HUGE New Official Rulings You NEED to Know! New Cards Might be Broken Now! (Pokemon TCG News)
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I'm imagining we will get an errata in English. "If you do" -> "If you shuffled any energy into your deck this way" or something similar.
Unless the card gets reprinted. That is unlikely. It will be posted on the Compendium though
"You may shuffle ALL energy attached to this pokemon into your deck." That's all they had to do.
@@redwolfcorprevamped8266 why they have to do it?
@@redwolfcorprevamped8266 its not how card intended to work ig. with 4 energy you should shuffle only 3
@@redwolfcorprevamped8266yeah, but then it would be a different effect. Currently if you have 4 or more energy and use the attack and effect, you are left with at least 1 energy still on the ogerpon for a retreat or sob next turn. With the new text you suggested, that interaction would not be the case.
Amazing how they keep coming up with interactions that dramatically shift the gameplay of a fairly simple game. Big fan, haven't seen a bad main set since I started playing 9 months ago
Seems like even the Japanese translation doesn’t fit the ruling for wellspring
The ogerpon ruling makes no sense. The Japanese card also says to shuffle 3 energy in, regardless of what the attack cost is. I think they're going to go back on that ruling and change it to requiring shuffle 3.
if you have 3 energies, you must return all 3 energies even when you use shining crystal. but if only 2 energies attached, then 2 is fine.
@@superfukon we understand that's the ruling. We are saying that doesn't make sense. Saying that's how it works doesn't make it make sense.
Even in Japanese it says discard 3. There should have been no confusion for them but they had to make it confusing
@@danielsmith5032I swear the Japanese judges have poor reading comprehension
@@Thishandleisnt_available not really, every other tcg has a "do as much as you can clause" pokemon should to
They should fix the wording on the Ogerpon to say "shuffle the energy used for this pokemons attack cost into the deck...."
that would change how the card works
with the current text, if a have legacy energy and 3 gift energy (just to give an example) and i use torrential pump, i am allowed to shuffle the 3 gift energy and keep legacy on my ogerpon
with the change you're suggesting, i would be forced to shuffle the legacy energy and 2 gift to do the extra damage.
@@edsylan2275 Ah youre right. Thinking about it further, theres no good way to word it. Even something like "shuffle energy equal to the number of energy in this attacks cost" changes the way the attack works, since there are ways to increase the cost of an attack
shuffle 3 (or all if less) then deal ....
Instead of rewording the ogerpon, the should word the ace spec to specify that it effects secondary attack costs
davidcline, that's not the problem. You decide to discard 3 which grants you the bonus damage and then you are only able to discard 2 but it doesn't matter anymore
So the ruling for Ogerpon means that the ACE SPEC affects not only attacks, but the effects of attacks? Basically it goes from a cost of 3 to 2, and the effect also goes from 3 to 2? They should have clarified that on the ACE SPEC, because to cost of an attack and the cost of the effect of that attack are two separate things.
EDIT: Also the Japanese card is literally the same as the English in terms of the meaning of the phrasing. They both essentially say if you shuffle the 3, key word being the 3, THEN you can do the additional effect. The Japanese card clearly mentions 3, not “any energy,” therefore this is either an errata to buff Wellspring OR it’s a weird unclear interaction with the ACE SPEC
Where is the source for this ruling? It doesn't make sense at all and you don't list it in the description.
Valid
"If this is the case" means exactly the same thing as "If you do".
In both languages, the card requires 3 energy to be shuffled
"If you do (shuffle 3 energy)"
"if that is the case (that you shuffled 3 energy)"
I don't really see a big difference between the JP And EN version of Ogerpon. What seems to be the deciding factor to me is more the description of the crystal tool thing. It should be made clear on that card that it also reduces the cost of secondary attack effects and not just the base attack cost. Because the latter is the one I'd have usually expected it to do, which is why this whole thing with also reducing the shuffling back of energies feels kinda weird to me. But if you can somehow derive that from the tool's text then it's fine I guess.
the tool isnt “reducing the cost” of the ability per say. theyre probably using a “do as much as you can” ruling like some other games have, where you resolve as much of the effect as you can, which in this case is only shuffling back the 2 energy.
@@FizzleIsGaming I can see what you mean but it doesn't really make sense, does it? It says, you MAY shuffle 3 energies back, which you just can't do if you only have double turbo, so I would think you just can't proc the effect because you can, indeed, NOT shuffle 3 energy back that you haven't got attached. You are supposed to "pay" 3 energy to then have the bonus damage happen (at least that's how I would see it) and if you can't do that, you shouldn't be able to do the damage anyway.
Imagine you managed to reduce this attack's cost to 0. Would you then be allowed to always deal the extra damage without shuffling anything back just because you have nothing attached? Nah mate.
This is going to be a mess at league challenges/cups arguing with the judge trying to prove it
Glad to know that creatures understands 1+1=3.
exacly 🤣🤣🤣
The briar ruling is expected but the ogerpon one is very odd to me
Should be very clear that it doesn’t work. If you do is a requirement
so, if the attack cost is reduced to nothing, I get to shuffle 0 cards in and do extra? real question
also, if it's reduced by 1 and I still have 3 energies on it, do I only shuffle 2?
Its becoming more and more common for official rulings to literally go against what the card actually says. Thats not a good thing for the health of a TCG.
the bench damage would be 100 right? because DTE doesn't specify opponent's ACTIVE pokémon
Correct, it's something people often forget, but damage reductions do apply to bench attacks
No because the dte is shuffled back in before the damage is applied
@@tjreversed1536 bench get reduced to 100, is same like greninja ex rule
Wrong, the bench dmg is the effect of the attack. And the number beside the attack is the dmg.
there's a megathread that explains why it's reduced
so essentially with the new colress you can make the wellspring ogerpon hit consistently going 2nd coz you add DTE and town store with colress, use town store to get sparkling crystal and go pew2
Isn’t the new colress only basic energy though? So that wouldn’t work
@@YeastInfector767 nope, it says "an energy card"
Can you use clefables metronome on wellspring to copy torrential pump?
The torrential pump ruling is stupid af
I speak Japanese, in the Japanese it literally says that it has to be three energy attached to the Pokemon. The ruling literally goes against what the card says.
The most relatable situation with the Briar ruling is that when your opponent have cards that reduce prize takes such as Legacy Energy.
I really appreciate these videos. They help me understand the game better! Thanks alot!
Pokemon meta switchups are what keep the game fresh. With that said I don't understand the ogerpond ruling
Legacy energy on a single prizer and pulling off the Briar + Dusknoir and then the KO for 1 prize to take the game is gonna be so much fun.
IMO, the Wellspring ruling makes sense even with the English translations. Sparkling Crystal says that attacks "cost 1 Energy less of any type." The secondary effect of the attack Torrential Pump "costs" 3 Energy, which is reduced to 2 by Sparking Crystal.
To my knowledge, the word "cost" in the PTCG is not limited to the symbols next to an attack, since a retreat "cost" refers to discarding Energy, and can also be manipulated. The glossary on Bulbapedia (which may or may not be reliable) defines "cost" as "an action that is required to happen before the use of an effect," and refers to cards which discard Pokemon (Dangerous Drill) and discard cards (Cinccino SWSH). Based on this interpretation, shuffling Energy back into the deck is the "cost" of the extra 120 damage.
Sure, but the card doesn't say to discard energy equal to the energy cost of the attack. It says 3 energy. The Japanese also says 3 energy. Neither of them say "up to 3" energy. It's poor wording that is going to cause a lot of confusion between people who have read the FAQ and not read the FAQ.
its not considered a cost. Costs are the energy symbols besides the attack's name and the retreat costs, any additional "cost" or payment in the effect of an attack is considered an effect.
Like boomerang energy, it says "If this card is discarded by an effect of an attack used by the Pokémon this card is attached to...".
The problem is the wording, it should say to shuffle the most energy available up to 3.
Just "up to 3 energy" leaves it up to the player, and "3 energy" is too rigid so these problems arise.
The attacks cost are the little circles with colour's in them, that's what is reduced.
in yugioh we call this BKSS - because konami says so. They made a ruling that 100% contradicts the card text in BOTH languages because they wanted it to work contradictory to what was printed.
The Ogerpon thing sounds super dumb & broken. With the new Colress Obsession you can get 1 Stadium (Town Store for the ace spec tool) and 1 Energy (Double Turbo), so getting the turn 1 Torretial Pump is basically free
It should read "You may shuffle 3 energy from this pokemon into your deck. If you shuffled ANY energy this way do additional damage".
The only reason it says 3 is because the attack costs 3. It wasn't written with the tool card in existence so it never would've needed to say "up to" or "all".
"If this is the case" but then if you only shuffle 2 energies, that wouldn't be the case, right?
Also oh my LORD that Dusknoir-Briar-Tera!Zard combo is dirty.
Even in Japanese, that's too overpowered - what tf is TPC thinking? I like pokemon TCG, but the power creep is getting really bad.
This upcoming set is going to be awesome!
yessir
lol the palafin image mentions "palafin's Zero to Hero"
Where can you find the FAQ need to know if the stadium tree ace spec works with cradily
Rare candy works with fossil cards in play, so the tree should work too
The wellspring translation IS THE EXACT SAME AS THE JAPANESE. Please someone explain to me how this is different.
im just saying that japanese translation is the same as the english printing... just reprint the card to say shuffle all energy instead of a specific number of energy cuz this is dumb...
Watch em printing a parallel city stadium next set
That Briar ruling has me worried. The fact that your opponent can manipulate your prize count with the dusclops line and still have Briar active seems so ridiculous.
the new colress finds energy and stadium right? Ogerpon Colress townstore DTE and lets go?
Kyerum is asking about your cars extended warranty…
But regardless, I’d imagine some funny things with four arven and colress, this could very consistently get everything you need for the funny Ogerpon play
Ogerpon can't be damaged from Kyurem if it is on the bench.
@@jan-patrickstrohmeier4878 still, any lost box not running a dusknoir engine or anything using this new colress is asking to be brutally murdered. The sobbing oger is the only terra water type that’s viable to my knowledge, and manaphy does exist but it is still only a one of tech. A kyerum can be in any deck and appear at any time to ruin ya day
@@flambo6554 nobody here was talking about lost box.
@@jan-patrickstrohmeier4878 I was talking about Kyerum, and any deck using Colress’s Tenacity for energy and stadium search as suggested here, or a Colress’s Experiment engine (ie lostbox) will be effected, which is why I brought it up
shouldn't it be 100 snipe from dte reduction?
You'd think so but in order to use the bench snipe, you need to shuffle the energy first. Since the energy is no longer on the Pokemon, there is no damage reduction
@@ecruteakeddie I agree with this but a ton of judges locally have ruled otherwise. Do we know what the official ruling is?
Don't think I need to know these rulings since I don't plan on having any of my tera Pokémon be knocked out anyways
How will that work if the 13 damage knocks out their active? Will you take an extra prize and then attack would u then get an extra prize too if you knock out the new active? Potentially taking 6 prizes in one turn?
Briar specifies the opponent's pokemon needs to be KOd by damage from an attack by a tera pokemon, so thankfully no you don't get the extra prize if dusknoir KOs the active. Still a very scary combo though!
If you plan to kill the active with dusknoir, then use the dusknoir ability first then use briar whe your opponent have new pokemon in the active, so you get extra prize if you k.o it with tera pokemon. If you use briar first you cant get extra prize even you ko new active with tera.
@@superfukon I'm fairly sure Briar would still get the extra prize on the new active because it doesn't specify that you have to KO the current active or the defending pokemon
If it ends up not working on tcg online would the irl card game ruling be based off japanese card still or would tcg online become the offical way the interaction works irl?
Or does japan get tcg online expansions first and it already been tested and works.
PTCGL does not make the rules. They need to program the card interactions correctly
4:14 the card should say all energy up to 3 energy attached to this Pokémon. This wording is terrible.
It should say "You may shuffle 3 energy. If you shuffled any energy this way, ..."
@@jaceraster that still doesn’t clear up the fact you can shuffle less than 3. Up to or another word needs placed there to show you get the effect. You can’t pay the cost and in other cards you don’t get the effect. Like discard 4 energy attached to this pokemon do X doesn’t work unless you discard the 4 energy.
@@pokedadsam9041 that's a fair point didn't think about that
@@jaceraster no problem. It’s a mess and headache and it probably needed more words lol. But they did the Kevin from the office trick. why many word when few words trick 😆
If you include "up to" it would change the effect of the card.
What if you play briar then your turn ends. And you get another turn and play another supporter. Is it still active?
no, just that turn you activate briar
Briar’s text is as follows:
You can use this card only if your opponent has exactly 2 Prize cards remaining.
During this turn, if your opponent's Active Pokémon is Knocked Out by damage from an attack used by your Tera Pokémon, take 1 more Prize card.
Since it expressly says “During this turn” you cannot play the card and save the effect for a future turn.
I still am not sure I understand the Ogerpon thing even after the Japanese explanation lol.
The real explanation is they are mildly retconning how the secondary damage works after you shuffle back cards.
It seems like TPC realized one of their key cards doesn’t work properly as written, so instead of pushing an errata to change the card and get it to work properly, they are changing the rules to make the secondary damage easier to access.
Can Cylene put are zero underdepths an top of your deck?
Yes, why not?
so tera garchomp essentially gets a buff with this ruling, neat
If you are down to 1 prize why does charizard need to take an extra? What am i missing?
Dusclops/ Dusknoir gets your opponent down to one prize, but you still have multiple prizes to take.
In the best case scenario you can play Briar when they have 2 prizes remaining, pop Dusknoir to KO a Pokemon (like an opposing Bibarel or something), then KO a 2 prize Pokemon with your Tera Charizard to take 4 prizes in one turn.
Probably the strongest come back play I’ve seen in a card game in a while
@@richardavila9770 ohhhh yeah I had reversed the remaining prizes in my head and could not for the life of me figure it out. Thanks for clearing it up!
wellsprings attack would do 100 to the bench with double turbo
No because you need to shuffle the energy first to use the bench snipe.
8:24 even in the deck, the card still has an ability, no matter what. There's no "Cards in your deck..... have no abilities" abilities atm
You are correct. However if there was a card like Hex Maniac or the ability lock Wobuffet, Palafin ex would be able to evolve onto Finizen from your hand since it has the evolution info in the top left and its ability would be nullified.
wasn't that already a ruling with similar attacks when used by genome hacking mew?
so the bench hits for 120... not 100? because of dte?
DTE gets shuffled before damage calculation
Wossy Plays Pokemon now!? Super cool
If I’m not mistaken, it’ll be 100 to the bench, not 120.
Dte only reduces active damage
@@PokemonWalkthroughDS it applies to all.
@@myomyintnaing5563 "to your Opponent´s Pokemon" means really just the active. bench damage would be 120
@@julianfire I am confused - so opponent’s benched Pokemon is not opponent’s Pokemon? Also there is no “opponent’s active Pokemon” in Pokemon cards description?
@@julianfire it would say your opponent's "active" pokemon, if it means that. Can u guys even read? Do you even play? why are we even having this conversation here? I don't get it. This is like common sense. Everyone have already played Tera Greninja ex deck and knew it.
Wait I thought DTE changes the damage from 120 to 100?
It gets shuffled before the damage calculation
I dont see how the briar ruling is relevant to actual game play. If i use briar and then they go down to 1 prize and i take a prize, i win. Taking 2 prizes doesnt make any difference if they only have 1 left.
Your opponent has to have 2 prizes left not you. If your opponent has 2 prizes and you have 4 prizes left and you use brier then dusk to take 1 prize and then ko with zard to take the last 3 prizes
colress tenacity turn 1 to get town store and DTE
Isn't 100 to the bench due to double colorless energy?
The effect damage is static. Only the damage listed next to the attack is affected by the Double Turbo Energy.
The energy will be shuffled into the deck before the damage is dealt
Fighting greninja but 170 search any card for free would be nice
You are correct, damage is reduced by DTE so it would be 80 active, 100 bench
It should only do 100 to the bench ?
Fighting greninja
Yea I think wossy messed up on that front, but 100 to the bench is still knocking out everything relevant except for like, uh, Cramorant in lost boxes? I can’t think of anything else in the 110-120 range you aren’t brutally murdering in the meta atm
Briar with wellspring mask will be pretty insane. Thank you for the info Ross!
Briar only works on the active pokemon
I understand why this is contentious, but take rescue stretcher for instance. It requires you to choose one of two affects, which one reads “shuffle 3 pokemon from your discard pile into your deck”. Not “up to 3”, it says 3 exactly. If you intend to use that effect when you have less than 3 but more than zero pokemon in your discard pile, are you allowed to use rescue stretcher in that way? The answer is YES. The solution? If you only have 2 pokemon in the discard you have to shuffle those 2 back, despite what the card text might imply. Just do as much as you can.
For Ogerpon Wellspring, if you use the attack, shuffle 3 energy back. If you don’t have 3 energy attached, shuffle as many as possible back into the deck.
Edit: to be more clear, if ogerpon was ruled to require 3 energy exactly, making you unable to activate the effect unless you had 3 energy to shuffle back then rescue stretcher’s effect would not be able to be activated either. This is not the case however, so the Japanese players are right. The ogerpon effect can be activated for 3 energy, or as many as possible if there are less than 3,
This is the first ruling video I've actually found helpful.
Can I use amp you very much and take 4 prize cards playing briar?
No, iron hands isn't a tera pokemon so it's not affected by briar 😊
Just energy sticker a water energy
lol just use new colress you go get town store and dte legit 1 card full combo
Your Japanese translation still doesn’t mean this work properly. Sounds more like a FAQ/Errata was made after the fact. “If that’s the case” is really no different from “if you do”. They’re both saying if you shuffle 3. So what’s the case if you shuffle 2 or 1, etc…
I think the bigger difference here is “you may choose to” paired with the “if you do” clause instead of the English wording of “you may shuffle.” The effect is tied to the choice of whether or not to shuffle, not whether or not you actually do shuffle.
Done.
Wow, it's gonna get Errata'd.
*100 to the active... because you discard the double turbo for the 2nd affect before you attack the active Pokemon. You don't lose that 20 damage.
They literally just changed this exact ruling for greninja ex which had the same wording. The damage will still be reduced.
@@modernmaniac1780 noooooooo. Do you have a link to that change?
Well I've been doing this in tournaments so I guess I know now. Same for greninja
@@Hephaestus_God I do not know if where pokemon posts official tcg rulings. However this has come up repeatedly at locals. The judges at my locals (I play at 3 different stores) all made announcements several weeks ago that the official ruling had changed and the damage would be reduced. PTCGL has also been updated to reflect this change so greninja ex does the correct damage in the game. The official rules basically say that damage is calculated when the attack is declared before applying the effects so damage is calculated before the energy is discarded.
These rulings are pretty obvious if you already know how to play. For the ogerpon ruling, I don't see why we should adopt the Japanese rulings, we have our cards, our format, and western tcg and Japanese tcg have always been two separate things. "You may shuffle 3 energies from this pokémon into your deck. If you do" literally means "if you shuffled 3 energies into your deck this way", with no interpretation
horrible ruling, the card is clear as day in both languages
Hernandez Sandra Williams Patricia Taylor Joseph
The supossed Japanese translation makes it even more clear that this shouldn't be possible, doesn't make any damn sense.
AHHHH
Hi
Walker Edward White Brian Jackson William
It makes no sense at all
going first sucks ... like you can't play supporters, you can't attack, the only thing you got is evolution before your opponent.
going first seems like a curse now.
Lewis Betty Garcia Jeffrey Lewis Elizabeth
Dte reduces damage by 20 so reality is its doing 100
DTE gets shuffled before damage calculation