Jim Cornette on Eric Bischoff Giving Away RAW Results On Nitro
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- From Episode 151 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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You can listen to Brian each week on the 6:05 Superpodcast at 605pod.com. - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Everyone: Whoa, Mick Foley is going to win the title??? (Changes channel to Raw)
Exactly. This marked the beginning of the end for Nitro’s reign. They had Vince over a barrel and were going to put him out and then shot themselves in both feet, the balls, and the head.
@@MrCamp And this was the same night where "the finger poke of doom" contributed to the end of WCW. Fans got fed up with the backstage politics and they walked off in one night.
Grand Funk Master Chief also true. But Mondays were like Wednesdays now in that a large amount of the audience would just flip shows, more than are watching now. I think WCW jumped the shark but WWF at that time had made a bunch of stars and had some really good storylines at that point to keep people.
@@chwenhoou on a side note, it always made me smile when Hogan was moaning about JJ lying down for him after he himself took part in the finger poke of doom.
As far as the beginning of the end of WCW, I’d say it was Starcade 97’s screwed up finish, fast count that Nick Patrick didn’t count fast, with Bret Hart as guest referee. That was the jumping of the shark.
Foley's lap of honour with the belt was so dang good.
And his one on the Rock. 'It doesn't matter how it makes you feel!'
He earned it, and so much more. If Vince hadn’t been so biased against guys that aren’t cut from stone, Foley could have gone even further
@@biggamerjh1 how do you go futher than winning the big one
@@Josh_J91 his total reign as WWE champion, across 3 times holding the strap, was less than two months long. The man should have held and defended the belt for longer than that.
gay.
In Nitro's early days it was a smart move, you know your competitor's results in advance and can give them away to keep your audience tuned in. By January 1999 WWF had a red hot product, WCW's had begun to dip and Mick Foley winning the title from The Rock wasn't some meaningless filler match.
Timing and tone was the secret, like it is in some many other areas in the entertainment industry! Nitro was red hot from top to bottom and they gave away RAW results and it was killer. Then on down the line Nitro was dead and they gave away the Cactus Jack win and it just didn’t hit the same.
@@60BloodyChamp60 yeah, that's what he just said LMAO
@@B3Band WCW was slipping in 1999. Giving away results worked before, but when it was a question of Cactus Jack beating Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson for the WWF title, it was different.
By that time, Eric forgot why it worked to begin with. It worked Because WWF's matches were getting super predictable, so when the fans heard the results that they already knew would happen, it worked.
What made the Mick Foley title spoiler even worse for WCW was the fact that this was the SAME NIGHT as the Fingerpoke of Doom. They couldn't have destroyed themselves any worse in a single night if they tried.
Bischoff: “I want to let all you fans know, with remote controls in your hands.. over at the World Whining Federation, here's how it goes down.. DQ, Yokozuna in a handicap match.. Jake "The Snake" Roberts.. you're talking about digging up some bones here.. over Isaac Yankem. Diesel over.. Bob Holly.. is still around. OK, now we got that out of the way, you are where the action is and the action is live."
what an asshole lmaoooo i love him
moe faris If you listen to 83 Weeks you can tell Eric Bischoff is still fighting the Monday Night Wars in his head.
It was brilliant, disagree with Corney on this one!
@JASON CUTSHAWyou're a rare breed
"That'll put butts in seats".
I remember just seconds before the "Finger Poke of Doom." Tony Schovine telling viewers that "This is what WCW is all about." Oh you have no idea.
The good thing about living in Canada was Raw aired on Monday night and nitro aired on Tuesday night so we didn't have to choose.
Nitro was aired on Monday night in Canada.....not sure what cable you had,it was on TSN.
@@Scott-jj5on I can't remember for sure. Nitro may have aired on Monday when TSN first started airing it but I am 100% sure it moved to Tuesday before long. Either that or it aired really late on Monday and there was a replay on Tuesday. I distinctly remember watching it on Tuesday. I remember because at one point there was wrestling ever day of the week. Raw Monday, nitro Tuesday, Thunder on Wednesday, Smackdown on Thursday, ECW on Friday, WCW Saturday night on Saturday and either WWF heat or the Sunday night WCW show that I can't remember the name of on Sunday.
@@AWX_Wrestling I had satellite, maybe that's why..... doesn't really matter anyway,I still miss Nitro compared to the junk today, cheers!
@@AWX_Wrestling I remember that as well. Was great!
Hall & Nash sounds like a TV show from the 90s
or a 70/80s music duo
In one hard city two good cops will have their lives turned upside down by drugs, women & the nightlife. Hall & Nash, Fridays at 8 on TNT.
That's what it was........ Kinda
Crosby, Hall & Nash
@@carljohnson4353 Crosby, Hall, Nash and Mae Young.
This is how wrestling fans really operated during the wars:
TNT on the screen, you press the last button and USA comes on.
You change the channels on commercials...both on commercial? Whoever comes back from commercial first is getting watched....unless that segment sucks. Then you change it.
If wwf had Stone cold Steve Austin on and wcw had a match with Alex Wright and glacier or something, I'm watching the wwf segment.
When Eric Bischoff said Mick Foley was going to win the wwf title, I switch just to see if he was actually right. But in all honesty, I'd be watching the wwf title match anyway lol.
Yes
That's how it was for me on Monday nights when I was a kid
I remember the last time I switched from Raw and Nitro had to be around 2000 and saw The Rock on tv on Raw and on WCW saw highlights from Sting and Vampiro in a nail in the coffin match or something and said I'm sticking to Raw
You're a grown man.
Don't say lol.
@@sobbyhasselhoff As a grown man, I do what I want and do not let strangers from the internet tell me how to communicate.
WCW shot itself in the foot so many times Raw didn’t even need to perform well
Turner broadcasting executives shot themselves in the foot. Not anyone in wcw
How?
@@TheeKingRayzor Because the tv executives at Turner couldn't stay in their own lane & leave the wrestling minds like Dusty & Ole alone.
Having Rude on both channels at the same time forced Vince to go live.
They didn't go live every week for at least a year and a half after that. They still had their Iive one night, then tape the next week's show the night after.
@@matthillegas3099 Yes, the Foley thing was taped, which is how WCW could spoil it.
@@SuperDevolution Yep. It went on even longer than that. I don't remember exactly when they went live every week, but it wasn't any earlier than mid 99.
@@matthillegas3099 Could be wrong, but I think Raw stopped being a taped show around the time Smackdown started.
@@MrAdrenaline1982 You are correct. I actually looked it up after I posted that, and it was right after SummerSlam, which was only 9 days before the first Smackdown taping.
Why was McMahon so shocked in how WCW used Hall and Nash when they returned to WCW.? Did Vince really think WCW was going to have them be Vinnie Vegas and The Diamond Studd again.🙄
Probably Oz, if Hogan had his way lol
Alright, to be fair, it might be a little more surprising to see what WCW did with Hall and Nash now with hindsight, when you consider how poorly they did with Bret Hart years later, but also bear in mind that this is a company that thought they were going to make a big star out of Fred Ottman by putting him in a stormtropper mask and calling him Shock Master. It's not that far of a stretch to think Hall and Nash would revert to their shit gimmicks.
Gimmicks were still ruling the day in both WCW & the WWF. WCW actually beat WWF to the punch when it came to injecting realism & stop using cartoon wrestling once the invasion of "The Outsiders" began. Granted, ECW showed them both how it was done for a couple of years and how it could be successful but WCW returned it to the mainstream. Vince never even fathomed that once in WCW Scott Hall and Kevin Nash were gonna be simply, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. In the early days of the Outsiders angle I believe the WWF actually sued WCW for them insinuating that the "invasion" of Hall and Nash was WWF sending wrestlers into WCW to do it and that WCW were misrepresenting the WWF. That led to the Great American Bash promo where Eric Bischoff asked Hall and Nash point blank "Do you work for the WWF?" and they both said no and then the segment ending with Nash powerbombing Bischoff off of the stage. Vince was absolutely shook, I'm sure he'll never say it publicly but he had to be.
WCW wasn't known to do anything that worked. It was Ted Turner's rasslin. And truth be told, as it turns out they didn't have very many good ideas during their peak. The NWO show became stale, as did Goldberg squashing guys.
@@arlopear7136 They also tried to sue Hall for looking and acting like Razor Ramon.
Idc wat anyone says, I rather watch the Attitude era than anything on tv nowadays. WCW was way better than WWF from 1995-1997 and then both shows kept improving. Bischoff has balls.
I'd even say WCW 98 and some of 99 were still good. Still miles ahead of what's on now.
Bischoff has balls. He also only ever had one good idea and he ran it into the ground repeatedly.
Maybe 95-96 but 97' was all WWE for me, especially after WM13 with Bret turning heel and SCSA just on a rise that had no limits. Fantastic TV that we all probably took for granted.
Nwo
i disagree with 1997. 1997 is when WWF stepped up and got it together..Heel Bret hart was fire... Stone Cold was a rising star... Kane come in... First Hell in a Cell..... They got main stream success in 98+.
In 95 &96, I can and will agree with you there!
When trying to one up the competition completely backfires.
A sub division of "when keeping it real goes wrong".
@ShadowAngel I never watched WCW after the finger poke. Same with many fans out there. There is only so much fans can take. Imagine spending hundreds of dollars to watch a PPV event only to be shit on by hogan and Nash.
@ShadowAngel First of all, your numbers are incorrect. The highest selling WCW PPV was bash at the beach. Secondly, Mostly every WCW executive that has ever been interviewed admitted that after they destroyed Goldberg, along with Hogans silly finger poke, led to WCW'S over all destruction.
WCW turned into a joke in the end. The nitro ratings that you mention was a temporary ratings boost before the final fall. Like a bright candle ready to go out.
I am sorry but your precious WCW failed, And they screwed with the Wrong type of people which were the fans. Even at school,everyone I knew was pissed at the finger poke and was probably the last straw.
Even Hogan said that the finger poke and ending Goldberg's run was a fatal mistake that they could not come back from. I have interacted with many WCW fans throughout my life and they all admitted the same thing about the finger poke mistake. You seem to be living in a fantasy world where you resort to ratings reports to make yourself feel better.
Move on my friend. WCW failed and they did it to themselves
@@poorchristopher15 Yeah, & I've NEVER heard EB give a clear & rational answer as to WHY you'd piss off a sold out crowd in Atlanta with that bs to where NOBODY would ever want to buy tickets to WCW's shows ever again there in Atlanta & in other parts of the country.
@@poorchristopher15 The tv people wouldn't stay in their own fucking lane & leave the wrestling minds like Ole & Dusty ALONE.
It was a great strategy until it backfired the night Tony Schiavone spoiled Mick Foley winning the title, followed by WCW doing the Finger Poke of Doom.
"That will put butts in the seats"
What I would have done is avoid spoiling title changes.
Yep, the one time it costed Eric.
My God that Stone Cold pop was deafening.... also that whole damn segment from Stone Cold's middle finger to furious boss to Foley's win and celebration to Michael Cole's commentary was simply perfect second by second.
@Ray Robinson Wow ! Now that's controversial
@@predragnedovic9942 yes better wrestler but that's not what people want
@Ray Robinson But what made "Stunning" Steve Austin so stunning???
@@trashbagcharlie4728 His receding hairline
What is Cornette talking about?
The AE was great.
People stopped watching cause the product got worse and worse over 2 decade.
If WWE was entertaining, there shows would still get good ratings ...
It's my understanding that the Nitro overrun meant that fans switched back to see Hogan poke Nash.
WCW was pure incompetence.
It seems like WWF didn't beat WCW. WCW beat themselves
Are we not men?
I live in India so WCW wasn't on TV to begin with, but i remember watching Raw that week and knowing mick was gonna win the title, the news had somehow spread to countries where WCW wasn't even airing, which is pretty cool when considering that the internet was still at its infancy then
U may not know this,but its a fact.wcw do aired in india but people didn't realised it... When cartoon network used to be shown on limited time slot , after that turner broadcasting channel was shown and it that wcw was shown... Cartoon network was shown from 6am to 5pm and then 6pm.. So after that whatever show they had ,it was turner broadcasting show and wcw was also shown on it.. I remember that as a kid,bcoz as a kid I ignored it bcoz parents didn't allowed us to watch that
WCW aired on TNT which was available in India.
The only time I remember changing to nitro over raw was when Goldberg beat Hogan, that was nuts
@Rondough Howell you know dman well that wasn't gonna happen lol
@Rondough Howell "That doesn't work for me, brother!"
Trump 2020
I was at the show where Foley won. Because we knew it wasn't a live show nobody in the audience thought the title would change hands. We popped so hard when he won. Probably my favorite moment at a live show ever. When Bischoff gave away the results and everyone changed the channel that was just so perfect. What an dumb @ss
Yeah, everyone just went "Oh shit. Gotta see that Thanks fam." Immediately changes channels. 😂
I got to admit it, as much as I don't like Bischoff, the HALL & NASH invasion angle was the best thing I had seen in all my years of watching wrestling.
Say what you want about Bischoff, but he knew what he was doing when he builded his roster, at least at the beginning.
Not really. The NWO got boring after a few years.
@@RandalfElVikingo Went to his head
Without the Monday night wars, we would have had guys on fake ice skates and garbage men gimmicks still. Wrestling was to become what roller derby is; small market niche thing. Attitude Era just actually made it cool for awhile. Then UFC took over.
I remember watching when bischoff did that. Still switched over and watched Mick win the belt.
Bischoff didn't understand that while giving away the results of Raw in the early days of Nitro was something of a benefit for his show, it worked because the WWE product really wasn't worth watching. Fast forward three years later and that tactic isn't as effective because the WWE managed to get their shit together. So when he talks about a title change in a match people are interested in seeing, the natural reaction is to check it out because it's something worth watching. I know people have tried to downplay the numbers and claim the loss of viewers wasn't substantial but the point is WCW shouldn't have lost ANY viewers if their product was hot and the WWE's wasn't.
Funny thing about the Monday Night Wars.. In my country Raw was Tuesday night and Nitro Saturday night. Everyone watched and enjoyed both, until WCW went to shit.
Bischoff laughs about the Foley thing now, and says they laugh about it together whenever they’re at a wrestling convention.
Also, Corney has forgotten more about booking & creative than I’ll ever know, but I don’t get why he insists that Bischoff knows nothing about the business. Bischoff messed up some and he acknowledges that, but he almost put the genius Vinnie Mac out of business. Corney also seems to blame Bischoff more for exposing the business even though Vince had already done it years before.
Fun Trump fact: Donald Trump has been president for nearly as long as Smoky Mountain Wrestling was able to exist.
@RagingCookie127 And much like Smoky Mountain Wrestling, Trump's presidency is about to die.
@@SpinosaurusTheProudSocialist doubt it
@@davidcyr5327 Biden is crushing Trump in almost every swing state.
@@SpinosaurusTheProudSocialist bo jiden
Spinosaurus Aegyptiacus Were those the same polls that had Hillary ahead? I’ll never understand it. Joe Biden is literally EVERYTHING the left hates about Trump except there’s plenty of videos that show Biden’s true colors. “Poor kids deserve everything white kids do”. That’s a quote from your guy. Go ahead, look it up. How about Biden forgetting the Declaration Of Independence? Shushing a woman of color loudly then threatening an auto worker to ‘take it outside’ when he was confronted about his stance on guns? The complaints of inappropriate behavior from women? Petting a little girls face on camera? Claiming he’s gonna cure Cancer if elected? That dude is fucking evil.
I remember switching over to RAW that night 😂
So did I. Right when Tony announced that Mick Foley won the championship, me and my cousins immediately switched to Raw.
I had stopped watching wrestling at that point and my buddy called me and told me: "Marc, turn RAW on now! Foley's winning the title!". I couldn't resist seeing that.
Keep in mind that all the dirt sheets on the web had match results from a taped Raw. So it really was not that much of a shock.
The beginning of the end for WCW
I think the beginning of the end came before that
@@RulerzMinuteMcGee WCW was definitely starting to falter with over pushing the NWO but the day they announced Mick Foley would win the championship definitely was a big tipping point for ratings
The beginning of the end for WCW.
Foley is God
Seems like Cornette has some intelligence. Then he goes on a Trump rant and you realize he and Vince Russo must ride the same bus
Jimmy is bang on - Hes a smart dude for the Wrestling business...
But absolutely cavebrained everywhere else, including politics.
I dont care what damage the attitude era did im happy i got to witness it.
@A Lakonophile
It was the beginning of the end regardless of the attitude era. The internet began to be accessible to everyone around that time and that was always going to highlight the intricacies and bring further exposure on the business.
The attitude era just accelerated something that was inevitable anyway, for the times they were a changing.
@A Lakonophile
Good point
Yeah, I was a kid and didn't know about attitude era and thanks to this,we cant see the great wrestling ever again!!!😒
@@abcsin6526 blame steroid trials for that too because it caused attitude era
@@igorivanov299 sucks for the fans but Vince wins in the end anyway best heel of all time lol
The way Scott an Kevin pulled off the "invasion"...pure fucking genius.
Jim cornette watches CNN while enjoying cheese pizza guarantee it
I love Corny, but hearing him talk about politics is like hearing your cardiologist talk about comic books.
What if your cardiologist loves comic books and knows you happen to like them too?
Triggered Trump smark here.
@@dr.floridamanphd What if he's a great cardiologist, but doesn't know shit about comic books?
Thank you. I listen to this show because I agree with a lot of things cornette says related to wrestling. But the constant digs at President Trump is uncalled for the man is doing a fine job and he cares about this country that's more than I can say for few certain presidents of the past.
Pazuzu Ritter, then why would he be talking about comic books?
That doesn’t make sense.
You can disagree with Cornette’s political views all you want. I certainly do. But just because we have different views doesn’t mean he’s clueless.
THE beginning of the end for wcw was the AOL/Time Warner merger. The new executives hated wrestling even if it was pulling in great numbers and they owned. It blows my mind that they let executives from AOL,which never turned a profit, come in and sell WCW for 3 million. Funny, now the same network pays an outside company(AEW) about a million a week to air a show that draws ratings that are not hAlf as good. They should have sold talent contracts to Wwe for as much as possible and held on to the trademarks and library.
WCW doomed itself when they Ted Turner and Eric Bischoff decided to air Nitro on Monday night. That put Nitro in a do or die situation and they eventually died. If Eric aired Nitro on a different day, WCW would probably still be in business today. So Jim Cornette is right, it's the Monday Night Wars that badly hurt wrestling in the long run.
The late 90s Monday Night War may have ultimately destroyed the business... but man, what a ride it was!
His politics makes him a real life heel.
I was die hard WWF from birth (1980-1994) I moved from NYC to FL & wasn't able to watch like I used to. Different friends/life etc. I fell behind & it wasn't until WCW got hot & everyone in school got into the wars that I was able to watch again.
Me being a wrestling lifer I was easily able to catch up & adapt. I started back around 1998/99 when the NWO Wolfpac was hot. We never watched WWF then. We were pure WCW at least in my group. So I missed DX & Stone Cold live.
We took the war seriously & hated Vince. We lived in Panama City FL & it was PERSONAL when Vince bought us out IN OUR HOMETOWN.
After that I stayed hardcore into wrestling during the invasion angle & my friends & I began recording on VCR every episode of RAW, Smackdown, Velocity, & Heat. Then we would analyze them for trends & predictions. Around 2003 I met some Indy wrestlers who also smartened me up to the business & they came over with their own tapes to my house & we would call matches together.
Basically my apartment became wrestling central. If we weren't watching it live, we were watching it on playback, or we were playing PS2 Smackdown: Just Bring It! Then we would wrestle in the house, on the couch, in the yard etc. Shit was serious. I worked with the Indy guys so we talked wrestling all day. It became my life. An obsession.
It was also in 2003 I noticed the product drop. Cena, Lesnar, Angle, & Orton were true stars but the overall product got lazy, predictable, & the Ruthl Aggression Era was stupid & bad for business.
By the time Hogan was in TNA I was done watching completely except for TH-cam clips, the occasional PPV, & WrestleMania.
Then AEW came out & I resisted it for over a year but when Bryan Danielson went there I gave it a try & was hooked. Now AEW has given me new life to the business & although my old wrestling friends are dead (RIP Justin), & my Indy buddies never made it sadly (Cameron Frost - check out his matches), I'm really seeing a good trend.
Women's wrestling is right where men's wrestling was in the 1980s. Mainly because it's in it's first major boom period & also because everyone looks so bold, colorful, & unique, but also because WWE has given many of the old gimmicks to women. See: Flair, Piper, & "The Man."
Men's wrestling is figuring out which style it wants to be: Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels, & I think when it's all said & done they will find a way to realistically blend both in order to save the sport. You can take a backflipping superkick & stay down for a finisher without needing to bury everyone on the roster + the ref with silliness. Once they let people go off script & develop some promo skills again & cut down on the gimmick matches (Texas Death match every week, etc) we will have a great product again, & AEW has 30 dudes under 30 ready to go. WWE's roster has no stars & is pushing 40-50 years of age. The clock is ticking & their fans are going to have to wake up to the fact that they aren't getting any better stories than anyone else & the match quality has been down for 20 years.
My prediction is Vince will die & sell OUTSIDE of the family. It's been proven he doesn't trust his kids & won't let HHH run it. Once that happens it's over for WWE. The new owners will break that company up for all the property rights they have & sell it off piece by piece.
AEW is already positioned worldwide in AAA, NJPW, & India. WWE has screwed over the UK, & eventually the Saudi Arabia deal will backfire (See PGA TOUR NEWS) & AEW will have created a worldwide territory war in which they have the upper hand.
My prediction is that by 2030 AEW will be beating the WWE & it's VERY POSSIBLE that Tony Khan may even own WWE by then. He has the money to buy it & no one can stop him once Vince is dead.
Remember I said this. Tony Khan will one day own WWE. Wrestling is a crazy world & ANYTHING can happen & usually does.
and our daily reminder that Trump lives rent free in Jim’s head.
What kind of bull shit comment is this?
So disliking a president is now them living rent free in someone’s head? Or you don’t like their personality/politics/policies.. like people did with Obama..
Jim talking about Trump lives rent free in your head
Benjamin Bremer How many times has Cornette talked about Trump? I guarantee at least once an episode he brings up Trump.
John Bully Layfield nah, just been noticing how he goes out of his way.
The night Foley won was an absolute perfect moment where real life and professional wrestling converged in one amazing point in time and it will never be recreated.
ok but Corny, if you didn't like Trump as president you can't be happy with Biden....same policies less tweets I mean wtf
@@DarknessFlameMedia you are unaware basically over 50% of Biden's policies are (generally worse) versions of what Trump was doing. for a bit he tries to go against it and then winds up reviving it in a worse form, and the media claims it is 'no longer racist' !
WCW>WWE
" Well Kevin Dunn was hot " ........ So .. lol
Jim was doing good, then he couldn't help himself Mentioning his Obsession, Lord and Master, TRUMP!😅
After all the SHOCK and Surprises of the AE, it's definitely tough to be Original and SHOCKING today, especially w/ the Over Exposure of Social Media. People have seen it all. You also have the lack of Larger than Life Characters.
DJT lives rent free in Cornys head.
I love the idea that as completely evil as Cornette thinks trump is, he feels about the same about him as he does Bischoff for exposing the business. Lol.
@@alexs7670 i think Cornette blames Vince McMahon mostly for exposing the business and making it "Cartoonish".
Idiot
@@jbfarley 😴
Old man yelling at cloud. Tired of Jim talking about how they did things in his day. Times change. Back in his day, the days he longs for, fans believed wrestling was real and actually tried to attack and harm wrestlers. With today's lunatic culture, a wrestler would get murdered.
Bland by name....
In Jim's day, shows were shown on a weekly basis in the same arenas and regularly sold out.
These days (before COVID-19 forced an end to live arena shows) you had less fans in house shows than Trump had in Tulsa
@@doctorrobotnik4209 - Wow, an attack on my last name, how original.
Thanks for showing that you know I'm right and it made you mad!
I remember when he gave out the information on mankind's match.....I remember thinking to myself, "this is the beginning of the end for WCW."
I doubt that
Ya I'm sure you did....
Funny thing is, people jumped over to WWF to see the Foley win but long-term, Foley's run was transitional to get to Austin/Rock again at WM15 while the "Fingerpoke of Doom" was the start of a storyline where the heels fucked over the babyface and would lead to Goldberg running through everyone to get the belt back.
Perrsonally speaking, I was 15 when that happened and I didn't see the big deal about Foley's title win because WWF had already booked him badly to the point I stopped caring about him and WCW had the more interesting shows anyway back then.
1. It most certainly isn’t “exposing the business”
2. Vince fired the first major shots: suing over Lex Luger, Scott Hall’s toothpick, and running skits making Hogan and Savage look 80 years old. Vince is ruthless, he isn’t some babe in the woods.
3. I don’t agree that it irreparably hurt the business. Competition made both organizations better than ever before. Poor writing, Cena/Reigns, going back to PG, Michael Cole, too many high spots, oversaturation of PPVs, woke simping, fear of wading into politics and cable cord cutting made the product what it is today: nearly unwatchable.
I miss 1996-1999 wcw monday nitro. Some of the best wrestling t.v ever. The only other era I remember that is equal to was mid and late 80s Saturday nights main event, 1983-1987 nwa world championship wrestling, and 1997-2000 wwe raw.
Bullshit, it was fucken hilarious and Vince deserved much worse. I wish and hope AEW starts fucking with him.
And AFW is celebrating him by having him on their program... shocking.
And Vince is going to wait AEW out just like TNA, WCW, GFW, UWF, ECW, ROH , he's seen wrestling companies come and go... and WWE is still here..
@@bobwatson1162 IMPACT! is STILL around. So is ROH. AEW isn't going ANYWHERE ANY time soon.
@@aggressiveattitudeera887 that's good for their 10 fans
I remember when The Ultimate Warrior went to WCW. I was like finally payback time. Because I knew Ultimate Warrior would do something that made them regret hiring him. August 17, 1998 he debut and the first promo Eric Jackoff was already mad because he went overtime by alot. You can see Eric and Hogan constantly looking at their watches but The Ultimate Warrior didn't get a clue.
That fucking denim trench coat he rolled out in said it all.
Lmfao Jimmy stop it, if it wasn’t for the Monday night wars, wrestling probably wouldn’t even exist right now
Trump lives rent free in your head JIM its sad. LETS GO BRANDON LMAO
Most fans watched both shows back and forth not sure any fans just watched 1 the entire show
1:34 hes talking about macho man back in the days before he became macho man
It's pointless listening to Cornette on anything Monday Night Wars related. Way too bitter to have a rational perspective as that was a traumatic time for him, having to watch his perceived rivals taking the industry to new heights in both companies while he was pushed aside, leaving him to run with his delusions to the already out of touch dirtsheet marks.
Nothing ever matched the MNW before and after because it was a once in a lifetime combination of all the greatest talent in history working full time with both fully motivated companies going all out creatively on a weekly basis. What Jim don't get, like pretty much anything on that era, is that business was stronger even in the post WCW decline of business, than it was prior to it. It was strong even a decade after it until they started pushing indy rasslers who would never get a tryout in previous eras, and lost any ability or willingness to put on a creative product with decent storytelling.
The Bischoff/Tony Mick Foley comment is inaccurate btw, that's a mostly made up story of WWE propaganda. Nobody switched channels the moment Tony spoiled the match. Check the full ratings breakdown of that night.
Great point the monday night wars push the industry to incredible heights. I also enjoy watching your videos on the mnw
@@jjbjjb273 Thanks
@MemphoWrasslin1 Even if things did decline, it was because of different reasons than what Cornette suggested for it. He never adapted to the multiple cable TV hours and monthly PPVs business model. He's living in a make believe world where you shoot an angle, add a few interviews and pay it off in 3 months. That's not how it works, demands for more creative storytelling and monthly attractions changed it over 25 years ago. The MNW was a time both shows were treated like a weekly event, Cornette wants shows to be mostly filler so the one eventful show he produces in two months would look good. Standards changed.
Percentages is misleading because WCW/WWF programs were national shows, if you break it down to markets, which was possible during the SD UPN days, SD was often drawing 15+ rating in major markets with far more viewers. I agree that wrestling always had high ratings (different league to the last decade) but in different models, either local programs or special events like SNME. In the weekly national television world, the MNW was never approached before and after.
I agree on the writing and lack of star power. That's what drives every success or failure.
@MemphoWrasslin1 Cornette's take would have made sense if business wasn't strong even 10 years after that point, with the all out TV format changing years prior to that. Even the smaller audience of today are all basically leftovers of viewers created in the MNW era looking at the age demos. The vast majority of the most memorable programs and moments for both companies' history happened during that time so I don't see it running together. Attention spans got shorter with time and more options, a fast eventful product would work today just as it worked then, the talent isnt there to drive it tho. Cornette's suggestion is like Jerry Seinfeld deliberately writing 10 filler nothing happening shows so episode 11 can look good. That doesn't work for decades.
Percentages are misleading because the cable TV universe had a massive expansion in the 90s. That's why you go by viewership, there were standalone events doing huge numbers, but on a weekly basis nothing approached the MNW era, with B and C shows doing numbers that A shows would never reach again.
Jim acting like if their wasn’t Monday night wars then magically the internet wouldn’t expose every single thing about the business
Especially when people were already doing it with the early internet.
Right? That entire audience was already watching ECW.
"How most people feel about Trump." Lol! No. Stick to wrestling Jim.
@MemphoWrasslin1 Haha. Honestly, when he talks politics he sounds like he's reading off a CNN teleprompter.
@Shadow Zone Definitely. It's going to be ugly.
i mean in his 1 and only term he lost the popular vote twice so seems like jim was correct in what the majority actually think
@@ayrts01 I have some beachfront property in Iowa I need to sell you.
@@markthehammer3448 no thanks m8 I'm good you are the idiotic trump cult member who believes every little lie that comes out of his mouth so dunno why you think I'm daft enough to fall for any scams...actually speaking of scams I guarentee you gave the con man money lmao and also Explain how anything that what I said was wrong I'm curious on what your answer is
I hear what Jim is saying. But at the same time, the business was absolutely in the shitter in the few years before the Monday Night Wars. What were both company's shows like in 1993-1994 for example? It was largely shit, and people weren't showing up or tuning in to watch it.
There wouldn't have been a resurgence without the Monday Night Wars. So while it hurt the business in a lot of ways, there may not have been much of a business by the turn of the century without it.
Don’t need your political views Jim
They burned us out with their high school crap lol
This should just be called the official Trump channel and has the Trump drive through for as much as they dude lives rent free in your head.
He was making a comparison, little guy. Are you that upset at hearing the slightest bit of criticism about a man who genuinely deserves it?? Grow up and stop getting upset over such petty things. 😂
Here in UK Nitro was 2 weeks behind and Raw was 3 days behind. Both were shown on Friday with Nitro at 7.00pm and Raw at 10.00pm
Miss that great economy yet tds corney?
Foley winning the title was one of the greatest moments in wrestling history!
Miss Trump yet, Jimbo?
Honestly in my opinion Dave Meltzer has been exposing the business since he began the observer. I dont understand how he gets his info our why someone would give it to him.
oh it's very simple. You take venal, thin-skinned wrestlers, desperate to get over and you give them an avenue to anonymously bury their colleagues (aka competition) and they'll do all the work for you. if a guy ain't in the business anymore, he can't stop you getting over. At least that's the theory.
@@maxdecphoenix which may be one if the reasons why the business is the way it is now, the marks are truly in the ring smh.
When Bischoff gave the results away, it never made me want to solely stick with watching Nitro for the night. Even though that was the intention, I never understood how that worked for some people or at least even believe so.
Regardless of what Bischoff would mention, I would always flip between the channels. Mainly sticking with WWF anyway.
That would work for me simply because I don't like to be spoiled. That's why if I tape game or show, I stay away from anyone who could talk about it and would ruin the surprise for me. Then I wouldn't be as interested in watching it because I know what's going to happen and it annoys me because it takes the mystique/fun out of it for me. Just my personal opinion though, everyone is different
@@1andonlykingp That's fair.
If you go segment-by-segment and compare, it never worked the way WCW acted like it did.
The question is who told Eric the results of the raw show’s
I remember Bischoff doing this. It made me think he was a douche bag. I watched both Raw and Nitro and this didn't help Nitro at all.
The world has changed. The downfall of wrestling's popularity has nothing to do with the Monday night wars. Let's be real. Cornette just resents the attitude era because of his jealousy and bitterness toward Vince Russo. Just like his inability to resist bashing Trump, as if he has anything to do with the wrestling topic being discussed. It has become nauseating imo.
Wrestling was in the shitter before the Monday Night Wars, just look at ratings, house show attendance and PPV buyrates in 1995. This guy thinks that 1970's rasslin would save the business lmao, it would only serve to kill it even faster
Cornys vision of the Attitude Era gave us the Kane debut, Russo's gave us Beaver Cleavage and Marilyn MansonDust. If Corny is out of touch with modern wrestling then good.
@@doctorrobotnik4209 After Cornette left WWF increased in PPV buyrates, TV ratings and house show attendance and with that, of course, an increase in the profits. Guess who was the head writer? Yeah, Vince Russo because Cornette's shitty ideas weren't around to stunk up the joint and make them lose time anymore
I'm not a Russo fan either. Just saying that era overall was great and Cornette has an obsession with Russo. He did some awful things but also did a lot of good things in his time as head writer, though. Really, my favorite part of the attitude era was 2000(after Russo was gone).
@@pmfg11 I am aware of that. I'm sure it had nothing to with the crossover pop culture phenomenon that was Steve Austin. What sticks out from 97-00 WWF is the personalities more than the storylines. If you feel different then so be it.
Cornette, why can’t you leave your left wing politics out of a wrestling show? Blow Biden and the Dem’s on your own time. Didn’t you learn from them throwing you under the bus and getting you fired the last time?
we'll always have that 95-97 period when Nitro was better than Raw by a mile...even the beginning of 98...once the Austin/McMahon feud started up is really when WWF started gaining the upper hand it just so happened that WCW started running out of steam around the same time creatively...they kept NWO going for too long with no real end game in sight which made them more annoying than anything...changing Nitro from 2 to 3 hours...starting up Thunder without the necessary means to grow it into a powerful show that could stand on its own...then they canned Bischoff, brought in Russo, and things went from bad to worse...I remember being a loyal WCW fan as a kid and just didn't care much for the other product...eventually around 99-00 though WCW got so bad and WWF was getting so hot that you couldn't resist checking the other product out. I still watched Nitro till the very last episode but yeah it's crazy how the tables shifted
Biiiiggggg stretch with the Trump comparison lol
Not for a libtard.
I was a dedicated WCW guy.... Seen it going down but was pretty much done with WWE when I got over the cartoon fase of life. Then Stone Cold came along and I liked him and Chyna but still stayed with WCW till the bitter end.
Someone please tell Jim to stick to wrestling. He obviously doesn’t know shot about politics.
Even at 10 years old when bishoff let everyone know that Mick Foley was going to win the title on Raw, even at 10 I was like well that was fucked up of him. That night I changed the channel to WWF and became a fan of wwf for the first time. My buddy that introduced wrestling to me and he was a WCW fan so that's what I had started watching and I loved the nWo but that night I said let me give WWF a shot
Bischoff king of the Instant pop and long fizzle
Well if you don't believe in Karma, that's one of the reasons for the ultimate demise of WCW.
Because Vince has never done anything morally wrong in business has he?
@@lonewanderer82 Vince didn't use any cheap tactics during the Monday Night Wars, not that I am aware of (unless the conspiracy theory about Turner Network selling the company to Vince for less money than Bischoff is true). He isn't morally correct always. He killed the American Wrestling scene and then his son in law killed the British Wrestling scene. But during the Monday Night Wars, Vince was just trying to have the better show than Nitro.
@@hironationrockz the Billionaire Ted skits stand out for me as an example. And it may be viewed as just silly sketches no harm done. But as it progressed, he accused Turner of trying to monopolise the cable industry. I don't know, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can respond to whether there was any proof in this. But he tried to set up a petition to send to the government to block Turner.
If you want to just talk Monday Night War, then yeah, Bischoff was probably the more diabolical. But Vince isnt exactly a white knight either as regards his business practices. As you say, he stomped on the AWA, not to mention every other territory. I agree that the days of the territories were numbered, but he was a snake in how he went about building his empire.
Of course Vince was being childish when he made fun of billionaire Ted
Attitude era did long term damage to wrestling
1 thing people really forget is this. We all point to bischoff telling everyone that foley was going to win the title and the finger poke of doom as 2 of the absolute worst things that happened and handed wwf the Monday night wars. But we all forget that it all happened on 1 night.
So wcw effectively told their fanbase a guy they wanted to see win a title was gonna win, and the reward for not going and watching that is the finger point of doom. That’s probably why both were as damaging as they were. It was an earthquake and a huge aftershock in one night.
ULTRA MAGA 👌🏻💪🏻🇺🇲
🤔 So technically Eric Bischoff is the reason why WWE won the war?
Yes
He wasted money on hog wild to ride his motorcycle.
Vince totally should have used their own invasion angle against them...
😉😉
What a great assessment. The only reason I cared about Hall & Nash invading was cause I thought they were still Razor & Diesel. The internet wasn’t what it is now so we didn’t know they were WcW employees. Nowadays we’d know they already signed a contract months ahead of time.
iguess i was the ONLY person on earth that heard MickFoley was gonna win & said to myself "Thats Fkn Lame! Leavin it on WCW!"
I started watching wrestling in the early 80's. I think saw the wwf morning show first. then it was either NWA on TBS Saturday evenings or WCCW Saturday mornings.
I never became a mark or a fanatic (IMO), but even today that Monday night war led to Monday nights being crazy with anticipation. once both shows were live I would
with remote in hand switching back and forth (pre TIVO for us.) hoping I wouldn't miss anything. at least for me there hasn't been anything close to that to look forward
to on TV anymore.
Trump 2024 jim
He’ll be in prison by that point. 😂
Us normal people love trump as president Jim. I mean, look at the alternative .Please stick to "wrasslin" , Your politics suck !
Cornettes weirdest take. Kayfabe dying was inevitable with rhe popularity of rhe internet
It wasn’t just giving away mick foley winning the wwf title. It was the way they mocked it. Guy who was much loved in the business. Many fans remembered him as cactus in wcw and knew they could have had that guy. Then the fart that was finger poke of doom.
Laughing at the fans. Blowing off nWo split storyline. That was going on for better part of the 98. With such an insulting way. You wonder why this was first mail in the coffin. Yeah wcw PPV beat Austin vs Vince cage match PPV but that was one of the only wins they had in next two years. Never draw 5.0 head to head against raw. Only time they do is later in 99 when raw not on due to us open or something.
Jim cornballs keep talking trash about president trump...Hey How is smoky mountain wrestling doing?? number 1 promotion still...lol
As much as I love Him Cornette and get a kick out of his rants I don't think he gives Hogan enough credit AT ALL. ..yes Hogans a POS with a fragile ass ego but the dude was a game changer....him hooking up with Hall and Nash was MASSIVE...but because hes not a good ol southern rassler Jim won't give him his due
I stopped watching Nitro when they would add everybody and their neighbor to the NWO. The top 3 didn't have to represent and they would push main events with mid card members like Stevie Ray or Scott Norton. Hard to get excited with the lesser names being that last match with 10 minutes left in the program. Also they would constantly put the last main event match on with no time left in the show.
I watched wcw mostly until 1998 then switched to wwe. Nwo and Goldberg helped keep the wcw alive for awhile but the better product won out in the end.