Borthwick lost that match. Marcus Smith and Cunningham-South going great. He brings them off. And tells George Ford to 'bore' the game out. Can't do that against NZ 🙄. Could absolutely see ten minutes from end who was gonna win.
100% agree, he is so out of his depth it’s unbelievable and h has no more excuses. He obviously wanted to bring Ford on and win the match so he could start Ford against Aus and SA. A totally missed opportunity completely the fault of the coaches.
Your scores are good. But no one got a 9 from me. Both teams looked like losers against SA France and Ireland. Maybe they will by the end of the autumn series
Smith was doing well and had the feel of the game. I wouldn't change a fly half if they are playing well - it takes a while to get into the 'zone' after coming off the bench.
Southgate at least developed players, Borthwick is out here running out will Stuart, dan Cole,joe marler and a tom curry that is half the player he was in years gone by. While telling Marcus smith to play like Owen Farrell and playing ben earl at 8 when he doesnt play there for club.
that’s generally how rankings work. England is performing and has performed better than they should. No way in the WC they should have been within a point of SA, they should have lost to Fiji, they beat Ireland to stop the double grand slam, came within a score of beating France. Quite honestly if you aren’t happy with this after 2 years of Borthwick in charge you never will be. Better off turning off your tv or not going to the games.
Well RFU wanted a Englishman and well there's been little process when England come up against the southern hemisphere sides they come up short. A long way for this English squad to say they will be become a great team 🏉🏴🥴
Definitely not Smith missing 2 drop goals, or the creaky scrum intbhe last 15, or the missed penalty or ford missing a drop goal. This is such a stupid game. There's always many many factors.
He’s a defensive liability. Don’t think rugbyanalyst was watching closely enough to be honest. Regularly misses 1 on 1 tackles, did some really mental solo blitz defence at one point and yes of course arguably lost the game conceding that pointless no arm tackle penalty
As a Welsh fan, I thought England were bloody ballsy and they’re going to be a fantastic team soon… (I’m going to watch Wales Vs England in the 6N and I’m very worried). As soon as England get their attack and defensive alignment clicking, they’re going to be terrifying… especially unleashing the likes of Waboso. All in all, England could have easily been on the right side of the result today and I think the main issue was Borthwick removing two half backs who were controlling the game! Spencer was marshalling everyone fantastically in my opinion and Randall just looked entirely rattled when he came on.. I didn’t see the point in bringing someone like Randall on to see out a game
Stuart should get an 8 for holding the scrum up. Cunningham South should have scored an 8 too, monster power. Tom Curry didn't offer much apart from tackling fairly well. It's just not good enough considering our other options. Now he's got a central contract or whatever have we got another year of watching him lumbering about? Great. Very good point you make about the robotic use of subs Rich. You bring on Harry Randell and get him box kicking? Madness. Then bring on Ford who's been out for 2 months - and he misses his kicks - just dumb. Get the form players in like you promised SB, we need more pace and more line breakers. Freeman to 13, Slightholme on the Wing, Willis to 8, Hill on the bench. We could be so much better!!
Borthwick is Southgate 2. A bland, safe pair of hands, utter stupidity to put ford on, we ALL know he doesn't like tackling. Unforgivable attempt at a tackle from Ford.
Agree about Ford’s tackling…..abysmal, he always looks less than committed in that department. I think we have seen his last season in an England shirt. Fin Smith needs to be the natural sub or starter for Marcus Smith. Fin brings more attacking flair to the game than Ford and if they shared jerseys the RFU could save £ on jersey printing! 😂
The 2 problems with freeman on the wing are: 1: as you said, not a speedster, not an all out threat. Good all rounder. 2: we're wasting a wing position on freeman where we can put a real threat, sleightome, ibitoye, radwan?
That was Smiths best game for England by a mile. Hopefully this is what’s to come. Massive problem is front row particularly tight head. I think Baxter will come good in time.
George Ford getting all the blame, but the end of the day you have a squad of players not 15. The England wing that got sucked in and doubled up, leaving Genge against Tele'a was as guilty
Attack was clunky, hardly looked like scoring a try aside from the intercept. Defensively very 50/50, 2 of those three tries were easily preventable (Furbank shouldn't have bought in and Ford made a poor tackle attempt) and yet another winning position that England don't capitalise on and close out. Same old same old I'm afraid!
Furbank only made the tackle because not enough people had rotated. Genge and the next defender should have been covering the wing, allowing Furbank to drop back and cover. However, since no one was there, Furbank had to make the tackle, allowing the defender through. 9 times out of 10 if a fullback makes a tackle on the game line, the rest of the team has fucked up. Ford shouldn’t play if he’s not willing to make the cover tackle. I don’t care about missed kicks (though it wasn’t the hardest kick in the world) and drop goals, you can’t make them all. But if a player is unwilling to go low on a cover tackle, then they might as well hand the game to the opposition on a silver platter.
It hard to say but to take a player off if playing well in these games I know it's hard on the bench but don't change for change sake room for improvement
Wouldn’t quibble with any of your ratings, Rich. Except, maybe a 2 for Borthwick - who is now WAY out of his depth. And - you can bet - will not change a thing for the Boks game. If we had started Willis, Lozowski and Ibitoye, we would have won. If we had not pulled Smith and Spencer we might have won. If we’d had Opoku-F, Obano, Fin Smith and Hill (or Unders) on the bench, we could have consolidated our lead thru the final 10-12 minutes ….. but, due entirely to Super-Steve, of course we didn’t. We HAVE to get 13 right, and - much though I love the Tom Curry of old - we need Willis & Earl at 7 & 8.
I noticed Warburton saying at the end of the game that England fans should still be positive after that as England have learned from our last two games. How can we have learned anything, when we have lost 3 tests against NZ in the exact same fashion, in a row. Seriously disappointing to not have made any adjustments since the last two losses. Was a big defender of Borthwick. Now I don’t think he’s up to the job.
I’d have given Will Stuart an 8 Rich. He got penalties out of the New Zealand scrum and for the first time in a while the England scum looked rock solid with him there. That is his primary role.
You need not just good loose forwards, you need exceptional and quick. The Curry’s are in with the establishment but are it the deal Eng need. A crying shame Willis and Hill were overlooked again. I honestly still have doubts about SB. Shame also Mitchell was injured - and the Centers are also not top draw. The timing of the replacement front row was premature also, imho.
Top 3 players: Marcus Smith, Feyi Waboso, Cunningham-South. Honourable mention for Maro Itoje. Bottom 3 players: Ben Earl, George Ford, replacement props (Cole and Baxter). Ben Earl was really poor, outclassed by Ardie Savea. Missed so many tackles
AB's congrads on your win, England Roses comiserations for your loss. AB's that was close game & closely fought. Made some good gains & improvements, scored some good tries especially those two tries Telea got he had to work for those tries . The shimmy, the pace & power well rewarded with two tries. Fowards were strong & solid, backs played with more accuracy, pace & power they look better of the two teams that always were a threat moving forward with momentum that they scored some good tries. No need to waste time. Ireland next that should be another humdinger of a test where Ireland would like to revenge their lost to the AB's where the AB's put them.oit of the last test, go the AB's.
Harsh on Stuart and Genge. I agree about Freeman, there are a number of options to create more threat, but Furbank needs to come into the line more to move the ball wide and use any threat that they can bring in. Personally I think Sleightholme should be next off the rank, but Borthwick could go for Hendy or Hodge. I can see Freeman being told to switch back for Furbank as he could drop back and provide security under the high ball. If Dan Cole is going to get monstered in scrums then times up - there's no role for him as you say. I think Davidson may get the shout next week. Agree about Ford's tackle, very rusty and poor. I felt sorry for him about the drop goal though and if he'd have hit it then Borthwick would be being hailed as a genius... that's top level sport for you!
Next week I think we have to change it up. My worry is similar regarding curry… I think borthwick will stick with him. 1. Baxter 2. Dan 3. Stuart Let’s see our ‘new look’ front row play together 4. Itoje 5. Chessum 6. CCS 7. Underhill 8. Earl 9. Spencer 10. M. Smith 11. Sleightholme 12. Lawrence 13. Freeman 14. Feyi- Wuboso 15. Furbank Subs- George, Genge, Davison, Coles, T. Hill, Randall, F. Smith, Slade
This could well be the game that is the making of this All Blacks team to get back on track to becoming the best in the world again. Psychologically and mentally massive. Just gotta fix the discipline. England came to play though. What a contest.
England has their very own “Manie Libbok” in George Ford! Well done for blowing the game! Ford has a looong way to go to catch Libbok - he is the world’s champion for blowing tests!
@@johnlamb3101 An All Black has won the world rugby player of the year 10 times since 2001. The AB's hold more records than all the other teams combined. Sititi is our next best world player of the year and once the AB's have a star they click.
Genge being run around for the try was really bad, hesitated and that gave telea the space he needed, Ford got run over by him later but at least didn’t give him the free shot at goal drops Genge’s score at least down to a 4 for me
Two big pluses were that we should we are getting towards to that balance of all out attack and structured play, this game we were a bit too open at the start and too structured at the end. This is why I think the likes of M Smith, Genge and CCS would suit coming on after half time. The likes of Ford, F Smith, Baxter should be starting. I also thought Stuart looked solid and clearly put on extra bulk. I think if Chessum want injured he would have started at 6, yes CCS is flashy and has some big hits but he would suit coming on at number 8, so the likes of Ted Hill starting at 6 and who is solid at line out I think should start the next game. Cole and Genge are looking a bit ropey still and would prefer Rodd/ Obano for Genge and Davison/Fagosban for Cole. Also think Cole’s for Iseikwe as extra beef of the bench. A Tom Willis or Barbeary instead of Dombrandt would have made much more impact off the bench
Earls grass clipper deserved red anton lienert browns tackle is safer and got a yellow, a head high can concuss a player and maybe force them out for a few weeks where as a grass clipper can blow out the knees or ACL and end a players career.. player safety has nothing to do with these cards at this point earls should not be an 8 but at most a 6 because of that dangerous clear foul play
No don't think they did Marcus excellent player but could not unlock abs defence. Abs scrum was all over England, forwards started to give away penalties . Agree he should have stayed on tho
I think you being unfair with Stuart and Genge, on the warm up video you said all you wanted was for them to hold the scrum, they did that and much more. They won 3 scrum penalties and did really impressive tackling and ruck work that slowed NZ ball loads. So easily a 7.5 both. Dombrandt now has 18 caps and he hasn't had a game where I think, wow he deserves a place on the squad.
Hindsight is a wonderful gift isn’t it. Highlighting players performing below par is useful, as well as the ones who perform well. But perspective is always required. Not one England player went into that field to play badly. One poor game doesn’t mean that player is suddenly a poor player. How does anyone on here know the physical state of Marcus Smith at the time he came off? The facts are that England did little to create opportunities. Defensively they put in a good shift, generally well organised. Other than the intercept, we’re just not dangerous. Please stop writing players off when they are clearly excellent players.
I think you were tough with Tom Curry. There were zero turnovers for a long part of the game from either side, and he put himself about as you would want. I think 7 is fairer. Great games from most of the starters but let down by the subs :(
Thanks for the post, telling things as they need to be said, no diplomacy and no vanilla excuses. Losing games we are winning is just poor game management. That stems from Borthwick and his stupid bloody decision making. Ford for Smith is one of the most stupid decisions I have ever seen. Why is Dombrant anywhere near international rugby? Why is Tom Curry being considered at 7 anymore? Why is Slade still playing when his contributions are pretty much zero, aside from losing his position in defence? Add to that, Earl with no arms tackles, again!!! That’s just stupid. Fords attempt at a tackle just embarrassing. And Randall just looks too small for this level for me. I’m not buying the plucky losers crap!! I’m glad you aren’t either!! This needs to be sorted now! And it starts with Borthwick, who is starting to look like a bit of a muppet, who needs to stop picking crap on the bench, and then playing them!!! Not good enough!
Bit generous with a couple for me, earl has to be marked down, a few big defensive mistakes cost us crucial points. Lawrence/slade don't work as an attacking pair. Feyi was great but not a 9. Spencer was average. Tbf thought that was stewarts best game for england. Bench was yet again, a huge drop off! If that's not sorted, it will cost us again v SA!! It keeps costing us!! We can't use the bench to sure things up!! It has to be impactful, that's the difference between coming up short and getting over the line! Although with that being said it was a fantastic test match, hugely enjoyable, brutal at times. The boys did us proud, starting 15 anyway. We just need to be braver with selections.
How can anyone blame Genge for the 1st NZ try. An England prop versus a quality NZ winger. No contest. Shouldn’t you be asking where the England winger and England full back were. At least Genge was there and made the effort Which is more than others did.
England played well, but the scoreline flattered them to be honest. Englands only try, Marcus Smith was clearly offside, which eventually led to a try down the other end. On top of that, the All Blacks had a try disallowed by the TMO going back for the deliberate knock on by Caleb Clarke. But failed to go back and look at the intercept by Marcus Smith and being offside. England had their chances to put the AB's away, but ultimately poor sub choices and their scrum was their undoing.
Everybody knows Smith should not have been subbed that is apart from one man the England coach who’s paid 750k maybe more? to make such a stupid decision, it is pathetic.Wake up Borthwick & the RFU I am a fed up England rugby fan , fed up with crap selections, fed up stupid substitution’s, fed with years and years of underachieving! Next game Theo Dan should start with Bristol hooker on bench, move Freeman to centre and put Sleightholme on the wing or George Hendy. Replace Ford ( please God!) with Finn Smith on the bench. Tom Pearson to No.7
Disappointed England lost and i do think Bothwick made some selection mistakes in selecting G.Ford - H.Slade Who just arn't match fit and it showed I Also think he should have tweaked the back-row 6] T.CURRY/B.CURRY - 7] B.EARL - 8] C.C.SOUTH/A/DROMBRANT [with the players he selected -For myself i would have selected the inform T.HILL at 6 and had either Curry twin back him up] In place of G.Ford and H.Slade i would have had F.Smith [FH] and T.freeman at 13 with O.Slightholm on the wing Giving England extra pace and power in the centers and sher pace on the wing Cracking match though a REALBANGER
The result flattered England. Same old fundamental problems disguised by some fighting spirit. 3:44 Probably to make way for Ford to shepherd the game to the finish. Irony of ironies. Not the first time Ford has fluffed it at critical moments. 5:18 Absolutely. Has the all round skills of a centre and lacks the pace out wide.
I am not sure about the 6 for Curry and the 8 for Earl. I thought Curry was excellent. Top tackler at the time he was taken out of the game. Made an incredible individual effort hustle play to prevent a break and likely try. Earl was solid, but also led the game in missed tackles and made a really stupid and costly no-arms tackle. Scoring Earl 2 points higher than Curry feels like confirmation bias to me.
Last 7 games lost 5 won 2 Ireland by a point and Japan . Bortwick is to blame what game are England playing, never looked like making or scoring a try , a try from a disastrous mistake.
Finn Baxter needed a game like this where he struggled. If, as I think he will be, is to be world class he needs to learn from his struggles at scrum time. Dan Cole, still playing well at club level, but this game showed that at world level he has no longer got it. I thought the video was a bit harsh of Dan. Dombrandt was a bit of a waste of space.
So hard to align those scores with the fact they lost - for a third time - against the all Blacks. -1 for everyone. Specifically for Earl and IFW -1 further for silly penalties (no arms and soft offside) that led directly to AB scores. They were personal discipline fails (vs Genge who I felt was system fails).
We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory down to poor decisions from Bore Thwick, George Ford should retire after that pathetic performance, a missed tackle and two three point game winning chances missed, a shocker. We also have some outstanding back rowers in the Gallagher Premiership who are better than we picked yesterday who could join the brilliant Ben Earl. Front row continues to be our Achilles heel, we'll never win the big ones until we solve this.
Smith & Spencer played well and should’ve stayed on. Big mistake to sub them when it was going well! Bench lost it for England alas. Congrats to ABs, was a wonderful game and spectacle.
They were just too good for England. Having said which the penalty that would probably have won the game hit the post. Again the starting 15 just about won the game but ran out of steam and the bench weren't good enough to keep up the good work.
All this talk about Marcus Smith…what sort of team only has one player that can make a difference? England need to learn how to score tries like the All Blacks do. The score line flattered England, most of the rugby was played by the All Blacks who deservedly won.
Curry and CCS offered nothing creative. Slade offered nothing. You should have scored Ford -3. Bone-head Borthwick should surely have realised what an influence Spencer and Smith were having, and left them on. Borthwick was probably a 1 at best.
You forgot to give the Head Coach a score...how about 1. Unless you have a true leader at the top of the tree, how can you expect the players to perform and win matches. S. Borthwick is not England head coach material, in my opinion. England need a world-class coaching setup, Mr Andy Farrell, Mr Shaun Edwards, Mr Stuart Lancaster, to name three excellent candidates. Fire Numpty Borthwick ASAP.
Ive said it before, borthwick is bang average as a coach, god knows why he has so much faith in tom curry who has been poor for at least 2 years, and what possessed him to pick dombrandt who has been woeful at international level. Agree Freeman is a 13 not a winger, ford bar that 1 game at the world cup is past his best as well. Persisting with these older players is sadly an england coaching trait. Sadly borthwick will be indulged up to and through the next world cup before being given his marching orders.
Comment made in this video, are of someone who doesn’t understand rugby “Genge got stepped” That was his job, get off the line fast force them on the inside and stop them spreading the ball. its the purpose of a blitz defence against a team like NZ
Dan Cole did ok as he always does. He was made to look ordinary by the fact that his 2 other front row colleagues struggled. I refuse to take criticism of front row players from folks that haven’t played there and therefore have no f idea what they are talking about and that includes international referees. A good prop needs a good front row and good second and back rows, he can’t do it on his/her own.
Borethick definitely out of his depth. Cole, Ford, Slade aren’t up to it. Sad but true. His subs were abysmal and lost us the game. There are so many other great players out there but he is so ultra conservative he won’t try them. Bodes very poorly for next WRC. England learnt Nothing new yesterday .
Steve Borthwick is a clown. You never take off your players who are on fire. Look what happens when you do !! Feel really sorry for George Ford . Thank goodness real rugby fans know where to lay the blame. Sooner he goes the better !! Regards Paul.
Outplayed by the worst New Zealand team in years, for the third time. A team that has lost to Argentina and almost lost to Australia. This England team isnt good, they have no attacking game. New Zealand simply ill disciplined and turnover prone sloppy, thats why this game was even close. No development players, no development, continued dross but people are trying to hype it now.
Yet again pre planned bench changes ruin England’s chances. Dan is a poor line out thrower who always causes a disruption in England’s line out possession. I despair.
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Marcus Smith should never have come off
It was a really poorly selected bench tbh.
Agree lost the game, Ford is a fvcking loser for England, hes to slow and weak and needs retiring.
Borthwick lost that match. Marcus Smith and Cunningham-South going great. He brings them off. And tells George Ford to 'bore' the game out. Can't do that against NZ 🙄. Could absolutely see ten minutes from end who was gonna win.
Scotland at Murray Field all over again. Smith running the show so let's replace him for teachers pet Ford.
100% agree, he is so out of his depth it’s unbelievable and h has no more excuses. He obviously wanted to bring Ford on and win the match so he could start Ford against Aus and SA. A totally missed opportunity completely the fault of the coaches.
They lost it together. Teams need to hang in to win that is rugby
Your scores are good. But no one got a 9 from me. Both teams looked like losers against SA France and Ireland. Maybe they will by the end of the autumn series
@@dazeng4633 Exactly! With Ford gesticulating with his hands "Calm down! I 'm in control."
Smith was doing well and had the feel of the game. I wouldn't change a fly half if they are playing well - it takes a while to get into the 'zone' after coming off the bench.
Borthwick living in the past with his selections and pathetic sub picks
Borthwick seems like another Southgate. Can't beat the teams above him.
Southgate at least developed players, Borthwick is out here running out will Stuart, dan Cole,joe marler and a tom curry that is half the player he was in years gone by. While telling Marcus smith to play like Owen Farrell and playing ben earl at 8 when he doesnt play there for club.
Apart from Ireland and Argentina?
that’s generally how rankings work. England is performing and has performed better than they should. No way in the WC they should have been within a point of SA, they should have lost to Fiji, they beat Ireland to stop the double grand slam, came within a score of beating France. Quite honestly if you aren’t happy with this after 2 years of Borthwick in charge you never will be. Better off turning off your tv or not going to the games.
It's seems to be the English desease in most sports... Safety first.
Well RFU wanted a Englishman and well there's been little process when England come up against the southern hemisphere sides they come up short. A long way for this English squad to say they will be become a great team 🏉🏴🥴
NZ gave you the keys to the car, and you decided to take the bus??!! Unbelievable, why would you take Smith off. He was great
@@spottersworld3135 they really gave England ‘the keys to the car’ by only scoring 3 tries v 1 intercept 🙄
Move Freeman to 13 and bring in Ollie Sleightholme.
Ben Earl no arms tackle was turning point for me
Definitely not Smith missing 2 drop goals, or the creaky scrum intbhe last 15, or the missed penalty or ford missing a drop goal. This is such a stupid game. There's always many many factors.
Agreed - can’t see an 8 with that major blemish
Super dangerous clear foul play deserved at minimum a yellow card for that, what would you prefer a concussion or a blown out knee or ACL?
He’s a defensive liability. Don’t think rugbyanalyst was watching closely enough to be honest. Regularly misses 1 on 1 tackles, did some really mental solo blitz defence at one point and yes of course arguably lost the game conceding that pointless no arm tackle penalty
Overeaction @@Zacaryquack
As a Welsh fan, I thought England were bloody ballsy and they’re going to be a fantastic team soon… (I’m going to watch Wales Vs England in the 6N and I’m very worried). As soon as England get their attack and defensive alignment clicking, they’re going to be terrifying… especially unleashing the likes of Waboso. All in all, England could have easily been on the right side of the result today and I think the main issue was Borthwick removing two half backs who were controlling the game! Spencer was marshalling everyone fantastically in my opinion and Randall just looked entirely rattled when he came on.. I didn’t see the point in bringing someone like Randall on to see out a game
Stuart should get an 8 for holding the scrum up.
Cunningham South should have scored an 8 too, monster power.
Tom Curry didn't offer much apart from tackling fairly well. It's just not good enough considering our other options. Now he's got a central contract or whatever have we got another year of watching him lumbering about? Great.
Very good point you make about the robotic use of subs Rich. You bring on Harry Randell and get him box kicking? Madness. Then bring on Ford who's been out for 2 months - and he misses his kicks - just dumb.
Get the form players in like you promised SB, we need more pace and more line breakers. Freeman to 13, Slightholme on the Wing, Willis to 8, Hill on the bench. We could be so much better!!
Totally agree.
100%
Borthwick is Southgate 2. A bland, safe pair of hands, utter stupidity to put ford on, we ALL know he doesn't like tackling. Unforgivable attempt at a tackle from Ford.
Smith is an 80 minute player, he proves that week in week out at quins and has done so at international when given the chance
Think Genge and Stuart are worth 7 if only for keeping the scrum solid, which I wasn't expecting.
@@peterp9918 Yes but Genge missed 2 tackles that resulted in 2 tries.
Agree about Ford’s tackling…..abysmal, he always looks less than committed in that department. I think we have seen his last season in an England shirt. Fin Smith needs to be the natural sub or starter for Marcus Smith. Fin brings more attacking flair to the game than Ford and if they shared jerseys the RFU could save £ on jersey printing! 😂
Marcus will always start, unless Fin does something amazing
The 2 problems with freeman on the wing are:
1: as you said, not a speedster, not an all out threat. Good all rounder.
2: we're wasting a wing position on freeman where we can put a real threat, sleightome, ibitoye, radwan?
That was Smiths best game for England by a mile. Hopefully this is what’s to come. Massive problem is front row particularly tight head. I think Baxter will come good in time.
Great reviews, can you add a score for the manager next week
Good call!
Agree with all your scores on this one. Honestly don't know why Smith was taken off, and why GF was even in the squad after a long injury layoff.
George Ford getting all the blame, but the end of the day you have a squad of players not 15. The England wing that got sucked in and doubled up, leaving Genge against Tele'a was as guilty
Congrats NZ they still the formidable ABs
Scores for the subs, speak volumes........shocking decisions from SB
Attack was clunky, hardly looked like scoring a try aside from the intercept. Defensively very 50/50, 2 of those three tries were easily preventable (Furbank shouldn't have bought in and Ford made a poor tackle attempt) and yet another winning position that England don't capitalise on and close out. Same old same old I'm afraid!
Furbank only made the tackle because not enough people had rotated. Genge and the next defender should have been covering the wing, allowing Furbank to drop back and cover. However, since no one was there, Furbank had to make the tackle, allowing the defender through. 9 times out of 10 if a fullback makes a tackle on the game line, the rest of the team has fucked up.
Ford shouldn’t play if he’s not willing to make the cover tackle. I don’t care about missed kicks (though it wasn’t the hardest kick in the world) and drop goals, you can’t make them all. But if a player is unwilling to go low on a cover tackle, then they might as well hand the game to the opposition on a silver platter.
Smith deserves a 9, responsible for all of the points we scored and if he was still on we probably would have won the match
Bizarre substitutions. Ford with no game time comes on to replace a player who was on top of his game. Useless frankly. SB lost that game.
Spot on about Fords tackle attempt
It hard to say but to take a player off if playing well in these games I know it's hard on the bench but don't change for change sake room for improvement
Wouldn’t quibble with any of your ratings, Rich.
Except, maybe a 2 for Borthwick - who is now WAY out of his depth.
And - you can bet - will not change a thing for the Boks game.
If we had started Willis, Lozowski and Ibitoye, we would have won.
If we had not pulled Smith and Spencer we might have won.
If we’d had Opoku-F, Obano, Fin Smith and Hill (or Unders) on the bench, we could have consolidated our lead thru the final 10-12 minutes ….. but, due entirely to Super-Steve, of course we didn’t.
We HAVE to get 13 right, and - much though I love the Tom Curry of old - we need Willis & Earl at 7 & 8.
Great breakdown
totally agree that Freeman has to start at centre.
Backrow was excellent, good balance and disruptive. Martin was a monster at the ruck, particularly in the 1st half when it was all quick ball.
Seeing that C-South played well, I am wondering what the loose trio would have looked like if Ollie Chessum wasn't injured
I noticed Warburton saying at the end of the game that England fans should still be positive after that as England have learned from our last two games. How can we have learned anything, when we have lost 3 tests against NZ in the exact same fashion, in a row. Seriously disappointing to not have made any adjustments since the last two losses. Was a big defender of Borthwick. Now I don’t think he’s up to the job.
Disagree on Spencer. Thought he looked really slow and cumbersome around the ruck. Deffo slowed the attack down in their 22
I’d have given Will Stuart an 8 Rich. He got penalties out of the New Zealand scrum and for the first time in a while the England scum looked rock solid with him there. That is his primary role.
You need not just good loose forwards, you need exceptional and quick. The Curry’s are in with the establishment but are it the deal Eng need. A crying shame Willis and Hill were overlooked again. I honestly still have doubts about SB. Shame also Mitchell was injured - and the Centers are also not top draw. The timing of the replacement front row was premature also, imho.
Top 3 players: Marcus Smith, Feyi Waboso, Cunningham-South. Honourable mention for Maro Itoje.
Bottom 3 players: Ben Earl, George Ford, replacement props (Cole and Baxter). Ben Earl was really poor, outclassed by Ardie Savea. Missed so many tackles
AB's congrads on your win, England Roses comiserations for your loss. AB's that was close game & closely fought. Made some good gains & improvements, scored some good tries especially those two tries Telea got he had to work for those tries . The shimmy, the pace & power well rewarded with two tries. Fowards were strong & solid, backs played with more accuracy, pace & power they look better of the two teams that always were a threat moving forward with momentum that they scored some good tries. No need to waste time. Ireland next that should be another humdinger of a test where Ireland would like to revenge their lost to the AB's where the AB's put them.oit of the last test, go the AB's.
Well done to ABs, our Southern Hemisphere brothers. Sititti was insane...fair comment to England is that they were very good on the day...from SAFFA
Harsh on Stuart and Genge. I agree about Freeman, there are a number of options to create more threat, but Furbank needs to come into the line more to move the ball wide and use any threat that they can bring in. Personally I think Sleightholme should be next off the rank, but Borthwick could go for Hendy or Hodge. I can see Freeman being told to switch back for Furbank as he could drop back and provide security under the high ball.
If Dan Cole is going to get monstered in scrums then times up - there's no role for him as you say. I think Davidson may get the shout next week.
Agree about Ford's tackle, very rusty and poor. I felt sorry for him about the drop goal though and if he'd have hit it then Borthwick would be being hailed as a genius... that's top level sport for you!
Ben Earl's stupid no-arms tackle was costly.
Next week I think we have to change it up. My worry is similar regarding curry… I think borthwick will stick with him.
1. Baxter
2. Dan
3. Stuart
Let’s see our ‘new look’ front row play together
4. Itoje
5. Chessum
6. CCS
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Spencer
10. M. Smith
11. Sleightholme
12. Lawrence
13. Freeman
14. Feyi- Wuboso
15. Furbank
Subs- George, Genge, Davison, Coles, T. Hill, Randall, F. Smith, Slade
Come off it, Furbank came off his wing and left the NZ winger to run outside Genge. He was at fault for the first cry
There is no villain. NZ were better with ball in hand and scored three tries.
No excuse for losing that. Smith off for no reason. NZ's 3rd try was poor defence on the wing.
Men of the match Sahiti &Fei Wayboso.both brilliant
This could well be the game that is the making of this All Blacks team to get back on track to becoming the best in the world again. Psychologically and mentally massive. Just gotta fix the discipline. England came to play though. What a contest.
Loooong way to go ……..dream on and on and on!
England has their very own “Manie Libbok” in George Ford! Well done for blowing the game! Ford has a looong way to go to catch Libbok - he is the world’s champion for blowing tests!
also gotta fix the lineout throwing, scrum, tactical kicking and rush defence counter. apart from that, we're golden.
@@johnlamb3101 An All Black has won the world rugby player of the year 10 times since 2001. The AB's hold more records than all the other teams combined. Sititi is our next best world player of the year and once the AB's have a star they click.
Tom Curry was exceptional yesterday. His tackling was great and forced 2 knock ons. Super harsh rating
Genge being run around for the try was really bad, hesitated and that gave telea the space he needed, Ford got run over by him later but at least didn’t give him the free shot at goal drops Genge’s score at least down to a 4 for me
Two big pluses were that we should we are getting towards to that balance of all out attack and structured play, this game we were a bit too open at the start and too structured at the end. This is why I think the likes of M Smith, Genge and CCS would suit coming on after half time. The likes of Ford, F Smith, Baxter should be starting. I also thought Stuart looked solid and clearly put on extra bulk.
I think if Chessum want injured he would have started at 6, yes CCS is flashy and has some big hits but he would suit coming on at number 8, so the likes of Ted Hill starting at 6 and who is solid at line out I think should start the next game. Cole and Genge are looking a bit ropey still and would prefer Rodd/ Obano for Genge and Davison/Fagosban for Cole. Also think Cole’s for Iseikwe as extra beef of the bench. A Tom Willis or Barbeary instead of Dombrandt would have made much more impact off the bench
Earls grass clipper deserved red anton lienert browns tackle is safer and got a yellow, a head high can concuss a player and maybe force them out for a few weeks where as a grass clipper can blow out the knees or ACL and end a players career.. player safety has nothing to do with these cards at this point earls should not be an 8 but at most a 6 because of that dangerous clear foul play
Borthwick tried to park the bus just as England looked dangerous
No don't think they did Marcus excellent player but could not unlock abs defence. Abs scrum was all over England, forwards started to give away penalties . Agree he should have stayed on tho
I think you've got it spot on. Unfortunately, it's made a big hole in my pension to watch it on TNT 😢
Don't know how Lawrence got an 8, got gassed twice by the NZ 6, made no breaks and he should be 13!
I think you being unfair with Stuart and Genge, on the warm up video you said all you wanted was for them to hold the scrum, they did that and much more. They won 3 scrum penalties and did really impressive tackling and ruck work that slowed NZ ball loads. So easily a 7.5 both.
Dombrandt now has 18 caps and he hasn't had a game where I think, wow he deserves a place on the squad.
Hindsight is a wonderful gift isn’t it. Highlighting players performing below par is useful, as well as the ones who perform well. But perspective is always required. Not one England player went into that field to play badly. One poor game doesn’t mean that player is suddenly a poor player. How does anyone on here know the physical state of Marcus Smith at the time he came off?
The facts are that England did little to create opportunities. Defensively they put in a good shift, generally well organised. Other than the intercept, we’re just not dangerous.
Please stop writing players off when they are clearly excellent players.
I think you were tough with Tom Curry. There were zero turnovers for a long part of the game from either side, and he put himself about as you would want. I think 7 is fairer. Great games from most of the starters but let down by the subs :(
Well done, you didn't mention Ted Hill!
Whats the use of the 6_ 2 split for England??😏😏
especially with a weak asf bench
I think its time to get Ford and Gorge in a leadership role and let Dan, Smith and Smith run the game.
Thanks for the post, telling things as they need to be said, no diplomacy and no vanilla excuses.
Losing games we are winning is just poor game management. That stems from Borthwick and his stupid bloody decision making.
Ford for Smith is one of the most stupid decisions I have ever seen.
Why is Dombrant anywhere near international rugby?
Why is Tom Curry being considered at 7 anymore?
Why is Slade still playing when his contributions are pretty much zero, aside from losing his position in defence?
Add to that, Earl with no arms tackles, again!!! That’s just stupid.
Fords attempt at a tackle just embarrassing.
And Randall just looks too small for this level for me.
I’m not buying the plucky losers crap!! I’m glad you aren’t either!!
This needs to be sorted now! And it starts with Borthwick, who is starting to look like a bit of a muppet, who needs to stop picking crap on the bench, and then playing them!!!
Not good enough!
Bit generous with a couple for me, earl has to be marked down, a few big defensive mistakes cost us crucial points. Lawrence/slade don't work as an attacking pair. Feyi was great but not a 9. Spencer was average.
Tbf thought that was stewarts best game for england. Bench was yet again, a huge drop off! If that's not sorted, it will cost us again v SA!! It keeps costing us!! We can't use the bench to sure things up!! It has to be impactful, that's the difference between coming up short and getting over the line!
Although with that being said it was a fantastic test match, hugely enjoyable, brutal at times. The boys did us proud, starting 15 anyway. We just need to be braver with selections.
How can anyone blame Genge for the 1st NZ try.
An England prop versus a quality NZ winger. No contest.
Shouldn’t you be asking where the England winger and England full back were.
At least Genge was there and made the effort
Which is more than others did.
Genge let 2 tries through. It wasn’t a question of a wing versus a prop, he is just bad at tackling.
Ben Earl is a fantastic rugby player, but that chop tackle could be career ending for someone.
England played well, but the scoreline flattered them to be honest.
Englands only try, Marcus Smith was clearly offside, which eventually led to a try down the other end. On top of that, the All Blacks had a try disallowed by the TMO going back for the deliberate knock on by Caleb Clarke. But failed to go back and look at the intercept by Marcus Smith and being offside.
England had their chances to put the AB's away, but ultimately poor sub choices and their scrum was their undoing.
Prefered the ABs C team game in Wales to this one,
Smith or Ford? Makes no difference if you're finishing front row can't scrummage. That's where the game was lost
Everybody knows Smith should not have been subbed that is apart from one man the England coach who’s paid 750k maybe more? to make such a stupid decision, it is pathetic.Wake up Borthwick & the RFU I am a fed up England rugby fan , fed up with crap selections, fed up stupid substitution’s, fed with years and years of underachieving! Next game Theo Dan should start with Bristol hooker on bench, move Freeman to centre and put Sleightholme on the wing or George Hendy. Replace Ford ( please God!) with Finn Smith on the bench. Tom Pearson to No.7
Disappointed England lost and i do think Bothwick made some selection mistakes in selecting G.Ford - H.Slade Who just arn't match fit and it showed I Also think he should have tweaked the back-row 6] T.CURRY/B.CURRY - 7] B.EARL - 8] C.C.SOUTH/A/DROMBRANT [with the players he selected -For myself i would have selected the inform T.HILL at 6 and had either Curry twin back him up] In place of G.Ford and H.Slade i would have had F.Smith [FH] and T.freeman at 13 with O.Slightholm on the wing Giving England extra pace and power in the centers and sher pace on the wing Cracking match though a REALBANGER
How can you give Genge a 6? He tried to show Talea the outside, and gifted him a try.
Earl and Lawrence 6 for me
Can we talk about the dirty ankle trip by the English while lying on the ground after the intercept?
Tom Curry was a 7 and Earl a 6 for me, otherwise ok.
The result flattered England. Same old fundamental problems disguised by some fighting spirit. 3:44 Probably to make way for Ford to shepherd the game to the finish. Irony of ironies. Not the first time Ford has fluffed it at critical moments. 5:18 Absolutely. Has the all round skills of a centre and lacks the pace out wide.
I am not sure about the 6 for Curry and the 8 for Earl. I thought Curry was excellent. Top tackler at the time he was taken out of the game. Made an incredible individual effort hustle play to prevent a break and likely try. Earl was solid, but also led the game in missed tackles and made a really stupid and costly no-arms tackle. Scoring Earl 2 points higher than Curry feels like confirmation bias to me.
Last 7 games lost 5 won 2 Ireland by a point and Japan . Bortwick is to blame what game are England playing, never looked like making or scoring a try , a try from a disastrous mistake.
Finn Baxter needed a game like this where he struggled. If, as I think he will be, is to be world class he needs to learn from his struggles at scrum time. Dan Cole, still playing well at club level, but this game showed that at world level he has no longer got it. I thought the video was a bit harsh of Dan. Dombrandt was a bit of a waste of space.
So hard to align those scores with the fact they lost - for a third time - against the all Blacks. -1 for everyone.
Specifically for Earl and IFW -1 further for silly penalties (no arms and soft offside) that led directly to AB scores. They were personal discipline fails (vs Genge who I felt was system fails).
We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory down to poor decisions from Bore Thwick, George Ford should retire after that pathetic performance, a missed tackle and two three point game winning chances missed, a shocker. We also have some outstanding back rowers in the Gallagher Premiership who are better than we picked yesterday who could join the brilliant Ben Earl. Front row continues to be our Achilles heel, we'll never win the big ones until we solve this.
Genge let through 2 tries that he should/could have prevented. he gets a max 4 from me.
Smith & Spencer played well and should’ve stayed on. Big mistake to sub them when it was going well! Bench lost it for England alas. Congrats to ABs, was a wonderful game and spectacle.
Best game yet for Stuart (7) no attacking threat at all though, no ideas, poor set pieces.
I didn't listen to what you had to say but watching the match New Zealand edged it which really is disappointing
They were just too good for England. Having said which the penalty that would probably have won the game hit the post. Again the starting 15 just about won the game but ran out of steam and the bench weren't good enough to keep up the good work.
All this talk about Marcus Smith…what sort of team only has one player that can make a difference? England need to learn how to score tries like the All Blacks do. The score line flattered England, most of the rugby was played by the All Blacks who deservedly won.
Curry and CCS offered nothing creative. Slade offered nothing. You should have scored Ford -3. Bone-head Borthwick should surely have realised what an influence Spencer and Smith were having, and left them on. Borthwick was probably a 1 at best.
NZ tried really hard to lose that game. Better luck next time En
Won the Penalty
Count
Card Battle
looked better
Overall.
NZ spent their whole 9 lives ....and lived.
Ben Earl, is an 8?, he gave away the pen, that put NZ back in the game
You forgot to give the Head Coach a score...how about 1.
Unless you have a true leader at the top of the tree, how can you expect the players to perform and win matches.
S. Borthwick is not England head coach material, in my opinion. England need a world-class coaching setup, Mr Andy Farrell, Mr Shaun Edwards, Mr Stuart Lancaster, to name three excellent candidates. Fire Numpty Borthwick ASAP.
Ive said it before, borthwick is bang average as a coach, god knows why he has so much faith in tom curry who has been poor for at least 2 years, and what possessed him to pick dombrandt who has been woeful at international level. Agree Freeman is a 13 not a winger, ford bar that 1 game at the world cup is past his best as well. Persisting with these older players is sadly an england coaching trait. Sadly borthwick will be indulged up to and through the next world cup before being given his marching orders.
Great celebration for making a tackle. Then went on to choke again.
Comment made in this video, are of someone who doesn’t understand rugby “Genge got stepped” That was his job, get off the line fast force them on the inside and stop them spreading the ball. its the purpose of a blitz defence against a team like NZ
Dan Cole did ok as he always does. He was made to look ordinary by the fact that his 2 other front row colleagues struggled. I refuse to take criticism of front row players from folks that haven’t played there and therefore have no f idea what they are talking about and that includes international referees. A good prop needs a good front row and good second and back rows, he can’t do it on his/her own.
Borethick definitely out of his depth. Cole, Ford, Slade aren’t up to it. Sad but true. His subs were abysmal and lost us the game. There are so many other great players out there but he is so ultra conservative he won’t try them. Bodes very poorly for next WRC. England learnt Nothing new yesterday .
Night just watched the highlights ,Smith wasent at fault in this game no order or smooth play sorry England Irish fan .
Steve Borthwick is a clown. You never take off your players who are on fire. Look what happens when you do !! Feel really sorry for George Ford . Thank goodness real rugby fans know where to lay the blame. Sooner he goes the better !! Regards Paul.
Outplayed by the worst New Zealand team in years, for the third time. A team that has lost to Argentina and almost lost to Australia. This England team isnt good, they have no attacking game. New Zealand simply ill disciplined and turnover prone sloppy, thats why this game was even close. No development players, no development, continued dross but people are trying to hype it now.
LOL
Both teams poor!!
Cunningham South must be a 9😅
Yet again pre planned bench changes ruin England’s chances. Dan is a poor line out thrower who always causes a disruption in England’s line out possession. I despair.
Earl 8 no cost us the game momentum with stupidity