Are Beginners Worse Now Than 150 Years Ago? -- Let the comments begin!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- #handel #pianoteaching #pianoteachers #pianomusic #grades
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I think a lot of people nowadays are what I'd call "casuals" rather than beginners. People who learn a few pieces and chords and don't really study theory or work through entire Bach pieces (or even want to learn classical pieces at all). The goal is fun and to be able to play something they like, and that's totally fine.
I think "beginner" in older times perhaps referred more to beginner *students* - people taking their musicianship seriously with a long term view and actively striving to become intermediate or advanced players, which casual players don't really intend to do, even if they partake in some formal lessons.
I started playing and as an adult with a young child. This was the first chance I had to own a piano. My daughter could run circles around my meager playing. I did learn a few difficult pieces those first years with private teacher. I have "musical talent". But the challenges of raising my family and working outside my home to add to our income, slowed my progress.
I am also a self-taught seamstress and design and create my own sewing patterns. I also enjoy watercolor and card making. All these other interests split my practice time. To find a few hours weekly to practice became more difficult as I got older and started nursing school.
I also like to work at my own pace and work on what I felt was worthy of my very limited time. I tried many of the current books for adult theory. And would soon tire from them. After I retired, I found a lot more time to spend at the piano. Yet I still struggled to find the desire to play simple yet complicated pieces, because my focus wasn't on sight reading and I was slow. I still didn't have a command of all the notes nor any of my scales and chords.
You must know that this is daunting to someone who has played piano and learned many different pieces along the way. The internet and TH-cam especially changed how I practice. I continue to try various books that interest me. I still enjoy sewing and all my other hobbies. I designed and wrote the code for a detailed web site for classes on sewing. And I taught women for specific sewing classes for about 8 years after I retired.
Your sight-reading book is designed well and is a very distinct change from all the other books I have used. I am learning all my scales and can play most of the major scales from memory now. And I am picking up the chords and can see them in the music much faster. It is very hard to judge how fast I am sight reading. I think I am progressing, but there are times when I truly stumble over the music and spend a lot of time with simple one-line pieces playing them over and over with very limited progress.
In closing, when I was a child, I had a strong desire to play. Had I had the opportunity, that could have changed my life and how I play and practice today. We all come from different backgrounds and the one thing that unites us, is that desire to play doesn't go away if you have it. Music is vast, it has many levels and to really play well one must work through them. This is the challenge many students face as they face each day sitting at the piano. You are a gifted and blessed musician. I applaud all your efforts to help those of us who only get to feel that success occasionally. You did ask for my opinion.
Corey I agree with you and that's a good point- because of instruments in that time
Hi Cory you just popped up on my screen. Was pleased to see you. I follow you every now and then. The last viewing was Chopin Nocturne No. 2. I decided i liked the melody. But being impatient i did it my way slowly and snuck in the pedal. I know you said not to. But … at age 83 felt i could … Its been three weeks and heavens its kind of tough but i persevere daily. To your topic re grades - well age 13 i did Grade 1, 2 and 3 plus theory grade 1. I played in eistedfords(spelling?). Went to college of music at Uni Cape Town and my teacher let me play a Mozart piece apparently Grade 8 because she knew i could do it and i got a Bronze medal. At age 62 i took up music again with a fantastic music teacher he brought out the best in me i played at all his soirees over a period of 18 years. I did not need grades …… i better stop … My answer to you is grades are not important …… 🌻just the love of classical music … My neighbours wait to hear the daily piano playing and should i skip a day they let me know - i live in a small country town in South Africa - i find your videos inspirational- especially as i cannot travel to lessons any longer 🌻
In Denmark we call it "new-beginners" then beginners. A new-beginner is just starting, maybe they know a little. A beginner is still learning the easy material.
I like to think of myself as a hobbyist besides an adult "late" learner. Many of my teacher's students are retired or close to the age of retirement who have time on our hands. Unlike young people who are academically inclined, I have little interest in taking music exams. My goal is not to achieve a whatever ABRSM / RCM grade but to be able to play a few songs at gatherings.
2 years ago I was at a gathering. 2 teens who passed their ABRSM-8 exams (1 piano and the other violin) both performed a piece for us. The pieces were assinged by their teachers. Even at level 8, the person who learned piano didn't play anything particularly technical. The other on violin also played an intermediate piece (Gigue from Bach Partita #3). People who play violin would know that particular Gigue does not require playing double notes or the LH shifting for very high notes.
As far as I'm concerned, passing conservatory exams is different from being able to play technically challenging "advance" pieces. Not everybody has the confidence to perform in public (even a public piano). Passing an exam at a given level doesn't automatically mean someone would be able to perform pieces at that level in front of an audience. Not everybody has the confidence to pick their own pieces than playing only the teacher's assigned repertoire.
I personally see piano performance evolving into a more romantic/chopin-esque way of playing. I'm not a huge fan and would like to see more people like Gould or Horowitz
Yes, the beginners now are worse. Too many distractions, too many stupid guys like Wim who can’t play piano in tempo and tried to convince the world to slow down for him.
7:25-7:55, you are right, Cory Hall. And therefore played the young Franz Liszt his op 6(S 136) in single beat tempos.
Hello all, thanks for watching this video! Another example came to mind. Check out Bach's 6 Preludes "for Beginners" (BWV 933-938). Apparently, "beginners" were even better in Bach's time! Download the FREE sheet music to Handel's "Harmonious Blacksmith" for Beginners here: www.bachscholar.com/shop/p/handel-harmonious-blacksmith-maylath
Don't forget Album for the 'young', Op.68 by Schumann: some pieces have intervals that are physically impossible to reach for children
There are too many distractions nowadays.
Agreed
Seems like a lot of teachers also encourage this dumbed down approach by having their students practice Hanon #1 slowly for the first 5 years and prohibit them from moving on to the good stuff.
Go back a further 100 years and Bach was expecting little Wilhelm to start off with the Applicatio in C major, complete with ornaments. Beginner piece my a**!!
I think we’re just dumber these days.😢
Of course they are! 150 years (and more) ago only noble and rich can afford private music lessons and pianos - and look at all those rabble and dirty peasants learning piano these days... OMG, this world goes straight to hell...
On the flip side those who are talented advance much faster with all the readily information available.
When I started learning the piano (on my own), the first piece I taught myself was the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata (albeit I could read music as I was taught the cello). Maybe that is how piano was taught back then? But... looking at Schumann "Album..." and other C19th children's books, I can't think that would have been universal...
I don’t follow modern methods nor grading systems and am just trying to learn keyboard technique. I’ve recently started using your book to practice reading scales and arpeggios. I learned and memorised all 12 keys early on, but never learned to sight read them.
I’m using a Keyboard Technique book by CPE Bach, but haven’t finished it. I guess I’ll keep on trying to learn the old stuff before I start studying Taylor Swift.
Do we have anyone today like Chopin, who is giving small, intimate gathering concerts that will go on to be famous as he was?
is it coincidence that formal exam/grades for music came about at the same time as the beginnings of recorded music?
i think that the number of exams being taken, along with sheet music/piano sales are good measure for what music making/consumption would have looked like or was going thru.
Students of Asian descent may still reach more often the amount of practice, learning efficiency and serious attitude which children with a modern Western education often don’t reach anymore but probably reached 150 years ago.
i am pretty much a beginner, I think we beginners are worse than 150 years ago...
Could be right, but on the other hand it must be mentioned that amateurs in general have a very much better niveau today than for 150 years, especially for string player. This must also apply for pianist, because the technical- pädagogical knowledge is must better today.
Music requires plenty of solitude. Plenty of time to focus your thoughts on yourself and the notes in front of you.
In today's world, most people can barely go a couple of minutes without expressing their inflated opinions.
Mostly petty opinions involving curse words about how much they hate their coworkers, family, friends, work, or some combination thereof.
Selfishness and shallowness are now the national pledges it seems.
I wonder if students of that time learned partimento and that foundation made them advance faster.
Imagine I am a beginner and taught by Handel himeself 150 yr ago. It wouldnt make me feel worse.