I love how you glossed over the part where Bruce rightfully calls ghostmaker out on projecting his insecurities onto Him and tells him straight up that he's broken and just mad that Bruce or all his issues isn't as broken as him.
I feel like you might be over simplifying the kid. He’s been on a rampage killing criminals and got saw style kidnapped when Batman and another dude were fighting over him. Him deciding to leave was likely because he understood the chaos that Harley got herself in because he got into it himself.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most "normal" people would have done the same as the kid there. It's one thing to kill a bunch of murderers in a riot, it's another to kill a person you're looking in the eye who's crying as they explain their regret and how they've changed. ...Especially as they submit their life to you. Most people aren't as mindless and base as Rob believes. Not by a long shot.
@@Gray963 This is why Rob will never win the Batman should kill debate. One, Rob believes that people cannot self govern themselves and that the people will not do the right thing off their own accord. As if most people want to just cause harm to one another for no good reason. Two, Rob says if villians are given a chance of reforming or staying a villian that they will choose to stay a villian. Why, because that's what they are use to and its easier than to work hard for something. As if people can't change. Their are plenty examples of people who lived a life of crime, payed for it and came out wanting to do something else. Some go off to become highly successful in life. Some reach back to teach others not to make the same mistakes. But in the end they changed. All in all Rob argument is that people can't change. Somebody else needs to tell you how to live. Somebody else knows exactly the paradise you want to live. And if you make a mistake of becoming a criminal that you should die. Because killing one person can stop all crime in the world from happening ever again.
@@mr.dccomics9018 Seriously. Fully agreed. He doesn't provide any evidence or concrete statements. Just straw men and sweeping generalizations that don't match reality at all. Some places in the world like Norway have a nearly 100% reform rate for criminals and objectively prove the philosophy valid. People do good things for no reward MOST of the time. Look how many people give charity, how many humanitarian organizations there are, how many millions support philanthropic movements. To counter his argument: look how few shopping carts are 'actually' in parking lots vs the thousands that go each day. Most people have been shitty for a good chunk of their lives and grew up to be better. Growing up and learning is a thing that exists. Humanity exists because of it. He also seems to be ignorant of the fact that humanity self governed for thousands of years in many forms to great success. Back before the kind of "necessary evils" he argues for slaughtered everyone and formed barbaric empires like Rome. The types of empires and tactics we don't need anymore because they fell, we've learned better, and we've evolved to the point we can prevent them. He just gaslights his viewers like he's trying to indoctrinate them into this nihilistic pessimistic worldview that supports brutal authoritarianism and it's surreal. Probably to validate whatever chip he's got on his shoulder but I'm not here to psychoanalyze him. I can't be sure how self aware he is but it sure seems he's smart enough to preach the message without calling it what it is. I like the guy but he's clearly had some very messed up people/experiences drive him down this rabbit hole and he seems like he's gotten worse every time I check his videos. I'm not saying we should cancel Rob or anything. I'm far more empathetic and forgiving then he is. But people seriously need to call it for what it is more.
@@Gray963 all true man, everything you said, I agree. At first I didn't mind that Rob wanted Batman to kill because he's not the first to say it. I heard plenty of people say that Batman should kill The Joker. That's not new to me, usually I hear and shrouge it off and pay it no attention. My problem with Rob is that he keeps going on and on about it like he has a personal vendetta against Batman. He doesn't put any other characters into that conversation on should somebody kill. Rob is a Marvel guy yet he doesn't mention Spiderman or The Xmen, Avengers, Guardians etc. No its only Batman who's the problem.
I honestly can't believe you're telling us Ghostmaker's motivation is fully altruistic at the same time as you're showing us a panel where he categorically states that his motivation is purely and entirely about ego. He doesn't care about making the world a better place at all, he's only doing so because of "the ART of it". He only cares about himself and his own ego, he is the furthest thing from an altruist I can possibly imagine.
@@jakejake8985 Yeah, making him exactly as evil as the Joker. He's a really irredeemable character. But that's sort of the point of the ending. Not only does Batman care about Clown Hunter, he cares about Ghost Maker too. Batman is a paragon, he does what's moral, that's what makes him impressive. Killing is easy, caring is hard.
You guys are looking at this completely the wrong way! Ghost-maker does what he does because he is capable of doing it and because he is a good enough person to do it. The above is important when you look at law enforcement in the real world the motivation is usually money, some people dream of being a cop true but if you consider ghost-makers actions to be egocentric then the same can be said about kids who have dreams of becoming a cop, at the end of the day all things can be said to steel from desire or compulsion. Wanting to do something or doing it because you can’t stop, it’s like masturbating cause you want to verses doing it because of addiction but not wanting to. If Ghost-maker is saving people because it’s his desire and he is capable I see no issue. You people fail to understand there are people in the real world who own small islands have billions of dollars in the bank account that could benefit society in a multitude of ways and if they did it no one would care if it was due to ego or not as long as the job is done correctly. As such Ghost-maker can’t be said to be irredeemable from a moral point because all humans make selfish decisions, living your life the way you want with no compromise is egotistical in itself. However Ghost-maker lives to create a perfect society no matter the cost, and believing your capable of making a utopia while sacrificing nothing is childish (Batman). In reality Ghost-maker has Batman’s tactics and technical ability while having more realistic morals on how to deal with crime, he does because of “the art of it” but then again everyone has there own desires. This is the most important part at the end of the day Ghost-maker is helping society and his own desire is insignificant to the end result which is a uptopia and he realises and that’s why he will kill. Batman on the other hand acknowledges his own desire of not wanting to kill anyone or sacrifice anything other then himself and those close to him to create a haven where everyone is reformed and there are no deaths and yet the Joker and other villains who are unrepentant kills exist, his desire effects the rest of society negatively. It goes back to the question would you kill someone that is going to kill millions. It’s people like Batman allowing the Batman who laughs to live that causes the death of entire universes, all because some kid is still fighting a crime that ended. If Ghost-maker was on the justice league regardless of his desires wouldn’t it make the multiverse a better place if he made the decision to kill those that mean the world, universe, multiverse harm? And yet Death Metal strikes.
@@goofuslankius but allowing the same criminals to be locked up to eventually get and kill again is happening. I mean how many parents has The Joker killed that wasn't fortunate to be wealthy? Literally goes against what he stands for in letting The Joker live. Batman: At least if I can save The Joker then Gotham is a better. Citizens of Gotham: 10,000 people are dead from a wide spread Joker Toxin.
I feel like Rob misses the underlying or sometimes greater point of most Batman comics because he has such strong bias against Batman's way of not killing
I like watching Robs videos and I've also noticed he throws in several time "that's just how the world is" arguments to justify the utilitarian means to an end philosophy. Batman is better than that and the writers know it.
Ghost Maker is not altruistic. His attitude towards people is revealed in the words, "we were the only ones smart enough to gather the skills [to fix the world]". It takes a huge ego to think that you're the one to fix the world and a deep-seated selfishness to believe that your way is the only way. He states that he isn't doing all this for glory, but he actually is. It's self glorification of his values, his vision for the world and a complete disregard for everyone to prove himself right. You can't be wanting to make the world a better place for everyone out of love for humanity, when you consider everyone inferior to you. In many ways, he demonstrates the same personality of the MCU Thanos. Was Thanos altruistic?
This is why Rob will never win the Batman should kill case. One he believes that people cannot self govern themselves and two, he believes people will not do the right thing off their own accord. As if everybody is so messed up that we are incapable of doing the right thing. Next, Rob says that if villians had to choose between reforming or being a villian that they would choose to stay a villian. Why, because thats what they are use two and its easier to be a criminal vs working hard for something. Which is complete BS. There are plenty of people who live a life of crime and turned their life around to become highly successful.
@@mr.dccomics9018 As a society, especially in the USA, the rights of the individual are becoming so important that Rob is being honest when he says that in his experience people will always choose the easiest path to personal gain. But that statement is influenced by the people he associates with. However, this story really illustrates how society has changed so much that what many define as a "hero" is fundamentally different to 80 years ago when Batman was first created. He is a character that existed before global terrorism, before the USA had 40k fatal shootings each year, before the UK had violent extremists knifing random people in the streets and France didn't have teachers being decapitated by parents. In less than 100 years the world has become a more brutal, self-centered and heartless place. So its no wonder that people, who allow their thinking to be shaped by the current atmosphere of our society, to see heroism in characters who are heartless but are directing that callousness towards people who are even worse. Ghost Maker is essentially what Batman would be if he was created in the 21st century and that's what makes this story so interesting because its shining a light on how dark the world has become when there is little difference between a hero and a villian.
@@KryyssTV its exactly why so many people have a hard time accepting Superman. Because he's a reflection of how far so many people have fallen, morally wise. People say he's too good and too powerful and that a character like that doesn't exist in the real world. You have writer's who are constantly trying to change him so he can be more " modern and relatable". As if being a blood thirsty vigilante is normal. At the end of it all I believe most people have forgotten what it truly means to be heroic or what it should really look like.
@@mr.dccomics9018 Like Rob said, doing the right thing is hard and most people just don't try. But that means not exercising self-control which in itself is a skill meaning the less you control yourself the harder it becomes to be disciplined. Society has now reached the point where self-control is a bad thing, this is shown by a culture that says - be yourself. So when someone comes along who does exercise self-control like Kal-El, Bruce Wayne or Steve Rogers they're seen as unrealistic because the personalities of these characters is very rare in modern times.
@@KryyssTV exactly, I comes down to people who want characters that represent them. Its the battle of discipline people vs undisciplined people. Batman and Superman represent people who go to the gym everyday and practice discipline. They are the ones who become Mr. Olympia. The people who are complaining are the ones who are undisciplined and want Batman and Superman to have a cheat meal because they say going to the gym to train is too hard. So they want Batman and Superman to slack off and become relatable so they can feel good about being a under achiever.
Except that happens in the real world all the time, Rob. People forgive when they are raised to do so. Maybe you only know(through media) bad people, but TV isn't real. The reporters put their masks on right before going on camera so they can be seen taking it off, as if they had it on the whole time. That isn't reality. Most families want justice, not revenge. They absolutely forgive for sincere apologies. It happens all the time. Apologies are the rarity.
Agreed, I have watched all of Rob's Batman vids since New 52 and he really seems to believe that characters and situations in comic books are a reflection of reality. They are not. They are fictional stories, with fictional characters. It is a horrible idea to build a worldview off of them, but that seems to be what he has done.
I finally realize why Rob so passionately hates Batman. It's because Batman is an optimist who revolves around proving pessimism wrong, and Rob is a pessimist. Rob would make a great Batman villain.
@@IsThatNas just leave him be, from what I see he spends his time in this comment section being toxic to everyone he disagrees with while calling cookie cutter insults like: childish, naive, pathetic etc.
Rob know’s the difference between an unrealistic view of how to be a good hero, and what to do when you have a mass murderer who’s never gonna stop killing.
I finally realize why Rob so passionately hates Batman. It's because Batman is an optimist who revolves around proving pessimism wrong, and Rob is a pessimist. Rob would make a great Batman villain.
@@Gray963 I say the same about people who hate superman, lol. yeah Rob also has a problem with Cap and a lot of his rants devolve into these " might makes right" justifications.
I finally realize why Rob so passionately hates Batman. It's because Batman is an optimist who revolves around proving pessimism wrong, and Rob is a pessimist. Rob would make a great Batman villain.
Batman typically doesn't prove pessimism wrong, Rob also likely doesn't hate Batman, seems obvious he just sees that Batman is written for what he is, a psychopath with unrealistic standards.
I always thought that Batman started his war on crime to never let what happened to him and his parents happen to anyone ever again. Which you could view as an act of revenge but I would argue is actually an act of protection and compassion because he has never killed anyone including Joe Chill. The very man that killed his parents, but instead he has tried to show them a better way and protected those who would have been hurt and comforted those who were. That’s why Clownhunter is so interesting because he is out for revenge of what happened to his parents and has chosen to kill anyone involved and as for him not killing Harley Quinn I think that’s totally in the realm of believability because these characters are supposed to be at least part human and humans make mistakes and humans can change if they choose to. Then the argument that Batman should kill the Joker, No he should not. Batman should not kill the Joker because it goes against everything Batman stands for and if he does then the Joker ultimately wins. And killing people even people like the Joker is wrong no matter what he’s done. Will killing him save other people’s lives, yes. Is he to far gone and past the point of redemption, no. Now will Batman ever be able to guide the Joker onto the path of redemption, we don’t know. But whether he does or he doesn’t the Joker will pay for his actions one way or another. And so will everyone else including Clownhunter, Ghost Maker, Harley Quinn, and even Batman.
I think i saw a panel of the golden age batman where it shows the Waynes had another son before Bruce who was brain damaged and institutionalized. Might be the Joker is his bro and that is the reason he can't kill him.
@@calvinheslop2585 oh wow....see what we created...search Rob's channel for Beyond Omega Level Resurrection Man....and bask in all of the glory of our victory
It drives me nuts that people use the mind numbing argument: "if Batman was right/good then Gotham would be fixed". Like... bro... do you get the concept of comics? Of a 'series'? Stop being in denial! Stop desperately trying to prove a character wrong just because your a messed up pessimist or whatever! I mean there are even stories where he DOES save Gotham, including canonical ones that take place in the future. People who hate on characters like Batman for these reasons are so transparent it hurts. I'd feel bad for them but seriously, suck it up! Stop taking your issues out on positive stuff meant to inspire people! It's selfish and absurd.
@@Gray963 these are the points of the american system and in the end, Donald Trump being on trial is pointless, as pointless has Batman's fight against crime in Gotham...other than a fuel for "today's" media.
I really don't think Joker should be used as proof that Batman needs to start killing his criminals. Joker is such a unique and extreme example of malevolence that I don't think he can be applied to any sort of universal crime-fighting philosophy. He is an exception to all rules because he thrives in the absence of rules, A.K.A. chaos.
Vegeta crying to Frieza: You killed all my people, I hate you. Also Vegeta: *snaps fingers and annihilates an entire planet which he just liberated in passing for literally no reason*
Hey Rob, can you explain: 1) RESURRECTION MAN 2)Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter) 3)The Mother of Existence 4)Kang the Conqueror 5)Mogo the Living Planet 6)Crimson Dynamo (Valetin Shatalov) 7)Bat-Mite 8)Blue Beetle(Jaime Reyes) 9)Solomon Grundy 10)Etrigan 11)Hellboy 12)The Young Avengers 13)Judge Death 14)The Tick 15)The Mask 16)Hawkman & Hawkgirl 17)the Mandarin 18)Steel 19)The Eradicator 20)Cyborg Superman 21)Reptil 22)the Doom Patrol 23)The Key(DC) 24)Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) 25)Lobster Johnson 26)Trigon 27)Mata Nui What If scenarios: Darkseid gets a Cosmic Cube Darkseid invades Mega City One Lobo vs. Homelander & The Seven Ultra Man fights Homelander and The Seven Judge Death gets a Astral Regulator Judge Death meets Gorr the God Butcher Judge Dredd meets Billy Butcher & The Boys Unicron battles Shuma-Gorath Mangog battles Doomsday All Might becomes Captain Universe Manchester Black & The Elite fight Homelander & The Seven Judge Death gets Black, Red, Orange & Yellow Lantern Rings Hellboy & the BPRD meet Judge Dredd Beyond Omega Level: Odin’s Doom(Ultimate Alliance Final Boss Dr Doom)
Rob scares me with this insanity sometimes. It's not only inappropriate and sucks the fun out of everything but can lean into some genuinely disturbing nihilistic pessimism. Like, I get it Rob. You got a chip on your shoulder, but stop venting your biases and let us enjoy the vids.
That ending was great. It’s been years since we got a new member to the bat family & someone that is extremely capable. Can’t wait to read ghostmaker stories
The best thing about him is that he's not Bruce's soldier, he's Bruce's equal friend, this fact can provide so much new and fun chemistry in the family.
I find it creepy how I can mostly, agree with Ghostmaker’s view. Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with all his actions but many of his opinions make a lot of sense.
She's 100% responsible for her actions. It's a really really weak temporary insanity argument. She's arguing that she knew but considered the consequences less terrible than the reward of Joker caring for her to be worth those lives. Her feelings were worth their lives
She’s making the argument that she was psychotic,in fact she’s not even making an argument she’s just telling her story. She said if you want to kill me,I understand
@@akealiihall7251 yeah, she said she was sorry and she’s been trying to make up for it all this time. It’s not her fault she’s crazy, The Joker is very manipulative.
@@jamestheawsome100 But she is still responsible for her actions you cant just say oh he manipulated me in assisting him on killing thousandths call me ignorant but I will never truly believe Harley is a good guy
Ya, Harley Quinn is not a good person and I don’t think DC can make her into a good guy bc her history is just too horrific. It’s like turning the Zodiac Killer into a superhero. They should just lean into her sadistic side
I think you're grossly misinterpreting Ghostmaker, Rob. His motivation isn't "to make the world a better place". He keeps going on about the ART of it. How HE'S the only one smart and skilled enough to fix the world. It's completely an ego thing. Ghostmaker is the villain.
The fact that a character want to make a Utopia for the world is ego centric too. I'm like who do you think you are to believe you know exactly what the world should want. As if everybody wants the same thing. Its complete Bs.
And what exactly is wrong with saving the world even if your motivation is ego? If not that then what's the motivation, "Objective good"? That's not objectively definable so eventually Ghostmaker would run out of motivation where as ego can be near limitless. Sure it could be a weakness but just because ego(the means) is considered bad by some doesn't mean the ends(Not a utopia, but certainly a better one than Batmans future lmao) is unjustifiable.
@@mr.dccomics9018 Ghostmaker clearly doesn't care what the world wants, because the world is the reason it's gotten to the point it did. He has the almost the same motivation as Ra's Al Ghul to some extent, and that mindset of correction isn't neccesarily wrong it's just seen as inferior to those living in the "Free world".
In regards to the grocery cart probablem: I usually put the cart away, not because I care about other people or see it as the right thing to do, but because it ultimately makes things easier in the picture. It annoys me when other people leave their carts, so I don't want to contribute to a world where everybody leaves their carts lying around. That world would be harder on me. I think the least effort principle applies, but only when individual perspective is considered.
@Gabriel Vinícius do Nascimento It's way more nuanced than that. She's someone who's gone through a long hard character arc of realizing her flaws. She was manipulated and realized that, and strives to do better. She *was* a victim and she realizes even with that as a fact, it was still her own choice. She takes responsibility for her mistakes. She doesn't play victim, even if she was one, and is willing to deal with the cards she was dealt because of her own weakness and take responsibility. There's a nuance here between taking responsibility for one's weakness that lead to becoming a victim of abuse and manipulation, and being a victim. Were she just to tell him "Yeah well the Joker manipulated me, I was a victim, so sorry!" then yes, it was be "Being victimized". But here, she's explaining why she did what she did, she shows regret, she acknowledges why she screwed up, she also acknowledges that even if she forgot she did it, she did make a mistake. And she was willing to, despite the option to run and absolve herself of the responsibility, stay and take that responsibility. Harley here isn't being Victimized, but rather coming face to face with the damage she caused, and willing to at least absolve one person's pain and suffering. This is more nuanced than 'being victimized'.
What you were talking about at around the 16:00 mark: It does make me wonder how the joker will react if he knew his wife and son were alive in Alaska. Probably just stalk and terrorize them, sure. But I wonder what the thought process would be at first. Their “deaths” WERE the final straw in him become the joker.
So how slow is this ClownKiller kid that Batman was able to break free, throw a Batarang to Harley, and the Harley cut herself free and stop him before he killed her?
I've spent the whole video trying to figure that one out, myself. It's not like it was in a moment of distraction, Clown Killer was already in mid swing.
@@axelaliens153 You must not of seen when she was fast enough to take WonderWoman's Lasso of Truth off her flip over both her and Batman and then wrap it around Batman's neck smh
Gotta say I think you're dangerously misinterpreting/projecting your own philosophies onto this story. You say a bunch of truisms and then generalize about human nature but then don't really look at the point Tynion is trying to make.
I've been saying the same thing. It's so obvious that Rub is a kinda delusional pessimist after this one. Rob is seriously projecting onto Ghost-Maker. It's like he's seeing an entirely different character and another set of dialogue.
@@mr.dccomics9018 apparently you see life through rose colored lenses. Below are three examples of what teenagers are capable of doing to someone who gave them life or shares their blood. I agree, taking a life shouldn't be easy for anyone, let alone a fifteen year old nor should making an ass of yourself trolling someone's punchline. www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-virginia-killed-his-mom-6-year-old-brother-police-n1137391 www.cnn.com/2020/01/24/us/alabama-teenager-stab-mother-brothers/index.html meaww.com/gregory-ramos-florida-teen-pleads-guilty-kills-mother-fight-poor-grades-bury-body-church
@@tlee34792 He said it wasn’t easy. Not that it wasn’t done. Pretty sure the fact that you have three there and the world isn’t all “Children of the Corn” all over the place proved his point.
@@danielc.b.4537 there were many US teen murderers in 2020. Anyone arguing that I chosed 3 for an effect is an idiot disputing a mute point. To commit a heinous act of murder for a teenager isn't as hard as you wish, to be honest it doesn't even take one bad day, only teen angst, gall, and conviction.
Batman getting ghostmaker to join the bat family, I feel, is a low key way of the writers telling us that Batman’s philosophy won. If Batman were to listen to ghostmaker than Batman should have killed ghostmaker. However Batman believes that people can be saved no matter what. I would predict that ghostmaker being around the bat family, ghostmaker views will slowly start to change
Ah, another video where Rob gives a glimpse into his assumption that everyone is ultimately only driven by primal selfish interest, no matter what it means for other people. Surprised we didn't get another, "if my kid is hungry and the neighbor's kid is hungry and there's only one sandwich, I'd make sure even my kid eats even if I have to kill the other kid cuz ah well them's the breaks and everyone else definitely thinks the same way, right?"
Ghostmaker is a character that can add some much needed objectivity to Bruce's life. I really find the character interesting as well and I hope we see a lot more of him in the near future. That costume is also pretty badass.
Hard to do when Gotham is one of the most corrupt cities in DC. Villains go in and out of prison, high tech facilites, and even prisons designed to hold superpowered beings, like they were just walking through air.
I agree that corruption is the underlying problem. But we all know that if there was any sense "corruption" still wouldn't save the Joker. Everyone that knows, knows the Joker doesn't play by even the corrupt rules. Cobblepot, Sent, and Falkonies would be paying judges to speed this clown's death sentence to public firing squad in the court room.
@@m.mulder8864 I agree. Which is where the frustration with batman and Gotham comes from. Realistically, society would not tolerate these villains being alive. So for batman to tolerate them even at the cost of a severe loss of life, for Gotham to tolerate them, etc. Its..really stupid.
I absolutely love your side of the argument and attention to detail. I don’t ultimately agree with you on your perspective on Batman, but I respect the hell out of how you see things. Keep up the good work!
@@metrostatistics9807 He's completely ignored criticism of how he reviews Batman stories for years. I'd say it's been a long time coming. Besides, I still like his content overall. He's just 100% wrong about Batman.
Not everyone would be screaming for blood and lash out. Some ppl don't have it in them to be violent no matter how far you push them to the edge or over it
I think arguing that most people will choose the laziest way out and do the wrong thing is just as pessimistic as the alternative is optimistic. It's not one way or the other. Batman's stance is better because there is a lower opportunity cost for leaving every villain alive. On the other hand, I agree villains like the Joker need a permanent solution. The problem is, there are very few if any, villains like the Joker.
I kind of like Ghost-Makers idea for he and Bruce to travel the world together, stopping crime wherever it is. Establishing a kind of mini League of Shadows thing going on. This would make for an interesting elseworlds story.
I'm on the other side, I don't believe that most people would kill given the chance. I say they would have to be in a life threatening situation for them to go for the kill. I don't believe the average Joe would kill a person standing in front of them apologizing and begging to be killed.IMO
Love the videos! Long time watcher first time commenter Always wondered if their was another person(s) that make the videos with you? I ask because of your opening “if you like the videos WE are putting up..”
Pretty good story, Clown Hunter not killing Harley Quinn is a bit unrealistic, but not too far fetched. He is still a kid who doesn’t seem like he wants to commit heinous crimes in the same way the Joker or other members of Batman’s rogue gallery. His motivation is vengeance, similar to Batman. I do think that Ghost Maker is a very good addition and am looking forward to seeing what happens
All I got from this issue was the reinforcement that Harley Quinn has suffered zero consequences for her actions and deserves none of the clemency she's been given. 10/10.
"Any normal person would have stabbed them to death." ...Would they, though? Even in a spur of the moment situation, not everyone reacts the same way. You'll get people who'll absolutely lash out, but you'll also get people who will think more rationally and want justice in a different way. If anything I feel the way you've been looking at this storyline has been kinda telling about your view on society. Basically, if bad person keeps being bad, kill them; If person wronged by bad person is given a chance to do bad things to said person, they 100% will. It's kinda off-putting.
Ha I was about to quote the same line. It's pretty hard to kill someone. Look at the studies they did about how few soldiers in WWI actually fired their weapons.
To be honest, I agree with what he says. The idea that there's a perfect solution that can lead to peace without some sacrifice is a flawed one. Sometimes saving someone is not the right answer. And if you put yourself in a position of authority and responsibility but are not ready or willing to sacrifice when required that can lead to disasterous outcomes. Take WW2. It took millions of lives worth of sacrifices to stop Hitler. That was the price that needed to be paid to stop him. Without that sacrifice, its highly probable the world would be vastly different now. So while I understand hearing him say that seems somber and macabre, it doesnt make it any less valid. Sometimes the solution is indeed sacrifice. Sometimes, it is death and not life, that is the toll needed to be paid for peace, security, prosperity, and safety. And you see that especially, when it comes to Gotham. Every villain Batman has put away has gotten out. Not just your D level villains but actual psychopathic genocidal maniacs like the Joker, who has been responsible for countless deaths yet Batman still continues giving him chances. Yet had those villains been killed permanently, the problem would be resolved. Its not even like higher security helped either. They have all in one form or another, gotten out. Over and over. And batman knows this adn still stubbornly continues. Leading to again, more needless death of innocents, suffering, and tragedy.
Well that's just how Rob explains stories to be honest. After watching this channel for a couple of years you start to pick up on the fact that Rob sometimes holds his opinions to be the default for everyone else and a lot of the times applies them to the comic he's explaining, which isn't necessarily a bad thing
Oh boy. Here we go again. People, consequentialism/ utilitarianism is easily one of the worst forms of morality. Only really beaten out by “eye for an eye.” It requires a level of self delusion that makes a guy dressed like a bat trying to avenge his parents death look rational. Not only are you announcing to yourself and the rest of the world that you can predict the future and what will happen, you’re saying your entitled to do horrible things because you know better than anyone else what will happen. Does Batman think he knows better than others? Absolutely, but at least he’s dealing with the here and now and what he can actually know about a situation. We have at least two scenarios where killing the Joker resulted in a worse Gotham with a million more possibilities. He’s also return, get replaced, or, as in the situation with the three Jokers, they’d make another or just pick up the slack, making killing him pointless. Especially considering who they could replace that Joker with. “You can’t save everybody.” This is comics people. Batman has saved all of reality with the Justice League more than once. That is, quite seriously, saving everyone.
No kidding. I've been saying the same thing. It's so obvious that Rub is a kinda delusional pessimist after this one. I've been worried about Rob spreading such negative and unhealthy falsehoods for a while but after reading the comments I'm glad most people can see through it AND are willing to call him out and constructively explain why these things aren't true, especially in regards to comics.
@@Gray963 Just because Rob has a different opinion about Batman killing Joker doesn't make him pessimistic. Sure, its logical looking at the Batman mindset that he doesnt want to kill the Joker, because he doesnt kill humans and Joker used to be one, so there is always chance at redemption/bringing him back. But realistically, killing Joker would be the lesser evil. Nobody would blame Batman for doing that, because most people think its the right thing to do.
No kidding. I've been worried about Rob spreading such negative and unhealthy falsehoods for a while but after reading the comments I'm glad most people can see through it AND are willing to call him out and constructively explain why these things aren't true. Just wish he wasn't so close minded about it. Seems like explaining how he's wrong just makes him dig in deeper. :P
I LOVE seeing Batman happy. This is what Bruce has always needed. A friend. Not a sidekick, partner, or ally. But a friend. Disclaimer: I've always considered Gordon and Clark to be "work friends." Thomas Elliot is the only childhood friend I can think of right off the bat and he went evil. Most of the Bat-Family are like children, or family to him. Not to mention his numerous lovers.
I'm never going to absolve Harley from smashing skulls with a mallet for fun. They want to make her redeemed so badly so she can kinda be a good guy. I don't buy it without her wearing the Task Force X collar for a couple years to deter her murdering at least.
Okay, let's be entirely honest. Ghostmaker is a gatekeeping a-hole. "You're not doing it for the *art* of it, that is why you'll lose". Give me a break. I think he's a good character and acts as an interesting foil for Batman, but he's a gatekeeper, plain and simple. Also, from a psychological point, I just want to say, Batman's motivation *is* internal, not external. Extrinsic motivation is doing things for the promise of external gain. Monetary reward and such. Batman's parents are already dead; they can't be saved and they can't be killed again. So while Batman is motivated by their deaths, he has nothing to materially gain from being Batman. His motivation is intrinsic.
Exactly, Batman know that true change can only come from the inside. This notion that killing the Joker is going to solve everything is too simple. The factors that created the Joker is still there.You kill the Joker and another will take his spot. The cycle continues and nothing changes.
@@virongacha7211 sure you can burn down Gotham City but would that stop men from hating and killing each other. The hearts and minds of men is what has to change otherwise your just prolonging the inevitable cycle of revenge.
12:00 But it was more than an apology he got. One, she offered an opportunity to kill her with no resistance, and told Batman to stay out of it. That’s more vulnerability that just “Whoops my bad”. Second, she made him realise that the weakness that led her to do what she did is almost the exact same weakness that led him on the path he’s currently on.
I am tired of the writers trying to make her more sellable and less murdery. I cannot forget her past of smashing people's skulls in with mallets for fun. No, she shouldn't be able to walk around freely.
Rob, as a long time fan of your channel, I’m honestly worried for you. How could you believe Ghostmaker is altruistic? His philosophy doesn’t make sense. He wants to save people, people he doesn’t care about, because...? Batman cares about people, which is why he saves them. Ghostmaker does it for the glory of it. He looks down on the people he saves. He only cares about himself, which is the opposite of altruism. Also, your oversimplification of the worth of human life is disturbing. You think that the death of that one guy on the street is necessary “for the greater good”, but what if that was your life? Do you think of your own life so cheaply? Would you be willing to sacrifice yourself or those you love to catch a group of thugs? Batman thinks of the individual as well as the group. Thinking strictly about the group leads to a communist society that rife with corruption. Again, this is coming from a fan that cares about you and your channel, and it pains me to hear the same thing over and over again in each one of your Batman videos. Batman doesn’t care about vengeance, he forgave Joe Chill and tried to talk Clownhunter out of ruining his life by going down that path. Batman does what he does so there doesn’t have to be more kids with dead parents, a noble goal that is selfless rather than Ghostmaker’s which is selfish. I truly hope you can see the difference.
I love how you glossed over the part where Bruce rightfully calls ghostmaker out on projecting his insecurities onto Him and tells him straight up that he's broken and just mad that Bruce or all his issues isn't as broken as him.
Exactly 💯
I feel like you might be over simplifying the kid. He’s been on a rampage killing criminals and got saw style kidnapped when Batman and another dude were fighting over him. Him deciding to leave was likely because he understood the chaos that Harley got herself in because he got into it himself.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most "normal" people would have done the same as the kid there. It's one thing to kill a bunch of murderers in a riot, it's another to kill a person you're looking in the eye who's crying as they explain their regret and how they've changed.
...Especially as they submit their life to you. Most people aren't as mindless and base as Rob believes. Not by a long shot.
@@Gray963 This is why Rob will never win the Batman should kill debate. One, Rob believes that people cannot self govern themselves and that the people will not do the right thing off their own accord. As if most people want to just cause harm to one another for no good reason.
Two, Rob says if villians are given a chance of reforming or staying a villian that they will choose to stay a villian. Why, because that's what they are use to and its easier than to work hard for something. As if people can't change.
Their are plenty examples of people who lived a life of crime, payed for it and came out wanting to do something else. Some go off to become highly successful in life. Some reach back to teach others not to make the same mistakes. But in the end they changed.
All in all Rob argument is that people can't change. Somebody else needs to tell you how to live. Somebody else knows exactly the paradise you want to live. And if you make a mistake of becoming a criminal that you should die. Because killing one person can stop all crime in the world from happening ever again.
@@mr.dccomics9018 Seriously. Fully agreed. He doesn't provide any evidence or concrete statements. Just straw men and sweeping generalizations that don't match reality at all.
Some places in the world like Norway have a nearly 100% reform rate for criminals and objectively prove the philosophy valid.
People do good things for no reward MOST of the time. Look how many people give charity, how many humanitarian organizations there are, how many millions support philanthropic movements.
To counter his argument: look how few shopping carts are 'actually' in parking lots vs the thousands that go each day. Most people have been shitty for a good chunk of their lives and grew up to be better. Growing up and learning is a thing that exists. Humanity exists because of it.
He also seems to be ignorant of the fact that humanity self governed for thousands of years in many forms to great success. Back before the kind of "necessary evils" he argues for slaughtered everyone and formed barbaric empires like Rome.
The types of empires and tactics we don't need anymore because they fell, we've learned better, and we've evolved to the point we can prevent them.
He just gaslights his viewers like he's trying to indoctrinate them into this nihilistic pessimistic worldview that supports brutal authoritarianism and it's surreal. Probably to validate whatever chip he's got on his shoulder but I'm not here to psychoanalyze him.
I can't be sure how self aware he is but it sure seems he's smart enough to preach the message without calling it what it is.
I like the guy but he's clearly had some very messed up people/experiences drive him down this rabbit hole and he seems like he's gotten worse every time I check his videos.
I'm not saying we should cancel Rob or anything. I'm far more empathetic and forgiving then he is. But people seriously need to call it for what it is more.
@@Gray963 all true man, everything you said, I agree. At first I didn't mind that Rob wanted Batman to kill because he's not the first to say it. I heard plenty of people say that Batman should kill The Joker. That's not new to me, usually I hear and shrouge it off and pay it no attention.
My problem with Rob is that he keeps going on and on about it like he has a personal vendetta against Batman.
He doesn't put any other characters into that conversation on should somebody kill. Rob is a Marvel guy yet he doesn't mention Spiderman or The Xmen, Avengers, Guardians etc. No its only Batman who's the problem.
Idk, Rob, Joker stated himself that he's crazy, but at least he knows not to mess with the IRS
I'm mean there's being crazy and then there's just being stupid. No one's saying Joker is an idiot.
Lol I love that scene! I'm crazy enough to take on Batman, but the IRS no thank you!
Any one eles think young bruce looks like tom cruise
I kind of noticed Joker isn't crazy. He's fully aware of who he is, what he can do, and how to think ahead.
He just acts that way because he wants to.
Wasn't there something in TAS back in the 90's about taxes/IRS?
I like the idea of Batman having a peer not a protégé
I honestly can't believe you're telling us Ghostmaker's motivation is fully altruistic at the same time as you're showing us a panel where he categorically states that his motivation is purely and entirely about ego. He doesn't care about making the world a better place at all, he's only doing so because of "the ART of it". He only cares about himself and his own ego, he is the furthest thing from an altruist I can possibly imagine.
Still he is willing to kill the joker unlike Batman
@@jakejake8985 Yeah, making him exactly as evil as the Joker. He's a really irredeemable character. But that's sort of the point of the ending. Not only does Batman care about Clown Hunter, he cares about Ghost Maker too. Batman is a paragon, he does what's moral, that's what makes him impressive. Killing is easy, caring is hard.
Good point. Also wasn’t his POV knock on his head when Clown Hunter didn’t kill Harley?
Right on!
You guys are looking at this completely the wrong way!
Ghost-maker does what he does because he is capable of doing it and because he is a good enough person to do it.
The above is important when you look at law enforcement in the real world the motivation is usually money, some people dream of being a cop true but if you consider ghost-makers actions to be egocentric then the same can be said about kids who have dreams of becoming a cop, at the end of the day all things can be said to steel from desire or compulsion. Wanting to do something or doing it because you can’t stop, it’s like masturbating cause you want to verses doing it because of addiction but not wanting to.
If Ghost-maker is saving people because it’s his desire and he is capable I see no issue. You people fail to understand there are people in the real world who own small islands have billions of dollars in the bank account that could benefit society in a multitude of ways and if they did it no one would care if it was due to ego or not as long as the job is done correctly.
As such Ghost-maker can’t be said to be irredeemable from a moral point because all humans make selfish decisions, living your life the way you want with no compromise is egotistical in itself. However Ghost-maker lives to create a perfect society no matter the cost, and believing your capable of making a utopia while sacrificing nothing is childish (Batman).
In reality Ghost-maker has Batman’s tactics and technical ability while having more realistic morals on how to deal with crime, he does because of “the art of it” but then again everyone has there own desires.
This is the most important part at the end of the day Ghost-maker is helping society and his own desire is insignificant to the end result which is a uptopia and he realises and that’s why he will kill.
Batman on the other hand acknowledges his own desire of not wanting to kill anyone or sacrifice anything other then himself and those close to him to create a haven where everyone is reformed and there are no deaths and yet the Joker and other villains who are unrepentant kills exist, his desire effects the rest of society negatively.
It goes back to the question would you kill someone that is going to kill millions. It’s people like Batman allowing the Batman who laughs to live that causes the death of entire universes, all because some kid is still fighting a crime that ended.
If Ghost-maker was on the justice league regardless of his desires wouldn’t it make the multiverse a better place if he made the decision to kill those that mean the world, universe, multiverse harm? And yet Death Metal strikes.
No one:
Literally no one at all:
Rob: Your mommy and daddy got shot
Every Batman video these days 😂
But isn't the joker reliving the worst day of his life that was the whole thing by his origin wasn't it not?
maybe Batman can be motivated by not having other children go through the same trauma
@@goofuslankius but allowing the same criminals to be locked up to eventually get and kill again is happening. I mean how many parents has The Joker killed that wasn't fortunate to be wealthy? Literally goes against what he stands for in letting The Joker live.
Batman: At least if I can save The Joker then Gotham is a better.
Citizens of Gotham: 10,000 people are dead from a wide spread Joker Toxin.
@@HeruTheGodKing So Superman should kill Lex, and Spider-Man should kill Green Goblin?
I think ghost maker and Jason Todd are gonna be good friends 😂😂😂
nah jason is himself guided by vengeance he lack ghost makers zeal for justice.
I feel they'll cross. They're gonna have hate boners for each other
Jason is essentially a undisciplined version of Bruce...i think Ghost Maker will either despise Jason, or be a mentor to him.
@@rob3791 that’d be interesting. I’d love to see how they’re dialogue bounces off of each other.
Jason is different now
I dig GhostMaker he's the Punisher's tact, with Batman's tactics.
Damian:who is this father
Ghostmaker: call me uncle
Uncle Ghosty. Nice.
Rob is seriously projecting onto Ghost-Maker. It's like he's seeing an entirely different character.
I feel like Rob misses the underlying or sometimes greater point of most Batman comics because he has such strong bias against Batman's way of not killing
I like watching Robs videos and I've also noticed he throws in several time "that's just how the world is" arguments to justify the utilitarian means to an end philosophy. Batman is better than that and the writers know it.
Ghost Maker is not altruistic. His attitude towards people is revealed in the words, "we were the only ones smart enough to gather the skills [to fix the world]". It takes a huge ego to think that you're the one to fix the world and a deep-seated selfishness to believe that your way is the only way. He states that he isn't doing all this for glory, but he actually is. It's self glorification of his values, his vision for the world and a complete disregard for everyone to prove himself right. You can't be wanting to make the world a better place for everyone out of love for humanity, when you consider everyone inferior to you. In many ways, he demonstrates the same personality of the MCU Thanos. Was Thanos altruistic?
This is why Rob will never win the Batman should kill case. One he believes that people cannot self govern themselves and two, he believes people will not do the right thing off their own accord.
As if everybody is so messed up that we are incapable of doing the right thing.
Next, Rob says that if villians had to choose between reforming or being a villian that they would choose to stay a villian. Why, because thats what they are use two and its easier to be a criminal vs working hard for something.
Which is complete BS.
There are plenty of people who live a life of crime and turned their life around to become highly successful.
@@mr.dccomics9018 As a society, especially in the USA, the rights of the individual are becoming so important that Rob is being honest when he says that in his experience people will always choose the easiest path to personal gain. But that statement is influenced by the people he associates with. However, this story really illustrates how society has changed so much that what many define as a "hero" is fundamentally different to 80 years ago when Batman was first created.
He is a character that existed before global terrorism, before the USA had 40k fatal shootings each year, before the UK had violent extremists knifing random people in the streets and France didn't have teachers being decapitated by parents. In less than 100 years the world has become a more brutal, self-centered and heartless place. So its no wonder that people, who allow their thinking to be shaped by the current atmosphere of our society, to see heroism in characters who are heartless but are directing that callousness towards people who are even worse.
Ghost Maker is essentially what Batman would be if he was created in the 21st century and that's what makes this story so interesting because its shining a light on how dark the world has become when there is little difference between a hero and a villian.
@@KryyssTV its exactly why so many people have a hard time accepting Superman. Because he's a reflection of how far so many people have fallen, morally wise.
People say he's too good and too powerful and that a character like that doesn't exist in the real world. You have writer's who are constantly trying to change him so he can be more " modern and relatable". As if being a blood thirsty vigilante is normal.
At the end of it all I believe most people have forgotten what it truly means to be heroic or what it should really look like.
@@mr.dccomics9018 Like Rob said, doing the right thing is hard and most people just don't try. But that means not exercising self-control which in itself is a skill meaning the less you control yourself the harder it becomes to be disciplined. Society has now reached the point where self-control is a bad thing, this is shown by a culture that says - be yourself. So when someone comes along who does exercise self-control like Kal-El, Bruce Wayne or Steve Rogers they're seen as unrealistic because the personalities of these characters is very rare in modern times.
@@KryyssTV exactly, I comes down to people who want characters that represent them. Its the battle of discipline people vs undisciplined people.
Batman and Superman represent people who go to the gym everyday and practice discipline. They are the ones who become Mr. Olympia.
The people who are complaining are the ones who are undisciplined and want Batman and Superman to have a cheat meal because they say going to the gym to train is too hard.
So they want Batman and Superman to slack off and become relatable so they can feel good about being a under achiever.
Except that happens in the real world all the time, Rob. People forgive when they are raised to do so. Maybe you only know(through media) bad people, but TV isn't real. The reporters put their masks on right before going on camera so they can be seen taking it off, as if they had it on the whole time. That isn't reality.
Most families want justice, not revenge. They absolutely forgive for sincere apologies. It happens all the time. Apologies are the rarity.
Fiction has some form of realisms. But from where I stand optimists should be more appreciated.
Agreed, I have watched all of Rob's Batman vids since New 52 and he really seems to believe that characters and situations in comic books are a reflection of reality. They are not. They are fictional stories, with fictional characters. It is a horrible idea to build a worldview off of them, but that seems to be what he has done.
@@wavestation999 Next thing he might do is to Condemn Spider-man or Daredevil for not killing.
@@UnrealNeoBat right, even tho we all know the real reason the villains aren't killed off: so they can keep writing stories
I finally realize why Rob so passionately hates Batman. It's because Batman is an optimist who revolves around proving pessimism wrong, and Rob is a pessimist.
Rob would make a great Batman villain.
People who say, "The needs the many outweigh the needs of the few", only believe that; until they're one of the few.
Rob has 0 Faith in Humanity. This video proves this.
Why does that matter? If you're triggered that easily, best turn off the internet now, child.
@@Thuazabi how is he triggered?
Care to counter his argument?
@@IsThatNas just leave him be, from what I see he spends his time in this comment section being toxic to everyone he disagrees with while calling cookie cutter insults like: childish, naive, pathetic etc.
Rob know’s the difference between an unrealistic view of how to be a good hero, and what to do when you have a mass murderer who’s never gonna stop killing.
Rob: Any rational person could justify Batman committing murder. *Refuses to engage or listen to different opinions.*
I finally realize why Rob so passionately hates Batman. It's because Batman is an optimist who revolves around proving pessimism wrong, and Rob is a pessimist.
Rob would make a great Batman villain.
@@Gray963 I say the same about people who hate superman, lol.
yeah Rob also has a problem with Cap and a lot of his rants devolve into these " might makes right" justifications.
3 minutes of plot, 17 minutes of robs thoughts, needed this today
I finally realize why Rob so passionately hates Batman. It's because Batman is an optimist who revolves around proving pessimism wrong, and Rob is a pessimist.
Rob would make a great Batman villain.
Batman typically doesn't prove pessimism wrong, Rob also likely doesn't hate Batman, seems obvious he just sees that Batman is written for what he is, a psychopath with unrealistic standards.
I always thought that Batman started his war on crime to never let what happened to him and his parents happen to anyone ever again. Which you could view as an act of revenge but I would argue is actually an act of protection and compassion because he has never killed anyone including Joe Chill. The very man that killed his parents, but instead he has tried to show them a better way and protected those who would have been hurt and comforted those who were. That’s why Clownhunter is so interesting because he is out for revenge of what happened to his parents and has chosen to kill anyone involved and as for him not killing Harley Quinn I think that’s totally in the realm of believability because these characters are supposed to be at least part human and humans make mistakes and humans can change if they choose to. Then the argument that Batman should kill the Joker, No he should not. Batman should not kill the Joker because it goes against everything Batman stands for and if he does then the Joker ultimately wins. And killing people even people like the Joker is wrong no matter what he’s done. Will killing him save other people’s lives, yes. Is he to far gone and past the point of redemption, no. Now will Batman ever be able to guide the Joker onto the path of redemption, we don’t know. But whether he does or he doesn’t the Joker will pay for his actions one way or another. And so will everyone else including Clownhunter, Ghost Maker, Harley Quinn, and even Batman.
I think i saw a panel of the golden age batman where it shows the Waynes had another son before Bruce who was brain damaged and institutionalized. Might be the Joker is his bro and that is the reason he can't kill him.
At this point these videos are more about rob explaining why Batman is wrong then explaining the story
exactly.
Then go watch another channel. The rest of us are here for how he tells the stories, not your garbage personal opinion.
FOR AARON WILDER: ROB JEFFERSON HEAR OUR CRY, CHARACTER EXPLAINED/BEYOND OMEGA LEVEL: RESURRECTION MAN!
We do this for Aaron Wilder
@@EtotheFnD who?
@@calvinheslop2585 oh wow....see what we created...search Rob's channel for Beyond Omega Level Resurrection Man....and bask in all of the glory of our victory
Always appreciate your quality content! Keep up the good work Rob.
And if Bruce were to fix Gotham, then there'd be no stories to write.
Or just be rebooted as often as the Ninja Turtles.
It drives me nuts that people use the mind numbing argument: "if Batman was right/good then Gotham would be fixed". Like... bro... do you get the concept of comics? Of a 'series'? Stop being in denial! Stop desperately trying to prove a character wrong just because your a messed up pessimist or whatever!
I mean there are even stories where he DOES save Gotham, including canonical ones that take place in the future. People who hate on characters like Batman for these reasons are so transparent it hurts. I'd feel bad for them but seriously, suck it up! Stop taking your issues out on positive stuff meant to inspire people! It's selfish and absurd.
@@Gray963 these are the points of the american system and in the end, Donald Trump being on trial is pointless, as pointless has Batman's fight against crime in Gotham...other than a fuel for "today's" media.
I really don't think Joker should be used as proof that Batman needs to start killing his criminals. Joker is such a unique and extreme example of malevolence that I don't think he can be applied to any sort of universal crime-fighting philosophy. He is an exception to all rules because he thrives in the absence of rules, A.K.A. chaos.
He did specifically point out Joker *is* the exception. I think EVERYONE agrees Joker's the exception.
Your right but people like Ras, bane, maybe riddler, and the owls should die
@@virongacha7211 Why should Ra's die exactly?
@@TheIronSnowMan8D he tried to murder everyone in Gotham multiple times
Welcome, DC Vegeta!
Vegeta crying to Frieza: You killed all my people, I hate you.
Also Vegeta: *snaps fingers and annihilates an entire planet which he just liberated in passing for literally no reason*
Hey Rob, can you explain:
1) RESURRECTION MAN
2)Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter)
3)The Mother of Existence
4)Kang the Conqueror
5)Mogo the Living Planet
6)Crimson Dynamo (Valetin Shatalov)
7)Bat-Mite
8)Blue Beetle(Jaime Reyes)
9)Solomon Grundy
10)Etrigan
11)Hellboy
12)The Young Avengers
13)Judge Death
14)The Tick
15)The Mask
16)Hawkman & Hawkgirl
17)the Mandarin
18)Steel
19)The Eradicator
20)Cyborg Superman
21)Reptil
22)the Doom Patrol
23)The Key(DC)
24)Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)
25)Lobster Johnson
26)Trigon
27)Mata Nui
What If scenarios:
Darkseid gets a Cosmic Cube
Darkseid invades Mega City One
Lobo vs. Homelander & The Seven
Ultra Man fights Homelander and The Seven
Judge Death gets a Astral Regulator
Judge Death meets Gorr the God Butcher
Judge Dredd meets Billy Butcher & The Boys
Unicron battles Shuma-Gorath
Mangog battles Doomsday
All Might becomes Captain Universe
Manchester Black & The Elite fight Homelander & The Seven
Judge Death gets Black, Red, Orange & Yellow Lantern Rings
Hellboy & the BPRD meet Judge Dredd
Beyond Omega Level:
Odin’s Doom(Ultimate Alliance Final Boss Dr Doom)
Weird exposition on the pragmatism of when we should wack someone based on comic story telling.
Rob scares me with this insanity sometimes. It's not only inappropriate and sucks the fun out of everything but can lean into some genuinely disturbing nihilistic pessimism.
Like, I get it Rob. You got a chip on your shoulder, but stop venting your biases and let us enjoy the vids.
@@Gray963 It only comes off as biased because you yourself have biases to the contrary, there's nothing nihilistic with being a collectivist.
Keep the good content up! Thanks for always cheering me up :)
Awwwwww, I like this! Bruce gets his friend back!
That ending was great. It’s been years since we got a new member to the bat family & someone that is extremely capable. Can’t wait to read ghostmaker stories
The best thing about him is that he's not Bruce's soldier, he's Bruce's equal friend, this fact can provide so much new and fun chemistry in the family.
I find it creepy how I can mostly, agree with Ghostmaker’s view. Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with all his actions but many of his opinions make a lot of sense.
Just give a death penalty to the horrible serial killers, simple. Then Ghostmaker would he satisfied lol
Known as a sociopath.
@@superdewott3209 agreed
I'm excited for Ghost Maker although it was a lackluster ending, I like that Ghost Maker is part of the Bat Family
She's 100% responsible for her actions. It's a really really weak temporary insanity argument.
She's arguing that she knew but considered the consequences less terrible than the reward of Joker caring for her to be worth those lives. Her feelings were worth their lives
She’s making the argument that she was psychotic,in fact she’s not even making an argument she’s just telling her story. She said if you want to kill me,I understand
@@akealiihall7251 yeah, she said she was sorry and she’s been trying to make up for it all this time. It’s not her fault she’s crazy, The Joker is very manipulative.
@@jamestheawsome100 But she is still responsible for her actions you cant just say oh he manipulated me in assisting him on killing thousandths call me ignorant but I will never truly believe Harley is a good guy
Ya, Harley Quinn is not a good person and I don’t think DC can make her into a good guy bc her history is just too horrific.
It’s like turning the Zodiac Killer into a superhero.
They should just lean into her sadistic side
I think you're grossly misinterpreting Ghostmaker, Rob. His motivation isn't "to make the world a better place". He keeps going on about the ART of it. How HE'S the only one smart and skilled enough to fix the world. It's completely an ego thing.
Ghostmaker is the villain.
The fact that a character want to make a Utopia for the world is ego centric too. I'm like who do you think you are to believe you know exactly what the world should want. As if everybody wants the same thing.
Its complete Bs.
And what exactly is wrong with saving the world even if your motivation is ego? If not that then what's the motivation, "Objective good"? That's not objectively definable so eventually Ghostmaker would run out of motivation where as ego can be near limitless. Sure it could be a weakness but just because ego(the means) is considered bad by some doesn't mean the ends(Not a utopia, but certainly a better one than Batmans future lmao) is unjustifiable.
@@mr.dccomics9018 Ghostmaker clearly doesn't care what the world wants, because the world is the reason it's gotten to the point it did. He has the almost the same motivation as Ra's Al Ghul to some extent, and that mindset of correction isn't neccesarily wrong it's just seen as inferior to those living in the "Free world".
The ending was a let down. All this hype and build up and then they are like "nah lets go back to being buddies."
Lol, yeah, agreed.
Extremely anticlimactic.
Worse than the Catwoman thing.
@T.P.A All we're saying is that the resolution seems cheap and too soon.
For everybody here it’s for story and world building purposes. Now we can see Ghost Maker kick everybody’s ass and as a permanent character.
In regards to the grocery cart probablem: I usually put the cart away, not because I care about other people or see it as the right thing to do, but because it ultimately makes things easier in the picture. It annoys me when other people leave their carts, so I don't want to contribute to a world where everybody leaves their carts lying around. That world would be harder on me.
I think the least effort principle applies, but only when individual perspective is considered.
I LOVE WHAT THEIR DOING WITH HARELY
@Gabriel Vinícius do Nascimento It's way more nuanced than that. She's someone who's gone through a long hard character arc of realizing her flaws. She was manipulated and realized that, and strives to do better. She *was* a victim and she realizes even with that as a fact, it was still her own choice. She takes responsibility for her mistakes. She doesn't play victim, even if she was one, and is willing to deal with the cards she was dealt because of her own weakness and take responsibility.
There's a nuance here between taking responsibility for one's weakness that lead to becoming a victim of abuse and manipulation, and being a victim. Were she just to tell him "Yeah well the Joker manipulated me, I was a victim, so sorry!" then yes, it was be "Being victimized".
But here, she's explaining why she did what she did, she shows regret, she acknowledges why she screwed up, she also acknowledges that even if she forgot she did it, she did make a mistake. And she was willing to, despite the option to run and absolve herself of the responsibility, stay and take that responsibility. Harley here isn't being Victimized, but rather coming face to face with the damage she caused, and willing to at least absolve one person's pain and suffering. This is more nuanced than 'being victimized'.
What you were talking about at around the 16:00 mark:
It does make me wonder how the joker will react if he knew his wife and son were alive in Alaska. Probably just stalk and terrorize them, sure. But I wonder what the thought process would be at first.
Their “deaths” WERE the final straw in him become the joker.
Comics explained is cannon at this point
I love that in the end they decide to work together. They are both exceptional charactors
So how slow is this ClownKiller kid that Batman was able to break free, throw a Batarang to Harley, and the Harley cut herself free and stop him before he killed her?
I've spent the whole video trying to figure that one out, myself. It's not like it was in a moment of distraction, Clown Killer was already in mid swing.
@@elite4blitz yea, it's kinda weird to me how they've turned Harley into some sort of superhuman master combatants lol
@@indeedgaminghere401 I wouldn't call her a master combatent more like she has a lot of experience
@@axelaliens153 You must not of seen when she was fast enough to take WonderWoman's Lasso of Truth off her flip over both her and Batman and then wrap it around Batman's neck smh
@@indeedgaminghere401 oh yeah
Gotta say I think you're dangerously misinterpreting/projecting your own philosophies onto this story. You say a bunch of truisms and then generalize about human nature but then don't really look at the point Tynion is trying to make.
I've been saying the same thing. It's so obvious that Rub is a kinda delusional pessimist after this one. Rob is seriously projecting onto Ghost-Maker. It's like he's seeing an entirely different character and another set of dialogue.
Rob: if this would've been in the real world... Harley would've died.
Me: on everything
Thats bs. As if taking a life is easy for a 15 year old kid.
@@mr.dccomics9018 apparently you see life through rose colored lenses. Below are three examples of what teenagers are capable of doing to someone who gave them life or shares their blood.
I agree, taking a life shouldn't be easy for anyone, let alone a fifteen year old nor should making an ass of yourself trolling someone's punchline.
www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-virginia-killed-his-mom-6-year-old-brother-police-n1137391
www.cnn.com/2020/01/24/us/alabama-teenager-stab-mother-brothers/index.html
meaww.com/gregory-ramos-florida-teen-pleads-guilty-kills-mother-fight-poor-grades-bury-body-church
@@tlee34792 He said it wasn’t easy. Not that it wasn’t done. Pretty sure the fact that you have three there and the world isn’t all “Children of the Corn” all over the place proved his point.
@@danielc.b.4537 That's because the world has societal restrictions. That's the only reason it isn't a more widespread thing.
@@danielc.b.4537 there were many US teen murderers in 2020. Anyone arguing that I chosed 3 for an effect is an idiot disputing a mute point.
To commit a heinous act of murder for a teenager isn't as hard as you wish, to be honest it doesn't even take one bad day, only teen angst, gall, and conviction.
Ghostmaker is a super interesting character, I'd love to see DC give him an ongoing solo.
Lol, like there was ever supposed to be a "reward" for doing the right thing.
There isn't but if you think about it the "reward" is the fact you know you did the right thing. That cart you didn't put back might hit a car.
You do the right thing because its the right thing to do so I'd say no
Batman getting ghostmaker to join the bat family, I feel, is a low key way of the writers telling us that Batman’s philosophy won. If Batman were to listen to ghostmaker than Batman should have killed ghostmaker. However Batman believes that people can be saved no matter what. I would predict that ghostmaker being around the bat family, ghostmaker views will slowly start to change
"Not a tank then?"
Ghost maker watched Arkham knight ? 😂
Nah he played the whole arkham trilogy lmfao
He took some inspiration from my suit in that
Ah, another video where Rob gives a glimpse into his assumption that everyone is ultimately only driven by primal selfish interest, no matter what it means for other people. Surprised we didn't get another, "if my kid is hungry and the neighbor's kid is hungry and there's only one sandwich, I'd make sure even my kid eats even if I have to kill the other kid cuz ah well them's the breaks and everyone else definitely thinks the same way, right?"
Wtf, he actually said that? In this scenario, just split the sandwich in half ffs.
2021 will be a terrible year for Gotham’s criminal element. Sheesh
Ghostmaker is a character that can add some much needed objectivity to Bruce's life. I really find the character interesting as well and I hope we see a lot more of him in the near future. That costume is also pretty badass.
It's not Batman's job to kill the Joker. It's Gotham's job.
Yet they won’t do it.
Hard to do when Gotham is one of the most corrupt cities in DC. Villains go in and out of prison, high tech facilites, and even prisons designed to hold superpowered beings, like they were just walking through air.
I agree that corruption is the underlying problem. But we all know that if there was any sense "corruption" still wouldn't save the Joker. Everyone that knows, knows the Joker doesn't play by even the corrupt rules. Cobblepot, Sent, and Falkonies would be paying judges to speed this clown's death sentence to public firing squad in the court room.
@@m.mulder8864 I agree. Which is where the frustration with batman and Gotham comes from. Realistically, society would not tolerate these villains being alive. So for batman to tolerate them even at the cost of a severe loss of life, for Gotham to tolerate them, etc. Its..really stupid.
@@elra1894 realistically people can't break out of prison. realistically once caught, the joker would die as an old insane man in prison.
For the record I put the cart away properly.
I absolutely love your side of the argument and attention to detail. I don’t ultimately agree with you on your perspective on Batman, but I respect the hell out of how you see things. Keep up the good work!
Rob: it seems like Ghostmaker has an ego problem.
I may have discovered the secret to enjoying your Batman content, Rob. I just watch the videos on mute.
Savage
That's just a tiny bit to harsh....but at this point he's starting to deserve it
@@metrostatistics9807 He's completely ignored criticism of how he reviews Batman stories for years. I'd say it's been a long time coming. Besides, I still like his content overall. He's just 100% wrong about Batman.
@@khodexus4963 now now, he's 98% wrong, Batman does have his problems, Rob just doesn't give viable solutions to those problems
@@metrostatistics9807 That's fair.
Not everyone would be screaming for blood and lash out. Some ppl don't have it in them to be violent no matter how far you push them to the edge or over it
Haven't watched the video yet. Betting my left nut that rob complains about batman and will mentioned the "mommy and daddy got shot" line again.
Yup, never fails.
I think arguing that most people will choose the laziest way out and do the wrong thing is just as pessimistic as the alternative is optimistic. It's not one way or the other. Batman's stance is better because there is a lower opportunity cost for leaving every villain alive. On the other hand, I agree villains like the Joker need a permanent solution. The problem is, there are very few if any, villains like the Joker.
Beyond Omega Level: Enerjak(Archie Sonic)
Beyond Omega Level: Abeloth(Star Wars)
Beyond Omega Level: Resurrection Man
I kind of like Ghost-Makers idea for he and Bruce to travel the world together, stopping crime wherever it is. Establishing a kind of mini League of Shadows thing going on. This would make for an interesting elseworlds story.
I loved this video! Every second of it!
I'm with you on this Rob, Ghost Maker's a badass, this story was a great read. Imagine the interaction between him and Jason Todd😁
@Shawn Kuhn 🤣🤣Hell yeah
Im watching the last video first because im insane.
I'll give one thousand chuckie cheese tickets to whoever makes a compilation of rob saying "because ya mommy and ya daddy got shot"
Rob: Any rational person woulda stabbed her to death
Me: uhhhhh whut
17:13 lol that reminds me of someone else who sheathes their sword like that
I'm on the other side, I don't believe that most people would kill given the chance. I say they would have to be in a life threatening situation for them to go for the kill. I don't believe the average Joe would kill a person standing in front of them apologizing and begging to be killed.IMO
Agreed, I think the average person would not immediately try to murder someone they hate
Love the videos! Long time watcher first time commenter Always wondered if their was another person(s) that make the videos with you? I ask because of your opening “if you like the videos WE are putting up..”
"The criminals, never really get fixed"
Wasn't Harley Quinn in the last issue?
She's at least trying
Yeah, that’s what I said. At least Harley recognized that what she did was wrong and is trying to improve.
honestly this is one of the dopest batman stories ive heard in a while
If Ghosthunter logic is correct. Frank Castle should have made the Marvel universe a Utopia.
most heroes in marvel are not like Frank and keep him from getting out of hand
Loving the introduction of new and intriguing characters and storylines
And yeah let’s begin I love that part thanks 🙏 bro keep it coming I really no we really appreciate it
Pretty good story, Clown Hunter not killing Harley Quinn is a bit unrealistic, but not too far fetched. He is still a kid who doesn’t seem like he wants to commit heinous crimes in the same way the Joker or other members of Batman’s rogue gallery. His motivation is vengeance, similar to Batman. I do think that Ghost Maker is a very good addition and am looking forward to seeing what happens
All I got from this issue was the reinforcement that Harley Quinn has suffered zero consequences for her actions and deserves none of the clemency she's been given.
10/10.
She lost her kid (she’s not dead)
You spelled America wrong
ok. the dynamic between Batman and Ghostmaker is pretty adorable...
"Any normal person would have stabbed them to death."
...Would they, though? Even in a spur of the moment situation, not everyone reacts the same way. You'll get people who'll absolutely lash out, but you'll also get people who will think more rationally and want justice in a different way. If anything I feel the way you've been looking at this storyline has been kinda telling about your view on society. Basically, if bad person keeps being bad, kill them; If person wronged by bad person is given a chance to do bad things to said person, they 100% will. It's kinda off-putting.
Ha I was about to quote the same line. It's pretty hard to kill someone. Look at the studies they did about how few soldiers in WWI actually fired their weapons.
Yeah he really showed his hand a bit on this one. Very emotionally jaded outlook on death and society as a whole.
To be honest, I agree with what he says. The idea that there's a perfect solution that can lead to peace without some sacrifice is a flawed one. Sometimes saving someone is not the right answer. And if you put yourself in a position of authority and responsibility but are not ready or willing to sacrifice when required that can lead to disasterous outcomes. Take WW2. It took millions of lives worth of sacrifices to stop Hitler. That was the price that needed to be paid to stop him. Without that sacrifice, its highly probable the world would be vastly different now. So while I understand hearing him say that seems somber and macabre, it doesnt make it any less valid. Sometimes the solution is indeed sacrifice. Sometimes, it is death and not life, that is the toll needed to be paid for peace, security, prosperity, and safety. And you see that especially, when it comes to Gotham. Every villain Batman has put away has gotten out. Not just your D level villains but actual psychopathic genocidal maniacs like the Joker, who has been responsible for countless deaths yet Batman still continues giving him chances. Yet had those villains been killed permanently, the problem would be resolved. Its not even like higher security helped either. They have all in one form or another, gotten out. Over and over. And batman knows this adn still stubbornly continues. Leading to again, more needless death of innocents, suffering, and tragedy.
Well that's just how Rob explains stories to be honest. After watching this channel for a couple of years you start to pick up on the fact that Rob sometimes holds his opinions to be the default for everyone else and a lot of the times applies them to the comic he's explaining, which isn't necessarily a bad thing
I think Rob is just being edgey
Batman and Robin vs. Ghostmaker and Red Hood. The dynamic duo vs the deadly duo. MAKE IT HAPPEN, DC!
Beyond Omega Level: Resurrection Man. Shout out Aaron wilder.
We do this for Aaron Wilder
ghostmaker as a new member of the bat family holy molly this is awesome
Beyond omega level. Resurrection man
I love how this comment section is either: Gostmaker is awesome, or Rob WTF
Yes!!!!! I loved these and am so happy for the ending
"Some people should die...that's unconscious knowledge..." Jane's Addiction.
Oh boy. Here we go again. People, consequentialism/ utilitarianism is easily one of the worst forms of morality. Only really beaten out by “eye for an eye.” It requires a level of self delusion that makes a guy dressed like a bat trying to avenge his parents death look rational. Not only are you announcing to yourself and the rest of the world that you can predict the future and what will happen, you’re saying your entitled to do horrible things because you know better than anyone else what will happen. Does Batman think he knows better than others? Absolutely, but at least he’s dealing with the here and now and what he can actually know about a situation.
We have at least two scenarios where killing the Joker resulted in a worse Gotham with a million more possibilities. He’s also return, get replaced, or, as in the situation with the three Jokers, they’d make another or just pick up the slack, making killing him pointless. Especially considering who they could replace that Joker with.
“You can’t save everybody.” This is comics people. Batman has saved all of reality with the Justice League more than once. That is, quite seriously, saving everyone.
No kidding. I've been saying the same thing. It's so obvious that Rub is a kinda delusional pessimist after this one.
I've been worried about Rob spreading such negative and unhealthy falsehoods for a while but after reading the comments I'm glad most people can see through it AND are willing to call him out and constructively explain why these things aren't true, especially in regards to comics.
@@Gray963 Just because Rob has a different opinion about Batman killing Joker doesn't make him pessimistic. Sure, its logical looking at the Batman mindset that he doesnt want to kill the Joker, because he doesnt kill humans and Joker used to be one, so there is always chance at redemption/bringing him back. But realistically, killing Joker would be the lesser evil. Nobody would blame Batman for doing that, because most people think its the right thing to do.
I love that ghost maker is officially a member of the bat family now
Rob is clearly a pessimist of the highest order.
No kidding. I've been worried about Rob spreading such negative and unhealthy falsehoods for a while but after reading the comments I'm glad most people can see through it AND are willing to call him out and constructively explain why these things aren't true. Just wish he wasn't so close minded about it. Seems like explaining how he's wrong just makes him dig in deeper. :P
I LOVE seeing Batman happy. This is what Bruce has always needed. A friend. Not a sidekick, partner, or ally. But a friend.
Disclaimer: I've always considered Gordon and Clark to be "work friends." Thomas Elliot is the only childhood friend I can think of right off the bat and he went evil. Most of the Bat-Family are like children, or family to him. Not to mention his numerous lovers.
So Harley Quinn basically denies all personal responsibility and Batman defends her.
I'm never going to absolve Harley from smashing skulls with a mallet for fun. They want to make her redeemed so badly so she can kinda be a good guy. I don't buy it without her wearing the Task Force X collar for a couple years to deter her murdering at least.
Ghost maker and Batman as a team will be the new dynamic duo
Okay, let's be entirely honest. Ghostmaker is a gatekeeping a-hole. "You're not doing it for the *art* of it, that is why you'll lose". Give me a break. I think he's a good character and acts as an interesting foil for Batman, but he's a gatekeeper, plain and simple.
Also, from a psychological point, I just want to say, Batman's motivation *is* internal, not external. Extrinsic motivation is doing things for the promise of external gain. Monetary reward and such. Batman's parents are already dead; they can't be saved and they can't be killed again. So while Batman is motivated by their deaths, he has nothing to materially gain from being Batman. His motivation is intrinsic.
Exactly, Batman know that true change can only come from the inside. This notion that killing the Joker is going to solve everything is too simple. The factors that created the Joker is still there.You kill the Joker and another will take his spot. The cycle continues and nothing changes.
@@mr.dccomics9018 I think it's best to do what ghost Maker's plan originally was to burn Gotham to the ground. then I would kill the joker
@@virongacha7211 sure you can burn down Gotham City but would that stop men from hating and killing each other. The hearts and minds of men is what has to change otherwise your just prolonging the inevitable cycle of revenge.
@@mr.dccomics9018 ok you got me there
12:00 But it was more than an apology he got.
One, she offered an opportunity to kill her with no resistance, and told Batman to stay out of it. That’s more vulnerability that just “Whoops my bad”.
Second, she made him realise that the weakness that led her to do what she did is almost the exact same weakness that led him on the path he’s currently on.
I miss the old Harley Quinn who is a Psycho Killer. She did created Game Boy bomb for children in the hospital & blow them up!
I am tired of the writers trying to make her more sellable and less murdery. I cannot forget her past of smashing people's skulls in with mallets for fun. No, she shouldn't be able to walk around freely.
“He eats crazy, he sleeps 🛌 crazy” 😂😂😂
Rob, as a long time fan of your channel, I’m honestly worried for you. How could you believe Ghostmaker is altruistic? His philosophy doesn’t make sense. He wants to save people, people he doesn’t care about, because...? Batman cares about people, which is why he saves them. Ghostmaker does it for the glory of it. He looks down on the people he saves. He only cares about himself, which is the opposite of altruism.
Also, your oversimplification of the worth of human life is disturbing. You think that the death of that one guy on the street is necessary “for the greater good”, but what if that was your life? Do you think of your own life so cheaply? Would you be willing to sacrifice yourself or those you love to catch a group of thugs? Batman thinks of the individual as well as the group. Thinking strictly about the group leads to a communist society that rife with corruption.
Again, this is coming from a fan that cares about you and your channel, and it pains me to hear the same thing over and over again in each one of your Batman videos. Batman doesn’t care about vengeance, he forgave Joe Chill and tried to talk Clownhunter out of ruining his life by going down that path. Batman does what he does so there doesn’t have to be more kids with dead parents, a noble goal that is selfless rather than Ghostmaker’s which is selfish. I truly hope you can see the difference.
I like how at the end they were like "aight, tag you're it"
Beyond Omega Level: Resurrection Man
You'll get it eventually yeti
King
@@kennethcusick9074 I do this for Aaron Wilder
@@kingyeti6336 we do this for Aaron Wilder
Never thought I'd feel so good about myself for putting shopping carts up 😂
Character Explained/Beyond Omega Level: Resurrection Man
36 sleepless hrs, yet I'm here to support Resurrection Man...........✊🏾
@@BajanCypher thank you :)
@@aaronwilder2775, I have been slacking with support. Keep it up and Merry Christmas brother.
@@viviorko and to you too
The comments section for a Resurrection Man video will be AWESOME
hell yeah !! ghostmaker is now my favourit character on the bat family roster