Thanks for the shoutout, I'm glad this thing was helpful. A small remark on the pins, in case someone wants to use a normal Dallas module afterwards (may be because of the original look), then it's better to use the round pins. They are thinner and don't widen the socket so much. After inserting the square pins into the socket the original Dallas module will not make a good contact anymore. If the original module is not an option anyway, then it doesn't matter. Theoretically the nwX287 can be even soldered directly into the mainboard without a socket at all, since the battery is now easily replaceable. EDIT: btw. E in the suffix ES means power supply 4.5-5.5V, LS stands for low power supply 2.7-3.6V, LCS stands for wide range power supply 2.7-5.5V. I probably should add this information to the project documentation.
Thanks for your comment Necroware! That's a very good point about the square pins. They were a bit tough to squeeze through the PCB and too long as well, so probably not the best choice overall. I'm going to try to find the rounded ones for the next one I do. Also, thanks for clarification on the suffix letters! I'm assuming the board feeds the RTC +5V on the VCC pin, so either ES or LCS seem like they would be good choices. I was worried the lithium cell would be too low to support the ES in that 4.5-5.5V range, but confirmed in the datasheet that VBAT is a separate input pin designed for a 3V coin cell so looks like that shouldn't matter thankfully.
The substitution is fantastic for the PS/2s that can use it (Models 25 286, 30 286, 35SX, 40SX, 55SX, and 65SX) it avoids the bad selection of a 'C' ('Y2K'-fixed) regular-sized module. I need to try the substitution for the DS1387 (additional 2Kb on-chip for the PS/2 Models 53SLC2, 55LS 486, along with microchannel Reply and NCR planars and models) soon. Upon seeing this pop up again, I just did a tweet-stream on these modules' RTC too.
6:14 Hello In Poland (where I come from), we often encountered poor-quality IC sockets, their biggest drawback was that sometimes some plates in the sockets did not provide good contact to the pins of the IC. After we figured out what the problem was, we started buying only stands with round holes and gold-plated. The first advantage was that such stands "caught" each leg in several places (looking from the top east, west, north and south). Anyone who has ever programmed any chips has certainly encountered a problem with the lack of proper connection of all pins, it frustrated me the most when I used an Asus motherboard with a crap ROM socket as a high-capacity bios programmer (~ 1998 virus Chernobyl). I used it because dedicated professional programmers were ridiculously expensive and never supported all the memory chips that ended up on my desk. Another thing is resistance to environmental conditions, i.e. rust / oxidation, gold does not react almost with anything, so contact with the pins is eternal. In addition, the gold-plated connections ensure the conductivity of even the weakest signals, I learned this while working with radio and audio systems. Such stands were much more expensive, but the projects in which I used them over 25 years ago (e.g. a computer for a gas station) work to this day, I know this because I still use them every now and then. Best wishes.
Good tips, thanks for sharing! I have also noticed that the sockets with round holes are much better. I've started putting the headers with round pins on these adapters as well.
2:58 Une CR2032 aurait été mieux, moi dans ma région je n'ai jamais vu une CR1225 🙁 MAIS MERCI merci quand même a Necroware pour cet excellent job et a vous aussi vswitchzero 🥰
Hi, thanks for the video. Any idea where one can source the RTC ICs in europe cheaply? Right now it seems like they are not available anywhere, or crazy expensive.
It seems that they are getting increasingly difficult to find, unfortunately. I bought the Benchmarq BQ3285ES chips from a Canadian seller on eBay, which weren't the cheapest (about $5 CAD each plus shipping). I have seen some BQ3285 chips and Dallas DS12885s on eBay for much cheaper, but they ship from overseas. The external battery is very convenient, but brand new Dallas DS12887 RTC modules go for about $16 CAD from DigiKey, so depending on the cost of the parts, it may make more sense to just buy a replacement if the chips are too expensive or hard to find. Best of luck finding some!
@@vswitchzero the DS1287/DS12887 are not compatible with the DS12B887/DS12C887. Also I'm not sure how "new" they really are, afaik they are not longer produced so the battery inside might be just as empty as the ones on my mainboard. But I found some Texas Instruments variant on Mouser (13 euro, not really cheap), maybe gonna try out those.
@@JackJack-xj8ei Hi Jack Jack - the Dallas DS12887's I've been buying from DigiKey are indeed new. All have datecodes of 2021 and are still actively manufactured by Maxim Integrated (who took these over from Dallas at some point). The two I've used have worked perfectly. I don't have much experience with the DS12B887/C887, unfortunately. I've heard some boards with these will work fine with a DS12887, but I suppose it all depends on how they utilize the module. I have an ASUS 430HX board with a dead DS12B887 and am interested to see what happens when I swap it out. Best of luck!
@@vswitchzero well I tried those 12887 and it didn't worked. And yes it does say that they are new, but I was somehow skeptical about it (anyone can put a label on something, and with the amount of knock-off chips I've been seein lately...). Gonna try finding something, as soon as I have something that works gonna let you know. Thx
Unfortunately it didnt work for me... my 486 board hangs in boot code 07 every time I stick the necroware module there... if I replace it with the old dallas the board boots right away (even though the battery is dead and it doesn0t save any data) ... it seems this modules are not 100% compatible
Yeah I'm starting to see this more and more with RTC modules. Some boards are picky about RTCs. One of my Gigabyte socket 7 VX boards refuses to use anything by Dallas, but works fine with the Benchmarq model. I submitted this info to the Retro Web page for the board in case it helps others.
@@vswitchzero I eventually made it work... but there is definantly instability... sometimes some settings appear not to be stored and I have had one or two system hangs... but the main problem seemed to be with the CPU jumper settings that were not working correctly (even though they were before I changed the RTC)
I don't think I've ever seen fully assembled units available for sale (at least not based on Necroware's design). You could reach out to him to see if he offers them perhaps? In regards to the sockets, they are just standard DIP 24 sockets with a 2.54mm pitch. I got mine from DigiKey.
Hi Frank, thanks for your comment! Since this is not my design, I wouldn't feel right building and selling them. But you can definitely reach out to Necroware, who may be able to get you one. Or an alternative option would be to buy a new DS12887 module from digikey or mouser, which should be available. Thanks
The ones from ebay probably will have a flat battery. Counterfeiters from far east just sand the date code and apply recent date on them and sell them for cheap. I really don't recommend anyone these rtc chips from ebay!
I always think why you need current date on 25 year old pc used for games ? You timetravel already whats the purpose of taking a look at what time is it? everyone keep smartphone in pocket 🤣
This has nothing to do with telling the time, it's having a working system vs a broken system.. These systems require the RTC module for basic operation and some of them may not boot, lock up, or exhibit even weirder behavior if the RTC module is dead.
Um, dude, if it's taking you 10 times longer to solder as you said, you're definitely doing everything wrong! All your equipment should be clean and properly tinned, your traces should be clean and tinned too, and the solder shouldn't take more than a couple seconds at most to flow. Any longer than a couple seconds and you're most likely burning the circuit board.
Thanks for watching and for the comment! Sorry just to clarify, I was slow constructing it due to lining things up, inspecting joints, correcting bridges, cleaning up a mess of flux etc. It wasn't due to any issues with heat or solder flow. My soldering/desoldering skills have improved a lot since I did that video, but still learning as I go :)
Thanks for the shoutout, I'm glad this thing was helpful. A small remark on the pins, in case someone wants to use a normal Dallas module afterwards (may be because of the original look), then it's better to use the round pins. They are thinner and don't widen the socket so much. After inserting the square pins into the socket the original Dallas module will not make a good contact anymore. If the original module is not an option anyway, then it doesn't matter. Theoretically the nwX287 can be even soldered directly into the mainboard without a socket at all, since the battery is now easily replaceable.
EDIT: btw. E in the suffix ES means power supply 4.5-5.5V, LS stands for low power supply 2.7-3.6V, LCS stands for wide range power supply 2.7-5.5V. I probably should add this information to the project documentation.
Thanks for your comment Necroware! That's a very good point about the square pins. They were a bit tough to squeeze through the PCB and too long as well, so probably not the best choice overall. I'm going to try to find the rounded ones for the next one I do.
Also, thanks for clarification on the suffix letters! I'm assuming the board feeds the RTC +5V on the VCC pin, so either ES or LCS seem like they would be good choices. I was worried the lithium cell would be too low to support the ES in that 4.5-5.5V range, but confirmed in the datasheet that VBAT is a separate input pin designed for a 3V coin cell so looks like that shouldn't matter thankfully.
The substitution is fantastic for the PS/2s that can use it (Models 25 286, 30 286, 35SX, 40SX, 55SX, and 65SX) it avoids the bad selection of a 'C' ('Y2K'-fixed) regular-sized module. I need to try the substitution for the DS1387 (additional 2Kb on-chip for the PS/2 Models 53SLC2, 55LS 486, along with microchannel Reply and NCR planars and models) soon. Upon seeing this pop up again, I just did a tweet-stream on these modules' RTC too.
keep up the good work !
6:14 Hello
In Poland (where I come from), we often encountered poor-quality IC sockets, their biggest drawback was that sometimes some plates in the sockets did not provide good contact to the pins of the IC.
After we figured out what the problem was, we started buying only stands with round holes and gold-plated.
The first advantage was that such stands "caught" each leg in several places (looking from the top east, west, north and south).
Anyone who has ever programmed any chips has certainly encountered a problem with the lack of proper connection of all pins, it frustrated me the most when I used an Asus motherboard with a crap ROM socket as a high-capacity bios programmer (~ 1998 virus Chernobyl). I used it because dedicated professional programmers were ridiculously expensive and never supported all the memory chips that ended up on my desk.
Another thing is resistance to environmental conditions, i.e. rust / oxidation, gold does not react almost with anything, so contact with the pins is eternal.
In addition, the gold-plated connections ensure the conductivity of even the weakest signals, I learned this while working with radio and audio systems.
Such stands were much more expensive, but the projects in which I used them over 25 years ago (e.g. a computer for a gas station) work to this day, I know this because I still use them every now and then.
Best wishes.
Good tips, thanks for sharing! I have also noticed that the sockets with round holes are much better. I've started putting the headers with round pins on these adapters as well.
2:58 Une CR2032 aurait été mieux, moi dans ma région je n'ai jamais vu une CR1225 🙁 MAIS MERCI merci quand même a Necroware pour cet excellent job et a vous aussi vswitchzero 🥰
I made some too! Awesome!
Hi, thanks for the video. Any idea where one can source the RTC ICs in europe cheaply? Right now it seems like they are not available anywhere, or crazy expensive.
It seems that they are getting increasingly difficult to find, unfortunately. I bought the Benchmarq BQ3285ES chips from a Canadian seller on eBay, which weren't the cheapest (about $5 CAD each plus shipping). I have seen some BQ3285 chips and Dallas DS12885s on eBay for much cheaper, but they ship from overseas. The external battery is very convenient, but brand new Dallas DS12887 RTC modules go for about $16 CAD from DigiKey, so depending on the cost of the parts, it may make more sense to just buy a replacement if the chips are too expensive or hard to find. Best of luck finding some!
@@vswitchzero the DS1287/DS12887 are not compatible with the DS12B887/DS12C887. Also I'm not sure how "new" they really are, afaik they are not longer produced so the battery inside might be just as empty as the ones on my mainboard. But I found some Texas Instruments variant on Mouser (13 euro, not really cheap), maybe gonna try out those.
@@JackJack-xj8ei Hi Jack Jack - the Dallas DS12887's I've been buying from DigiKey are indeed new. All have datecodes of 2021 and are still actively manufactured by Maxim Integrated (who took these over from Dallas at some point). The two I've used have worked perfectly. I don't have much experience with the DS12B887/C887, unfortunately. I've heard some boards with these will work fine with a DS12887, but I suppose it all depends on how they utilize the module. I have an ASUS 430HX board with a dead DS12B887 and am interested to see what happens when I swap it out. Best of luck!
@@vswitchzero well I tried those 12887 and it didn't worked. And yes it does say that they are new, but I was somehow skeptical about it (anyone can put a label on something, and with the amount of knock-off chips I've been seein lately...). Gonna try finding something, as soon as I have something that works gonna let you know. Thx
Unfortunately it didnt work for me... my 486 board hangs in boot code 07 every time I stick the necroware module there... if I replace it with the old dallas the board boots right away (even though the battery is dead and it doesn0t save any data) ... it seems this modules are not 100% compatible
Yeah I'm starting to see this more and more with RTC modules. Some boards are picky about RTCs. One of my Gigabyte socket 7 VX boards refuses to use anything by Dallas, but works fine with the Benchmarq model. I submitted this info to the Retro Web page for the board in case it helps others.
@@vswitchzero I eventually made it work... but there is definantly instability... sometimes some settings appear not to be stored and I have had one or two system hangs... but the main problem seemed to be with the CPU jumper settings that were not working correctly (even though they were before I changed the RTC)
Where can I buy assembled ready to use unit?
I don't think I've ever seen fully assembled units available for sale (at least not based on Necroware's design). You could reach out to him to see if he offers them perhaps? In regards to the sockets, they are just standard DIP 24 sockets with a 2.54mm pitch. I got mine from DigiKey.
Where to buy RTC socket?
Hi there, is there any chance you would sell me a RTC module upgrade replacing the Dallas DS12887? Thank You Frank.
Hi Frank, thanks for your comment! Since this is not my design, I wouldn't feel right building and selling them. But you can definitely reach out to Necroware, who may be able to get you one. Or an alternative option would be to buy a new DS12887 module from digikey or mouser, which should be available. Thanks
The ones from ebay probably will have a flat battery. Counterfeiters from far east just sand the date code and apply recent date on them and sell them for cheap. I really don't recommend anyone these rtc chips from ebay!
I always think why you need current date on 25 year old pc used for games ? You timetravel already whats the purpose of taking a look at what time is it? everyone keep smartphone in pocket 🤣
This has nothing to do with telling the time, it's having a working system vs a broken system.. These systems require the RTC module for basic operation and some of them may not boot, lock up, or exhibit even weirder behavior if the RTC module is dead.
Um, dude, if it's taking you 10 times longer to solder as you said, you're definitely doing everything wrong!
All your equipment should be clean and properly tinned, your traces should be clean and tinned too, and the solder shouldn't take more than a couple seconds at most to flow.
Any longer than a couple seconds and you're most likely burning the circuit board.
Thanks for watching and for the comment! Sorry just to clarify, I was slow constructing it due to lining things up, inspecting joints, correcting bridges, cleaning up a mess of flux etc. It wasn't due to any issues with heat or solder flow.
My soldering/desoldering skills have improved a lot since I did that video, but still learning as I go :)
You didn't get his sarcasm, sorry you're not smart enough