Which Home Workshop Laser Cutter Engraver is Right For You. CO2 or Diode?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- I was recently sent an Ortur LM3 20W Diode laser cutter engraver for review. I wanted to compare the features, strengths and weaknesses of both the Ortur Diode Laser and my own 10 year old CO2 laser so you could assess which style of laser might suit you in your own workshop. And, just for clarity, I am not receiving any commissions or payments for creating this video.
If you think that the Ortur LM3 might interest you, check out the links below.
Ortur LU3-20A: www.amazon.com/dp/B0C5MKWXXC
Final Price: ＄999.99
💞Surprise: Order 20W Machine from amazon and then contact support1_ortur@163.com to get big promotion code for YRR2.0 (10PCS), laser material box (10PCS) and honeycomb laser bed (10PCS). First come, first served!
US Module(LU3-20A): www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6MCJS6S
Final price: ＄599
Ortur.net: s.zbanx.com/r/7Ay70iVVXdp9
Page Coupon: GET200 (with $200 off)
Final price: $999.99
Module(LU3-20A):s.zbanx.com/r/rkiDK1dyBRmq
Final price: $549.99 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You went the whole time without saying it. "A fricken laser". I'm impressed.
Some of us are not “sick to death of info and reviews”.
I have a very limited space and budget and am most interested in all the latest releases and technologies.
Mark is providing a service to those who are in the pursuit of varied product experience and observations.
If this is not to your tastes and entertainment desires possibly you could release your own enlightened video productions and compliment the excellent material that he consistently provides for us!
The switch at the back (YRR) is to enable the rotary optional accessory, and that's what that extra cable is for.
You don't need to rig up a red-dot laser, just use the built-in LightBurn "Fire" button, and/or the offset function.
I had guessed that there wold be an interface for the rotary axis but it wouldn't have been too hard to just label the socket as "rotary axis".
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark,
Great ( honest) comparison mate 👏👏
Like you, I’m a ‘generalist’ hobbyist ( albeit with a ‘specialisation’ in live steam locos).
So….. anything I can learn about processes, tools, equipment used in manufacturing….. I love 🥳
Never stop learning eh?
Thanks for going ‘off piste’ and doing this review.
Regards
Robert
Hi Mark!
Thanks for the hard work on the channel!
I have 5W budget blue light laser, makes a very fine beam. It will remove blue dykem leaving a nice layout if you are so inclined.
Take care!
M
Mark, please excuse the rude comments. Thank you for your honest, intelligent, review. I learned a lot (even from the negative comments)
Thanks. I sort of knew that this video would be controversial. It won't be a regular thing though.
Regards,
Mark
Hi from Canada Mark.
I haven’t commented for awhile but I never miss a broadcast.
I love all your projects and presentations and am quite touched by your choice of shirts today.
Please keep up the good work.
I think I’m already on your pin map but if not I’m from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Thanks. I do have Edmonton pinned on the map. We did a road trip along the Icefields Parkway starting in Calgary but we didn't do the side trip to Edmonton. We loved the scenery and although we didn't see any bears or moose it was still a stunning landscape. Certainly different to where we live. We had hoped to do another visit this year but the crazy cost of airfares killed that off. We wanted to see the east coast and Prince Edward Island. We will do it when things settle down. That will be our third trip to Canada. I hope the fires are under control now. We are just entering our bushfire season and it could be a bad one this year.
Regards,
Mark
Here for the cutting edge content!
Thanks, appreciate the honest assessment.
Thx, great video
Great review.😇
Thanks for the info on the laser cutter engraver Mark, that was very useful. They are starting to become a requirement in the home metal/wood shop if you want to expand into more complex creations on a budget. I have looked at them in the past, but it may need to wait as I have spend a bit of money lately.
I know, new metal lathe, new wood lathe.... What's next!
Thank you, Mark - a helpful review without the hype one sometimes sees. Even with the work you had to put into it, I’d say you got a great deal on that 50W laser!
Thanks. The problem with the CO2 laser was that I was really taking a gamble since I didn't know if it could actually be made to work. However, the brains of the machine is really the digital signal processor and once that is replaced, as long as all the steppers and drivers work and the laser PSU is OK it should fire right up. The original vendor shipped us a machine that needed a dongle to unlock the encrypted digital signal processor. I am fairly sure he sent us the incorrect dongle and try as I might I couldn't get any help out of the guy. The entire machine was given up as a lost cause eventually and I was able to purchase it basically for scrap price a few years later.
Regards,
Mark
Love the Banff T-shirt (I'm from Calgary but have two brothers who've lived their adult lives in Melb.)!
Thanks. We loved Banff, in fact all of Canada. It is so different to here in what we call the "wide brown land". We started our road trip up the Icefields Parkway from Calgary. Never did see a bear but it doesn't matter. 😁
Regards,
Mark
Love the T-shirt. Ontario (Ottawa) loves Alberta (and Ozz)
Thanks. We visited Ottawa (and Quebec City) a few years ago. We planned to go back this year but the airfares are really crazy at present. The next time we want to do the East Coast. Prince Edward Island looks like an amazing place.
Regards,
Mark
Gday Preso, good honest review, I was offered the 20w laser module for the ender 3 printer but knocked it back, I wasn’t sure if it was something I would use very often at all, thanks for sharing mate, cheers
Most of the older generation 3D printers in particular are not going to do a good job of engraving as the axis are set up for slower movement, typically CO2 Lasers will run this at 2-400mm/sec+. Diode Lasers are also sub par when it comes to cutting compared to CO2, still ok for making card templates or light timber ones but that is about it. The Plus side to a Diode LAser in a mainly metal shop like yours is maybe vector engraving/marking with multiple passes on your ender but larger rasters will suck for speed.
Thanks Matty. I hope your treatment is going well. Rest and recover I say! I am not sure that the diode laser will get a lot of use here but it is a useful backup if my big CO2 machine is out of service. I am getting about two requests per week to to product reviews and as tempting as it is I don't think I will be doing any more. They take too long to make.
Regards,
Makr
I've seen a few youtubers who have had similar lasers mount them to a piece of plywood and hang them from a hinge on the wall, so when not in use it folds down against the wall. They had legs that were also hinged that swung out from the wall to hold the plywood level. One of them also added barrel bolts to lock the legs to the top.
That would work. I think that the compact form factor is the biggest drawcard for this style of diode laser but what I really want is a fiber laser. Let's hope they become more affordable soon!
Regards,
Mark
I’m sore tempted, but enjoy my Gorton pantograph engraver too much. Your felt example hurt, though. I recently turned some steel punches just to make felt washers.
Fortunately, I’m as short of wall space as horizontal surfaces, or your storage comment would be costing me money!
Great content as always. Thanks from the left coast of the US.
I bet there are some good pantograph engravers on the second hand market now. I used to take work to an engraver when I was teaching and we wanted medallions engraved. I loved looking around at the old school equipment they used back then. I think those machines had a soul!
Regards,
Mark
Okay.... time to buy a laser! Where will I put it? Nice comparison mate! Thanks!
Fair comments Presso! Personally I would certainly welcome more videos of this type. Fair play regarding the disclosure but I wouldn't mind you getting some sort of kick-back, I doubt it would compromise your standing or integrity amongst your audience - however that decision is obviously your own.
I declined the offer to take a commission for sales of the Ortur Laser. I don't think it's fair to do so without detailing exactly what the financial arrangement would be. I did however end up monetising my videos with TH-cam since they were going to place advertisements in my content anyway. My first months payment came in this week and I will be donating it to a wildlife rescue charity called Wilvos. I will be mentioning it in an upcoming video. Thanks for watching.
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark. I think the review of Co2 and diode machines was a little limited. On cutting material with the diode machine I would suggest placing the material on a wafer board under the laser to allow the air assist to work effectively. When pacing material on a steel bench the laser beam and air assist cannot work as intended.
Another issue that needed to be addressed is the cost of replacement of a CO2 glass tube and the realignment of the laser beam beam. These tube"s are some what expensive and very fragile and if their alignment is out with the mirrors one can spend hours correcting it.
A) The diode laser will give a great area of work as one can guide material under the frame ( yes you noted a larger frame can be obtained) but all one needs to do is side the material under the machine using a guide jig then resting the start point.
B) The review only partly address the prototype benefits of each machine. Which machine would provide the best value for prototype manufacture of jigs, parts, patterns etc.
C) Cost value for money: does the CO2 perform better taking into account the costs of running and maintenance To the Diode laser.
D) Parts are the readily available for both.
If it takes you hours to align the mirrors you are not doing it right.
You are on the money when it comes to air assist. It's more important for good cutting than many people think. Good flow and pressure makes a lot of difference.
I had to reduce the scope of the comparison to keep the video length reasonable. One of the requirements for the supplier was that the video be around 20 minutes. I realise that there are lots of other areas that need to be considered when choosing between the two styles of laser. I spent about a day tuning the mirrors on my CO2 laser and I checked them again a few days ago and they are still aimed accurately which did actually surprise me. My glass tube is the original that was supplied with the machine and despite a near death experience when I failed to start the water cooler it still seems to be in good health. If I do have to replace it I will upgrade to an 80W tube. It will mean having to modify the cabinet to take the longer tube though.
Regards,
Mark
i also use the Prusa instruction manual as the gold standard- i’ve shown the manual to my previous employer and to randoms as it really is good and well thought out. my only suggestion to prusa is that instead of all the parts being black (or orange) print each piece in a different colour so when assembling it makes it easier to see, it’s hard to pick up detail in the printed instructions when they’re all black.
Yes, it was a joy to use and the little packet of Haribo sweets that came with it was an incentive to keep going with the assembly.
Regards,
Mark
Two of your best statements: "Manage your expectations", "You know you want a laser, buy one"
Hi very informative will this cut leather ok cheers
My 50W CO2 laser will but I didn't try leather on the Ortur laser. I am guessing it will work OK but maybe only on thin stock or by using multiple passes.
Creality Pro 3D printers have a changeable printer head that can be replaced with their laser cutter - engraver head would be good for a review perhaps as maybe it can fit other machines. Any chance of a look into this aspect.
Great review.
Thanks Mark
Very helpful thank you. However my interest is more in cutting metal, what sort of metal can it cut and how thick. Im really only looking for shim type thickness say 0.2mm max, would either of these systems do that?
You will need a fiber laser to cut or at least ablate metal. At present, even the cheapest fiber lasers are at least $1200 and they have a very small working area. A more capable MOPAR machine will set you back $30K. The cheaper fiber lasers can engrave metal directly but the MOPAR machines can cut through thin aluminium or brass stock after many many passes. I think they will become cheaper and more accessible over then next couple of years though. We shall just have to be patient.
Regards,
Mark
It seems like that form factor would allow you to set the unit on a substrate larger than the xy constraints. So correct me if I'm wrong, in theory you could burn on larger sheet goods, or set a straight edge as a guide and reposition the unit to create a banner style burn.
Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Yes, you could absolutely do that as long as you could offset the machine accurately. If you weren't bothered about continuing a cut or an engraving it wouldn't be so critical. A lot of CO2 lasers have "feed through doors front and back so you can work on materials longer than the Y axis of the machine. Mine doesn't have that capability though.
Regards,
Mark
Nice review. In addition to what you allready mentioned.....a blue diode will not cut engrave transparent acryl but it also does not cut engrave blue acryl plastic. To engrave any metal you could get an 1064nm infrared diode module ( about 500dollar) . A blue diode does only work on stainless and the engraving is only discoloration. Ortur does not have a infrared module but Atomstack and X tool do....those laser engravers would be a better choice if you want an engraver that does a lot more. While those low power infrared diode lasers do not engrave as deep and as fast as a real fiber laser on metal....it does engrave on a lot bigger metal surface ( 3 to 5000 dollar desktop fiber laser are mostly limited to a working area about 4x4 inches or 8x8 inches max) .
I am hoping that fiber lasers will become affordable before I am too old to enjoy them. I think the price point is trending down but still outside my budget. I was able to use a CO2 Versalaser which we had at our school for about two years. It is one of the best I have used and it was quiet, safe and fast. They had an air cooled steel tube and the moving mirror and lens was very light so it had excellent acceleration and deceleration. Unfortunately, they cost as much as a new car or at least they did when we first got it.
Regards,
Mark Presling
The XTool does have a lot of advantages, such as a 40 watt head and the infrared head as he mentions. They’ve recently come out with a new infrared head.
With your network/WiFi in the shop take a look at DLink AV2 1000 Ethernet over Power. Saves having to muck around with running Cat6 cables. My shed is 30m from the House and it works great.
We have some issues with the Wifi in the house and that in turn means that it's a bit flaky in the shed as well. Usually a reboot of the WiFi extender solves the problem. I have another extender in the shed and when the stars align I do have Wifi over there, just not at the time I was making that video. I have seen those EOP units and they look tempting. I have a cupboard full of WiFi tech that I have tried and discarded over the years. My son said he will take a look next time he is over here but he lives in New Zealand so it could be a while. I should just bite the bullet and spend money on a good network guy.
Regards,
Mark
Interesting I have an Otur Lm3 and finding it a bit limited have recently built my own large 100w Co2 laser and did a few videos on my YT channel they have very different cutting capabilities and speeds. I found the small air nozzle on my 10W LM3 to be virtually useless on my machine it actually clouded up the lens quicker.
I am not ready to give up my 50W CO2 laser even though it is noisy, big and sort of dangerous. I think the biggest drawback with the diode laser is it's inability to cut clear materials. I use a lot of clear acrylic in my projects and I would find it frustrating if I couldn't cut it or engrave it. However the Ortur is small and compact. It could potentially have a bigger cutting area than my big laser. The next time I have to replace the tube in my CO2 I will probably upgrade to an 80W tube but that will mean having to build an extension box on the side of the cabinet.
Regards
Mark
So what are your thoughts on making gaskets ? Repair of old crap would like to find an easy way to make them
I generally like to laser cut any gaskets I need. If you can scan the face of the part or get a good digital photo, you can create a vector drawing of the outlines and the scale it to suit. I generally use Corel Draw but Inkscape is good too. Even Fusion360 would be fine. Just paste the jpg image and then trace around it. Hole centres are easy to find and then pick a reference edge and scale. It's easy to print off the vector drawing on ordinary printer paper to check the size and alignment and if it all fits you can laser cut from just about any gasket material except metal.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for posting 5his comparison video. One thing that keeps me from seriously looking at a laser cutter is concerns about the fumes/ vaporized particles they create. Is that a true concern, especially it metals are being cut?
Thanks
Neither of the two lasers I featured will cut metal. Acrylic is one of the plastics that can give off nasty fumes. I vent my CO2 laser exhaust straight out of my workshop rolladoor. It has a quite powerful fan inside the cabinet and you can clamp a flexible duct onto it if you need to vent out of a window or a basement workshop. The Ortur doesn't have any provision for fume extraction although there are some aftermarket solutions available.
Regards,
Mark
Have you done a vid on that CO2 laser rebuild?
No unfortunately. The initial work was done before I even started on TH-cam and many of the other improvements have been sort of incremental upgrades. The biggest improvement was to repaint the sheet metal covers. The original beige paint was sprayed directly over the bare steel and a few years after I took possession of it the paint bubbled up and started to lift off the steel which had gone rusty underneath. I stripped most of the original beige panels, treated the rust and resprayed in 2K orange paint. The original charcoal paint is still OK though. I suspect it is actually powdercoat.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks, Mark. Been wondering about the difference. As I recall, the CO2 wavelength is about 10x longer than the diode laser. So a diode diffraction limited focal spot should be 1/10th the diameter. Implying more energy in a thinner kerf.
Cheers-Peter
Focusing and lenses are a thing you can change on the CO2 laser, and have no influence on (except height) on the diode.
My diode laser as a very fine spot size but only over a comaratively short distance.
I have seen CO2 lasers use differnt lenses to have slightly larger spot but for much longer distance.
The vendor did send me some specifications for the 20W diode chip. In one part it mentioned a spot size of 8 microns and then a bit further on it mentioned 12 X 15 microns. So I don't know which is correct. My CO2 laser does seem to have a nice fine kerf as long as you focus it accurately. The beam diverges as it travels through the stock so for some applications you need to flip vector shapes over to ensure that the largest surface will be on top or on the outside of something like a box fabrication.
Regards,
Mark
That was really good. I had no idea there were different lasers available. The C02 laser looked a little like something from a James Bond movie, though, and I’m not sure I’d want a monstrosity like that unless I was trying to cut Sean Connery or diamonds in half. (Kidding. But the added size and power doesn’t seem to scale the capacity proportionately.) We need a YT channel dedicated to reviewing instruction manuals. I can contribute several.
Thanks. The C02 laser cutter/engraver machine size is largely dictated by the length of the glass tube and therefore the power. A 100W tube can be 1.25 metres long and that means a very large chassis for the tube mounts. If you are going to have a chassis that long you may as well scale the Z and Y axes proportionally. There are some new generation CO2 lasers appearing on the market that have a smaller form factor and some of the high end air cooled steel tube CO2 lasers like the Versalaser are smaller but they are the price of a new car. Overall, I am quite happy with my bulky old CO2 laser but if I were just getting into laser work the smaller and more compact diode laser would be a good starting point.
Regards,
Mark
Ciao Mark, a part for the Z-Axis, i think that it's a nice machine, unfortunately Ortur replied that my channel does not have the characteristics to test one of its lasers, perhaps they believe that testing a laser is more difficult than making a fine pitch thread ... but it doesn't matter anyway other companies believed and still believe in my channel so I don't make a problem of it, instead it's interesting to understand how TH-cam evaluates the fact of doing reviews every now and then, in my case a bit penalizing but I'll see the next video how it goes!! Ciao Mark, have a nice week!! Alberto
Thanks Alberto. This video took nearly four times longer than my usual videos. Immediately after I uploaded this one I was contacted to ask if I wanted to review a "more powerful laser" and a 3D printer. I declined. I really want to get back to my own projects.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 The 2W infrared (1064 nm) and 40W blue (400-450 nm) diode lasers definitely have some interesting use cases. The 1064 nm, at least from the standpoint of marking metal, bridges the gap between the blue diode lasers and the fiber lasers (in the same spectrum as fiber modules, but much less power and much less cost). The 40W blue units still do not come close to the speed of CO2 lasers, but they narrow that gap and have a much larger work area than a CO2 unit of comparable cost.
theres nothing automatically wrong with product reviews/adverts whatever, its about how its done. How you’ve done it is fine with me.
Thanks. I am a bit wary of getting locked into the machine/tool review cycle. Straight after I published this one I was offered a more powerful laser and a 3D printer. I declined!
Regards,
Mark
Take it on the bus you say!
Not on my bloody bus mate 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
Earlier iterations of this Ortur 20w sold for $350 USD as recently as 2022
yea I remember those too but as I recall the frame for them was just pure crap. This one looks more like the X2 in its build quality. Plus the YT marketing campaign has been quite successful so they can raise the prices :)
Given that you can buy a very good 3D printer which has many of the same components for sub $300 it seems like the retail price for diode lasers is artificially high. The number of manufacturers and vendors out there now for these machines seems to be growing exponentially so maybe the prices will have to come down as the market shrinks.
Regards,
Mark Presling
@@Preso58 I have a wedding coming up and really wanted to get one to make the table decorations etc, just can't pull the pin,. As soon as I do, it will be half price the following week.
Good comparison … however I disagree with you safety comments about the ortur laser, in my professional life i studied the effects of laser beams on the eye … and I have been using both the 1.5w and 10w ortur versions in my home shop. I would never use either one without some sort of cover, the diode laser used by this class of machine is a blue color and even secondary reflection can permanently damage the retina especially if you are engraving a reflective material like stainless. I should add the laser beam effects on the eye depends on the wavelength, the more blue the wavelength the lower power needed to do damage … alll of them need to be treated with respect
I did see that the enclosure for the Ortur was an accessory but I believe it is a rather flimsy thing. Since I didn't have one to show in the video I just sort of glossed over the diode laser energy. The good thing about the CO2 laser is that the clear acrylic cover of the top door absorbs 95% of the infra red wavelength.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I agree the ortur cover look flimsy and also seemed to me to be a bit pricey… I built a cover from thin plywood… it’s effective but clumsy
Hmm. don't agree on some parts of this.
The Orthur is a very pricy diode laser unit, and in my opinion you are better off buying a cheaper brand + Lightburn license.
On the safety aspects there are problems:
You don't mention the fumes and missing venting of the diode laser.
This is a major health hazard, especialy you let yourself be lead on by the sleek and home appliance look of the orthur.
These things CANNOT be used in an appartment, flat, living room, etc. You 100% need an enclosure and something that draws the smoke out. ESPECIALLY if you operate on materials other than wood. But even with wood, the smell and particle load is not an option for in-home use.
Also, I disagree on the notion that the ultraviolet lasers are less dangerous than CO2.
I would consider them at least the same if not more dangerous.
The UV of the laser will go everywhere normal light goes. If you can see it, it can blind you, period.
Normal glases from glas or polycarbonate or any transparent material will not protect you at all, unless its specifically designed laser protection glases that have extreme optical density on the specific wavelength of UV lasers.
In short: if you can look through it, it can't protect you. And if you really want to trust your eyesight to those cheap plastic goggles included with the machine is your business.
CO2 lasers are at least always in an enclosure, and are blocked by acrylic and normal glas is not transparent to CO2 laser light. That does not make it less dangerous, but certainly not more.
Those things are not toys. and should not be sold and used as happy-go-lucky as they are these days.
I did notice in one of the digital advertisements that there was a photo of a trendy looking millennial cooking his dinner with a diode laser sitting on the countertop as he was preparing food. Really? My CO2 laser has a large exhaust port on the back of the cabinet and I can just open the roller door and blast the fumes outside. Acrylic is one of the bad materials since the smoke will contain methyl methacrylate and causes nausea. However "mystery plastics" can be far worse if they contain formaldehyde, phenols or styrene and the like. As for the UV light from the blue laser diode, there is very little information in the documentation for the Ortur except for a recommendation to wear the supplied safety goggles.
Regards,
Mark
I am sick to death of 3D printer and Laser reviews. Every single channel has them.
Im uninterested in them as well. But will watch this review. I always seem to learn something here.
I know what you mean and I did think long and hard before agreeing to do this video. I don't think I will be doing any more. This video took me nearly four times longer than one of my regular contributions. I tend to be quite sceptical when I see someone extolling the virtues of something that they got for free. That's why I wanted to focus on the capabilities of both types of laser. It's a fine line between analysis and selling out!
Regards,
Mark
Chinese junk
Maybe but it's affordable. I once had the chance to use a Versalaser which was a CO2 laser cutter engraver with an air cooled steel tube. It was a superb machine but back at the time we were using it they cost upwards of $40,000. Trotec is another well made and supported machine but again they are way more expensive than a Chinese made machine. If money is no object and you are looking for something that will stand up to industrial machine cycles there are good machines to be had. For most home users though, that sort of price bracket is out of the question.
Regards,
Mark