What about lazer etching a qr code or serial number on the laminating that surround the comic and on the hard case. Make them matching codes that way each comic that is sealed matches the case its sealed in. Like a cars serial # to the registration or engine block. That seems like a simple fix moving forward...🤔
All they have to do is slip in a small card inside the inner well before sealing with the same serial number of the label. I would be nervous lasering the inner well with the book inside.
Honestly, just watched a video on Immaculate Comics, and he demonstrated how to take any CGC comic and swap out the book inside and re-seal it. There isn’t even a need to resubmit. Really horrible.
Yeah I just opened a case the other day without damaging it and can see how you could pull off a switch with a bit of care. Not hard for someone who is determined.
It’s pretty clear CGC skipped a fundamental step in the reholder process, HAVE A FINALIZER EXAMINE THE BOOK! At CBCS, each and every reholder gets examined for accidental slab damage due to shipping as well as tampering. CGC did not do its due diligence and the inner well and book being separate from the label & outer case is a huge design flaw!
The reason you slab a book is to sell it. I would prefer a system where you send in your book to get it graded for sale and the buyer buys it through CGC. Kinda like an auction, that way your still getting your guarantees. If you send it in for your personal collection than the book gets labeled as such. So if you sell it later the customer knows that they are taking a risk and the comic may have been tampered with. I'm not sure if CGC has the infrastructure to do any of this but I don't see how CGC come back from this without making slabbing books more exclusive
Is there any other way to find out? I ordered a green arrow and the case was a little separated… I checked the images on cgc and it’s identical. Should I worry?
It’s an integrity issue. You are right about CGC not regrading the book, I suspect they thought it would be quieter to wave the book through. Massive integrity issue. I’d advise everyone to pause from buying slabbed books the next few months and even then I don’t feel I can pay slabbed prices for books I don’t trust and can’t examine myself do we see effectively we are back to raw.
If CGC make a tamper proof case ( or cbcs ) any comic in an old case will be regarded by investors as second tier ( you know like 9.6s instead of 9.8s even though hardly anyone could tell the difference and either one could swap grade if they got resubmitted 😂) sorry for long sentence I need to learn to use full stops!!!!. Daft but it will happen. Just my opinion ofcourse no disrespect to anyone elses..
An even easier solution. Sonic weld the friggin' bottom of the slabs. That's it. The second you try to pry, even if its been heated, the case is going to crack.
immaculate comics shows how to open the case with heat and close with Xylene and you can't notice. the xylene makes the sealing invisible. 15 minutes from start to finish. But he does help show the tell tales signs if you look closely. Nothing is perfect, especially the CGC Case.
@@ComicBookInvestments Liked the video. I harped on this for years. You are right, and I repeat it again, it's plastic and not an impenetrable tomb. Folks were doing this 10~12 years ago with the PGCS coin holders. I fell out of love with the slabbed coin hobby. No one wants to pay big money for a swapped fake Chinese counterfeit coin. I watched it done/swapped in Asia since out-of-date currency of any type is not considered counterfeiting there or illegal, same with out-of-print media. It was not too long ago that this a conversation on a fake/phony Hulk 181 was shared on immaculate comics and I believe your channel. If someone opens the actual comic inner seal and swaps it at that level...wow. Even if you Lazer inscribe the case, label and inner case to all match you still have to make that inner case really tamper proof. Crime follows the path of least resistance and the money. In this case, it they offshore this, no legal case will cross into China.
I’m remembering watching on of your previous videos where you said CGC would re-holder for free if you reported receiving a cracked case from then within a certain amount of time. I think CGC should get rid of re-holdering. I have always wonder how do you know if the book wasn’t even slightly damaged when the case cracked. I think if you receive a cracked case from CGC they should re-grade and re-case for free if you report it in the specified period of time. If not all books need to be submitted to be re-graded.
Seen how you can easily slip in a piece of Mylar to clear newton rings. These slabs should be sonically welded like PSA slabs so there is no way to open them without cracking them.
with reholdering - they need to at least give those reholder orders some scrutiny - that ASM 252 MJ variant has no business in a 9.8 case and that should have been evident to any grader at even a quick glance. My guess is the reholdering process has none of that, they literally just pop it out and throw it in a new case and send it on its way, they don't care what the book looks lke. If I had to guess, I assume that is the first thing CGC changed when they head of this.
Doesn't this whole scam rely on CGC not reappraising the book when it's sent in for a reholder? I thought they said that reholders do not necessarily keep the same grade..?
Reholders always keep the same grade and the scammers knew this that's why they got away with this for so long all they needed to do was figure out how to take the book out and swap which we saw from the video was fairly easy to do. A reholder doesn't get regraded bc they are 2 different services
@@comicroy9842 believe it or not if you go in CGCs website they don't guarantee the grade they issue. The only thing they actually guarantee is that the book itself is authentic not many know this
This smells like an inside job. Someone at CGC is complicit. Also it wouldn’t be hard to find the culprit. It’s someone who’s been there at least 7 years or longer. The culprit would be getting paid what, maybe $15 hr, will have clothes or a car that he shouldn’t be able to afford on that pay. Just my detective opinion
I would rather see the reholder process go away instead of totally redesigning the case. As a collector we generally want the newest case available, and for each collector to regrade each book for a new case would be a huge waste of money
I do not see how CGC would not regrade a book even for a reholder as it may not be the same book. Especially when they need to confirm that it is a Mark Jewelers that they missed and they cannot even tale their one minute initial grading look? Something does not make sense to me. C'mon, what is going on?
Someone on one of the other channels had a great idea about laser engraving the certification number onto the inner sleeve. That way if the inner sleeve is compromised or it does not match the certification number on the label then it would render that certification number invalid and CGC at that point would only need to update the census. I don't blame CGC for scammers trying to find ways to defeat their security but the ball is their court to continuously upgrade the security features on their products.
they must reholder because they ship so many terribly broken cases fresh out of their facility - they should treat the plastic so that if it's opened with a heat gun like this fraudster, that it changes the color of the plastic permenantly. The real issues is how they will address all the millions of currently graded books with the old cases - not with inner well serial numbers like you suggest, not with new heat-color plastic - millions of books now with a trust problem.
This seems like a failure from the design of the case all the way to the grading and reholdering process. That ASM is definitely a little beat on the corner and top right edge. How did a professional grader see a 9.8 grade with a book obviously not a 9.8 , along with the mark jewler request, and NO red alarms went off?? He was literally holding it raw in his hands. How can these people call themselves professionals? At least recently CGC started scanning their slabs right? So you can compare your book to the online scan. That should go a long way as finding two books at different grades that look identical on front and back cover seems very unlikely.
Thank you! Ive been going nuts this week because i swore they claimed that they "dont guarantee same grade" for a reholder. I was thinking they actually looked at these books and this had to be an inside job at first. But never attribute to malice that which can be explained by laziness
Easy, all you have to do is get a green label and a blue label of similar approximate grade with no obvious blemish. Cut the slabs discard the green label, put the green label book in the blue label slab in a not too damage-appearing way. Submit for reholdering process where SCRUTINY IS MINIMAL and voila you have a qualified book in a blue label and then you submit the original book through normal grading two universal slabs from a green and a blue.
If it’s not an inside job, my guess is that the offenders got a hold of new unused slabs from CGC’s supplier. Solution would be Lasor etching the inside of the slabs with the CGC serial number during grading. And, CGC not excepting anymore re-holders without that etching.
Honestly, the ONLY solve is that CGC always, always, always regrade every book that’s sent in for re-holdering. What’s wild to me is that I swore that that was CGC’s policy already - that any book that was sent in for re-holdering would necessarily be regraded. But like you said - lazy af. The other very significant issue is that with just a heat gun and some patience, the cases can be easily opened, and then re-glued shut. No CGC re-submission required. So yeah. We need to start having serial numbers somewhere on the physical insert.
Serial number on the inner well, or even a holagraphic sticker with the serial number on the inner well would be the way to go. Regrading a reholder order is just not practical. Many people send in just for a custom label or to update their old CGC case which sucked. No way people would submit knowing their books will be looked at again and possibly dropped a grade. It’s unfortunate this happened, it’s bad for the comic community as this guy possibly sent out 200-300 “bad” books out there of the most coveted keys. He’s been doing it for 10+ years.
Maybe it would be better for the hobby (and worse for CGC profit) if they didn't promote constant updating to new labels. What better way to get free money than getting people to reholder every few years?
You're assuming that CGC even opens the inner well. You are too optimistic. They likely took his word for it and simply updated the label's wording while keeping the original grade.
I only see 2 options for CGC. Stop the reholder service and grade everything, or new label, new stripe, or just note “this book has been reholder” and leave it up to to decide to by or not.Of course they may take a hit in sells. Except old cases going into new cases. They would have to be in perfect condition to skip the regrading process.
I agree. If a book is given a certification number but is either resubmitted or reholdered, that book should be given a new certification number and the old number be either removed from the census or have it linked to the new number.
Maybe there’s a tool to open the case and switch a book and send it in and they jus re label it and cgc jus wants a new case !! It’s fish but people are good at what they don
I believe what the primary theory about how he did it was that he figured out an undetectable way to swap out the label, and then cgc was too lazy to check the book or worse still had someone in cahoots that was getting his books by.
Problem with doing away with reholdering is example my last 3 orders have all shown up broken from cgc. I literally got in a shouting match with them over the phone them claiming it was my fault. The value of cgc’s have been in decline and honestly I’m not submitting anymore. They’ve been treating me like a criminal and their service isn’t worth the cost anymore. Signature series books have become stupid expensive yet at conventions dummies still line up for it 😂
But really that's different. As the buyer of their service, you should be entitled to have them fix a problem within 30 days for example. CGC is in trouble because they are believing random people find error slabs in the wild and fix them without scrutiny.
They need to laser etch the serial number on the slab and all four sides of the inner case. They need to treat these like cars and put the vin (serial) number all over everything. That way the inner case can actually be tracked just like the outer slab. This way if you send in a comic for a reholder then you must send the serialized label in the matching serialized slab along with the serialized inner case sealed with comic. If you don't have all that then it's an automatic regrade.
At the end of the day we pay for a complete stranger to grade ours books regardless of the company good luck guys!. Remember collect what you love and you’ll love what you collect!.
its why ive been saying forever there should be an accreditation process to certify graders reason why they wont? would cost money for the grading companies to do so at the rate they are going they are messing the market up to the point no one can trust anything just like when they had no graders around
Not sure if you watch your own videos... Trust me, watch this one. You are very clearly frustrated, and your candor literally had me laughing out loud several times. Now that my dog thinks that I'm a lunatic, I guess I'll watch another video...
Definitely should have the serial number etched and grade label should be attached to the comic holder as well they should have realized this at the very beginning for security purposes I don't know why it took this long for someone to figure it out cgc should have fix this problem years ago before it became a problem shame on cgc
I work on two lasers and laser etching would be super easy and fast. Also,this is another opportunity for CBCS,especially now that they have new cases and labels,to make a push.
CGC is not necessarily lazy but they are probably rushed because they are under hard obligation to pay back BlackStone the $500,000,000 including interest that they borrowed from BS. (BS, that’s funny) CGC is probably hustling out Tens of Thousands of comic per week to maintain their financial obligations. With this intense pressure, mistakes are going to be made, LOTS of mistakes are going to be made.
I said they should put a matching code on the inner well as soon as I found out about the scam. The only way to be sure is to match the inner well to the slab.
Would it not be logistically easier to swap out the labels rather than swapping out the books? With no damage to a case around a book (only around the label), it would be much easier for CGC not to give the grade a 2nd thought in the reholder process. Yes, etching the number on the sleeve would be a good option, but I wonder why the sleeve and the label can't be one piece in the first place. Why do they need to be separate?
*_He used a laser to trim the books and got banned for life when CGC discovered it._* *_Thing is, CGC should have spotted it as they are the graders. You can see it with a microscope._* Edit for spelling.
Thank you Dave, YES CGC at least make two mistakes to let this happen. YOU are the only TH-camr you admits this. Therefore, how bad has this been and WHO is responsible on the inside?
There are a half dozen ways that CGC can easily alleviate this situation. Hopefully we’ll hear something soon. Guess I better hurry and send my reholder in.
9.9 Newsstand did a great job of breaking this and Immaculate Comics showed how it is most likely done!! Big questions: 1. How long has this been going on? 2. What is CGC going to do about it? 3. What are some of the community solutions to the problem? (Example: Cert # on the inner well) 4. Can you crack the CBCS case the same way?
Maybe PGX should change to PRB (poorly run business)! I was waiting for your rant Dave (definitely on the mild side for you)! I like your idea for them to inscribe the inner well somehow.
I could swear the label used to be part of the sleeve, in fact I know it was I had a secret war 8 with a busted case years ago and took it out it was all one piece, the sleeve and label were attached. What a stupid thing to change!
I'm with you David. Your ideas are sound and very logical. To bad people that make decisions in big corporations don't know logic. Lol 😅. I think they should just can the reholder idea. But you said it best, just keep the cracked case😅
CGC won’t address this. What are they going to do, make all new cases and a 21st century serial number system? That slackjaw Nelson going to spend a nickel on a better system? Nope.
I just want to know how that MJ even got a 9.8? Clearly, Not even close to a 9.8 looking at it in the case...Corners and spine not 9.8 caliber especially for $15k. Are graded comics a scam???? 🤔 definitely feel this is a big black mark on CGC. Dave always love the show!!! Speaking on that knowing you've been open about your pops working at CBCS why dont you send more comics into CBCS?
I have been sending your company several emails for three weeks now. I also called your company direct and left a message. Why are the emails going unanswered? Seems kind of odd to be doing a video about a CGC Grading issue when you don't take care of your customers? Ignoring people is no way to do business!
Hey Tom. Sorry. I’m not sure what number you are calling. As we don’t have a business phone number. Also I don’t do the customer service side of things. As in answer emails. If you want to email me directly then I can take care of your issue. David@collectorscomics.com
Plain and simple, GCG should never accept a re-holder from someone other than the original submitter. They should stand behind their original label decision to not list Mark Jewelers, etc. That's the "guarantee." When you want a new case, a new label, or fix an error, it should be graded fresh or at least looked at with scrutiny.
What’s wild is that anyone who does this is committing wire fraud, a federal felony punishable by up to 20 years PER case.
Theres the old saying "Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered." Dude got too greedy.
What about lazer etching a qr code or serial number on the laminating that surround the comic and on the hard case. Make them matching codes that way each comic that is sealed matches the case its sealed in. Like a cars serial # to the registration or engine block. That seems like a simple fix moving forward...🤔
All they have to do is slip in a small card inside the inner well before sealing with the same serial number of the label. I would be nervous lasering the inner well with the book inside.
yep you’re right there was a hulk 181 qualified marvel stamp missing 8.5 that this “comic select” seller switched out for a 9.0 blue
I saw a video where a guy said you can see the black Mark Jewelers insert inside the inner well.
Honestly, just watched a video on Immaculate Comics, and he demonstrated how to take any CGC comic and swap out the book inside and re-seal it. There isn’t even a need to resubmit. Really horrible.
Thanks. Just went and watched it. Wonder if this can be done with cbcs cases?
Yep saw it too. Looked easy to do with practice. They need to do something if they wish their business not to tank.
Yeah I have 1000s to go for grading so if cbcs is anti tamper im in
Yeah I just opened a case the other day without damaging it and can see how you could pull off a switch with a bit of care. Not hard for someone who is determined.
Yes he just showed a video how to commit fraud. You know scammers will now do this and flood the market with switched books.
It’s pretty clear CGC skipped a fundamental step in the reholder process, HAVE A FINALIZER EXAMINE THE BOOK! At CBCS, each and every reholder gets examined for accidental slab damage due to shipping as well as tampering. CGC did not do its due diligence and the inner well and book being separate from the label & outer case is a huge design flaw!
The reason you slab a book is to sell it. I would prefer a system where you send in your book to get it graded for sale and the buyer buys it through CGC. Kinda like an auction, that way your still getting your guarantees. If you send it in for your personal collection than the book gets labeled as such. So if you sell it later the customer knows that they are taking a risk and the comic may have been tampered with. I'm not sure if CGC has the infrastructure to do any of this but I don't see how CGC come back from this without making slabbing books more exclusive
Doesn't CGC stand for Certified Guaranty Company? Do they use the Tommy Boy's definition of guaranty?
Is there any other way to find out? I ordered a green arrow and the case was a little separated… I checked the images on cgc and it’s identical. Should I worry?
It’s an integrity issue. You are right about CGC not regrading the book, I suspect they thought it would be quieter to wave the book through. Massive integrity issue. I’d advise everyone to pause from buying slabbed books the next few months and even then I don’t feel I can pay slabbed prices for books I don’t trust and can’t examine myself do we see effectively we are back to raw.
I would actually question everyone who sends their slabs to get reholdered just so they can have CGC's lame looking $5 custom label.
Remember those C G C cases without the inner sleeve could that be the answer?
If CGC make a tamper proof case ( or cbcs ) any comic in an old case will be regarded by investors as second tier ( you know like 9.6s instead of 9.8s even though hardly anyone could tell the difference and either one could swap grade if they got resubmitted 😂) sorry for long sentence I need to learn to use full stops!!!!. Daft but it will happen. Just my opinion ofcourse no disrespect to anyone elses..
An even easier solution. Sonic weld the friggin' bottom of the slabs. That's it. The second you try to pry, even if its been heated, the case is going to crack.
immaculate comics posted a vid showing how to pop a book out undetected this morning
Somehow, just put the certificate number on the inner well
Maybe they had inside help?
immaculate comics shows how to open the case with heat and close with Xylene and you can't notice. the xylene makes the sealing invisible. 15 minutes from start to finish. But he does help show the tell tales signs if you look closely. Nothing is perfect, especially the CGC Case.
They need to put the serial number on the comic thin case
@@ComicBookInvestments Liked the video. I harped on this for years. You are right, and I repeat it again, it's plastic and not an impenetrable tomb. Folks were doing this 10~12 years ago with the PGCS coin holders. I fell out of love with the slabbed coin hobby. No one wants to pay big money for a swapped fake Chinese counterfeit coin. I watched it done/swapped in Asia since out-of-date currency of any type is not considered counterfeiting there or illegal, same with out-of-print media. It was not too long ago that this a conversation on a fake/phony Hulk 181 was shared on immaculate comics and I believe your channel. If someone opens the actual comic inner seal and swaps it at that level...wow. Even if you Lazer inscribe the case, label and inner case to all match you still have to make that inner case really tamper proof. Crime follows the path of least resistance and the money. In this case, it they offshore this, no legal case will cross into China.
I’m remembering watching on of your previous videos where you said CGC would re-holder for free if you reported receiving a cracked case from then within a certain amount of time. I think CGC should get rid of re-holdering. I have always wonder how do you know if the book wasn’t even slightly damaged when the case cracked. I think if you receive a cracked case from CGC they should re-grade and re-case for free if you report it in the specified period of time. If not all books need to be submitted to be re-graded.
how is that book even a 9.8, 9.0+ at first glance
I also saw that video on Immaculate Comics. Scary. CGC needs to do something about its cases as they are so easily compromised!
Seen how you can easily slip in a piece of Mylar to clear newton rings. These slabs should be sonically welded like PSA slabs so there is no way to open them without cracking them.
Jason Ewert ( a former CGC employee ) was involved in a big CGC micro trim scandal around 2005. Is that who you're referring to?
That’s probably him. It was along time ago so I couldn’t remember the name
with reholdering - they need to at least give those reholder orders some scrutiny - that ASM 252 MJ variant has no business in a 9.8 case and that should have been evident to any grader at even a quick glance. My guess is the reholdering process has none of that, they literally just pop it out and throw it in a new case and send it on its way, they don't care what the book looks lke. If I had to guess, I assume that is the first thing CGC changed when they head of this.
Doesn't this whole scam rely on CGC not reappraising the book when it's sent in for a reholder? I thought they said that reholders do not necessarily keep the same grade..?
Reholders always keep the same grade and the scammers knew this that's why they got away with this for so long all they needed to do was figure out how to take the book out and swap which we saw from the video was fairly easy to do. A reholder doesn't get regraded bc they are 2 different services
@@MarcSpectorComics my bad, I always had in my mind they checked the grade as I thought they said the original grade isn't guaranteed
@@comicroy9842 believe it or not if you go in CGCs website they don't guarantee the grade they issue. The only thing they actually guarantee is that the book itself is authentic not many know this
ive been waiting for Daves take on this...
Ya I got many comments. So I figured I’d give my insight
This smells like an inside job. Someone at CGC is complicit. Also it wouldn’t be hard to find the culprit. It’s someone who’s been there at least 7 years or longer. The culprit would be getting paid what, maybe $15 hr, will have clothes or a car that he shouldn’t be able to afford on that pay. Just my detective opinion
Like Richard Pryor in Superman 3.
My opinion is regrade for a regrade but you get a credit back for future grading
I would rather see the reholder process go away instead of totally redesigning the case. As a collector we generally want the newest case available, and for each collector to regrade each book for a new case would be a huge waste of money
They could use a tamper proof holographic sticker with the serial # on it.
I do not see how CGC would not regrade a book even for a reholder as it may not be the same book. Especially when they need to confirm that it is a Mark Jewelers that they missed and they cannot even tale their one minute initial grading look? Something does not make sense to me. C'mon, what is going on?
Could be an inside job.
@@ComicBookInvestments That is hard to believe. CGC has been certifying other collectables way before comic books to allow that. We will see....
Someone on one of the other channels had a great idea about laser engraving the certification number onto the inner sleeve. That way if the inner sleeve is compromised or it does not match the certification number on the label then it would render that certification number invalid and CGC at that point would only need to update the census. I don't blame CGC for scammers trying to find ways to defeat their security but the ball is their court to continuously upgrade the security features on their products.
You got it Dave..first rule - DTA
Don't Trust Anyone !!
They print the serial number in a transparent uv activated ink on the inner sleave. Done no need for etching just arm your people with a blue light.
I need that pawdre tee
solid gold cgc cases held up by gucci mane sitting in a hot tub full o bitxz in his next video -that could be like the premium special gucci slab
they must reholder because they ship so many terribly broken cases fresh out of their facility - they should treat the plastic so that if it's opened with a heat gun like this fraudster, that it changes the color of the plastic permenantly. The real issues is how they will address all the millions of currently graded books with the old cases - not with inner well serial numbers like you suggest, not with new heat-color plastic - millions of books now with a trust problem.
I think a serial number engraved would be the best way imo
@@ComicBookInvestments may very well be. But how does it address all current and older cases though?
I’ve had a reholder get regraded before. Fact. But I am not a dealer so I get crapped on.
This seems like a failure from the design of the case all the way to the grading and reholdering process. That ASM is definitely a little beat on the corner and top right edge. How did a professional grader see a 9.8 grade with a book obviously not a 9.8 , along with the mark jewler request, and NO red alarms went off?? He was literally holding it raw in his hands. How can these people call themselves professionals? At least recently CGC started scanning their slabs right? So you can compare your book to the online scan. That should go a long way as finding two books at different grades that look identical on front and back cover seems very unlikely.
Their entire business is built on trust and reputation so that’s what they need to invest in.
Exactly!
Why does CGC get off easy while PGX gets a bad rap? CGC has done more sketchy moves than all the comic grading companies combined.
Thank you! Ive been going nuts this week because i swore they claimed that they "dont guarantee same grade" for a reholder. I was thinking they actually looked at these books and this had to be an inside job at first. But never attribute to malice that which can be explained by laziness
Easy, all you have to do is get a green label and a blue label of similar approximate grade with no obvious blemish. Cut the slabs discard the green label, put the green label book in the blue label slab in a not too damage-appearing way. Submit for reholdering process where SCRUTINY IS MINIMAL and voila you have a qualified book in a blue label and then you submit the original book through normal grading two universal slabs from a green and a blue.
It’s really concerning how easy this is. Even if the scammer doesn’t reholder with CGC, many people will get fooled by a straight book swap.
If it’s not an inside job, my guess is that the offenders got a hold of new unused slabs from CGC’s supplier.
Solution would be Lasor etching the inside of the slabs with the CGC serial number during grading.
And, CGC not excepting anymore re-holders without that etching.
Immaculate Comics put out a video at almost the exact time as you did where he shows a very likely way this scam was pulled.
Looks like CBCS is the way to go. CGC’s integrity just went down the toilet.
Honestly, the ONLY solve is that CGC always, always, always regrade every book that’s sent in for re-holdering.
What’s wild to me is that I swore that that was CGC’s policy already - that any book that was sent in for re-holdering would necessarily be regraded. But like you said - lazy af.
The other very significant issue is that with just a heat gun and some patience, the cases can be easily opened, and then re-glued shut. No CGC re-submission required.
So yeah. We need to start having serial numbers somewhere on the physical insert.
Serial number on the inner well, or even a holagraphic sticker with the serial number on the inner well would be the way to go. Regrading a reholder order is just not practical. Many people send in just for a custom label or to update their old CGC case which sucked. No way people would submit knowing their books will be looked at again and possibly dropped a grade. It’s unfortunate this happened, it’s bad for the comic community as this guy possibly sent out 200-300 “bad” books out there of the most coveted keys. He’s been doing it for 10+ years.
Maybe it would be better for the hobby (and worse for CGC profit) if they didn't promote constant updating to new labels. What better way to get free money than getting people to reholder every few years?
We’ll count on the doing something. Cause the other company cbcs just updated all there slabs to be better.
People will switch over
I had a few of those micro trimmed books. CGC bought them from me after the scandal came out.
You're assuming that CGC even opens the inner well. You are too optimistic. They likely took his word for it and simply updated the label's wording while keeping the original grade.
What is the name of the SCAMMER or his selling ID that was caught doing this???
I showed it in the video. Not sure off the top of my head though
I only see 2 options for CGC. Stop the reholder service and grade everything, or new label, new stripe, or just note “this book has been reholder” and leave it up to to decide to by or not.Of course they may take a hit in sells. Except old cases going into new cases. They would have to be in perfect condition to skip the regrading process.
I agree. If a book is given a certification number but is either resubmitted or reholdered, that book should be given a new certification number and the old number be either removed from the census or have it linked to the new number.
I sent one or two slabbed books to CGC for their signature series and there was a disclaimer the grade might come back lower.
Maybe there’s a tool to open the case and switch a book and send it in and they jus re label it and cgc jus wants a new case !! It’s fish but people are good at what they don
I believe what the primary theory about how he did it was that he figured out an undetectable way to swap out the label, and then cgc was too lazy to check the book or worse still had someone in cahoots that was getting his books by.
Problem with doing away with reholdering is example my last 3 orders have all shown up broken from cgc. I literally got in a shouting match with them over the phone them claiming it was my fault. The value of cgc’s have been in decline and honestly I’m not submitting anymore. They’ve been treating me like a criminal and their service isn’t worth the cost anymore. Signature series books have become stupid expensive yet at conventions dummies still line up for it 😂
But really that's different. As the buyer of their service, you should be entitled to have them fix a problem within 30 days for example. CGC is in trouble because they are believing random people find error slabs in the wild and fix them without scrutiny.
I would like to see CBCS grab a larger piece of the market.
Me too their cases are much tougher just not pretty @@Boxingbear
They need to laser etch the serial number on the slab and all four sides of the inner case. They need to treat these like cars and put the vin (serial) number all over everything. That way the inner case can actually be tracked just like the outer slab.
This way if you send in a comic for a reholder then you must send the serialized label in the matching serialized slab along with the serialized inner case sealed with comic. If you don't have all that then it's an automatic regrade.
At the end of the day we pay for a complete stranger to grade ours books regardless of the company good luck guys!.
Remember collect what you love and you’ll love what you collect!.
its why ive been saying forever there should be an accreditation process to certify graders reason why they wont? would cost money for the grading companies to do so at the rate they are going they are messing the market up to the point no one can trust anything just like when they had no graders around
Not sure if you watch your own videos...
Trust me, watch this one.
You are very clearly frustrated, and your candor literally had me laughing out loud several times.
Now that my dog thinks that I'm a lunatic, I guess I'll watch another video...
😂
Definitely should have the serial number etched and grade label should be attached to the comic holder as well they should have realized this at the very beginning for security purposes I don't know why it took this long for someone to figure it out cgc should have fix this problem years ago before it became a problem shame on cgc
Hey david love the content, do you think theres a possibility changing labels and re holding everything to double check if the book is a fraud?
I work on two lasers and laser etching would be super easy and fast.
Also,this is another opportunity for CBCS,especially now that they have new cases and labels,to make a push.
CGC is not necessarily lazy but they are probably rushed because they are under hard obligation to pay back BlackStone the $500,000,000 including interest that they borrowed from BS. (BS, that’s funny) CGC is probably hustling out Tens of Thousands of comic per week to maintain their financial obligations. With this intense pressure, mistakes are going to be made, LOTS of mistakes are going to be made.
I said they should put a matching code on the inner well as soon as I found out about the scam. The only way to be sure is to match the inner well to the slab.
Would it not be logistically easier to swap out the labels rather than swapping out the books? With no damage to a case around a book (only around the label), it would be much easier for CGC not to give the grade a 2nd thought in the reholder process.
Yes, etching the number on the sleeve would be a good option, but I wonder why the sleeve and the label can't be one piece in the first place. Why do they need to be separate?
*_He used a laser to trim the books and got banned for life when CGC discovered it._*
*_Thing is, CGC should have spotted it as they are the graders. You can see it with a microscope._*
Edit for spelling.
Thank you Dave, YES CGC at least make two mistakes to let this happen. YOU are the only TH-camr you admits this. Therefore, how bad has this been and WHO is responsible on the inside?
I don’t know how many have actually been tampered with but I bet it’s more then cgc claims. Also could have been an inside job
Just seal RFID tags inside the books. Cheap and easy. Problem solved.
There are a half dozen ways that CGC can easily alleviate this situation. Hopefully we’ll hear something soon. Guess I better hurry and send my reholder in.
Great idea!!! I'm sure CGC will do something. Looking forward to their response.
9.9 Newsstand did a great job of breaking this and Immaculate Comics showed how it is most likely done!! Big questions: 1. How long has this been going on? 2. What is CGC going to do about it? 3. What are some of the community solutions to the problem? (Example: Cert # on the inner well) 4. Can you crack the CBCS case the same way?
Yes this needs to be addressed quick. And I bet it’s been going on a lot that no one knows about
CGC NEEDS TO REDO HOLDERS WITH INSERTS LIKE PMG
Maybe PGX should change to PRB (poorly run business)! I was waiting for your rant Dave (definitely on the mild side for you)! I like your idea for them to inscribe the inner well somehow.
I could swear the label used to be part of the sleeve, in fact I know it was I had a secret war 8 with a busted case years ago and took it out it was all one piece, the sleeve and label were attached. What a stupid thing to change!
Been saying forever… the inner sleeve for pgx is attached to the label and the book … not sure why cgc never did this. Have always liked cbcs the most
I'm with you David. Your ideas are sound and very logical. To bad people that make decisions in big corporations don't know logic. Lol 😅. I think they should just can the reholder idea. But you said it best, just keep the cracked case😅
Dave…..what about CBCS? Didn’t the guy who formed CGC is now the creator of CBCS? Why doesn’t CBCS books get the same prices as CGC?
Just watching because I chose,too✌️🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
CGC won’t address this. What are they going to do, make all new cases and a 21st century serial number system? That slackjaw Nelson going to spend a nickel on a better system? Nope.
I just want to know how that MJ even got a 9.8? Clearly, Not even close to a 9.8 looking at it in the case...Corners and spine not 9.8 caliber especially for $15k. Are graded comics a scam???? 🤔 definitely feel this is a big black mark on CGC. Dave always love the show!!! Speaking on that knowing you've been open about your pops working at CBCS why dont you send more comics into CBCS?
I have been sending your company several emails for three weeks now. I also called your company direct and left a message. Why are the emails going unanswered? Seems kind of odd to be doing a video about a CGC Grading issue when you don't take care of your customers? Ignoring people is no way to do business!
Hey Tom. Sorry. I’m not sure what number you are calling. As we don’t have a business phone number. Also I don’t do the customer service side of things. As in answer emails. If you want to email me directly then I can take care of your issue. David@collectorscomics.com
Thank you Dave, You and Thomas were able to answer my concerns in a timely manner. As always you have a high class company. @@ComicBookInvestments
This is how you open a case without breaking it: th-cam.com/video/vONa3k9gnVg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Plain and simple, GCG should never accept a re-holder from someone other than the original submitter. They should stand behind their original label decision to not list Mark Jewelers, etc. That's the "guarantee." When you want a new case, a new label, or fix an error, it should be graded fresh or at least looked at with scrutiny.
Decaf my dude!
Once again, CGC gets a pass smh
To me the best resolution is to stop private submissions. Only allow people to submit thru LCS’s. Or third party vendors.
#RAW