I watch these repeatedly as case studies for my self. Ice T stood up to the world and held up thru the ambushes he faced on here and Oprah and Arsenio Hall defending HipHop. He will always be one of my favorites.
@billyb6001 He didn't give instructions Is Holloween, Chucky,Jason, and Freddy instructions. How about Training Day, The Godfather and Casino. How about Summer of Sam or Hannibal. If your going to get on one man Go at every single negative image you see. Or else your full of shhh.
I'll happily co-sign that yep i'll take 1994's explicit lyrics over the crap thats out now this broadcast was around the time when i was promoted to my sophmore year in high school even back then i never thought that Hip Hop/Rap as a genre would go to crap within 20 years...
streetgangs Every generation has shit music. You just gotta find the good shit. I prefer punk over anything and, sure it's rare at times to see somethin good, but they there. On top of that even rap has its stuff. Like lot of people think Tyler the Creator is good, just limits himself. You ain't findin the classics cause you ain't lookin hard enough for one to become a classic. Jesus that mentality is stupid.
Yep. This music wasn't made with minors in mind. Especially not middle class white youth who are rap's biggest audience. If you don't like something, it's your job as a parent to supervise & teach your kids it's wrong...not the job of consenting, tax-paying adults to censor themselves.
gods son its the parent's job to raise the kids not not rap rock media in general. It's the parents job to raise the kids. Even if they have long hours they still need to have the mental capability to raise their kids.
Ice got under his skin while he was portraying a character of coolness and calmness. During the discussion the reverend was exposed!!! It just goes to show everyone has an agenda. A flower is most beautiful in its full bloom with its roots in tact, and what do we do as humans? We pick it, cutting off its oxygen and life source. This man is to the black community what a weed wacker is to a rose...
Ice-T is a free speech first amendment legend. His name should be forever in the history books for being on the right side of history and fighting for Americans to retain the rights we do have. He shut down everyone on this panel, with class & smooth grace.
Censoring lyrics isn't helping anyone. We don't get to censor our everyday reality, so why should the fans get a watered down version of it? Parents: supervise your kids and stop expecting society to do your job for you. Not everything is meant for kids.
Ice T represented himself very well and every point he made was accurate. What I do not understand is that people are so hard on the lyrical content of music in the hip hop community but not in the movie industry. The most violent movies came out those days. Arnold swartzeneger was the terminator and have become the California Governor...How? You had Rambo...You had Freddy Cougar, etc. No one condemned these movies like this. No one. Heck. These movies were approved to come onto national TV on a weekend when kids are at home waiting for it to come on. I think that their is a problem with that.
To be fair, films were subjected to a similar censorship 'war' in the 80's an early 90's (The horror genre went through hell during this time period). In fact it was a more successful campaign than the one waged against HipHop (or rock n roll/metal before it). If anything, this supports the idea that in fact the powers that be ALLOWED gangsta rap to take it's toll on both hiphop culture and the elements of society that allowed themselves to be negatively influenced by it. Was this part of a deeper racist agenda? Perhaps.... There's a strong argument that Gangsta Rap was the perfect antidote to the politics of Public Enemy etc. and the POSITIVE influence such artists threatened to impose on a wider scale. Were films more doggedly policed because they threatened to impact on a wider (non black) cross section of society? Depends how much you're into conspiracy theories really......
Back then, as a 45yr old brother to this day, it still saddens me. Our elders/leaders wanted us to "fall in line" like they did or do what they feel/felt we should be doing as to not "make waves or too much noise."
All of the talk at the end about ‘finding common ground’ and ‘removing the negativity’ is another example of a clergyman undeservedly assuming for himself a higher moral position. How dare he suggest Ice-T needs to monitor and regulate his lyrics? Would he be willing to have a reciprocal relationship? What if Ice-T wanted to redact the parts of the Bible that are violent, racist, sexist or homophobic? Would he be willing to ‘find common ground’ there? It’s a disgraceful attitude. No man is good enough to be another man’s censor.
This was a very eye opening discussion coming from the era in which they were speaking of. I was an underage youth listening to 6 in the morning EVERY MORNING as I got ready for school. I was underage following Uncle Luke and NWA all across the United States. But I was also a little girl getting beat daily and molested by my supposed to be father...... These records GAVE ME STRENGTH and made me feel like I wasn't the only one in the world messed up.
"He's saying I want to see you out of business, and I'm saying I want to see you out of business. Because I'm from the streets and that's how we play. Straight up." Real talk
I grew up in this era. Ice T was my first favorite artist. He always had a positive moral to his raps… luckily we had such variety of styles to listen to. One style wasn’t the standard till mid late 90s. Money really ruins most art forms when it becomes the sole focus. The big corporations are to blame for making gangstersism and non conscious music the standard. The soul of hip hop was sold long ago. Much respect to Ice T
I was born in the 90's but I love Ice-T, he's like my O.G and you are right about him, he always had a message in his music, a message to ''think twice''. He will always be one of my Faves. His raps were deep and he was fearless with it. Only a few rappers I respect, and he is one.
24:20 Calvin Butts and Ice T BOTH expose the REAL problem. The problem isn't the music itself. The problem is controlling the availability of the music to certain audiences. If a rapper clearly states that he makes pornographic music, why is that music so easily accessible? MONEY is the problem. It's all about how the music is promoted and distributed.
Attacking hardcore rappers, or any artist who paints an accurate picture of society, is like 'shooting the messenger'. It makes about as much sense as trying to stop someone from saying, "people all over the world are starving." Saying it, does not necessarily perpetuate it! In this example; the critic's efforts would be better spent, trying to combat hunger, not telling someone to hush up about it.. No matter the problem, you can't solve it if you aren't ready & willing to face, head-on. Street art is ready. It's been ready for half a century! Street art is helping to identify problems.. If Rev so n' so wants to help people, who are the victims of poverty and oppression, he needs to soak-in that street art, not try to hush it up. Because that's the first step.. You can't fight an enemy that you haven't even attempted to understand. And a thorough understanding will only come from taking in all available information, not just the information which happens to appeal to your own sensibilities.. The true enemy is poverty and oppression, and those who perpetuate it, obviously.. And there are a lot of good people in the church, who want to help. But, make no mistake, the church itself has only ever been interested in helping itself.. You gotta be careful.. Anytime someone offers to help: be careful! Be sure their intentions are genuine. Because there are a lot of people who see charity and community-building, as the fast-track to fame and power...devils who hide their leathery wings, and wear halos..
have to give props to the host for getting on Calvin Butts "why didn't you attack this issue with anyone else, you could have called me for this at any time", and the woman beside him as well I'll give props to for being a great mediator and being real about what the media actually does
I was 21 years old in 1993 , and I was LOVING gangster rap music, lol, bumpin it in my CAR everyday , I was born the same year as TUPAC (1971), So I related to the RAPPERS of the 90s 100% , simply because they were all in my age bracket
To me Ice was a lousy rapper and actor. Selling drugs to further degrade the community and pimping women total character flaws to me. He would be dead by now if he didn't calm down.
Never mentions his army record, never hear him mention it in all these years, honorable discharge, figured he'd be proud if that but I guess it goes against his image of bucking the system.
This is about censorship, plain & simple. No group or race can control all its members. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. The more you denounce something, the more people want to see what it's about. Particularly rebellious kids. "Elvis the Pelvis" was considered obscene in the '50s. Then rap. Now these songs seem tame. These conservative old fogies are focusing on lyrics while kids are being raped, abused & murdered every day. Why not tackle poverty, police brutality, the prison-industrial complex, poor education, gentrification or some other issue that ACTUALLY harms children? It's easy to focus on the superficial stuff; what's hard is tackling the systemic evils of society. No politician or religious "leader" seems to want to do that.
17:54 Great point from Ice here. Religion takes in billions of dollars, pays no tax and there’s always an underlying assumption that religion is good and moral.
Not really. Honestly I respect there dude but he couldn't presented his side better if he kept his cool, and I don't think either side are fools by any stretch. All of them had good points, except maybe Cynthia. She obviously is aware of a wide range of hip-hop artists but her perception of them doesn't really scratch the surface, and is skewed towards what she presents in her magazine. When she was talking about Hiero, I seriously cringed a bit.
What people like Calvin Butts and that lady Coral fail to realize is that the more they speak out against rappers like Ice T, the more records they sale. People become more intrigued.
TUPAC, RAKIM, BIG DADDY KANE, KRS ONE, KOOL G RAP, EPMD, NWA, ONYX, NAUGHTY BY NATURE, REDMAN, PETE ROCK and CL SMOOTH, K SOLO, SMITH N WESSON, BUCK SHOT, DAS EFX, BRAND NUBIAN, DA BOSS, X CLAN, CHUBB ROCK, PUBLIC ENEMY, FAT JOE, CYPRESS HILL, ICECUBE, DA YOUNGSTAZ, MAIN SOURCE, LORD FINESS, MC LYTE, SHOW BIZ and AG, LEADERS OF THE NEW SCHOOL, TRIBE CALLED QUEST, and WUTANG CLAN were all out and poppin in 1993 as well .
Just now seeing this absolutely awesome debate! I got on the Hip Hop train in the late 70's and took the nationwide tour. It was new and exciting! It gave me a Visual & Vigorus connection with my aboriginal Brothers and Sisters. I experienced a heightened level of geographical awareness that We, the original peoples are powerful and flourishing. Broadcasting our 'Message' from the streets. I stand with Ice-T 💯 %
Pastor Butts made the case for everybody including Rap Artist taking responsibility for our young people. He showed maturity, calmness, and constructive dialouge without personal attacks.
Nice respectability politics there. These conservative fogies are focusing on lyrics while kids are being raped, abused & murdered every day. Why not tackle poverty, the prison-industrial complex, poor education, gentrification or some other issue that ACTUALLY harms children? It's easy to focus on the superficial stuff; what's hard is tackling the systemic evils of society. No politician or religious "leader" seems to want to do that.
I grew out of my "gangsta" rap phase as i grew into an adult. I never thought i'd agree with someone from a church but i can agree with what the pastor is saying here. The record companies take advantage of the vulnerabilities of black culture in america and elsewhere; they knew popular rap music that draws the kids increasingly more violent appealing to and inspiring the lowest human natures. The whole " bad boy" thing is appealing when you're young and angry and impressionable and stuff. I know i was... The most creative and constructive hip hop has rarely pulled crowds or tops the charts. The closest it ever came to that was with Tupac...but he was a huge contradiction. The media and record companies monopolized on and shaped a generation of (mostly) black kids to fund their market. Take a look at how chart rap is now,, it's promoting materialism, misogyny, violence and crime life more than ever and even without poetry or talent. They won.
You mean the parents can't raise their kids so they have to come to the rappers??? I mean, these are parents that shouldn't be having kids in the first damn place since they themselves are adolescents...
38:50 she had a Freudian slip and said nobody's fault. Then caught herself an changed it to everyone's responsibility! She had it right the first time.
Mad love for Ice T That dude changed my world at 13 now at 38 I can see the world around me,has gotten , I'm not say better or worse, but I'd rather have my kids hearing ice, than gaga,bieber,young thug...ect
Look at Jay Z Puff Dre etc. Never thought that Hip Hop would take it this far. More blacks are closer to being billionaires never would of happened without hip hop
@@princerock4555 eh idk about that you got a lot more black ppl with degrees i guess but its still the same things high unemployment mass incarceration like what did integration really change that much a few millionare rappers owning their own businesses dont equal liberation for regular black people
@@emmanuelperilla2014 I get what you mean. We aren’t benefiting from celebrities success. I personally think it’s something that right wing media pushes to us so we don’t rise awareness about the financial state. Look at anytime a black person debates on the financial state of the black community or brown community they use some celebrity like jay z and go look at him why can’t you be him. This is never the case for the average white American they are never told be Bill gates and Jeff bezos.
@@princerock4555 Yeah they push those celebs like the hoods these same people come from arent in the same conditions as they always been. These same celebs will talk down on regular folks so idk why there put up as these black leaders or examples of black progress
Ice T, Jello Biafra, 2 Live Cookie Crew all got a hard time from Tipper Gore and her gang back in the day!....They stood up for the free speach of ALL artist! at their own expense...Respect!
@Roborav you should research before making such allegations what he stole was to obey is superiors he the military that ordered him to do it. Thats why he called it tactical adquiring.
(32:18) Ice-T: " _Can anybody [up here] define profanity to me_ ?" That's actually a very deep question. It's too bad this panel didn't dive into that, because I think it would've been the gateway to some common ground/action.
7:50... I can stop listening right there when Ice said the fact that their parents are lousy isn't my fault.. He owned them........ I get so sick of people telling rappers and other people who didn't ask for the job that they have to be positive role models for kids with lousy parents.... NO THEY DON'T..........Ice t had and still does have his own life.... God allows each man to choose his path whether negative or positive so that at the end of that man's life he can't blame anyone but himself for how ever it ended......... If a person who doesn't want to be positive does it, people will smell the fakeness and he will be unable to reach anyone because those who did love him will say he is a hypocrit...
This debate has aged well - as we are still struggling with these questions, to this day; was he right??? was Ice T? does Ice T even 'still' feel the same way about all of this?
Black Envy and Jelousy The Rev said he was trying to "Cut Off" Ice Ts money. So that lets us All know what time it is with that dude. He's not trying to cut of the Corporations who produced the urban poetry but the money of another Black man because of his jealousy and envy. If you don't lile the music dont listen to it. Attempting to demonize the Corporations and artists dis not work
I moved to New York in 1989. I lived in Crown Heights Brooklyn . Crack was hitting the hood. Nobody in society was doing anything about it. There 3 crack houses in my side of the street and a bunch of empty buildings. I was unable to understand how some rappers talked about their Fancy Cars, Diamonds and Money. It was hard to see how that helped the bunch of kids that lived in my block. The struggle was real for all of US and I really never give Fick of what he had about his Diamonds Cars and Money. I was more concern about hope. Other than that. I traveled a lot and realized that we all have a story to tell. The hood Cleaned up I bough the house 10 years later and saw some of the kids to grow and do well and others get lost. Rap had nothing to do with the Results. I opened my mind once I assimilated the American Culture as of whole. I love that we finally found a way to communicate without filters.
Gangs, street violence, drugs, crime, the objectification of women, the use of the N-word, the breakdown of the family unit, all of this was all happening before gangsta rap even existed. Which means gangsta rap was never the root of our community's problems. It was merely a symptom. So much of this convo's focus was on fighting the symptom and not the disease. Cynthia Horner, as well as one of the callers, touched on this but their points were mostly ignored by the rest of the table and were never fully discussed.
I’m a 39 year old man now, & I’m one of those suburban white boys who had my fragile little mind warped and poisoned by Ice-T and his dangerous self expression. The people on this panel seem hilariously behind the culture. Afraid of what they don’t understand. Rap was newer back then, & it was easy for them to take cheap shots. There’s an element of racism here too, of course. The panel knows they’ll get a pat on the head for saying bad things about rap.
My point addressed the idea that personally held religious beliefs are of no use to the world at large. People in the clergy ARE capable of good ideas when they step into the secular world with the rest of us.
Michael Steven Martin MLK, Malcolm X and Vincent Peale Drew their ideology from their religious/faith traditions as well as some others. Malcolm X whole contextual framework was borne out of the religious traditions he was reared in his whole adult life. Kings non violent approach was borne out of Biblical interpretation and Gandhi's religious philosophy Muhammad Ali who basically set off the antiwar and conscientious objector movement did so purely out of his religious convictions, period. You can't separate the two no matter how hard you try.
Listening to the clergy has greatly enhanced the secular world. From the Red Cross to hospitals to schools elevating education levels world wide. The fairy tale statement is correct problem is folks think evolution isn’t fairy tale when it is. Listening to the clergy greatly transformed many peoples' behavior for the better. Mike....do your homework before commenting in the presence of your elders.
Thank God major news outlets stopped interviewing Rappers about Lyrics. Who would speak intelligently for the culture now? It would be a bunch of mumble rappers high on pills and lean talking crazy....I'm glad I was born when I was born. Shout out to Ice-T, Public Enemy, KRS-1, Brand Nubian, X-Clam, Ice Cube, etc.
Do people really understand the impact and value of Ice T, Colors and the Movie itself? Do we really understand the impact and importance that he is and did for HipHop!?! Love that man Tracy now while we still got him people. Show him honors and love now!
Haha Ice-T OG the Iceburg laid it down. The music/artists aint the cause the shit's been/is going on already. If you're a parent of a child that hears/watches something and then goes does it or who strangers have more influence over than themselves.....they are no Parents!
I normally like Ice Ts logic and arguments but his arguments in this interview are poorly presented. I guess he polished his position as he got older. I like how the Rev steered this toward being positive discourse.
I grew up listening to hardcore rap & heavy metal from the late 80s and 90s and those days had the best music.. Ice T and the Reverend both have very good valid points, Ice T is simply being real because he grew up and lived that type of life that he is rapping about. These rap albums have parental explicit warnings, parents choose to allow or not allow their kids to listen to this music. Most people aren't far off the ledge to do what he's rapping about, he's rapping about bitches, hustling, pimpin, and slinging that iron.. If he's living that type of life and he's real and sharing his story of how he's living there's nothing wrong with that. Freedom of speech is a right, it's that simple. For those people who want to listen to this types of songs it's up to them. Like he said, Richard Pryor and Redd Foxx both have comedy gigs where they are using vulgar language, movies show tits and ass, curse words etc. But these shows aren't intended for children audience to view, it's that simple... As far as what the Reverend is explaining about morals he's right. There isn't any good lyrics in most rap and heavy metal music , let's be honest, now if you want to listen to some great music that has a great message for family and loved ones listen to any type of country. Country music is the best!!!
It all starts at home with the parents teaching their kids. Just because I hear someone rapping about something don't make me want to do what they are rapping about just like I don't want to Rob a casino after watching oceans 11.
well I got good news and bad news for u Tracy....bad news is u wrong....good news is, it dont matter..... its not YOUR job to fix America and help people raise they kids....god blessed u with a gift, a talent...express yoself thru yo art form, get paid, feed yo family.....if a person is not smart enough to realize music is just entertainment, that's THEIR fault, not yours!!! if their parents can't tell them the difference between reality and entertainment... that's THEIR fault, not yours!!!
I try 2 tell these youngins respect the old school because they paved the way...Look at ice T fighting for most of these rappers future
I watch these repeatedly as case studies for my self. Ice T stood up to the world and held up thru the ambushes he faced on here and Oprah and Arsenio Hall defending HipHop. He will always be one of my favorites.
That Facts 💯🎯🎯
Telling them to kill other black men that get in their way
@billyb6001
He didn't give instructions
Is Holloween, Chucky,Jason, and Freddy instructions.
How about Training Day, The Godfather and Casino.
How about Summer of Sam or Hannibal.
If your going to get on one man Go at every single negative image you see. Or else your full of shhh.
Look at our community, we it worth it?
I rather have 1993's negative lyrics rather than 2016's lyrics. It just got worse.
amen
I'll happily co-sign that yep i'll take 1994's explicit lyrics over the crap thats out now this broadcast was around the time when i was promoted to my sophmore year in high school even back then i never thought that Hip Hop/Rap as a genre would go to crap within 20 years...
streetgangs Every generation has shit music. You just gotta find the good shit. I prefer punk over anything and, sure it's rare at times to see somethin good, but they there. On top of that even rap has its stuff. Like lot of people think Tyler the Creator is good, just limits himself. You ain't findin the classics cause you ain't lookin hard enough for one to become a classic. Jesus that mentality is stupid.
streetgangs lol
Current rap is inaudible mumbling covered with overproduced sound, probably to hide the fact that no one can come up with no brilliant rhymes no more.
I agree with Ice-T, Parents need to raise their damn kids or they shouldn't be having kids in the first place... Don't blame rap music...
exactly.
Yep. This music wasn't made with minors in mind. Especially not middle class white youth who are rap's biggest audience. If you don't like something, it's your job as a parent to supervise & teach your kids it's wrong...not the job of consenting, tax-paying adults to censor themselves.
gods son its the parent's job to raise the kids not not rap rock media in general. It's the parents job to raise the kids. Even if they have long hours they still need to have the mental capability to raise their kids.
gods son and if they can't do that they shouldn't be parents
Avenue Of The Stars and he was a orphan thats really saying something
HATING AT IT'S HIGHEST DEGREE: Rev Butts told Ice-T "I'm trying to cut off your money!"
I AGREE! LOL SAD, BUT FUNNY.
Let his guard down for a second and showed his true agenda right there
Ice got under his skin while he was portraying a character of coolness and calmness. During the discussion the reverend was exposed!!! It just goes to show everyone has an agenda. A flower is most beautiful in its full bloom with its roots in tact, and what do we do as humans? We pick it, cutting off its oxygen and life source. This man is to the black community what a weed wacker is to a rose...
*Damn. Straight.* Seriously! *smmfh...*
Not hating just keeping it real
Ice-T is a free speech first amendment legend. His name should be forever in the history books for being on the right side of history and fighting for Americans to retain the rights we do have. He shut down everyone on this panel, with class & smooth grace.
Hate these fools. Trying to pass the responsibility of being parents onto Ice-T....its not his job to raise YOUR kids.
Nothing better than a civil healthy debate! Everyone was respectful for the most part, no shouting over each other. Well done
Censoring lyrics isn't helping anyone. We don't get to censor our everyday reality, so why should the fans get a watered down version of it?
Parents: supervise your kids and stop expecting society to do your job for you. Not everything is meant for kids.
they might as well censor the fucking news hahaha worse shit comes from the news!!
Censorship is a cowards way period!!! Don’t talk about everything that’s wrong, let’s just be quiet about it and hope it goes away..... Yeah right!!!!
yup. it really is that SIMPLE!
Butts was very articulate and held his own. Ice T was the right rapper for this. The panel was a good panel all around, however.
Ice T represented himself very well and every point he made was accurate. What I do not understand is that people are so hard on the lyrical content of music in the hip hop community but not in the movie industry. The most violent movies came out those days. Arnold swartzeneger was the terminator and have become the California Governor...How? You had Rambo...You had Freddy Cougar, etc. No one condemned these movies like this. No one. Heck. These movies were approved to come onto national TV on a weekend when kids are at home waiting for it to come on. I think that their is a problem with that.
To be fair, films were subjected to a similar censorship 'war' in the 80's an early 90's (The horror genre went through hell during this time period). In fact it was a more successful campaign than the one waged against HipHop (or rock n roll/metal before it). If anything, this supports the idea that in fact the powers that be ALLOWED gangsta rap to take it's toll on both hiphop culture and the elements of society that allowed themselves to be negatively influenced by it.
Was this part of a deeper racist agenda? Perhaps.... There's a strong argument that Gangsta Rap was the perfect antidote to the politics of Public Enemy etc. and the POSITIVE influence such artists threatened to impose on a wider scale.
Were films more doggedly policed because they threatened to impact on a wider (non black) cross section of society?
Depends how much you're into conspiracy theories really......
What’s funny is that Ice T today is saying the same thing Rev Butts and the women were saying in the video back then.
Hehe damn, Ice-T is losing his patience with a passion here. Going hard on that rev.
Fuck that Rev. He used the rappers for 15 minutes of fame yell
I thought he was about to lose his mind
Back then, as a 45yr old brother to this day, it still saddens me. Our elders/leaders wanted us to "fall in line" like they did or do what they feel/felt we should be doing as to not "make waves or too much noise."
That's the prussian school system brought by rockafeller to America to create a non thinking workforce that pays it's taxes until they die
I understand you. If that happened before them it wouldn’t have been a civil rights movement.
And many of the youth back then grew up to be the exact same elders….
Ice T was about to snap
All of the talk at the end about ‘finding common ground’ and ‘removing the negativity’ is another example of a clergyman undeservedly assuming for himself a higher moral position.
How dare he suggest Ice-T needs to monitor and regulate his lyrics? Would he be willing to have a reciprocal relationship? What if Ice-T wanted to redact the parts of the Bible that are violent, racist, sexist or homophobic? Would he be willing to ‘find common ground’ there? It’s a disgraceful attitude. No man is good enough to be another man’s censor.
This was a very eye opening discussion coming from the era in which they were speaking of. I was an underage youth listening to 6 in the morning EVERY MORNING as I got ready for school. I was underage following Uncle Luke and NWA all across the United States. But I was also a little girl getting beat daily and molested by my supposed to be father...... These records GAVE ME STRENGTH and made me feel like I wasn't the only one in the world messed up.
I'm sorry to hear that,
please NEVER give up and stay strong💪👍👍👍👍💪💪💪
You did the right thing listening to that tv-programm✨✨
"He's saying I want to see you out of business, and I'm saying I want to see you out of business. Because I'm from the streets and that's how we play. Straight up." Real talk
We're not against, rap, we're not against rappers, but we are against those THUGS, thugs, thugs.
He made that Bone intro a classic😂😂
Underrated comment 👏🏾 😂
I wonder if he received a royalty check
No he didn't 🤣
a classic line; then he burned up all those CD's - i'm actually tryin to find that speech (the original)
Super Classic. 💯
I remember recording this debate on vhs. I loved it. Was a big Ice T fan. Still am.
Was This on BET?
@@markasflood8196 yes it was
@@markasflood8196 WNYE Channel 31 in NYC.
“Oh you didn’t like that bathing suit.” 🤣
I noticed the older lady censured herself from profanity, but thought it was ok to say Niggas.
*****
I know enough to know that niggas is not a curse word is. Do you know what common sense is?
The 90's were a weird time.
Amerikkka has made nigga acceptable on any platform. Black folks being nice does nothing for white systematic supremacy. She overstands that too.
I grew up in this era. Ice T was my first favorite artist. He always had a positive moral to his raps… luckily we had such variety of styles to listen to. One style wasn’t the standard till mid late 90s.
Money really ruins most art forms when it becomes the sole focus. The big corporations are to blame for making gangstersism and non conscious music the standard. The soul of hip hop was sold long ago.
Much respect to Ice T
Money doesn't period weakness does
He’s a smart dude in the culture and the streets, he’s a seasoned veteran
I was born in the 90's but I love Ice-T, he's like my O.G and you are right about him, he always had a message in his music, a message to ''think twice''. He will always be one of my Faves. His raps were deep and he was fearless with it. Only a few rappers I respect, and he is one.
24:20 Calvin Butts and Ice T BOTH expose the REAL problem. The problem isn't the music itself. The problem is controlling the availability of the music to certain audiences. If a rapper clearly states that he makes pornographic music, why is that music so easily accessible? MONEY is the problem. It's all about how the music is promoted and distributed.
What a fascinating piece of history; I've never seen this before. Thank you for the upload!
Attacking hardcore rappers, or any artist who paints an accurate picture of society, is like 'shooting the messenger'. It makes about as much sense as trying to stop someone from saying, "people all over the world are starving." Saying it, does not necessarily perpetuate it! In this example; the critic's efforts would be better spent, trying to combat hunger, not telling someone to hush up about it.. No matter the problem, you can't solve it if you aren't ready & willing to face, head-on. Street art is ready. It's been ready for half a century! Street art is helping to identify problems.. If Rev so n' so wants to help people, who are the victims of poverty and oppression, he needs to soak-in that street art, not try to hush it up. Because that's the first step.. You can't fight an enemy that you haven't even attempted to understand. And a thorough understanding will only come from taking in all available information, not just the information which happens to appeal to your own sensibilities.. The true enemy is poverty and oppression, and those who perpetuate it, obviously.. And there are a lot of good people in the church, who want to help. But, make no mistake, the church itself has only ever been interested in helping itself.. You gotta be careful.. Anytime someone offers to help: be careful! Be sure their intentions are genuine. Because there are a lot of people who see charity and community-building, as the fast-track to fame and power...devils who hide their leathery wings, and wear halos..
*Damn!* THANK. YOU:-)!
have to give props to the host for getting on Calvin Butts "why didn't you attack this issue with anyone else, you could have called me for this at any time", and the woman beside him as well I'll give props to for being a great mediator and being real about what the media actually does
Sister Cynthia, her contribution is so sharpe. All these years, i never known of her, only the magazine.
Agreed
I was 21 years old in 1993 , and I was LOVING gangster rap music, lol, bumpin it in my CAR everyday , I was born the same year as TUPAC (1971), So I related to the RAPPERS of the 90s 100% , simply because they were all in my age bracket
To me Ice was a lousy rapper and actor. Selling drugs to further degrade the community and pimping women total character flaws to me. He would be dead by now if he didn't calm down.
How is pimping women and slinging drugs helping black ppl.
Ice -T was too real back then lol.
You ain’t got the answers! Thought he might throw the cup at him lol
Never mentions his army record, never hear him mention it in all these years, honorable discharge, figured he'd be proud if that but I guess it goes against his image of bucking the system.
Real dumb.
@@windinhishair3512 sup he should always bring it up to please you? Foh clown yell
@Roborav You really like to see the world as black and white.
Pastor actually said " He want to STOP his money" Ice Tea that's your Black Community for ya'
Majority of Pastor are DEVILS
Roborav Church Hoes !!!
This is about censorship, plain & simple. No group or race can control all its members. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. The more you denounce something, the more people want to see what it's about. Particularly rebellious kids. "Elvis the Pelvis" was considered obscene in the '50s. Then rap. Now these songs seem tame.
These conservative old fogies are focusing on lyrics while kids are being raped, abused & murdered every day. Why not tackle poverty, police brutality, the prison-industrial complex, poor education, gentrification or some other issue that ACTUALLY harms children? It's easy to focus on the superficial stuff; what's hard is tackling the systemic evils of society. No politician or religious "leader" seems to want to do that.
17:54 Great point from Ice here. Religion takes in billions of dollars, pays no tax and there’s always an underlying assumption that religion is good and moral.
Ice-T owned these fools
Not really. Honestly I respect there dude but he couldn't presented his side better if he kept his cool, and I don't think either side are fools by any stretch. All of them had good points, except maybe Cynthia. She obviously is aware of a wide range of hip-hop artists but her perception of them doesn't really scratch the surface, and is skewed towards what she presents in her magazine. When she was talking about Hiero, I seriously cringed a bit.
+jordanzish Edit: Cynthia does talk some sense later on though.
jordanzish Cynthia’s magazine right on, what did it have in it?
You're not too bright
He showed his ignorance
What people like Calvin Butts and that lady Coral fail to realize is that the more they speak out against rappers like Ice T, the more records they sale. People become more intrigued.
What’s funny is that Ice-T today is saying the same things Calvin Butts and lady coral was saying back then
@@TA-ht4jo maturity
@@TA-ht4jo Ice is in his 60s now. As Ralph the host said, it's a generational thing.
@@TA-ht4jo yea, 'life' matured him
Tupac should of been in this debate with ice t it would been deep
Kenny Jackson I agree
Tupac just came out. Sounds like this interview was 92 or 93.
Agree
@@Supremmo He was already out!
@@Supremmo it was 93. He already had his first album out and his second album came out this year.
ice-T schooled that one dude 😂😂
Ice T'z the biggest at the table.
Ice T is probably the smartest guy in the room. He may not have as many letters before his name. But that doesn't mean shit.
Definitely. And the realest
Greedy
Ice T was ahead of those times.
andre bell love ice T so real
TUPAC, RAKIM, BIG DADDY KANE, KRS ONE, KOOL G RAP, EPMD, NWA, ONYX, NAUGHTY BY NATURE, REDMAN, PETE ROCK and CL SMOOTH, K SOLO, SMITH N WESSON, BUCK SHOT, DAS EFX, BRAND NUBIAN, DA BOSS, X CLAN, CHUBB ROCK, PUBLIC ENEMY, FAT JOE, CYPRESS HILL, ICECUBE, DA YOUNGSTAZ, MAIN SOURCE, LORD FINESS, MC LYTE, SHOW BIZ and AG, LEADERS OF THE NEW SCHOOL, TRIBE CALLED QUEST, and WUTANG CLAN were all out and poppin in 1993 as well .
And Nortourious BIG
Just now seeing this absolutely awesome debate! I got on the Hip Hop train in the late 70's and took the nationwide tour. It was new and exciting! It gave me a Visual & Vigorus connection with my aboriginal Brothers and Sisters. I experienced a heightened level of geographical awareness that We, the original peoples are powerful and flourishing. Broadcasting our 'Message' from the streets. I stand with Ice-T 💯 %
Both the Pastor and Ice T have valid points. It’s Human nature to disagree and go about things in different directions.
You need to have Parental Gudience over these kids bottom line. Ice T is dope and he represents Hip-Hop..
Pastor Butts made the case for everybody including Rap Artist taking responsibility for our young people. He showed maturity, calmness, and constructive dialouge without personal attacks.
he proved to be a hole lot more polished than iceT here; ice should've listened a bit more
Nice respectability politics there. These conservative fogies are focusing on lyrics while kids are being raped, abused & murdered every day. Why not tackle poverty, the prison-industrial complex, poor education, gentrification or some other issue that ACTUALLY harms children? It's easy to focus on the superficial stuff; what's hard is tackling the systemic evils of society. No politician or religious "leader" seems to want to do that.
@@MsNooneinparticular They did. Do you know who these people are?
Black folks have been a door mat for amerikkka and you're intrigued by a pimp in a suit being cordial for publicity. Fools.
Wasn’t telling ice-t that he wants to stop him from getting money a personal attack?!!!!!
I grew out of my "gangsta" rap phase as i grew into an adult. I never thought i'd agree with someone from a church but i can agree with what the pastor is saying here. The record companies take advantage of the vulnerabilities of black culture in america and elsewhere; they knew popular rap music that draws the kids increasingly more violent appealing to and inspiring the lowest human natures. The whole " bad boy" thing is appealing when you're young and angry and impressionable and stuff. I know i was...
The most creative and constructive hip hop has rarely pulled crowds or tops the charts. The closest it ever came to that was with Tupac...but he was a huge contradiction. The media and record companies monopolized on and shaped a generation of (mostly) black kids to fund their market. Take a look at how chart rap is now,, it's promoting materialism, misogyny, violence and crime life more than ever and even without poetry or talent.
They won.
Samuel J Yeah man, I listen to rap all my life but Im 35. The elders are completly right in this conversation
Yeah I'm 40 now. And I realize what the record industry has done to the black community.
The pastor is completely right. There's nothing good in these lyrics
@@stevejuneau2395 Not true
Ice-T also agrees with the elders at that table because today, he’s saying the same things they were saying.
You mean the parents can't raise their kids so they have to come to the rappers??? I mean, these are parents that shouldn't be having kids in the first damn place since they themselves are adolescents...
38:50 she had a Freudian slip and said nobody's fault. Then caught herself an changed it to everyone's responsibility! She had it right the first time.
Mad love for Ice T
That dude changed my world at 13 now at 38 I can see the world around me,has gotten , I'm not say better or worse, but I'd rather have my kids hearing ice, than gaga,bieber,young thug...ect
Arnold lee Roth Popcough Bro its over the music industry has collapsed.
Ice-T seems like the most intelligent person in this group discussion.
trenchdigger,I agree,Ice-T is laughin' just holdin' it inside.
You must be joking
U gotta be phukin kiddin me
Not even close.
Certainly the most lived
Look at Jay Z Puff Dre etc. Never thought that Hip Hop would take it this far. More blacks are closer to being billionaires never would of happened without hip hop
Um no just a few blacks getting rich don't mean shit you talking about like one percent of the black community
@@emmanuelperilla2014 black community is thriving better than it has in the US since the early 60s
@@princerock4555 eh idk about that you got a lot more black ppl with degrees i guess but its still the same things high unemployment mass incarceration like what did integration really change that much a few millionare rappers owning their own businesses dont equal liberation for regular black people
@@emmanuelperilla2014 I get what you mean. We aren’t benefiting from celebrities success. I personally think it’s something that right wing media pushes to us so we don’t rise awareness about the financial state. Look at anytime a black person debates on the financial state of the black community or brown community they use some celebrity like jay z and go look at him why can’t you be him. This is never the case for the average white American they are never told be Bill gates and Jeff bezos.
@@princerock4555 Yeah they push those celebs like the hoods these same people come from arent in the same conditions as they always been. These same celebs will talk down on regular folks so idk why there put up as these black leaders or examples of black progress
I'm watching this in 2020.. & today Ice-T is the GOAT!!
Hell yeah!!!✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
2024 agreed O.G.
This video needs more views
Ice T, Jello Biafra, 2 Live Cookie Crew all got a hard time from Tipper Gore and her gang back in the day!....They stood up for the free speach of ALL artist! at their own expense...Respect!
The PMRC, indeed. That’s exactly what came to my mind when Ice T called Butts a Johnny Come Lately!
Great debate. The sister Cynthia is the real power in this debate, though she spoke less, but her contribution is MASSIVE !
The problem the Rev does not use the gospel for his stance. He does use Christ as a standard for his judgement
RIP Calvin Butts
"We're NOT against rap. We're NOT against rappers... but we are against those thugs!"
Ice T is a US Military Veteran and businessmen.
@Roborav
Not funny. Read his Bio, he is an Army Vet.
@Roborav you should research before making such allegations what he stole was to obey is superiors he the military that ordered him to do it.
Thats why he called it tactical adquiring.
Thats why he ran away because he wasn't going to be arrested over something his superiors ordered him to do
The same reason people like violent movies and video games. People like forbidden fruit. Simply because it's forbidden.
(32:18) Ice-T: " _Can anybody [up here] define profanity to me_ ?"
That's actually a very deep question.
It's too bad this panel didn't dive into that, because I think it would've been the gateway to some common ground/action.
Ice-t sits in the chair like a real brother, relaxing ! everyone else is so tense, Ice-T owned these fools !
Has there been anyone in Rap/Hip-Hop thats represented the culture their whole career, better than Ice-T? Such a great speaker and debater.
Ice T is giving them the business
7:50... I can stop listening right there when Ice said the fact that their parents are lousy isn't my fault..
He owned them........ I get so sick of people telling rappers and other people who didn't ask for the job that they have to be positive role models for kids with lousy parents....
NO THEY DON'T..........Ice t had and still does have his own life.... God allows each man to choose his path whether negative or positive so that at the end of that man's life he can't blame anyone but himself for how ever it ended.........
If a person who doesn't want to be positive does it, people will smell the fakeness and he will be unable to reach anyone because those who did love him will say he is a hypocrit...
ICE T
TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS
This debate has aged well - as we are still struggling with these questions, to this day; was he right??? was Ice T? does Ice T even 'still' feel the same way about all of this?
Black Envy and Jelousy
The Rev said he was trying to "Cut Off" Ice Ts money. So that lets us All know what time it is with that dude. He's not trying to cut of the Corporations who produced the urban poetry but the money of another Black man because of his jealousy and envy.
If you don't lile the music dont listen to it. Attempting to demonize the Corporations and artists dis not work
I moved to New York in 1989. I lived in Crown Heights Brooklyn .
Crack was hitting the hood. Nobody in society was doing anything about it. There 3 crack houses in my side of the street and a bunch of empty buildings. I was unable to understand how some rappers talked about their Fancy Cars, Diamonds and Money. It was hard to see how that helped the bunch of kids that lived in my block. The struggle was real for all of US and I really never give Fick of what he had about his Diamonds Cars and Money. I was more concern about hope. Other than that. I traveled a lot and realized that we all have a story to tell. The hood Cleaned up I bough the house 10 years later and saw some of the kids to grow and do well and others get lost. Rap had nothing to do with the Results. I opened my mind once I assimilated the American Culture as of whole. I love that we finally found a way to communicate without filters.
💯
I understand Ice-T completely, Butts too but the Educator makes no sense.
Ice T owned Butts.
I liked this discussion, watched and listened to the whole thing.
Same here
me too
very interesting discussion
Ife's Voice indeed
RIP Calvin Butts.....he wasn't very liked but he stood on his beliefs.
@jamesgibson - His tenacity made me think of Malcolm X .
Gangs, street violence, drugs, crime, the objectification of women, the use of the N-word, the breakdown of the family unit, all of this was all happening before gangsta rap even existed. Which means gangsta rap was never the root of our community's problems. It was merely a symptom. So much of this convo's focus was on fighting the symptom and not the disease. Cynthia Horner, as well as one of the callers, touched on this but their points were mostly ignored by the rest of the table and were never fully discussed.
i love ice t always been a real one from the door
#itstrue
I’m hindsight, Calvin Butts was right. We didn’t listen then, Those Drill Rappers won’t listen now
29:51 Thats why I dont like you! lol
🔥
I’m a 39 year old man now, & I’m one of those suburban white boys who had my fragile little mind warped and poisoned by Ice-T and his dangerous self expression.
The people on this panel seem hilariously behind the culture. Afraid of what they don’t understand. Rap was newer back then, & it was easy for them to take cheap shots. There’s an element of racism here too, of course.
The panel knows they’ll get a pat on the head for saying bad things about rap.
We not against rap...we not against rappers...BUT we all against those thugz🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶
And look at rap now...they tried to warn us
Sista in the red wig sound like a Chappelle skit.
30 years later who was making more sense?
The one who said you should parent your kids.
People should do research on ice t, he was one of the first industry plants. This nigha didnt grow up gangsta, he was in the military
Knew plenty of ex gang members in the military.
Ice T was hustling in different hoods' territory and with his military background, that would even make you more dangerous
And was rewarded with a 3 decade acting career!
The lady at 10:25 summed the whole debate with her statement,point blank!
Thank Everybody who took part in
We're not against rap. We're not against rappers. But we are against those thugs!
I got love for OG Ice-T!!!🌬️🥶🕶️ He’s always been my hero. I love his intelligence!✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
I was at that event when Rev. Butts attempted to literally steamroll gangster rap albums.
When has listening to the clergy every enhanced the secular world? The words of people espousing fairy tales should not be dictating public policy.
You mean like Dr. King, Norman Vincent Peale, and Malcolm X?
My point addressed the idea that personally held religious beliefs are of no use to the world at large. People in the clergy ARE capable of good ideas when they step into the secular world with the rest of us.
Michael Steven Martin MLK, Malcolm X and Vincent Peale Drew their ideology from their religious/faith traditions as well as some others.
Malcolm X whole contextual framework was borne out of the religious traditions he was reared in his whole adult life.
Kings non violent approach was borne out of Biblical interpretation and Gandhi's religious philosophy
Muhammad Ali who basically set off the antiwar and conscientious objector movement did so purely out of his religious convictions, period.
You can't separate the two no matter how hard you try.
"You can't separate the two no matter how hard you try." If you say so. Discussion over, I guess.
Listening to the clergy has greatly enhanced the secular world. From the Red Cross to hospitals to schools elevating education levels world wide. The fairy tale statement is correct problem is folks think evolution isn’t fairy tale when it is. Listening to the clergy greatly transformed many peoples' behavior for the better. Mike....do your homework before commenting in the presence of your elders.
Thank God major news outlets stopped interviewing Rappers about Lyrics. Who would speak intelligently for the culture now? It would be a bunch of mumble rappers high on pills and lean talking crazy....I'm glad I was born when I was born. Shout out to Ice-T, Public Enemy, KRS-1, Brand Nubian, X-Clam, Ice Cube, etc.
Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole, Wale
Do the Reverend Calvin Butts... Gotta pair a nuts???
I was really hoping Ice T would just stand up and bust out the hardest rap he had at that time.
I don’t know why they try to debate Ice T.
Rev Lucien They Can’t
😆 very articulate gangsta right there
Ice T showing up says everything
Look how things turned out today....
Came here looking for "young Ice-T" I think ice responded great at all scrutiny. Impressed.
A discussion like this is why the "true" influences run the music industry today
Do people really understand the impact and value of Ice T, Colors and the Movie itself? Do we really understand the impact and importance that he is and did for HipHop!?!
Love that man Tracy now while we still got him people. Show him honors and love now!
ICE-T SO RIGHT !!!!!
Haha Ice-T OG the Iceburg laid it down.
The music/artists aint the cause the shit's been/is going on already.
If you're a parent of a child that hears/watches something and then goes does it or who strangers have more influence over than themselves.....they are no Parents!
I normally like Ice Ts logic and arguments but his arguments in this interview are poorly presented. I guess he polished his position as he got older. I like how the Rev steered this toward being positive discourse.
I love the host for doing this back in da day.
Ice the smartest person in the room...he knows himself and the situation and intelligent enough to spar with these people!
ko'd them.
I grew up listening to hardcore rap & heavy metal from the late 80s and 90s and those days had the best music.. Ice T and the Reverend both have very good valid points, Ice T is simply being real because he grew up and lived that type of life that he is rapping about. These rap albums have parental explicit warnings, parents choose to allow or not allow their kids to listen to this music. Most people aren't far off the ledge to do what he's rapping about, he's rapping about bitches, hustling, pimpin, and slinging that iron.. If he's living that type of life and he's real and sharing his story of how he's living there's nothing wrong with that. Freedom of speech is a right, it's that simple. For those people who want to listen to this types of songs it's up to them. Like he said, Richard Pryor and Redd Foxx both have comedy gigs where they are using vulgar language, movies show tits and ass, curse words etc. But these shows aren't intended for children audience to view, it's that simple...
As far as what the Reverend is explaining about morals he's right. There isn't any good lyrics in most rap and heavy metal music , let's be honest, now if you want to listen to some great music that has a great message for family and loved ones listen to any type of country. Country music is the best!!!
It was all fun & games until Grunge ruined everything.
It all starts at home with the parents teaching their kids. Just because I hear someone rapping about something don't make me want to do what they are rapping about just like I don't want to Rob a casino after watching oceans 11.
well I got good news and bad news for u Tracy....bad news is u wrong....good news is, it dont matter..... its not YOUR job to fix America and help people raise they kids....god blessed u with a gift, a talent...express yoself thru yo art form, get paid, feed yo family.....if a person is not smart enough to realize music is just entertainment, that's THEIR fault, not yours!!! if their parents can't tell them the difference between reality and entertainment... that's THEIR fault, not yours!!!
Amen.