In addition to our week by week coverage here on TH-cam, we also cover the war day by day on instagram, filling in things we don't have time to cover here. It's a perfect complement to this. Check it out at: instagram.com/world_war_two_realtime/ ...and please read our rules of conduct before you comment, it saves everyone a hassle: community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
770 tanks in October 1941 is entirely unrealistic and almost certainly an echo of war-time or cold war disinformation. Red army in October still has thousands, not tens of thousands, of tanks, many of which are however in rear areas, notably Moscow and SIBERIA. Glantz When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler. (1995), p. 78. I wonder what happens next ?
vieASma not vyaZHma. Transliteration of Russian to English is regular, always pronounced the same way (like German or Spanish spelling are regular, unlike English or French) Shtulpnaegel not Stupnaegel
It's a shame such a good series will be ending so soon I mean the Soviets will clearly capitulate in the next few weeks .Well at least this time it really was over by christmas ...
As a child I looked forward to Saturday Morning Cartoons. As a Grown man I look forward to you guys. Knowing that 75 years ago these events happened week by week makes for excellent learning and entertainment.
@Srikar Lingampally To me the comment reads like its writer genuinely believes that these weekly episodes cover what happened exactly 75 years ago. It wasn't my intention to be nitpicking, I just thought I'd give a heads up about that not being the case and I am sorry that made you upset.
i can see johann from the supply depo having a panic attack while karl tries to calm him down. When they recieve he news of the forward orders in all the sectors at the same time the generals keep askig them for more fuel, which johann just goes like "fuck it! am going home!"
@@blackhawk4ful Depot commander johann is suffering mental breakdown due to the sight of panzer commanders having a brawl outside the supply depo every day, fighting for the last barrels of fuel and spare parts.
Don't forget there are collossal siege preperations happening in and around moscow at that these very moments, same as before when the Industry was being relocated. The Soviet Logic is that once you retreat, the enemy is free to attack your yet unprepared lines and breakthrough further. It's simply buying as much time as possible
How do I get the emoticons to display properly? It seems they've been getting a lot more popular lately and I'm starting to suspect I'm not seeing them the way they're meant to look. Here's a screenshot: i.imgur.com/4rFwWi1.jpg
@@wtfbros5110 Yes but understand it had its roots in past reality. Elan became a major talking point in French Great War Doctrine because of Napoleon's devastating campaigns. Similarly, German tactics in 1941 were really inspired by 1940's brilliant campaigns
My dad and grandma were evacuated from Odessa on that day. Granddad was killed in the fighting near Odessa. His 2 brothers made it through the war, one got a medal for repairing a tank in the field under fire. Long live all Soviet heroes.
Sounds like at the current rate, the Eastern Front could be over soon with so many Soviet armies getting surrounded into pockets yet again. Yet, for the Germans, I can't help but feel that "I have a bad feeling about this" regarding the changing weather conditions to winter soon.
On the other hand the "rasputitsa"(a swamp instead the roads) will end. And armies relocation speed will increase. After all Germany defeated France in a month.
@@alexandrvasilev2865 Yes, but that would mean the arrival of winter, which would turn the muddy roads to ice. I also worry that the Germans may not have enough winter clothing for their troops, and cold troops generally perform poorly. Plus their supply lines are far too long given the availability of trucks and trains.
Timestamps: 1:00 Reflections on & Analysis of Operation Typhoon 2:56 Operation Typhoon This Week 9:29 Next Moves for Typhoon 10:28 A Change in German Command 11:13 Problems for Typhoon This Week 11:40 German Army Group South This Week 12:16 North Africa This Week 13:24 Summary of the Week 13:33 German Perspective on the Importance of Morale
It’s amazing that operation typhoon was almost out of fuel one week into the campaign, and that the tacticians blatantly disregard the strategic and logistical realities. I think this is a perfect illustration of victory disease. Thanks again Indy and Company.
This also kinda proves to me that if they drove directly towards moscow after Smolensk, they would've had an even worse fuel situation And who's to say they would've done a Vyasma and Bryansk if they attacked earlier? Every time people talk about attacking directly after Smolensk assume that the Vyasma Bryansk pockets scenario would've happened, when in reality if it doesn't, then the Soviets would have enough numbers to stop the German advance that is hampered by supply issues already Yes their defenses there weren't as ready as they were in October, but again the Germans would've been in a worse supplies situation
operation Typhoon isn't something I've studied in detail. I am hoping that the "Miricle outside Moscow" where the Germans are not only halted but pushed back is elaborated on heavily as very little is spoken of this time largely over the Pearl Harbour the first Philippine campaign and the Battle of Hong Kong to say nothing of British Christmas in the desert. Nov/Dec 1941 was a big big time for the world one of those shatter points of history and I hope it is all talked on.
Basically the German armies in December are out of supply and exhausted and then the Soviets counterattack and push them back about 100 miles from Moscow, which will never be seriously in danger for the rest of the war, which is important because Moscow is the central hub for all USSR rail lines and the largest population center in the USSR by far.
@@scottaznavourian540 I think Japan's best option would have been to attack Britain and Netherlands only. Attacking the USSR wasn't realistic (wrong force structure)
@@scottaznavourian540 you do realise america would never stand for japan attacking western territories aft they alrd condemned china, japan's v exposed supply lines from South east asia to homeland wouldve been raided constantly by usn and with the bb fleet intact, early war couldve been a real killer for a spread out ijn supporting landings
Nice to see a quote from Vasily Grossman, also one of my favorite writers. He was a combat war correspondent by this point, famous during the war for his reporting from the front.
if Hitler´s mom live this year, she would say . You stupid Boy, Must Defeat the British first, in order to import the Oil from America, from Iran, or Venezuela, or elsewhere, How can you be so stupid to let the British for invade the commies???
Fedor von Bock might be a good subject for a spotlight episode given his successes and how like most German generals he's overshadowed in general history by Rommel.
I realy cant understand how the soviets did manage to recover the situation after the events of the week. That must be the greatest military achievement of ww2
@@currahee1782 Yeah, but I think it would be smarter to go for the oil fields in the caucasus. Germany needs it and under Stalin the Russians probably won't surrender if they take Moscow.
Indeed. I don't even understand how they can keep a food supply chain, as they lost so much fertile land in the western part of their country, nor how they can supply their army while moving so much of their war industries eastward. This seems so impossible to keep the fighting for so long.
@steve Kaczynski - The Tsar and the Kerensky government weren't fighting wars of annihilation. One of the only ways he Germans could have one won is to ha e used the population's hate of the Bolsheviks against them. Annihilating a population is easy AFTER you destroy the government and the army. You'd think the fricking Nazis would have thought about this.
Running theme for the Red Army well into and during even 42 early 43 is sending reserves out in penny packets just in desperate attempt to plug the gaps and delay the germans. It won't be till LATE next year that they'd have sufficient forces and a ridiculous number of VERY YOUNG and inexpirienced officers have learned enough for them to be able to trully amass forcess sufficient to properly tangle with the Germans on tactical level.
@@Blazo_Djurovic I love how the Red Army gets criticized for this, but rarely do the critics point out that it worked very well. If they'd held back and built up forces before counterattacking, the Wehrmacht would have overrun them completely and been in Moscow before winter. It was brutal but sacrificing those lives bought the Soviets time. This series is great at showing how the grinding attrition wore them down and eventually stopped the German advance - it was the best option the Soviets had.
@@Raskolnikov70 I'm inclined to agree the counter-attacks were probably sound overall. The reasoning being that when attacking you can better concentrate your forces and achieve a better results than if you give the enemy the initiative and always let him have the favorable conditions.
39 days till we see the most confusing battlefield possible, I cant wait to see how the channel covers the envelopment of an envelopment of an envelopment sandwich.
They should probably just post a link to TIK's 10-hour series on it and call it a day. Nobody could make sense out of North Africa, not even the people fighting there at the time.
Operation Typhoon had begun in bright sunshine and General Gotthard Heinrici, the commander of the German 43rd Army Corps, was optimistic: ‘After our triumph at Kiev, we now stand at the gates of the decisive battle in Russia,’ he wrote. ‘We hope with confidence that it will also bring us a great success. The overall situation in the east will largely depend on what is achieved by us in the near future.’ The architect of Typhoon, Field Marshal von Bock, was deploying his forces with considerable skill. With three infantry and three Panzer armies at his disposal - supported by the planes of the Luftwaffe’s Second Air Fleet - he used his advancing infantry, with massive air support, to pin down the opposing Soviet forces while his Panzers broke through their weakened flanks. His tactics were working brilliantly. General Heinrici’s corps - part of the Wehrmacht’s Second Army - engaged the Russians along the length of the Bryansk Front, allowing Germany’s most able tank commander, Colonel General Guderian, to lead his Second Panzer Army in a rapid dash to Orel, turning the entire Soviet position. Guderian then drove his tanks behind Yeremenko’s armies, cutting off all means of escape. The shattering impact of Typhoon’s first few days seemed to justify Heinrici’s hopes of a grand triumph. When Guderian’s Panzers reached the town of Bryansk on 7 October, Major Shabalin declared starkly: ‘History has never witnessed anything like this defeat . . . We have not seen a single one of our aircraft in the last few days. We are giving up cities with practically no resistance.’ He judged that Soviet commanders had irretrievably lost control of the battle, and unaware of Yeremenko’s exploits concluded bitterly, ‘it is rumoured that these idiots are already on their way back to Moscow.’ Yet amidst this heady German optimism, Colonel General Erich Hoepner was feeling uneasy, confiding his doubts to his diary. Summarising the campaign’s first five days, he began positively enough. ‘The military situation is developing well - nearly 30 Soviet divisions will soon be surrounded,’ he stated. Then his tone changed. ‘Things have not been done as I have suggested - that much is clear to me - or even more Russian troops would have been seized.’ Hoepner, the commander of the Fourth Panzer Group, had wanted a deeper encirclement of Russian forces, one that would have trapped all their remaining reserves as well, allowing his tanks to bear down on Moscow as fast as possible. Hoepner felt a real sense of urgency about the attack on the Russian capital. He shared the fears of Hans Jürgen Hartmann serving with Army Group South, that when all seemed lost the Red Army was still capable of regrouping and conjuring up fresh reserves, seemingly out of nowhere. They must not be allowed to do this again. And he knew that after three months of campaigning many German units were seriously depleted, their men exhausted and their equipment worn away through constant use. Hoepner also recognised that the logistics for Typhoon - the continued supply of fuel, food and ammunition for German forward units - would soon become a problem as the lines of communication extended, particularly once the weather changed. And it was the approach of the autumn rainy season, which would turn the Russian dirt roads into quagmires within weeks, even days, that worried him the most. The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
Yet Hitler and the German high command seemed entranced by the encirclement battles, as if the vast haul of prisoners and equipment would bring an end to the struggle by itself. They did not believe that the Red Army had the will or the resilience to keep fighting once these battles were finished. There seemed plenty of evidence for such a view. Stalin had been caught unprepared by Typhoon. After several days of fretful dithering he did make an important decision, recalling General Georgi Zhukov - the Soviet Union’s most able commander - from the defence of Leningrad. Zhukov was now given a new mission, to defend the Soviet capital. On the evening of 7 October the general arrived at the Kremlin to find Stalin alone in his office encumbered with a heavy cold. ‘A very difficult situation has developed,’ the Soviet leader said, pointing to a map of the approaches to Moscow, ‘but I can’t get a detailed report on the actual state of affairs.’ Zhukov was despatched to find out the situation on the ground. Bryansk was now in enemy hands and its defending armies encircled, so Zhukov drove instead to Lieutenant General Konev’s Western Front HQ, reaching it at 2.30 a.m. The news there was scarcely any better: four of its armies were also surrounded by the Germans. Zhukov phoned Stalin and told him bluntly that there were no longer any troops left to stop the Germans reaching Moscow. Konev’s Western Front had suffered a calamity even greater than that at Bryansk. The Wehrmacht’s Fourth Army and Ninth Army had struck against Konev’s front-line forces, while two of their Panzer armies turned his flanks. Once again the Germans quickly got behind Soviet positions and Konev rapidly lost control of events. A plea to Moscow to allow a withdrawal met with little success: ‘I reported to Stalin about the situation,’ Konev recalled, ‘and he listened to me, but made no decision. Communications were disrupted and further conversation ceased.’ Faced with the threat of four of his armies being encircled, Konev pulled the commander of the Soviet Sixteenth Army, Major General Konstantin Rokossovsky, out of the battle line, ordering him back to Vyazma to organise a counter-attack. But Rokossovsky’s efforts to rebut the Germans proved as ill-starred as Yeremenko’s had been. There was no time for reinforcements to be sent; instead, when Rokossovsky arrived at Vyazma he learnt to his consternation that German tanks had already entered its suburbs. Rokossovsky got out as fast as he could. The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
As the Soviets rushed about in confusion, the Germans bearing down on Vyazma were fighting with confidence and cohesion. Major General Wolfgang Fischer’s 10th Panzer Division had broken the Desna river line on the first day of Typhoon, seizing vital road and rail bridges and pushing past the remaining Russian forces. Exploiting his initiative, Fischer continued his advance by the light of the full moon and on the following day had already reached the town of Mozalsk, 40 miles behind the Soviet positions. Fischer’s Panzer charge built up momentum, overtaking unsuspecting Red Army columns still moving in the opposite direction. The bewildered Russians surrendered to him without resistance. Struck by the confusion of the enemy troops, Fischer disarmed his prisoners and sent them rearwards without even bothering to give them a military escort. Fischer maintained his rapid pace, and when twelve Russian trucks smashed into his column, just ahead of his own vehicle, he remained unperturbed. The division’s combat journal recorded that all staff officers were engaged in the fight that followed, Red Army vehicles were quickly disarmed and thirty Soviet prisoners captured. By 6 October Fischer’s force was closing in on Vyazma and with fuel running low and fresh Soviet forces in the area, he struck quickly. Noticing that the town’s defences were weak, he launched an attack that same evening. At 7.15 p.m. the airport was seized; two hours later Fischer’s men broke into Vyazma’s suburbs forcing the Soviet commander, Rokossovsky, to flee in the opposite direction. It was an astonishing success. Rapid, well-coordinated armoured warfare was the hallmark of German blitzkrieg, their devastating ‘lightning war’, and it still seemed that the Russians were unable to counter it. On 7 October, when the German 7th Panzer Division arrived from the north and linked up with Fischer, a shocked and bewildered Konev realised that most of his armies had now been trapped. All he could do was to relay these gloomy tidings to General Zhukov. Zhukov, taken aback, then tried to ascertain the situation at Marshal Budenny’s Reserve Front. He was told that some of Budenny’s force, hurriedly gathered together and with little military training, had disintegrated in panic and the whereabouts of the remainder was unknown. The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
Zhukov decided to find out for himself. As he drove on through the night, searching for the Reserve Front commander, a dense fog descended over the countryside. Alarmingly, when Zhukov eventually reached Budenny’s HQ there was no sign of its commander and no one seemed to know where he was. When Zhukov finally tracked him down he found the Soviet marshal in a state of collapse, only able to repeat, again and again, that he had nearly been captured by the Germans. He had lost touch with his staff for three whole days during the crucial opening phase of the battle. Zhukov was witness to a catastrophe. The twin encirclement battles of Bryansk and Vyazma had left three quarters of a million Red Army soldiers surrounded. It was the Wehrmacht’s greatest success of the war with Russia. As Zhukov was learning of the calamitous state of the Western and Reserve Fronts, General Petrov took up ‘temporary command’ of the Soviet armies encircled around Bryansk. He was less than enthusiastic about his new post. He recalled that another Soviet commander, General Dmitry Pavlov, had been executed by Stalin at the beginning of the war for failing to hold back the Germans. It seemed an unfortunate precedent. ‘Now our high command will shoot me too,’ he told Major Shabalin on 7 October. ‘Why say that?’ Shabalin responded in surprise. ‘The threat is implicit,’ Petrov said carefully, ‘in the phrase “temporary command of the front”. As things stand, I have no idea what is happening to our armies - I cannot find out the strength of my forces, or even where they are.’ The Germans speeding past Bryansk were better informed. General Heinrici’s forces sealed off Petrov’s Fiftieth Army, separating it from the two other armies of the Bryansk Front, then pushed on to the town of Kaluga. On 8 October Heinrici wrote triumphantly: “The enemy was totally surprised by our latest attack. Since our preparations took place out in the open, one would have thought this scarcely possible, yet the Russians knew neither the time of the assault nor its direction, and my army corps - after breaking through their positions on the first and second days of the battle - was able to advance without opposition. The struggle is far from its end, and I expect the encircled enemy to try and break out from these pockets with desperate courage. But I believe the Red Army has been knocked out and will quickly lose the remnants of its forces defending Moscow. At the end of the month Russia will be without a capital” The same day German soldier Heinrich Larsen in Army Group Center sent a letter to his wife: ‘Victory over the Red Army will be ours,’ he declared emphatically. ‘The mighty Führer has promised to end this campaign victoriously before the beginning of the winter. My darling, your wish for a successful end to the war will be fulfilled soon. Moscow, the stronghold of worldwide Bolshevism, will fall in a few days and the remainder of the Russian forces will be annihilated together with their capital . . . Maybe when you read these lines, the war in the east will be over.’ Larsen’s letter - and its sweeping prediction that Moscow would fall within days - was again a product of the Siegseuphorie sweeping the German Army. It was an inflated sense of invincibility, for there were warning signs that the Russians might still be capable of rallying, if given an opportunity. In a clash near Mtensk on the Orel-Tula motor highway, Guderian’s advance formations were briefly disconcerted when the Red Army employed a new design of tank, the T-34, and counter-attacked vigorously. Guderian’s troops were shaken by the speed and armoured strength of this vehicle, which was far superior to their own tanks. Although the T-34 was not yet available in large numbers, the Wehrmacht’s intelligence had been entirely unaware of its existence. The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
Hello Indy, I have to admit, you presentation here on this channel is as superb and articulate as your 224-week presentation of the Great War. As was the case with the Great War, I have been following this since 1 Sept 1939. You and the crew certainly deserve the equivalent of a Oscar for the Great War.
Locally, sure, but not when you consider the Soviet armies stationed in Siberia (and Moscow). Lots of Soviet armies are still in reserve, being held back in case of a Japanese attack, any internal uprising, and to strike a counterattack in Winter.
@@QuizmasterLaw Even then, the Soviet numerical advantage is often overstated. A lot of it comes from German and postwar propaganda, which depicted the Red Army as a poorly-equipped horde of conscripts herded into massive, idiotic human wave attacks and winning only through blind force of numbers. Nazi propaganda started it, then the surviving German generals amplified it in their memoirs (blaming an unbeatably huge Red Army and Hitler conveniently absolved them of any defeats), and of course American propagandists *loved* this sort of material during the Cold War. In reality, a lot of the German perception of overwhelming numbers came from the effect of Soviet offensive tactics (the "deep battle" doctrine), which aimed to launch small attacks everywhere along the front, then keep throwing reserve forces at any place where the attacks succeed in an effort to get behind the enemy. If you're a German soldier defending against that, it certainly seems as if you're up against overwhelming odds - you might be massively outnumbered in your sector, all the other sectors also report attacks and can't spare anyone to help you, and your supply lines are under threat from breakthrough forces.
Got close to what? They would never have been able to actually take Moscow, much less hold it for any length of time, and even if they did, they would still be nowhere close to knocking the USSR out of the war, as all their industry had been moved past the Urals
Theyt got close to Moscow but were never close to completing their plan of enveloping Moscow and cutting it off from the rest of the USSR. They did not plan a house to house urban type fight. They would enter it later when it was weakened.
@@0witw047 This is the correct answer. Taking Moscow would have been just another battle in a long war that the USSR would have won anyway. They'd already moved as much of their productive capacity eastward as they could, they had massive amounts of logistical support from the UK and US, and they weren't anywhere near to running out of soldiers. Germany was already at the limits of their capabilities before they reached Moscow; all of the fighting that came after 1941 was a desperate attempt to fix their supply problems that could never be overcome.
I agree that Moscow would not have ended the war- even that the USSR would have still won. But I still think people underestimate even a siege of Moscow to Soviet planning. That’s the loss of their biggest rail hub. That’s Kiev, Leningrad, and Moscow out of operation. The USSR would have prevailed but it would have been even MORE bloody- and that’s saying something when 80% of males born in 1923 were dead by 1945.
What if the Germans consolidated thier gains after the encirclement battles? Moved to better defensive positions and dig in for the winter. This move will allow supplies to catch up, give the troops badly needed rest and refit the panzer divisions, even though at the same time it will also give the Soviets time to prepare, its better than being overstretched and be destroyed in a counter attack. Of course no one in the German High Command believed that the Red Army will be able to effectively raise new armies and equip them. Imagine the strain the German Generals especially the High Command are being exposed to? They bear the responsibilities of the lives of millions of men, thier people and country's future. It was indeed a daunting task to lead a country into war.
I know I'm commenting two years after the fact but I've been so impressed with this series. Very happy to support via patreon. I'm hoping there'll be a more thorough coverage of what the Germans did with Soviet POWs. By now there must be around 1.5 million off them with many more to come. There've been short references in a few of the episodes but I'm curious about the overall logistics and treatment, which I know was pretty awful.
2:26 According to their own staff reports, they had between 230 and 250 divisions total, mostly rifle divisions. Most of those divisions were at parcial strength, and they include divisions that have "survived" the earlier pockets yet are at only 25% strength at most, having been battered to a point that, had they been British or French units, they would have been disbanded. Yet they were simply training and sending more men to the fight, and raising more units in the interior.
On the other hand, many of the German divisions are also a shadow of what they were, and they are much further away from their reinforcement depots and so on. German description of unit states are starting to use an expression that will become more frequent as the war goes on - "völlig ausgekämpft' - '"completely worn out by fighting".
Thank you, Indy, and all of the Time Ghost crew. Your presentation is spot on, and above all highly engaging. As an armchair historian who has read and studied the Second World War extensively, I can say that you make it seem 'fresh' somehow. I truly enjoy and look forward to new episodes.
Also, a lot of ships from Star Wars came from WWII planes and blasters from WWII guns. Talking about the Original Trilogy and maybe the Prequels. Not the Sequels. Sequels introduced new ships that had designs not coming from WWII.
@@yourstruly4817 US long range strategic bombers have long had variations of the "____ fortress" But even if we say the name is a refrence, that starwars bomber looks nothing like a b17 That said, the imperial windows you see on the tie fighters and Palpatines throne room are slightly reminiscent of the B29's front canopy, and some german aircraft canopies, but thats about it
I am writing a thank you for all of the work that goes into these productions! I have learned a great deal and have even participated in a few discussions. I know, I have not written in some time but it does not mean I have not watched the program every Saturday. Please keep up the good work.
Its true. General winter gets far to much credit. They were halted at the gates, the panzer spearheads in ruins, and were counter attacked ferociously.
After watching this series and reading some books. I put more blame on German leadership then the weather. The weather didn't help but I wonder how much did it hurt compared to sieges that ended in nothing but loss of manpower. Hell were going to see the battle of the bulge' another example of busting out/bulge without a back up plan. its not quite the same situation as Napoleon and his army other then the season.
Well, you can literally see why people love this channel. You guys don't give us history like a prepared meal, which by the way gives way to many of misperceptions on the net, but showing it to us like a radio program that you don't bloody know what's gonna happen. Right now I feel as if I watch an Hoi alternative history timeline, at this point you wouldn't persuade me that the Germans couldn't make it to Kremlin. It is because the history is being represented to us in so decisive a way, again btw many times due to ideological and political concerns, that just sets us up to alienate us from what had actually happened on the ground. Thank you team, if only I had the means to be a Timeghost Army member
It is not really the loss of the panzers in the tank divisions but the attrition of the motorised infantry and of their trucks that was really sapping the strength of the German tank divisions.
Taking a closer look at place names can be important. In Lübeck people wondered why one of an old church's two towers needed constant repairs because it was getting cracks. Turns out it's the tower on the corner to "Sand street". A few corners from my house, there's a street called "Moor Meadow". I hope those houses have extra deep foundations.
It's interesting your mentioning Grossman. I'm about halfway through "Stalingrad" and I already have "Life and Fate" on the shelf. HE's the reason I'm watching your videos which I am enjoying. (Is that the right word?) BTW, his best technique IMHO, is switching from the strategic to the tactical to the human point of view. War is personal.
Despite the mention of "only" around 1 million soviet soldiers on the front compared to bigger german formations we sould take this as a major advantage. We always have to consider the design of both armies and how they replenish. The soviet union has a different military system then germany that enables them to rebuild lost formations and fill them up with men really fast. They might only have a million men, but despite heavy loses they can keep their military size at around a million men stable. The germans always have to fight that number because it doesnt get lower. The soviet military is, as a remnent from the civil war, design around the fast deployment of soldiers. Now the germans on the other hand focus on a core force supplemented by lesser trained troops. This is great in a short war because your military will have a clear advantage with more elite troops. But the Problem against the soviet strategy is that even if a german defeats "10 soviet recruits", they will suffer loses despite that. And the germans can simply not replace those quality loses. This is, ironically, a major problem as a result of the Versailles treaty after WW1. Do to the limit towards 100k the germans trained the shit out of those soldiers to make them the officer core to, in case of war, rapidly rebuild their units with recruits using these core 100k officers. It is a major reason the german army went from a few 100k towards 3 million men in a few years. So this means the german army can only get weaker with time do to lack of proper replenishment to keep up the fight. Meanwhile the sovet strategy is to keep the fight going as long as possible, because even in loosing they take a decend amount of enemies with them. This is partly also the reason for the no surrender order. Even a starving and half dead soldier in a pocket can still kill an enemy before he dies. And if your own choice is to eather fight the germans too the death or face trial as a traitor if you escape, the soldiers will, like a trapped animal, fight to the end. It is similar to water beeing pured on endless sheets of paper. One paper sheet is no problem for water, but the more paper peaces are added after the first, the weaker the "penetration" of the water gets, until it stoppes compleatly. So the war in the east basically comes down to one thing: What will end first, the soviets beeing able to add new sheets of paper (replenish their forces) or the german water loosing its strengh. Edit: By the way the french had a similar problem as the germans, but do to other reasons. The french had a major menpower problem fro soldiers in prime age do to heavy casulties in WW1 and the brith gap as a result of millions of young men beeing dead. The french also had a elite core of forces and the 3 rate forces as support. they tried to fix this problem with the maginot line by making the frontline shorter, so having their better forces be the one to fight the germans in belgium. This obviously didnt work out but it also explains, why after the germans encircled the french and british "elite" forces in Dunkirk, the rest of the france campaign was so comparibly easy for the germans. The french simply couldnt replace them fast enough and only had 3 rate troops left to hold the line. Ironically that would later on be the same problem the germans faced when the soviets were pushing westwars.
@@stevekaczynski3793 That didnt really matter to the soviets though. And no they were not shortening their supply lines because their main industry was at this point beeing moved behind the Urals. That is basically the same lenghts from Moscow then Berlin is. Concerning supply the soviets had two major advantages. 1) The way there army was made up. It was not a highly specialized force at this point in time and relied heavily on massive replenishment. You dont need a lot of complicated weapons to keep most raw infatery divisions in battle. The soviets new from experience during the civil war how to supply an army with the basic minimum under shitty conditions and still keep them fighting. Compared to the civil war situation the soviets are overflowing with supply in late 1941. The soviets are propably at this point in time the most experienced army, even after the officer purge, when it came down to fighting with lack of anything. One of the reasons that they could field new divisons on a huge scale despite massive material loses basically every second week in pockets.
Excellent comment. But there is one thing I would like to argue, the French after Dunkirk actually put up stiffer resistance than expected. It was not really a cakewalk for the Germans. The French surrendered because of the lack of will to fight by the High Command, not the soldiers fault anyway.
The same thing happened to me while i was playing total war warhammer 2(strategy game) i was fighting Norsca(faction with similar weather to Russia)i overextended without developing my towns to support my main army group, nothing could beat my main army group but without support i could not replenish my army long story short half of my army died to attrition due to bad weather and the other half was overrun i lost everything i conquered in Norsca and i had to retreat to my territory.Lesson learned never overextend without proper plan and supply to support your army
Guderian’s Second Panzer attacked on 30 September 1941 and the Army Group’s main assault followed on 2 October 1941 . Guderian made spectacular progress at first, reaching Sevsk on 1 October, and then splitting, reaching Orel by 3 October and Bryansk on 6 October. The Soviet Third and Fiftieth Armies had to dodge and fight their way out eastwards, either side of Bryansk, to avoid encirclement. Guderian’s 7th Panzer Division captured the headquarters of the Bryansk Front 11 kilometres south of the city. Yeremenko and his key staff escaped - just. Once Guderian’s troops reached Orel, the city called ‘Eagle’, on 3 October, the airfield there became a base for dive-bombers and fighters and also a major logistic base for all the requirements of the Second Panzer Group. It also, naturally, became a target for fierce Soviet air attacks. Catastrophic though Bryansk had been, the real catastrophe occurred at Vyaz’ma. Here, Lt Gen. Rokossovskiy, too, had a lucky escape which tells a great deal about the atmosphere in which the Soviet commanders were operating. On the evening of 5 October he received a telegram ordering him to hand over command of his Sixteenth Army to Lt Gen. Yershakov, commanding Twentieth Army, on his left, and to report on the next day with the whole of his Sixteenth Army headquarters to Vyaz’ma, where he would organize a counter-attack with five infantry divisions towards Yukhnov, to the north-west. It sounded ‘strange’, and Rokossovskiy did not like it. ‘Leave the troops at such a time?’ his chief of staff, Malinin, exclaimed. ‘This is incredible!’ Rokossovskiy requested that the order be confirmed in writing and signed by the Front commander, Colonel-General Koniev. That night, an airman delivered the order signed by Koniev and his political commissar, Bulganin. Absolute War , Soviet Russia in Second World War - Chris Bellamy
Reassured but still not happy, Rokossovskiy and his headquarters headed for Vyaz’ma. But when they arrived, there were no divisions for him to command, never mind five. Rokossovskiy found the Smolensk regional party committee and the committees of Smolensk and Vyazma cities crouched in the crypt of Vyaz’ma cathedral. The garrison commander and party officials knew nothing of Rokossovskiy’s orders. ‘All I have is the police force,’ the commander said, glumly. At that moment the mayor rushed in. ‘German tanks are in the city.’ ‘Who reported that?’ said Rokossovskiy. ‘I saw them myself, from the belfry.’ replied the mayor. He could conceivably have misidentified Russian tanks, but Rokossovskiy knew that was most unlikely. ‘Get the cars ready,’ he ordered, and headed up to the belfry to see German tanks machine-gunning other cars which were attempting to escape from the city. Rokossovskiy and his staff headed out of town, at one point almost running into a German tank, and swerving down a side street to avoid it before it could open fire. They returned to their command post about 10 kilometres northeast of the city and assessed the situation. It was obvious that the Germans were doing their favourite move, and encircling Vyaz’ma, which had already fallen. On the next day, 7 October, the Third and Fourth Panzer Groups linked up to form the Vyaz’ma pocket. They had trapped Sixteenth, Nineteenth, Twentieth, Twenty-Fourth and part of Thirty-Second Armies. Both sides were learning, and, mindful of successful Soviet escapes from encirclement in the past, the Germans had stacked up Panzer divisions west of Vyaz’ma. Rokossovskiy’s first instinct, inevitably, was to return to his Sixteenth Army troops, who were being encircled. But his headquarters had been designated for a mission, ‘and we were duty bound to report and find out what it was’. It looked as if the Panzers forming the inner ring of encirclement - to hold the Russians in - had met at Vyaz’ma (in fact, they met just east of the city) and that an outer ring would be established further east to keep relieving Russian forces out. The question was - where? Rokossovskiy decided to break out to the north-east, where he reckoned the German lines were thinnest. At Tumanovo, 40 kilometres to the east of Vyaz’ma on the main railway line to Moscow, his scouts found an NKVD cavalry squadron, who gladly joined the Army headquarters and their charismatic commander. This time, Rokossovskiy was probably pleased to see the NKVD. It had not always been so. Here, they also found several trains with food on board. They loaded what they could into the trucks, and blew up the rest. At one village, they entered a house to gather more information about what lay ahead. The locals were terrified, but welcomed the Soviet brass warmly. After they had heard where the Germans were from a small boy and his mother, a voice came from the corner. ‘What’s going on, comrade Commander?’ It was a grey-bearded old man, the grandfather of the family. ‘Comrade Commander, you’re getting away yourselves, and leaving us behind. We’ve given all we had to help the Red Army, we’d spare the last shirt from our back if it would help. I’m an old soldier myself. I fought the Germans, and we didn’t let them into Russia. What are you doing now?’ Absolute War , Soviet Russia in Second World War - Chris Bellamy
Rokossovskiy felt the words ‘like a slap in the face’. The old man had been wounded twice in the First World War, and was now bedridden. ‘If I were well,’ the old man said, as the strapping 44-year-old general with nine steel teeth, red and gold chevrons on his sleeve and three stars on each collar ducked through the low door and left the humble farmhouse and family to their fate, ‘I’d go and defend Russia myself.’ It cut to the quick, and Rokossovskiy never forgot it. As he and his staff and those they picked up along the way trudged on, there was a report that a U2 light aircraft, used for transporting senior officers and important messages, rather like the German Fiesler Storch, had landed in a field nearby. The Chief of Sixteenth Army’s Air Force, Col. Baranchuk, was sent to investigate. He came back with news that Soviet troops were still holding Gzhatsk (now Gagarin), 35 kilometres east of Tumanovo, and that Voroshilov and Molotov had been seen there the day before. In his excitement, Baranchuk never checked the pilot’s name and did not interrogate him at any length. Rokossovskiy ordered the pilot to be brought to him, but by that time the pilot had then flown off - oddly enough, to the west… It could well have been a German trap. Rokossovskiy and his team headed for Gzhatsk, and ran straight into German forces. An armoured personnel carrier of the reconnaissance detachment hit a mine, and the Germans opened fire, but the main body was strong enough to overcome the opposition. Eventually, on 9 October, after two nights and a day dodging German patrols and picking up stragglers, of whom quite a few had escaped from the inner German encirclement, they reached a forest 40 kilometres from Mozhaysk and made contact with Western Front headquarters. Two U2s were sent to pick up Rokossovskiy and Lobachov. Rokossovskiy said his Chief of Staff, Malinin, was ‘calm’ and ‘pedantic’. Those qualities may have saved Rokossovskiy’s life. ‘Take the order about handing over the sector and troops to Yershakov,’ Malinin said. ‘Why? ‘It may come in handy. You never can tell…’ Malinin was right. When Rokossovskiy arrived, he found a heavyweight Soviet delegation. Molotov, who was Stalin’s Deputy, Voroshilov, Koniev, who had been the Front commander, and Bulganin were all there. The first two were members of the State Defence Committee - GKO. After the brief preliminaries, the question Malinin had anticipated. ‘How come you were at Vyaz’ma with your headquarters but without any troops of the Sixteenth Army?’ asked Voroshilov. ‘The Front commander said the troops I would be taking over would be waiting there …’ Rokossovskiy replied. ‘Strange…’ Rokossovskiy produced the written order signed by Koniev and Bulganin. Had he not, he might well have gone down in history as just another general who panicked, retreated without orders, and deserted his troops. Voroshilov then called in Army General Georgy Zhukov. ‘This is the new commander of the Western Front,’ he said. ‘He will give you your new assignment.’ Rokossovskiy was to hold Volokolamsk, on the main road to Moscow. Koniev was formally relieved of the command on 10 October, but on 17 October, assigned to command the newly created Kalinin Front. Absolute War , Soviet Russia in Second World War - Chris Bellamy
This was a great episode! I’m so thankful for breaking the myth of “untalented Soviet leadership” or “ten times so much losses for the USSR as for Germany”. This video really showed that the Red Army has learned a lot allready in 1941, when the whole existence of my country and my people was under question. Thank you again Indy and team!
Fascinating ! We all know the end of the campaign, but I understand why the German command was optimistic at this point. It seemed that soviet center was really about to collapse with these two last encirclements.
Best ww2 channel the most in-depth coverage of the war that I’ve ever seen shows every aspect of ww2 and in between both ww1 and ww2 watching this channel u will b an expert of ww2
Yeah this is what a lot of people like to ignore. Moscow was a city of millions of people. A whole fully manned army would have been needed to take it and hold it, not a couple armored or motorized divisions
PanzerBlitz, Situation #3, Vyazma. My first wargame. I also bought Panzer Leader, Squad Leader, COI, COD, GI, and Up Front, and Banzai, and Desert War. Good times playing those. I couldn't find anyone to play the strategic level games Russian Front, nor Third Reich. The time and complexity were too much.
I can still hear the screams and screeches of the German logistics officers as they keep getting requests for more and more fuel and supplies from the Panzer divisions.
Geez Indy - this is riveting stuff - such brilliant narrative that you produce with accurate colour photos and those moving "fronts" - and those encirclements and entrapments - it must have been so emotionally destructive to the Soviets to be continually flanked and trapped - all with mind numbing losses of men and material - it really was the logistics (read FUEL) that stopped the Germans - Stahel has constructed such compelling narrative re Logistics at Typhoon that that is what I take from his analysis - however, for me it was that delayed start of Barbarossa by more than a month because of Greece that really saved the Soviets - an extra month of motorised "freedom" with relatively good weather from , say 15th May 1941 instead of 22nd June 1941 would have meant that the Germans would have reached these positions in your video by approximately 1st of September 1941 - with 6 weeks to get to Moscow with pretty favorable weather the entire time - they could have stocked fuel and repaired Tanks for a whole week before moving again - just 10 percent of tanks repaired would have meant an extra 100 to 150 tanks taking part around Vyazema and Bryansk fronts and that would have accelerated their breakthroughs and flanking immensely - Typhoon was the last time the Germans had numerical superiority in men, tanks and aircraft on the Eastern Front - thank you - shared this channel to many other amateur history buffs -
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.15 (1/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TLBjiHvkKtE/mqdefault.jpg)
In addition to our week by week coverage here on TH-cam, we also cover the war day by day on instagram, filling in things we don't have time to cover here. It's a perfect complement to this. Check it out at: instagram.com/world_war_two_realtime/
...and please read our rules of conduct before you comment, it saves everyone a hassle: community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
That was a pretty good pun! But
I hate to rain on your parade...
CHAHNG SHAH
770 tanks in October 1941 is entirely unrealistic and almost certainly an echo of war-time or cold war disinformation. Red army in October still has thousands, not tens of thousands, of tanks, many of which are however in rear areas, notably Moscow and
SIBERIA.
Glantz When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler. (1995), p. 78. I wonder what happens next ?
vieASma not vyaZHma. Transliteration of Russian to English is regular, always pronounced the same way (like German or Spanish spelling are regular, unlike English or French)
Shtulpnaegel not Stupnaegel
It's a shame such a good series will be ending so soon I mean the Soviets will clearly capitulate in the next few weeks .Well at least this time it really was over by christmas ...
And here I finally as soon that you finally got my Star Wars joke from a long long time ago
Germany really doubling down on "rate my encirclement".
Hitler be getting mad upvotes over on r/hoi4
He’s done like 20 massive encirclements
6/10, would infiltrate through German lines and return to the Red Army.
@@meinleiben2043 he is playing on elite doe
There's not a soul that watched this every week that doesn't play hoi4
As a child I looked forward to Saturday Morning Cartoons. As a Grown man I look forward to you guys. Knowing that 75 years ago these events happened week by week makes for excellent learning and entertainment.
You do know that 1941 was 79, and not 75, years ago, right?
I look forward to an update on the war every Saturday
Same. Jackie Chan Adventures and Yugioh ain’t got nothing on Indy.
@Srikar Lingampally To me the comment reads like its writer genuinely believes that these weekly episodes cover what happened exactly 75 years ago. It wasn't my intention to be nitpicking, I just thought I'd give a heads up about that not being the case and I am sorry that made you upset.
@Srikar Lingampally Accuracy is more important than a "positive message".
The german logistic guys just gave up on trying to explain the shortages to the big-shots.
i can see johann from the supply depo having a panic attack while karl tries to calm him down. When they recieve he news of the forward orders in all the sectors at the same time the generals keep askig them for more fuel, which johann just goes like "fuck it! am going home!"
@@blackhawk4ful Depot commander johann is suffering mental breakdown due to the sight of panzer commanders having a brawl outside the supply depo every day, fighting for the last barrels of fuel and spare parts.
@@imtiredtiredtired and karl is desperately looking for some tea to calm poor johann...... but they runed out of tea
And the big-shots stopped caring anyway
“Gun no go bang without bullet”
"If we don't pull back they're gonna surround us ... AGAIN!"
Stalin: "NO PULLING BACK!"
"WE'RE SURROUNDED!!"
Stalin: 👁👄👁
Grab Stalin's vodka stash!
Don't forget there are collossal siege preperations happening in and around moscow at that these very moments, same as before when the Industry was being relocated. The Soviet Logic is that once you retreat, the enemy is free to attack your yet unprepared lines and breakthrough further. It's simply buying as much time as possible
@@yochaiwyss3843 Partly true but Stalin refused retreats when asked which allowed many armies to be surrounded.
Have to admit, Stalin's pull out game was weak!
How do I get the emoticons to display properly? It seems they've been getting a lot more popular lately and I'm starting to suspect I'm not seeing them the way they're meant to look. Here's a screenshot: i.imgur.com/4rFwWi1.jpg
Weirdly this episode was quite upbeat and jolly because of Indy.
Is no one going to talk about the Millennium Falcon on the set!?
Loetz Collector thought I was the only one who noticed lol
Indy makes literally everything better
@@loetzcollector466 what a piece of junk
The snow will soon change his tune. Sooner than expected in fact.....
France in 1914, shortly before catastrophe: "Morale decides battles."
Germany in 1941, shortly before catastrophe: "Morale decides battles."
yeah this Triumph of the Will crap is just German version of Elan
@@wtfbros5110 Yes but understand it had its roots in past reality. Elan became a major talking point in French Great War Doctrine because of Napoleon's devastating campaigns. Similarly, German tactics in 1941 were really inspired by 1940's brilliant campaigns
So this line is bad luck
Also the motto of the unforgotten legend Luigi Cadorna!
@@wtfbros5110 Or Bushido.
My dad and grandma were evacuated from Odessa on that day. Granddad was killed in the fighting near Odessa. His 2 brothers made it through the war, one got a medal for repairing a tank in the field under fire. Long live all Soviet heroes.
They survived Odessa? This comment deserves more likes
It absolutely does
IT’S A TRAP
-Indy Neidell October 10, 2020
Quoting Admiral Akbar.
IT'S A TRAP
-4ABY
"wakka wakka wakka wakka"
*Laughs in rasputitsa*
Princess Leia yells to Luke in Cloud City "it's a trap" one whole movie before Admiral Ackbar
Indy "general akbar" nidel
Sounds like at the current rate, the Eastern Front could be over soon with so many Soviet armies getting surrounded into pockets yet again. Yet, for the Germans, I can't help but feel that "I have a bad feeling about this" regarding the changing weather conditions to winter soon.
Yeah I kind of feel the same
The Mongolians made it look easy.
Napoleon tried and failed miserably.
We'll just have to see if the Germans are as tough as they think they are!
On the other hand the "rasputitsa"(a swamp instead the roads) will end. And armies relocation speed will increase. After all Germany defeated France in a month.
@@alexandrvasilev2865 Yes, but that would mean the arrival of winter, which would turn the muddy roads to ice. I also worry that the Germans may not have enough winter clothing for their troops, and cold troops generally perform poorly. Plus their supply lines are far too long given the availability of trucks and trains.
this is when a serious Japanese attack on the Soviets would have come in handy...what a dysfunctional alliance this was compared to the Allies
I’m not saying I’m about 20+ years behind, but when Indy said “Quartermaster General” I immediately said “Erich Ludendorff” aloud.
eagleclaw899 Same. I’d gotten so used to hearing it on the Great War.
The reference to Admiral Ackbar is top notch!
Agreed.
100 % agreed
Admiral allahu ackbar
Camilo florez cringe
@@asianlifter ur mom
Timestamps:
1:00 Reflections on & Analysis of Operation Typhoon
2:56 Operation Typhoon This Week
9:29 Next Moves for Typhoon
10:28 A Change in German Command
11:13 Problems for Typhoon This Week
11:40 German Army Group South This Week
12:16 North Africa This Week
13:24 Summary of the Week
13:33 German Perspective on the Importance of Morale
Thnx
It's a 15 min video what do you need timestamps for???
@@kanedakrsa why not
Everyone like this!
@@mizcaesar1804 Ok zoomer. Can't pay attention for 15 minutes and needs to skip ahead :p
Indy: "quarter master general..."
Me: Erich ludendorff!!, Wait who the f*cc is this guy??
Heres an og fan . When Indy says German chief of staff I say Conrad Von Hotzerhof
@@alexanderthompson7164 Just one more offensive in the Carpathians it'll work this time I swear
@@TheMemeSheriff Luigi Cadorna assures me this offensive on the Isonzo will finally break through.
@@alexanderthompson7164 i know but when i hear chief of staff i automatically say Conrad Von Hotzerhof
@@TheMemeSheriff Luigi Cadorna: Just one more battle of the Isonzo river . I swear
I know I'm not the official reviewer, but I think this tie is Pretty Neat.
Critics gave it a 2.5/5 though
My favorite so far.
Also my favorite so far, among so many good ones
It’s amazing that operation typhoon was almost out of fuel one week into the campaign, and that the tacticians blatantly disregard the strategic and logistical realities.
I think this is a perfect illustration of victory disease.
Thanks again Indy and Company.
This also kinda proves to me that if they drove directly towards moscow after Smolensk, they would've had an even worse fuel situation
And who's to say they would've done a Vyasma and Bryansk if they attacked earlier? Every time people talk about attacking directly after Smolensk assume that the Vyasma Bryansk pockets scenario would've happened, when in reality if it doesn't, then the Soviets would have enough numbers to stop the German advance that is hampered by supply issues already
Yes their defenses there weren't as ready as they were in October, but again the Germans would've been in a worse supplies situation
Nonsense!
Everyone has seen Star Wars. Even those that did not.
Yeah, all six episodes of it.
@@yourstruly4817 Haha Sequels bad.
By the way, why does Indy mention Hermann Hoth and say "I know, I know", is it because of the ice planet Hoth?
@@yourstruly4817 Three. Four if you count Rogue One. Five if you count the Star Wars Holiday Special.
@@leeboy26 bite your tongue. But Rogue One absolutely has to be counted.
The colourised photographs make it all seem so much more lively and realistic. Thank you for continuing this great effort!
They really should have called it Operation Icarus
Fly like an eagle
Fly as high as the suuuun!!
Oof. The Japanese could have used that name for their Pacific war plans too, come to think of it...
How could they not see Star Wars? They stole their uniform design from the Empire
@Civil War Week By Week because IT’S A TRAP
IKR, and the design of some of their blasters, too!
And ideology :P Racist, misogynist, power concentrated in the hands of a few tyrants, extreme militarism and mysticism.
Copyright infringement. Not only that, but LucasArts copyrighted the term "Nazi". Boy, is Lucas ever going to make a killing in civil court!
Did they steal their British accents from the Empire too?
(please tell me I don't have to explain this joke.....)
Well, at least someone in Germany has seen Star Wars. Hermann Hoth was named after an ice planet.
How did I not see that?
He was also the only handicapped general of the wermachtv (lost his arm in world war 1)
"Hoth? More like 'Colth'!"
You guys should watch Soviet Storm documentary. I remember a metronome was used to warn people of trouble in Leningrad. The heartbeat of Leningrad
The faster the beat, the greater the danger...
operation Typhoon isn't something I've studied in detail. I am hoping that the "Miricle outside Moscow" where the Germans are not only halted but pushed back is elaborated on heavily as very little is spoken of this time largely over the Pearl Harbour the first Philippine campaign and the Battle of Hong Kong to say nothing of British Christmas in the desert. Nov/Dec 1941 was a big big time for the world one of those shatter points of history and I hope it is all talked on.
Basically the German armies in December are out of supply and exhausted and then the Soviets counterattack and push them back about 100 miles from Moscow, which will never be seriously in danger for the rest of the war, which is important because Moscow is the central hub for all USSR rail lines and the largest population center in the USSR by far.
Basically zhukov and yammomato win the war for the allies in a period of 48 hours. Of course yammomato wasn't doing it intentionally
@@scottaznavourian540 I think Japan's best option would have been to attack Britain and Netherlands only. Attacking the USSR wasn't realistic (wrong force structure)
BUT MUH STALINGRAD
MUH EL ALAMEIN
MUH MIDWAY
@@scottaznavourian540 you do realise america would never stand for japan attacking western territories aft they alrd condemned china, japan's v exposed supply lines from South east asia to homeland wouldve been raided constantly by usn and with the bb fleet intact, early war couldve been a real killer for a spread out ijn supporting landings
When Indy did - “Wacka wacka wacka” I cried in laughter
PC gamer was impressed by the gains the master race made this week. The console pheasants will be crushed by christmas.
Cringe
@@freshbaboboss1665 Look at your name, and then your comment.
@@freshbaboboss1665 If you wanna do an autobiography, don't start here.
Nice to see a quote from Vasily Grossman, also one of my favorite writers. He was a combat war correspondent by this point, famous during the war for his reporting from the front.
German Supply: We are out of fuel
German Military: So we build bigger tanks
German Supply: ...
if Hitler´s mom live this year, she would say . You stupid Boy, Must Defeat the British first, in order to import the Oil from America, from Iran, or Venezuela, or elsewhere, How can you be so stupid to let the British for invade the commies???
Drink a shot every time a Soviet army gets encircled
As long as it's not vodka 🌠😵🔫
I'm drunk
Suing for new liver.
The casualties Will be as high as the soviets
For Russians, no problem.
I just finished binge re-watching all 225 episodes of The Great War in the past 5 days. Wow.
Now back to 1941, I suppose.
Fedor von Bock might be a good subject for a spotlight episode given his successes and how like most German generals he's overshadowed in general history by Rommel.
Eastory’s maps are truly amazing. Great job!
The war will be over by Christmas!
Ever heard that before?
All wars will end before Christmas.. eventually :)
@@samuelgordino they say for every war in last 300 years
Coronavirus will be over by summer
@@Seannery11 lol
@@dejankojic4293 day of children's happiness
It's a small detail, but I love that the maps have scales in the right bottom in both kilometres and miles.
Yes! I always look at them for reference.
I realy cant understand how the soviets did manage to recover the situation after the events of the week. That must be the greatest military achievement of ww2
Winter
stalin: hey hitler, wanna hear a joke ?
hitler: ja
stalin: moscow
hitler: i don't get it
stalin: exactly
Stop spoiling stuff!
@@spinosaurusiii7027 Nah he's kidding, I'm sure Hitler will get Moscow.
@@currahee1782 Yeah, but I think it would be smarter to go for the oil fields in the caucasus.
Germany needs it and under Stalin the Russians probably won't surrender if they take Moscow.
@@spinosaurusiii7027 You know what's sad? There are plenty of people in the US who DON'T know how this turns out...
Hitler: Hey, Stalin, wanna hear a joke?
Stalin: No, but you'll tell it anyway.
Hitler: Finland.
Stalin: I don't get it.
Hitler: Surprising, isn't it?
General Mud has entered the game...
9:01 Vassily Grossman was also an excellent observer and war reporter.
It's very impressive the soviets can still fight after such large loses in the previous weeks.
Indeed. I don't even understand how they can keep a food supply chain, as they lost so much fertile land in the western part of their country, nor how they can supply their army while moving so much of their war industries eastward. This seems so impossible to keep the fighting for so long.
@@damienmiquel8513 so it happens that the Soviets are already facing famine and starvation behind the lines
Tsarist Russia collapsed under far less pressure and the Provisional Government failed to do better.
It just shows how much the Germans underestimated them
@steve Kaczynski - The Tsar and the Kerensky government weren't fighting wars of annihilation. One of the only ways he Germans could have one won is to ha e used the population's hate of the Bolsheviks against them. Annihilating a population is easy AFTER you destroy the government and the army. You'd think the fricking Nazis would have thought about this.
Hitler: Noooo! You can't just reform entire armies out of thin air!
Stalin: haha manpower go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Keep in mind the Soviet Armies are much smaller than German ones on count of their Divisions being basically the size of reinforced Germans Regiments.
@@yochaiwyss3843 still, 2000000 people were pows
Running theme for the Red Army well into and during even 42 early 43 is sending reserves out in penny packets just in desperate attempt to plug the gaps and delay the germans. It won't be till LATE next year that they'd have sufficient forces and a ridiculous number of VERY YOUNG and inexpirienced officers have learned enough for them to be able to trully amass forcess sufficient to properly tangle with the Germans on tactical level.
@@Blazo_Djurovic I love how the Red Army gets criticized for this, but rarely do the critics point out that it worked very well. If they'd held back and built up forces before counterattacking, the Wehrmacht would have overrun them completely and been in Moscow before winter. It was brutal but sacrificing those lives bought the Soviets time. This series is great at showing how the grinding attrition wore them down and eventually stopped the German advance - it was the best option the Soviets had.
@@Raskolnikov70 I'm inclined to agree the counter-attacks were probably sound overall. The reasoning being that when attacking you can better concentrate your forces and achieve a better results than if you give the enemy the initiative and always let him have the favorable conditions.
39 days till we see the most confusing battlefield possible, I cant wait to see how the channel covers the envelopment of an envelopment of an envelopment sandwich.
They should probably just post a link to TIK's 10-hour series on it and call it a day. Nobody could make sense out of North Africa, not even the people fighting there at the time.
What's gonna happen in 39 days?
@@OmarChida Operation Crusader, in Libya.
Yo dawg, I heard you like envelopments...
5:25 Nice profile of both Molders and Galland.
5:41 "Smiling Albert" clearly proud of his German cross insignia placement!
Operation Typhoon had begun in bright sunshine and General Gotthard Heinrici, the commander of the German 43rd Army Corps, was optimistic: ‘After our triumph at Kiev, we now stand at the gates of the decisive battle in Russia,’ he wrote. ‘We hope with confidence that it will also bring us a great success. The overall situation in the east will largely depend on what is achieved by us in the near future.’
The architect of Typhoon, Field Marshal von Bock, was deploying his forces with considerable skill. With three infantry and three Panzer armies at his disposal - supported by the planes of the Luftwaffe’s Second Air Fleet - he used his advancing infantry, with massive air support, to pin down the opposing Soviet forces while his Panzers broke through their weakened flanks. His tactics were working brilliantly. General Heinrici’s corps - part of the Wehrmacht’s Second Army - engaged the Russians along the length of the Bryansk Front, allowing Germany’s most able tank commander, Colonel General Guderian, to lead his Second Panzer Army in a rapid dash to Orel, turning the entire Soviet position. Guderian then drove his tanks behind Yeremenko’s armies, cutting off all means of escape.
The shattering impact of Typhoon’s first few days seemed to justify Heinrici’s hopes of a grand triumph. When Guderian’s Panzers reached the town of Bryansk on 7 October, Major Shabalin declared starkly: ‘History has never witnessed anything like this defeat . . . We have not seen a single one of our aircraft in the last few days. We are giving up cities with practically no resistance.’ He judged that Soviet commanders had irretrievably lost control of the battle, and unaware of Yeremenko’s exploits concluded bitterly, ‘it is rumoured that these idiots are already on their way back to Moscow.’
Yet amidst this heady German optimism, Colonel General Erich Hoepner was feeling uneasy, confiding his doubts to his diary. Summarising the campaign’s first five days, he began positively enough. ‘The military situation is developing well - nearly 30 Soviet divisions will soon be surrounded,’ he stated. Then his tone changed. ‘Things have not been done as I have suggested - that much is clear to me - or even more Russian troops would have been seized.’ Hoepner, the commander of the Fourth Panzer Group, had wanted a deeper encirclement of Russian forces, one that would have trapped all their remaining reserves as well, allowing his tanks to bear down on Moscow as fast as possible.
Hoepner felt a real sense of urgency about the attack on the Russian capital. He shared the fears of Hans Jürgen Hartmann serving with Army Group South, that when all seemed lost the Red Army was still capable of regrouping and conjuring up fresh reserves, seemingly out of nowhere. They must not be allowed to do this again. And he knew that after three months of campaigning many German units were seriously depleted, their men exhausted and their equipment worn away through constant use. Hoepner also recognised that the logistics for Typhoon - the continued supply of fuel, food and ammunition for German forward units - would soon become a problem as the lines of communication extended, particularly once the weather changed. And it was the approach of the autumn rainy season, which would turn the Russian dirt roads into quagmires within weeks, even days, that worried him the most.
The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
Yet Hitler and the German high command seemed entranced by the encirclement battles, as if the vast haul of prisoners and equipment would bring an end to the struggle by itself. They did not believe that the Red Army had the will or the resilience to keep fighting once these battles were finished. There seemed plenty of evidence for such a view. Stalin had been caught unprepared by Typhoon. After several days of fretful dithering he did make an important decision, recalling General Georgi Zhukov - the Soviet Union’s most able commander - from the defence of Leningrad. Zhukov was now given a new mission, to defend the Soviet capital. On the evening of 7 October the general arrived at the Kremlin to find Stalin alone in his office encumbered with a heavy cold. ‘A very difficult situation has developed,’ the Soviet leader said, pointing to a map of the approaches to Moscow, ‘but I can’t get a detailed report on the actual state of affairs.’ Zhukov was despatched to find out the situation on the ground.
Bryansk was now in enemy hands and its defending armies encircled, so Zhukov drove instead to Lieutenant General Konev’s Western Front HQ, reaching it at 2.30 a.m. The news there was scarcely any better: four of its armies were also surrounded by the Germans. Zhukov phoned Stalin and told him bluntly that there were no longer any troops left to stop the Germans reaching Moscow.
Konev’s Western Front had suffered a calamity even greater than that at Bryansk. The Wehrmacht’s Fourth Army and Ninth Army had struck against Konev’s front-line forces, while two of their Panzer armies turned his flanks. Once again the Germans quickly got behind Soviet positions and Konev rapidly lost control of events. A plea to Moscow to allow a withdrawal met with little success: ‘I reported to Stalin about the situation,’ Konev recalled, ‘and he listened to me, but made no decision. Communications were disrupted and further conversation ceased.’
Faced with the threat of four of his armies being encircled, Konev pulled the commander of the Soviet Sixteenth Army, Major General Konstantin Rokossovsky, out of the battle line, ordering him back to Vyazma to organise a counter-attack. But Rokossovsky’s efforts to rebut the Germans proved as ill-starred as Yeremenko’s had been. There was no time for reinforcements to be sent; instead, when Rokossovsky arrived at Vyazma he learnt to his consternation that German tanks had already entered its suburbs. Rokossovsky got out as fast as he could.
The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
As the Soviets rushed about in confusion, the Germans bearing down on Vyazma were fighting with confidence and cohesion. Major General Wolfgang Fischer’s 10th Panzer Division had broken the Desna river line on the first day of Typhoon, seizing vital road and rail bridges and pushing past the remaining Russian forces. Exploiting his initiative, Fischer continued his advance by the light of the full moon and on the following day had already reached the town of Mozalsk, 40 miles behind the Soviet positions. Fischer’s Panzer charge built up momentum, overtaking unsuspecting Red Army columns still moving in the opposite direction. The bewildered Russians surrendered to him without resistance. Struck by the confusion of the enemy troops, Fischer disarmed his prisoners and sent them rearwards without even bothering to give them a military escort.
Fischer maintained his rapid pace, and when twelve Russian trucks smashed into his column, just ahead of his own vehicle, he remained unperturbed. The division’s combat journal recorded that all staff officers were engaged in the fight that followed, Red Army vehicles were quickly disarmed and thirty Soviet prisoners captured. By 6 October Fischer’s force was closing in on Vyazma and with fuel running low and fresh Soviet forces in the area, he struck quickly. Noticing that the town’s defences were weak, he launched an attack that same evening. At 7.15 p.m. the airport was seized; two hours later Fischer’s men broke into Vyazma’s suburbs forcing the Soviet commander, Rokossovsky, to flee in the opposite direction. It was an astonishing success.
Rapid, well-coordinated armoured warfare was the hallmark of German blitzkrieg, their devastating ‘lightning war’, and it still seemed that the Russians were unable to counter it. On 7 October, when the German 7th Panzer Division arrived from the north and linked up with Fischer, a shocked and bewildered Konev realised that most of his armies had now been trapped. All he could do was to relay these gloomy tidings to General Zhukov. Zhukov, taken aback, then tried to ascertain the situation at Marshal Budenny’s Reserve Front. He was told that some of Budenny’s force, hurriedly gathered together and with little military training, had disintegrated in panic and the whereabouts of the remainder was unknown.
The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
Zhukov decided to find out for himself. As he drove on through the night, searching for the Reserve Front commander, a dense fog descended over the countryside. Alarmingly, when Zhukov eventually reached Budenny’s HQ there was no sign of its commander and no one seemed to know where he was. When Zhukov finally tracked him down he found the Soviet marshal in a state of collapse, only able to repeat, again and again, that he had nearly been captured by the Germans. He had lost touch with his staff for three whole days during the crucial opening phase of the battle.
Zhukov was witness to a catastrophe. The twin encirclement battles of Bryansk and Vyazma had left three quarters of a million Red Army soldiers surrounded. It was the Wehrmacht’s greatest success of the war with Russia. As Zhukov was learning of the calamitous state of the Western and Reserve Fronts, General Petrov took up ‘temporary command’ of the Soviet armies encircled around Bryansk. He was less than enthusiastic about his new post. He recalled that another Soviet commander, General Dmitry Pavlov, had been executed by Stalin at the beginning of the war for failing to hold back the Germans. It seemed an unfortunate precedent. ‘Now our high command will shoot me too,’ he told Major Shabalin on 7 October. ‘Why say that?’ Shabalin responded in surprise. ‘The threat is implicit,’ Petrov said carefully, ‘in the phrase “temporary command of the front”. As things stand, I have no idea what is happening to our armies - I cannot find out the strength of my forces, or even where they are.’
The Germans speeding past Bryansk were better informed. General Heinrici’s forces sealed off Petrov’s Fiftieth Army, separating it from the two other armies of the Bryansk Front, then pushed on to the town of Kaluga. On 8 October Heinrici wrote triumphantly: “The enemy was totally surprised by our latest attack. Since our preparations took place out in the open, one would have thought this scarcely possible, yet the Russians knew neither the time of the assault nor its direction, and my army corps - after breaking through their positions on the first and second days of the battle - was able to advance without opposition. The struggle is far from its end, and I expect the encircled enemy to try and break out from these pockets with desperate courage. But I believe the Red Army has been knocked out and will quickly lose the remnants of its forces defending Moscow. At the end of the month Russia will be without a capital”
The same day German soldier Heinrich Larsen in Army Group Center sent a letter to his wife: ‘Victory over the Red Army will be ours,’ he declared emphatically. ‘The mighty Führer has promised to end this campaign victoriously before the beginning of the winter. My darling, your wish for a successful end to the war will be fulfilled soon. Moscow, the stronghold of worldwide Bolshevism, will fall in a few days and the remainder of the Russian forces will be annihilated together with their capital . . . Maybe when you read these lines, the war in the east will be over.’
Larsen’s letter - and its sweeping prediction that Moscow would fall within days - was again a product of the Siegseuphorie sweeping the German Army. It was an inflated sense of invincibility, for there were warning signs that the Russians might still be capable of rallying, if given an opportunity. In a clash near Mtensk on the Orel-Tula motor highway, Guderian’s advance formations were briefly disconcerted when the Red Army employed a new design of tank, the T-34, and counter-attacked vigorously. Guderian’s troops were shaken by the speed and armoured strength of this vehicle, which was far superior to their own tanks. Although the T-34 was not yet available in large numbers, the Wehrmacht’s intelligence had been entirely unaware of its existence.
The Retreat , Hitler’s First Defeat - Michael Jones
Very nice of you to write about these extra details
General Mud has taken the field. Watch as he slows the Germans until General winter brings up the reserves
"That is the infantry's job" Every military commander in human history for issues other than swimming and flying.
Hello Indy,
I have to admit, you presentation here on this channel is as superb and articulate as your 224-week presentation of the Great War. As was the case with the Great War, I have been following this since 1 Sept 1939. You and the crew certainly deserve the equivalent of a Oscar for the Great War.
Thank you very much! Hope I get one one day.
Many people dont realise that its the germans who had the numerical advantage up to and and well beyond this point.
And still they couldn't get moscow.
Locally, sure, but not when you consider the Soviet armies stationed in Siberia (and Moscow). Lots of Soviet armies are still in reserve, being held back in case of a Japanese attack, any internal uprising, and to strike a counterattack in Winter.
@@thelumpenproletariat6393 Yes,but Red army needs time to mobilize such high numbers.It was race against time.
@@QuizmasterLaw Even then, the Soviet numerical advantage is often overstated. A lot of it comes from German and postwar propaganda, which depicted the Red Army as a poorly-equipped horde of conscripts herded into massive, idiotic human wave attacks and winning only through blind force of numbers. Nazi propaganda started it, then the surviving German generals amplified it in their memoirs (blaming an unbeatably huge Red Army and Hitler conveniently absolved them of any defeats), and of course American propagandists *loved* this sort of material during the Cold War.
In reality, a lot of the German perception of overwhelming numbers came from the effect of Soviet offensive tactics (the "deep battle" doctrine), which aimed to launch small attacks everywhere along the front, then keep throwing reserve forces at any place where the attacks succeed in an effort to get behind the enemy. If you're a German soldier defending against that, it certainly seems as if you're up against overwhelming odds - you might be massively outnumbered in your sector, all the other sectors also report attacks and can't spare anyone to help you, and your supply lines are under threat from breakthrough forces.
Excite to video! Those maps and animation are so important in understanding battle.
I know that feeling when my panzers run out of fuel playing Panzer General II, and I have to wait a turn while getting resupplied :o(
As an Eastern Front history buff I love your videos. They are the highlight of my week. Keep up the good work and keep them coming.
Just can't believe how impossibly close the Germans got.
Got close to what? They would never have been able to actually take Moscow, much less hold it for any length of time, and even if they did, they would still be nowhere close to knocking the USSR out of the war, as all their industry had been moved past the Urals
Theyt got close to Moscow but were never close to completing their plan of enveloping Moscow and cutting it off from the rest of the USSR. They did not plan a house to house urban type fight. They would enter it later when it was weakened.
@@0witw047 This is the correct answer. Taking Moscow would have been just another battle in a long war that the USSR would have won anyway. They'd already moved as much of their productive capacity eastward as they could, they had massive amounts of logistical support from the UK and US, and they weren't anywhere near to running out of soldiers. Germany was already at the limits of their capabilities before they reached Moscow; all of the fighting that came after 1941 was a desperate attempt to fix their supply problems that could never be overcome.
I agree that Moscow would not have ended the war- even that the USSR would have still won. But I still think people underestimate even a siege of Moscow to Soviet planning. That’s the loss of their biggest rail hub. That’s Kiev, Leningrad, and Moscow out of operation. The USSR would have prevailed but it would have been even MORE bloody- and that’s saying something when 80% of males born in 1923 were dead by 1945.
What if the Germans consolidated thier gains after the encirclement battles? Moved to better defensive positions and dig in for the winter. This move will allow supplies to catch up, give the troops badly needed rest and refit the panzer divisions, even though at the same time it will also give the Soviets time to prepare, its better than being overstretched and be destroyed in a counter attack. Of course no one in the German High Command believed that the Red Army will be able to effectively raise new armies and equip them. Imagine the strain the German Generals especially the High Command are being exposed to? They bear the responsibilities of the lives of millions of men, thier people and country's future. It was indeed a daunting task to lead a country into war.
I know I'm commenting two years after the fact but I've been so impressed with this series. Very happy to support via patreon. I'm hoping there'll be a more thorough coverage of what the Germans did with Soviet POWs. By now there must be around 1.5 million off them with many more to come. There've been short references in a few of the episodes but I'm curious about the overall logistics and treatment, which I know was pretty awful.
2:26 According to their own staff reports, they had between 230 and 250 divisions total, mostly rifle divisions. Most of those divisions were at parcial strength, and they include divisions that have "survived" the earlier pockets yet are at only 25% strength at most, having been battered to a point that, had they been British or French units, they would have been disbanded. Yet they were simply training and sending more men to the fight, and raising more units in the interior.
On the other hand, many of the German divisions are also a shadow of what they were, and they are much further away from their reinforcement depots and so on. German description of unit states are starting to use an expression that will become more frequent as the war goes on - "völlig ausgekämpft' - '"completely worn out by fighting".
The Germans had no idea of the Soviet manpower available. Their intelligence on the USSR was very poor.
The best opening line of all ww1 and ww2 episodes!
Who is this guy Fairly Certan?
We want Indy back
Thank you, Indy, and all of the Time Ghost crew. Your presentation is spot on, and above all highly engaging. As an armchair historian who has read and studied the Second World War extensively, I can say that you make it seem 'fresh' somehow. I truly enjoy and look forward to new episodes.
Also, a lot of ships from Star Wars came from WWII planes and blasters from WWII guns.
Talking about the Original Trilogy and maybe the Prequels. Not the Sequels. Sequels introduced new ships that had designs not coming from WWII.
The crappy slow bombers from TLJ were based on B-17 Flying Fortresses
@@yourstruly4817 is that true? Lol I heard they weren't based of anything special but I guess I was wrong
What ships were based on ww2 planes?
@@ZackMarrs556NAT0 "MG-100 StarFortress SF-17", even the name is obviously a reference to the WW2 "B-17 Flying Fortress".
@@yourstruly4817 US long range strategic bombers have long had variations of the "____ fortress"
But even if we say the name is a refrence, that starwars bomber looks nothing like a b17
That said, the imperial windows you see on the tie fighters and Palpatines throne room are slightly reminiscent of the B29's front canopy, and some german aircraft canopies, but thats about it
I am writing a thank you for all of the work that goes into these productions! I have learned a great deal and have even participated in a few discussions. I know, I have not written in some time but it does not mean I have not watched the program every Saturday. Please keep up the good work.
vicki caldwell thank you!
Saturday morning coffee, pancakes, and World War II - I enjoy this ritual.
Grosmann's Life and Fate is one a classic of world literature. Glad you mentioned him Indy!
Germany: "Forwards! Forwards! Forwards!"
Russian Weather: "I'm about to pull what's called a Pro Gamer Move."
German quartermasters: "wait wait wait!!"
Lack of fuel rather, the effect of the weather is hugely overstated xP
The weather would not have helped much if the soviets had not fought with tenacity, specially regarding the defense of Moscow
Its true. General winter gets far to much credit. They were halted at the gates, the panzer spearheads in ruins, and were counter attacked ferociously.
After watching this series and reading some books. I put more blame on German leadership then the weather. The weather didn't help but I wonder how much did it hurt compared to sieges that ended in nothing but loss of manpower. Hell were going to see the battle of the bulge' another example of busting out/bulge without a back up plan. its not quite the same situation as Napoleon and his army other then the season.
Well, you can literally see why people love this channel. You guys don't give us history like a prepared meal, which by the way gives way to many of misperceptions on the net, but showing it to us like a radio program that you don't bloody know what's gonna happen. Right now I feel as if I watch an Hoi alternative history timeline, at this point you wouldn't persuade me that the Germans couldn't make it to Kremlin. It is because the history is being represented to us in so decisive a way, again btw many times due to ideological and political concerns, that just sets us up to alienate us from what had actually happened on the ground. Thank you team, if only I had the means to be a Timeghost Army member
We definitely need a WW2 Biography Special about Vassily Grossman!
+101. This russian man, engineer, soldier, war correspondant and author (maybe more hence my curiosity) is *big* .
It is not really the loss of the panzers in the tank divisions but the attrition of the motorised infantry and of their trucks that was really sapping the strength of the German tank divisions.
By the way, word "vyaz" of Vyazma means bog or swamp in English
Taking a closer look at place names can be important.
In Lübeck people wondered why one of an old church's two towers needed constant repairs because it was getting cracks. Turns out it's the tower on the corner to "Sand street".
A few corners from my house, there's a street called "Moor Meadow". I hope those houses have extra deep foundations.
It's interesting your mentioning Grossman. I'm about halfway through "Stalingrad" and I already have "Life and Fate" on the shelf. HE's the reason I'm watching your videos which I am enjoying. (Is that the right word?) BTW, his best technique IMHO, is switching from the strategic to the tactical to the human point of view. War is personal.
Stavka : "We are in big trouble,"
It is Zhukov Time.
Just when I feel I can’t love Indy any more, he makes a Star Wars reference... Love the man.
Always a good day when a new episode drops 🇬🇧
Loved: "Vasily Grossman, who is one of my all time favorite novelists"....мой тоже
I know this video is over 1 years old now but i really love this series, a blessing for a ww2 nut like meh
@Comi We appreciate you watching! Remember to subscribe if you want to keep current on the war, we're already in February 1943!
Grossman's Life and Fate is truly a fantastic read
Tell me Indy, did you ever hear the tragedy of Carolus Rex the wise?
Ironic...
Love that you're doing first person current moment instead of constantly "They all lost as we know."
Despite the mention of "only" around 1 million soviet soldiers on the front compared to bigger german formations we sould take this as a major advantage. We always have to consider the design of both armies and how they replenish. The soviet union has a different military system then germany that enables them to rebuild lost formations and fill them up with men really fast. They might only have a million men, but despite heavy loses they can keep their military size at around a million men stable. The germans always have to fight that number because it doesnt get lower. The soviet military is, as a remnent from the civil war, design around the fast deployment of soldiers.
Now the germans on the other hand focus on a core force supplemented by lesser trained troops. This is great in a short war because your military will have a clear advantage with more elite troops. But the Problem against the soviet strategy is that even if a german defeats "10 soviet recruits", they will suffer loses despite that. And the germans can simply not replace those quality loses. This is, ironically, a major problem as a result of the Versailles treaty after WW1. Do to the limit towards 100k the germans trained the shit out of those soldiers to make them the officer core to, in case of war, rapidly rebuild their units with recruits using these core 100k officers. It is a major reason the german army went from a few 100k towards 3 million men in a few years.
So this means the german army can only get weaker with time do to lack of proper replenishment to keep up the fight. Meanwhile the sovet strategy is to keep the fight going as long as possible, because even in loosing they take a decend amount of enemies with them. This is partly also the reason for the no surrender order. Even a starving and half dead soldier in a pocket can still kill an enemy before he dies. And if your own choice is to eather fight the germans too the death or face trial as a traitor if you escape, the soldiers will, like a trapped animal, fight to the end.
It is similar to water beeing pured on endless sheets of paper. One paper sheet is no problem for water, but the more paper peaces are added after the first, the weaker the "penetration" of the water gets, until it stoppes compleatly. So the war in the east basically comes down to one thing: What will end first, the soviets beeing able to add new sheets of paper (replenish their forces) or the german water loosing its strengh.
Edit: By the way the french had a similar problem as the germans, but do to other reasons. The french had a major menpower problem fro soldiers in prime age do to heavy casulties in WW1 and the brith gap as a result of millions of young men beeing dead. The french also had a elite core of forces and the 3 rate forces as support. they tried to fix this problem with the maginot line by making the frontline shorter, so having their better forces be the one to fight the germans in belgium. This obviously didnt work out but it also explains, why after the germans encircled the french and british "elite" forces in Dunkirk, the rest of the france campaign was so comparibly easy for the germans. The french simply couldnt replace them fast enough and only had 3 rate troops left to hold the line. Ironically that would later on be the same problem the germans faced when the soviets were pushing westwars.
They were shortening their supply lines - one advantage retreating armies have.
@@stevekaczynski3793 That didnt really matter to the soviets though. And no they were not shortening their supply lines because their main industry was at this point beeing moved behind the Urals. That is basically the same lenghts from Moscow then Berlin is.
Concerning supply the soviets had two major advantages. 1) The way there army was made up. It was not a highly specialized force at this point in time and relied heavily on massive replenishment. You dont need a lot of complicated weapons to keep most raw infatery divisions in battle. The soviets new from experience during the civil war how to supply an army with the basic minimum under shitty conditions and still keep them fighting. Compared to the civil war situation the soviets are overflowing with supply in late 1941. The soviets are propably at this point in time the most experienced army, even after the officer purge, when it came down to fighting with lack of anything. One of the reasons that they could field new divisons on a huge scale despite massive material loses basically every second week in pockets.
Excellent comment. But there is one thing I would like to argue, the French after Dunkirk actually put up stiffer resistance than expected. It was not really a cakewalk for the Germans. The French surrendered because of the lack of will to fight by the High Command, not the soldiers fault anyway.
You r gettin better and better. Liked the pics of generals, those quotations from the diaries, think details make it even more realistic... C U!
Thanks!
Kursk... Why does that sound so familiar?
We'll come back to that later.
@@Yora21 😏
The same thing happened to me while i was playing total war warhammer 2(strategy game) i was fighting Norsca(faction with similar weather to Russia)i overextended without developing my towns to support my main army group, nothing could beat my main army group but without support i could not replenish my army long story short half of my army died to attrition due to bad weather and the other half was overrun i lost everything i conquered in Norsca and i had to retreat to my territory.Lesson learned never overextend without proper plan and supply to support your army
Guderian’s Second Panzer attacked on 30 September 1941 and the Army Group’s main assault followed on 2 October 1941 . Guderian made spectacular progress at first, reaching Sevsk on 1 October, and then splitting, reaching Orel by 3 October and Bryansk on 6 October. The Soviet Third and Fiftieth Armies had to dodge and fight their way out eastwards, either side of Bryansk, to avoid encirclement. Guderian’s 7th Panzer Division captured the headquarters of the Bryansk Front 11 kilometres south of the city. Yeremenko and his key staff escaped - just.
Once Guderian’s troops reached Orel, the city called ‘Eagle’, on 3 October, the airfield there became a base for dive-bombers and fighters and also a major logistic base for all the requirements of the Second Panzer Group. It also, naturally, became a target for fierce Soviet air attacks.
Catastrophic though Bryansk had been, the real catastrophe occurred at Vyaz’ma. Here, Lt Gen. Rokossovskiy, too, had a lucky escape which tells a great deal about the atmosphere in which the Soviet commanders were operating. On the evening of 5 October he received a telegram ordering him to hand over command of his Sixteenth Army to Lt Gen. Yershakov, commanding Twentieth Army, on his left, and to report on the next day with the whole of his Sixteenth Army headquarters to Vyaz’ma, where he would organize a counter-attack with five infantry divisions towards Yukhnov, to the north-west. It sounded ‘strange’, and Rokossovskiy did not like it. ‘Leave the troops at such a time?’ his chief of staff, Malinin, exclaimed. ‘This is incredible!’ Rokossovskiy requested that the order be confirmed in writing and signed by the Front commander, Colonel-General Koniev. That night, an airman delivered the order signed by Koniev and his political commissar, Bulganin.
Absolute War , Soviet Russia in Second World War - Chris Bellamy
Reassured but still not happy, Rokossovskiy and his headquarters headed for Vyaz’ma. But when they arrived, there were no divisions for him to command, never mind five. Rokossovskiy found the Smolensk regional party committee and the committees of Smolensk and Vyazma cities crouched in the crypt of Vyaz’ma cathedral. The garrison commander and party officials knew nothing of Rokossovskiy’s orders. ‘All I have is the police force,’ the commander said, glumly.
At that moment the mayor rushed in. ‘German tanks are in the city.’ ‘Who reported that?’ said Rokossovskiy. ‘I saw them myself, from the belfry.’ replied the mayor. He could conceivably have misidentified Russian tanks, but Rokossovskiy knew that was most unlikely. ‘Get the cars ready,’ he ordered, and headed up to the belfry to see German tanks machine-gunning other cars which were attempting to escape from the city.
Rokossovskiy and his staff headed out of town, at one point almost running into a German tank, and swerving down a side street to avoid it before it could open fire. They returned to their command post about 10 kilometres northeast of the city and assessed the situation. It was obvious that the Germans were doing their favourite move, and encircling Vyaz’ma, which had already fallen. On the next day, 7 October, the Third and Fourth Panzer Groups linked up to form the Vyaz’ma pocket. They had trapped Sixteenth, Nineteenth, Twentieth, Twenty-Fourth and part of Thirty-Second Armies. Both sides were learning, and, mindful of successful Soviet escapes from encirclement in the past, the Germans had stacked up Panzer divisions west of Vyaz’ma.
Rokossovskiy’s first instinct, inevitably, was to return to his Sixteenth Army troops, who were being encircled. But his headquarters had been designated for a mission, ‘and we were duty bound to report and find out what it was’. It looked as if the Panzers forming the inner ring of encirclement - to hold the Russians in - had met at Vyaz’ma (in fact, they met just east of the city) and that an outer ring would be established further east to keep relieving Russian forces out. The question was - where? Rokossovskiy decided to break out to the north-east, where he reckoned the German lines were thinnest. At Tumanovo, 40 kilometres to the east of Vyaz’ma on the main railway line to Moscow, his scouts found an NKVD cavalry squadron, who gladly joined the Army headquarters and their charismatic commander. This time, Rokossovskiy was probably pleased to see the NKVD. It had not always been so.
Here, they also found several trains with food on board. They loaded what they could into the trucks, and blew up the rest. At one village, they entered a house to gather more information about what lay ahead. The locals were terrified, but welcomed the Soviet brass warmly. After they had heard where the Germans were from a small boy and his mother, a voice came from the corner.
‘What’s going on, comrade Commander?’ It was a grey-bearded old man, the grandfather of the family. ‘Comrade Commander, you’re getting away yourselves, and leaving us behind. We’ve given all we had to help the Red Army, we’d spare the last shirt from our back if it would help. I’m an old soldier myself. I fought the Germans, and we didn’t let them into Russia. What are you doing now?’
Absolute War , Soviet Russia in Second World War - Chris Bellamy
Rokossovskiy felt the words ‘like a slap in the face’. The old man had been wounded twice in the First World War, and was now bedridden. ‘If I were well,’ the old man said, as the strapping 44-year-old general with nine steel teeth, red and gold chevrons on his sleeve and three stars on each collar ducked through the low door and left the humble farmhouse and family to their fate, ‘I’d go and defend Russia myself.’
It cut to the quick, and Rokossovskiy never forgot it. As he and his staff and those they picked up along the way trudged on, there was a report that a U2 light aircraft, used for transporting senior officers and important messages, rather like the German Fiesler Storch, had landed in a field nearby. The Chief of Sixteenth Army’s Air Force, Col. Baranchuk, was sent to investigate. He came back with news that Soviet troops were still holding Gzhatsk (now Gagarin), 35 kilometres east of Tumanovo, and that Voroshilov and Molotov had been seen there the day before. In his excitement, Baranchuk never checked the pilot’s name and did not interrogate him at any length. Rokossovskiy ordered the pilot to be brought to him, but by that time the pilot had then flown off - oddly enough, to the west…
It could well have been a German trap. Rokossovskiy and his team headed for Gzhatsk, and ran straight into German forces. An armoured personnel carrier of the reconnaissance detachment hit a mine, and the Germans opened fire, but the main body was strong enough to overcome the opposition. Eventually, on 9 October, after two nights and a day dodging German patrols and picking up stragglers, of whom quite a few had escaped from the inner German encirclement, they reached a forest 40 kilometres from Mozhaysk and made contact with Western Front headquarters. Two U2s were sent to pick up Rokossovskiy and Lobachov.
Rokossovskiy said his Chief of Staff, Malinin, was ‘calm’ and ‘pedantic’. Those qualities may have saved Rokossovskiy’s life. ‘Take the order about handing over the sector and troops to Yershakov,’ Malinin said.
‘Why?
‘It may come in handy. You never can tell…’
Malinin was right. When Rokossovskiy arrived, he found a heavyweight Soviet delegation. Molotov, who was Stalin’s Deputy, Voroshilov, Koniev, who had been the Front commander, and Bulganin were all there. The first two were members of the State Defence Committee - GKO. After the brief preliminaries, the question Malinin had anticipated.
‘How come you were at Vyaz’ma with your headquarters but without any troops of the Sixteenth Army?’ asked Voroshilov.
‘The Front commander said the troops I would be taking over would be waiting there …’ Rokossovskiy replied.
‘Strange…’ Rokossovskiy produced the written order signed by Koniev and Bulganin.
Had he not, he might well have gone down in history as just another general who panicked, retreated without orders, and deserted his troops.
Voroshilov then called in Army General Georgy Zhukov. ‘This is the new commander of the Western Front,’ he said. ‘He will give you your new assignment.’ Rokossovskiy was to hold Volokolamsk, on the main road to Moscow. Koniev was formally relieved of the command on 10 October, but on 17 October, assigned to command the newly created Kalinin Front.
Absolute War , Soviet Russia in Second World War - Chris Bellamy
@@merdiolu The moral of the story is - get it in writing.
This was a great episode! I’m so thankful for breaking the myth of “untalented Soviet leadership” or “ten times so much losses for the USSR as for Germany”. This video really showed that the Red Army has learned a lot allready in 1941, when the whole existence of my country and my people was under question. Thank you again Indy and team!
Russian winter: Hello there!
Germans: general winter!
"You must realize you are doomed!"
The best intro ever! Bravo Indy & Team!
After this series is over...
Do week-by-week of the Hundred Years War!
Incredible presentation. Outstanding commentary, content & coverage. Awesome job Indy
After two reconissance flights, the plane fact is... I see what you did there Indy
Love you're Work Indy....All the best from Downunder.
"We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down." Bruh....
They came unbelievably close
Fascinating ! We all know the end of the campaign, but I understand why the German command was optimistic at this point. It seemed that soviet center was really about to collapse with these two last encirclements.
Superb episode, well done team
Thanks!
The war will be over by Christmas.
So that was a fucking lie
Yes yes
Germans are screwed
Oh I mean Soviets
Well, technically it was, but unfortunately they didn't stop it for a few more years...
Best ww2 channel the most in-depth coverage of the war that I’ve ever seen shows every aspect of ww2 and in between both ww1 and ww2 watching this channel u will b an expert of ww2
I can’t wait America starts the pacific campaign
If you’re starting a prog rock band, you’re out of your mind if you don’t name it “Meteorological Portents”.
I have the feeling that Hoth will be familiar with a snowy winter
Damn, Guderian really hoping he can drive a lone motorised division into moscow with Soviet defences being wide open.
Yeah this is what a lot of people like to ignore. Moscow was a city of millions of people. A whole fully manned army would have been needed to take it and hold it, not a couple armored or motorized divisions
@@0witw047What about when all those folks are starving?
PanzerBlitz, Situation #3, Vyazma.
My first wargame. I also bought Panzer Leader, Squad Leader, COI, COD, GI, and Up Front, and Banzai, and Desert War. Good times playing those. I couldn't find anyone to play the strategic level games Russian Front, nor Third Reich. The time and complexity were too much.
I can still hear the screams and screeches of the German logistics officers as they keep getting requests for more and more fuel and supplies from the Panzer divisions.
Fascinating. Thank you for your enthusiasm and remarkable knowledge. I really feel as though I'm there!
Evertime you say german quatermaster I immidetly think: "Erich von Ludendorff"
Geez Indy - this is riveting stuff - such brilliant narrative that you produce with accurate colour photos and those moving "fronts" - and those encirclements and entrapments - it must have been so emotionally destructive to the Soviets to be continually flanked and trapped - all with mind numbing losses of men and material - it really was the logistics (read FUEL) that stopped the Germans - Stahel has constructed such compelling narrative re Logistics at Typhoon that that is what I take from his analysis - however, for me it was that delayed start of Barbarossa by more than a month because of Greece that really saved the Soviets - an extra month of motorised "freedom" with relatively good weather from , say 15th May 1941 instead of 22nd June 1941 would have meant that the Germans would have reached these positions in your video by approximately 1st of September 1941 - with 6 weeks to get to Moscow with pretty favorable weather the entire time - they could have stocked fuel and repaired Tanks for a whole week before moving again - just 10 percent of tanks repaired would have meant an extra 100 to 150 tanks taking part around Vyazema and Bryansk fronts and that would have accelerated their breakthroughs and flanking immensely - Typhoon was the last time the Germans had numerical superiority in men, tanks and aircraft on the Eastern Front - thank you - shared this channel to many other amateur history buffs -
There is nothing wrong with swamps, Shrek has blessed us with his creation of swamps. Be thankful
your enthusiasm is great.
Thanks!