ALL CONTENDERS, ALL COMBINATIONS! The Big England Backrow Selection Debate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 เม.ย. 2024
- ALL CONTENDERS, ALL COMBINATIONS! The Big England Backrow Selection Debate
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I have a cunning plan ! Ted Hill at 6. Cummingham-South at 8. Ben Earl at 7 and put George Martin in the second row.
Another great combo! Hill and C-South are such great talents
One thing is for sure Mercer has F'd himself.
CCS doesn’t play 8 did you see Dombrandt form again CCS is a 6 if you have Earl 7 CCS at 6 and Dombrandt at 8 you get mobility carrying linking and good for hard ground which will suit the locations they are going to I think personally 👏
does C-S play 8?
Spot on that would be my backrow
Which ever back row you go with, Ben Earl has to be first choice. He deserves nothing less. For this next tour to Japan/Kiwi -
6 Tom P
7 Ben Earl
8 CCS
20 Ethan Roots
A few points. If Earl is uninjured and on form he MUST play somewhere we build a back row around him. If he plays 8 we do need a decent lineout jumper for balance. Assuming we do pick a tall 6 like Chessum then we do need a very physical in the 2nd row (or 2), so a balanced back 5 is essential. Incredible attacking abilities of Dombrandt and Mercer are not balanced by their defence and tight play - game breaking bench players at best. Almost everyone you've mentioned could do a job now or in the near future. On current form and allowed to be picked Chessum, Underhill/Curry, Earl - Itoje and Martin must play 2nd row.
Agree with all of that. Earl must play. Our back row looked very balanced against Ireland with Chessum/Underhill/Earl. Itoje and Martin are finally a lock partnership deserving of the England lock spots.
Not sure Mercer loses too many points in tight play, he seemed able to break tackles and beat the first man in the top 14. Defence though, not sure he's known for that. In fairness to Dombrandt, seems great over the ball in the ruck.
Agreed - I say you have Barbeary coming off the bench as your game breaking player
I think it’s impossible to talk about backrow combinations without talking about the second row and replacements. As such my back 5 would be: Itoje, Martin, Hill, Underhill, Earl. With Chessum and Cunningham South on the bench.
Yeah spot on you’ve got good ball knowledge.
Hill. Earl. Cunningham south. Pearson a cover all on the bench. Wow!
We are so blessed in the back row position at the minute and that doesn’t include ineligible players like Jack Willis…
How to say you originally forgot to mention Ethan Roots without saying it 😂
Said of a number of players, "inexperienced". There is only one place to gain experience and that is on the pitch. That is better acquired sooner rather than later.
My choices would be Itoji and Martin at 4 & 5 with Cunningham-south at 6, Earl at 7 and Barbeary at 8. A good mix of brute strength and agility.
6. CCS
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
Everything you need from your back row in those 3.
Englands two new centres, Earl & Hill, ! 👹☠️
Cunningham-South 6
Earl 7
Barbeary 8
This will give explosive carrying but good enough defensively too.
Mercer, Hill, Pepper, Pearson as the next cabs off the rank. We have players that can offer more than say an Underhill who can only really tackle.
Think you massively underestimate the impact of underhill yes his core strength in the tackling, how many times around the descent 2019 form was he at the heart of an incredible defence, what I really noticed is Englands inability to wrestle back momentum when the game is going against them when he’s not on the pitch, those show stoppers he puts in gives so much to the team and doesn’t just equate to a descent tackle it’s so much more, balance is very important if the other two members of the back row are providing a bit more ball in hand I think it’s pretty wise to keep him.
I think your first choice back row is very solid... it's so hard to pick considering the options. So many class players will be missing out. The summer tour is one thing - a chance to try out a boat-load of back row options I hope. My first choice would be: CCS/Chessum, Underhill, Earl. In my opinion Earl has to play somewhere. The man is a contender for player of the year and pretty much held us together during the WC.
Arguments can be made for all these players. Great to have depth, because the attritional nature of rugby and the injuries that brings
Earl, Willis & Mercer would be the best to watch. It will all depend on how Steve Borthwick wants to play, and there is definitely a benefit to having players who can cover second row as well.
I think Mercer has shot himself in the foot and won’t make a summer tour
Given the known strengths of the Ben Earl, Underhill, Curry etc we need to try some of the 2nd choices either starting/plenty of time off the bench.
CCS 6, Alfie Barbeary 8, Earl 7, Tom Pearson on the bench. No brainer imo
Love your preferred back row rich. Great for us to have these options. My humble opinion on your combinations is super size one . Martin, Cunningham-south and Barbeary . England need those scary beasts to hit teams hard . Sick of England lacking that for the last 3 years or so. Martin has proved already he’s a beast who can mix it with anyone. Just hope his injury record improves .
For the tour: Hill 6, Pearson 7, Mercer 8 and Cunningham-South on the bench
Good video. Enjoyed seeing most of the options listed.
Given the range of choices I'd disregard the second rowers, especially Martin as he looks like he provides some of the heft we've been missing next to Maro. Then it's probably something like CCS, Underhill and Earl as a first choice selection (Barb on bench). Definitely want to see what the likes of Hill, Pepper, Pearson can do - so hopefully there some scope for rotation and giving players a summer/autumn/6n off to rest at points.
I think the Lions tour is usually the chance to see who else can work their way into the squad and prove that they deserve a place.
Tom Curry, when he comes back, has proven his worth over time. He will occupy 6 or 7 so that leaves two slots from 15 eligible. Great problem to have. One last thing, England should keep second row players from the back row. Its not as if they don't have quality options.
England's scrum looks so good when Martin is in the 2nd row so feel that is where he should be selected
great video, thank you. What about a front row video too?
We've not enough to run a video of them!!
I think that in a couple years we will have pollock in this equation aswell
Barbeary Cunningham south earl martin in 2nd row
One player you have missed out is Jack Clement from Gloucester who can play 6 or 8 who I prefer to Tom Willis currently.
I think Willis is one of the best back rows in world rugby and such a shame for you guys that he is unavailable. Chessum is not a 6. CCS I think would be a great 8. Earl is naturally athletically very gifted he is unfortunately a little small for 8 and is he good enough to be a 7. He is a little in between in my opinion
Chessum proved that he makes a great 6 against Ireland... he was impeccable. Didn't stop for the full 80.
I think the six players you picked are the ones who should be in the squad but I would expect Chessum to remain first choice at 6 unless there are injury issues in the second row (or to himself).
Ted Hill would be the other one I would throw in as I would imagine a bigger squad given how long it would take to send out an injury cover.
Jack Willis is on that Id happily see the overseas rule scrapped for.
The RFU will say there is enough choice to warrant not allowing selection of overseas players but at the v top level it's about that 1-2% extra that you can squeeze out...he has that extra je ne se quais that could be the difference in a game vs NZ or SA. He moved over when Wasps went bust on a short term deal and was quickly signed up to a long term contract in arguably the best club side in the world.
It's the same as a few years ago when there werent many playing overseas but Nick Abendanon and Stefon Armitage both played in France, had each won the European player of the tournament in consecutive years, and England actually needed a 15 and a dynamic backrow. Who knows what their inclusion would've meant for the 2015 WC.
Hill, Earl, Cunningham South
Bench - Curry
Also looks a strong option with good size.
Propping crisis? James Harper gave Joe Marler quite a tough time in the Sale vs Quinn’s match and Fin Baxter has had a major performance recently. They’re almost ready and others are following close behind. Jason Leonard played for England shortly before his 22nd birthday so maybe we could try some of the youngsters sooner rather than later at the top level.
6. Cunningham South - plays 6 for his club, explosive ball carrier
7. Tom Curry - 50 caps of experience already and only 25
8. Earl - Has to start
Bench - Ted Hill and Barbeary.
6) CCS 7) Earl 8) Mercer with Pearson on the bench
Agree with a lot of what's been posted. Namely, Earl HAS to start and you need to consider the locks as well. Itoje, Martin, CCS, Pepper & Earl to start, with Chessum & Barbery on the bench would be my current choice. The 7 & 20 shirts are the ones up for grabs, IMHO. CCS is THE 6, he's also the archetype, while Earl is THE 8. You then simply look at the form 7. They don't need to be a lineout option, they don't need to be especially good carrying the ball, they don't need to be especially good at linking the play, as those traits are taken care of with CCS & Earl. They simply need to be everywhere, all at once, and an absolute menace over the ball. Whatever else they bring to the party is the cherry on top. Finally, I need a destructive ball carrier on the bench, and I think Barbery suits that role extremely well.
Just pick that list as the starting 15
I think you HAVE to play Barbeary at 8. He is nasty. I saw him get a hattrick vs Tigers and he was barrelling boys for fun. Earl has been fantastic, but the way we use our 8 for England it’s close carries and monstering the opponent, no so much wide channels and flair, so Barbeary is our best horrible man option.
Earl has to play 7, he’s too good to leave out the side. Quick, good tackler, good Jackler, and can hopefully find himself wider where he can use his pace.
6 is tough, but I do like the idea of a Lawes-esque 6. The problem is, I’m not sure Chessum has the physicality for it, despite putting in some good performances at 6. With Martin who seems to be the naturally more destructive, if we lose him from the row, we lose a lot of torque pushing through which weakens the scrum. Maybe play Ted Hill or CCS as I think we need the height as an option for jumping.
Bench - I don’t think Barbeary has the engine for a full 80, but with Aled Walters he could get there, even so I think we need a 6/7 sub option and maybe move Earl there late game, so CCS or a Pearson for some size to throw around would be good.
4) Itoje. 5) Martin
6) C-South 7) Earl 8) Barbearry
19) Chessum (can cover 6)
20) Pepper (Earl to 8 and Pepper to 7)
1st choice
6. T Hill 7. Earl 8. Barbeary Bench: mercer
2nd choice
6. Pearson 7. Pepper 8. T Willis bench: Chessum
3rd choice
6. CSouth 7. Evans 8. Mercer bench: Dombrandt
If everyone available for selection and fit:
6. T Hill 7. Earl 8. Barbeary
Bench: T curry/J Willis(can’t decide I guess all depends on the opposition
If Borthwick continues to play fifteen man rugby with defence and attack that he played in the six nations Earl, Cunningham-South and Barbeary
If he regresses to 10 man hoof it away, all defence and hope the attack magically takes care of itself rugby, Curry, Underhill and Earl.
Completely agree
Chessum, Itoje, and Martin are second rows, keep them there. Roots has done nothing wrong. Why not take all the back rowers at let them fight it out what with tour and the autumn internationals we are likely to need them all at some stage....exciting times to be an England fan
If only we had these options at prop or centre!
I think the way we finished the 6 nations and continued club form means Chessum, Underhill and Earl are first choice. I do think if either Hill or Pearson stay fit they could be a menace at 6, adding some real carrying and defensive menace over Chessum’s work-rate, lineout presence and general solidity.
One player who I think has been incredible this season but probably isn’t on anyone’s radar is Sam Graham at Saints. He’s been monstrous and I would think opposing teams hate to play against him as he fights in every tackle, ruck and maul for every single inch.
Simplez.. Just put Ben Earl in the centre
Baxter at Quins is 100% ready for a test go.
6 Hill, 7 Earl 8 Barberry. Speed from Hill and Earl, Barberry doing the hard yards and earl at the breakdown. Lineout option with Hill too. Then CCS and Dombrandt off the bench.
Earl isnt effective at the breakdown at all. Underhill, Curry brothers, jack Willis are all far better in that department. If Earl can improve his jackaling, he would be probably be the best player in the world
I think you keep Martin in the row with Itoje. Then I'd like Pearson at 6, Underhill at 7 and Earl at 8. The bench would then have to be chessum at 19 for the back row and second row cover and ccs at 20. I loved the energy and impact he had off the bench in the ireland game (All be it brief) but I don't know if I trust him to play the full 80 yet but when some of the older guys age out He'll be a lock. I also would love to see Tom Curry in there but obviously we'll have to see if he can get back to the player he was coming in the world cup
Barbeary gives you another alternative... With Jamie George as captain, much like SA, Barbeary could also offer cover off the bench at hooker which would give more options depending on the opposition...
6. Ted Hill 7. Guy Pepper 8. Ben Earl fits in well with a blitz defense with a Martin or Tuima adding further bulk in second row
I have quite enjoyed the Chessum/Underhill/Earl combo that was found at the end of the 6N it allowed Earl to do what he does best.
I can see CCS coming in at 6 in future definitely but I think Chessum's speed is a plus and he picked up a knock against France which hampered him and England
still feel Underhill is Underrated, he is up there as our best back rower for turnovers and actually has very good speed and engine around the park, every "big" England performance has had him in the side and the 2019 NZ semi he was given the task to man-mark Ardie (see Squidge's video) and he kept him out of the game as well as having a try himself written off
Agreed, underhill very underrated. His tackling is something to be desired, especially against the big teams such as SA and NZ
Totally. Underhill is a beast and never seems to have a bad game.
Would allow the selection of two more attacking options, as does so much of the unseen work.
All good players, but I would put them on the same level as Moody, Worsley and Corry from Englands 2003 squad. All dedicated professionals, but not quite at the same world class ability and consistency as the likes of Back, Hill and Dallaglio. Cunningham-South could get there IMO.
I would pick Chessum and Martin as two of my four locks even if one of them starts at 6.
My 6 back-rowers would be:
Ted Hill
CCS
Earl
Mercer
Pepper
Evans (in absence of J Willis - needs to be given a shot and Pearson still needs work)
Mercer and Dombrant are similar and Dombrant has got the better of him every time this year. RE building a back row around Mercer to get the best out of him you could say the same of Dimmers.
It's Lawrence delagios little brother
Can any of them play inside centre ? Does is not dpeend on whether England want to play a pressure game or a running game and therefore on other team selections such as 9, 10 and 12 ?
Agreed - style of play determines who gets selected. If you want to counter-attack more - you want more ball winners. If you want to play territory, you want guys who are great defensively (i.e., stopping front-foot ball). If you want to attack more, you want players who can win the gainline and get to a lot of rucks. If you want a set-piece based game to attack from, you want flexibility (jumpers in the lineout, bulk in the scrum). That's why I always think the 'where is X, they are going great for Y' is so simplistic.
Right now, based on continuity; 6. Cunningham South, 7. Underhill, 8. Earl with Tom Pearson on the bench. For the near future to face big teams like France and RSA my pick would be 6. Ted Hill, 7. Ben Earl, 8. Cunningham South with Tom Pearson or Tom Curry on the bench. This back row provides the full package - line out options, pace and power in attack and defence. PS. Ted Hill has already been a club captain so he also must have some decent leadership qualities too.
Pearson hasn't stood out enough in the prem this season imho. Granted, plenty of injuries hampering him but think Dombrandt, Ted Hill or Barbery have overtaken him. Agree with you on the rest
The problem with the back row is that you need a player who is an additional line out threat, enough ballast to add something to the scrum, great tacklers, great jacklers, close to break down power to break lines with the ball and the ability to add something with the ball in hand wider out. If you pick specialists you end up needing 4 or 5 players.
IMO Dombrandt has had his chances and hasn't given a performance to demand a shirt. I feel his time has passed. Zach Mercer is not the style of player Borthwick wants. Martin should be chosen but as a second row and a good foil to Itoje.
My guess is that Borthwick first will try out various players at 8 knowing he has a perfect back up in Earl. I see England trying both CCS and Alfie in that role.
If we end up with CCS at 8 then I would like to see Hill at 6 and Pepper at 7.
Ultimately though Earl will get a spot in the team because he is just that good, could be any of the back row positions.
The only useful solution is balance with continuity. Need excellence in lineouts, close carrying, wide support, tackling (suited to the current defensive pattern) and above all . . . protecting our own possession. England's style was nearly there in the last couple of games and Earl's success clearly demonstrates that acceleration is more than a match for power at 8. My choices 6: Hill (backups - Chessum, CCS, Pearson) 7: Curry (backups - Curry (when fit), Pepper, Underhill, Pearson, CCS Jack Willis would have been 1st choice) 8:Earl (backups - Dombrandt, CCS, maybe Sam Simmonds if he was available and his ball control at the back of the scrum improved). George Martin is a lock. Can't see Mercer fitting the defensive plan. Wonder if Ted Hill just doesn't "look" urgent enough in defence though he's a great defender.
We have too many good and big number 8's to play Earl there, he should be at 7 which is the right position for his size and Cunningham South at 6 and Barbary or Dombrandt at 8, the competition for back rowers for England is insane we just need more props now!!
Too many great back row options to have Chessum or Martin at 6. Move Earl back to 7 and bring in all the new talents like Cunningham-South, Hill, Barbeary, Pearson, even Tom Willis who are the carriers England need.
Chessum 6; Underhill 7 and Earl 8...until Curry comes back then he takes 7.
Barbeary, C-South as backups at 6 and 8.
Ted Hill and Tom Willis as backup lock or 6.
Jack Willis as backup 7.
The rest can go back to the Prem.
Ben Earl has shown that it’s not just being huge but mentality that helps you make it - on that basis I would not go with Dombrandt, Pearson and maybe Ben Curry, though he has made a leap forward recently. I also think Mercer would be another Dombrandt and not make it internationally. I like all the rest and would make space for Hill, as long as he is doesn’t have underlying injuries. Also I would rest Underhill, who would be my number 1 choice at 7, but we know what he brings and maybe a break would do him good and leave space for others to develop. Injuries will play as big a part as anything in back-row selection - it’s such an abrasive position to play.
We certainly have a great depth in the Back Row.
Purely looking at size, and in this case No 8, I remember the great South African No 8, Tommy Bedford. He was brilliant, World Class. He was regarded as a very small international No 8 but clearly brilliant and very effective.
Martin second row only
Sam Underhill isn’t quick? Remember his chase down tackle in the corner against Wales, or when he turned Beauden Barrett inside out. Come on now. Also are we really valuing out and out speed in a 7 these days?
I'd go with Earl at 6, Earl at 7 and Earl at 8
On 6nations form alone, chessum doesnt even make the training squad, his whip technique of the neck after a player went past is second to none
Where is Tom Curry?
George Martin plays at tighthead lock. Huge upside at scrum time to having him there. Lineout options at 6 so Chessum & Cunningham-South. I think moving Earl to 7 allows us to select a really quite scary & dynamic back row as the 8’s are good options. I’d pick Barbeary with a bit of a plan to hook him off and slot Earl or CCS there as Barbeary is a really big lad and I’d want him to “empty the tank” and get us a foothold in the game from the start. So I’d start:
Chessum Barbeary Earl
Bench: Cunningham-South
I think I’d select Ted hill, Will Evans, Dombrandt and Underhill in the wider squad. A good blend of guys that have been in the Borthwick set up a while now and new talent. Ben Curry & Pearson are good but had zero minutes in the six nations and the likes of Ted Hill & Will Evans are just too good in their positions. Ted Hill needs to train with these guys to develop because I can see a future back row featuring him at 6 and CCS at 8 for a properly dynamic back row. Will Evans is simply the best out and out 7 in the prem. his jackal threat is second to none and that level of skill set can’t be overlooked. Imagine him in training getting over the ball every time the guys are a bit slow to resource a breakdown, great for building that cohesion. Not to mention, if we think disrupting the breakdown is going to be key to opening a path to victory against specific teams you’d be a fool not to pick him.
Whilst I agree with most of this on Evans international is a step up I think he can make it but we really need to see if he can before going to far.
Picking England's backrow at the moment has to be the hardest decision S ,Botherwick and co have to make For myself i would go for T.Hill /B.Curry at 6 - B.Earl /G .Pepper at 7 with C.C.SOUTH/ A.Barberry at 8 and have G Martin and O.Chessum picked for the 2ndrow mainly Either way England have alot of options at the moment all of them good for once
Earl 7, Cunnigham 8 and 6 is Curry if he can return from surgery. Earl is not an 8, he is a world class 7.
I must admit, I don’t really see the hype around Pepper. He reminds me of Ludlow. Works hard and makes tackles, but that’s it… not really a jackal threat.
Curry, Curry, Earl. Go on, do it once
CCS/ Ted hill 6, earl at 7 Barbeary or T Willis at 8- someone needs to bring jack willis back to England so he can play 6 a back row of jack willis earl and barbeary would be crazy with a second row of Itoje 4 and tuima/ Martin at 5 - front row of Baxter, Langdon/ Dan and painter/ Cole would honestly destroy teams I have no doubt that pack would be great plus bleed in Asher Opoku
The Earl “small for 8” argument really frustrates me. If he makes the metres and tackle breaks then why does it matter? He brings something different to a ‘typical eight’ being that he can carry in the tight but also use his pace in the wide channels. Also shown in the 6N how he can link up with the backs. He also offers the defensive work rate of a 7. He’s like if Sam Underhill and Ardie Savea had a weird mutant child. People need to start checking out ESPN rugby player stats after games, he consistently makes double digits in tackles and carries.
How are you not even mentioning Tom Curry??? Our best 7 by a mile
Long term injured ATM
Poor old Ethan Roots.
Tom Curry??
Nursing hip injury
He’s injured.
Hip injury could be a career defining injury too, he had to have a 6 hour surgery on it. Type of injury it would be very hard to get back to your best. Not doubting he's the type of person to make it back though.
I really don’t get RA’s love of Dombrandt, he just never does anything for England
Was good last six nations and almost scored against Ireland too his handling was good too. Watch the games again
Disruptor all the way
Its not really a dilema. The chessum, earl, underhilll was great. Also Jack Willis is not really a blow. He has been good this year but not on fire. If you actually watch the PRo14 he isn't actually that good.
Funny that as he’s looked excellent in all the European games and has had praise from many pundits who are not English, has he just chosen his best performances for Europe?
Mercer, Earl & Jack Willis to start. CCS off the bench. Martin or Chessum as utility second/ back row
Barberry, Curry and Hill all injury prone - won’t last a tour. Chessum and Martin never a 6. Dombrandt and Roots have failed to impress. Underhill past it. Take the rest - time to give the youngsters a go.
Roots got motm on his debut and Dombrandt nearly scored and was a key impact player of the bench against Ireland. They’ve clearly impressed borthwick enough in the past and Dombrandt and CCS both play together at club so having them and Smith makes sense especially if they play a game plan that suits.
6. Chessum
7. Will Evans
8. Ben Earl
Let’s av it NZ.
Whatever happens some really great players will be unlucky and disappointed! Couple of comments - For now I would restrict Chessum and Martin to being second row only options. I am not convinced by Barbeary and you don't even mention Greg Fisalau! Barbeary is great for Bath but was not convincing for England A plus he is over weight and injury prone. On the contrary Fisalau was excellent against Portugal and generally more dynamic. I suspect that there are concerns about Mercers attitude which is holding him back. I don't think he will be included. Likewise I think it is too late for Will Evans especially with the likes of Pearson and Pepper around who probably have higher ceilings Of the new boys my favourite is CCS and I just think he is going to be awesome at 6 or 8. Roots may well be under pressure from Ted Hill if you assume CSS is a given. Tom Willis most probably not....great all round player but with no super power!
Great comments, Fisilau is close, maybe another year development IMO. I think you've summed up Tom Willis, will always give 100% but others 100% might bit a bit more special.
Thanks for the reply. BTW I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the hard work please....always insightful and thought provoking.
@@rugbyanalystcan’t disagree with this on the player himself, although I don’t think you would always have success with a team of pure special talents (not that we have them but pretending we did for a moment) it’s the balance mentality etc, not everyone needs to have huge highlight reels to be considered, look at Dombrant at times for Quins he’s looked world beating and incredible, simply hasn’t been the same player in an England shirt.