Milling Machine Motor Removal and Drive Pulley Repair
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- If you have to change out your ENCO or MSC milling machine lower drive pulley and motor spline sleeves, this video will show you the steps and offer a few tips to get the job done quickly and safely. It takes that annoying rattle out !!
![Bridgebort Milling Machine [Rescue]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zGv7MkdIP_w/mqdefault.jpg)
![Bridgebort Milling Machine [Rescue]](/img/tr.png)
Hello Joe, I have since watched a tear down of a Bridgeport and it is very little better. Not only the drive belt but way further in a timing belt both unbelievably complex to get to. Engineers! A belt should be able to be replaced with minimal tools in five to ten minutes. Belts are a consumable and need to be treated as such. A top access plate would have been easy. I am always amazed at such idiocy. The old, " it's out the door looking good what do I care about down the road?" If they had to pay for such maintenance and repair it wouldn't be designed in. It doesn't necessarily cost more to design well but does require thought. That machine is meant to be used in a 'dirty' enviroment-it makes one so it is hardly your fault it fails when used as intended! Thanks again for an informative video. Take care. Doug
I agree. Too many products these days are designed by people that will never use or repair them. Things would be different if they did.
Have you ever had to work on a fairly late model car? Especially an Audi? I am an engineer and I wonder if the engineers who design these things have ever worked on them or anything else! Good engineering requires thought about maintenance.
Joe, you clearly can solve any problem presented to you. Thanks for sharing. Joel
Thanks Joel.
Hi Joe,
I have been a lurker and I'm much impressed by your presentations (and smarter for them too). I just wish this had been available 30 years ago when I bought my mill (Lagun FTV-3) which needed a new motor shortly after moving it to my place. No instructions , just an inquiring mind and senseless courage got the job done. Though it was weeks not days. really liked the threading video! G;-)
Joe - Thank you ever so much. My Grandfather was a machinist. He had a small collection of small(ish) pieces from his trade. I have been reluctant to use them because I never knew what they were. As some of them are 1" thick. They make good weights and small work surfaces. One particularly thin piece was used by my Grandmother for cutting fabric for quilts. Now, I know. They are pieces of one or another "Phenolics". I can be a little less reluctant to find good uses for them. Thank You!!
I see you also answered the question in a previous comment.
Whew! Joe, that was quite a job. Those big springs are nothing to kid around with. I thought it might have been a shaft/pulley problem, but I had no idea that it would be that challenging to fix. Of course things like that are never simple. Good job.
That was one serious spring. It was a good project with immediate benefits. What a difference.
nice video Joe like always keep up the good work we all appreciate it.
You saved somebody a lot of jerk time buy producing this video. I know that a Bridgeport is slightly different but the same general idea applies. I have a Bridgeport and my head is quiet but if I ever come upon one that needs work in that area., I aint gonna be afraid to tackle it. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for the comment. I couldn't find one online, so now we have one.
What a great job Joe. I truly enjoy your videos! I changed my belt on my Bridgeport a few years ago. I have only two words for that project! They are: "NEVER AGAIN". It was truly a monumental job. I applaud you for doing this as a video. Those who do this kind of work certainly earn their money. Keep the videos coming. Ron Lalancette, Feeding Hills, Ma.
Thanks Ron. I have to do the front bushings now. Its tough finding the time and window to have a machine offline. I'll get there eventually.
Joe, I don't have any experience with this type of mill but a question kept popping up while watching the video. Does the head swivel through 180 degrees? If so turn it upside down, place the motor on some packing on the table and then you're not constantly fighting gravity.
If the head doesn't swivel forget what I said.
Otherwise a very educational video.
Thanks Joe, Merry Christmas (2020) to you and yours. Hopefully we'll be out of this covid19 nonsense soon.
Ron W
Canada
My two hour jobs normally turn into two day jobs unless they take longer. The boss lady always gives me that skeptical look when I say how long it will take. But glad to see another Texan win one.
Joe, I love your videos. I always learn something. Love fixing up old machines.
Hey Joe, as I was watching I was thinking of ways to help you if I was there. As a retired auto tech for over 20+ years you learn how to do s%$# on the fly. Wished I could of helped ya, but you got thru with some good thinking and a little old fashion ingenuity . Great job Joe. God Bless Ya Dave
Thanks. The end result was success, and the video didn't embarrass me. Thats a win.
Wow! you did a great job there Joe. That is a bit of a rude introduction for you to CVT systems :) I like the way you improvised. The friend who sold me my mill told me that stepped pulley mills are a fair bit quieter than CVT units, I still like the convenience and flexibility of that kind of mill. Props to you for getting that job done !
Thanks my father left me a mill an a lathe and the tools . I appreciate the video
lucky ducky! no videos yet?...get crackin'! 😂
I've had to do this to two mills in the shop. On the second mill, I tapped two holes on the hub between the spring and spline and two clearance holes on the washer that holds the spring down. Two screws are need to compress the spring, and thereby open the gap (for the belt) between the disks. It made the installation of the belt much easier and future repairs should also be more simple.
Bridgeport usually has those holes already in their pulley setup. Other foreign made machines seemed to think it wouldn't be necessary. I'll go with the holes any day. Good Modification.
Thanks, that was helpful. I'm trying to repair our '92 enco at our high school here in Austin. The upper rear pulley cracked. A new one is on the way. The last time I took it apart, I made a spring compressor that I used with the motor mounted. It was just a couple nuts and bolts that pressed up from the ram. Assembling the pulley with the motor outside the housing looks easier.
This repair wasn't bad. I have to do the front soon. Which Austin High School has these??
Had a similar setup on a different machine. The wedge will work if you wrap a large rubber band around it. Thanks for another great video!
Or to be safe wrap it with tie wire and the cut the wire when you are ready,,,
I have to remove the motor on my Acra mill. This vid is great. Now not as daunting as it initially appeared to be. Thanks so much.
Great vid. Joe iv'e repaired a ton of those doggone variable speed pulleys, usually just use a couple of small pry bars to open the spring loaded sheaves.
This machine had so little room to work in and that little block was a great idea.
I have to tackle the front soon.
You look much younger in this video. Good job!
Thanks. Must be the new camera.
Wow, an infinitely variable speed drive would be nice, but this process sure makes me appreciate the simple six step pulley system on my little Millrite.
Add a VFD. and you will come to hate Reeves VS drives as much as I do.
Well done Joe i enjoyed the experience with you keep up the great videos.I think ill stick with my old Bridgeport JB2R with speed control via Inverter Cheers Roger.
This has been a very good machine. I would not hesitate to buy another one. Bridgeport is certainly better.
Ever thought about LinkBelt? Used one on a small H-mill that damn near required complete dissassembly to replace the belt. Might be a bit easier. They claim reduced vibration which is a little plus.
If those are the segmented belts, I have seen them used on machines where the belt is captive. Like many old lathes. This is a piece of cake now. I know all the obstacles and could repeat this entire procedure pretty quick if I had to.
I am leery of the strength and durability of the link belt vs a solid one. While they have their advantages, I think they are better used in situation where you can not get the right size or you change pullys frequently. The reduced surface area and breaks in the segmenting both have to effect tensile strength, grip strength and friction with pulley. In this situation, I definitely would go with a solid drive belt for the better power transmisson and also so I would not have to replace it as soon. Not sure how easy fishing a segmented belt in there and joining it is going to be without moving the motor anyways.
Plus solid belts are cheaper.
I can't imagine what it would take to replace the belt if needed. Is the bolt hole in the shaft for the spring retainer a blind hole or a through hole? You got my gears turning on this one.
You wore me out. Had bridgeports for years and never had this problem but if I do I will take it nice and slow. Charles Boston
Joe, Just got off the phone with MSC - most helpful!! Now we're trying to determine what exact mill I have (no model number of build date). JD believes it is a Nantong (China) machine and there are very few parts still available. It may remain noisy....
Turns out it's a '94 MSC Valuemaster (Nantong) which uses individual spline inserts instead of the 4 circular pieces. Takes 24 of them - and MSC doesn't have a one left - totally discontinued. The circular ones are discontinued too. Lovely!
I may take a look at the ones I have in stock. Though I need them here, it may be easy to reproduce. Keep in touch.
@@joepie221 MSC said they applied to a manufacturer of them and it was far too expensive. This machine uses separate segments for the splines - there are 24 all total.
@@b1lc1s Correct. as shown at 10:25 12 per pulley.
Joe quit worrying about haters ! The videos are awesome and u can un-loosesen any d@*# thing u want lol !
I kept thinking you really needed a gantry. Good job. Very little access for a belt change much less a pulley.
That motor was very heavy and had to come up about 6 inches to clear the housing. An overhead would have been helpful.
Joe, catching up on older videos. Excellent walkthrough of the pulley saga. You overcame a lot to bring it home. Nothing broke and it works - savor the victory.
_Dan_
On a Bridge Port the tapped holes in the pulley spring retaining plate make the job a lot easier. After you had the Hex Head Cap Screw off place a piece of threaded rod with a couple of heavy washers That way you could take the c clamps off and just run the nut up that way the spring expansion can be controlled. More important the spring can be collapsed safely. Too bad you couldn't just go with a VFD
Bridgeport does have the better design.
i wonder.. if the front pulley is cranked tight does it open the rear pulley so you could wedge a collar in before loosening the motor bolts.. if so.. can you measure and post the OD of the six fluted sleeve and the thickness of the yoke you cut.. might make it crazy easy for the next guy.. might make it easy enough to make you think about pulling the spindle bearings.. might also look at drilling an angled hole in the Yoke so it could be inserted thru the vent windows with a piece of welding rod between the motor pulley...
also... did you happen to measure the metric bolt in the end of the motor... all thread might be used if the C clip exists on other peoples machines.. so the pulley could be held down with U shaped device over the all thread.. while the clip is removed .. then the nut backed off to release the spring tension... probably the reason there was a clip there.. allow bolt removal and exchange for all thread..
I like, that what you saw, got you to think. Actually, if the front pulleys are together, the rear pulleys are apart. Its like big and small sprockets for speed vs torque. The only drawback with that is that in the end, you want those front pulleys wide open so the belt can shift towards the rear. You also want the rear pyulleys open so you can get the belt on. Normally, they are never open at the same time. Thats where the vari-speed comes from. The all thread idea is solid, if the c-clip is there. My motor spline adapter appeared to be upside down from the factory, but the manual didn't even show a clip being used. If I did this for a living, you can bet I'd have a box of cool tools I made specifically to get this done quickly. I see it as a piece of cake now. Thanks for the comment.
Sounds like you got a little winded at a couple spots there, Joe. :) They say hard work is good for the soul. Maybe so.
Thanks again for another teaching vid. The last time I worked "ON" (not with) a Bridgeport type was to make guards for the open head. Was an old one.
Sure made your machine quieter. I heard it in other vids, and it sounded like a coffee grinder!
"Unloosen" means tighten. "Unthaw" means to freeze something. LOL
You know that stuff. Just ribbing ya!
Ecclesiastics 9:10: "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do thy doggondest." Or, something like that. Good job!
I love to say unloosen. I will have a hard time stopping. I sometimes say it just to light you guys up. I have to do the front bushing now. The back is so quiet, the front is very noticeable.
What the heck. Say it how you like, Joe, and we can have something to pick at sometimes. :)
I'm in the manual machining end of the trade for many years, and enjoy your videos. Never too old to learn a new trick once in a while, and I like your way of doing things. I like it when I see you do something and think to myself, "yep, that's the way I do it, too". Even better are the times when I think, "Hey, that's a better way than I do it". Thumbs up.
How long do those bushings last compared to the life of a belt. It might be worthwhile doing both at once when you need a new belt in 30 years, LOL.
You should be able to get more slack on the belt by turning the speed control to the max which would make the spindle pulley smaller by spreading the pulley halves . as you mentioned at the end of the video. Perhaps you could fabricate a spring compressor for the motor pulley and compress the spring before removing the motor. Surely it is designed to have the belt replaced without pulling the motor - remember the bolt holes on the Bridgeport?
I have seen mounts for mounting the entire head on three studs - perhaps a shipping frame. If you have an engine crane to pull the head and an engine stand you could make a mounting bracket and have good freedom of motion to work. If you were going to O/H the head it would be worthwhile, but likely a toss up for the minor work you did.
Did you install a 'C' clip where your information said there should have been one?
My information was very generic and not backed up by the manual I ultimately found to order parts. There was no room for a C clip on this setup in the area where I did the repair..
Joe I'm looking at an enco mill locally to me they want right much for it three thousand bucks. its a variable drive like yours. not sure the model number. smaller than your machine i'm sure. does MSC still provide support and parts for these? in your opinion should i steer clear of it? he also has a enco lathe as well and wants to sell the two machines to me for six thousand. the mill looks hardly used. has DRO and power feed in one direction. your thoughts are much appreciated.
If the mill is barely used, 3K sounds reasonable. Offer 5 for both and see if they wiggle. Listen to the motor and see if its quiet.
@@joepie221 thanks Joe I called the dealer and they said the lathe model came back that parts are not available. not sure on the mill just yet. I didnt have the model number but based on the color and description they believe parts are available for it. the guy wanted 7500.00 for both and came down to 6 thousand for both machines and a 3-phase rotary convertor.
when the wife came out the first time i could see the look in her eyes was doubtful i lol so hard thanks
That wasn't my wife, but she really gave me the stink eye didn't she. Remind me to fire her next week. Note to self....Admin Lauren....Gone.
joe i like this side of you! gave me yet another chuckle , thanks. lauren needs a raise or at least a doughnut and coffee tomorrow ,cos i could see your mouth going and your hands gesturing (flipping out a bit i been there on the edge lol) she helped, you mulled it over and had to re, re, re-think it but in the end you got it. cheers and thanks again for sharing
I am trying to put a old king rich vertical/horizontal mill back in service, mfr will not help me ,say it's too old mfr 1980,but it's a beefy machine.Any help out there ?
Spindle lock needs attention.
Errr!!!!! Video and repair 😊
what a fun job oh boy:)
Filthy job. Great results.
would it be that hard to fabricate the bushings from brass plate / shim stock
Probably not, but I am not sure they would slide like the plastic ones.
Why were the plastic bushings there in the first place? There's plenty of steel-on-steel splined shafts, so we know it works.
I know that you know that hand-held is not a crowd pleaser, but I gotta tell you, I was about ready for the Dramamine.
Sorry about the hand held segments. GoPro doesn't offer stabilization yet, and sometimes its just not practical for tripod work. I like the plastic, but I think they should have been much thicker.
Don't get me wrong - I very much appreciate your videos (I'm working my way through all of them, in order). I have learned a lot from your explanations and your voice is that of professional experience. The comment about the hand held was intended to be helpful feedback.
I'm still curious about the function of the plastic.
Bob Engelhardt I would say that the plastic allows that movable face to slide freely on the shaft, helps dampen some noise and prevent metal to metal contact.
So the huge rattle you had is finally gone, sounded way more like a normal mill now.
Finally.
Nothing wrong with unloosen, you just use it in the wrong place. Once you got the belt on you unloosened every but bolt and screw as you reassembled (undismantled? 😀) the rest of the Mill.
For me, the sequence is ---------- unloosen it, then tighten it back up.
How'd you keep your shirt so clean? I would have come out of there looking like a coal miner.
Tilt motor , apply belt. Simples
You wouldn't happen to have any more of those plastic inserts yo showed in the video?
Yep. 12. Reserved for the front pulley. I got them from MSC machine tool division.
Part # 86950979 for my mill. I just confirmed with MSC they are discontinued.
@@joepie221 Grizzly has them... 9903793 pack of 25.
@@b1lc1s not anymore! do you have more?
Joe...do you know of any sources still handling parts for these China-made Enco mills? I have one with the spline of the motor pulley completely wasted....cant find a replacement pulley anywhere
MSC machine tool division now owns them. You can get replacement parts there.
@@joepie221 MSC has discontinued the Enco line, and im told that the chinese Enco parts are especially difficult to find...any other sources?
@@brianohmer1982 I just got off the phone with them. if your machine is extremely old, you may have a problem, but they still support and carry replacement parts for the ENCO line. Call and have your model, serial and part #'s ready for an accurate answer. I have no other source at this time. Be sure to ask for the machine tool division.
@@joepie221 thanks Joe...i was able to remove the spline sleeve from the motor shaft, and the motor shaft measures .940" which is 24mm, with a 6mm keyway...so im gonna go out on a limb here, and assert that even if worse comes to worse, i should be able to find some other variable speed pulley that would work on that motor shaft.
Plan B----VFD. We HAD 3-machines with Reeves drives on them. - They are now all VFD. Even did it to The Cinci Toolmaster mill and it has step pulleys. LOVE it. It No more fiddling with changing belts....Power tapping with it was never so easy either. I can go from 1200 Rpm down to 30 in less the 1 second. Just a spin of the knob. I got the decel set for reversing at 1/4 second. Spot drill, tap drill, speed change, Tap and reverse a 3/8-16 in under 30 seconds. It would take a good 2 or 3 minutes before I changed to the VFD.
Bet it would cost less to put a VFD on the machine then the cost of the VS shieves.
Nice job we’ve all started projects like this that ended up Taking more time and effort than we thought and by yourself makes it even more difficult ..... congratulations and thank you for your videos
yes ii have had a bit of that as we get old a job that use to tack 30 minis maw tacks me two days & some times longed, yes I feel for you That job would taken me a month to do But I would had got it done , if the job it took 3 month , yester day my hands shook just bold up a lifting beam , you gale looked worried . But in the end I said it. sod it a went & had some tea. & I still haven't got, back to it But tomorrow I will , try again , it a burger when everting aces & you hands don't stop shaking putting a half inch nut on , "LOL" . By gum it souks to get old ,
well done Any way I now . I relies why my dad always smiled wen I trend up . He always fond me something to do in the shop, Often Heavy , Buy gum now I get him.. Never give up & never gin in. Yes I enjoyed the the film. well done . "les England". Once up on a time I would flog up 6" nuts with a 28 pound slug . Buy gum Now it a struggle to put on a half inch nut , yes I get it really do . LES. . back in the day it was nothing to lift a six cylinder start engine block , in & out of a engine compartment. Yes Its a burger getting old , & I mean that in a good way.
Stay young in your mind and I believe your body will listen. And get one of those grand children to do the heavy lifting. A benefit of getting old.
Hey Joe,
you did it. I. always told my students that what seperates a fair mechanic from a great. one is tenacity ie stubbornness. you have it. A little OCD helps too. You da man!!
Rod
Obstacles are just that. Go around them, under or over them, but don't let them be walls. One step at a time anything can be conquered. Thanks for the comment.
Really nice job Joe! I was wondering how you would get the belt back on. That's a good idea using wire to constrict the belt around the other pulley to give you more play on the side you need. Just can't imagine why anyone except for an engineer would come up with a design like that.(not even eye bolt bosses in the motor?) Do they expect you to go through that same procedure just to change a belt? WOW!
Changing the belt would be even worse. I'd have to tear down the front of the machine as well.
Helped a friend replace his belt on a Bridgeport a few years ago....not a task one person would like to do alone. I dread the day my Bridgeport needs a belt. She sat out doors in Florida for 8 years and got wet many times....pully is not very smooth so I worry about belt wear... I also have that noise you had with yours....good ideas present here....thanks... PB
Watch those fingers.
I think someone else was in there before you. It looked like there was a groove for a clip, but no clip present. I think you said the upper washer was relieved under the washer. If the clip was there, the disassembly method could have been 1. Open the access port under the motor. 2. Remove the bolt. The clip holds the spring seat. 3. Use a nut, threaded rod and u shaped adapter to compress the spring. 4. Remove the C clip. 5. Run the nut down the rod, relieving the tension on the spring and remove the spring through the access port. Reverse to reassemble. Or I could be completely wrong.
It did look like a clip could have been applied there, but I also noted the spline adapter looked like it was upside down. There was a counterbore on the adapter, but it was facing up and not towards the cap. Even if I had a c clip, I would have had totake that adapter off and reverse it. It didn't want to move, I tried. I am the first owner of this machine, so it has to be a factory issue. No big deal. It lasted for 12 years the first time.
Nice work Joe!
ATB, Robin
Thanks Robin.
Last year I had to replace the variable speed belt on my Jet mill. Since I have a forklift, I removed more of the entire assembly making it easier to work on, down on the floor. Still not an easy trick! I had never seen one apart so it was another case of doing but not knowing how. They sure don't give you any extra room.
Thats the truth. the front needs to be done now.
Hey Joe, love your machining vids! But this maintenance job is hard to watch. I'm a retired maintenance tech and have worked on many different variable ratio drives (Vari-drive, Lewellen, PIV and others) . It looks to me as if the casing has a split line and it may be that this entire upper half is intended to be removed and repaired as a unit. These things are ALL real buggers to renew. My experience has been that the spring-loaded end is usually the WORST part to wear, and you can get a lot of use by repairing just that obvious wear. HOWEVER, the pains undertaken THIS time will have to be revisited some time in the future, UNLESS you dis-assemble the entire unit. Often the belt has hardened and worn (in width mostly) which if not replaced can induce pre-mature failure of your new plastic "sleeves", or break in two, since you have been stressing it while wrestling it. Also, the driven end sheaves will have some wear that should at least be inspected/cleaned and lubed and may have plastics as well. Plus many times the adjuster assembly (which must overcome the spring forces when moving the driven pulley sheaves) will need some attention too! Man, I hate to see you go through this much effort and not come away with a fully re-built unit which SHOULD last for decades. Knowing these things as I do, I wish you the best of luck.
It's hard to believe that they are using a similar "technology" as modern vehicle CVT transmissions!!
Extend ram, rotate head 180 degrees, raise table/knee to touch motor, remove bolts, lower knee. Motor is out. Reverse to install.
Plus the little matter of getting the belt off.
I like that and gravity keeps things from falling into the bull gears. Also no step ladder.... sounds good in theory
Right you are! But at least you wouldn't be up on a step stool just waiting for the motor to slip off the blocks and take off your fingers. With the motor already supported on the table you can concentrate more on getting the belt off without the motor falling. Just another way to skin that cat. You got the job done though. That's what counts. Good job on the diagnosis too!
I persuaded the guys at work to rebuild the Bridgeport before it got REALLY expensive. They had struggled to get the motor off and were struggling to get it back on.
They came back from lunch to find I'd refitted it on my own. They still don't know how.
I thought it was easy having removed and refitted the whole head single handed.
If the machine designer gave you a built in jack, USE IT!
Way to go Joe! You didn't mention you have a hand in the shop. Are you teaching her G codes?
That was Lauren. My part time admin and good friend of the family. She took a break from her paperwork and came out to visit. I'll let her husband handle the 'G' code task. She's good people, but really gave me the stink eye while she was there. I am sure she was just thinking and not judging.
Great video, Joe. Always like to see the whole nine yards in one episode. However, when you armed that bear trap, then stuck it in that dark dirty cave, then FIDDLED AROUND INSIDE WITH YOUR FINGERS, I was not a happy camper! Glad everything 'came out OK'.
I've seen spline couplers and adapters that, unless running in an oil bath, were made of bronze. I think the Chinese might not want to part with their copper, and use plastics as a substitute. Just a thought.
For sure your concerns were valid. That vari-drive setup was a bear trap waiting to happen. The plastic collar I stuck in there went sufficiently beyond center that I was confident it wasn't going anywhere until I pulled the string. Regardless, I kept my fingers out of the pinch point anyway. Sorry I made ya cringe. I was actually more concerned about the motor slipping off my riser blocks and smashing my fingers. Thats why I decided to tap them and bolt them to the motor. That would have been ugly! I appreciate the concern and comment.
@@joepie221 I just found this. A thought, if you took off the small screws holding the fan cover on the motor it would have given your hand much more torque and control. And I damned sure would have drilled a couple of holes thru the bottom cover and thru the lower pulley for jack screws. Joe
Hi Joe,
Had to repair mine 5 - 6 years ago, reminded me a few frustrations... lol
Wasn't remembering the process until you mentioned the 2 bolts to open up the space between the plates... On my machine, I got the simple key and cylindrical bushing. Now I'll have to get the reducer repaired since it's vibrating and making some noises...
So much a relief to operate a machine that is purring like a kitty cat...
Cheers, Pierre
I will finally be able to hear my music. AHHHH
So 9 Enco sales reps gave this a thumbs down?
That was the repair men that did that. They are out of a job.
I enjoyed witnessing your persistent and ingenious solution to the problem task. Thanks for your upload...
that was a hell of a job joe, you think they go though all that shit at the factory during assembly?? you got'er done though !!
They probably do it so fast it would scare you. I am sure they have jigs they don't advertise.
Times like those Joe, I am glad for my 1974 step-pulley LAGUN. Great job . I just rebuilt the head on mine and is quiet as a church mouse. Luckly the spindle bearing were still in great shape. Keep up the great videos man.
Wow, a lot of trouble cause someone didn't drill and tap 4 holes. After watching you I don't think I'd take one of those mills if someone gave it to me. :) Glad my supermax ripped off the bridgeport design a little closer.
I would have given this one to you after having to pull that motor off the second time right on the spot. It was a learning experience and actually not all that bad. Sounds like you may have dealt with a belt or pulley issue on your mill ??
Yeah... when I first bought it the drive belt and brake were toast. I actually ended up rebuilding/reconditioning the entire machine , including spindle. Like you say, good learning experience. :) BTW I detect an eastern OH / Western PA accent... am I close?
Northern NJ, 39 years. Born in Maryland. Moved to Texas in 1997
Joe, what’s the model number of your Enco Mill, I have the same exact machine but cannot locate any model number markings? I need to order some replacement parts from ENCO/MCS, any help would be greatly appreciated. -JG
I'll check. Keep commenting if I take too long.
great video joe .....like all of your videos very well done love watching your videos
At one point in the video. I was fully expecting you to take the parts to a friends shop, put the retainer and lower pulley on the mill to drill and tap for some caging bolts.
I have a CNC I could use, but those features would be good to add. BP has them.
Hey Joe, big fan of your channel. I am learning quite a bit on machining from your videos. If you ever need to get that motor out again, get yourself some spring compressors like these: www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFM0/W80556/N2403.oap?ck=Search_N2403_-1_-1&pt=N2403&ppt=C2370 or make yourself something similar. You can squeeze the spring from the underside access hole, remove the spring retaining bolt, slide the spring off the bottom, and then the 2 part pulley should slide apart as you lift the motor out the top. You could probably get it out and back in in just a couple hours.
In those spring release situations, I regularly use a couple quick methods to increase safety and reduce hands and knees time searching for parts...... I work on antique and modern internal gear bicycle transmissions and every one has some no longer available part that wants to rocket out across the room and under a bench upon disassembly. In some applications, I have a section of steel cable with eyelets on the ends about 3-4 feet long. If it is possible, I will bolt it onto the end with the threaded hole and then bolt/screw the other end of the cable to something stable as a containment safety wire. For smaller applications, dowels in holes and rubber tubing over axle ends both work good. Another method is to hang a wrench on the axle end or inserted dowel by the box end while i am taking it off. They just hit the wrench and stay on the axle. If you have a dowel in the hole, and a wrench on it, the spring will just push the wrench up the dowel. Use a heavy wrench (or three) and it will dissipate the spring pressure and contain it.
You can use a long threaded rod and a fender washer or something as a containment stop as well. In this method, the nut can be used to gradually release the spring, however you want to watch close that the nut is turning and not the rod......If the rod unscrews you just made a bench mounted speargun.......
I do recognize the threaded rod idea is problematic with this application due to metric.
I also recognize that part of the enjoyment of it all is the times you can just let er rip.....
Enjoyed the bed and repair...
I tried to reduce noise when I had the rockwell 21-100. It turns out the noise started in the motor and was transmitted in the housing. I had been blocking off noise escape holes, but it turns out a pair of narrow little spacers [1/8"Allen wrenches] between the motor and the housing reduced the vibration coupling and made the mill 20 db quieter. This left a gap, the opposite of what I had been trying to do.
Interesting thought. I could see how that could happen.
Great job, Joe. Lunch is an underappreciated part of serious troubleshooting. Loved the video!
that's a pain in the ass
Hi Joe, I am one of your recent subscribers. You have some of the best Machining Videos that I have seen. I have been a licensed machinist since 1990, so been at it for a few years now, and still learning. I have done this repair on my own milling machine, twice in fact. The reason I had to do it a second time is as follows. At some point I stalled the mill, and when this happens, the front pulley stops turning but the rear (motor) pulley keeps going. What this does is it wears a groove or flat area in the drive belt. When the machine runs after this mishap there is increased and decreased tension on the vari-discs and this causes the bores of the pulleys to wear, they become bell mouthed. This happens to both front and rear pulleys. I found this information on a machinist forum. You have to think of the front vari-disc, the drive belt, and the rear vari-disc as one unit, or assembly, and they must be replaced as such, otherwise the whole shit storm will be happening again. When I did the first repair I kept the same drive belt. About one year later I was taking it apart again, so far it's staying quiet. Just wanted to pass this info to you as you have passed so much useful information to me and all of your subscribers. Love these videos that you make and really hope you keep them coming. Thank you.
Thanks for the info. I know I have to get back in there. The front pulley is making some noise, but nothing like that back one did. I'll give the belt a good look at that time. It would be money well spent to replace it while I'm in the neighborhood.
32:19 bee ute iful!
Well Done, And Done WELL.
Oh what a great job well done Joe! Loved the speeded up shots ! We in the UK have a saying "Running around like a Blue Arsed Fly" and you going hell for leather around that machine certainly fulfilled the saying !! Do you now wish you had a Bridgeport mill instead of this one?
I killed these bushings by having a buffer along side this machine. I now have a dedicated abrasive area and this should never happen again.
We have a pair of "Saber" 3vm mills that look nearly identical, but with some better mechanisms. It uses a spring clip to holt the lower washer (not a bolt on the end of the motor shaft) & that washer has holes to allow bolts to pass through and compress the spring.
The process on our machine is a lot safer and understanding it may make the job easier on other machines, so I'll describe it.
***quick but important caution and disclaimer: The spring on the motor/drive pulley has a very strong spring. It has a lot of stored potential energy that wants to go somewhere- that could potentially be:
*sending a heavy metal object through your roof
*obliterating your hand, face, etc
*kill you or someone else all the way across a shop
Think of this as **a high power spring launching system**, like a gun that you know for sure is loaded.
There are ways to safely work on this, which includes knowing how to safely unload the spring. (gun analogy works well here).
*I'm not saying you need some mystical power to work on this. I think most machinists are capable of this, but I repair machines for a living, and this a part where I stop - wake up and think clearly about what I am about to do and what the reaction will be - before proceeding cautiously with lots of attention.
*I'm not some safety nazi. I grew up working on commercial fishing vessels in Alaska. I am very used to working around exposed and actively spinning drive shafts in a slick engine room while the boat bounces around. -so please hear me when I say be careful and consider if you have the necessary understanding, tools, and attention span to do this without an oops! moment.
Quick overview:
1. remove cover plates
2. unplug machine and dismount the for/rev power switch (so you don't fight cord length on the motor)
3. compress spring/relieve drive pulley
4. relieve front/driven pulley
& shove the belt toward the rear
5.unbolt motor and push toward front of machine and/or shim the front to tilt it
6. use a screwdriver to start the belt slipping down/off
7. with helper or other way to move motor, slowly raise and tilt motor, pushing belt off with screwdrivers
-(if changing the belt)-
8. undo the bracket/upper bearing/top support plate where the drawbar drops in.
9. remove the 2 bolts holding that tension/rocker plate to the upper pulley
10. unbolt the upper housing and lift it off
-(motor drive pully disassembly)-
11. Remove the keeper spring and use a stepping method to slowly relieve the spring.
12. discover that all your plastic parts are shot/disintegrated and your keyway is wallowed out on both the shaft and pulley sides...
-(reassembly)-
13. = reverse of disassembly, but you may want to put the belt and motor on the upper assembly 1st and then swing it all over and on, depending on your machine (not how I do it on ours)
longer description:
1. The nameplate above the variable speed cover is most likely hiding an access hole. (I wouldn't have known, except the rivet rotted out and the nameplate fell off. Now it has tapped holes.)
2. You may have a shorter or longer cord, but ours wouldn't allow the motor to be set on the table without either disconnecting the wires or (much easier) just undoing the 2 bolts that hold the power switch onto the side of the machine. If you don't unplug the machine, that switch would have live/hot wires that you would be reaching past, so just unplug the machine and make sure it no longer has power.
3. On our machines the lower washer (below the spring) has 2 holes, allowing you to put in 6mm bolts and compress the spring (giving you gap to get the belt on/off).
*Tip get a bunch of lengths, as you will see later.
*Also, if your washer's holes don't line up with the threaded holes above them, get a scrap bar of metal, measure & drill spaced holes for 6mm bolts (I used alu and tapped it so the bolts are held nicely), and preferably a clearance hole for the shaft stickout. put a strapwrench on the part of the spindle that sticks out the bottom (spinning part). use the custom tool to rotate the washer to align properly. (I used a jerking motion fighting against the strapwrench)
4. Set the variable speed setting all the way to fast rpm (= most relieved in front). Shove the belt all the way toward the back of the machine.
*Under the brand tag (saber, enco, etc) is likely a hidden access port. (used for coupling/uncoupling the variable speed hand adjuster from the rocker/tension plate aka "speed change plate")
*tip: after changing speed, from slightly above, reach in the sides and squeeze/ lift the pulley up, then holding it up with 1 hand, use the other to shove the belt rearward all the way until it touches the shaft. Kinda pinch the belt a little to give max relief at the backend.
5 & 6. watch your fingers! The belt shouldn't take force to remove, but it is catch and stiff, so you'll end up having to work it off.
*inserting a bar/screwdriver to keep the motor tilted may be safer than trusting your hands to a small block that wants to fall out as the motor is jostled...I wish I'd done that the 1st time, when I had a block fall out and smashed my finger (just hurt, but nothing serious)
7. With a person on each side of the machine, on solid stools/step ladders, the motor is easy to move. As 1 person trying to do it yourself, it is 80lbs and the belt is your workout coach to ensure your arms start shaking.
8. Pull out the drawbar, and remove the 3 bolts holding the upper cover in place. Because it has the upper shaft support bearing, you will probably need to use pair of screwdrivers to pry it up before it wants to pop off.
*you are changing all those support bearings, right? (leave the rattles for the nursery)
9. The 2 bolts holding the rocker/"speed adjust plate" are slightly under the opening, so a ballnoze allen wrench works well. Note that they have standoff washers that may try to drop off them, so make sure you get both the bolt and the washer.
*You shouldn't need to remove the 3rd bolt on the back of the rocker (the bolt with the jamnut). I would leave it alone, so you don't have to figure out its adjustment again.
10. should be 6 large bolts sticking up into from the underside. Tends to catch on the pulley in the front, so give it a little bump to the front and it should lift right off.
-(motor/drive pulley)-
11. With the 2 bolts compressing the spring enough, take the spring clip off. Slowly back the bolts out, but watch your thread length! I recommend backing them out unevenly to ensure you always have 1 bolt with plenty of threads still in. Use a 3rd bolt from the side to compare lengths. When you get near the end of 1 bolt, stop unthreading the other, so it will keep the tension. Remove 1 and swap it to a longer bolt. Tighten that longer bolt to relieve the shorter bolt and slowly remove that bolt and replace it with a longer... Repeat that stepping process until you have the spring relieved enough that you can lightly press the washer down by hand and remove the bolts. Now you can safely slide everything off the shaft.
***Do not slide everything off the shaft until you have relieved the spring! that shaft is keeping you safe by keeping things from shifting sideways and also would direct flying parts if something went wrong.
12. don't replace halfway. If parts are loose/wallowed, you need to fix that or they will destroy your brand new parts. Don't forget to replace the bearings.
-(reassembly)-
13. Putting the motor/drive pulley assembly together is the reverse of taking it apart. Put it together on the shaft (again for control and containment/safety) not out in the air. When the washer is getting close to touching the shaft, go slow with the tightening. It may go right on, or it may not want to. You may have to slide it off a tiny bit, get it compressed a bit more, then try to wiggle & slide it on. You can try putting something round like a pipe in the middle and align it that way, or even use some channel locks on the outer edges of the washer to twist/pull it where it needs to go - again this is based on the safer mechanism with the holes in the washer.
*I do NOT recommend trying to twist wiggle etc a non-captive setup, (like the setup used in this video)
ENCO conveniently omitted the features that would allow for spring compression or lower pulley removal as you have suggested. Bridgeport pulley setups are a perfect example of the setup ideal for your suggested approach. No room exists around the pulley for any type of compression device on this machine while the motor is in place. Though I appreciate your input, it does not apply to an ENCO mill.
@@joepie221 Sure, but you could probably add the holes to the washer, as it looked like the tapped holes exist in the pully portion.
For the first time removal, it might be easier to take the whole top plate, motor and belt off together as one, then worry about getting the belt off the motor.
I wish I found this post when I had to do my Robootool. This is exactly how I did mine. I did not have a Vari cover on mine when I got it so I could see better how to approach it. I popped the name plate off and hot glued it back on later. My spring is not that long as Enco and much stiffer I believe. I had to get into the brake and put springs and modify the shoes were too wide and bound the spindle. I got the Mill cheap and now it's a fine machine.
I hope there is room to modify the Enco with holes and bolts the next time you have to remove the motor.
Just bought the inserts from Grizzly but called MSC and they don't have any more pulleys. Hopefully mine is not too worn to use or I will need to come up with a plan B. Awesome video and great help though!
Good luck. Once the bushings go, the pulley takes a hard hit. Somebody's got them some where.
would you happen to have a part number ?
Please whoever sources these, provide a part number for those who come after you. I need to replace mine as well.
nice video . good to see another guy how is not afraid to get his hands dirty . can you do a video on shaping and using a fly cutter ? also how do i know if my tail stock is in line with the chuck ?
I always learn so much from your video's.
Great video! Thanks Joe!
Thanks for watching.
Joe love your videos, but you did that the hard way. I cannot post links here but there is a really good video of this exact thing sans the plastic shim replacement.
I've unfortunately had to do this several times and it's never been a joy.
H&W Machine rebuilding has a bunch of videos on rebuilding heads and other things on their TH-cam channel. Look them up.
Will do.
Good repair.
I've been through any number of similar jobs through the years... When finished with such projects, if practical, I like to assemble together any special tooling fabricated, and stash it away for future use... I also make notes in the individual machines (4X6" spiral bound) log. Said tooling & log entries have proven invaluable on numerous occasions through the years. Just my .02¢ worth, cool videos, Thanks!
Plastic shoe boxes work very well for this and stack easily. I already have the jigs I used stashed away. Good Tip.
Curious. What year is your mill? I have, what appears to be, the same Enco VS model I bought new back in 1986. It gets very light use in my hobby shop, but now you have me sorta worried! haha.....
I took delivery of this machine new in 2005. It sat close to some buffers in my early shop, so this is my fault 100%.
Man, what a pain that was. Good job. I was wondering if the splines should be greased. But then again it doesn't see much movement.
It really was. I did it with a ruptured right ear drum. The plastic should be fine. i don't think grease in that area would end well.
Hello Joe, I guess American engineers are not the only incompetent idiots! Good God that is how you change a serviceable item like a belt? Amazing, just amazing. If engineers had to spend six months every couple of years working on the crap they design this just wouldn't occur. I would never buy an Enco machine on the used market having seen this. Thanks for a good video. Take care. Doug
This was just to change the pulley. You have to go even deeper to actually get the belt to come off. I like my ENCO mill. It has served me well for many years. This damage is entirely my fault. The machine sat right next to a scotch brite buffer for a few years and was routinely dusted with buffer by product. I am sure that is what tore up these bushings. My shop was very very small.
You are right, Bridgeport variable speed units are much easier to deal with...and that defective pulley casting would never been allowed out the door of the Bridgeport factory. I think ENCO is Chinese for "defective casting but it ought to work".
I was shocked to see that as well. The void is in a non critical area, so I chose to use it.
Hold compressed spring with several heavy duty zip ties
Thats a good idea. Cutting them out may have been tricky.
Hi Joe, why didn't you change the motor bearings and belt while you had it apart? When were the spindle bearings changed last? I know it's a PITA, but you were almost there already, then you would be set for another 20 years!
They have never been changed. My anxiety level for having a machine down had maxed out and I really needed it back online. The motor bearings were solid. I did check them. The front pulleys had some wiggle, but still have some life.
Every time you grab low range now, you're gonna say. "That's so much better now, I like that!". That's not a waste of time in my eyes, that's an enhancement to every moment you use the mill. :) Nice job!
Thanks, the reduced noise is going to be great.
WOW..... that was a LOT of grief for you. I wonder why they just did not copy the Bridgeport vari-drive assembly? Nice video Joe.
Companies don't like being sued for patent infringement. They have to make changes in the designs to avoid this. Sometimes the changes do not make it better.
@@chuckevans7917 Chinese don't care about patents or quality control
The Daf car in europe had Variomatic Transmission with 2 Belts and Pulleys like your machine. You had to put wedges in those to keep the pulleys apart, while you put on new belts. Real bitch of a job and you had to mind your fingers on those too.
No Kidding. That spring would bite ya and just laugh. The collar worked very well.
Lovely to see your success through intelligence & making what you need to keep that mouse trap spring safe. It is such a marvel of our times that I can sit over 5,000 miles distant, tired after a long day on the floor welding my car and be inspired by such heroic effort to get back out to my job in the morning.
Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment.
I wish i would have known this. I repaired mine and machines a brass "plastic piece". It worked great if only the motor didnt release its smoke after 10 minutes running time. Ended up buying and rebuilding a bridgeport head and using the enco base. So mad at the chinese motor I scrapped the whole head
I had no idea what to expect. It cost a few bucks in parts, but ended well.
I wish you would have produced this about 3 years ago. I had to pull the motor on a Mighty Comet mill. No fun. I mostly did it by man handling it and a lot of blue smoke. Good job Joe
I probably should have done this 3 years ago. I could have just man handled the motor off, but I was worried about the return trip.
Oh, the joy of machine maintenance. Makes you wonder what special tooling the manufacturers had to design to shoe-horn these things together in the first place. Great to see Mrs. P. helping out too.
That was a good friend of the family, Lauren. She comes in and helps out with the paperwork from time to time and was very interested in what I was doing. She wanted to help, but I didn't want her fingers under that motor or near those loaded pulleys.
My apologies then (to both you and Mrs.P.) I know what it's like in those situations - you wish for a third hand yourself, but the other one offered has it's own brain behind it (and not always under your control).
that was a real pain in the ass. you have exceptional patience joe. very creative problem solving. i just did a belt and bearing replacement on a sharp mill , it had the bridgeport style setup. it was not an easy job,, but its was a piece of cake compared to what your went thru.thanks for sharing.
I like a good challenge when I am in a good frame of mind for it. Every time I hit a wall I saw as an opportunity to get creative. It worked out well in the end, and now there is an online video for ENCO mill repair.
When I took my Delta apart I ran into a similar problem. while it did have the two holes in the washer with a screw in the center, no clip, the washer had turned and the holes did not line up, aside from the face they were metric and I did not have a clue what size. I solved the problem in a similar way but used wood. I took two 3/4 " pieces of plywood put one under the motor, in other words sat the motor on it, the other over the top of the pulley.
The top one had a central hole plus two holes all three in line and then threaded rods through both pieces of plywood to take the strain from the spring. It worked really well like yours. I still have to put the motor back on the mill but you have given me ideas. Thanks, great video.
They say to use a drift punch and hammer to spin the cap until the holes line up. Then use the threaded rod and jack screws. Easy from there.