cruisers are screwed, u get set up on a flank with a sub, a dd and bb, u are supposed to push up o help spot and support dd. DD goes in smoke, sub goes underwater BB is too far away to do much (sometimes wont fire to keep themselves from being spotted) and guess what happens to cruiser? spotted by enemy DD no other friendly ships in sight for them to shoot at and your cruiser is focused down in first 3 min of game by everybody including pings from subs and if you are really unlucky cv planes also. That is exactly why cruisers are not moving up anymore at the start of matches especially if they are on a sub side. Last point, ships in mid will always go to the flank without the sub so they don't have to deal with them and we know what side the sub is on because it always lines up on the friendly sub side, so now players lose any support from mid which makes pushing that flank at that point nothing more than cannon fodder for the enemy team. Cruiser players are done with that and I can't even blame them anymore at this point. They need to go back to random sub placement so the teams don't have the incentive to run from a flank because they know a sub is there. Whats that old saying? Don't hate the player, hate the game.
As a fairly new player currently playing around tiers 5 to 7, I found that firstly the DD's were getting swatted like mosquitos early in the game at lower tiers. Now I am at a level where they are joined by cruisers getting wiped out in the first few minutes. So you either fork out cash to win by buying something with all the bells and whistles - or you hang back until someone else makes a move first, then it is a stampede to score some points before being picked off by the sharks hanging back well beyond range of anything you could toss in their direction. I am not sure at what level it is supposed to become a team game.
@@tizme6105 cruisers tier 4-7 common experience that you're a floating citadel with little to no things going for you. So it's either you go remember all the peculiarities of one's armor scheme, find angles that you would likely to exploit, then know how to dodge reactively and preventively incoming bb shells. Then you'll have to know basic map awareness and positioning, not getting into cross-fires while playing on optimal range with ship's effective range and with this in mind you'll start to bring smth to the table as a cruiser player (ofc it's a lot to ask for a newbies that go get devstriked on the first gamerturn of the match). DDs queuing next game in 2 minutes is either an unlucky miscalculation or a skill issue. "team game" is smth barely happen in ranked, let alone random battles
Totally agree! As a cruiser main, I often experience this, the team pressures you to push and be more “useful”. However, the entire team states on the 9 line!! CVS don’t really help either, even a full AA build Worcester struggles nowadays
Another great reason for WG to bring back asymmetrical battles and make it a permanent mode. Bots don't camp, Bots don't cry, it's actually fun to play.
there is a reason a lot of us dont randoms. boring until the last 5 minutes - i want to battle not wait until near the end of time, like its a job someone has to do and i got the short straw.
Wows there are actually people who enjoy shooting gallery game mode. Most people just bring Schliffen or GK in that game mode so the A.I aim and shoot for you so you just turn off your brain pressing W and fall asleep, it get boring after like 3 games because it's repetitive af.
@@Saw7th I’d like to see modes with 4 teams, as well as a longer play mode with respawns. Respawns would minimize the detrimental effect of bad players.
This vid sums up my biggest issue in the game atm. I'm a Hindenburg main. Y'know, the ship we used to call "Battlecruiser Hindenburg." It's pretty muchbeen reduced to a bigger, clumsier, less stealthy Minotaur. My OG playbook pretty much involved me sailing up until my detection radius covered the opposite end of the nearest cap, turn stern in, and provide close fire support for my DD. And then gradually kite away until I found an opportunity to duck behind an island and ambush the nearest pushing enemy ship. At close range the turtleback and 30mm plating allowed me to brawl BBs, and the torps and strong AP allowed me to knife-fight most cruisers [with the notable exception of Des Moines, which I had to give a respectable distance so that I could get my higher shell velocity to level the playing field]. It was a very fun and dynamic playstyle [I still have some vids on my TH-cam channel from those days] that rewarded bold, strategic play. But I can't do that anymore. Any time I get spotted I lose half my HP in unmitigable BB AP pen damage because there is no way to effectively angle against that 430+mm incoming fire. And because there are now much faster aircraft and also unpredictable subs that can close in and spot me freely with total impunity, I quite simply cannot play at anything closer than 17-18km away from the nearest enemy ship until the final 5 minutes of the battle when almost everything is dead and my push is no longer effective. I miss the old days.
Powercreep has another strange effect - after release the game had all the most known navies and ships (Bismarck, Yamato etc) to attract players. As the years go by, this means that newer lines and ships are less known, but more powerful. And then you find yourself in a situation where an imaginary PanAmerican battleships outperform British or French or German battleships of the same tier.
The same problem over at World of Tanks. The much feared and hyped up real world tanks like Tiger and Tiger 2 are just pussy cats with small bites, thanks to their puny powercrept gun calibers of 88mm and 105mm.
exactly, I started playing because I wanted to have some historic ships. My best ships are generally things that were never built. I also chuckle at the idea that Russian ships have the best radar when they historically had garbage electronics and the British have almost no radar and they invented it.
@@Telefiend Literally! WG consumable logic and ship balancing makes absolutely no sense. The British ships with no radar is the funniest because, as you said, they literally invented it
@@samwch16992 How many of the paper tanks never got past prototype stage because design or tech flaws made the whole tank unworkable. But at WG, we'll assume they worked and here is a new OP premium tank for you to buy. Especially if it is a Russian tank!
Instead of adding new classes I would like to see a sail era 15-19th century ship game mode. But hey I'm a weirdo, and might be the only person wanting this.
Nope. You're not the only one. I've thought of this for years. I was thinking a naval game that starts in the ancient era with biremes, triremes, then viking long boats, carracks, 15th century sailing ships, ironclads, WW1, post WW1, WW2, post WW2 and then modern. All within their own respective tiers and modes. Done well it would blow this game out of the water.
Anyone who has tried this has spectacularly failed with ships doing 16 knots, manoeuvring on a sixpence and just looking like a modern ship with sails - yuk. Agree the idea sounds exciting but in reality not.
@Peters2centsWorth Preferably Deep Water Studios who made the fantastic U-boat game would make a sail era pirate hunting game with the same management mechanics, time dilation and world map overview as U-boat that's really what I want. But you can't always get what you want, but I heard if you try sometimes you get what you need. Thanks for the reply friend. Have a good Christmas/Festivas.
Play low tier games if you want to have OG fun, like this game used to be. All of SLM's comments hereare why top-tier games aren't fun -- BUT this is why I've been playing a lot of low tier games recently -- tier 5-6. It's more fun. In those tiers the game still "feels" like it used to, and still is mainly.a gunnery game. Subs at that level aren't very strong. CVs are annoying but can be dealt with. The game still is about strategy and angling and shooting accurately.
This is part of the reason why I only play in Co-Op and Operation battles now, I haven't played in random battles for a long time, plus, I find it really stressful and not fun playing in random battles anymore
I would love to say ops are a good refuge. But dumb players show up there. I've lost count on the number of times you get 1-2 players that throw their ship away in the first 4-5 minutes. And now you are stuck at a huge disadvantage for the rest of the match.
@@irishwind1971 Most OP players have no idea what they are doing. Id say about 50% are just plain useless. 30% are competent to a degree and 15% are good players and only 5% are pro level.
@@irishwind1971 I'm new to gaming and I have to admit I am one of those players that has done that. The response in chat was indicative of high levels of frustration and I was frustrated and embarrassed as well. I apologized in the chat. Everybody is a newb at one point but it should not impact other players gaming. Getting a toxic response from other players just makes me want to do Co-op and camp and that breeds toxicity. I have less than 800 battles and I think you should have a minimum of 1000 to be able to join ops battles.
@diomedes7971I did that and ranked players are sooo rude way worse than randoms they all want to win blame you for any little thing no thanks I stopped ranked years ago
The sniper game started long before the subs came out, and there was Brawls long after the CV release... It was the sniper ships and the meta change that started the sniper game. whats the point in moving your ship when you can just sit there like a massive railgun 26km away and up to 32 km and cit. That is what killed the fun
@diomedes7971 Cruisers? You mean battleships. I have seen more battleships camping islands or rocks than cruisers. And if you try to call them out, they say it's "safe gameplay".
@@YogSothoth620no RU BBs r not supposed to camp cause they have the armour to tank they r supposed to draw enemy fire from their team mates to themselves..this is moronic to think that RU BBs are supposed to hide behind islands with the amount of armour they have...french BBs have high range and they r flankers and even they though can but r most effective in being mobile and trying to outflank enemy ships
BB and CV Main. As a BB I hate little ships that camp behind islands and rain down HE on me. I have no shot at them. Takes minutes to backup or turn my BB around and 30% of my BB lost to get out of their range. As a CV I love island campers and hunt for them. I spot campers and drive them out into the open with torps for friendly BBs to delete. So, if you see a red cruiser scrambling out from behind a island like a cockroach in bright light, Thank you friendly neighborhood CV captain.
As a CV player, i find that most of the time, when a flank falls its usually because the enemy team out gimmicked my team on that flank. I had games where the Flank fell quick even with my help, but the players tend to blame the op classes, so of course id get the blame despite not being able to really help that effectively, or in some cases, not being able to do anything.
For real! When I play CV one of the DD flanks always complains about no spotting like its the CVs fault they got out played. Drop fighters, enemy pushes, planes get shot down, team complains about no spotting, team gets rolled. Its a fun gameplay loop lol
@@JackMerker I think fighters are also rather weak, both the carrier launched ones and the floatplanes. They should really do more than they currently do as right now they're rarely useful beyond spotting. I say remove the spotting but make them far more deadly rather than whatever mess of changes they're currently considering.
Hi there! With over 22k battles under my belt, I’ve seen that success in the game often boils down to the destroyer (DD) class. Battleships (BBs) and cruisers (CAs) only feel safe if there’s a DD within 5 km of them. When the DD is dead, the team often abandons the flank. But why is the DD dying? Misplays like going broadside or smoking in the cap. Failing to check if there’s radar nearby. Not realizing that other DDs can use hydro to push them out. Lack of team support if they’re contesting the cap. Another big issue is +2 matchmaking. This has been an ongoing problem since Closed Beta Testing (CBT). Why should a Tier 8 ship have to face a Tier 10? Wargaming says it’s to "find matches quickly." Nonsense. They have little interest in players staying at Tiers 5-8; they want players at Tier 10, or even Tier 11. Why? Economy. They’ve stripped down so much of the game’s economy that it's hard for the average player to make a good income now. This also leads to overpowered (OP) ship branches being released only to get nerfed later. You get a new line in early access, and the Tier 10 ship is almost guaranteed to be broken. After 2-3 months, the community’s complaints get it nerfed, and then the next line is released in early access.
I definitely agree that destroyers have a lot more sway than other classes, but I think that also creates a poor mentality where people immediatly cave in once their DD is dead, or they can't operate at all if there's no DD on either side. There are ways to push a destroyer out of an area under the right circumstances, especially if they don't actually have support from their team. It's not ideal and can be scary, but defaulting to abandoning the entire flank and fleeing to the other side of the map is a very fast way to lose.
I think it’s just that the offensive capabilities of ships keeps increasing, but the survivability stays about the same, in every case presented in the video I think it all ties back to damage creep. Everything dies in seconds so nobody is going to take any risks and push, why would you when your guns are as good from 19km as they are from 9km?
It’s the reason I slowly have backed out of playing randoms. It’s not fun to constantly lose, and then you start to pay attention to who you’re losing to - ships two tiers higher, game after game after game after game. You know they have data on our skill levels, use those to match us.
Thanks for the video SLM. You mentioned La Pampa: was paired with one in a brawl yesterday. Must have been a CC or tester playing it I guess. I was playing GK. We were against two BBs: GK and Schlieffen. Even against two hydro ships the La Pampa dominated the battle totally! Looks a very strong DD. At one point the enemy GK, on almost full hp, had to push into the caps or they were going to lose on points. Result: one dead GK! I think you're right about the gimmick creep: each new ship has to have something to make it sell. Result: the game gets more and more unstable in terms of the balancing of different ship strengths. This in turn leads to more one sided matches and more passive game play as players try to compensate by offsetting risk.
As somebody who loves to play cruisers I can only second that. Overmatch is a huge problem. My suggestion (I mention that always when this topic comes up) is to tie the overmatch capability on the distance to the target. Make the overmatch decrease over range.
This is exactly why I love T6-T8 games, because they are actually fun and engaging, and not just getting HE spammed for an entire battle, getting hit with 20 torpedoes you have no chance of dodging, or a squadron of 12 AP bombers that kill you before you even get to the action. I have personally enjoyed playing ships like KGV and Bismarck at same tier games that some of the higher tiers.
Crusises have it the worst and i am primarily a cruiser player. Can't hit anything at range so you move up to cover the DDs who get out spotted by the sub, only to get nuked by all the BBs sitting in the back. Try to sit back and wait for the battle to develop and you are over run because the other team doesnt hang back and pushes. Its a knife edge and you either have a great game or it totally blows
One thing I notice is that when CVs and Subs are not in the match people still don't push. Most of the dds like sitting in smoke and can burn down full HP bbs while never being spotted is a big deterrent for me as a cruiser player to push.
I do agree with you, but there is this problem since day 1 that is MM and the random player dynamic of the game/match. You can have all sorts of tactics and ships, but the random-ness of the players playstyle and the MM diff, puts the match on a unknown factor. You have people rushing for a chance to set them on fire, flooding, unfair ship matchup or just a few more hits to reach their mission complete, campaign etc. And this makes everything just holly molly... The PVP perspective of the game have in the recent years, doesnt fit well anymore with all these changes in my opinion. Had there been a PVE mode against super AI raid mode of some sort, then builds and tactics could probably have been implemented to a certain degree to make all ships fit for certain role. PVP random-ness is now just for RNG sweat bonanza OP meta ships... At the end of the day, what da heck do i know? If you ask me i enjoyed the game since beta to a certain extent, but the way the game is progressing, it is just a matter of time, before people just had enough or they already had enough xD The player base atm, most are loyal, but the devs seem to not see that the game hinges on a thin line for most people and the era of information and better games are upon us due to the increase of player revolts xD
yeah, i feel like ops are the funest part of the game now, you know EXACTLY what BS awaits you in every op, and usually have at least one ship that is well suited to that op on the team
My main problem with the game is the spotting. How can another plane or ship provide you you with so much info that it is like you can see the target yourself. That is better than modern ships with satellite, drone, Aegis cruisers and long range radar can do today. It's as if the Captain in the game gets spotting info from friendly units and it's automatically projected on the holographic imager that surrounds the bridge and combat center and appears like you can see all around you. Putting all the spotting info on the mini map is modern, never-mind in WW2 where it would be hand plotted on a map with marker then relayed to the Captain by voice. All ships you don't see yourself should only appear on the mini map, this includes your own radar only spotting. Ships of WW2 needed visual (their own) on the enemy for any accuracy. You can shoot at a target on the mini map but it's iffy at best for a hit. The game today has too much spotting for other ships to use that is way too much, hence the long range stand off type of battles we see.
True. If it was map only + visual targeting people would have to push up to get reliable damage. This is my biggest issue with CVs as well. And the mechanics for this are there: subs at periscope depth cannot see as far as they can on the surface.
You are omitting a fourth reason. The addition of so many radar ships over the years has pushed DD play further back as well. (not to mention super fast torpedoes) It is not unusual to see a random with three radar ships on the opposing team. Not to mention a cv or two and any number of hybrids. Early in the game, it just becomes suicidal for a dd to venture any closer to the caps than the edge of radar range. I don't see subs as much of a problem. I don't like them but they rarely are game impacting. Just annoying.
It's easy to complain about CVs, Subs etc. where people feel they can provide a 'straightforward solution'. While noone really can give an insightful, concise explanation for a solution to Overmatch. Anyone can say, nerf planes, minimap spotting, buff AA. But overmatch is such an ingrained mechanic in WOWS aht I've yet to see any CC/ WOWs official come up with something that would not straight up break the game or send it back 5 years.
@diomedes7971 re: bottom tier specifically- they had announced a maximum “40% bottom tier” at one point. I have never seen them retract this, but my experience at T6 and at T9 is very similar to yours. Way more than 40% down 2 tiers (in the same ship).
This. Planes are annoying mainly because 1. they're so tanky but 2. because they provide full spotting. This is basically a death sentence to every cruiser, because battleships can just send it at 22km, well outside of the cruiser's range, and score cits even through angled armour due to overmatch. It's a combination of factors, but I can say that overmatch and full spotting from planes is a textbook example of horseshit game design.
One of the reasons i quit playing upper tier is the overly passive and camping style of play at T9-T11. Going back to tiers 5-7 is more aggressive style of play and therefore a little more entertaining. Asymmetric Battle is fun for two reasons for me: (1) using red and blue bonuses to build up credits, Cmdr Xp and Free Xp in order to boost up my commander skills; (2) I try the various ships i have to mix it up in (keep it interesting ) which is fun since i have a lot of ships (doing this in Ops Battle mode can help also). With the upper tier its the prolonged cat and mouse in the first half of the game which is boring. I THINK WG MADE A BIG MISTAKE WHEN THEY INCREASED DETECTABILITY RANGES, as this moved ships further back which moves people further back from the cap zones. If WG lowered detectability ranges and also if they got rid of the domination maps (not cap zones A, B, C, and D), so that every battle had cap zones (A, B, C, etc), i think this would move players closer in and increase the engagement. Just an opinion from an 8 year player. Cmdr_WSRamsey o7 SLM.
Subs are essentially DDs that submerge instead of smoke. CVs on the other hand: it is their passive spotting that unleashes the entire red team’s firepower on a ship. This is the primary issue with CVs, and with the firepower at high tier, range or islands are the best shields against this.
I think the bigger part of this issue is the range modification available to every T9+ ship. When every ship can snipe at beyond maximum range you shouldn't be surprised when everyone engages at beyond maximum range. You can't push in because you're in range of every ship on the map. Remove the range mod from the game and I'd be willing to bet that suddenly games will get a lot more close in and action-packed because you can't just borderhump and still fire at most of the map. It would also make a lot of T7 ships far more bearable to play in uptiers as they might actually be able to get in gun range of the T9s smashing them from the 1 line. It's why T5-T8 is notably more consistent fun than T8-T11, because you can't camp the same way every top tier games turns into.
If you get sniped by a range mod Yamato or Montana, that really is your problem. You would have 15+ secs to make minor adjustments to your path to dodge the shells. Only reason you get hit by those extreme snipes are either you arent moving, or you are just sailing in a straight line. Not to mention, most T10 bb's don't even run range mod, they prefer the reload mod.
@@athras8822 Dodging one is easy, I can do that all day. Dodging 7 from multiple corners of the map is a little harder. It's also not as much of an option if you're in a slow chunky battleship. The issue isn't with dodging or not dodging because that is ultimately irrelevent. The issue is with both battleships and cruisers playing passively at maximum range because by pushing forward you're in range of the whole enemy team and get focused to death, regardless of how well you dodge or angle; you will get whittled down. I don't mind there being long-range ships, but when every single high tier ship is or can be a long-range ship it promotes the passive meta that's plagued top-tier for years now. If the range mod isn't being used (which I doubt) then nerf the ranges of most top tier ships. If ranges are reduced ships will be forced to be closer to each other which discourages passive play. That is my point. If you want to argue against that, do so. Dodging is irrelevent.
@@athras8822 And what happens when you get spotted by planes, and youre in a cruiser? Now you're getting shot at by 4 battleships from 4 different angles, in what is effectively a crossfire, and all it takes is 1 lucky shell to hit your citadel (of course, after overmatching your angled armour, because overmatch is a good game mechanic) and you've lost a quarter of your health. Also add the fact that the CV can sit outside of your actual AA damage range and keep you spotted for the entire time, and you can't even outrun it. So you basically have to stay alive to run to the corner of the map and get out of BB range, or you just get blindsided and die. The battleships dont even need to have range mod either, because there's just way too many massive guns with long ranges in the game now.
1:34 I remember with joy how Flamu would post videos of how many planes he could shoot down with a good AA ship back when AA was good. The planes would fall out of the sky like autumn leaves. It was great.
I'm heavily conflicted about the general take here. I'm a good all-rounder in terms of the classes you can play in game, and if there's something I keep seeing left and right, is that the only population that is never hurt by any form of patches are the Battleships. You select Random Battle, click play and the matchmaker will happily tell you there's 2 CVs, 30 BBs, 7 CA/CL, 5 DD, 3 SS in the queue with you. It's also pretty amusing to see people pointing at those smaller classes, but in Brawls or Rankeds all you see is German/Pan-American battleships absolutely everywhere. One of the big issues of passive gameplay that absolutely no one mentions and only now has been started to surface? Every single latest battleship that has been released having 12.3Km secondaries that are absolutely braindead to use, deal 1.4K damage every second (plus fires) and force me to stay behind or get out of range. Let alone every top tier ship nowadays has either hydro, radar, engine boost or a combination of them, plus combat instructions. As a destroyer, why should I go push up or scout, when the moment the 12Km radar spots me, or anything else spots me, I will have four BB automatically make it rain on me with no input from the players? Same for cruisers, made worse with the overmatch already mentioned in the video. The new Pan-American ships are a complete joke that go beyond the ridiculousness that German Battleships already were in terms of secondary effectiveness. The classes that actually *break* the passiveness and encourage playing together are, unironically, the ones people always demonize, DD, CV and SS. They are the ones that can manage to get an angle on island huggers and 1/4 sailers and deal some damage to make them move. I love how people blame me for not spotting when playing either, but at the same time to be efficient for my team, I have to be up close and spotting to release my torpedoes or strike ships. It's also very fun to see the 'cheap DD torped me' situation arise every time, but for those torpedoes to hit, you had to sail straight for a minute, and most of the fist shaking comes in situations where it's 1 DD vs. 1 BB, of course the DD is going to have the advantage there, it's rock, papers, scissors. There are a lot of things that could be tweaked to remove passiveness, overmatch is one of them. But I definitely disagree with having to keep nerfing DD, CV and SS, when the people will just straight report you because you were not doing the things they're blaming you for. The issue lies with the playerbase and their skill, not so much the classes themselves, some balancing aside.
CVs should never provide full spotting except to full-sized battleships. The fact a bunch of planes can keep a cruiser or dd full spotted is a mindnumbing and horseshit mechanic.
This was discussed on the forums quite a lot. It is the spotting mechanics, once you are spotted, all enemies within range can take potshots at you. In high tiers, when ships have bigger guns that hit harder and more accurately, being spotted is not fun at all. Hence, players sit at max range to try to limit the amount of enemy ships shooting them.
01:20 I think another reason contributing is radars (I am NOT saying remove radars btw) I just think with the two other points it just becomes a perfect sauce/pasta to make a game veeeeeeeeeery passive.
In the comments, we have the fairly tired argument of "invisible destroyers"... really? Older torp DDs are still bad, vulnerable to sub or CV spotting, radar, gunboat DDs (with radar) AND torps are actually not easy to land. Gunboat DDs on the other hand have a terrible time because you're naturally spotted if you're trying to gunboat, and their ranges are fairly low (except Kleber, because.. idk, speedjuking and French saturation, go nuts.). DDs suffer greatly from the passive play because they can't creep up to unwary easy targets, and getting spotted means a quick trip to port if the enemy team is close. Your own team can't help, they're staring at rocks for safety and comfort. Passive sniping play sucks for everyone and makes matches boring.
And then there is the issue of your speed juking DD losing its engine repeatedly. But I have seen far too many Shimakazes sailing along behind their back line BBs. Multiple games every session. It is a real problem. And some of these same players are now branching into Halland.
@@xPureNRG007x the devs really screwed subs pretty badly.....espicially CV's why not let their class have their own game mode? both are used strategically in different ways although they could limit it to 1 said class only tone the damages down or increase the ship's survivability whats your thoughts?
@@gamerboi5678 Planes should never provide full spotting, or they need to be much more susceptible to AA. CVs shouldn't be able to permaspot a cruiser or dd with 0 repurcussions, and while those dd and cruisers have no agency to defend themselves. AA is pitifully weak, and it makes cruisers so boring to play if youre against a CV who isnt braindead.
@@m1812Z what about scout planes? what if we add those in the game? honestly AA on a lone ship is ineffective and everybody knows that whether its a cruiser or not and we'll hit into the topic of team play here so i wont say much AA is really bad at hitting things unless you are radar guided or computers...
Great video again SLM. T10 is frequently frustrating due to passivity, a rapid wipe-out or being focussed by the CV or sub. In contrast I often go back to T4 which is fast flowing, fun and has zero gimmicks. It’s a fair fight. The only advantage a player can have is having more captain skills. No ridiculous walls of torps or an absurd rain of shells from large guns firing like machine guns. So the games are all about fire and movement. T6 is also a nice balance but often spoiled by uptiering. Herein lies another problem. I imagine a lot of people play T10 not so much cos they really enjoy it but more to avoid being double uptiered. Who wants to start the game with a handicap and feel like they are there as cannon fodder for someone else ?
I agree. I used to play T9 until Superships came out for this exact reason. Now T7-T8 have been rejuvenated because all the T9 are getting sucked into T11 matches, and T6 sucks because you are in T8 all the time.
As a newer player with fresh eyes. BB's are too accurate at long range. They can comfortably sit at their max range and reliably hit for good damage, which creates a sniper meta at all tiers. If they were more realistic and had trouble landing shots at longer ranges it would force a more midrange meta and make cruisers better as a result.
Look truth be told everything is fking opposite in this game..bs r the tankiest so they r supposed to be at the second line whilst cruisers support them and dds st the first line but in this damn game BBs remain at the very back trying to fking snipe even if they cant
Some BBs are, many others are not. Even in the video you see SLM missing entire salvoes many times. But at high tier, if you are the first spotted you are done in seconds due to the volume of fire inbound.
I'll give you another idea of why top tier matches are so passive. It has more to do with the longer you last the more damage you do the better your XP is so everyone's hanging in the back trying to not be the shiny object
It's a number of these issues, and the "small" maps in the higher tier matches. When a large number of BBs can cover 100% of the map from the G-5 position... that's an issue to me. Add that a majority of the higher tier matches are already decided 5 minutes into them, and pretty much over at 6.5 minutes. This removes the fun factor.
This is why that Leyte Gulf mission (?) where you had to destroy an enemy from within 10km and survive was so annoying. It could only be completed in Random or Ranked, and I am a PvE main. As a consideration to my team mates, I played tier V DDs that could stealth launch torpedoes* and set out to contest caps (earlier attempts with cruisers went badly). Surviving after scoring a kill was a challenge, but the kill was nearly trivial. I don't like PvP play and assume that I do not do it well, so I had to join in in a way that I was certain that I could contribute to the team's success. At tier V, the ranges are such that camping is less of a problem and subs only show up if up-tiered. * You would be surprised by what DDs can stealth launch torpedoes, once you understand that it is the intersection point of the target's path and torpedoes' path that must be in the torpedoes' range, not the target at point of launching. The Okhotnik can have a detection range of 5.8 km and has torpedoes with a range 4.5 km, but, if a fast target is coming towards you, you can stealth launch torpedoes from the Okhotnik.
The higher up the tiers you go, the more the balance between offense and defense shifts toward offense. So find the balance that feels good to you, and play that. My favorite tier is 8, which is where I feel the balance is the best.
The game is NOT balanced. The HE spamming and fires are out of control. How can a DD have better AA than a BB? A DD can eat a full broadside from a BB and survive then smoke up and HE spam 50-70% of your BB HP??? WTF!
The need to lose the whole, "You can't see a ship at this range because we said so" mechanic. I can tell you having been on ships many times, you can most certainly see a ship the size of a DD at a pretty good range.
Unfortunately this game isn’t rooted in reality. Nigh invulnerable (and nonexistent) Soviet ships, ships that can burn others down and pretty much never be spotted…there’s a lot about this game that is far from reality.
The primary issue with WoWs balance beyond CVs has been Battleship main gun accuracy. It has been overtuned since 2016 and has only gotten worse each years with more and more BBs being released with even better accuracy attributes (Sigma and Min/Max Dispersion) at long range. This very specific overpowered attribute for the majority of BBs now at high tier is the root cause for many other perceived balance issues from the lens of playing different ship types. As WG and large swaths of the player base do not understand the intricacies of data analytics, and data-based game balancing - other ship types have also reaped balance passes simply because of perceived end effects that are easily attributed to the overtuning of BB accuracy. Now we also have the prevelance of BB overmatching everything, BBs that are even faster than some DDs, BBs that have concealment close to that or better than some Cruisers... ontop of the overtuned accuracy which further destroys the balance top to bottom. Name any other game out there, multiplayer, competitive... whatever... where you have an archetype that can embody a sniper, tank, brawler, and in some cases, assassin. There isn't one for good reason. You have many top tier BBs in WoWs that embody 3-4 of those. Low risk and High reward equates to Overpowered in any multiplayer game. If Battleships were significantly less accurate and less precise at ranges beyond 18km at tiers 9 through 11 - How would the dynamic of most battles change? Here are just a few examples. 1.) Everyone would have the capability of being more aggressive, including BBs, and skill in that aggression would still be paramount over luck. 2.) Cruisers having more aggressive capabilities would then be more attuned to utilizing their anti-DD platforms, and at the same time there would be absolutely no excuse for Radar and Hydro working without LoS. 3.) More tactics become feasible and more ships can play to their designed strengths. and that would just be the start. Speed and Concealment should be next on the tuning block once a good performance sample size can be gathered after the accuracy changes.
Overmatch is a big problem as you say and the other one I don’t think gets mentioned enough.....DPM power creep is a huge factor too - you can’t push into so much DPM at all, even without overmatch
I think the problem is simpler. Players want to make the game last as long as possible. The clock says 20 minutes in the longest it can be. If everyone just rushed, with the exception of the game lasting 5 to 7 minutes with a "long" game lasting 10 minutes the game would get a lot more active. Somehow all of us players that hate the passive meta need to get on teams and have the entire team push, every game until it is the new meta.
The lack of easy strategy is the problem spotting, combined with the range and the deathstrikes.(And 21point captains) It used to be you died when you made a mistake. Wrong angling as a cruiser, not respecting your detection range as a dd.now there is spotting with no consequenties everywhere. Radar, planes and subs. It has always been the first thing spotted in range dies. We have to go back to where positioning maters and playing well is rewarded. Not a game of hide and seek and once spotted you are out. (21point captains because new players do not have them and they are OP. Coop is not a fun game mode, and grinding tech tree in random means your team loses)
I have heard about 1 and 2, but the 3rd one caught me a little off guard tbh. Though, I still think that's not the reason for why people are playing more passivly, if you want my opinion. There is a old saying in World of warship; First spotted, first to die. The reason for it is quite simple; If you get spotted first, no matter if your DD, CL or BB(or ANY OTHER SHIP); You will get focused fired upon. You will be litten up like a candle and eventually die within the 5-10 min mark. If you a closer then the others, well... your the closes enemy, within their range, thus you are an great threat. The only thing that I can see the value of 3rd point is that most of the armor of the ships is armored for that thing at mind; Distance. Though, armor doesn't do any good when your superstructer is a weakspot, HE is a thing, HE Spam = Fire Spam and since subs and CV can keep you spotted... Well, your toast. Since I played Libertad, I did notice this. Hench why I often hold my fire until I either a) Get spotted or b) I open fire. It has worked really great, since libertad has a 13 km detection range and her sec. reach out to 12.5 km(before you press the "funny button"). Currently, with 62 battles played, I have a win rate of 75.81% in it, due to that simple(yet effective) trick. That and Libertad is OP with nearly everything in her favour(Speed, acceleration, Sec., Numbers of gun, Caliber of gun((419mm)), heal that rivals Ohio and concelment) Though, running from cover to cover seems to be a solid tactic to counter stale play... That is of course, untill CV decided to "arrest your for haveing fun" or Subs doing sub things; Destroying fun and keeping you spotted for everyone and their grandparents to behold.
I honestly hadn't thought about the caliber creep. I was grinding BBs for a while, but now that I'm grinding out the Soviet cruiser line, I've had appalling numbers of citadel hits in games where I'm uptiered. So I guess that is a likely issue. I don't remember the US or German line being that vulnerable when I was working my way through their tech trees.
Neither Subs, CVs or overmatch are the major causes of the passive meta. Here on the EU server: What happens to a BB that pushes early? It gets focussed by every ship that is in range. And in T9-T11 games, pretty much every ship has a lot of range, even DDs. So early push = low survival, because you get foccussed by way more ships than in lower tier games. So as a BB player, the maximum range of secondaries is/was 12.5 km in a T10 and that is way to low. Before you can push into that range you probably lost more than half your HP. It is also not helpful, that WeeGee published a lot of ships that are very strong in burning down other ships and can sit behind islands or in smokes. Push = you get totally obliterated by isle-hugger or smoke-camper and yes, there are also mild annoyances by subs and CVs With the recently pubished Panamerican BBs it is even crazier. Usually I have an averyge potential damage about 1.4-1.5 million in a German T10 BB and these are really really liked targets on the battlefield. The Los Andes is currently at 1.8 million and is still able to survive long enough to be my best performing damage dealer, even better than the Libertad, which is similar in this matter. But both ships have a hard, very hard time to push early. So, if you don't have a ship, that can survive any pushes, you stay back and snipe. THAT is the main reason. In T8 and lower there is no range mod available for ships and the normal range of ships isn't as high. So there is more space on the maps, where ships can operate w/o getting completely destroyed once spotted. Means, games are less passive and people get more fun pushing.
As a mostly BB main player I definitely agree with this, but I believe it is a mixture of things that are causing the issues we currently have. BB players rely on DD or CV to spot for them, but they have their own issues. DD's entire defense is not being spotted or being in smoke. Well, WG has destroyed that with CV spotting constantly as well as many new ships added that have radar. Cruisers are suppose to help defend them, but BB's now have massive range and so much overmatch power against them that with all that spotting they are deleted quickly. So, you have a cascade effect that either your team dies out quickly or, as often happens, an entire team sits in the back of their spawn sniping or behind islands HE spamming until the last 5 - 7 minutes of the match where they all push finally. Saying that, I will say that CV's are at an advantage. No one pushes so they almost always live until the end of the game. 85% of their planes WILL make is through AA defenses to hit you, even if you have 2 other ships right beside you and you are all blasting away at the planes. There simply isn't a good counter to them until late game when most of their team is dead and you can finally hunt them down. Until then, they have free reign to hit and spot you over and over again without having a down side to any of it
I just think that if we are playing higher tier matches every one should have a good understanding of each ships characteristics. I recently started playing more aggressive in all ship types excluding the subs and CV’s and from what I’ve seen I’m either able to defend a flank so it’s not over run… I still end up dead in that scenario, or I just outright bully my flank. From those matches I’ve played I can tell a lot of players in t10 don’t belong.
While it might be true that some gimmicks are on the ridiculous side, most of them don´t prevent me from wanting to get closer. What does keep me from doing that when it happens are 1. Subs, I feel at a major disadvantage when I start to get pinged by one of those damn things. When fighting surface ships, you actively aim at them, whether it be with your main guns or torps. But when dropping ASW charges on subs, you´re almost ¨blind dropping¨ on them, hoping you guessed correctly what direction they are going. So yes, that keeps me from pushing in when I know there´s a sub on my flank. 2. Add to that, that CVs keep you perma-spotted, making is easier for those 460mm + BBs to shoot and delete you from half a map away. The sad thing is that the more we complain about these things, the more that WG keeps pumping out the cancer ships that keep the meta stale and ¨campy.¨ They will never do anything to fix it, because they don´t care what we think or feel as long as it makes them money. Who cares if your video game is fun for the people that play it, right?
I really don't have much of a problem with CV's , a bit with Sub's at the lower Tiers, but the huge caliber BB's have made CL play.... challenging to say the least. I love fighting light Cruiser's but at the higher Tiers it's increasingly lethal. It takes the fun out of the game when you fire a volley and then get erased by a dozen 18"+ shells.
I agree power and gimmick creep is a thing, and some older ships need some buffs. If subs are still an issue for you still, I got nothing. And I do look forward to the great CV re-rework. But even if we nerf CVs, banish subs, and fixed ships, people will still complain and camp. While I like seeing airship escort and encounter back, I wish WG would put their big boy pants on and just dump them and the other brawling modes into randoms.
I would say reduce the ranges on BBs so that they just cannot fking camp so that they r forced to play at mid ranges that would solve most things and plus reduce the time per match for randoms cause this thing occurs the most in randoms
@@MartialEmperor6344 I hope once the CV spotting goes away, those back row snipers get a wake up call. If DDs still die in the first five minutes, and no one can spot for them while they remain perma spotted by enemy DDs, maybe a light will go off. And protecting DDs early will pay off later in the match. Nah. Why should they change? They will go from complaining about being perma spotted by CVs to complaining their isn't enough people spotting for them.
I play on EU, todays evening tier X queue oscilated around: 6 CVs 90 battleships, 12 crusiers 24 destroyers, 4 subs for my 3 hours session, it really shows people don't wanna play crusiers, and i understand them because they really don't have much to go for them, Battleships now have 10-12 sec rudder shift times, 30sec turret traverse, crazy cammo values, mobility and ofc busted armor, while crusiers have... big citadels? Yeah, it's better to play gunboat dd because then you won't be citadeled at least
Definitely agree that T9-10 has gotten really strange. I'd also claim that with so many premiums available that anybody with a credit card can buy, you also get a lot of inexperienced players at the top who just genuinely have no idea what to do other than hide. High tier matches are very unforgiving of even the slightest mistake. There are a lot of little problems that collectively add up to the big issue of these matches. Playing T8, especially later in the evening, is nearly an exercise in masochism, but T5-7 is still quite fun. I find myself playing lower tier more and more often as time goes on. Can't wait for asymmetric battles to return. That, imho, is one of the best game modes they've introduced to date.
Even though Yamato's guns had not really that better ballistics than the super heavy shell fired by the 16-inch guns found on an Iowa Class Battleship.
HE spam and walls of torp skill. Everyone rightly goes on about cv's and subs but reign in the HE gatling gun spam and torp walls of skill. Entire fleets don't have 100's of torps to fire let alone a single dd. Also the smoke mechanic sucks a$$! It might be an arcade game but for $r!sts sake, some physics need to be adhered to.
Even if you eliminate subs and cvs the passive game style will remain and in fact will be worse . Why ?? Because the 80% of player base are cowards and stupid waitting for the other to take risks and spot. Cowards will always be cowards.
Maybe you're right, but in the wrong sense. The players who favour active gameplay have all quit or become passive because there's no benefit to themselves for doing so. The passive players thrive in the current environment so they stay on. At least if things are fixed (however that may happen) active gameplay would become possible at anything other than the highest skill levels. Also, way to ignore the point that overmatching BBs are equally problematic as subs, torp spam DDs, and CVs
I disagree. People still want to shoot things, it’s why they play the game. They just don’t want to get annihilated the instant they fire. With CV’s passive spotting they don’t even have to fire to be spotted, so they get sent back to port without even firing a shot. Subs are not an issue.
As a mostly BB main player I definitely agree with this, but I believe it is a mixture of things that are causing the issues we currently have. BB players rely on DD or CV to spot for them, but they have their own issues. DD's entire defense is not being spotted or being in smoke. Well, WG has destroyed that with CV spotting constantly as well as many new ships added that have radar. Cruisers are suppose to help defend them, but BB's now have massive range and so much overmatch power against them that with all that spotting they are deleted quickly. So, you have a cascade effect that either your team dies out quickly or, as often happens, an entire team sits in the back of their spawn sniping or behind islands HE spamming until the last 5 - 7 minutes of the match where they all push finally. Saying that, I will say that CV's are at an advantage. No one pushes so they almost always live until the end of the game. 85% of their planes WILL make is through AA defenses to hit you, even if you have 2 other ships right beside you and you are all blasting away at the planes. There simply isn't a good counter to them until late game when most of their team is dead and you can finally hunt them down. Until then, they have free reign to hit and spot you over and over again without having a down side to any of it.
Add to that so many Bb players forget their purpose is to offer another option for the enemy to shoot at. Instead they kite away as an attack strategy they let their team take the brunt while they sit at range
I thought a while a go that a CV should be required to be moving at a certain speed to launch and recover aircraft. If a CV was required to be doing 20+ knots all game, It would be a target a lot more. No CV can drop anchor and conduct flight ops.
I'd like to note that 12KM radars are much more of an issue than CV spotting, at least when it comes to DD spotting, most DDs get spotted from air within a distance of roughly 3km (You practically have to be ontop of them), though some notable exceptions like Kleber exists(4.4km with conceal module and Concealment Expert). Usually when you spot a DD with your planes, it is not on purpose but rather coincidence. And you don't usually exit the match with 85% of your planes remaining, certainly not if you are at any point at a disadvantage in terms of which side has more boats alive, the only kind of carriers that could potentially end a match like that would be something like Malta which explicitly has fast plane regen as one of it's niches. People also tend to not actively play in a way that counters CVs, I.e clumping up together to maximize AA, which would happen in a dedicated push, which would also be difficult to handle for a CV under any circumstances. In fact BBs sitting in the back playing this passive sniping meta are infact exposing themselves to CV players by being nice and isolated, and ofc also slow and big(easier to hit).
Overmatch is something a majority of players know nothing about. 2-tier MM and the sheer power found at T10 is reason enough for the passive gameplay, and it is often rewarded with wins as the first team that has the impatient lambs to sacrifice generally loses.
loose over match , and reign in wall of skills and put a reload on them that actually allows counter play rather than just eating wall 2 3 and 4 on the way to the target.
Tiers should play against thier own tier. Not tier 5 gets upti tier 7 etc. I was ahing a tier 7 cruiser 16km range after all the flags and stuff, wiped out by BBs 30km away at the border, they reach me I cant get them at all
3:32 I don't think it's overmatch stopping the close play it's torps and dds ...with 4 dds a sub or two and the CV in play there is no sneaking anywhere and the sea is uber thick with torps
Yes, to Short it down. nobody pushes, BBs dont push because of Torps, Cruisers wont push because half BB overmatch half Torps, DDs cant push because they get spotted by Subs or CV, get focused down and neither have counterplay against subs nor CVs, Can't hunt the sub inside enemy lines and can't leave AA on cause it spots you nonstop. and at this point we already ignore Radars or other DDs. so if nobody wants to start pushing, sure as hell nobody is gonna push if they dont have the Absolute majority on a flank.
Kinda sounds like the game is unintentionally mirroring real life were ships and guns kept getting bigger and bigger as each nation one-uped the other except the reason for it in the game is a developer that has no original ideas beyond "give us money for bigger and more guns".
You are way overthinking this. Moronic monkeys camp because they are idiots. Had a game tho morning where 6 TX BBs and a TX CA spent 15 minutes hiding behind islands where I (aDD) had killed the only DD on our side of the map, severely damaged the Conq with torps, and a Yam was hiding behind an island. They would not push at all, even when the impressive lead we had was being whittled away. We only won because one of the two enemy DDs went insane and shot, was spotted and his last 100 hp was removed. It’s passive because morons cannot see when they have a large advantage and move to lock in the win. After the game only one of our BBs was above a 49% WR, the rest were horrible players.
Ive never had issues with CV or SS. SS torps are usualy pretty easy to dodge, after they ping you, you know where torps are comin from. And CV is only a problem if you charge in alone.
Random is total misery these days. 90% of matches are 1 sided wipes, as soon as 1 teams DD's just self terminate themselves by running into the CV planes. BB's ASW is utter trash why do the secondarys on every ship not shoot at periscopes like they would in real life. The CV rework is desperately needed since we now have hybrid BB's and Cruisers. Only fun in the game is brawls operations ranked ect.
On the one hand they are giving BBs which are rushing and making game less passive, on the other hand, everyone is running away to stay out of secondaries and making game even more passive
When have Tier 10 matches not been relatively passive? Everything about that tier severely punishes overextended ships. You do have to play somewhat passive until you find an opening to exploit. Subs are not quite dearh machines, but you do have to do stupid things relative to enemy surface ships in order to not be whittled down by an effective sub driver.
This is exactly why the match maker ends up putting 6 battleships and 2 CVs on each team. They’ve buffed the snot out of those classes and nerfed the crap out of everything else.
The gimmick creep is causing the need for better team communication but that area of the game is not advancing. Example: chat msgs from the red team spam the chat box leaving it useless for allied communication.
I also seriously think that the neglect of brawlers, looking specifically at the main line German BB's. There is no real advantage to playing a brawler, it is literally a coin flip and isn't viable. I think if WG actually improved brawling ships (e.g. a slight buff to the accuracy and dispersion or maybe even range to the main line German BB's) it would encourage players to try out different styles of play and hopefully decrease this meta. If people see that brawling is effective and viable, more players will want to try it out rather than sit at the back of the map all day.
my proposal for changes to ranked battles: allow only the top 3 players from both teams to advance, or 3 from the winning team and 1 from the losing team. the current rules promote weak and passive players. ranked battles are ranked only in name. also, access to ranked battles is limited to owners of at least one ship branch.
I feel like with the exception of the Yammy/Slava type of BBs, reduce range by a few Km’s off the range of 90% of ships’ guns and radars and see what happens.
Most of the other BBs may have the range, but those shots are low percentage shots. Unlikely to hit. Now bad players will of course continue to spend all day plinking away, but I find CV presence (passive spotting) and DD count to be the biggest reason’s not to push. I push into back line BBs all the time, and they seldom win.
Due to my physical limitations i just play coop matches. I have tried battleships but can't' get them to work. That said i prefer cruisers 1st, destroyer's 2nd and carrier's 3rd. I mainly run the Des Moines, Gearing and Malta. Some battles i survive, some I don't. I enjoy the game because it is a distraction for me.
Superships was the dumbest thing WG ever came up with. Completely killed high tier randoms. Add in subs and the already hated CVs and you have a recipe for ppl just heading into Ops or Asyms, which in turn will only keep ppl playing for a limited period of time before bored.
Heres whats ruining the game in no particular order: Ship imbalances (play the Meta or lose), CV/Sub player skill imbalances (team with better Cv or Sub players has a significant advantage), Non skilled based matchmaking (teams getting steam rolled d2 significant skill dispariities leads to games that just arent fun)
Camping can get old. Especially when you see 2 BB's and 3 Cruisers trying to get behind the same tiny island and one player constantly pointing it out and calling them cowards in chat and completely ignoring the stealth torping DD or sub on the flank. It's even worse when it happens in Brawls and Ranked. Gimmicks like airstrikes can force players from behind an island, but a lot of times they'll just sit there and take it. I feel like the gimmicks are going to force players to start considering what they're going up against. Like a DD player checking for radar in the loading screen or a BB trying to stick with a DD or ship with sub surveillance when there's a sub on the flank. There's a lot to consider in a match and it can get old trying to find all the ways you can get sunk. Personally, I've been playing Operations a lot more because sometimes I just want to get a bit brawly and blow shit up without thinking too much about it.
As a cruiser enjoyer, battleships are op, i hate them more than any sub or cv. One guy had a go at me because i am dead right at the start of the game, a cv came to fly by and spot me, and a satsuma shot me once and 100% to dead in one shot, and to this guy it was all my fault.
I did they that to a yoshino in my shima. 1 salvo 100% HP in less than a minute into the game. That shit should not be possible. CV should not be able to spot right from the start. Let the teams get in some workable position. Today my CV saved my a.s, I was in my Moskva, focused from the start, Essex covered me in smoke. Thanks for that. But rarely you find a player to play teams.
i think one thing that has been overlooked is to many have no clue how to actually play the ship they have. mostly i think new players as they pop radar or sonar long before anything in range and makes no sense. subs only an issue if u dont pay attention. i have chased down i dont know how many subs with my halland or shima. u may notice to dd without hydro or sub detection ability. my issue is still the amount of no skill needed cv play. also another thing is to many assume u have to shoot from range with bb. i still get my thunderer into point blank fights and that has no damn armor to speak of. the game has no tactics or strategy because on top of it all they have added super op dd that dont need torps to be a pain in the ass. they have hydro-radar and smoke with fast reloads so u have no chance in a dd to run. when in my dd i get bitched at for not spotting even though i am 15km ahead of the team and often under 10km from radar cruisers. so many factors but i think the big one is no skill players as they seem to be a lot of them now
Being 2x uptiered all the time sucks most. Who needs say TVII ships anymore when you get constantly matched up against TIX?! The whole thing is a mess.
This is definitely a part of the problem and a big contributor to frustration levels. The difference between ships that are two tiers apart is quite large. I personally think they need to either make it that all games are your tier only, or at least 1 tier difference. Not 1 tier higher AND lower, because that is what we have now. Just 1 tier max (such as 7's and 8s)
I would disagree and just say people don’t k ow how to play. I say this because they hide in brawls even when it’s cruiser v cruiser or cruiser v dd and so on and you have brawls even that last till the timer runs out. Every game no matter what it’s the new player way to just head for the nearest island and sit.
if yall played cv a bit you would have realized this a year ago lol. CV and sub contribute to it more? yes. But so do 4 minute poor DD players, these high cal BBs, etc.
Cruiser armors back in the day were much better than current state of the game. Why? Well, back then there were only 2 BB lines. USN and IJN. Cruisers are armored enough to sustain up to 419s. Store of balanced. Then WG add German BBs that have a gun of 420mm. But have 32s asa. Downsides. That’s fine, GK 420 back in the day isn’t that popular as people prefer the 406s because better DPM. (yes, GK back then was the Og German tech tree that have a gun choice of 406s and 420s). Then, the introduction of British BBs. These guys have okay AP with good HE. Back then Thunderer and Conqueror are the same ship. 457mm and 419mm respectively. People prefers 419 because it had more guns and back then more guns = good. But that’s fine, 419mm can’t pen 30mm so Cruisers are save. Then comes the French, again not crazy big caliber guns. Not enough to hurt Cruisers. Then you have the Russki BBs. 457 with Vodka level of traverse speed and Belt armor that have more steel than entire of USSR T-34 production. And back then, Russian BBs have Radar. These are very special radar. They have 15km based range and only spotted Cruisers, Battleships and Carriers. It was insanely broken back in the day to the point WeeGee remove it. Everything went down hill from there. We have Thunderer, which is a cash grab from WeeGee of making a “New Ship” by removing 457 from Conquerer and place on Conquerer hull and make it a premium. Then they make GK as a premium and replace it with Prussian, Preussan? Whatever. From what WeeGee said “Consistency” despite the game isn’t consistent anyway afterwards. For a very long time, WG promised that they will not adding more ships that surpass Yamato gun caliber. Then, they broke the promise by introducing Shikishima. Back then, community is on fire. Some are welcome this Super Yamato while others just very angry that WeeGee break their promises. I’m the middle child of the group who is thrilled to see Super Yamato but also angry that WG break the promise. Then you know the rest. Satsuma and Hannover. 2 Overmatch BBs. Then German BC 420. Tbh, I was draw my final straw on Shikishima. I never trust WG again ever since they introduced Shikishima.
in my opinion, what needs to happen is an easing of the Damage Control Party consumable. It it way too overtaxed right now. You use it for fires, flooding, sub pings, damages modules, rudder, prop. Its overworked. my 3 things that need to happen: 1) just as flooding was nerfed back in the day, fires need to be nerfed. The way i would do it, the first fire deals 100% damage, the second fire deals 75% damage, the third fire deals 50% damage, the forth deals 25% damage. That way if you get multiple fires, its not the end of the world. 2) I would have the repair party have a brief burst of DCP at the beginning to put out fires, flooding, pings, control modules, the likes. You can time out your heals and your DCPs to the best effectiveness. 3) Lastly, I would have it so that fires actually allow for greater healing to occur. If you take a fire, and have a repair party consumable, the fire adds 10% health back to the repair party, effectively making it so that when you use your repair party, you can gain health back.
@teebob21 wow... thanks for adding about as much construction to this conversation as a woke college student. how about you actually make a point instead of throwing insults. if you can't do that, you can kiss my a$$
When is no CVs nether Subs in the match the play style is the same camping so must be another problem. At higher tiers if some one rushes in front it gets deleted in 20 seconds because everyone gonna focus on that ship.
And what do we get?... La Pampa a 30 torp DD. Had a game in DD the other day where WE had the clear spotting advantage so we should have been the aggressors. However my team made a small circle and wouldn't leave.
You didn't even mention the proliferation of radar on destroyers, cruisers and battleships. Too many capable of using stealth radars so every destroyer hangs back and refuse to spot because once they are spotted they are instantly killed. Once spotted, planes can keep them spotted, or even if they do use smoke any of the many radar ships can close with and spot them with radar, then nearly instant death to the spotted destroyer. The same is true for smoke using cruisers and Smoke using battleships. Do away with lock-on for every ship that is not itself spotting with their personal sensor platform,( their radar, their sonar, their spotting planes, their visual detection etc.) Show the ship on the mini-map but only allow it to be locked onto with gun sights from a ship that actually is spotting it. The increased dispersion from not having a lock on would increase the survivability of the small ships who could once again feel more safe about spotting. Limit the number of battleships in the game as there is often too many capital ships compared to the smaller ships, and stop allowing sonar and radar to work through islands.
They will never fix the bug with shells having a mind of their own , landing all over the place, esp near islands. If there is a bug with cvs or subs it is fixed the next day. No new maps for ages as well , they just punp out new ships that make the old ones obsolete. Money , money , money....
The answer is $$$. Premium ships = dollars. Once the player base is saturated with premiums, add a new class and/or tech tree line, then MORE premiums.
ALERT ALERT! Sorry for the caps but I really need to know if a enemy ship was using a cheat or not and here is what happened yesterday… I was in the BB Devastation and the other ship was the BB Main I had my nose pointed at him and it was just me and 2 enemy ships. The Main was almost at max firing range and so was I he also had his nose pointed at me and every shot he took knocked out a turret and I hit repair and I would fire and get 2 pens and then he would fire again and take out my turret and soon as I could I hit repair so now I have both turret’s back until he fired again and destroyed one turret so it was my turn to fire and and got one or two pens again then he fired again and took out the other turret and I’m thinking how is this player from a long distance able to take out both front turret’s so I fired again but it was from the back turret and I got one pen and it sunk him and to get the other ship I had to sail in reverse. My question is could this player been using a cheat software that helped him take out both front turrets from about the max distance? Please answer I need to know? Thank you
Hello. I have no knowledge of cheatmods! But, one thing to keep in mind: if any BB is likely to be able to do this it's Maine! American BBs have slow shells with high air drag coefficients, so that at max range they are dropping almost vertically. This makes them tough to lead at moving targets which are traveling across their line of sight, but much easier to aim at bow in targets. The American BBs have some of the most consistent shells and the best vertical dispersion at range of any BB, especially the higher tier American BBs which have access to the accuracy mod in slot 6. Added to this Maine has a lot of shells! Perhaps not that surprising for it to knock out turrets as you describe, even at that range.
cruisers are screwed, u get set up on a flank with a sub, a dd and bb, u are supposed to push up o help spot and support dd. DD goes in smoke, sub goes underwater BB is too far away to do much (sometimes wont fire to keep themselves from being spotted) and guess what happens to cruiser? spotted by enemy DD no other friendly ships in sight for them to shoot at and your cruiser is focused down in first 3 min of game by everybody including pings from subs and if you are really unlucky cv planes also. That is exactly why cruisers are not moving up anymore at the start of matches especially if they are on a sub side. Last point, ships in mid will always go to the flank without the sub so they don't have to deal with them and we know what side the sub is on because it always lines up on the friendly sub side, so now players lose any support from mid which makes pushing that flank at that point nothing more than cannon fodder for the enemy team. Cruiser players are done with that and I can't even blame them anymore at this point. They need to go back to random sub placement so the teams don't have the incentive to run from a flank because they know a sub is there. Whats that old saying? Don't hate the player, hate the game.
It’s because BB are generally slower in speed. Too many people run in and die before they even arrive. It’s not rocket science.
As a fairly new player currently playing around tiers 5 to 7, I found that firstly the DD's were getting swatted like mosquitos early in the game at lower tiers. Now I am at a level where they are joined by cruisers getting wiped out in the first few minutes. So you either fork out cash to win by buying something with all the bells and whistles - or you hang back until someone else makes a move first, then it is a stampede to score some points before being picked off by the sharks hanging back well beyond range of anything you could toss in their direction. I am not sure at what level it is supposed to become a team game.
Thats what you get for playing invisible burny explodybois
@@tizme6105 cruisers tier 4-7 common experience that you're a floating citadel with little to no things going for you. So it's either you go remember all the peculiarities of one's armor scheme, find angles that you would likely to exploit, then know how to dodge reactively and preventively incoming bb shells. Then you'll have to know basic map awareness and positioning, not getting into cross-fires while playing on optimal range with ship's effective range and with this in mind you'll start to bring smth to the table as a cruiser player (ofc it's a lot to ask for a newbies that go get devstriked on the first gamerturn of the match). DDs queuing next game in 2 minutes is either an unlucky miscalculation or a skill issue. "team game" is smth barely happen in ranked, let alone random battles
Totally agree! As a cruiser main, I often experience this, the team pressures you to push and be more “useful”. However, the entire team states on the 9 line!! CVS don’t really help either, even a full AA build Worcester struggles nowadays
Another great reason for WG to bring back asymmetrical battles and make it a permanent mode.
Bots don't camp, Bots don't cry, it's actually fun to play.
I agree with this, and add more types of those modes aswell:)
Yep... it's the most fun mode right now, by far.
there is a reason a lot of us dont randoms. boring until the last 5 minutes - i want to battle not wait until near the end of time, like its a job someone has to do and i got the short straw.
Wows there are actually people who enjoy shooting gallery game mode.
Most people just bring Schliffen or GK in that game mode so the A.I aim and shoot for you so you just turn off your brain pressing W and fall asleep, it get boring after like 3 games because it's repetitive af.
@@Saw7th I’d like to see modes with 4 teams, as well as a longer play mode with respawns. Respawns would minimize the detrimental effect of bad players.
This vid sums up my biggest issue in the game atm. I'm a Hindenburg main. Y'know, the ship we used to call "Battlecruiser Hindenburg." It's pretty muchbeen reduced to a bigger, clumsier, less stealthy Minotaur. My OG playbook pretty much involved me sailing up until my detection radius covered the opposite end of the nearest cap, turn stern in, and provide close fire support for my DD. And then gradually kite away until I found an opportunity to duck behind an island and ambush the nearest pushing enemy ship. At close range the turtleback and 30mm plating allowed me to brawl BBs, and the torps and strong AP allowed me to knife-fight most cruisers [with the notable exception of Des Moines, which I had to give a respectable distance so that I could get my higher shell velocity to level the playing field]. It was a very fun and dynamic playstyle [I still have some vids on my TH-cam channel from those days] that rewarded bold, strategic play.
But I can't do that anymore. Any time I get spotted I lose half my HP in unmitigable BB AP pen damage because there is no way to effectively angle against that 430+mm incoming fire. And because there are now much faster aircraft and also unpredictable subs that can close in and spot me freely with total impunity, I quite simply cannot play at anything closer than 17-18km away from the nearest enemy ship until the final 5 minutes of the battle when almost everything is dead and my push is no longer effective.
I miss the old days.
Yep i change my hindemburg playstile too. I place the range mod and sail at +15km distance to have a chance to don't die in the first 5 min.
Powercreep has another strange effect - after release the game had all the most known navies and ships (Bismarck, Yamato etc) to attract players. As the years go by, this means that newer lines and ships are less known, but more powerful. And then you find yourself in a situation where an imaginary PanAmerican battleships outperform British or French or German battleships of the same tier.
The same problem over at World of Tanks. The much feared and hyped up real world tanks like Tiger and Tiger 2 are just pussy cats with small bites, thanks to their puny powercrept gun calibers of 88mm and 105mm.
exactly, I started playing because I wanted to have some historic ships. My best ships are generally things that were never built. I also chuckle at the idea that Russian ships have the best radar when they historically had garbage electronics and the British have almost no radar and they invented it.
@@Telefiend Literally! WG consumable logic and ship balancing makes absolutely no sense. The British ships with no radar is the funniest because, as you said, they literally invented it
@@samwch16992 How many of the paper tanks never got past prototype stage because design or tech flaws made the whole tank unworkable. But at WG, we'll assume they worked and here is a new OP premium tank for you to buy. Especially if it is a Russian tank!
@JackMerker daring and Vincent with radar would be busted, goliath honestly does need it imo and the conquerer line did have it in testing
Instead of adding new classes I would like to see a sail era 15-19th century ship game mode.
But hey I'm a weirdo, and might be the only person wanting this.
I second this, I wanna sail a Spanish galleon from Acapulco too.
that would be and should be a whole different game but I'd be down for it.
Nope. You're not the only one. I've thought of this for years. I was thinking a naval game that starts in the ancient era with biremes, triremes, then viking long boats, carracks, 15th century sailing ships, ironclads, WW1, post WW1, WW2, post WW2 and then modern. All within their own respective tiers and modes. Done well it would blow this game out of the water.
Anyone who has tried this has spectacularly failed with ships doing 16 knots, manoeuvring on a sixpence and just looking like a modern ship with sails - yuk. Agree the idea sounds exciting but in reality not.
@Peters2centsWorth
Preferably Deep Water Studios who made the fantastic U-boat game would make a sail era pirate hunting game with the same management mechanics, time dilation and world map overview as U-boat that's really what I want. But you can't always get what you want, but I heard if you try sometimes you get what you need.
Thanks for the reply friend. Have a good Christmas/Festivas.
Superships hands down has killed Tier 9-10
Play low tier games if you want to have OG fun, like this game used to be. All of SLM's comments hereare why top-tier games aren't fun -- BUT this is why I've been playing a lot of low tier games recently -- tier 5-6. It's more fun. In those tiers the game still "feels" like it used to, and still is mainly.a gunnery game. Subs at that level aren't very strong. CVs are annoying but can be dealt with. The game still is about strategy and angling and shooting accurately.
THIS.
Most underrated comment right here
This is part of the reason why I only play in Co-Op and Operation battles now, I haven't played in random battles for a long time, plus, I find it really stressful and not fun playing in random battles anymore
I would love to say ops are a good refuge. But dumb players show up there. I've lost count on the number of times you get 1-2 players that throw their ship away in the first 4-5 minutes. And now you are stuck at a huge disadvantage for the rest of the match.
@@irishwind1971 Most OP players have no idea what they are doing. Id say about 50% are just plain useless. 30% are competent to a degree and 15% are good players and only 5% are pro level.
Yup! Agreed!
@@irishwind1971 I'm new to gaming and I have to admit I am one of those players that has done that. The response in chat was indicative of high levels of frustration and I was frustrated and embarrassed as well. I apologized in the chat. Everybody is a newb at one point but it should not impact other players gaming.
Getting a toxic response from other players just makes me want to do Co-op and camp and that breeds toxicity.
I have less than 800 battles and I think you should have a minimum of 1000 to be able to join ops battles.
@diomedes7971I did that and ranked players are sooo rude way worse than randoms they all want to win blame you for any little thing no thanks I stopped ranked years ago
The sniper game started long before the subs came out, and there was Brawls long after the CV release... It was the sniper ships and the meta change that started the sniper game.
whats the point in moving your ship when you can just sit there like a massive railgun 26km away and up to 32 km and cit.
That is what killed the fun
CV release? You do know they have been in the game the whole time it's been a thing, right?
@@Bossman-pg8kk I have gamed since closed beta, pls dont teach me when or what. You are wrong
@@beqan2 so have I they literally was part of the closed beta so clearly you was not part of it then
@beqan2 they even used to be a full line back in the day not just 3 tiers
Remove the range modification and see how people cope.
Sitting in the back, hiding behind rocks the whole match are two things that make me dislike the playerbase.
@diomedes7971 Cruisers? You mean battleships. I have seen more battleships camping islands or rocks than cruisers.
And if you try to call them out, they say it's "safe gameplay".
@@TheOneOfMany well .... some BBs are ment to camp next to islands tho .... like RU BBs and some of the French BBs as well but i get ur general point
@diomedes7971 That's fair.
@@YogSothoth620 At this point I’m seeing up to 8 ships of all classes sitting behind a single island while the reds have 3 ships on their flank!
@@YogSothoth620no RU BBs r not supposed to camp cause they have the armour to tank they r supposed to draw enemy fire from their team mates to themselves..this is moronic to think that RU BBs are supposed to hide behind islands with the amount of armour they have...french BBs have high range and they r flankers and even they though can but r most effective in being mobile and trying to outflank enemy ships
BB and CV Main. As a BB I hate little ships that camp behind islands and rain down HE on me. I have no shot at them. Takes minutes to backup or turn my BB around and 30% of my BB lost to get out of their range. As a CV I love island campers and hunt for them. I spot campers and drive them out into the open with torps for friendly BBs to delete. So, if you see a red cruiser scrambling out from behind a island like a cockroach in bright light, Thank you friendly neighborhood CV captain.
As a CV player, i find that most of the time, when a flank falls its usually because the enemy team out gimmicked my team on that flank. I had games where the Flank fell quick even with my help, but the players tend to blame the op classes, so of course id get the blame despite not being able to really help that effectively, or in some cases, not being able to do anything.
It's been like that since the RTS days.
For real! When I play CV one of the DD flanks always complains about no spotting like its the CVs fault they got out played. Drop fighters, enemy pushes, planes get shot down, team complains about no spotting, team gets rolled. Its a fun gameplay loop lol
@@JackMerker I think fighters are also rather weak, both the carrier launched ones and the floatplanes. They should really do more than they currently do as right now they're rarely useful beyond spotting. I say remove the spotting but make them far more deadly rather than whatever mess of changes they're currently considering.
Hi there! With over 22k battles under my belt, I’ve seen that success in the game often boils down to the destroyer (DD) class. Battleships (BBs) and cruisers (CAs) only feel safe if there’s a DD within 5 km of them. When the DD is dead, the team often abandons the flank. But why is the DD dying?
Misplays like going broadside or smoking in the cap.
Failing to check if there’s radar nearby.
Not realizing that other DDs can use hydro to push them out.
Lack of team support if they’re contesting the cap.
Another big issue is +2 matchmaking. This has been an ongoing problem since Closed Beta Testing (CBT). Why should a Tier 8 ship have to face a Tier 10? Wargaming says it’s to "find matches quickly." Nonsense. They have little interest in players staying at Tiers 5-8; they want players at Tier 10, or even Tier 11. Why? Economy. They’ve stripped down so much of the game’s economy that it's hard for the average player to make a good income now.
This also leads to overpowered (OP) ship branches being released only to get nerfed later. You get a new line in early access, and the Tier 10 ship is almost guaranteed to be broken. After 2-3 months, the community’s complaints get it nerfed, and then the next line is released in early access.
I definitely agree that destroyers have a lot more sway than other classes, but I think that also creates a poor mentality where people immediatly cave in once their DD is dead, or they can't operate at all if there's no DD on either side. There are ways to push a destroyer out of an area under the right circumstances, especially if they don't actually have support from their team. It's not ideal and can be scary, but defaulting to abandoning the entire flank and fleeing to the other side of the map is a very fast way to lose.
I think it’s just that the offensive capabilities of ships keeps increasing, but the survivability stays about the same, in every case presented in the video I think it all ties back to damage creep. Everything dies in seconds so nobody is going to take any risks and push, why would you when your guns are as good from 19km as they are from 9km?
I'm calling MM to the stand too. The +2 -2 is a pain. You see cruisers with just about the same HP as a BB.
MM should be +1 -1 and that would really solve many problems with MM but no we can't have the money investing players complaining
It’s the reason I slowly have backed out of playing randoms. It’s not fun to constantly lose, and then you start to pay attention to who you’re losing to - ships two tiers higher, game after game after game after game. You know they have data on our skill levels, use those to match us.
Thanks for the video SLM. You mentioned La Pampa: was paired with one in a brawl yesterday. Must have been a CC or tester playing it I guess. I was playing GK. We were against two BBs: GK and Schlieffen. Even against two hydro ships the La Pampa dominated the battle totally! Looks a very strong DD. At one point the enemy GK, on almost full hp, had to push into the caps or they were going to lose on points. Result: one dead GK!
I think you're right about the gimmick creep: each new ship has to have something to make it sell. Result: the game gets more and more unstable in terms of the balancing of different ship strengths. This in turn leads to more one sided matches and more passive game play as players try to compensate by offsetting risk.
As somebody who loves to play cruisers I can only second that. Overmatch is a huge problem. My suggestion (I mention that always when this topic comes up) is to tie the overmatch capability on the distance to the target. Make the overmatch decrease over range.
This is exactly why I love T6-T8 games, because they are actually fun and engaging, and not just getting HE spammed for an entire battle, getting hit with 20 torpedoes you have no chance of dodging, or a squadron of 12 AP bombers that kill you before you even get to the action. I have personally enjoyed playing ships like KGV and Bismarck at same tier games that some of the higher tiers.
Crusises have it the worst and i am primarily a cruiser player. Can't hit anything at range so you move up to cover the DDs who get out spotted by the sub, only to get nuked by all the BBs sitting in the back. Try to sit back and wait for the battle to develop and you are over run because the other team doesnt hang back and pushes. Its a knife edge and you either have a great game or it totally blows
One thing I notice is that when CVs and Subs are not in the match people still don't push. Most of the dds like sitting in smoke and can burn down full HP bbs while never being spotted is a big deterrent for me as a cruiser player to push.
I do agree with you, but there is this problem since day 1 that is MM and the random player dynamic of the game/match. You can have all sorts of tactics and ships, but the random-ness of the players playstyle and the MM diff, puts the match on a unknown factor. You have people rushing for a chance to set them on fire, flooding, unfair ship matchup or just a few more hits to reach their mission complete, campaign etc. And this makes everything just holly molly...
The PVP perspective of the game have in the recent years, doesnt fit well anymore with all these changes in my opinion. Had there been a PVE mode against super AI raid mode of some sort, then builds and tactics could probably have been implemented to a certain degree to make all ships fit for certain role. PVP random-ness is now just for RNG sweat bonanza OP meta ships...
At the end of the day, what da heck do i know? If you ask me i enjoyed the game since beta to a certain extent, but the way the game is progressing, it is just a matter of time, before people just had enough or they already had enough xD The player base atm, most are loyal, but the devs seem to not see that the game hinges on a thin line for most people and the era of information and better games are upon us due to the increase of player revolts xD
Well stated.
yeah, i feel like ops are the funest part of the game now, you know EXACTLY what BS awaits you in every op, and usually have at least one ship that is well suited to that op on the team
My main problem with the game is the spotting. How can another plane or ship provide you you with so much info that it is like you can see the target yourself. That is better than modern ships with satellite, drone, Aegis cruisers and long range radar can do today. It's as if the Captain in the game gets spotting info from friendly units and it's automatically projected on the holographic imager that surrounds the bridge and combat center and appears like you can see all around you. Putting all the spotting info on the mini map is modern, never-mind in WW2 where it would be hand plotted on a map with marker then relayed to the Captain by voice.
All ships you don't see yourself should only appear on the mini map, this includes your own radar only spotting. Ships of WW2 needed visual (their own) on the enemy for any accuracy. You can shoot at a target on the mini map but it's iffy at best for a hit.
The game today has too much spotting for other ships to use that is way too much, hence the long range stand off type of battles we see.
True. If it was map only + visual targeting people would have to push up to get reliable damage. This is my biggest issue with CVs as well.
And the mechanics for this are there: subs at periscope depth cannot see as far as they can on the surface.
You are omitting a fourth reason. The addition of so many radar ships over the years has pushed DD play further back as well. (not to mention super fast torpedoes) It is not unusual to see a random with three radar ships on the opposing team. Not to mention a cv or two and any number of hybrids. Early in the game, it just becomes suicidal for a dd to venture any closer to the caps than the edge of radar range. I don't see subs as much of a problem. I don't like them but they rarely are game impacting. Just annoying.
It's easy to complain about CVs, Subs etc. where people feel they can provide a 'straightforward solution'. While noone really can give an insightful, concise explanation for a solution to Overmatch.
Anyone can say, nerf planes, minimap spotting, buff AA.
But overmatch is such an ingrained mechanic in WOWS aht I've yet to see any CC/ WOWs official come up with something that would not straight up break the game or send it back 5 years.
Potato Quality talked about the solution to over match on his channel when he was doing a review for the Tennesse
Just remove overmatch past 8km so that cruisers can reliably angle and live at range, but they can't just torp rush BBs and get away with it
@diomedes7971 re: bottom tier specifically- they had announced a maximum “40% bottom tier” at one point. I have never seen them retract this, but my experience at T6 and at T9 is very similar to yours. Way more than 40% down 2 tiers (in the same ship).
This. Planes are annoying mainly because 1. they're so tanky but 2. because they provide full spotting. This is basically a death sentence to every cruiser, because battleships can just send it at 22km, well outside of the cruiser's range, and score cits even through angled armour due to overmatch. It's a combination of factors, but I can say that overmatch and full spotting from planes is a textbook example of horseshit game design.
One of the reasons i quit playing upper tier is the overly passive and camping style of play at T9-T11. Going back to tiers 5-7 is more aggressive style of play and therefore a little more entertaining. Asymmetric Battle is fun for two reasons for me: (1) using red and blue bonuses to build up credits, Cmdr Xp and Free Xp in order to boost up my commander skills; (2) I try the various ships i have to mix it up in (keep it interesting ) which is fun since i have a lot of ships (doing this in Ops Battle mode can help also). With the upper tier its the prolonged cat and mouse in the first half of the game which is boring. I THINK WG MADE A BIG MISTAKE WHEN THEY INCREASED DETECTABILITY RANGES, as this moved ships further back which moves people further back from the cap zones. If WG lowered detectability ranges and also if they got rid of the domination maps (not cap zones A, B, C, and D), so that every battle had cap zones (A, B, C, etc), i think this would move players closer in and increase the engagement. Just an opinion from an 8 year player. Cmdr_WSRamsey o7 SLM.
It is not aircraft carriers in submarines people are afraid to scratch their pixel ships long before those were a thing the way they are now.
Subs are essentially DDs that submerge instead of smoke. CVs on the other hand: it is their passive spotting that unleashes the entire red team’s firepower on a ship. This is the primary issue with CVs, and with the firepower at high tier, range or islands are the best shields against this.
@@xPureNRG007x Spot on. Full spotting from planes is the most dogshit mechanic in wows.
I think the bigger part of this issue is the range modification available to every T9+ ship. When every ship can snipe at beyond maximum range you shouldn't be surprised when everyone engages at beyond maximum range. You can't push in because you're in range of every ship on the map. Remove the range mod from the game and I'd be willing to bet that suddenly games will get a lot more close in and action-packed because you can't just borderhump and still fire at most of the map. It would also make a lot of T7 ships far more bearable to play in uptiers as they might actually be able to get in gun range of the T9s smashing them from the 1 line. It's why T5-T8 is notably more consistent fun than T8-T11, because you can't camp the same way every top tier games turns into.
If you get sniped by a range mod Yamato or Montana, that really is your problem. You would have 15+ secs to make minor adjustments to your path to dodge the shells. Only reason you get hit by those extreme snipes are either you arent moving, or you are just sailing in a straight line. Not to mention, most T10 bb's don't even run range mod, they prefer the reload mod.
@@athras8822 Dodging one is easy, I can do that all day. Dodging 7 from multiple corners of the map is a little harder. It's also not as much of an option if you're in a slow chunky battleship. The issue isn't with dodging or not dodging because that is ultimately irrelevent. The issue is with both battleships and cruisers playing passively at maximum range because by pushing forward you're in range of the whole enemy team and get focused to death, regardless of how well you dodge or angle; you will get whittled down.
I don't mind there being long-range ships, but when every single high tier ship is or can be a long-range ship it promotes the passive meta that's plagued top-tier for years now. If the range mod isn't being used (which I doubt) then nerf the ranges of most top tier ships. If ranges are reduced ships will be forced to be closer to each other which discourages passive play. That is my point. If you want to argue against that, do so. Dodging is irrelevent.
@@athras8822 And what happens when you get spotted by planes, and youre in a cruiser? Now you're getting shot at by 4 battleships from 4 different angles, in what is effectively a crossfire, and all it takes is 1 lucky shell to hit your citadel (of course, after overmatching your angled armour, because overmatch is a good game mechanic) and you've lost a quarter of your health. Also add the fact that the CV can sit outside of your actual AA damage range and keep you spotted for the entire time, and you can't even outrun it. So you basically have to stay alive to run to the corner of the map and get out of BB range, or you just get blindsided and die. The battleships dont even need to have range mod either, because there's just way too many massive guns with long ranges in the game now.
1:34 I remember with joy how Flamu would post videos of how many planes he could shoot down with a good AA ship back when AA was good. The planes would fall out of the sky like autumn leaves. It was great.
I'm heavily conflicted about the general take here.
I'm a good all-rounder in terms of the classes you can play in game, and if there's something I keep seeing left and right, is that the only population that is never hurt by any form of patches are the Battleships. You select Random Battle, click play and the matchmaker will happily tell you there's 2 CVs, 30 BBs, 7 CA/CL, 5 DD, 3 SS in the queue with you. It's also pretty amusing to see people pointing at those smaller classes, but in Brawls or Rankeds all you see is German/Pan-American battleships absolutely everywhere.
One of the big issues of passive gameplay that absolutely no one mentions and only now has been started to surface? Every single latest battleship that has been released having 12.3Km secondaries that are absolutely braindead to use, deal 1.4K damage every second (plus fires) and force me to stay behind or get out of range. Let alone every top tier ship nowadays has either hydro, radar, engine boost or a combination of them, plus combat instructions.
As a destroyer, why should I go push up or scout, when the moment the 12Km radar spots me, or anything else spots me, I will have four BB automatically make it rain on me with no input from the players? Same for cruisers, made worse with the overmatch already mentioned in the video. The new Pan-American ships are a complete joke that go beyond the ridiculousness that German Battleships already were in terms of secondary effectiveness.
The classes that actually *break* the passiveness and encourage playing together are, unironically, the ones people always demonize, DD, CV and SS. They are the ones that can manage to get an angle on island huggers and 1/4 sailers and deal some damage to make them move. I love how people blame me for not spotting when playing either, but at the same time to be efficient for my team, I have to be up close and spotting to release my torpedoes or strike ships. It's also very fun to see the 'cheap DD torped me' situation arise every time, but for those torpedoes to hit, you had to sail straight for a minute, and most of the fist shaking comes in situations where it's 1 DD vs. 1 BB, of course the DD is going to have the advantage there, it's rock, papers, scissors.
There are a lot of things that could be tweaked to remove passiveness, overmatch is one of them. But I definitely disagree with having to keep nerfing DD, CV and SS, when the people will just straight report you because you were not doing the things they're blaming you for.
The issue lies with the playerbase and their skill, not so much the classes themselves, some balancing aside.
That's a partially true narrative you sound butt hurt
Strategy... There are very few players who utilize one. Additionally basic math skills seem to be at a premium
CVs should never provide full spotting except to full-sized battleships. The fact a bunch of planes can keep a cruiser or dd full spotted is a mindnumbing and horseshit mechanic.
This was discussed on the forums quite a lot.
It is the spotting mechanics, once you are spotted, all enemies within range can take potshots at you. In high tiers, when ships have bigger guns that hit harder and more accurately, being spotted is not fun at all. Hence, players sit at max range to try to limit the amount of enemy ships shooting them.
01:20 I think another reason contributing is radars (I am NOT saying remove radars btw) I just think with the two other points it just becomes a perfect sauce/pasta to make a game veeeeeeeeeery passive.
In the comments, we have the fairly tired argument of "invisible destroyers"... really? Older torp DDs are still bad, vulnerable to sub or CV spotting, radar, gunboat DDs (with radar) AND torps are actually not easy to land. Gunboat DDs on the other hand have a terrible time because you're naturally spotted if you're trying to gunboat, and their ranges are fairly low (except Kleber, because.. idk, speedjuking and French saturation, go nuts.). DDs suffer greatly from the passive play because they can't creep up to unwary easy targets, and getting spotted means a quick trip to port if the enemy team is close. Your own team can't help, they're staring at rocks for safety and comfort. Passive sniping play sucks for everyone and makes matches boring.
And then there is the issue of your speed juking DD losing its engine repeatedly. But I have seen far too many Shimakazes sailing along behind their back line BBs. Multiple games every session. It is a real problem. And some of these same players are now branching into Halland.
@@xPureNRG007x the devs really screwed subs pretty badly.....espicially CV's why not let their class have their own game mode? both are used strategically in different ways although they could limit it to 1 said class only tone the damages down or increase the ship's survivability whats your thoughts?
@@gamerboi5678 Planes should never provide full spotting, or they need to be much more susceptible to AA. CVs shouldn't be able to permaspot a cruiser or dd with 0 repurcussions, and while those dd and cruisers have no agency to defend themselves. AA is pitifully weak, and it makes cruisers so boring to play if youre against a CV who isnt braindead.
@@m1812Z what about scout planes? what if we add those in the game? honestly AA on a lone ship is ineffective and everybody knows that whether its a cruiser or not and we'll hit into the topic of team play here so i wont say much AA is really bad at hitting things unless you are radar guided or computers...
Great video again SLM. T10 is frequently frustrating due to passivity, a rapid wipe-out or being focussed by the CV or sub. In contrast I often go back to T4 which is fast flowing, fun and has zero gimmicks. It’s a fair fight. The only advantage a player can have is having more captain skills. No ridiculous walls of torps or an absurd rain of shells from large guns firing like machine guns. So the games are all about fire and movement. T6 is also a nice balance but often spoiled by uptiering.
Herein lies another problem. I imagine a lot of people play T10 not so much cos they really enjoy it but more to avoid being double uptiered. Who wants to start the game with a handicap and feel like they are there as cannon fodder for someone else ?
I agree. I used to play T9 until Superships came out for this exact reason. Now T7-T8 have been rejuvenated because all the T9 are getting sucked into T11 matches, and T6 sucks because you are in T8 all the time.
@@xPureNRG007x Yup and if new players get fed up being beaten up at T6 by T8 ships, where is the future playerbase coming from?
As a newer player with fresh eyes. BB's are too accurate at long range. They can comfortably sit at their max range and reliably hit for good damage, which creates a sniper meta at all tiers. If they were more realistic and had trouble landing shots at longer ranges it would force a more midrange meta and make cruisers better as a result.
Look truth be told everything is fking opposite in this game..bs r the tankiest so they r supposed to be at the second line whilst cruisers support them and dds st the first line but in this damn game BBs remain at the very back trying to fking snipe even if they cant
Some BBs are, many others are not. Even in the video you see SLM missing entire salvoes many times. But at high tier, if you are the first spotted you are done in seconds due to the volume of fire inbound.
I'll give you another idea of why top tier matches are so passive. It has more to do with the longer you last the more damage you do the better your XP is so everyone's hanging in the back trying to not be the shiny object
For me it's always been about that damn HE spam, hidden in smoke or behind islands.
It's a number of these issues, and the "small" maps in the higher tier matches. When a large number of BBs can cover 100% of the map from the G-5 position... that's an issue to me.
Add that a majority of the higher tier matches are already decided 5 minutes into them, and pretty much over at 6.5 minutes. This removes the fun factor.
This is why that Leyte Gulf mission (?) where you had to destroy an enemy from within 10km and survive was so annoying. It could only be completed in Random or Ranked, and I am a PvE main. As a consideration to my team mates, I played tier V DDs that could stealth launch torpedoes* and set out to contest caps (earlier attempts with cruisers went badly). Surviving after scoring a kill was a challenge, but the kill was nearly trivial. I don't like PvP play and assume that I do not do it well, so I had to join in in a way that I was certain that I could contribute to the team's success. At tier V, the ranges are such that camping is less of a problem and subs only show up if up-tiered.
* You would be surprised by what DDs can stealth launch torpedoes, once you understand that it is the intersection point of the target's path and torpedoes' path that must be in the torpedoes' range, not the target at point of launching. The Okhotnik can have a detection range of 5.8 km and has torpedoes with a range 4.5 km, but, if a fast target is coming towards you, you can stealth launch torpedoes from the Okhotnik.
The higher up the tiers you go, the more the balance between offense and defense shifts toward offense. So find the balance that feels good to you, and play that. My favorite tier is 8, which is where I feel the balance is the best.
The game is NOT balanced. The HE spamming and fires are out of control. How can a DD have better AA than a BB? A DD can eat a full broadside from a BB and survive then smoke up and HE spam 50-70% of your BB HP??? WTF!
The need to lose the whole, "You can't see a ship at this range because we said so" mechanic. I can tell you having been on ships many times, you can most certainly see a ship the size of a DD at a pretty good range.
Unfortunately this game isn’t rooted in reality. Nigh invulnerable (and nonexistent) Soviet ships, ships that can burn others down and pretty much never be spotted…there’s a lot about this game that is far from reality.
The primary issue with WoWs balance beyond CVs has been Battleship main gun accuracy. It has been overtuned since 2016 and has only gotten worse each years with more and more BBs being released with even better accuracy attributes (Sigma and Min/Max Dispersion) at long range. This very specific overpowered attribute for the majority of BBs now at high tier is the root cause for many other perceived balance issues from the lens of playing different ship types. As WG and large swaths of the player base do not understand the intricacies of data analytics, and data-based game balancing - other ship types have also reaped balance passes simply because of perceived end effects that are easily attributed to the overtuning of BB accuracy. Now we also have the prevelance of BB overmatching everything, BBs that are even faster than some DDs, BBs that have concealment close to that or better than some Cruisers... ontop of the overtuned accuracy which further destroys the balance top to bottom. Name any other game out there, multiplayer, competitive... whatever... where you have an archetype that can embody a sniper, tank, brawler, and in some cases, assassin. There isn't one for good reason. You have many top tier BBs in WoWs that embody 3-4 of those. Low risk and High reward equates to Overpowered in any multiplayer game.
If Battleships were significantly less accurate and less precise at ranges beyond 18km at tiers 9 through 11 - How would the dynamic of most battles change? Here are just a few examples.
1.) Everyone would have the capability of being more aggressive, including BBs, and skill in that aggression would still be paramount over luck.
2.) Cruisers having more aggressive capabilities would then be more attuned to utilizing their anti-DD platforms, and at the same time there would be absolutely no excuse for Radar and Hydro working without LoS.
3.) More tactics become feasible and more ships can play to their designed strengths.
and that would just be the start. Speed and Concealment should be next on the tuning block once a good performance sample size can be gathered after the accuracy changes.
Overmatch is a big problem as you say and the other one I don’t think gets mentioned enough.....DPM power creep is a huge factor too - you can’t push into so much DPM at all, even without overmatch
I think the problem is simpler. Players want to make the game last as long as possible. The clock says 20 minutes in the longest it can be. If everyone just rushed, with the exception of the game lasting 5 to 7 minutes with a "long" game lasting 10 minutes the game would get a lot more active. Somehow all of us players that hate the passive meta need to get on teams and have the entire team push, every game until it is the new meta.
The lack of easy strategy is the problem
spotting, combined with the range and the deathstrikes.(And 21point captains)
It used to be you died when you made a mistake. Wrong angling as a cruiser, not respecting your detection range as a dd.now there is spotting with no consequenties everywhere. Radar, planes and subs. It has always been the first thing spotted in range dies. We have to go back to where positioning maters and playing well is rewarded. Not a game of hide and seek and once spotted you are out.
(21point captains because new players do not have them and they are OP. Coop is not a fun game mode, and grinding tech tree in random means your team loses)
I have heard about 1 and 2, but the 3rd one caught me a little off guard tbh.
Though, I still think that's not the reason for why people are playing more passivly, if you want my opinion.
There is a old saying in World of warship; First spotted, first to die.
The reason for it is quite simple; If you get spotted first, no matter if your DD, CL or BB(or ANY OTHER SHIP); You will get focused fired upon. You will be litten up like a candle and eventually die within the 5-10 min mark. If you a closer then the others, well... your the closes enemy, within their range, thus you are an great threat.
The only thing that I can see the value of 3rd point is that most of the armor of the ships is armored for that thing at mind; Distance. Though, armor doesn't do any good when your superstructer is a weakspot, HE is a thing, HE Spam = Fire Spam and since subs and CV can keep you spotted... Well, your toast.
Since I played Libertad, I did notice this. Hench why I often hold my fire until I either a) Get spotted or b) I open fire. It has worked really great, since libertad has a 13 km detection range and her sec. reach out to 12.5 km(before you press the "funny button"). Currently, with 62 battles played, I have a win rate of 75.81% in it, due to that simple(yet effective) trick. That and Libertad is OP with nearly everything in her favour(Speed, acceleration, Sec., Numbers of gun, Caliber of gun((419mm)), heal that rivals Ohio and concelment)
Though, running from cover to cover seems to be a solid tactic to counter stale play... That is of course, untill CV decided to "arrest your for haveing fun" or Subs doing sub things; Destroying fun and keeping you spotted for everyone and their grandparents to behold.
I honestly hadn't thought about the caliber creep. I was grinding BBs for a while, but now that I'm grinding out the Soviet cruiser line, I've had appalling numbers of citadel hits in games where I'm uptiered. So I guess that is a likely issue. I don't remember the US or German line being that vulnerable when I was working my way through their tech trees.
Neither Subs, CVs or overmatch are the major causes of the passive meta.
Here on the EU server: What happens to a BB that pushes early? It gets focussed by every ship that is in range. And in T9-T11 games, pretty much every ship has a lot of range, even DDs.
So early push = low survival, because you get foccussed by way more ships than in lower tier games. So as a BB player, the maximum range of secondaries is/was 12.5 km in a T10 and that is way to low. Before you can push into that range you probably lost more than half your HP.
It is also not helpful, that WeeGee published a lot of ships that are very strong in burning down other ships and can sit behind islands or in smokes.
Push = you get totally obliterated by isle-hugger or smoke-camper and yes, there are also mild annoyances by subs and CVs
With the recently pubished Panamerican BBs it is even crazier.
Usually I have an averyge potential damage about 1.4-1.5 million in a German T10 BB and these are really really liked targets on the battlefield.
The Los Andes is currently at 1.8 million and is still able to survive long enough to be my best performing damage dealer, even better than the Libertad, which is similar in this matter. But both ships have a hard, very hard time to push early.
So, if you don't have a ship, that can survive any pushes, you stay back and snipe. THAT is the main reason.
In T8 and lower there is no range mod available for ships and the normal range of ships isn't as high. So there is more space on the maps, where ships can operate w/o getting completely destroyed once spotted. Means, games are less passive and people get more fun pushing.
Yeah, usually when I'm not pushing and people ask me why I'm at the back of the map, I have 1 simple response:
"I'm a German BB"
Exactly right
As a mostly BB main player I definitely agree with this, but I believe it is a mixture of things that are causing the issues we currently have. BB players rely on DD or CV to spot for them, but they have their own issues. DD's entire defense is not being spotted or being in smoke. Well, WG has destroyed that with CV spotting constantly as well as many new ships added that have radar. Cruisers are suppose to help defend them, but BB's now have massive range and so much overmatch power against them that with all that spotting they are deleted quickly. So, you have a cascade effect that either your team dies out quickly or, as often happens, an entire team sits in the back of their spawn sniping or behind islands HE spamming until the last 5 - 7 minutes of the match where they all push finally.
Saying that, I will say that CV's are at an advantage. No one pushes so they almost always live until the end of the game. 85% of their planes WILL make is through AA defenses to hit you, even if you have 2 other ships right beside you and you are all blasting away at the planes. There simply isn't a good counter to them until late game when most of their team is dead and you can finally hunt them down. Until then, they have free reign to hit and spot you over and over again without having a down side to any of it
I just think that if we are playing higher tier matches every one should have a good understanding of each ships characteristics. I recently started playing more aggressive in all ship types excluding the subs and CV’s and from what I’ve seen I’m either able to defend a flank so it’s not over run… I still end up dead in that scenario, or I just outright bully my flank. From those matches I’ve played I can tell a lot of players in t10 don’t belong.
While it might be true that some gimmicks are on the ridiculous side, most of them don´t prevent me from wanting to get closer. What does keep me from doing that when it happens are 1. Subs, I feel at a major disadvantage when I start to get pinged by one of those damn things. When fighting surface ships, you actively aim at them, whether it be with your main guns or torps. But when dropping ASW charges on subs, you´re almost ¨blind dropping¨ on them, hoping you guessed correctly what direction they are going. So yes, that keeps me from pushing in when I know there´s a sub on my flank. 2. Add to that, that CVs keep you perma-spotted, making is easier for those 460mm + BBs to shoot and delete you from half a map away.
The sad thing is that the more we complain about these things, the more that WG keeps pumping out the cancer ships that keep the meta stale and ¨campy.¨ They will never do anything to fix it, because they don´t care what we think or feel as long as it makes them money. Who cares if your video game is fun for the people that play it, right?
You - The Omaha
Everyone else - Ipiranga
Fair Winds homie!
I really don't have much of a problem with CV's , a bit with Sub's at the lower Tiers, but the huge caliber BB's have made CL play.... challenging to say the least. I love fighting light Cruiser's but at the higher Tiers it's increasingly lethal. It takes the fun out of the game when you fire a volley and then get erased by a dozen 18"+ shells.
I agree power and gimmick creep is a thing, and some older ships need some buffs. If subs are still an issue for you still, I got nothing. And I do look forward to the great CV re-rework. But even if we nerf CVs, banish subs, and fixed ships, people will still complain and camp. While I like seeing airship escort and encounter back, I wish WG would put their big boy pants on and just dump them and the other brawling modes into randoms.
I would say reduce the ranges on BBs so that they just cannot fking camp so that they r forced to play at mid ranges that would solve most things and plus reduce the time per match for randoms cause this thing occurs the most in randoms
@@MartialEmperor6344 I hope once the CV spotting goes away, those back row snipers get a wake up call. If DDs still die in the first five minutes, and no one can spot for them while they remain perma spotted by enemy DDs, maybe a light will go off. And protecting DDs early will pay off later in the match. Nah. Why should they change? They will go from complaining about being perma spotted by CVs to complaining their isn't enough people spotting for them.
I play on EU, todays evening tier X queue oscilated around: 6 CVs 90 battleships, 12 crusiers 24 destroyers, 4 subs for my 3 hours session, it really shows people don't wanna play crusiers, and i understand them because they really don't have much to go for them, Battleships now have 10-12 sec rudder shift times, 30sec turret traverse, crazy cammo values, mobility and ofc busted armor, while crusiers have... big citadels? Yeah, it's better to play gunboat dd because then you won't be citadeled at least
Definitely agree that T9-10 has gotten really strange. I'd also claim that with so many premiums available that anybody with a credit card can buy, you also get a lot of inexperienced players at the top who just genuinely have no idea what to do other than hide. High tier matches are very unforgiving of even the slightest mistake. There are a lot of little problems that collectively add up to the big issue of these matches. Playing T8, especially later in the evening, is nearly an exercise in masochism, but T5-7 is still quite fun. I find myself playing lower tier more and more often as time goes on. Can't wait for asymmetric battles to return. That, imho, is one of the best game modes they've introduced to date.
almost impossible to be a brawler now... though i do try.
Even though Yamato's guns had not really that better ballistics than the super heavy shell fired by the 16-inch guns found on an Iowa Class Battleship.
HE spam and walls of torp skill. Everyone rightly goes on about cv's and subs but reign in the HE gatling gun spam and torp walls of skill. Entire fleets don't have 100's of torps to fire let alone a single dd. Also the smoke mechanic sucks a$$! It might be an arcade game but for $r!sts sake, some physics need to be adhered to.
yep , ya can't fight a cloud spewing fire.
Even if you eliminate subs and cvs the passive game style will remain and in fact will be worse . Why ?? Because the 80% of player base are cowards and stupid waitting for the other to take risks and spot. Cowards will always be cowards.
Maybe you're right, but in the wrong sense. The players who favour active gameplay have all quit or become passive because there's no benefit to themselves for doing so. The passive players thrive in the current environment so they stay on.
At least if things are fixed (however that may happen) active gameplay would become possible at anything other than the highest skill levels.
Also, way to ignore the point that overmatching BBs are equally problematic as subs, torp spam DDs, and CVs
I disagree. People still want to shoot things, it’s why they play the game. They just don’t want to get annihilated the instant they fire. With CV’s passive spotting they don’t even have to fire to be spotted, so they get sent back to port without even firing a shot. Subs are not an issue.
You're 100% right!
As a mostly BB main player I definitely agree with this, but I believe it is a mixture of things that are causing the issues we currently have. BB players rely on DD or CV to spot for them, but they have their own issues. DD's entire defense is not being spotted or being in smoke. Well, WG has destroyed that with CV spotting constantly as well as many new ships added that have radar. Cruisers are suppose to help defend them, but BB's now have massive range and so much overmatch power against them that with all that spotting they are deleted quickly. So, you have a cascade effect that either your team dies out quickly or, as often happens, an entire team sits in the back of their spawn sniping or behind islands HE spamming until the last 5 - 7 minutes of the match where they all push finally.
Saying that, I will say that CV's are at an advantage. No one pushes so they almost always live until the end of the game. 85% of their planes WILL make is through AA defenses to hit you, even if you have 2 other ships right beside you and you are all blasting away at the planes. There simply isn't a good counter to them until late game when most of their team is dead and you can finally hunt them down. Until then, they have free reign to hit and spot you over and over again without having a down side to any of it.
Add to that so many Bb players forget their purpose is to offer another option for the enemy to shoot at. Instead they kite away as an attack strategy they let their team take the brunt while they sit at range
I thought a while a go that a CV should be required to be moving at a certain speed to launch and recover aircraft. If a CV was required to be doing 20+
knots all game, It would be a target a lot more. No CV can drop anchor and conduct flight ops.
I'd like to note that 12KM radars are much more of an issue than CV spotting, at least when it comes to DD spotting, most DDs get spotted from air within a distance of roughly 3km (You practically have to be ontop of them), though some notable exceptions like Kleber exists(4.4km with conceal module and Concealment Expert). Usually when you spot a DD with your planes, it is not on purpose but rather coincidence. And you don't usually exit the match with 85% of your planes remaining, certainly not if you are at any point at a disadvantage in terms of which side has more boats alive, the only kind of carriers that could potentially end a match like that would be something like Malta which explicitly has fast plane regen as one of it's niches. People also tend to not actively play in a way that counters CVs, I.e clumping up together to maximize AA, which would happen in a dedicated push, which would also be difficult to handle for a CV under any circumstances. In fact BBs sitting in the back playing this passive sniping meta are infact exposing themselves to CV players by being nice and isolated, and ofc also slow and big(easier to hit).
@DaneTheInsane675 I agree, there is no reason for 12 km radar anywhere, or 13 km torps, and I love my 13 km torps
Overmatch is something a majority of players know nothing about. 2-tier MM and the sheer power found at T10 is reason enough for the passive gameplay, and it is often rewarded with wins as the first team that has the impatient lambs to sacrifice generally loses.
loose over match , and reign in wall of skills and put a reload on them that actually allows counter play rather than just eating wall 2 3 and 4 on the way to the target.
Tiers should play against thier own tier. Not tier 5 gets upti tier 7 etc. I was ahing a tier 7 cruiser 16km range after all the flags and stuff, wiped out by BBs 30km away at the border, they reach me I cant get them at all
Players: OMG, this meta is so passive, everybody is sniping from the back.
Also players: omg, Libertad is so OP.
3:32 I don't think it's overmatch stopping the close play it's torps and dds ...with 4 dds a sub or two and the CV in play there is no sneaking anywhere and the sea is uber thick with torps
Yes, to Short it down. nobody pushes, BBs dont push because of Torps, Cruisers wont push because half BB overmatch half Torps, DDs cant push because they get spotted by Subs or CV, get focused down and neither have counterplay against subs nor CVs, Can't hunt the sub inside enemy lines and can't leave AA on cause it spots you nonstop. and at this point we already ignore Radars or other DDs. so if nobody wants to start pushing, sure as hell nobody is gonna push if they dont have the Absolute majority on a flank.
Kinda sounds like the game is unintentionally mirroring real life were ships and guns kept getting bigger and bigger as each nation one-uped the other except the reason for it in the game is a developer that has no original ideas beyond "give us money for bigger and more guns".
You are way overthinking this.
Moronic monkeys camp because they are idiots.
Had a game tho morning where 6 TX BBs and a TX CA spent 15 minutes hiding behind islands where I (aDD) had killed the only DD on our side of the map, severely damaged the Conq with torps, and a Yam was hiding behind an island. They would not push at all, even when the impressive lead we had was being whittled away.
We only won because one of the two enemy DDs went insane and shot, was spotted and his last 100 hp was removed.
It’s passive because morons cannot see when they have a large advantage and move to lock in the win.
After the game only one of our BBs was above a 49% WR, the rest were horrible players.
Ive never had issues with CV or SS. SS torps are usualy pretty easy to dodge, after they ping you, you know where torps are comin from. And CV is only a problem if you charge in alone.
Random is total misery these days. 90% of matches are 1 sided wipes, as soon as 1 teams DD's just self terminate themselves by running into the CV planes. BB's ASW is utter trash why do the secondarys on every ship not shoot at periscopes like they would in real life. The CV rework is desperately needed since we now have hybrid BB's and Cruisers. Only fun in the game is brawls operations ranked ect.
On the one hand they are giving BBs which are rushing and making game less passive, on the other hand, everyone is running away to stay out of secondaries and making game even more passive
When have Tier 10 matches not been relatively passive? Everything about that tier severely punishes overextended ships. You do have to play somewhat passive until you find an opening to exploit.
Subs are not quite dearh machines, but you do have to do stupid things relative to enemy surface ships in order to not be whittled down by an effective sub driver.
This is exactly why the match maker ends up putting 6 battleships and 2 CVs on each team. They’ve buffed the snot out of those classes and nerfed the crap out of everything else.
The gimmick creep is causing the need for better team communication but that area of the game is not advancing. Example: chat msgs from the red team spam the chat box leaving it useless for allied communication.
I also seriously think that the neglect of brawlers, looking specifically at the main line German BB's. There is no real advantage to playing a brawler, it is literally a coin flip and isn't viable. I think if WG actually improved brawling ships (e.g. a slight buff to the accuracy and dispersion or maybe even range to the main line German BB's) it would encourage players to try out different styles of play and hopefully decrease this meta. If people see that brawling is effective and viable, more players will want to try it out rather than sit at the back of the map all day.
my proposal for changes to ranked battles: allow only the top 3 players from both teams to advance, or 3 from the winning team and 1 from the losing team. the current rules promote weak and passive players. ranked battles are ranked only in name. also, access to ranked battles is limited to owners of at least one ship branch.
I feel like with the exception of the Yammy/Slava type of BBs, reduce range by a few Km’s off the range of 90% of ships’ guns and radars and see what happens.
Most of the other BBs may have the range, but those shots are low percentage shots. Unlikely to hit. Now bad players will of course continue to spend all day plinking away, but I find CV presence (passive spotting) and DD count to be the biggest reason’s not to push. I push into back line BBs all the time, and they seldom win.
Due to my physical limitations i just play coop matches. I have tried battleships but can't' get them to work. That said i prefer cruisers 1st, destroyer's 2nd and carrier's 3rd. I mainly run the Des Moines, Gearing and Malta. Some battles i survive, some I don't. I enjoy the game because it is a distraction for me.
Power creep is a real problem. It’s inevitable in the lifecycle of any game. All you can do is mitigate it with counters. Which they have tried to do
Superships was the dumbest thing WG ever came up with. Completely killed high tier randoms. Add in subs and the already hated CVs and you have a recipe for ppl just heading into Ops or Asyms, which in turn will only keep ppl playing for a limited period of time before bored.
Heres whats ruining the game in no particular order: Ship imbalances (play the Meta or lose), CV/Sub player skill imbalances (team with better Cv or Sub players has a significant advantage), Non skilled based matchmaking (teams getting steam rolled d2 significant skill dispariities leads to games that just arent fun)
Camping can get old. Especially when you see 2 BB's and 3 Cruisers trying to get behind the same tiny island and one player constantly pointing it out and calling them cowards in chat and completely ignoring the stealth torping DD or sub on the flank. It's even worse when it happens in Brawls and Ranked. Gimmicks like airstrikes can force players from behind an island, but a lot of times they'll just sit there and take it. I feel like the gimmicks are going to force players to start considering what they're going up against. Like a DD player checking for radar in the loading screen or a BB trying to stick with a DD or ship with sub surveillance when there's a sub on the flank. There's a lot to consider in a match and it can get old trying to find all the ways you can get sunk. Personally, I've been playing Operations a lot more because sometimes I just want to get a bit brawly and blow shit up without thinking too much about it.
As a cruiser enjoyer, battleships are op, i hate them more than any sub or cv. One guy had a go at me because i am dead right at the start of the game, a cv came to fly by and spot me, and a satsuma shot me once and 100% to dead in one shot, and to this guy it was all my fault.
I did they that to a yoshino in my shima. 1 salvo 100% HP in less than a minute into the game. That shit should not be possible. CV should not be able to spot right from the start. Let the teams get in some workable position. Today my CV saved my a.s, I was in my Moskva, focused from the start, Essex covered me in smoke. Thanks for that. But rarely you find a player to play teams.
i think one thing that has been overlooked is to many have no clue how to actually play the ship they have. mostly i think new players as they pop radar or sonar long before anything in range and makes no sense. subs only an issue if u dont pay attention. i have chased down i dont know how many subs with my halland or shima. u may notice to dd without hydro or sub detection ability. my issue is still the amount of no skill needed cv play. also another thing is to many assume u have to shoot from range with bb. i still get my thunderer into point blank fights and that has no damn armor to speak of. the game has no tactics or strategy because on top of it all they have added super op dd that dont need torps to be a pain in the ass. they have hydro-radar and smoke with fast reloads so u have no chance in a dd to run. when in my dd i get bitched at for not spotting even though i am 15km ahead of the team and often under 10km from radar cruisers. so many factors but i think the big one is no skill players as they seem to be a lot of them now
Being 2x uptiered all the time sucks most. Who needs say TVII ships anymore when you get constantly matched up against TIX?! The whole thing is a mess.
This is definitely a part of the problem and a big contributor to frustration levels. The difference between ships that are two tiers apart is quite large. I personally think they need to either make it that all games are your tier only, or at least 1 tier difference. Not 1 tier higher AND lower, because that is what we have now. Just 1 tier max (such as 7's and 8s)
I would disagree and just say people don’t k ow how to play. I say this because they hide in brawls even when it’s cruiser v cruiser or cruiser v dd and so on and you have brawls even that last till the timer runs out. Every game no matter what it’s the new player way to just head for the nearest island and sit.
if yall played cv a bit you would have realized this a year ago lol. CV and sub contribute to it more? yes. But so do 4 minute poor DD players, these high cal BBs, etc.
Cruiser armors back in the day were much better than current state of the game. Why? Well, back then there were only 2 BB lines. USN and IJN. Cruisers are armored enough to sustain up to 419s. Store of balanced. Then WG add German BBs that have a gun of 420mm. But have 32s asa. Downsides. That’s fine, GK 420 back in the day isn’t that popular as people prefer the 406s because better DPM. (yes, GK back then was the Og German tech tree that have a gun choice of 406s and 420s). Then, the introduction of British BBs. These guys have okay AP with good HE. Back then Thunderer and Conqueror are the same ship. 457mm and 419mm respectively. People prefers 419 because it had more guns and back then more guns = good. But that’s fine, 419mm can’t pen 30mm so Cruisers are save. Then comes the French, again not crazy big caliber guns. Not enough to hurt Cruisers. Then you have the Russki BBs. 457 with Vodka level of traverse speed and Belt armor that have more steel than entire of USSR T-34 production. And back then, Russian BBs have Radar. These are very special radar. They have 15km based range and only spotted Cruisers, Battleships and Carriers. It was insanely broken back in the day to the point WeeGee remove it.
Everything went down hill from there. We have Thunderer, which is a cash grab from WeeGee of making a “New Ship” by removing 457 from Conquerer and place on Conquerer hull and make it a premium. Then they make GK as a premium and replace it with Prussian, Preussan? Whatever. From what WeeGee said “Consistency” despite the game isn’t consistent anyway afterwards.
For a very long time, WG promised that they will not adding more ships that surpass Yamato gun caliber. Then, they broke the promise by introducing Shikishima. Back then, community is on fire. Some are welcome this Super Yamato while others just very angry that WeeGee break their promises. I’m the middle child of the group who is thrilled to see Super Yamato but also angry that WG break the promise. Then you know the rest. Satsuma and Hannover. 2 Overmatch BBs. Then German BC 420.
Tbh, I was draw my final straw on Shikishima. I never trust WG again ever since they introduced Shikishima.
They should keep subs and carriers in game and make a separate arena for them for players to chose which game style they prefer.
in my opinion, what needs to happen is an easing of the Damage Control Party consumable. It it way too overtaxed right now. You use it for fires, flooding, sub pings, damages modules, rudder, prop. Its overworked.
my 3 things that need to happen:
1) just as flooding was nerfed back in the day, fires need to be nerfed. The way i would do it, the first fire deals 100% damage, the second fire deals 75% damage, the third fire deals 50% damage, the forth deals 25% damage. That way if you get multiple fires, its not the end of the world.
2) I would have the repair party have a brief burst of DCP at the beginning to put out fires, flooding, pings, control modules, the likes. You can time out your heals and your DCPs to the best effectiveness.
3) Lastly, I would have it so that fires actually allow for greater healing to occur. If you take a fire, and have a repair party consumable, the fire adds 10% health back to the repair party, effectively making it so that when you use your repair party, you can gain health back.
What a ridiculous set of ideas.
@teebob21 wow... thanks for adding about as much construction to this conversation as a woke college student. how about you actually make a point instead of throwing insults. if you can't do that, you can kiss my a$$
Lets not forget 30 torp spamming destroyers every 2 mins
tell me one destroyer that can spam 30 torps in 2 mins.
@@MP-mq7mc Shima.
@@MP-mq7mc That would be the La Pampa that releases tomorrow
There IS a single thing that's responsible for all the woes in the game...
...that DAMN spreadsheet!
When is no CVs nether Subs in the match the play style is the same camping so must be another problem.
At higher tiers if some one rushes in front it gets deleted in 20 seconds because everyone gonna focus on that ship.
And what do we get?... La Pampa a 30 torp DD. Had a game in DD the other day where WE had the clear spotting advantage so we should have been the aggressors. However my team made a small circle and wouldn't leave.
I wonder If starting the game with all ships already moving forward would change peoples play styles
You didn't even mention the proliferation of radar on destroyers, cruisers and battleships. Too many capable of using stealth radars so every destroyer hangs back and refuse to spot because once they are spotted they are instantly killed. Once spotted, planes can keep them spotted, or even if they do use smoke any of the many radar ships can close with and spot them with radar, then nearly instant death to the spotted destroyer. The same is true for smoke using cruisers and Smoke using battleships. Do away with lock-on for every ship that is not itself spotting with their personal sensor platform,( their radar, their sonar, their spotting planes, their visual detection etc.) Show the ship on the mini-map but only allow it to be locked onto with gun sights from a ship that actually is spotting it. The increased dispersion from not having a lock on would increase the survivability of the small ships who could once again feel more safe about spotting.
Limit the number of battleships in the game as there is often too many capital ships compared to the smaller ships, and stop allowing sonar and radar to work through islands.
And this is why we play T6, T7, T8 and sometimes T9. Because you get real ships without all the gemmicks. The game is still playable.
They will never fix the bug with shells having a mind of their own , landing all over the place, esp near islands. If there is a bug with cvs or subs it is fixed the next day. No new maps for ages as well , they just punp out new ships that make the old ones obsolete. Money , money , money....
The answer is $$$. Premium ships = dollars. Once the player base is saturated with premiums, add a new class and/or tech tree line, then MORE premiums.
ALERT ALERT! Sorry for the caps but I really need to know if a enemy ship was using a cheat or not and here is what happened yesterday… I was in the BB Devastation and the other ship was the BB Main I had my nose pointed at him and it was just me and 2 enemy ships. The Main was almost at max firing range and so was I he also had his nose pointed at me and every shot he took knocked out a turret and I hit repair and I would fire and get 2 pens and then he would fire again and take out my turret and soon as I could I hit repair so now I have both turret’s back until he fired again and destroyed one turret so it was my turn to fire and and got one or two pens again then he fired again and took out the other turret and I’m thinking how is this player from a long distance able to take out both front turret’s so I fired again but it was from the back turret and I got one pen and it sunk him and to get the other ship I had to sail in reverse. My question is could this player been using a cheat software that helped him take out both front turrets from about the max distance? Please answer I need to know? Thank you
Hello. I have no knowledge of cheatmods! But, one thing to keep in mind: if any BB is likely to be able to do this it's Maine! American BBs have slow shells with high air drag coefficients, so that at max range they are dropping almost vertically. This makes them tough to lead at moving targets which are traveling across their line of sight, but much easier to aim at bow in targets. The American BBs have some of the most consistent shells and the best vertical dispersion at range of any BB, especially the higher tier American BBs which have access to the accuracy mod in slot 6. Added to this Maine has a lot of shells! Perhaps not that surprising for it to knock out turrets as you describe, even at that range.
Git gud