprised at that, too. The battle scenes in the book are rare and short. Whereas in the movies they take a _lot_ of screen time--time that would have been better spent on other things, such as more of the orc dialog from the books.
Yeah, i often skip melee combat scenes in newer fantasy literature.. they dont take the story anywhere.. and mostly boring.
I also agree. The descriptions of protracted battle scenes were more reminiscent of books like the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. The LoTR battle scenes were short and therefore more intense.
@@NigelIncubatorJonesbattle scenes in movie adaptations of fantasy books are always focused on. The same with the dune movie adaptations , the battle scenes in the books are described in little detail just that they happened
I’m a woman and usually don’t care about battle scenes but I LOVED the way Tolkien wrote them. They were so immersive and I lowkey was happy that something was happening that’s not a hike lol
Girls, i am so glad to see you got how special LOTR is. I'm 51 years old from latin America. I have read my fair share of fantasy but nothing compares to Tolkien. Read it at least 4 times and plan a few more before i die. I always tell everybody that reading The Hobbit and LOTR is good for the soul. Take care and keep up the good work.
Yes, amazing how it keeps appealing to generation after generation.
If you read the Silmarillion (and I hope you do), here's a little advice:
Read it in small portions. Doing it all in one go is likely to be too much.
Take a break for a minute when you get to something great to digest it. Re-read those parts.
Don't worry too much about names. The most important will be repeated many times. Remember many characters end up with more than one name as time goes on.
Plan on reading it more than once. You will be surprised how much deeper things can get with every read.
Have a map or three handy. Especially a detailed map of Belariand. Refer often while reading.
I found it better to read alongside an audio book.
The Martin Shaw audiobook of The Silmarillion is great. It really feels like getting a history lesson from an elf lord.
Your desire to know more about Sauron’s backstory makes reading the Silmarillion a necessity. Wanting to know more about the world and the characters is one of the great strengths of the story, it speaks volumes about the quality of the world building.
I wrote this before watching the entire video (I know it’s a bad thing to do but I worry about forgetting things, I’m getting old) and wanting to understand the final ending and where Frodo sails off to also makes reading the Silmarillion a necessity.
Some of my favorite passages from the books (forgive the length, this was a very inspiring discussion!):
From "The Fellowship Of The Ring" - Chapter VI: Lothlórien:
"At the hill's foot, Frodo found Aragorn, standing still and silent as a tree; but in his hand was a small golden bloom of elenor, and a light was in his eyes. He was wrapped in some fair memory: and as Frodo looked at him he knew that he beheld things as they once had been in this same place. For the grim years were removed from the face of Aragorn, and he seemed clothed in white, a young lord tall and fair; and he spoke words in the Elvish tongue to one whom Frodo could not see. Arwen vanimelda, namarië! he said, and then he drew a breath, and returning out of his thought he looked at Frodo and smiled.
'Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth,' he said, 'and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that we still must tread, you and I. Come with me!' And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as a living man."
From "The Two Towers" - Chapter VIII: The Stairs Of Cirith Ungol:
"And so Gollum found them hours later, when he returned, crawling and creeping down the path out of the gloom ahead. Sam sat propped against the stone, his head dropping side-ways and his breathing heavy. In his lap lay Frodo's head, drowned deep in sleep; upon his white forehead lay one of Sam's brown hands, and the other lay softly upon his master's breast. Peace was in both their faces.
Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee - but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they had beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing."
From "The Return Of The King" - Chapter VI: Many Partings:
"Here now for seven days they tarried, for the time was at hand for another parting which they were both to make. Soon Celeborn and Galadriel and their folk would turn eastward, and so pass by the Redhorn Gate and down the Dimrill Stair to the Silverlode and to their own country. They had journeyed thus far by the west-ways, for they had much to speak with Elrond and with Gandalf, and here they lingered still in converse with their friends. Often long after the hobbits were wrapped in sleep they would sit together under the stars, recalling the ages that were gone and all their joys and labours in the world, or holding council, concerning the days to come. If any wanderer had chanced to pass, little would he have seen or heard, and it would have seemed to him only that he saw grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands. For they did not move or speak with mouth, looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro."
I'm glad you both found these books as affecting as I did - the ending always hits hard and I like to think of the films complimenting the books and vice versa, in many ways. Regarding Sauron, I kind of like that we never see him in a way, I think it adds to his menace, a kind of painted force that is projected as an existential threat that goes beyond anything our heroes have faced before.
I think of him as representative of the end of the world itself, a kind of almost Lovecraftian evil in a way, and less of a manifested threat that can directly interfere with our heroes face to face. I think it was an interesting choice on Tolkien's part to go down this road with him and, paraphrasing, he described Saruman and he this way. "I've never known a Sauron but I've known plenty of Saruman's". Saruman perhaps represents the more "known" evil, the evil of people who deem themselves superior and by in doing so, their curiosity gets the best of them and they become consumed with power itself, a dynamic that runs all the way through the trilogy and through Tolkien's works I would say.
I agree in regards to the traveling as portrayed in Fellowship, it really adds to a great sense of how real this world feels and how vividly Tolkien painted it, and for me the sense of the journey really does immerse you as the reader into the world so as to create a sense of connection that will later pay off big time when we get into more serious territory. It also underscores the value of this world and what a loss it would be if Sauron were to destroy it.
Frodo and Sam's relationship is really the heart of the books for me, and to have such a pure love of two beings who are committed to each other no matter what makes the ending all the more heartbreaking as well, knowing that they might be reunited in time (as suggested in the appendices), but at the same time knowing Frodo can no longer exist in what he once saved, having in many ways made the ultimate sacrifice.
So much more I could say but this was a wonderful discussion and it's always great to see people digging into these books and discovering the treasures therein.
The separation of the characters over lengthy reading periods mimics in an excellent way, the way that those characters would know nothing of what the others were doing or even where they where geographically. I love that structure 🎉🎉🎉. Xxx Claire B.
Yes, I was going to make that exact remark! It adds to the sense of isolation that the fellowship feels from each other, in which they really don’t know how the war is unfolding, even that Gandalf is alive etc. And that structure, though frustrating to modern readers, produces in the reader the same effect.
I have to say I prefer the _Lord of the Rings_ to all the endless superhero movies, and also _Game of Thrones_ . In superhero movies, the world is menaced by villains, we humans are helpless, and the only thing we can do is find someone with super powers to be a vigilante. The underlying message of all superhero movies is _"ordinary people don't matter"_ . While in the LotR the goal is to destroy power. The most humble creatures, the Hobbits, are the ones who can save the world, because they desire power the least. I think this is a message the world needs to hear.
Thank god someone else feels the same as me. Not sure why people love feeling belittled by superhero movies. Such a shame people don’t understand lotr true message its telling.
@@cxo9378 The reason superhero movies are popular is that they are metaphors for the way ordinary people see the world. They see America out of control, run by supervillains (billionaires, liberals) that they can't do anything about, so the only thing they can do is put their faith in a superhero vigilante (a billionaire rebel, Trump) who has no respect for the system and will overturn it.
This deliciously blissfully unaware of what awaits you in the Appendices, The Silmarillion, and the rest of the Middle-Earth legendarium. You are on the start of a narrative journey that will stick with you your entire life.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" is my favorite quote of all time and such powerfull words that I trully believe hide the real meaning of happiness.
My favorite also! Stop worrying about the past and concentrate on doing your best in the future.
I appreciated the plot being halved between Frodo&Sam and the others characters in the books 2 and 3.
When Frodo was getting closer and closer to the Mount of Doom, the less and less their friends knew where they were, how they were and if they will succeed.
Pippin felt ashamed he didn't think more about Frodo and Sam. But didn't we too? Being busy with other plots?
Also, I loved how Tolkien used the environment to let us place the plotlines in time. He hasn't written something like "And now, when Frodo was brought to the tower of orcs, Aragorn enters the Paths of the Dead" but instead, he would write Sam felt the wind had changed and then you knew what was happening in Gondor at the same time.
I love Aragorn from the books even more than the most handsome king ever from the films. His humbleness, gentleness and forgiving. His scenes with Boromir and with the young men facing the Black Gate (quotation in my previous comment) make me cry.
Frodo is better developed and has more agency in the books - think of the way he defies the Ringwraiths -- in the films he tends to get turned into Frodo Baggage rather than Frodo Baggins.
Good and Evil as absolutes is precisely the point: not that individual people aren't complex mixtures of both, or that it can't be hard to discern which is the right choice to make, but that Good does exist, Evil does exist, and they are more than just sides.
could we please have a part 2 discussion where you go through all of the unanswered questions possibly? because this discussion was so so wonderful I didn't want it to end, I even got emotional near the end listening to you both talk about the ending and I immediately went to watch this video again. And I just would love to keep watching more LOTR thoughts!
Okay yeah catch me crying literal tears when you read the quote about a far green country under a swift sunrise 😭💔❤️
LOTR is my favourite fantasy novel, and possibly my favourite work of fiction in general. The book had a massive impact on me and holds a special place in my heart for two reasons. My parents separated when I was young, and one of the few times we spent together as a family was going to see The Fellowship of the Ring in the cinema. Thankfully, my parents got back together the following year. The next year, we went on a two-week camping trip around the UK, and my grandma gifted me an old one volume copy of LOTR for the trip.
I am so happy that you read LOTR together and we got to se this beautiful discussion. You both made my heart and soul full. I had a smile on my face all 37 minutes as you both managed to make us feel what you felt when reading it. And Carolyn, I know that you are self proclaimed hobbit, but in this video you totally look like the most beautiful elf. 😊🧚♀💖
Now please read The Silmarillion, it's such an awesome book!
The Silmarillion can be a bit of a slog, In the beginning, it reads like a book on Norse mythology. But after the elves are born, there are a lot of great stories. And if you are interested in the history of characters like Sauron and Galadriel, this is a great book.
I would actually recommend the other complete story in this mythos: The Children of Hurin. If you dig that, then try The Silmarillion!
The Akallabeth part of the Silmarillion is the single greatest story I have ever read.
A beautiful story about the evil caused in every age by the pursuit of power and the quiet courage and sacrifice necessary to combat that evil. Although the books are far superior to the movies, the movies did improve one incident… it makes so much sense that Frodo is the one to solve the “speak friend, and enter” riddle, rather then Gandalf.
I started to read these books, The Hobbit, The lord of the rings, Silmarillion etc. about fifty years ago and I’m still in love with these books. I reread TLOTR every 3-4 years and still discover new insights.
The Silmarillion is a bit more difficult to read but the stories are so satisfying. They provide you with the history of Middle Earth.
I can recommend you the Dune series by Frank Herbert.
Just had to say, Emma, the way you described Frodo's suffering and the way he deals with it quietly, but also with grace. Ok now im gonna cry 😭👌 👏
Morning! morning 🔆! Any discussion of J.R.R. Tolkien or his magnificent work brings a warm smile to my face, every time. It's wild to think he committed to a lifetime of meticulous world building just so he can come home from Oxford and relate swashbuckling bedtime stories to his children. But it is also true he wanted a national mythology for his beloved country, the way the Norse had Odin, and the Greeks had the Iliad. It's funny you should talk about his poetry. Tolkien never felt he was taken seriously as a poet in his own lifetime. You would think someone like Tolkien would be on top of the world for creating LOTR and The Hobbit, but deep down, more than anything else, apparently he sought recognition for poetry. Harper Collins is set to release "The Collected Poems of J.R.R. Tolkien" this month, if I'm not mistaken. This might interest you. As as poet myself, this interests me🧡✌Thanks for sharing Emmie and Carolyn
I don't think the evil _is_ presented as an absolute dichotomy at all! There are lots of shades of grey. You have Boromir and Denethor, "good" guys who nevertheless do "evil" things. There is Gollum/Smeagol. There is Saruman, who switches sides. There are Gandalf and Galadriel, who act "good" but are clearly shown to have the possibility of becoming "evil" if they fell under the influence of the Ring.
There are also many characters such as the Southrons and the orcs who in-universe are being treated as evil, but Tolkien signals are just being misled, or threatened, or following orders (e.g. the dead soldier Sam encounters, etc.). Almost nobody acts evil just because they are inherently evil. I guess you could say that of Sauron himself as presented, but even his backstory would lead to an interesting discussion of the nature of evil.
IMHO there is a lot of subtlety in the various ways "good" and "evil" are presented in the LotR. You could even include characters like Pippin, who does dumb things with bad consequences, and Tom Bombadil, who despite being entirely "good" would still be a terrible custodian of the Ring and might let horrible consequences happen through inaction.
I really love the new format of your discussions now. It gives it more of a podcast vibe.❤
If you read The Silmarillion, pay close attention to the story about Beren and Luthien. It's probably the most personal story Tolkien wrote in that book (or maybe in any book). He and his wife have a shared tombstone with both their names and an extra name for each. Guess which ones are on there.
Watching you talk about LOTR during my lunch break was thé best part of my day ❤️ thank you for this great video, one of my favorite discussions of yours!
J.R.R. Tolkien is a Prolific Writer. The greatest of all time. Have been reading since i was a young lad. Glad you fell in love with his monumental creativity.
Thank you both for a wonderful video, very nicely edited. I've been looking forward to this discussion so much because I knew it would full of love for this book. And seeing how much other people love something just makes me indescribably happy. Sometimes vicarious happiness is the best kind. Now I have work: I'm off to hang a sign outside that says "No Admittance Except on Party Business."
I'm going to start the hobbit soon! You just made me more excited!! ❤❤ I'm so happy you loved LOTR. I can't wait to see what you think of the movies!
Yahoo!! Finally, i can watch you two discussing books 📚🤩 "I'm having the time of my life" 🤓🔆
This conversation is making my heart siiinnngggg!! I'm like Emma, when I first read it, I didn't think too much of it, but when I re-read it earlier this year, I was like WOW what was past me THINKING?! This is the BEST 🙌🏼❤
GAVIN! I’m so glad ☺️ Interesting, I wonder what caused that change for you both… maybe just timing? I’m very happy to hear you enjoyed this ✨
Thanks to the amazing Emma (love her!), for bringing me to your channel last year, Carolyn.
This is such a cosy chat, and Carolyn, you look stunning!
Loving the content always 👏💕
Yay, the slowness of the books is the best part.
This was so heartwarming, ladies. I might have teared up hearing you both explore how beautifully Tolkien's Lord of the Rings affected you. My all time favourite book(s) and also the films.
Frodo and the ending with Sam 💔❤
So glad you loved the experience of reading the novels, Carolyn and Emma. Wow such a lovely discussion- my favourite you've done so far. I'm so excited to read Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell soon in the bookclub!
So happy to see both of you enjoy LOTR. Easily my favourite series.
so many people say they find the books boring or difficult to get through because of the pacing or whatever but seeing you guys gush about it definitely makes me wanna pick it up soon-ish.
7:20 I see the journey of Frodo where he is like the most popular person in school (at the beginning) and something devastating happens to them in their life such that their life is degrading, such as a parent dying. And they struggle being the person they were at the start but ultimately they are slowly going down this dark path of isolation. But they have this one friend who knows everything that is going on and he's their best friend ever who is going to see them through to the end. And also a couple of side friends who may not completely understand how their friend feels but love him anyway and do what they can but not as much as Sam is willing to do. And Gandalf is like this mentor or counselor who supports Frodo but from a distance, providing grief support. Frodo goes to see him like once a month for encouragement and counseling from a professional point of view. And the other characters in the fellowship are like cousins who know Frodo had a death in one of his parents so they offer support and check in on Frodo whenever they get a chance. And in the end, after many years of depression and anxiety Sam can never quite get Frodo to give up his grief and sorrow, but then some other pain from life comes and snatches it away such as another person dying or illness or maybe Frodo's own health concerns. Frodo still has that sorrow about his dead parents but life demands attention for something else that looms in his life. Or maybe another parent has died but now Frodo is an adult and it helps him to better understand the first death when he was just a young person without understanding or capacity to withstand the death of a parent.
14:30 As for Gollum. I look at him as though he is someone else who had the same thing happen to him, still going with the parent dying idea. He is a new friend that Frodo finds. Maybe Gandalf has suggested Frodo go to a support group and he meets Gollum there. And Frodo gets really attached to Gollum because of the connection they have with parents dying and Frodo slowly starts to neglect Sam. But Gollum has even more serious problems that Frodo turns a blind eye too but Sam can tell that Gollum isn't a healthy person for Frodo to hang out with. Frodo thinks Sam is jealous since he is so into Gollum. Gollum offers Frodo a bit of reprieve. For a time. And Gollum seems to want to be better but he has done a lot of bad things in his life and the law is after him. Frodo drives Sam away but when Sam goes back to check on Frodo, he finds his friend is entangled in Gollum's mess of a life. Sam is able to get Frodo out of that mess and gets him back on the road to recovery. But Gollum keeps coming around with all his problems now which will plague Frodo to the end.
17:00 Then in the 3rd book with the wars. The wars to me are reminiscent to the fact that all these other characters in Frodo's life still have their own lives to lead. They don't have time or energy to devote to Frodo. It is like in life where you just keep hoping for people to be there with you to help you but in reality they just can't. They also have issues to deal with in their own lives. At the end, Frodo has to come to realize that he can't depend on others to come to his aid. Eventually he needs to deal with his problems alone. Each person must bare their own load. You how it is like when you just sit their and think "I just wish someone could see how I am hurting. Why doesn't anyone come to my aid? Why don't they notice me?" In reality, they probably do notice you but life is a struggle for all and they need to start dealing with their own lives and own families eventually.
20:14 is because Sauron doesn't have a body anymore is just his scense that exist. You can see more of him in the Silmarillion and in the fall of Numenor. Once upon a time he was of the same kind of being like Gandalf and Saruman. (I don't remember if he was a maiar or not)
You can read more about Tom Bombadill in his adventures. 😊
Yes, Sauron was indeed a Maia
off topic but the green blouse is gorgeous on you Carolyn! it really makes your eyes pop 😍
This is for me the best discussion you two have had on a book. Or maybe it was the flow of the conversation that I appreciated. It felt better organized. No Tolstoynian rambles that at times stray off-topic (although I will confess to loving Carolynian rambles). Thank you for the video. And a bit off-topic: The color green you wore, makes your eye pop! Take care you two.
This was a great discussion! It was lovely listening to your experiences and now I feel like I need to read the books. I've read The Hobbit twice and I've seen the movies many times, it might be time to read the books as well!
The intro of the video is so positive. It’s so good to see that new readers enjoy the Lord of the Rings this much. Btw. Harper Collins box set edition? That’s how you do it. ☝️👏
This discussion was awesome. Great video. Strap in for beren and luthien, children of hurin and the fall of gondolin.
This series is one big masterpiece! I love LOTR so much
Thanks for this discussion! The Lord of the Rings has been my favourite book ever since my mom read it to me when I was a kid. Since you both mentioned enjoying the moments when they talk about being characters in a story, you might be interested to read the epilogue that was originally written for it, but removed by Tolkien before publication - it shows Sam reading the story to his children, and I think it's very charming. It was published (in two different revisions) in The History of Middle-earth volume IX, but can probably be found online somewhere.
Also: I cannot recommend The Silmarillion strongly enough.
32:10 when Emma moves out of frame to cry 😂 me too Emma, me too
This whole conversation has brought a smile to my face. I hope you both read the appendices and will read Silmarillion in the future. ❤
this upload being late was actually great because I did not want to let go of lotr after I was done reading it and waiting for this video just extended my time of just holding on to it for as long as I could 😭
🥹
I'm approaching 60 and am so glad that young women like you have the same reactions to LOTR that I had after my first read through.
Most cultural expressions become obsolete, but not the classics. It is young people who separate and rescue gems from garbage and pass them on to the next generation.
In Tolkien’s lands where wonders gleam,
A new generation starts to dream.
Elven light and dwarven lore,
They walk the paths their elders swore.
From Hobbiton to darkened skies,
The magic grips, it never dies.
Through every age, the stories bloom,
As young hearts find their way through gloom.
The old may know, but young still find,
The hidden gems he left behind.
A world of myth, alive, aglow-
Where new and old together grow.
Over these years I’ve watched two young girls who loved to read transform into two master craftspeople in the field of literature.
It’s been an honour.
🥹☺️ thank you for sticking with us!
I agree with both of you on LOTR. I have read them every year for 10 years. Love these books.
I am glad to see that there are some of the young generation who value books and the great life lessons they teach, something you won't find on Social Media.
For more on where Frodo (and the elves) go, read The Silmarillion!
hey dear Carolyn and Emma,
I enjoyed your musings and answering questions a lot, and I so love that you actually went and read the books after the movies. I had read the books countless times, before the movies came out, and I was very concerned, that the movies could 'damage' my precious middle earth dream world... thanks to Peter, Fran and Philippa (who wrote and developed the movie script together) it didn't happen... some characters even improved, like Pippin & Merry and Aragorn & Arwen, but of course the movies also cut many story lines short or even left them out... Tom Bombadil and Goldberry are without a doubt the greatest loss, but understandable choice for the film makers at the same time...
I loved, loved, loved when you mentioned how you often re-read the same page over again, as it was written so beautifully (especially in book 1)... I often couldn't get over a few lines, and just had to stop, and re-read it again and again, until I've tasted it to the bottom of it, and was ready to move on. I often thought, when reading the books the way Tolkien wrote and described places (e.g. Bree with its history and surroundings), that the story even became less important... I loved and still love the characters and places so much... 💖
Yayy! LotR (especially fellowship) is my fav book of all time so I‘m so glad you two liked it🥹
This was a great discussion and makes me want to revisit the series ❤
I like how the hobbits' language changes over the course of the book. In The Shire they're all "gaffer" and "funny" and "fellow", and by the time they get to Gondor they're all "behold!" and "harken" and "forsooth!" and speaking much more regally. Then when they start getting close to the Shire again they revert to their folksy speech patterns. Just genius.
Good point, I'd never noticed that!
💖👍👌🍀💐💖 I love listening to your reading experiences and discussions! 💖👍👌🍀💐💖
I've always loved LOTR; I used to paint the miniatures when I was younger, and I was obsessed. I love the films, the characters, the songs, the poetry, the video games and just the whole lore in general, yet because I didn't read when I was younger, I have never read the books, but now I know that I absolutely must.
This was awesome! Welcome to the world of LOTR!! You've GOT to A Song of Ice and Fire!
Makes me so happy to see two new Bombadil lovers. There is hope in the world.
Thanks to you guys i finally picked this series up -> and added the hobbit right after! Really grateful for it. I really loved the journey.
Not me crying while Carolyn read Gandalf's quote 🥹😭😭
What a fantastic Video🥰😘. I enjoyed every Minute👍😉. Thanks so so much. And of course „The Lord of the Ring“ is one of my favourite Book ever!!!!
Sam is a champion! One of my favourite parts of the book is when he puts on the ring and desires to be the greatest gardener in the world and cover the world in pumpkins :') Then he realises he doesn't need that, he just needs a little garden for his friends and family and he takes off the ring :;( That's why Gandalf entrusted them with the ring. A beautiful moment. And I loved the battle of Helms Deep :)
It changed my life too. Frst read it when I was 16, now I am 59, but it is always with me, and I have reread it many times since.
i am not ready for the 1Q84 discussion lol 😂
Me either 👀😂
No-one is ready 😂
@@CarolynMarieReadsIf you guys ever do a reread please listen to the audiobook by Phil Dragash, it has music from the movies and various sound effects to really immerse you.
After my 14th readthrough Pippin became my favorite character, for me it changed with time. Everytime I read LOTR anew I also learn something new and notice new things and have different perspectives. LOTR is like life, as you change and grow older it changes with you. Not reading LOTR is a great loss in someones life that they are not aware of.
I also wanted Tom Bombadil in the movies and Old Man Willow! I was so sad when I watched the movies after reading and realized they weren’t in them 😢
The 'spirit' of Old Man Willow was actually evoked in the extended version of The Two Towers. I liked that little extra scene a lot.
@@77StG I watched the extended version and I didn’t get that 😕 I’ll have to rewatch with a closer eye!
@@Katt_Dubbs It was transferred into the Fangorn Forest ;)
@@77StG Ohhhh yeah. I see what you mean now ☺️🌳
"The conversations were my favorite part of the book"
Right there with you.
When a professor of linguistic studies (who, fun fact, also wrote definitions for the Oxford English Dictionary) who also obsesses over constant revision to constantly approach closer and closer to perfection, you tend to get some deep and meaningful conversations. Even the lighthearted and small talk conversations always added to the characters and setting.
Glad to see people reading Tolkien. His works have saved me more than once when the real world was too much for me to take.
I hope you add a follow up after you read the appendix. The final page of the appendix is even more moving (imo).
Rereading can be so key! It's wild how you can not care about a book the first time, and then fall in love the second.
Soo Loved This Book Discussion About My Most Favorite Book Of All Time😊📚The Silmarrillion Will Give You More Information About Elves, Dwarves, And Men and How Sauron Came to Deceive Many(😔)😊📚
If I'm not mistaken Carolyn was quoting from the movie, not the book, regarding Gandalf talking about death and the "after life" to Pippin. In the book, the last we hear of our good friend Frodo: "And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise." So, Frodo's final experience in the book was shown to him in a dream early in the story.
The fact that we never saw Sauron is one of the most fascinating parts of the book! We ALWAYS see a villain in a story, it’s what solidifies their evil might. However, the fact that Sauron’s history is so magnanimous to the point where he has grown to such an overwhelming power that he has this infinite army and followers doing his bidding. THATS what makes him terrifying. It’s realistic when it comes to real life villains. They don’t fight their own wars, they slowly weave their web of power so that it’s not a matter of action, it’s a matter of control. This is what’s so unique about this story, you never see the villain but you are overcome STILL with his power. I’ve never seen it done this way. And this is coming from someone who never read or watched lord of the rings.
If you truly want to see Sauron, then you gotta read the history.
Dammit missed the post cause the wifi's been down in my new building 😢 I am unbelievably glad you guys loved it so much! It really is one of the most powerful pieces of art of the entire 20th century ❤
Every time I read LOTR, after Sam gets home and says "Well, I'm home," I turn to Appendix B (The Tale of Years) and read about what happens to the remaining members of the Fellowship. Start with 27 March, 3019 (SR 1419) through to the end. The final entry always, always makes me cry: 1541. In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.
Tolkien changed my life back in 1980. My journey started with the poem 'The Hoard' and when on to encompass almost everything published by JRRT and CJRT.
For me the hook was the Languages and Names, but I also am English and came from an actual Shire. Yorkshire.
My favorite experience with LOTR was reading it to my two children when they were young. It took nine months, every night as they lay down to sleep. I would stop as their eyes closed and they drifted to sleep. And they would suddenly wake up and object, "Don't stop! We're not asleep." So I would keep reading till they really drifted off--which meant I had to go back several pages as I started the next night. We read with an Oxford exhaustive dictionary by our side. I think they book was intended to be told to children, as Tolkien himself did for his children.
Can you post a link to the set that Emma bought for Carolyn? I'm not finding it on Amazon and it's just such a beautiful set! 🥰
I wrote my senior thesis on it in high school. It occurred to me literally about a week ago that my thesis was wrong, sort of. I had examined the idea that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, but it occurred to me that the characters were more demonstrating the idea that power tempts, absolute power tempts absolutely. Anyway, it's probably my all time favorite. My book reading, classic loving friend won't give it a read because she does not like fantasy, but it is so much more than a fantasy story. If you haven't read the Hobbitt, it is worth a look; I found The Silmarillion harder to get into, but you might find it interesting.
One other thought, I read a Harvard Lampoon parody when I was a senior in high school called Bored of the Rings (my brother and I suspect PJ O'Rourke was involved in writing it, but we're not 100%). Bored of the Rings was really, really funny, making me laugh out loud seeral times as I surreptitiously read it in class.
Maybe my favorite was Eowyn on Pelinor Fields: "I am no man!" [pow]
And it is actually also a line from the books - adapted beautifully on screen and performed so well by Miranda Otto!
One of my favorite scenes in the books is just before they go into Shelob's lair and the hobbits are sleeping and Smeagol has a moment where he considers not leading them to her, but then sam wakes up and is rude to him so he goes through with it. It really adds to the tragedy of his overall story!
I am so glad that you have experienced LOTR as the secondary world that Tolkien intended.
We need a review like this of Malazan Book of the Fallen. 👏
Carolyn, please create an author portrait of J.R.R. Tolkien (pretty please?😅)❤
I already did, but I’ll make sure to restock his portrait soon ☺️
Carolyn, you look so gorgeous in your green attire and curls. Like you've come straight from Middle-Earth!
Aw thank you so much! ☺️✨
I agree the most about the ending. The story of the ring is actually a tragedy. The reader returns to the Shire incomplete and barren and the only refuge for Frodo is ultimately in the west but the reader can't go with him, so you're left on the shore feeling just as empty as he does but without remedy. It just cuts you half.
Also, you absolutely have to read the appendices. I didn't cry at all until I read Arwen's ending. I won't spoil that but it wrecked me.
Greatest books of all time.
I think the issue with Sauron (and indeed Bombadil) is that they are so outside of human experience, they are in many ways unknowable. Bilbo comments that in Rivendell, it's sometimes hard to keep track of time, and the mortal members of the Fellowship experience the same thing in Lothlorien (both places, of course, being under the influence of a powerful immortal with one of the Three to amplify that power).
"A far green country under a swift sunrise" is JRRT's imagery of a place after death that he really believed in.
It is life changing, these vanguards of fantasy, like Tolkien, Eddison and Dunsany, change the reader forever once they are read. One cannot just read one of their books and stay the same.
I enjoyed this so much. ☺️
You guys are great!
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” - Haldir of Lórien
Having to wait for half of the Two Towers to get back to Frodo's story is tremendously effective in building the tension. Tolkien made a great choice there.
J. R. R. Tolkien is my 8th favorite author and "The Hobbit, or there and back again" is my favorite from the series of "The Silmarillion," "The Hobbit, or there and back again," and "The Lord of the Rings."
It comes in at #15 of my favorite books. I read this as a small elementary child.
Im glad you liked it. The Lord of The Rings is excellent.
I love these books, my favourite characters were Aragorn, Legolas, Samwise, Eowyn, Faromir, there are so many wonderful characters. I can't choose my fave seriously.
I wanted to give you props for your Frodo appreciation, but I have to retract that because of the dismissal of Merry and Pippin. 👀 They are such great characters in the book, and I love them a lot more than their movie counterparts.
Also, discussing the book without having read the Appendix is a mistake in my eyes, because the Appendix is essential to understanding some of the characters and settings - especially Gondor. It might be helpful to know that Tolkien wanted to publish The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion together because he felt The Lord of the Rings needed the Silmarillion to be fully understood. He postponed publication for a long while, trying to find someone willing to publish both together. Eventually, he had to give up because no publisher was willing to make the commitment, and he was given the option to add the Appendix to mitigate the lack of the Silmarillion.
Tolkien’s writing style is to write every scene from the perspective of the least knowledgeable character.
Also, I strongly believe you would both love reading The Silmarillion. It is the history of the world and the Elves before the Lord of the Rings. It’s full of great stories beautifully written. My favorite Tolkien book!