Awkward #4 | Blame the Learner
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- I often challenge my pupils by taking them to difficult situations, and this was no exception. There is a lot of good learning points to this clip and it also shows how people blame the learner driver without hesitation.
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Wouldn't relish using that road every day! I would personally have reversed behind the Transit, partly on the dropped kerb so that the Toyota could get out, then waited for Mr Bus to come past, then crept out to try again if nothing else was oncoming.
Would you expect the Learner Driver to do that also?
Mr Minibus needs a lesson in looking far. However, a guy like that has probably been driving for years, I reckon he believes he's an amazing driver and incapable of a mistake, with no need to consider learning from any situation he finds himself in.
I'd like to see that video at full speed without pausing, but I'm pretty sure he should have been the one avoiding that problem before it became one.
@@ashley_neal Up to a point I am inclined to agree with Itchy Scratch.
Here is my take on the situation:-
Taking into account where the Range Rover was parked, that was a hazard for sure and may have impeded the Toyata somewhat, particularly being able to see if the road was clear to exit the junction.
I would've been inclined to pass the junction sufficiently to enable the Toyota to exit; at this point, bearing in mind that the Minibus was clearly going to be an issue, be prepared to reverse to a position (just behind the blue Transit) to allow a safe pass - a lesser risk of being hit as the road is wider/less obstructions.
What is not shown in the upload - we don't know if there was a vehicle up your rear bumper, so to speak, which obviously would reduce your options considerably.
I also take into consideration that a Learner doesn't have the experience of a 30+ years time served veteran, therefore allowances must be made.
In hindsight - would you have done anything differently? This, again, is taking into consideration that your pupil cannot learn from a situation unless they experience it.
Great thread and a very interesting scenario portrayed yet again.
Stay safe everyone 👍👍.
@@ashley_neal Hello I am learning to drive and I would like to ask what about letting the toyota pass and reversing in to the one way junction if it is safe?
I think the mini bus driver should have known there was an obsruction just because the toyota wasn't leaving the junction, if he knows the road well he's probably used that junction where the toyota was to wait before, i wouldn't have proceeded unless i had an escape route.
And what the heck was that on top of the silver transit, blimey i have seen some things but that overhang takes the biscuit.
Edit:
You could have gone forward, let the toyota out then reverse directly back not necessarily behind the blue van, so the minibus could go into the junction.
Knowing my luck 5 cars would have followed that mini bus.
Are most suburban roads like this in the UK? people parking on the left and right effectively making a two-lane road into a one-lane road? I would go mad driving there!
Yeah this happens a lot, the roads weren't designed for cars in most places.
Yeah with the way these areas were built none of them normally have driveways or a garage for a car and when they were built there was no way they would’ve known that households would’ve been able to afford 2 or 3 cars per household.
Watching further on in the video I can see a lot of these houses do actually have driveways but where I’m from, Glasgow, a lot of new towns don’t.
Mint758
All Suburban? No not so much.
Smaller residential roads? Sometimes I guess. These are only normally used by those that live there though, not through traffic.
This is an especially troublesome spot, with lots of tightly packed housing, with shops with limited parking areas.
So this slight curve is a pinch point. Pretty rare to find one as annoying as that.
I might happen upon something like that once a year......
@@DontPanicDear Alright, good to know!
I'd be sweating if i left my car parked on that street.
All these sitiuations occur, because the roads are too narrow for two-way traffic. Make them one-way, just like in other countries
Yep. I didn't mention it, because someone else did it already. UK road infrastructure needs a great update. Physically seperated cycle lanes are badly needed too. Everywhere. Less road rage and traffic would be a lot safer for everyone
@@emamotorbiker UK is a shithole now. Too crowded and awful roads
That's how you end up with another Swindon. There needs to be more thought and planning put into this. Since fore-thought wasn't a thing when the houses were built, designated parking spots and traffic management needs to be implemented. This doesn't appear to be a one-trick-fix to me.
That would be the best solution
Minibus was visible at 0:39 looking through the gap to the left of the parked van. Waiting behind the van makes you blind to anyone following the bus, but waiting there would allow the Toyota to go, leaving space to share when you creep out again.
Where you met the bus, he had been able to see you for some distance, yet did not use all the space to his left. If he'd moved left earlier, to give a straighter approach, he would have had more space past you, with less delay.
There's a skills heirarchy with bus drivers, municipal minibus drivers are near the bottom, along with school bus drivers.
What also infuriates me is people who have driveways & choose to park on a narrow road risking damage to they cars & causing obstructions.
Chris T
I know a load of residents like this in a nearby town to me!
It’s a very narrow to start with, so already an issue!
They all have drives, but nobody uses them. They park in the road, spread out often across their own driveways.
If they do park in their own drives, other public come and park in the street, with no thought for how the residents might get in / out.
So as there are no parking restrictions, the only way to come and go as they need to, is to park their own street.
Madness but 100% necessary if they want to maintain freedom of movement.
@@DontPanicDear As I said it is going to be a huge problem for some people who don't have drives because there is physically no room for one but when the Government brings in this no parking on the pavements well it's going to be a chaotic nightmare for some people with no legitimate answers.
I have been on roads where it’s so narrow, we can almost touch each other
I've had a run in with this same group while in my delivery van. Imagine the same situation as this one here, only I had plenty of space to park in behind to let the bus pass, which I did after reversing a little, but they insisted on complicating the situation by reversing themselves, while screaming, shouting and throwing up gang signs, of course, causing a massive queue to form behind them as they shimmied just the back of the bus in to a side street, blocking pretty much everything. The entire time I'm just sat in my space trying to get their attention to let them, and now the stream of traffic behind them, through, but they didn't once look forward and were totally fixated on completing their unnecessary maneuver. Once 'parked' and blocking two roads with absolutely no room for me to get through did they finally look up and notice that I wasn't in their way any more, and hadn't been for quite some time, and came through while shaking their head at me... for giving way to them!!! 🤣
Great video, wish I'd done a few more awkward situations with my instructor learning to drive. Great to see your pupil weigh up the best ways of resolving it. Those buses aren't safe to reverse in residential areas, knowing that he should drive as such.
One thing I remember my instructor telling me is to put the parking brake on so there is no mistake.
In regards to blaming the learner people should remember that they were learners once and give the student the benefit of doubt. I was driving a double decker bus once down a main country lane (in the UK) going around some bends. the bends are sharp and either the front or back of the bus would be in the trees if I tried to stay wholly on my side. As I'm going around a right hand bend a learner comes at me and we hit. The instructor starts having a go at me for being on the wrong side of the road and I tell him that unfortunately due to the size of the bus there was no chance of me staying completely on my side. Not once did I blame the student for the situation and actually made sure that they were ok.
its good to take learners into this kind of situations.
better for them to experience them with a instructor than alone.
Weird watching this and seeing my house 😅😅 yeah this street is a nightmare
If it was me I proberly would of taken the right hand turn, I wish my driving instructor did more awkward situations with me. Its horrible when you come across situations like this and your on your own, the best thing to do is stay calm and take your time. I love watching your videos , even though I passed in 2012 they have helped me with my driving, especially with thinking ahead of a situation
Two possibiliies since it seems there was nothing behind you:
1. Reverse into the space behind the blue van. This should give enough space for the Toyota to clear and the bus to get through.
2. Go forward just enough to let the Toyota clear, then reverse back a little and let the bus use the junction to pass.
Edit: I see you have already replied to comments about reversing. A third, more drastic option might have been just turn right past the Toyota, turn around and come at it again. Drastic, but just to avoid getting into a jam.
I came across something on my first driving test that I had not encountered on any of my lessons and it really threw me (a tractor doing 20mph at rush hour on a busy dual carriageway). I ended up being stuck behind it with no reasonable expectation of getting out without having a better set of tools and experience to deal with this situation. So giving a pupil some more challenging situations seems really good to me.
Honestly I partially blame that on how parking is done on many UK streets. In my country there is a rule that after parking you must've left 1,5 meter for pedestrians on a sidewalk and at least 3 meters for one way road or 3+3 meters for both sides of the road if it's two way road (with acceptable minimum 5 meters when necessary and/or if marked parking spaces would keep less than 6m).
I also sometimes feel like some streets are way too narrow to support on street parking in UK. But I guess that's because I'm used to something else.
Well where else would you have them park then? On the roof?
@@AverageAlien no. Make the damn roads wider. You literally have people parking half the car on the sidewalk!
My instructor had so little care about his car he actually made me to drive his car into a shallow ditch just to know the feeling. He then got his car out and we carried on practicing. He made me to do things like speeding, burnouts, whatevers but always in a safe and controlled way. Just so i can experience them safely before i get overconfident when i get my licence. That experience i had back than was a game changer when i got my own car.
I would of let the mini bus past 1st and not worry about the Toyota
Good points well made...
Renault showing what to do...
But without the benifit of hindsight what would we have all done ? 🤔.
(Just an after thought, the high driving position of the minibus driver....) better view.
Came to S.A. 40 plus years ago. Was amazed then that you had to park facing the way you travel. Within days this became an obvious benefit. On narrow roads only one side can be used for parking. Most roads are wider than the U.K. and in these 2 way traffic is still possible with vehicles parked on both sides. Parked vehicles seem to be a major headache in the U.K.
Absolutely spot on Ashley. Well done. Its all about PATIENCE
Great example of common problem in Liverpool. Today developers are still building estates with the similar narrow access roads. Am amazed how you were both able to scrape past each other - congratulations.
They almost literally scraped past - Ashley would have had half the bus's logo on his Bima!
Not happy with this one Ashley 🤨
This is one of those situations where both drivers were engaged in the narrow space and had to deal with it.
The minibus didn’t wait, as there was no oncoming traffic as he entered. Ditto you/your pupil.
The minibus was driving below 20mph, slowing further as the blockage became obvious. He could see a good distance to the Toyota/junction, so would never have slowed to walking pace. He could stop in the distance he could see to be clear.
Your pupil was at walking pace (almost stopped in error before the Toyota / junction) which is unrealistic in normal driving. If anyone else was driving, they would have been over 10/15mph min.
Reference to the Toyota was nearly all mistaken 😕
It matters not if the Toyota has to wait for the situation to unfold. You are established on the ‘main’ carriageway and owe them nothing. (Obviously courtesy if appropriate)
If you need to stop to allow another vehicle to pass, Toyota has ZERO bearing on that decision, other than normal observations.
They WAIT until the main carriageway is clear, THEN emerge.
Their progress is not your responsibility in any way shape or form.
Under normal driving conditions, you would have met the minibus a car length further in, as neither of you could see until it was too late.
Given that I’d want to be on my way asap, I’d have just stopped, reversed back one car length to the near side space I’d just passed.
There is more room to manoeuvre there and I see no reason to engage in a ‘squeeze past’ type situation in this instance.
I don’t want to put myself at the mercy of another drivers judgement at such close quarters.
The minibus driver did display poor attitude, but that’s life isn’t it 😕
That driver might have had similar experiences with several L plated drivers that week/day/hour already and we’re all only human.
If learners are taken to these areas by you, then I’d bet other schools use the area too.
There are a few roads in Sutton, that are beset with learners from dawn to dusk seven days a week.
Revving engines, slipping clutches, stopped mid junction, driving at 10mph etc. EVERYONE in the area gets their first few lessons there and it causes trouble. I have the luxury of being able to avoid that area, but not everyone does.
Tricky approach here though I grant you. That Transit is blocking your view and that’s just bad luck / positioning, being adjacent to the junction.
The lad seems to have a pretty calm temperament anyway, so good for him and I hope he’s doing well 😀
"I’d have just stopped, reversed back one car length to the near side space I’d just passed. "
But would you expect a learner to do this?
Philip Yates
Under the supervision of Ashley, in a dual control car? Yes I think it was practical.
But hey, there was actually room to fit past anyway, so no real drama.
I guess a more experienced driver could still get caught out here, but would have done a better job, of immediately tucking in really tightly to the nearside.
@@DontPanicDear Perhaps that's true, it is certainly a debate to be had. I think it is one of those where the real world event is a lot trickier than hindsight.
Don't Panic! I think you’re right in many ways. Personally I would have either waited at the junction mouth or backed up to the earlier space. If there really wasn’t enough space to pass then there was always the option to actually turn right where the Toyota was coming from, just to break the deadlock. It’s easy to pass judgement when you’re watching it all unfold in the comfort of your armchair though - being there at the time you’re under pressure to weigh up all the options quickly, and make the right decision.
Absolutely. I've just commented about the scenario as well. Genuinely baffled how anyone can think the minibus driver is at fault here. There was plenty of room of the left between the Transit and Corsa to move the car out of the way (as you say, under the supervision of the instructor) yet for some reason it seems acceptable to continue to roll forward towards the oncoming minibus and expect the driver to 'deal with this'. This is the exact attitude Ashley talks about in a lot of his videos, yet there was no real effort made to make the situation easier or safer by the driving instructor. Unreal.
Yet another bully/selfish/narcissist on the road.
"I'm going to cause more issues for everyone else, because all I care about is me"
Bless him, his mind was still in that situation that happened before. Stopping and chatting was good. I like these videos im from the uk but currently live and am learning to drive in Germany. Boy I wish I was back home sometimes lol (uk i mean)
I would have just turned right in to the junction and found another way. But then again I have severe social anxiety and the thought of getting in to the situation in the video fills me with dread!
I think I would of had the pupil take that right turn ha.... Interesting clip though!
yeah i would of had taken that right turn as well
Not an option on the test to change route.
Would have
@@Fireglo why not? As long as you drive safely and progressively you can't be marked down and the examiner will adjust the directions accordingly
@@emardis8982 that's not how the test works. You have to follow the examiner's directions. If the examiner says to go straight on and you turn right then you fail the test.
The only other option I can think of was to go forward, let that car turning right come out and then reverse to let the bus by, but this would only be okay if there are no cars behind you. But then again if there are cars behind that coach this would not work!! Or as a last resort go off course and turn right yourself and turn around to come back 😂
A very helpful video for learners as this will happen a lot once they're out on the roads.
No , he's wrong . This is pathetic advice
Was stressful enough to watch! My worry is that the minibus driver just won't learn anything from this because he wrongly believes the blame entirely lies with someone else. In instances like this where someone is driving for an organisation (especially larger vehicle) they need to be called out on it.
I agree with identifying the worst offenders to their employers. Some organisations do take this seriously but in the absence of video evidence I suspect most will just, perhaps not without reason, take it as one person's word against another and leave it at that. For some time I've wondered if all these dash cam clips that show an identifiable company vehicle being driven dangerously or aggressively should not be compiled as a gallery of offenders. It amazes me in this age of the dashcam/CCTV that people still drive like yobs in plainly identifiable company vehicles.
The mini bus driver didn't even do anything wrong lol.
@@TheIceMurder2 Yea I've got to agree (even though I'm a learner myself), from the mini bus driver's perspective the road seems clear and the parked cars are obstructing the learner's side. It seems like it's maybe one of his first lessons so they're driving SUPER slow. If they made more progress the situation would've ended up easier, but in the end it was just unlucky for both drivers tbh.
@@TheIceMurder2 grow up
It seems to me that everyone has missed a point here ... the side of the road the mini bus is on is clear, where as the side of the road the learner car is on is blocked by the various parked cars. As such the mini-bus has priority. I agree that the mini bus driver should be anticipating cars on 'his' side of the road, but at the point he could see the learner car he was committed, where as the learner car wasn't, especially due to the low speed.
The Music Hub what should the learner have done?
Actually no one has a right of way here.
Music Hub, there's an important part about priority that you seem to miss. Who gives it and who takes it? If there's an articulated lorry on your side of the road, you can't just continue on regardless claiming you have priority. Priority has to be given and taken appropriately.
With your attitude, I hope I never encounter you on the road
And that's the mentality that causes the problem in the first place, hence the minibus driver going straight past a potential passing place and costing themselves a much longer wait overall. Priority isn't dictated by which side the obstruction is on either - you can't just plough head-on into someone that is passing a long row of parked cars
That is all irrelevant once a vehicle is committed. If you arrive and a car is already on the "wrong" side of the road because it's passing parked cars then you wait. To claim the other vehicle has to reverse is a complete nonsense and there is absolutely nothing in the Highway Code which says otherwise. Basically you use common sense. If you arrive in sight of each other, then you give way to the vehicle that doesn't have to cross over the centre line, or you drop into a gap in the line of parked cars if there is one. Neither applied here.
There is also no such thing as "right of way" in the Highway Code. Indeed, this is what the government's website says on the matter.
"The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others."
Luckily I've done a few awkward situations like this as a learner, including a lesson the other day during after school pickup time and early rush hour, in the rain. A lot of that lesson involved patience and forward planning.
I feel more confident of passing my test next week
It's usually Chelsea Tractors doing things like that here in the South East. But on the plus side you soon discover how useful the handbrake is. ☺
and the middle finger !! universal language for "reverse you prick " in Suffolk
I'd probably try to reverse in behind that van to the left. (But I'd also be tempted to get out the car, walk home, and let you deal with it 😂)
You could have moved forward to let the toyota past then reversed into the space right next to you, to the left, behind the blue van.
once the toyota was out, reversed back a bit and let the go around, parking behind the van would make it hard to see if any think else is coming
As the video states and shows, there was no space to do this.
Assuming no one came up behind him.
Ben Mitchell
With the Toyota gone, there would have been loads of space.
There was also a nearside space one car length back to use.
A little give and take is all that’s required. Flexibility is more important than blame, or perceived priority, which all drivers seem to presume they have at all times.
@@kennethcroll6972 fair enough
Professional drivers...he probably drives that route every day and probably has a similar situation every day - he should be going much slower and thinking. The ultimate cause is the illegally parked blue transit though isn’t it?
Yes, he should just park his minibus all day anticipating a car would come his opposite way. Better still, stay in the depot so you don't inconvenience learner drivers and poor instructors
Difficult road situation. In Birmingham some of the most egregious examples of this type of layout are now one way roads. The only thing I might have done differently is move forward to let the waiting side road vehicle go, then carefully reverse back if possible to allow the van to go around via the junction.
Sorry but I think you are wrong there, you should have stayed across from the junction on the right, the car waiting to emerge from a give way has no priority... allow the mini bus to pass and then you could carry on and the car on the give could then go 👍 ( fellow driving instructor )
This really drives me mad the way some drivers treat learners they were once
You were unfortunately wrong here, pulling up behind the transit wouldve been the safest and easiest option in this situation
I love my instructor lol, get a tricky road and don't do it quite right? have to do it again lol. I love driving and I am about 10 hours off my test. I totally get it about learners and how we are treated by other road users though! I got the bird from a cyclist on one of my lessons despite seeing him in more than plenty of time and giving him enough room for a tank! I have overcome Autism to do this as well, good luck to all the learners here, you CAN do it! see you on the roads very soon! x
Just some observations - the camera picks up the minibus roofline before reaching the parked blue Transit. The same blue Transit should not be parked opposite the junction, the Range Rover is also too close to the junction (as shown by the double yellows). The minibus side of the road is unimpeded by any vehicles. The minibus may not be allowed to reverse.
Just a suggestion, perhaps you could have gone forward just to let the Toyota go through and then reverse back so the minibus can get through and be on your way. Or simply reversed back on to that dropped kerb and waited for both toyota and minibus to get through.
The problem is the pavement parking, there isn't space for 2 way traffic and parking on both sides. There's barely enough room for a wheelchair on the pavement. Some cars like the blue corsa at 4:45 have parked as far as they can onto the pavement to avoid the passing problem but to the detriment of pedestrians. Also children and blind/partially sighted are at risk of being knocked over when these vehicles mount the pavement to park. The whole thing stinks, residents have gotten use to having their pride & joy parked at their front door. The council should remove the pavement parking & only allow one lane of parking at most, if it's still not wide enough then it should be made one way.
A lot of it comes from the old adage 'familiarity breeds contempt'. The minibus driver has probably driven down that road many times and is almost certainly used to people bottling it and backing up to let him through.
Not contempt, as in he hates the road.
You mean complacency, as in he’s well used to the situation 🤓
Or ‘The Taxi Effect’, I drive every day so get off my tarmac!
So you don’t think the driving school vehicle hasn’t driven this road either?
Easier to blame the mini bus when the video has been edited to make it one sided. He should upload the unedited version showing how much time both vehicles have to navigate this situation safely.
I am a minibus driver and would never drive like that.
Feel for the student after the incident. I was a very nervy learner driver because the weight and expectations of driving with others peoples lives in my hands whilst also having to make sure I visually showed my instructor I was doing my checks, listening to him, paying attention to the road, signs. After the 2 hours I was shattered. After an event like the above, it would leave me feeling like I'd been driving for 4 hours.
I wish I had u as my instructor mine just shouted at me your so calm under pressure
Well done to you
I can’t exactly tell because the dash cam distorts the image, but it looks like there would have been space for you to reverse behind the dark grey van on the left and let the minibus through
There was enough space but he wanted to play the card of the innocent learner driver
I would have stayed at 1:21 than reverse a little the toyato should see if it clear anyways so it would stay were it was so the mini bus can go into the side road it sounds better in my head lol
You say toyato but Brits say toyoto.
@@keith6400 toy-oh-tah
@@ollieb9875 Let's call the whole thing off
That’s probably what the driver of the minibus was thinking I would imagine.
I would send this clip in to the council - the minibus driver’s attitude didn’t help the situation at all, especially when your learner was waiting patiently to let them past
There's bound to be an occasion when a learner is out on test and is nervous as it is. To be met with road rage or impatient drivers could result in the pupil failing the test, if they lose their composure.
the driving instructor lost it at at the point of 2:30 of this video... “So, clutch down and steer left a little bit, good …we are going to go tight left and put it in first or steer right now!! steer right now!!!!!” 😂
There's one thing that I think was critical to how both your student and the bus driver approached this situation: with your BMW being obscured by the parked transit van around a long bend, I'm sure that bus driver didn't see you until it was too late for him to pull in.
Granted he should not have been going as fast as he was with all of those hazards on the road and you do mention this. I just think the fact that neither driver saw each other until they were both in a situation where someone was going to have to reverse or tightly squeeze through was important too.
A possible get-out clause would be to turn right into the junction and take a different route because was coming through come hell or high water.
Mini bus was visible at 0.40, the obstruction is on your side so mini van has right of way. There was enough space to pull up behind the blue van, the Toyota was safe on the side road so has no relevance to the situation.
This area would serve as a prime example for the Council to paint Double Yellows opposite the junction. Allowing extra room to manoeuvre either around the junction, and to wait at the corner. Councils should create these passing points on every narrow bend when line of sight is lost.
Agreed. The Blue transit is blocking the right junction. Only problem is, so may ignore double yellows
shouldn't need double yellows opposite a junction, you aren't supposed to park there anyway.
Cal, oh absolutely! But as Robert mentions, many people ignore these highway codes. The more signage or paint on the road, the better chance of dissuading poor parking! Eventually people will learn and have a little more consideration to others when on the roads.
Your tone of voice towards the end there was stressing out the learner.
"Not what you said, just your tone" not having a go but something worth mentioning.
Agreed
@@SL-xe6mu This is how I learnt though. My instructor saying things with the tone of his voice made me think again. It's harder to take seriously when he is talking like a normal conversation.
If you don't change tone the pupil will never learn the seriousness of situations. Was the tone the same throughout the clip?
@@ashley_neal Towards the end. 4:33
I don’t think the instructor was horrible, I think he was just being direct understandable, it’s not like he was constantly been spoken to like thst
I'm always horrified how they think it's acceptable to park half on the road, half on the footpath, in the UK. It's dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists & other drivers. If you can't afford to garage the car or park it properly, you shouldn't be allowed to own one.
>park half on the road, half on the footpath
You *have* to do this in the UK on many roads. If you don't park half on the path, the remaining road just isn't wide enough for larger vehicles (including fire engines and ambulances!). On wider and busier roads, this same practice allows two way traffic to continue where otherwise it would be constantly blocked. It's a necessary evil and considerate drivers try and balance how much is on the pavement vs the road to leave enough space on the path while leaving enough space for large vehicles to get through.
> If you can't afford to garage the car or park it properly, you shouldn't be allowed to own one.
So you prefer to live in a elitist country where only the rich are allowed to drive? You sound lovely. The reality is the majority of UK homes don't have a even a drive let alone a garage, and even the ones that do (larger more expensive homes!) then don't have sufficient off road space for the size of family can usually afford that size of home. Those same people you think shouldn't be allowed to own a car are often the same people that need a car to provide those critical services you rely on.
Fool.
@@ryanmitcham5522 buy a driveway poor boy
In New Zealand we dont have these old narrow roads where people have to park half on the pavement and cars still cant both use it at the same time. Thank god.
Its the parking allowed opposite the junction that is the issue here. If They had yellow lines along that road congestion would not be an issue. Another local council victory.
Living in the countryside I face a similar problem with single track roads all the time. Local's know to keep their speed in check and to anticipate the need to make way. It's not always clear who should give way, but for most, we always figure it out because it's the rule, not the exception. In this case it was simply "i'm bigger, you move", which I see all the time with drivers of larger vehicles.
I remember driving on a country road, and this farmer yelled at me to stop. I said what’s the issue? He held me there for 5 minutes while a factor came the other way. Fair enough but I was quite shocked how nasty and rude he was about it
The only takeaway for me as an american is england needs wider roads
Would you not drive enough past the junction to allow the car out from the side of you, then reverse back behind the van at 2:22 to allow the large vehicle ahead to pass at the junction?
It's a good plan ostensibly but what if the Toyota doesn't move as you wish? I recently pulled to the side of the road (indicating and gently coming to a stop) to let an ambulance pass only to have the clown behind pull up so close and far enough to the right that not only could they not steer past me but they were also blocking the road as the person coming the other way stopped opposite me - so the whole road was blocked. To make things worse, when I pulled forwards to allow the schmuck behind the chance to move, they repeated their idiocy and got stuck again! I don't even know if they realised there was an ambulance on blues and sirens behind them. You can't rely on other drivers being sensible and of course, they will always blame the one person who is trying to think ahead.
Excellent clip. I am of the opinion that not nearly enough people on the road look to co-operate and instead focus too heavily on their "priority". If I was the car looking to pull out of the junction I'd have strongly considered reversing a little. If I was the bus I would most likely have stopped on sight of the car and considered options to help. If I was in your car I may have considered reversing but out of all three vehicles involved that would be the least realistic I think. I have a relaxed co-operative approach to driving. I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I've been held up due to arguments over priority. It takes a few seconds to cede priority, it takes an awful lot longer to cause congestion over it like happened here.
Just like a quiet version of my street. This is very common here, complete with blaring horns, arguments and such. Similarly there is limited visibility, especially when approaching from the direction that is supposed to yield.
In a tight situation like that, it's as well to remember that folding in your door mirrors will give extra clearance. In the case of two oncoming cars, if both drivers fold in both of their mirrors that can make an otherwise impassable gap suddenly up to 6 inches or so wider. Of course in the case of the mini bus, I appreciate the driver can't very well fold in their near side mirror, poosibly also the drivers side is not foldable anyway. But something to bear in mind for cars.
In a situation such as this video (as well as generally when driving down narrow single track roads), I roll down my window and manually fold my drivers door mirror in (mine aren't electrically foldable). And if I have a passenger, I get them to do the same thing with the passenger door mirror if I consider it neccassary going through a narrow gap. All this can give you a few extra inches clearance and once clear of the pinch point, it's a case of unfolding the door mirrors back out again.
Not trying to be a smart alec at all and every situation is different but genuine question: Do you ever consider folding in your mirrors In a tight situation such as this Ash and is this something you would consider teaching your pupils? And are your BMW door mirrors foldable electronically via a switch or manually?
Folding my mirrors in on my car is an easy option and may have been a good one also in this situation. Many thanks as always, Ashley.
A fairly typical, vomit inducing road. Good job navigating it. Serious parking restrictions are needed, or possibly a one way system.
Small streets such as this are usually one way streets in Sweden and typically you are not allowed to park on both sides (or the date system is used rarely).
I commend the navigation but seriously, UK has some fucked up road laws (and they drive on the left, which is vomit inducing), they make everything more complicated on purpose. They are one way streets to avoid situations exactly like this one.
So, what about putting the car behind the transit to the left "2:22", would that have helped the situation further? Just that the space for the bus to pass through is still very narrow, unaided by the learner vehicle position? (Just think that utilising the space behind the transit would have negated any development of any issues)
agree 100%
I drive a minibus, and driving it is a lot harder than a car, and don’t have a rear view mirror either
I despise these sorts of streets. They were not built with every household having cars, in mind. Especially not 2-4 cars per household.
I would just level the entire place and start again.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Yes, there is some rather narrow roads in the Uk, you have to breathe in
Or as another option. Turn right into the right hand junction where the red car was,stop and wait for the White van to pass reverse and carry on your way. I'm a motorcyclists, I don't drive a brick so maybe what I'm saying don't count. Lol and this is one of many reasons why I ride and not drive. ;-) but well done on the way you dealt with it.
The passengers weren't the only regards on that bus.
I would have turned right where the Toyota was turning left, as there was plenty room, even though there's a white van just round that bend (how many of you were observant enough to see that?). I would then have turned around where safe, and gone back, turning right, slowly inching my nose out till it was safe.
I should have waited at roughly 1.04 close to the kerb behind the Transit on the left. The Toyota trying to emerge is partially blocked in a side road but could force out on the pavement and not the Range Rover 1.43 has lights on so has a driver in it that can move it if required.
You can see the approaching minibus at 0:39, so I would have pulled it behind the blue van, waited for it to pass, then crept out for another go.
I think the learner did well here. The modified Mercedes-Benz Sprinter wheelchair accessible minibus, could not be seen until the learner car over took the parked Ford Transit Custom. In this situation, the learner could have pulled over to give way to the minibus, but then the driver of the Toyota RAV-4 could not have turned left into the road. The driver of the minibus should and could of easily pulled in for the learner to pass. It’s a good situation for the learner to be in. I believe this close passing was the minibus driver’s causing, being that it could not be seen by the learner, until they overtook the parked van.
I feel like it would've been easiest to drive forward, so the Toyota could take its turn, then reversed back (either into that road, with extreme caution, or reversed into the spot behind that smaller van just to the left)
Surely the easier and most obvious solution to this would have been to reverse back a few meters into the left behind the Transit/infront of the Corsa. This would perhaps involve mounting the pavement slightly to allow the mini-bus space, but definitely rolling along to road towards the oncoming mini-bus where there is clearly no margin for error was the wrong decision. I'm baffled as how anyone can think this is in anyway the mini-bus drivers fault.
Reversing back would have been a good solution with the correct pupil, but there was enough room to pass anyway. The mini bus driver is obviously not very skilled as he seemed to think there wasn’t enough room initially, but in the end it was fine. The mini bus driver also did little to help with a solution. He stayed central in the lane until late. Positioning closer to the kerb would have allowed him to judge the space more effectively. He just wanted to be problematic and is not suited to his line of work. Where the red car waited near the end of the clip is exactly what he should have done until my learner had cleared the one lane available. No harm done in the end as a solution was found by the pupil and I. Thanks.
In this situation, as there weren't any vehicles behind me, I would have probably gone forward to give room to the Toyota to turn right, then reversed back to allow the minibus to manouver into the side street. But yes I find these sorts of minibus drivers to be idiots a lot of the time, as they are mosly volunteers and older.
I think he knows the road which is why he may have become complacent with his speed. There is a reaon why drivers are more likely to have a crash near their home or permanent place of work. This is because they are over familiar with the area and tend to lack concentration due to being complacent.
It is all about common sense personally I would of moved forward let the Toyota out and moved back a bit then minibus could use the junction but saying that he could and should of waited but I guess some people dont pay enough attention to the changing road situation
Would have
You move forward -Toyota drives off- you move back-another cat pulls up where Toyota was.Then what?
When you say... we *can't* wait here because there is a Toyota waiting to proceed... is that strictly true? Yes, they'd be blocked if you really had to stop there, but at the end of the day the Toyota is at a give way and so surely they can't enter the major road if its not proper
There's a road on my route to work which is very similar. It's a thin, straight road (no bends that obscure the view) with lots of parked cars with the main problem area being about 140m in length. There is a small shop on this road that has a lot of traffic so it can be busy at times. I have on multiple occasions stopped to allow one or even multiple cars through. I have however had problems with oncoming cars trying to drive down this road when I am already half way forcing me to try and fit into the smallest gaps to allow them to pass. Annoying really that they can't just let me go.
One option: pull forward, let the car in the side road proceed, then reverse into the side road if it's clear?
Given what dash-cams do to perspective, I really don't want to pass judgement without actually seeing the minibus driver's POV also.
Everyone got through & nothing got damaged, in that type of situation & that location, I count that as a win all round.
Back in 2001 when they were building Millennium Point in Birmingham. It was the middle of summer and I was installing specialist lighting above the steam gallery. Had to work very late into the night for about 2 weeks to set it up because it was summer. There was some music playing on one of the exhibits, not unlike what you play. I got so tired I actually felt sick. Now every time I hear your intro music, I fell sick because I’ve associated listening to that all night every night with feeling sick. Just sayin
No, the problem is all the council. They are aware of the parking problem, but do nothing about it. None of those cars should be half on the pavement, and there should be parking restrictions applied. It really is that simple.
Why didn’t you just pull in behind the blue transit van ?
Would have had to reverse parallel park to get behind and even then the car behind them might have been blocking the road too much for the car to their right to get through
jacintalovesart Incorrect could have just pulled in no problem
They didn’t see the oncoming minibus’s until after they’d moved out to pass the transit.
However, they could easily have reversed back one car length to avoid this pinch point pass.
There is ALWAYS more space to play with at a junction, so with a little flexibility from all parties, passing there would have been less risky.
I would have personally gave the minibus priorit
I would have passed the junction enough to allow the Toyota out as they were going the other way, then reversed back enough to allow the minibus through. Or maybe indicated and just gone down the road the Toyota was in to clear. Not sure on the space or timing for that second option and certainly wouldn't expect a learner to think of that.
Personally been in a situation similar but it was a full length bus coming the other way, I pulled forward let car clear the junction and reversed into a space I had just roughly positioned where that blue van was, was still tight for the bus given it was a full length one but I tucked my mirror, this was maybe 5 weeks after I'd passed my test and was still running P- plates
1:07 - how about turn right and reroute.
I would have stopped and made a right on that road.....I will NEVER understand UK's obsession with cramped roads and parking half on sidewalks, just boggles my mind. I've never seen this type of thing in the states.
>obsession with cramped roads
Much older housing stock built next to roads never designed for the car. How do you make a road wider when there are houses in the way? (and who is going to pay for it?!). (Also frustratingly new housing estates are *still* being built with narrow roads, but that's an issue with developers wanting to cram as many housing onto a piece of land as they can, and insufficient regulation of that!)
>parking half on sidewalks
Well yeah. If people didn't, how does the fire engine, ambulance and large delivery vehicles get past?
>I've never seen this type of thing in the states.
Well duh, you have a shit load more land. You build houses further apart, your roads are much wider.
@@ryanmitcham5522 u brits have such bad roads
@@ryanmitcham5522 look how narrow the roads are on ur tiny island
Buy by the rule mini bus has priority since his side of the lane is not blocked it's us partly on his side, right?
I find it absolutely ridiculous that cars park like that on streets
most people are forgetting that the bus can see the car in the junction and any professional driver would think why is he not moving and slow the bus driver was well to fast and should be reported. it's easy to say I would have done this or you should do that, as an HGV driver of 14 years you make your life easy not hard the bus driver made his hard.
Jeez - I don't think I would have attempted to do what you did here cos the passing space just didn't look big enough for a bus to squeeze into. I know this estate pretty well so in all likelihood I would have thought oh, I can't be arsed negotioting this and just turned right and taken a couple of other roads to get to where I was going lol. Or alternatively I would have stopped alongside the Transit, let the Toyota out and then reversed back to behind the Transit to let the minibus through.
Personally I'd have got myself ready to reverse, allowed the toyota at the junction to pass, then gone back into the space on the left. Taking up most of the road with my car would have told the minibus to hang fire and be ready to pass me, but I don't know if that would have been viable because the go pros make everything look larger.
I've had near misses with the minibuses which operate the service in my area and often see them speeding. I've even seen one of their drivers on his phone while driving. As a parent, I wouldn't have my kids travelling in their minibuses given what I have witnessed.
I drive a minibus, and there is a few drivers who think they own the road
As you and your pupil could not see what was coming till you got to the junction on you right and as your pupil was already committed, the mini bus driver should have waited for your pupil to pass the obstructions (parked cars), but as usual always blame the other driver, in this case your pupil. We live in a society, especially on the road, always blame the other person, even when you are at fault.
Mini bus using his size and the speed to make people let him through! Disgraceful hope the council see this and his reaction!
Kate fletcher g
Not really.
Neither driver could see the other until they were engaged in the pinch point.
The minibus is on the unobstructed side of the road. He was going probably under 20mph.
The learner is on the side with the parked car obstructions and should hopefully be planning to ease the flow of the unobstructed oncoming lane.
It’s not always going to work out like that, but both vehicles could easily stop in the distance they could see to be clear.
It didn’t work out well in this instance and the other driver did display exasperation, but there was actually just about room to pass, so no real problem.
Tight street with shops and a curve is an annoyance in the making. I’m glad I don’t have to pass here every day 🤓
I think there is a larger vehicle mentality, but PCV drivers have to maintain strict standards on the road, I have to have MIDAS training and CPC courses to make sure my driving is up to scratch
"Look far" I assume that means scanning 12 seconds ahead?? Thats what I learned at defensive driving
Course.