That’s a really nice setup! I’m impressed with the microscope and monitor you have mounted. By the way, I learned a lot of what I know about hand turning from Archie Perkins’ book and from Dean DK’s TH-cam channel. Here are some tips I learned as a beginner lathe user over the past year- Turn under 1000 rpm, the slower the better. You should be able to just barely visually see the steel turning. 600ish is good. If it’s too fast, the graver will sort of skip over the surface and have a burnishing effect. Lower the overall setup. I find I have better leverage with it chest height and that also allows me to rest my elbow on the bench for stability. Keep the tool rest parallel to the work, and as close as possible. Perhaps a millimeter gap when viewed from above. But that will vary. Too large a gap may cause the graver to get pulled under the work, which tends to happen more with the tiny stuff. Your graver should be sharpened up so the diamond is completely flat. You can turn the work either diamond up or diamond down, as a matter of preference. The headstock/tailstock alignment test can be done with a razor blade being held between two dead centers. If the blade is straight up and down/front and back, then it’s aligned. I wouldn’t depend on a collet hole for the test. Excited to see the progression with the new tool. :)
Thanks Chris! I'll try all of these tips! I remember the razor blade test from your lathe video but I knew mine was too far off to even try that. Looking forward to seeing a video about your new rounding up tool!
First time I have been on your channel, but 35 years using Micro, Mini & Large [3 Ton weight !!!] Lathes. I would say, put away ALL your watch stems, get a piece of Brass 3 mm stock, and PRACTICE on that! Brass is the easiest material to learn on. What to cut FIRST? Well, you Need to check your tail stock's allignment, so make a 30° to 45° taper, bring it to a POINT. 1. THAT, as all machinist will tell you, is 100% aligned to the Axis of your Lathe. Any Lathe! 2. Align tailstock Center to THAT POINT! If it is not on center with the point of that brass, then you know your out of alignment, THERE is No BETTER method than that. 2a. Only then can you say if it is off: up, Higher than the Brass Point, down Lower than the Lathes axis. towards the rear of towards the front. 3. ALL REFERENCES is to the AXIS of the LATHE! 3a. THAT BRASS, is or should be YOUR ONLY REFERENCE! 3b. It was mounted in your collet, and EVEN if the collet is not true to the AXIS [other collet systems can have that problem, Watch Makers Lathes are fairly CORRECT to the Lathe AXIS.] However, back to off axis collet: once yor metal is tight in ANY COLLET, and you make your cuts, That WILL be IN Alignment of the AXIS ! ! ! THAT done, re-alignment is done either with Shim Stock, on the Tail Stock mounting points [plural]. 1. off of the "D" bed, one tightens that, above that, as you noted, is at least ONE more adjustment point, that being the barrel lock to lock the [sliding] portion firm to the body of the Tail Stock 2. Although I am NOT familiar with YOUR Lathe, MOST Lathes also have some means to CREATE TAAPERED TURNINGS. 2a. The Tapered turning adjustment Will or SHOULD be between that locking lever at the D Bed, and how the tail barrel is locked! 2b. never use anything to FORCE a tailstock into alignment, unless you are a RUGBY PLAYER, and at that, "I did not tell you anything", do whatever 😂 There are many BASIC LATHE books to learn from, and machine lathing is different than Graver use on a lathe. On my current lathe [GERMAN], its repeatable ACCURACY is 0.02mm, or a medium Frog's Eyelash ... on my American lathe, I can repeat cuts to 0.0005 inches, in Brass, Bronze or Steel, Aluminum, ehh, I can repeat to 0.001 inch, so I do not like Aluminum, for turning! philip, from the Great Pacific NorthWET, Oregon Division, USA
Hi Dayton, this series on lathes is super helpful. I'm considering upping my watchmaking game and your long form videos really illustrate everything. Thanks and keep up the good work!
I would consider putting the centre that you have in the tailstock in the headstock and turning it true before using it to test the alignment of headstock and tailstock.
@@IMakeWatches i orderd a veisgrip 3 times two times lost and now there is again a problem with the order omg i need a veisgrip do you have this kind of problems
A minor point of clarification. Collet is pronounced kaa-luht. That's the phonetic spelling. I'm coming from a world of machining where the term is used constantly so I thought I would just mention. Great content, very cool lathe. Machining metal is an awesome skill to have and lots of satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment.
Thanks Paul! I'll check how the French pronounce it over here in Switzerland and will report back! Meanwhile, I already made my follow-up video so don't be offended if it appears that I continue to mis-pronounce it!😂😂😂
@@IMakeWatches Well, as they say, when in Rome... The more I think about it the more sofisticated it sounds. I just won't pronounce it around my machinist buddies. ha ha
@@PaulMorley1 Your pronunciation looks very American to me. In the UK we say Koh-let. Some regional tinges but certainly not Kaa. Since I think the word is French in origin we are probably all saying it 'wrong'.
Thanks! Yeah, that specific lot of five watches revitalized my interest in sub $20 watches! Other buyers see "quartz" in the listing and click away but those transitional hybrid quartz movements are super interesting and I'll be getting into that in detail soon. 😀
Thanks! You're right! If it's not in this video I actually found that there was already a thin brass shim in this tailstock in the next video about it.
They have both. But the tradition of belts (which began as leather belts) goes back to before the electric motor. And even when the electric motor arrived it was harder to make varispeed motors and low speed motors with torque so belt-based countershafts were widely used to be able to quickly adjust both speed and torque using fixed speed motors. And prior to that factories were outfitted with central fixed-speed rotational power on overhead pulley systems so that each worker had belt power at their bench, and prior to electrification that entire system was often powered by a water mill or a team of oxen. That's why my plan for traditional watchmaking eventually involves getting my own team of oxen.
Wow! I'm going to have to look into that! Can it also be used as a pusher in the tailstock? I'm still mystified about most of the accessories but also excited to learn more about them and try each of them out!
Thanks for your question! I just added the info about the motor to the video description. It was ~ US$100 for the 800W motor and bracket, and another $10 - 20 for the pulley wheels. The links are now in the video description.
Clamp works fine. On this bench the Bergeon clamp is mounted to the bench, so the motor was traditionally mounted further back on the bench. I may move my motor back as well but will likely keep it on a separate plate so that I can remove it easily when the lathe is not in play and not put drill holes in my nice benchtop!
You’re right, those screws should give you a small amount of gib adjustment. If the screws don’t get it he could always try a bit of shim stock to get it aligned.
@@markclelland3510 Ive skipped on this design of lathe myself but they are interesting. i figured they would have alignment issues due to wear since the parts slide over and around rod.
That lathe set was an awesome find for just over $300.00. Some of the better lathes like the Wolf Jahn will have a serial number on each component. Check to see if all of the parts, (Headstock, Bed, Tailstock) have the same number stamped on them. If so, that will most likely ensure that perfect alignment can be achieved, because you can be sure the it was perfect when it left the factory as the original set. Oh, and for the love of God man, sharpen that graver. Pick up a Bergeon 2462 and a good stone. Just prepare yourself for a little bit of sticker shock.
Thanks for your comment! I did get some stones and inexpensive sharpening jigs and about eight more gravers in various lots of vintage tools (plus a few brand new ones). Eventually I hope to find a used 2462 or similar.
@@IMakeWatches I would recommend you watch Stephan Gotteswinter - slowspeed carbide grinder. He does larger scale than watches but he still works with great precision and care. And sharp is sharp.
Nice setup you need to get your tool rest back and straight to what your turning . and raise it up to much tool hanging out in front of rest.. have fun learning..
Thanks for your comment George! Yes, I was only trying to test the lathe and do my best from memory of watching other videos. Additional study and practice needed now! 😀
The tools need to be very, very sharp. Your microscope setup shows the contact really well... It looked, to me, that you had the tool upside down, we should see the flat part from the top view. You might need to raise the tool rest, so that the tool approaches the work at close to 90°/flat... There's a nice little series of basics here m.th-cam.com/video/gK-5s5jAg0c/w-d-xo.html have fun! a lathe is pretty magical also clickspring..
Thanks! Yes, I've watched that Dean DK video. Need to review it again now that I have some hands-on knowledge! About clickspring, I lost the clickspring in the first watch I worked on and spent almost three hours making a new one. That was how I first discovered the joy of watchmaking! 😂😂😂
I also saw the same thing, with the tool upside down but that's okay because the lathe is turning clockwise and the most common thing is to do it counterclockwise. About sharpening the tool is true, it is necessary and the angle depends on the material cutted.
Its funny, to you the cost of the machine came to about what 350? Which is about R$2121,21 in my countrys monopoly money. But knowing that every seller in my country is a scalper that knows we cant have anything nice, this machine woud go or about R$15000.
@@IMakeWatches oh, sure, i would pay about R$2121 + about 1/2 in taxes by importing a foreign good. Plus of course the cost of the trip. Mine is a very corrupt country friend, us lower class people cant be allowed good things like a livable wage, let alone incredible machines such as these without paying a high price to our betters.
My God….. what a goober. Im a machinist and I cringed the whole time. Do they not make a cross slide attachment for this lathe? He said he had a CNC machine and hes saying Collette like its a mens shaving razor😂
Thanks for your comment. To be clear, the point of the video is to encourage other beginners that might also be so new to it that they don't know how to pronounce collet to feel comfortable picking up a used watchmaker's lathe and some used gravers and get started themselves. If they get a head start by seeing my mistakes and reading polite thoughtful comments by viewers like you correcting them even better. On my channel's home page I link to @Clickspring, @ChronovaEnginerring and other expert machinist's channels for turorials and further education.
@@dalecostich8794 I’ll post a community post with exact prices and exactly what I got for each of my lathes. Because I built them up those base prices can be a bit deceiving.
That’s a really nice setup! I’m impressed with the microscope and monitor you have mounted. By the way, I learned a lot of what I know about hand turning from Archie Perkins’ book and from Dean DK’s TH-cam channel.
Here are some tips I learned as a beginner lathe user over the past year-
Turn under 1000 rpm, the slower the better. You should be able to just barely visually see the steel turning. 600ish is good. If it’s too fast, the graver will sort of skip over the surface and have a burnishing effect.
Lower the overall setup. I find I have better leverage with it chest height and that also allows me to rest my elbow on the bench for stability.
Keep the tool rest parallel to the work, and as close as possible. Perhaps a millimeter gap when viewed from above. But that will vary. Too large a gap may cause the graver to get pulled under the work, which tends to happen more with the tiny stuff.
Your graver should be sharpened up so the diamond is completely flat. You can turn the work either diamond up or diamond down, as a matter of preference.
The headstock/tailstock alignment test can be done with a razor blade being held between two dead centers. If the blade is straight up and down/front and back, then it’s aligned. I wouldn’t depend on a collet hole for the test.
Excited to see the progression with the new tool. :)
Thanks Chris! I'll try all of these tips! I remember the razor blade test from your lathe video but I knew mine was too far off to even try that. Looking forward to seeing a video about your new rounding up tool!
First time I have been on your channel, but 35 years using Micro, Mini & Large [3 Ton weight !!!] Lathes.
I would say, put away ALL your watch stems, get a piece of Brass 3 mm stock, and PRACTICE on that!
Brass is the easiest material to learn on.
What to cut FIRST? Well, you Need to check your tail stock's allignment, so make a 30° to 45° taper, bring it to a POINT.
1. THAT, as all machinist will tell you, is 100% aligned to the Axis of your Lathe. Any Lathe!
2. Align tailstock Center to THAT POINT! If it is not on center with the point of that brass, then you know your out of alignment, THERE is No BETTER method than that.
2a. Only then can you say if it is off: up, Higher than the Brass Point, down Lower than the Lathes axis. towards the rear of towards the front.
3. ALL REFERENCES is to the AXIS of the LATHE!
3a. THAT BRASS, is or should be YOUR ONLY REFERENCE!
3b. It was mounted in your collet, and EVEN if the collet is not true to the AXIS [other collet systems can have that problem, Watch Makers Lathes are fairly CORRECT to the Lathe AXIS.]
However, back to off axis collet: once yor metal is tight in ANY COLLET, and you make your cuts, That WILL be IN Alignment of the AXIS ! ! !
THAT done, re-alignment is done either with Shim Stock, on the Tail Stock mounting points [plural].
1. off of the "D" bed, one tightens that, above that, as you noted, is at least ONE more adjustment point, that being the barrel lock to lock the [sliding] portion firm to the body of the Tail Stock
2. Although I am NOT familiar with YOUR Lathe, MOST Lathes also have some means to CREATE TAAPERED TURNINGS.
2a. The Tapered turning adjustment Will or SHOULD be between that locking lever at the D Bed, and how the tail barrel is locked!
2b. never use anything to FORCE a tailstock into alignment, unless you are a RUGBY PLAYER, and at that, "I did not tell you anything", do whatever 😂
There are many BASIC LATHE books to learn from, and machine lathing is different than Graver use on a lathe.
On my current lathe [GERMAN], its repeatable ACCURACY is 0.02mm, or a medium Frog's Eyelash ...
on my American lathe, I can repeat cuts to 0.0005 inches, in Brass, Bronze or Steel, Aluminum, ehh, I can repeat to 0.001 inch, so I do not like Aluminum, for turning!
philip, from the Great Pacific NorthWET, Oregon Division, USA
Hi Dayton, this series on lathes is super helpful. I'm considering upping my watchmaking game and your long form videos really illustrate everything. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Thanks!
Wow. thats an amazing filming setup. Im blown away.
Hi Sonny! I forgot to put SD cards in two of the cameras so you ain't seen nothin' yet! 😂😂😂
Absolutely terrific, looking forward to seeing you get to grips with it.
I would consider putting the centre that you have in the tailstock in the headstock and turning it true before using it to test the alignment of headstock and tailstock.
@@stanWorkshop Thanks! I'll do that!
Cool to watch someone "feeling their way" with a new tool...
Thanks for your comments! I just made my first screw on the lathe and will post that video shortly. I appreciate your support!
oei oei oei very nice Lathe Dayton all the stuff with it watchmakers dream ! have fun practicing....fun fun fun haha.. the wathes are awesome wauw !
Thanks Elder Pinto!
@@IMakeWatches i orderd a veisgrip 3 times two times lost and now there is again a problem with the order omg i need a veisgrip do you have this kind of problems
A minor point of clarification. Collet is pronounced kaa-luht. That's the phonetic spelling. I'm coming from a world of machining where the term is used constantly so I thought I would just mention. Great content, very cool lathe. Machining metal is an awesome skill to have and lots of satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment.
Thanks Paul! I'll check how the French pronounce it over here in Switzerland and will report back! Meanwhile, I already made my follow-up video so don't be offended if it appears that I continue to mis-pronounce it!😂😂😂
The French say co-lay, but I'm going with your pronunciation!
@@IMakeWatches Well, as they say, when in Rome... The more I think about it the more sofisticated it sounds. I just won't pronounce it around my machinist buddies. ha ha
@@PaulMorley1 Your pronunciation looks very American to me. In the UK we say Koh-let. Some regional tinges but certainly not Kaa. Since I think the word is French in origin we are probably all saying it 'wrong'.
Great collection you got their at the end
Thanks! Yeah, that specific lot of five watches revitalized my interest in sub $20 watches! Other buyers see "quartz" in the listing and click away but those transitional hybrid quartz movements are super interesting and I'll be getting into that in detail soon. 😀
I'M ALWAYS WATCHING YOU ~ well done ~
you could probably use some thin brass shim stock to shim the tailstock in alignment with the collet center. cheers!
Thanks! You're right! If it's not in this video I actually found that there was already a thin brass shim in this tailstock in the next video about it.
Why do watchmakers' lathes have a belt drive and not a motor with a direct speed regulator?
They have both. But the tradition of belts (which began as leather belts) goes back to before the electric motor. And even when the electric motor arrived it was harder to make varispeed motors and low speed motors with torque so belt-based countershafts were widely used to be able to quickly adjust both speed and torque using fixed speed motors. And prior to that factories were outfitted with central fixed-speed rotational power on overhead pulley systems so that each worker had belt power at their bench, and prior to electrification that entire system was often powered by a water mill or a team of oxen. That's why my plan for traditional watchmaking eventually involves getting my own team of oxen.
amazing video
Thanks!
drawbar pulls collet into the head stock
Wow! I'm going to have to look into that! Can it also be used as a pusher in the tailstock? I'm still mystified about most of the accessories but also excited to learn more about them and try each of them out!
You need the toolrest as close to the work as possible (as in wood turning).
Yes, thanks! That's good advice for other first-timers reading the comments!
well done i feel your excitment
Thanks! Yes it's a never-ending rabbit hole of a hobby! I love it!
Did you buy that motor separately? What motor and controller is it?
Thanks for your question! I just added the info about the motor to the video description. It was ~ US$100 for the 800W motor and bracket, and another $10 - 20 for the pulley wheels. The links are now in the video description.
@@IMakeWatches thankx for sharing
you need a board or an aluminum base for lathe and motor
Clamp works fine. On this bench the Bergeon clamp is mounted to the bench, so the motor was traditionally mounted further back on the bench. I may move my motor back as well but will likely keep it on a separate plate so that I can remove it easily when the lathe is not in play and not put drill holes in my nice benchtop!
And yes its crazy and awesome
look at your lathe tailstock. i think i saw screws. they may ajust alignment
You’re right, those screws should give you a small amount of gib adjustment. If the screws don’t get it he could always try a bit of shim stock to get it aligned.
@@markclelland3510 Ive skipped on this design of lathe myself but they are interesting. i figured they would have alignment issues due to wear since the parts slide over and around rod.
That lathe set was an awesome find for just over $300.00. Some of the better lathes like the Wolf Jahn will have a serial number on each component. Check to see if all of the parts, (Headstock, Bed, Tailstock) have the same number stamped on them. If so, that will most likely ensure that perfect alignment can be achieved, because you can be sure the it was perfect when it left the factory as the original set. Oh, and for the love of God man, sharpen that graver. Pick up a Bergeon 2462 and a good stone. Just prepare yourself for a little bit of sticker shock.
Thanks for your comment! I did get some stones and inexpensive sharpening jigs and about eight more gravers in various lots of vintage tools (plus a few brand new ones). Eventually I hope to find a used 2462 or similar.
@@IMakeWatches I would recommend you watch Stephan Gotteswinter - slowspeed carbide grinder. He does larger scale than watches but he still works with great precision and care. And sharp is sharp.
Nice setup you need to get your tool rest back and straight to what your turning . and raise it up to much tool hanging out in front of rest.. have fun learning..
Thanks for your comment George! Yes, I was only trying to test the lathe and do my best from memory of watching other videos. Additional study and practice needed now! 😀
The tools need to be very, very sharp. Your microscope setup shows the contact really well... It looked, to me, that you had the tool upside down, we should see the flat part from the top view. You might need to raise the tool rest, so that the tool approaches the work at close to 90°/flat... There's a nice little series of basics here
m.th-cam.com/video/gK-5s5jAg0c/w-d-xo.html
have fun! a lathe is pretty magical
also clickspring..
Thanks! Yes, I've watched that Dean DK video. Need to review it again now that I have some hands-on knowledge! About clickspring, I lost the clickspring in the first watch I worked on and spent almost three hours making a new one. That was how I first discovered the joy of watchmaking! 😂😂😂
I also saw the same thing, with the tool upside down but that's okay because the lathe is turning clockwise and the most common thing is to do it counterclockwise.
About sharpening the tool is true, it is necessary and the angle depends on the material cutted.
You have to use the tip part and that curved shape with such a large angle is not suitable for hard materials.
Its funny, to you the cost of the machine came to about what 350? Which is about R$2121,21 in my countrys monopoly money. But knowing that every seller in my country is a scalper that knows we cant have anything nice, this machine woud go or about R$15000.
That's terrible! Can't you buy in Switzerland and have it shipped to you?
@@IMakeWatches oh, sure, i would pay about R$2121 + about 1/2 in taxes by importing a foreign good. Plus of course the cost of the trip. Mine is a very corrupt country friend, us lower class people cant be allowed good things like a livable wage, let alone incredible machines such as these without paying a high price to our betters.
You need to sharpen graver
Thanks! Yes, I figured that out and went overboard buying sharpeners and more gravers! I think I've got it now!
My God….. what a goober.
Im a machinist and I cringed the whole time.
Do they not make a cross slide attachment for this lathe?
He said he had a CNC machine and hes saying Collette like its a mens shaving razor😂
Thanks for your comment. To be clear, the point of the video is to encourage other beginners that might also be so new to it that they don't know how to pronounce collet to feel comfortable picking up a used watchmaker's lathe and some used gravers and get started themselves. If they get a head start by seeing my mistakes and reading polite thoughtful comments by viewers like you correcting them even better. On my channel's home page I link to @Clickspring, @ChronovaEnginerring and other expert machinist's channels for turorials and further education.
Yes please, say collet. not col let.
who in their wrong mind would sell this lathe for 300 bucks?
@@dalecostich8794 I’ll post a community post with exact prices and exactly what I got for each of my lathes. Because I built them up those base prices can be a bit deceiving.
its spelled wolf und jahn ! not wulf tschaaan
Yawn.... 😂😂😂
@@IMakeWatches its IIIIAAAANNN! i try to teach you valuable german language skills here ;)
@@pirminkogleck4056 😂😂😂
No Please! Sharpen that tool, it already looks like a file. Jajaja
I did! Thanks!