Some details I left out... The rolls of film were HP5 Plus, developed in HC-110 Dilution B with standard agitation of 1 minute with 10s every minute for 5 minutes--basically the default from the Massive Dev Chart. The prints were made on Ilford Multigrade RC Deluxe Glossy paper, developed in Ilford Multigrade Developer at 1+9 for 1 minute. Note that grain is more prominent in the digital scans, making the grain look exaggerated. The darkroom prints look much better, if only because they are smaller than the 27" screen on my iMac. I figured that if I can get away with chunky grain from HP5, then surely a tighter-grained film like TMax 100 would look awesome in half-frame. I mentioned a few quibbles (battery cover screw, power switch, mode knob), but forgot to mention a few others: 1) the viewfinder is plastic--this part really should be glass 2) You can't tell if the take-up spool is turning when rewinding film; on a camera like the Canons there is a little dot on the button you press to start rewinding that rotates as you rewind, showing that the sprocket is still turning. This makes it easier to leave the leader out. 3) The rewind lever has an annoying steep angle and folds up on itself too easily when rewinding. Other cameras do this too--my Nikon S3 is a prime offender--but the Canon A-1 did it right and the lever lays flat when rewinding. As noted by @husshardan3511 below, the Pentax manual says that the "Auto" position will result in a single fixed-focus with a small aperture...not my idea of cool, so I will stick with either of the P modes, depending on whether or not I want flash. None of these quibbles are worth worrying about in my opinion--every camera has annoyances.
This is such a nice relaxed and well done review of the Pentax 17. I ordered one and can’t wait to receive it and start having fun with it. It will be my first film camera since my teenage years!!
Thanks! I was out today shooting more with the Pentax 17 and plan on a followup video, just to show that the novelty hasn't worn off, and to share what a few months of use has taught me.
Seriously, you are a great story teller who knows what he's talking about and knows how to bring it across. You're also a good photographer, shooting the right subjects for this neat little camera. A big surprise was the image of the man in the park. So much detail with a half frame camera, yet so much mood by not being tack sharp. Really enjoyed your video!!!
Thanks for the kind words! And I haven't tired of the camera--every time I want to shoot, I look over my various older 35mm cameras, but the Pentax is just fun to shoot. I went out shooting on Friday in preparation for a video on B&W film developing for a friend, and the camera of choice was the Pentax 17!
Nice overview. I enjoyed the info you included about the enlarger and negative carrier. I'm really on the fence about picking one up. The main thing that bothers me is the f3.5 lens. I envision this as a everyday carry to capture daily life, but many of those shots would be indoors and I'm not a big fan of flash in a scene. It would be no problem to just run some 800 speed through it, but then when I go outside the shutter caps out at 350/Sec. Other than that, it looks like a perfect "always have on you" kinda camera.
Thanks! I agree about the shutter/lens limitations--that's why I don't leave film in it. I normally bulk load 15 normal-shot rolls of HP5 with the intent of shooting all 30 frames and developing the same day. Last week when I went out to shoot some TMax 100, I split a standard 36 frame roll into two 16 frame rolls (more or less) and shot all of one of those, rather than leaving the camera tied up with some film I might not want to use. Since I have lots of HP5, I can push to 1600 without much concern, at the cost of added contrast, again shooting a short enough roll to have the whole thing done in one outing. Who knows, maybe I'll gravitate to leaving it always with some HP5 in it. Anyway, it's all about having fun.
You're probably thinking Roy Lichtenstein for the "dot" pics. But I knew what you meant and I have the fears for my Pentax 17. Great video and love the content!
I actually feared the photos would look pixellated like Minecraft! Fortunately the reality has been much better than that. In recent weeks I have been shooting TMax 100 and the grain is tight, so it does a good job on the 17. With that said, even grainy HP5 Plus retains its charm in the 17.
Great overview / review of this camera. It is actually a really nice camera and the built quality is actually also good. a lot of reviews here on TH-cam do not seem to like half frame cameras due to its "lesser resolution". So I was actually very surprised by how good the quality the actual frames are when I got my first roll from development. I understand that it is a trade-off but getting 72 frames is huge! And again the quantity is actually very good. It's very nice seeing you pointing this out with your darkroom prints, which look absolutely amazing on print. The Pentax 17 is my every day analog camera.
Thanks! Just don't ever use the AUTO setting. The little Pentax 17 is calling me every day when I am heading out. On Sunday I took my Canon A1 to the park for some macro shots ... and tossed the Pentax in the bag. In the end I shot as much with the Pentax as with the full-frame camera. Today when I went to the YMCA I grabbed the 17 again and shot another (short) roll after my run. It's such a fun little camera. Enjoy!
Thanks for an interesting review, I love my 17 and agree it is a camera to just take with you and have fun. Seeing your scanning setup and hints on the darkroom exposure were a nice addition.
Thanks! I'm still going to get around to posting a more detailed video about the scanning setup for half frame--digital camera scanning is an amazing tool for film shooters, as it gives us really high quality proofs, which we can share as photos in their own right with our friends and family.
@@TadTadd I have yet to scan my first roll, I have the old Pentax bellows and slide/film copying setup, but I need an extra extension tube to mount the camera on the bellows. I plan on using the K3iii Mono camera which should give me plenty of detail from the negatives ( I hope)
Hi, I came here by your invitation from a comment I made on a different video about shooting 35 mm. LOOKS GREAT! Really great stuff, man. I'd never thought about subjects in a hallway and such before. Cool stuff. The Pentax 17 is just too expensive for this photographer though. I have an F6 and all the glass to go with it over years of investment. I've been shooting Kodak Tungsten with an 85 filter in sunlight recently in an attempt to get that 80's film look. I don't want to buy a new camera, so I'm just going to use the F6 and all the different glass I have for it. One thing that is a pain is that I need to keep notes on which lenses I have an an 85 for. So... later I will have to figure out a "best practices" way of cropping to achieve the 17 mm look. I don't really have any point to this youtube comment; I'm just talking shop. have a good one!
Awesome stuff! I'm with you about shooting with what you have. I love my Canon A1 and its AE-1P little brother, with their lenses, and I'd probably reach for the A1 in most situations. And $500 is quite a bit to justify--I felt the effects of that in last month's CC bill (ugh!). I look at the 17 as a fun camera to toss in the bag when I am doing something serious with the others--example, a few weeks back I went shooting macro at the park on the A1, but the 17 came along for the ride and saw use. One thing that I find kind of freeing about a camera like the 17 is that it doesn't tell me what it is doing, so I don't bother to take notes. On every other camera I shoot, I always take copious notes for each shot, and that does slow down the flow sometimes. Keep on enjoying the F6 and your collection of lenses. Go out there and shoot a roll!
I print half frame (oly Pen FV) HP5 quite a bit. My main tips: - Pyro devlopers work well (510 in particular), the stain help take a little extra edge off the grain - For the enlarger, I use a 40mm schneider. It was made for square format 35mm (like the Robot), but works well for half frame too. When I got mine the prices (vs other schneider enlarger lenses) weren't too bad.
Thanks for the tip! I just found one on eBay, with M39 ring, and a Beseler 67c lens board, and snapped them up. Not very cheap ($150 for it all) but I shoot a LOT of half frame--I love the Pentax--so it's worth it to be able to use a more appropriate setup in my enlarger.
My 40mm Schneider lens arrived today and I did a few prints. It definitely brought the enlarger head down (18cm vs 28cm before) but I was surprised when I didn't see any improvement in the long exposure times. Then I realized that if I am filling the same 5x7 area to the top and bottom edges with light, it's not magically stronger light, it's just closer light, so any change in exposure times will really only be marginal. Still, I'm happy to be able to work with the head at a more reasonable height.
Cool! To date, my main focus problems are all attributed to user error--I'm shooting photos of a bridge and find myself wondering "How long has this been set to Two People?" Argh!
Nice video and sweet prints! FYI you cannot focus the camera in the Automatic setting. It becomes a fixed focus camera - even though you can still turn the focus ring. Pentax can do that because the focus ring is electronically connected to the lens, not mechanically. Weird choice by Pentax, but there you have it.
Wow, I didn't know that. Since I don't like flash surprises I have avoided Auto and missed out on this feature. But it's right there in the docs. Thanks!
I received my 17 yesterday, and my mode wheel is actually not loose at all and I have no issues cocking the shutter and wiggling it. It may be the first run of the manufacture had the issue and they fixed it in the second run to meet demand? I will see if it gets looser over time, but as it is now, it feels just fine and stays where I set it.
Just to clarify my own take on it, the mode dial feels probably just like it was designed to feel, and turns quite smoothly. It's mostly my huge hands that end up fumble-fingering the dial when I reach to cock the lever. I'm working on making sure I leave the lever out between shots. Beware, as mentioned in other comments, the AUTO mode makes the camera a fixed-focus camera, ignoring your choice of "mountain" or "dinner plate". That's right in the manual. I'd avoid that specific mode and stick with one of the P modes. Go out and have fun, it's such a cool camera!
I tseems very silly to me to actually photograph your negatives with a digital camera to avoid them being digital when you took them. I think it would have been way more practical and convenient and better to just use your digital fuji in the first place. Unless off course you like it this way.
You're absolutely right--it gives me a chuckle when I am using the Fujifilm camera to scan in negatives...why not cut out the middle man and just shoot with my X-Pro2? It's like those guys who listen to vinyl records, they do it because they like vinyl. I love film and the look it gives me. Besides, the digital scans are really only used as proof sheets for my negatives (and to share online). I am making traditional enlarger prints of these photos in my darkroom. Want to know some sillier? When I was out with my Pentax 17 shooting half-frame grainy HP5 Plus, I could have always taken out my iPhone and taken technically better photos.
@@TadTadd I like that you`re being honest about it, and not pretend like film is so much better an magical and stuff. I listen to vinyl too. It`s inpractical and cd is better but there is just something about it. Happy analog.
I've recently been bitten by the Analog Bug. Started using film and listening to vinyl in the same month. Something about the process and anticipation for film and the flaws of both film and vinyl add something to the experience that is satisfying/relaxing. Guess an enlarger and darkroom setup will get added to the record player and film development kit pretty soon.
I can't even imagine who on earth would want to buy this camera - I went through the half frame era in the late 60s early 70s with Olympus Pen EE and Pen F cameras when it was a good idea to get 75 photos on one 36 exposure film. But these days there are so many excellent digital cameras with great zoom capabilities, accurate auto exposure systems and excellent pocketability, that can take at least a thousand images on a reusable SD card. This camera is 50 years too late and rediculously overpriced.
As I am walking the streets of a nearby town taking half frame photos in grainy black and white on HP5 Plus, I consider the irony that my phone in my pocket will take better photos than anything I could possibly capture with my camera, and I can see them instantly. More irony? I use my iPhone for much of my video recording. We live in amazing times, where you are able to have an awesome digital camera that does far better than the cameras you used in the 60s and 70s. Use the tools that bring you joy! But I love the magic of film. I love the forced slowdown in the creative process. I love the look of film. I love the darkroom. It's like audiophiles who enjoy collecting and listening to vinyl--only the most zealous will claim that vinyl objectively sounds better; the others consider the imperfections and all of the trappings of vinyl as part of the art form.
@@TadTadd Enjoy your half frame film photography - I respect the fact that we are all free to choose our preferences - mine are digital cameras and Photoshop.
Some details I left out...
The rolls of film were HP5 Plus, developed in HC-110 Dilution B with standard agitation of 1 minute with 10s every minute for 5 minutes--basically the default from the Massive Dev Chart.
The prints were made on Ilford Multigrade RC Deluxe Glossy paper, developed in Ilford Multigrade Developer at 1+9 for 1 minute.
Note that grain is more prominent in the digital scans, making the grain look exaggerated. The darkroom prints look much better, if only because they are smaller than the 27" screen on my iMac. I figured that if I can get away with chunky grain from HP5, then surely a tighter-grained film like TMax 100 would look awesome in half-frame.
I mentioned a few quibbles (battery cover screw, power switch, mode knob), but forgot to mention a few others:
1) the viewfinder is plastic--this part really should be glass
2) You can't tell if the take-up spool is turning when rewinding film; on a camera like the Canons there is a little dot on the button you press to start rewinding that rotates as you rewind, showing that the sprocket is still turning. This makes it easier to leave the leader out.
3) The rewind lever has an annoying steep angle and folds up on itself too easily when rewinding. Other cameras do this too--my Nikon S3 is a prime offender--but the Canon A-1 did it right and the lever lays flat when rewinding.
As noted by @husshardan3511 below, the Pentax manual says that the "Auto" position will result in a single fixed-focus with a small aperture...not my idea of cool, so I will stick with either of the P modes, depending on whether or not I want flash.
None of these quibbles are worth worrying about in my opinion--every camera has annoyances.
This is such a nice relaxed and well done review of the Pentax 17. I ordered one and can’t wait to receive it and start having fun with it. It will be my first film camera since my teenage years!!
Loved the story and presentation. The style of the photos you showed were thought provoking. Thank You for sharing.
Thanks! I had fun putting those photos together, and I felt they represent the spontaneity that suits the 17 best (for me).
Excellent video 😮!
Thanks! I was out today shooting more with the Pentax 17 and plan on a followup video, just to show that the novelty hasn't worn off, and to share what a few months of use has taught me.
Seriously, you are a great story teller who knows what he's talking about and knows how to bring it across. You're also a good photographer, shooting the right subjects for this neat little camera. A big surprise was the image of the man in the park. So much detail with a half frame camera, yet so much mood by not being tack sharp. Really enjoyed your video!!!
Thanks for the kind words. You made my day!
Great presentation. You definitely have a warm and engaging delivery. You also make me want this camera. Subscribed.
Thanks for the kind words! And I think anyone who can get over the initial price will find this little camera is just fun to use.
What an awesome review. Made me smile. Thanks
Thanks! And I still am shooting with the 17!
Amazing video. Dreaming about getting this camera, watched lots of videos about Pentax 17 and yours I enjoyed the most ❤
Thanks for the kind words! And I haven't tired of the camera--every time I want to shoot, I look over my various older 35mm cameras, but the Pentax is just fun to shoot. I went out shooting on Friday in preparation for a video on B&W film developing for a friend, and the camera of choice was the Pentax 17!
Nice overview. I enjoyed the info you included about the enlarger and negative carrier.
I'm really on the fence about picking one up. The main thing that bothers me is the f3.5 lens. I envision this as a everyday carry to capture daily life, but many of those shots would be indoors and I'm not a big fan of flash in a scene. It would be no problem to just run some 800 speed through it, but then when I go outside the shutter caps out at 350/Sec.
Other than that, it looks like a perfect "always have on you" kinda camera.
Thanks! I agree about the shutter/lens limitations--that's why I don't leave film in it. I normally bulk load 15 normal-shot rolls of HP5 with the intent of shooting all 30 frames and developing the same day. Last week when I went out to shoot some TMax 100, I split a standard 36 frame roll into two 16 frame rolls (more or less) and shot all of one of those, rather than leaving the camera tied up with some film I might not want to use. Since I have lots of HP5, I can push to 1600 without much concern, at the cost of added contrast, again shooting a short enough roll to have the whole thing done in one outing.
Who knows, maybe I'll gravitate to leaving it always with some HP5 in it. Anyway, it's all about having fun.
You're probably thinking Roy Lichtenstein for the "dot" pics. But I knew what you meant and I have the fears for my Pentax 17. Great video and love the content!
I actually feared the photos would look pixellated like Minecraft! Fortunately the reality has been much better than that. In recent weeks I have been shooting TMax 100 and the grain is tight, so it does a good job on the 17. With that said, even grainy HP5 Plus retains its charm in the 17.
great video man ❤️
Thanks! I really like this little camera and want other photographers to know what it can do--it's definitely not a fit for everyone.
Great overview / review of this camera. It is actually a really nice camera and the built quality is actually also good. a lot of reviews here on TH-cam do not seem to like half frame cameras due to its "lesser resolution". So I was actually very surprised by how good the quality the actual frames are when I got my first roll from development. I understand that it is a trade-off but getting 72 frames is huge! And again the quantity is actually very good. It's very nice seeing you pointing this out with your darkroom prints, which look absolutely amazing on print. The Pentax 17 is my every day analog camera.
Thanks! Just don't ever use the AUTO setting. The little Pentax 17 is calling me every day when I am heading out. On Sunday I took my Canon A1 to the park for some macro shots ... and tossed the Pentax in the bag. In the end I shot as much with the Pentax as with the full-frame camera. Today when I went to the YMCA I grabbed the 17 again and shot another (short) roll after my run. It's such a fun little camera. Enjoy!
I love these minimalist photos you took and how you presented them to us. Thank you!
Thank you! I had a great time shooting and wanted to share.
Thanks for an interesting review, I love my 17 and agree it is a camera to just take with you and have fun. Seeing your scanning setup and hints on the darkroom exposure were a nice addition.
Thanks! I'm still going to get around to posting a more detailed video about the scanning setup for half frame--digital camera scanning is an amazing tool for film shooters, as it gives us really high quality proofs, which we can share as photos in their own right with our friends and family.
@@TadTadd I have yet to scan my first roll, I have the old Pentax bellows and slide/film copying setup, but I need an extra extension tube to mount the camera on the bellows. I plan on using the K3iii Mono camera which should give me plenty of detail from the negatives ( I hope)
I love how pentax17 calculate the exposure, it always on point. Cool youtube video. Keep it up man.
Thank you! I'm still taking the 17 with me whenever I feel like shooting. It's a fun little camera--just don't ever put it in AUTO mode!
Hi, I came here by your invitation from a comment I made on a different video about shooting 35 mm. LOOKS GREAT! Really great stuff, man. I'd never thought about subjects in a hallway and such before. Cool stuff. The Pentax 17 is just too expensive for this photographer though. I have an F6 and all the glass to go with it over years of investment. I've been shooting Kodak Tungsten with an 85 filter in sunlight recently in an attempt to get that 80's film look. I don't want to buy a new camera, so I'm just going to use the F6 and all the different glass I have for it. One thing that is a pain is that I need to keep notes on which lenses I have an an 85 for. So... later I will have to figure out a "best practices" way of cropping to achieve the 17 mm look. I don't really have any point to this youtube comment; I'm just talking shop. have a good one!
Awesome stuff! I'm with you about shooting with what you have. I love my Canon A1 and its AE-1P little brother, with their lenses, and I'd probably reach for the A1 in most situations. And $500 is quite a bit to justify--I felt the effects of that in last month's CC bill (ugh!).
I look at the 17 as a fun camera to toss in the bag when I am doing something serious with the others--example, a few weeks back I went shooting macro at the park on the A1, but the 17 came along for the ride and saw use.
One thing that I find kind of freeing about a camera like the 17 is that it doesn't tell me what it is doing, so I don't bother to take notes. On every other camera I shoot, I always take copious notes for each shot, and that does slow down the flow sometimes.
Keep on enjoying the F6 and your collection of lenses. Go out there and shoot a roll!
I print half frame (oly Pen FV) HP5 quite a bit. My main tips:
- Pyro devlopers work well (510 in particular), the stain help take a little extra edge off the grain
- For the enlarger, I use a 40mm schneider. It was made for square format 35mm (like the Robot), but works well for half frame too. When I got mine the prices (vs other schneider enlarger lenses) weren't too bad.
Thanks for the tip! I just found one on eBay, with M39 ring, and a Beseler 67c lens board, and snapped them up.
Not very cheap ($150 for it all) but I shoot a LOT of half frame--I love the Pentax--so it's worth it to be able to use a more appropriate setup in my enlarger.
My 40mm Schneider lens arrived today and I did a few prints. It definitely brought the enlarger head down (18cm vs 28cm before) but I was surprised when I didn't see any improvement in the long exposure times. Then I realized that if I am filling the same 5x7 area to the top and bottom edges with light, it's not magically stronger light, it's just closer light, so any change in exposure times will really only be marginal. Still, I'm happy to be able to work with the head at a more reasonable height.
@@TadTadd my setup is a bit low brow (intrepid compact on a tripod), so the lower height really helps minimise vibration.
18:54 You’re right, sir. “Group of people” is 2.1-5.3m (6.9 to 17 ft). Plenty of play to not worry about exact distances.
Cool! To date, my main focus problems are all attributed to user error--I'm shooting photos of a bridge and find myself wondering "How long has this been set to Two People?" Argh!
Nice video and sweet prints! FYI you cannot focus the camera in the Automatic setting. It becomes a fixed focus camera - even though you can still turn the focus ring. Pentax can do that because the focus ring is electronically connected to the lens, not mechanically. Weird choice by Pentax, but there you have it.
Wow, I didn't know that. Since I don't like flash surprises I have avoided Auto and missed out on this feature. But it's right there in the docs. Thanks!
I received my 17 yesterday, and my mode wheel is actually not loose at all and I have no issues cocking the shutter and wiggling it. It may be the first run of the manufacture had the issue and they fixed it in the second run to meet demand? I will see if it gets looser over time, but as it is now, it feels just fine and stays where I set it.
Just to clarify my own take on it, the mode dial feels probably just like it was designed to feel, and turns quite smoothly. It's mostly my huge hands that end up fumble-fingering the dial when I reach to cock the lever.
I'm working on making sure I leave the lever out between shots.
Beware, as mentioned in other comments, the AUTO mode makes the camera a fixed-focus camera, ignoring your choice of "mountain" or "dinner plate". That's right in the manual. I'd avoid that specific mode and stick with one of the P modes.
Go out and have fun, it's such a cool camera!
I tseems very silly to me to actually photograph your negatives with a digital camera to avoid them being digital when you took them.
I think it would have been way more practical and convenient and better to just use your digital fuji in the first place.
Unless off course you like it this way.
You're absolutely right--it gives me a chuckle when I am using the Fujifilm camera to scan in negatives...why not cut out the middle man and just shoot with my X-Pro2? It's like those guys who listen to vinyl records, they do it because they like vinyl. I love film and the look it gives me.
Besides, the digital scans are really only used as proof sheets for my negatives (and to share online). I am making traditional enlarger prints of these photos in my darkroom.
Want to know some sillier? When I was out with my Pentax 17 shooting half-frame grainy HP5 Plus, I could have always taken out my iPhone and taken technically better photos.
@@TadTadd I like that you`re being honest about it, and not pretend like film is so much better an magical and stuff.
I listen to vinyl too. It`s inpractical and cd is better but there is just something about it.
Happy analog.
I've recently been bitten by the Analog Bug. Started using film and listening to vinyl in the same month. Something about the process and anticipation for film and the flaws of both film and vinyl add something to the experience that is satisfying/relaxing. Guess an enlarger and darkroom setup will get added to the record player and film development kit pretty soon.
I can't even imagine who on earth would want to buy this camera - I went through the half frame era in the late 60s early 70s with Olympus Pen EE and Pen F cameras when it was a good idea to get 75 photos on one 36 exposure film. But these days there are so many excellent digital cameras with great zoom capabilities, accurate auto exposure systems and excellent pocketability, that can take at least a thousand images on a reusable SD card. This camera is 50 years too late and rediculously overpriced.
As I am walking the streets of a nearby town taking half frame photos in grainy black and white on HP5 Plus, I consider the irony that my phone in my pocket will take better photos than anything I could possibly capture with my camera, and I can see them instantly.
More irony? I use my iPhone for much of my video recording.
We live in amazing times, where you are able to have an awesome digital camera that does far better than the cameras you used in the 60s and 70s. Use the tools that bring you joy!
But I love the magic of film. I love the forced slowdown in the creative process. I love the look of film. I love the darkroom.
It's like audiophiles who enjoy collecting and listening to vinyl--only the most zealous will claim that vinyl objectively sounds better; the others consider the imperfections and all of the trappings of vinyl as part of the art form.
@@TadTadd Enjoy your half frame film photography - I respect the fact that we are all free to choose our preferences - mine are digital cameras and Photoshop.