Why Do So Many People Hate Relic Guitars?
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Relic Guitars are a contentious subject with many guitar players today, some love them and others absolutely hate them. I think in many way relic guitars are better than their non relic counterparts and in today's video Im going to tell you why. - เพลง
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That was a fair and rational opinion from rhett even if I dont agree with it
I agree with you on this video. Its more about being authentic and having stories behind the guitar rather than "stolen valor".. but yeah diff strokes for diff folks..
You should maybe look up what “stolen valor” actually is before throwing around terms like that. It’s music , it’s supposed to be fun. To compare someone who plays an aged guitar to someone faking military service is a little bit of a stretch.
@@nickl2883Man I know what it means. Americans and Canadians have a different relationship with the military thing...
@@samuraiguitaristmy take, it’s like getting a tattoo of a scar! 🤪
We’re with you here, mate. 😉
The most important part of choosing a guitar is the nose, aroma and fragrance it gives off when the sommelier uncorks it.
I’m getting notes of ash and leather
And Natural, biodynamic Guitars are better than Conventional Guitars
@@RhettShull to me it's the taste of a true nitro finish that really gets me. People think I'm weird because I lick all the guitars I play, but to me if you don't taste the finish, you can't hear the tone. Dig?
JK
I'll be at the Fretboard Summit with some guitars I made, I'd be grateful if you'd give them the once over if you get a minute.
They will not be super shiny.
Nice. I think I laughed at that harder than I should have.
Those ppl are even deucheyer than guitar players
"I'm getting that piney node, than as the palette cleanses with the second sip you can taste the citrus butter while getting a hint of feces up the nose as hits the back of the throat"
I'll save you'all 10 mins of the click-bait title.... Rhett prefers satin necks and rolled fretboards, has really nothing to do with relic finishes but no one would get all pissed off and click if that was the title. ;)
Fantastic summary!!
Agreed!! Spot on Jay!! He also needs subscribers to his lesson plans!
He’s the clickiest of the click baiters
Thanks🎉
The 10 minutes adds vintage mojo aroma and pixie dust
Relic or not, a good guitar is a good guitar, a bad guitar is a bad guitar, period.
To you personally, sure. I might like a guitar that you might think is a giant piece of shit. What makes a good or bad guitar is subjective, just like relic-ing preference.
The only universal truth when it comes to guitars.
IMHO I dont think so. Custom shop guitars wear out way way faster than mexican or american series guitars. So money wise, its not a good guitar to buy. You will spend more money initally and in the long run. Sonically its not miles apart than american strats. Imo its more like a scam. But each to their own.
@@jojojojojojojojojojojojob erm, how do guitars wear out? they need new transmissions or something?
@@jojojojojojojojojojojojobthe copium is real
I like the look of relic guitars, but I have to disagree that rolling the fingerboard and steel wool-ing the neck is relicing. For a guitar to be reliced, I think it has to give the impression of being a relic in all aspects--it has to show that it has significance as an instrument, which means it has to look like it was used a lot. Increased ergonomics like a rolled fingerboard and non-sticky neck, are just a development in production methods, and actually signify a later stage of production.
I am with you when we make adjustments to the neck those are performance enhancements. As for mainstream made relics outside some replica concepts I find most of them have 'tells' that anyone whose eye catches much detail will see and it destroys the vibe when those shiny new bits give it away or the relic process brings inaccurate results
Well said.
I think we may be getting a few things mixed up together here, myself. "I" would suggest that rolled finger boards and rounded fret ends are not the same as relic guitars. Sanding the paint off and artificially aging the fret board is what I'd call a relic job. It would seem to be purely for aesthetics and have no affect on the playability. However, A natural or mat finished neck and rolled finger boards and rounded fret ends are all upgrades to a guitar that can be accomplished without artificially aging anything so that it looks old. Total novice here and this is just an observation that could totally be wrong. Thanks for a great video
I agree with this. If I install vintage wiring or put in old pickups because I'm looking for a certain tone, that's not a relic job, even though it's a modification to make the guitar play better or more like a vintage guitar. If I change the neck by rolling the fingerboard or sanding the finish because that's how I prefer the neck to feel, again, I'd call that a modification, not a relic job. However, if I change the aesthetics of the guitar, for the express purpose of making it resemble a vintage or older guitar, that would be a relic job. Things like yellowing the plastics or chipping/wearing the paint fall into that category. Of course, you can have relic jobs that also have the advantage of giving you a better feel, and you can make playability modifications that also have the added benefit of giving your guitar a cool look. But I would tend to separate the two things based on the purpose of the change. As Rhett mentioned, you can get rolled fingerboards and sanded or matte necks brand new and I wouldn't think that the manufacturers necessarily consider that to be a relic job. I don't have any problem with any of it. Modify to suit your taste, both aesthetically and with regard to playability.
Absolutely 100% agree! Was going to make this comment myself, but you summed it up perfectly.
Right on man..
Absolutely agree. I just said the same in more words and less clear in my reply before seeing this. 'comfy as a design' without it being 'aged'.
I think Rhetts point is that the fairly recent idea of rounded fretboards and satin necks came directly from the comfort and feel of a worn in guitar. The idea of prematurely rounding edges came directly from the relic movement. Even if you deeply despise everything about the relic visual aesthetic (as many vociferously do), if you own a modern factory fresh guitar with rounded fretboard edges then relic techniques have been applied to it. Relic is not only a visual thing - for some fans it's not even the primary thing - it's also a played-in comfort thing.
Im going over to the gear page and starting a scathing thread before I watch this. brb
Be sure to tag me 🫡
LOL. There are people on some of those forums that go nuts on certain subjects.
@@timothyappling9172its hillarious and deeply concerning in equal measure 😂
@@Paul-Dbig +1 😂
Back in the day, the nitro-finished Fenders started looking relic-ed the minute they got gigged, and the maple fingerboards got divots if you even THOUGHT about playing them. Drove guitar players nuts and there were innumerable rattle-can refins. That is why there are so few original-finish Fifties Fenders left, and I suspect a lot of those are restorations masquerading as original. It's also why Leo went to rosewood fingerboards starting in 1958. It's ALSO why CBS went to poly in the early '70s. Rolled fingerboards and satin neck backs are ergonomically useful but can be part of new production without a banged-up body trying to impersonate an original.
My take on relics is that by this time in history, no one now active remembers that once-upon-a-time your average-Joe player could make a decent living just playing music in the local bars, so today's dentists, accountants, and urban planners who do play have to make do with looking like they were real musicians.
I just have to clear this up because it bugs me. Polyurethane is the finish polyester is a fabric
Master luthier speaking here. No your info is incorrect. There are polyester finishes and polyurethane finishes. The two smell different are applied differently they wear differently. They each have a different reaction or lack of to finish strippers, they burn differently and crack differently on impact.
They both are the enemy of pleasant aged appearence but will look new longer especially polyesters.
I'm 45, have played ~ 30 years. I can give all the reasons why I like relic'd guitars, but if nothing else, I enjoy them. I also have a new non-relc'd guitar that I wouldn't really want to get dinged up. Both have their place.
Yep, I feel the same way. Relic and non-relic both have a place. You don’t have to take a side; you can enjoy both.
Couldn’t agree more. As long as someone isn’t trying to pass a relic’d guitar off as vintage, I have no problems with it. Would I personally relic a guitar, no. But if someone offered me a nice guitar relic’d at a great price, I’d take it.
@@csharp57 In the unlikely event that I would pay through the nose for a reliced guitar,
I would certainly be upset if it didn't maintain it's resale value.
A lot of these reasons you listed are why I only buy used guitars. They don't have to be vintage to be broken in. You can get a guitar from 15-20 years ago for much cheaper than a new guitar. And it will often be very comfortable to play. Sure, it won't be as worn down as a vintage or relic'd guitar, but it will have been played enough to get rid of the rough edges and sticky neck.
For me the sweet spot was Fender's short-lived Road Worn Player series. Neck finishes were nicely broken in but an even, consistent fashion over the entire length without patches of extreme wear/ discoloration.
I have three main guitars, I did sand off a bit of the shiny lacquer on the neck on two of them (Ibanez Artcore AF75, Harley Benton TE70) and I do appreciate the fact that my No. 1 (Music Man St Vincent) already has a nice soft finish. This is adjustment to personal taste, but I wouldn't call it "relicing", as I did it right away after I got them. But then, this may be just different wording.
But I just cannot grasp the fact that someone's willing to pay around 5600 Dollars for a Telecaster with a relic finish. This is just beyond me. I get it, quality wood, quality tuners, well-crafted pickups, exact measurement, acute craftmanship in putting the components together. But it's a freakin' Telecaster - literally the prototype of mass-produced guitars. I don't mean this in any derogatory way, I love the simplistic design, but incredibly variable tone. But paying effing 5600 Dollars for a Telecaster with all the ingredients of a 50s design plus "relic" is just ridiculous, sorry.
So true! When I bought my tele, I had no intention of buying a reliced guitar but fell in love with how a reliced one felt. 7 years later, the neck on that guitar still makes me happy every time I play it.
My favorite aspect of having a lightly reliced guitar is that you don’t care if you get a ding or scratch. With a shiny new guitar, the first ding is a travesty, with a reliced guitar, it adds character. You’re 100% right about a reliced guitar feeling way, way better
Those are called used guitars. Plenty of them on the market without needing to pay to take a new guitar and scuff it up
@@I.am_Grootsometimes it’s hard for people to sort out whether it’s been “used” or “abused.” You can buy a new relic with most of the benefits of a used guitar, and know for sure it hasn’t been abused.
I dinged my R9 shortly after buying it. If I paid a lot extra for a Murphy lab you could argue that I improved it!
Yep, finally got my first Fender Custom Shop...used and lightly relic'd. So glad...can play and handle it with NO worries.
@@shaunhughes2 Exactly my thoughts. And it goes double for buying online and there’s no chance of trying it first
Rolling fingerboard, making the neck mate doesn’t count as relicing because it doesn’t look old. The neck doesn’t wear that way.
Relicing is aesthetic and adjusting the neck is ergonomics. You should buy custom shop with intact finish and “relic” neck.
Relicing isn't just about look its about feel too. Way to completely miss the point.
@@strawsparky33 i didnt miss the point i rejected it in it’s entirety. Changing the neck finish and rolling edges doesn’t make anything looked reliced just ergonomic. Plus if thats all he cared about he could get a new guitar with intact finish a mate neck and rolled edges, and no one would call the reliced. Relicing is aesthetic
@@strawsparky33Do you think one of the reasons of buying pre ripped jeans is "the feel"? Making a guitar feel nice is not relicing
@@strawsparky33 You’re just arguing to argue, kiddo. By your argument, sanding is relicing. Which means, according to your weird theory, that every guitar ever made has been “reliced” during the building process.
Relicing is a visual thing, kid.
I've been repairing guitars for over 25 years, so this isn't something i share really often, but personally i recoil from relicing. I don't think it's because in making it look old, they're making them look more valuable as much as it's imbuing it with a sort of manufactured character.
There's definitely truth in the idea that they're more comfortable and lived in feeling, and that they tend to sound better due to the things that happen in the relicing process: thinner finish, lighter and dryer wood, etc. But there's nothing keeping people from building a new unreliced guitar with all of those same characteristics: the neck profile, fretboard shaping, thinner and harder finish (they changed the finishes more to last longer than to make it any safer. They add plasticizers and inhibitors to make it more mailable longer so it doesn't cheque and flake off, but there's still finish without them), etc.
I get why people like them, i just don't ever see having a guitar built for myself and opting for an aged look. 🤷
Grew up dirt poor in the 60s and 70s…all we could afford was “relics “…😂 they were in a barrel with 3 rusty ‘relic’ strings and warped necks in the back or hanging from a wall next to the automotive parts in the pawnshop….hey, if it makes you happy and play better I’m all for it…😊
I prefer non-relic guitars 🎸. Every nick, ding, smudge and scuff is something that I have accidentally done to them. Just my personal preference. I agree with Samurai Guitarist.
I have a '96 MIM Strat has finger marks across the fretboard, cig burns on the headstock, cracks and chips across the sunburst finish and frets worn to the point that if it were played regularly would need them replaced within a year. It plays so smooth frets are worn but level its effortless to get clear chiming tones stays in tune even when you work the trem and has a great warm strat tone that is amazing for Ritchie Blackmore style solos. I grab it for a quick ride around the block every week or so it has plenty of life left I didn't do most of the natural relic myself but its easy to see why someone played it so much. You simply cannot manufacture that kind of vibe by artificially relic in my opinion
I purchased a LP custom I found in a pawn shop in NYC in the late 90’s. I didn’t put all of the wear and tear on it so I don’t know the whole story of every mark. I can’t even remember what I put there from what the other owner(s) put there. So I can’t get on board with that whole notion. Doesn’t take away from the guitar at all.
People who relic their guitars actually have more knowledge of every blemish on their new guitar more than I do with my vintage. So I disagree with Mr. Samurai
I have a Sonic Blue 1960 Fender Stratocaster Custom Shop relic which can happily sit out on a stand and be played ANY time without worrying about damage, discolouration, nicks or dings. It plays beautifully. I also have a Mint- Alpine White 1987 Gibson Les Paul Custom with Tim Shaw's. It also plays beautifully, but it lives in its case in the attic for fear of damage, discolouration, nicks or dings... This is why I love a 'relic'. I've also got two other 'road worn' Telecasters which can sit out on stands - the Joe Strummer 2007 and Chrissie Hynde 2022. They stay out on stands, whilst my Mint Pink Paisley CIJ Telecaster is forced to hide like a recluse in its case. I'm not trying to fool anyone, but for me it's the smoothness and feel of playing these relics, but mainly because they can be ACCESSIBLE at all times. As for the naysayers - "That guitar didn't earn its damage" and the "You're just a poseur" all I can say is "I don't give a f**k what you think !!"😄
Of all the reasons for relicing this, to me, is the best. No one wants to see the first ding on their brand new custom shop guitar. If it already has plenty of dings and scratches the next one just adds to the cachet of the guitar. Whether it’s worth the cost of relicing is a personal decision. Not really for me, most of mine are used anyway so they weren’t pristine when I got them.
Sanding down the neck, fretboard, or fret edges is just a MODIFICATION.
The flaking paint and artificial fret gunk is a "relic" thing. IMO obviously.
In 50 years people will say - ''It just doesn't wear like a Polly finish''. I'll be 90 years old doing this... 🙄
I think most people's issue with relics is not the "broken in" part. It's the esthetic and the fact that you are deceiving people about the nature of the instrument and the time you might have spent on it. Yes, sanding the fingerboard and the back of the neck is a sort of "relic" that makes your guitar feel better. The finish being uncomfortable is not an argument for relic'ing, it's an argument against the finish. Does the finish feel bad? If yes, then why is it there? Find another one if you're gonna get a custom guitar. And making the guitar look like it was played even though it wasn't makes a prop out of it imo. I'm all for making your instrument more comfortable with strategic sanding and modding, that's absolutely a way to make it your own and improves your instrument. But that is not the argument against relic'ing for people who don't like it. I whole-heartedly agree with Ol' Sammy G about earning the ageing. The only reason for a relic look, as you admittedly argue after his clip, is that it looks like it's from the 50s because a newer one will never age the same way. It's a fetishization of the vintage. To each their own of course! Let's just be honest about why people like relics and pay (a big) extra for it, it's not the feel, even though the feel is improved.
“Fetishization of vintage” is basically Rhett’s whole channel lol
"The finish being uncomfortable is not an argument for relic'ing, " Yes, yes it is. You can like everything else about the guitar, but the finish can be uncomfortable.
That’s all wrong. You’re projecting your own imposter syndrome on everyone else.
@@toddbaxley7789yes but sanding the finish/edges down doesnt necessarily make it more of a a relic bc its more of an ergonomical preference that i would say most guitarists share. As rhett says, they make regular new guitars with these techniques. I dont think anyone specifically buys relics because they feel more beat in.
@@dezertson2011
Well, at least Relic fans aren’t control freaks who want to force their “superior” opinions on everyone else.
I can’t agree that filing fret ends smoothing a neck finish to play smoother falls into the ‘relic’ description. As you show, many guitars are built with nicely rounded frets and minimal fishing on the neck to play smoother. Performing those tasks is merely bringing the guitar to a performance spec that is not intended to make the guitar look like something it isn’t.
“Fake memories” - Tom Bukovac
Who?
Tom Bukovac is a great player and ive taken a lot of his advice and considerations on playing, but his opinions on anything outside of actually playing the guitar dont carry much weight to me.
How come nobody relics a PRS premium top ? Would play so much better.
The most important advice on guitar buying I ever got, from my first teacher, when I was 16: You need to buy the guitar with *looks* that inspire you most--it's what will get you to take it off the wall and play more, which is how you improve.
From the perspective of someone who had guitar crafting apprenticeship.Light Wood selection makes a big difference as it raises the bar of starting point. Then the wood goes through CNC and first stage of sanding. Next is design and the actual body and neck shaping. Body and Neck Shaping is very critical when it comes to softening the edges of every corner even the pick up routing cavities. That’s what gives out the feeling of smoothness or the broken in feel when you look, hold and play it. Great body and neck sanding will result in evenness on the surface of top and back with no bump when running hand through it even the armrest will feel smooth and the feel of transition is very minimal to none.
Also something that the eyes can’t see as the process of putting the neck together. Truss-rod, fingerboard, side dots - imagine a chunk of glue were applied unevenly, that might add some stiffness. Neck are sanded to the exact measurements using straightedge to make sure there is no bump along the neck when running your hand up and down. Well crafted instruments are given attention to those little things. Then when the body and neck is sanded precisely to the measurement. I mean precisely measuring with straightedge and checking the shadow reflection for uneven layer of sanding. Then it is ready for painting. Now every guitar are starting to off with brand new paint then to the relic process. From my experience, the place I had an apprenticeship are handcrafted relic guitars only. They are in 4-5000 price range. All attention to detail were given to most guitar equally although strat takes longer than tele. But the end result, same model, same relic, same hardware, same builder but the one with lighter wood seems to stands out.
But that does’t mean then just pick out the lightest guitar because if the attention to detail of the craftsmanship is not there then its not going to be at its best stage. However I only handled body and neck shaping while the other staff does the painting. I can say that body and neck shaping making everything softer will make the guitar has broken feel in your hand.
Totally ruffled. I put my own scratches/dents in my stuff thank you very much. No upcharge either.
The worn jeans example is so funny to me when 99% of the jeans people buy are already washed and worn when you get them. Yes even the 501, even your cowboy cut wrangler. Everything that’s not raw denim is “reliced” to make it comfortable to wear out of the store. And I’m not even talking about the stone washed ones…
So if the “wash for better comfort” is a common feature on non-reliced jeans, kinda like a matte finish neck with rolled fretboard edges… then logically the “reliced” guitar is akin to the jeans with more aesthetic wear to them for fashion purposes, no?
@@MrWill9894 A heavy relic would be akin to a distressed pair of jeans yes. But rolled edges or mat finish on the neck is like a washed pair of jeans. Light relic would be something like a stonewashed pair of denim, without the holes and distressing.
Nailed it. I have two Nash relics and one from the Fender Custom Shop and they’re amazing in looks and in feel. Nobody is into these because they’re trying to trick people. We just aren’t going to live long enough to relic a new poly guitar.
To improve the quality of this video, release it in sepia tone. Ridiculous.
Every guitar goes through sanding in production, sanding the neck to your desired feel doesn’t seem to me like “relicing” the guitar. If it’s comfort you are after, i believe there are a lot of options to choose from in 2024.
Other than that relicing is purely vibe and looks (which is totally fine, I just don’t see the reason to hide it with functional reasons)
During lockdown I did a bit of a project where I had a go at trying to build myself a partscaster that had the look of a guitar Richard Thompson played through the 1970’s, 1980’s before he started playing other guitars, before he started playing other vintage Strats.
I found a couple of Sunburst finish Squier Bodies, one that was already a little worn shall we say & another that had been cared for a bit more, but was a good price. The newer one already came with a maple neck Found myself another maple neck. Chose myself a couple of different sets of authentic Fender pickups, and parts. Then started the process of sanding of the top layer of gloss, that all poly finishes tend to have. All is fine at this point. In fact, rather like the look of going from a gloss finish to a silk finish. Well, somewhere between silk & Matt finish tbh. However, this is where quite expectedly I got to the issues of using a Polyester finish guitar, is as you sand through the top layers you get to quite a thick base layer and then finally to the wood. And you are then faced with a choice, do you give a hard line with no slope in the finish, or do you give a more natural wear, with a more gradual slope, but with a less authentic final look from a distance, but more realistic close up to how a poly finish might possibly wear. In the end I went for the latter, whiles still trying to still maintain the wear looks. I also came up with a solution to age the revealed natural wood where the finish was totally worn away.
Thing is, Fender are never going to issue a Richard Thompson signiture for that period we all know from the late 70’s into mid 80’s and all those great albums.
I own a Japanese Fender Telecaster JD like Jerry Donahue used. With its four way switching. I’ve made myself a Richard Thompson RT Strat.
The hindsight though is that given the finances I’d probably just get myself Tex Mex or American made Fender Strat and all I would actually do is just knock off the top layer of gloss and make sure the neck was comfortable and simply allow my own wear marks to occur over time , from that point.
There’s actually no real need to try to get the exact look of something. Simply choosing the right pickups, switching etc to try and achieve the tone that might be in the head is the best aim.
Doing your own relic project is a great way of getting that particular itch out of a system. Btw, the resulting Strats I put together were not bad, one of which I decided to go off on a tangent a bit with my own little twist on the theme.
Rhett one of the biggest (at least for me) advantages to a relic guitar is that you dont have to handle a finely made instrument with kid gloves. I had an ES335 that i left in the car on a cold night accidentally that ended up checking in the cold in a weird way and it basically was a $1000 mistake. My Novos I bang on stuff all the time and it doesnt matter because no one can tell what was intentionally done and what was accidentally done
Nope. I'd never pay for faux-jo. I've got a few beaten up vintage lap steels but otherwise I prefer new guitars in near mint condition because I haven't beaten the shit out of them and called it mojo. Which is as pathetic as fake ripped jeans.
spin it any way you want, but relics are still for posers.
What if I play my grandfathers guitar but I'm not that accomplished? I just enjoy playing... what if I'm given a guitar that's 50 years old and road worn? What if I buy one from neighbour? What if I buy one from ebay? Reverb? Andertons? Why draw a line?
@@billysuter You have missed the whole point of this topic.
The relicing treatment on the neck and fretboard server to alter the feel and playability of the guitar. In that sense, there is a mechanical function being served.
Relicing the body, as far as I can tell, is more about aesthetic. (I'll happily concede this point, as I'm not an experienced player. It's just what I currently perceive)
Both are completely valid.
If you want a worn-in neck, so you have a slightly smoother feel as you play, then by all means, go to town on the neck.
If you want to put up an older "feel" to your show, then you wear grubby older clothes, you let the stubble grow in so you look rough around the edges, and you relic the body of your guitar, to match the image.
Do either of these effect the tone of the guitar? Not as far as I know.
Do they effect the feel of playing it? Absolutely.
I have a Carson Hess broadcaster that is indistinguishable from a real broadcaster. I even have a 1950 champ lap steel pickup in the bridge and the old wiring harness. I love it even more than my real 1957 and 1966 telecasters.
Well i have reliced 2 squier strats…I love it. They feel good, they look great and guess what…I will keep relicing guitars for fun, because i enjoy playing a broken in instrument and they look dope❤ 100% with you Rhett. But I also have my Gibson LP Studio that I got as a gift back in 1996. That one I leave it as it is which is also 30 years old and I will let it age acordingly. ❤
This right here I vibe with and do appreciate the aesthetic of a good relic just not on something like a Gibson LP or USA Strat. As a partscaster concept for sure it would be cool I just don't see any value in letting someone else scuff up a pretty new guitar if the idea is that you want a banged up guitar take a Squier and go off lol
@@I.am_Groot That’s what I did😉
I like relics but man 90% of them look like shit in real life
So relic necks feel better to play which is why they should relic the body?
Hey Rhett! Great vid! I also just watched the jazzmaster comparison and was wondering what the white pedal was you used in the beggining with the Ultra? Thanks!
Does anybody else know since he hasn’t gotten back? I’m open to any thoughts
I love a relic job that mimics years of lovingly accumulated honest play wear. That tele’s finish looks like it’s been subjected to abject abuse, vandalism and neglect. Not the same thing.
Relic neck yes, high-quality relic of the body to include finish checking yes but a large portion of the finish having been worn off or removed or whatever that is you have on that telly is a no for me.
Cool go buy something else
@@strawsparky33 you first
@@user-jv6uj6eo1n dont need too. keep complaining about guitars youll never own or be able to afford my man. theyre not for everyone.
Been watching your channel finally bought a course! Excited to dig in
Thanks!
I have a 1952 Goldtop. My lifetime guitar. It sounds amazing, but looks even better all greened out over 70 plus years. I recently went into a local shop that I frequent and picked up a used Gretsch which is my first Gretsch and I in honeymoon mode with it right now. I have owned dozens of Gibson Les Paul R9' R8's and R7's. I can appreciate the difference in price for them (maybe not so much now, but when I started buying them the difference in price was not so astounding) But I could never bring myself to pay 5k plus for a bolt on neck guitar! As I was leaving the guy I work with said "if you want one of those custom shop Fender's Ill make you a great deal!" I grabbed a 52 Tele with a humbucker in the neck. I have a 51 Tele Vintage Reissue 2 which is FANTASTIC! As soon as I grabbed the neck on the custom shop I thought damn I am in trouble! I felt great and when I plugged it into a Vox AC10 it was alive! He looked around the corner in suprise and said "thats the BRIDGE PICKUP?!" It was just a phenomenal guitar. So much I started calculating what I could move/trade to come up with the cash. He did offer me a great deal. I havent pulled the trigger but it does keep me up at nights at times! I gig and record so I am not a collector per se. But in my opinion there IS a difference. Do you need to spend that much? No. But Damn that Tele was nice!
I don't know, I don't see it. I understand making a guitar more comfortable, but is that ageing? Not in my book.
When I play a new guitar I’m paranoid to scratch, but when it’s a relic you just go wild 😂
I bought a vintera telecaster back in janueary and yestarday accidentally made a tiny scratch on the headstock and went nuts about it. Now I'm ok with that because my guitar has character 😉
@@MrFelo17I bought a vintera Strat a few months ago, I’m still learning and had a small dent and cried for a week but now it gives the guitar character 😂
Very much agree with your take on this Rhett! I used to feel this shame to like the broken in and beat up look. Now I truly see the work these custom shops are doing as art in its own right. It’s beautiful and anyone that takes issue with it I feel has some issues they need to deal with. I actually have a couple vintage guitars and while I love the honest wear, it’s not MY wear and I never really feel like the guitar is mine, at least not for some time. This doesn’t happen with the custom shop stuff. I feel instantly at home and I’m happy to let my additional bumps and bruises make it mine as we go. You guys can keep the pristine ones, relic mine and relic them GOOD!
I stopped playing guitar for about 10 years (life got in the way) and one day I saw Fender’s road worn series. I thought what a cool looking guitar and I swear I felt the calling. It was like that guitar was telling me I need to get back on the saddle. Now, from the industry point of view, since then, I’ve brought 4 more guitars, amps, a bunch of pedals, cables, strings, etc, etc so it’s a definitely win for them.
To me the ripped jeans analogy is a strawman argument. A more appropriate analogy is a worked in baseball glove
Ooh yes that’s great.
no it's not. In what way does taking the finish off a third of the fretboard make the guitar more playable. Rhett even made it clear that there are functional modifications that can be made that are completely separate from the relicing for aesthetics as proven by the new looking guitars with those features.
Over 20 years ago I walked into the Fender Custom Shop room at the Dallas Guitar Center and played just about all of the Strats in there. Most were relics but a couple were NOS models. The NOS models felt noticeably stiff compared to the relics, which felt wonderfully broken in and also sounded great acoustically. Ever since then I have preferred relics. I don’t really like the overdone heavy relics so much as what they now call a journeyman relic, which has a few dings and dents and a very broken in neck. The feel of the broken in neck is really what I like the most about relics. Also, I don’t worry in the least about bumping it or scratching it on something. I’m not trying to deceive anyone and it doesn’t matter to me what anyone else thinks about why my guitar looks the way it does. It is purely for my own enjoyment. I would gladly tell anyone how old it is if they asked me. I’ve been playing guitar for more than 50 years and don’t have anything to prove to anyone else.
I'm planning to roll the edges of a couple of my guitars and plan to use your previous videos as a guide -- but any chance you could do a more comprehensive video in the future to "breaking in" the necks, featuring different types of wood, finishes, binding, etc? It would be extremely helpful for those of us (like me) that only have about 40 years left on earth.
Well done. There are certainly in-betweens, too. I’ve got a Custom Shop Strat in Sonic Blue with a “Journeyman” relic job - not a shouty, heavy-relic (though I also like those). You likely wouldn’t notice the guitar was relic’d from across a room, but the scraped neck, the fine finish checking, the accelerated wear factor of the thin Nitro and how it reacts to skin… It’s killer where it matters - up close, in my hands.
I would make a distinction between performance enhancement (rounding/wooling the neck) and relic (aesthetic "blemishes"/aging etc)..
Why I’m not watching this video and it’s ridiculous premise.
I just purchased one of your courses… thank you for the invite, discount and everything I love about this channel. Blessings to you and your family … enjoy this Independence Day everyone 🙌🏻🫡🇺🇸
I bought a used Roadworn 2003 MIM Telecaster. Plays great & sounds great for me a bass player. My 1997 Custom Shop Jazz '60s Relic "Cunetto" is in the first Relic series in Basses. Just like it was when I bought it.
*checks date* oh wait this isn’t a joke
Good tone is no joke brother
@@RhettShullmore scratches = more toan
It's funny the mental gymnastics people do to claim "relic guitars are better". I don't know which group makes better gymnasts, the relic crowd, or the tonewood crowd.
There’s absolutely no “mental gymnastics” with me.
A Fender Custom Shop Relic is (realistically) as close as I will ever get to having the best guitar I ever played. That best guitar was a 1953 Telecaster that I played once in 1992. The store wanted $10,000 for that guitar and knew I couldn’t afford it, but the owner still asked me if I wanted to play it.
It’s everything I have wanted in a guitar since, and I also fell in love with the amp I played it through (an original tweed Champ).
The first Custom Shop Relic Nocaster I ever saw (three years later) was $7,500 less expensive and absolutely close enough to the real thing to satisfy me. However, at that time I couldn’t afford the Custom Shop Nocaster either.
Today, the Custom Shop Relics are around $5,000 (although you can find used ones close to the 1995 price) and an original 1953 Telecaster is closer to $50,000.
I think the mental gymnastics for most people go as far as "I like it" - all the way until someone else decides that it's somehow their business to challenge that preference and demand that it has a justification.
@bkmeahan “a fool and his money are easily parted”
@@charlesbolton8471 So have you been able to get a Custom Shop to scratch that itch!? Curious minds want to know 😎
The do look "cool".... But when you look at guitars owned by the biggest bad-ass guitar players out there, none of them look as beat up as the relics. (Even Keith Richards old Tele or Sex Pistols guitars look less "road worn").
There is a company called RUF who use a manmade material called RUFFAINE to make their guitars - and what makes it special is that - RUFFAINE can be altered to mimic any density of wood - so that you can custom make any sound profile you want. I would argue that the coating of a guitar has very little to do with the actual sound - and that the most important is the pickups on electric guitars. There is a resonance and sustain profile - but it is small as well. The next in impact are the strings that are used. And then the material. AND if you are focused on the feel of the instrument - why not get an unpainted partscaster ? $5000 for a relic Guitar - is a placebo effect. It places the idea that someone played the hell out of an instrument so it must be seriously good sounding. And it might be seriously good sounding - but I think it comes more from the pickups than anything else.
Density itself has less to do with resonance than stiffness by about three to one. Isaac Newton did a deal of research on that subject.
Link, or how can I find the video at about 5:28 on how to roll fretboard edges and sand down the gloss on the back of the neck? Got enough of it to know which sand paper & steel wool, but would love to see the whole video, as I have at least a few (project/cheapie) guitars on which I’d like to try this.
People getting upset over relic guitars is by far worse than owning one. If its not your thing, just don't buy one lol pretty simple.
Agreed,it’s a bit silly but still mildly entertaining to watch.
Its like pineapple on pizza intolerance Gestapo.
What other people want on their OWN pizza is up to them.
Free market is a beautiful thing. Some people forget that.
I love pineapple on pizza, but if someone doesn’t like it that’s fine too…
The best guitars have been well-played AND CARED FOR. Some of my own guitars that are 50 to 60 years old were purchased new, had the hell played out of them, but were wiped down and put away in the case. I’ve needed refretting a time or two, have honest neck and body wear, naturally “rolled” fingerboard edges, but very few dings or missing finish. Wearing the paint off of your guitar was never cool - it’s just ignorant to destroy your valuable instrument - especially in the name of relic’ing it. It’s like taking a pretty girl and giving her acne and rotten teeth to artificially age her - a really bad idea.
I got a custom shop masterbuild last year, the Blungeon. Ordered it before the prices went up. Custom shop guitars now cost what I paid for the masterbuild. This guitar made me a better player all around.
I love the feel of a broken-in/relic'ed neck... and I agree, I don't know that I want to wait 40 years to achieve that, so I'm game to get a head start on breaking in the wood.
My number 1 guitar is a 1959 custom shop Fender Strat with High Relic. Plays like it's 50 years old and it's super smooth for my hands. I get people that want to do it themselves but for anyone that has never tried a reliced guitar I highly recommend it
I wasn't a fan until I played one. Went into Coda Music to try some guitars, played a relic guitar and was instantly converted. Walked out with a CS Jazzmaster
I can’t wait for the Internet to explode over this (I’m with you Rhett)
Ginger get the popcorn!
Ka-Boom !!!
Yesterday I was worried because I accidentally made a tiny scratch on my vintera telecaster 's headstock but now it's ok thanks to this video 😉
I just think it's cool that custom shops exist at all. Because it means when *YOU* spend *YOUR* money, *YOU* can get what *YOU* want. Down to the last detail -- as long as you're willing to pay for it. And to hell with what other people think -- they are not spending your money. Let them spend their money on what they want.
I personally wouldn't get something that has that much wear on it -- but that's just my opinion. However, I *do* like the idea of making the neck and fretboard feel worn in, because it does play better. I'm sure if someone wanted to, they could get the custom shop to "relic" only the neck and fretboard like that, while leaving the body of the guitar looking brand new.
I just don't get why people are judgy about something they're not paying for. Let people spend their own money the way they see fit.
I agree Rhett. Less fear of scratching or denting frees me up to play them. I typically prefer the feel. Maybe I’m too nice to the new ones. I’m also 56 years old. I’m not going to see 60 more years of natural aging in my bar gigs. Finally, you get vintage feel, better reliability at a tenth of vintage cost.
Nope
Yep
@@RhettShull That "relic" exposes more Toan Would, doesn't it?
Glad this weeks post is non controversial! 😂
I bought a ‘66 Telecaster in the late 80’s that was truly worn in. No finish on the back of the neck, checking, dings, chipped, worn, rust, stains etc. Have no idea if it was all real?
Part of the reason I bought it…REGARDLESS, I wasn’t the one who had put those miles on the guitar! That guitar had a whole life before I got it. I didn’t feel bad for playing it, or guilty for not being the one who put the miles on.
In that same time period people were already making their guitars less pretty (think PUNK ROCK), abusing the finish, adding stickers, taking the finish off, routing the “wrong” pickups into the “wrong” guitars.
SRV, Eddie Van Halen, Joe Strummer and countless others fucked up their guitars on purpose, with purpose or just ‘cause!
I think relics can be very cool. FYI, I would never look at that Tele and think it’s a real ‘52.
I love relicd guitars man. I sort of get the guys who say wear in your own guitar. HOWEVER, screw that. I didn't relic that old ass sg I got at a guitar sale.... I bought it cuz it looked cool as hell. That's all you need.
A relic guitar is posing. It didnt earn the damage nor does it have stories to tell. Its simply posing.
Earn the damage, looool!!!
This is factually incorrect. I guess if you buy a John Mayer strat it's so everyone will believe you play like John Mayer? You're projecting your own feelings of insecurity and imposter syndrome on everyone else. There are pros that play relic'ed instruments, and they play thousands of hours on stage. Grow up.
@@dezertson2011 tell yourself whatever you have to hear to make it thru the day. But I am curious, are you so ate up that you keep your "relic'd" guitar in a case so it doesn't get scratched for that is the pinnacle of asinine.
@@chopdoc11 I don’t have any relic guitars.
No guitar tells stories and there's nothing romantic about bumps, scrapes and scratches accumulated over time. It just means the owner's been clumsy or careless.
I hate seeing a wall of relic'd guitars that are all relic'd identically.
FYI, dried Nitrocellulose, itself, is NOT toxic, nor does it have an odor, but the solvents and some of the modifiers used in the lacquer can be.
Yup. I’m with you. I only own 1 relic Fender Custom Shop and I bought it for the color. It has very light relic job. I would love to order a custom shop Fender where only the neck is reliced and the body and hardware is like new. Guitarists need to lighten up as a whole. It’s a luxury item and we use disposable income to buy them. There’s no reason to get upset over how other musicians spend their money.
Agreed. The anti-relic crowd thinks it’s about deceiving people into thinking you bought a new shiny guitar and played the crap out of it for years to make it look aged, when it’s not about that at all. It’s a way to get the feel and character of a VINTAGE (as in already old and worn when you first come across it) guitar, without having to actually buy a 5 to 6 figure (and often high-maintenance) vintage instrument
My Gibson has been played hard for 35 years and yeah, the gold is worn from the hardware from where my hand and arm go and there is a couple minor dings and the finish is yellowed. But it doesn't look abused like these reliced guitars. I want my old guitar to look new, and not a new guitar to look old.
You can buy vintage guitars that are actually broken in for a LOT cheaper than that. I have a 40 year old Ibanez with real, actual battle scars that I got for $500. There are plenty of well-loved guitars from the 70s and 80s that will run you less than a grand and will be unbelievably better value than these brand new, fake looking $5000 fenders and Gibsons
Fake wear is the stupidest concept that's EVER been introduced to the world. What a part of FAKE Don't you get?
The orangey tint on the maple necks give away many of the reliced instruments. The necks on reliced guitars, when done right feel amazingly comfortable and are the best features on the relics.
We need that meme format with the bell curve where the guys on the edges are saying "just buy a guitar you like and play it" and the guy in the center is making this video.
You could have Fender and Gibson save a lot of money by not painting the guitar at all and then Rhett will be happy.
What I find funny is that Jimmy Page's #1 Les Paul has been extensively toured around the world and been around for 50+ years, yet it looks nowhere near the "heavy relic" we see on some of these instruments today. I've never seen a touring player have a guitar that looks as heavily reliced as that Tele. SRV's Strat wasn't even that beat. Fact is, most people would have had a guitar that looks like that Tele resprayed at some point, just because it protects the wood and the guitars start to look beat.
I think most players know this. A lot of vintage examples are not that worn in as some heavy reliced guitars we get it… it’s just a feel thing and to me is a form of art on instruments.
@@potterman83 I can appreciate that. Enjoy what you do. I just find the bare wood going a bit too far.
I completely agree with you Rhett, I have evolved into a relic fan because of the feeling of a old friend when I play my relic’d Strat
I like the oiled neck idea. That seems to be the part that makes you comfortable. Making the finish on the body of the guitar to look like it survived an inferno doesn't add a thing for me.
The oiled and roasted maple neck on the Fender American Ultra has an insanely great feel for a production guitar. It just smells horrible to me 😂
I waited to finish the video before I went to comment. I still respectfully disagree. I think the difference is negligible. If the feel of a guitar is the deciding factor for whether or not it’s worth the premium of relicing then I would have to say it’s not worth it. As long as a guitar is built properly, has decent hardware and is set up properly, I think fixating on the feel is reading too much into it. To that end the point of relicing to me is mostly aesthetic and therefore imo goes back to the argument samurai guitarist brought up about “stolen valor”
The idea that how a guitar feels in your hands isn’t important is pretty crazy.
Good points. Really his argument about how it 'feels' is more how someone feels playing it which is all based on the looks of it as very little that a relic job actually does affects how a guitar plays. I do think there is a common theme with relic clothing in that one reason someone would want pre-ripped or stained pants/shoes etc is we don't want to wear other people's used clothing. In my experience most fans of relic guitars can't stand the idea if playing an old used guitar with lots of wear unless it is a vintage collectible which most of them can't afford to buy. It is a cool factor which is fine we all 'eat with our eyes' most of the time but on some level to me it feels like Chibson's for a different crowd of player
@@stevewhite8178I’m not talking about playability or the size/shape of the guitar. Rhett is talking about something more nuanced that the average guitar player won’t/can’t notice.
"My middle-aged ass looks so much cooler when a grungy, dinged-up guitar is hanging in my office than a shiny new one that I obviously never play".
Pre-ripped jeans? That’s all I buy!
On the topic of guitars though, I was never a relic fan until recently. I bought the EVH ’78 Eruption model - now I know it’s a “cheap” relic from Mexico but I adore it, the dings and worn through bits, and the smooth neck is stunning! It’s also a lot nicer (IMO) to play than the shiny Stripe series. I’ll never be able to afford a Custom Shop relic, but the Mike McCready Strat is high on my list as it looks awesome and I bet it feels even better.
Completely agree about the neck Rhett, and it’s great to see modern solutions. But the body relicing is purely aesthetic. That said, that Tele looks so cool.
I switched to satin and raw necks a while back and then satin finishes on the entire guitar. Now that feel is hard to get away from so I totally get it. Very inviting to play a little more often and definitely not worried about a ding or scratch. I am going to try a little less expensive guitar in full relic mode and then we’ll see how it goes. Great video!
Any link for the video where the Luthier shows how to relic ?
Im not a super fan of pre relic’ed guitars but i do get what your saying. I bought a fender thinline from a luthier shop. Was a half hollow with seymour p90s and gibson style bridge and stop tail. It was clean. During a show i experienced that sticky neck situation which had not come up before. Man it was terrible- like glue . So i steel wooled it and it made it dull looking but made the neck very smooth feeling and took away the sticky syndrome. To me that was a great fix. Just tape the ends first to get a nice look
I had an early Fender "Time Machine" series '56 Stratocaster, it was a great guitar, played and sounded super. I played a really early Vince Cunetto reliced Telecaster that a friend had and it was pretty nice too. Though I don't currently own one I am all for anybody buying a well made relic guitar, some of the DIY jobs I've seen can be pretty hideous though. Nice video, thanks for posting.
An interesting discussion. I was against relic’d guitars until recently when I tried and subsequently bought a Murphy Lab ‘59, swiftly followed by a ‘56 gold top with P90s. I absolutely agree that it’s not just how they look but also how they feel. I think a big part of the argument, especially for the Murphy Lab models (and possibly Fender too) is that the guitars that end up relic’d have been specifically chosen for features such as lightness and overall quality. I agree that a cheaper guitar with an aged neck will probably feel marginally nicer to play than one with a thick poly finish, but the feel of a Murphy Lab LP compared to a factory ‘standard’ is like night and day. It’s not just the relic’ing but the standard of the guitar before the process even begins.
As a non-guitar playing, long time multi genre music lover,…I sure enjoy your channel Rhett. Often learn stuff …good to keep this old guys brain cells moving! Keep up the good work.👏
I kinda half agree with your point here. I have a Sire Marcus Miller V9 5-String Bass that came with rolled fretboard edges and a "raw wood" style neck finish out of the box. Just like your newer Powers Electric. From my experience with that bass, I think that if your guitar already has those elements of a rolled, smoother neck feel and contoured right arm area; the familiarity that comes from aging has more to do with your hands than it does the instrument. My hands have adapted to play that bass and because of the years spent with it, it feels better to me than something I just picked up. My first bass I ever got when I was 12 (which by this point would have that smoothed over neck after about a decade of playing it) also has a natural familiarity to it that I snap back to whenever I pick it up. (Also a testament to the insane quality of Squire basses) A lot of people scoff at the purely cognitive "placebo" differences in guitars. However as you say, if you feel better on it, you'll play better on it. If you play better on it, you'll sound better on it. So, who cares?
Thanks Rhett. I'm squarely in the non-relic camp but you make excellent points here. BTW...I would love to see you do a review on that Powers Electric guitar. Almost no reviews out there for it and that one has caught my interest. Very curious about how good that tremolo (vibrato) system actually is. Thanks man - love your videos!
Thanks! Im planning on doing a video about the Powers, I didnt pay for it so I wont do a straight ahead review, but its a super cool guitar that deserves a video.