Can really recommend Incogni. Took Mentour's offer up earlier and let Incogni go to work. It took a few days, but then the junk mail just quit coming. Incogni's really worth it!
My biggest gripe about air travel is not the aircraft or the seats or the "toys" in business class but the time wasted at airports. Having to check in hours before the flight, endless ques and security checks. I remember flying from London Heathrow to Dusseldorf in the 1960s when the check-in was just 30 mins before boarding. But now its a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare just getting to the aircraft. Faffing around with seat sizes and in flight toys is not the answer. I just want to buy a ticket and get on the plane!
I get why you'd want all those checks to go away, because all you want is to get ON the plane. However, those checks are there for the people who would also like to get OFF the plane at some point, as well! >)
Exactly my issue with traveling these days. I have options as far as seating choices, but not so much for the airport experience. I don't fly very often, so pre-TSA/ClearMe are not really good products, but I dread every time I have to go through the TSA security lines, especially in a major hub on a Friday. I did exactly that in Atlanta a month or two ago - I joined the ridiculously long line 2 hours before my flight and barely made it to the gate. And I was on my own. Add my family with two toddlers and it becomes hell on Earth.
Yes and how often do you read about tests of the security failing with testers getting weapons on planes. Then we have the grandma arrested with having CBD oil
@@ThomasJoseph-sq9jl My father lived in Atlanta. You have my sympathy. Even before the TSA hassle dealing with the airport logistics is horrible. My father worked in aviation and when I arrived to visit complaining about the entire experience he would remind me airports are designed to service the planes not the people.
When talking about the death of regular TV, I often cite your channel as why. Old shows about air disasters had pilots yelling jargon and flipping overhead switches. Your channels are professional, honest and and respectful of viewer, and I can't recommend you enough!
It's like with the historical documentaries on TV versus what I see on TH-cam - one is patronising and caters to the lowest common denominator (who probably won't watch it) and the other revels in complexity and depth; beyond that I find many TV documentaries tend to meddle in the Cultural Wars without sense of perspective or awareness.
@@memofromessex But TV has also changed. There are fewer documentaries made for commercial free television (like the old BBC) and they are all following the same sensationalism and repetition of the same questions, eventually answered five minute from the end. It is all bout making people stay for the commercial, not about people being interested in the subject.
I genuinely think the small size of seats and aisles is becoming a safety issue. Whenever they do 90 second evacuation tests, they don’t use normal people, they use their own (tiny, young, fit) staff. In my opinion every airplane should have to demonstrate they can meet 90 seconds using a randomly selected group of people recruited for this activity, including the 40% overweight, elderly people, etc. It should be necessary to demonstrate that there is enough space between seats where if the middle and aisle passenger are incapacitated an average-sized window passenger could still squeeze by, including if the seats before are reclined when the accident happens.
You are so right! Unfortunately, it will probably take an entirely preventable disaster with a huge loss of life before anything is done about the current, unacknowledged safety issues.
Well fortunately that 90 second escape window has just been wonderfully illustrated, in Japan, by the 379 passengers escaping from the burning Airbus A350 in less than 90 seconds on only 3 inflatable slides. Thankfully everything worked out for those people who are all okay. 👍🏼
If they have to run the test that way, given the size and shape of the average American they’d only have room for two columns of seats by the window each and the rest would have to be open space in the middle. Also, might have to install a moving sidewalk in the plane . 😂😂
The most memorable flight I ever had was in 1960 when I was 13!! It was on board a Short Solent flying boat from Suva, Fiji to Tahiti. It was operated by Tasman Empire Airways Ltd. (TEAL) - the forerunner of Air NZ. The flight left Suva in the morning and arrived in Western Samoa late the same afternoon. We then departed in the early hours of the next morning for Aitutaki Is. in the Cook Islands. The passengers went ashore for a swim in the sea and breakfast on the beach under the palm trees! In the meantime fuel was hand-pumped into the aircraft tanks from a barge alongside. Then we left Aitutaki around 10 am and my younger brother and I were invited to the flight deck for the takeoff!! We simply stood behind the pilots' seats and experienced the tremendous engine noise from the 4 Bristol Hercules engines and the thrill as we eventually lifted off the water. I can still see the skipper's hands on the 4 throttle levers. We were in sight of Moorea Is. about 2pm and soon landed at Papeete, Tahiti. When we saw Moorea, the skipper announced that the island was in sight and everyone rushed across to the left (port) side to see the beautiful island from our 10,000 foot ceiling. Then he came back on the speaker and asked that everyone get back in their seats because he was having a problem keeping the old girl in the air in its unbalanced state!! That was the second to last flight of the TEAL Coral Route, as it was known. A truly memorable experience never to be repeated.
It's all about to change if WEF get their way. They want to discourage the common man from flying and make it an exclusive reserve for the elites only. Whether it's through some kind of taxation to put it out our reach or introduction of legislation that makes it impossible for the plebs to get authorisation to use air travel, that's where we're headed. This could also explain why the airline companies are already reconfiguring their fleets to be ready for the future. Fewer passengers and only high earners allowed.
To me some different cabin class solutions that have been popping up are really interesting. Zipair for example is flying from Tokyo to San Francisco with a lie flat seat without a screen or meal service. But if you are like me 195cm tall and just want to sleep on the flight, an offering like this is really attractive.
The main reason I don't like flying is all the annoying crap that comes with it. It starts with the baggage limits, then the journey to the airport, the nerve-wracking waiting at the airport, the running around, all the annoying security checks and then screaming babies that drive you crazy during the flight. When I finally arrive at my destination, I'm so stressed that three vacation days are spent just recovering from the flight. In the meantime, I only travel by car because it's much more comfortable. I can look for an interesting route, set off whenever I want and stop here, have a look there. I can take as much luggage with me as I want and don't have any annoying fellow travelers. And when I arrive, I've seen a lot on the way and I have my own car with me, so I don't need a rental car.
Driving sucks though, for anything over 100mi. You have to focus while driving, while on the plane you can just relax and watch an inflight movie, the waiting does kinda suck at the airport, but you do make up for it in reduced travel time. Not to mention that air travel is many times safer than driving. It really is a question of is more luggage worth your time and safety? if not, then fly.
It is better now 😊 My father told me that he flew from Stockholm Sweden to South Rodesia (Zimbabwe now) in Africa during the early 1950's.. The trip took three days with a DC 3. First day Stocholm - Paris, second day Paris - northern/central Africa, third day the last leg to South Rodesia. Two hotel nights included in the ticket price.
I remember Pan Am Clipper Class. Took many trips around Asia. 2-3-2 seat config, free mixed drinks, way upgraded food, silverware, wide seats. The price was decent. The old 747s had about 40 or 50 of those seats behind first class. Loved those Pan Am 747s.
In 1979, my family was 'bumped' off a flight (can't remember the Airline) from Hawaii to N.Y. stopping in L.A. With a prospective 11 hour layover, I instead, went up to the Pan Am counter & saw one of their flights was leaving in an hour! They took our non-Pan Am tickets & let us fly to N.Y. (no extra charge) arriving only 2.5. hrs. late! Pan Am will always remain "The King of the Skies" to me!
They also had clipper class seats in the upper deck of the 747s. My one and only 747 flight was on the upper deck of a Pan Am 747 in clipper class when I was a kid. they even ran those on domestic flights between NY and Florida.
Minor detail: a regular interstate trip we do which (allowing for inflation) cost about $1800 in today’s money in the early 1970s, now can usually be picked up for about $150- $170. Unless you’re buying a seat at the last minute and traveling at peak time in holiday season, the price is now a tiny fraction of what it used to be, literally 10% or even less.
19:22 I agree with the nice Middle Eastern gentleman. Earlier this year I have flown from Atlanta to Amsterdam and back in Delta’s Economy Comfort+ and almost $1k extra a ticket can hardly justify benefits. - one step up in boarding - few in of extra leg room - movable foot rest (all of them were not functional on all seats I could see) - “guaranteed” pillow, blanket and headphones - complimentary alcoholic beverages.
Exactly. If the flying public wants to blame someone for the cramped conditions and horrible service they only need look in a mirror. Or pay up for premium seating which, adjusted for inflation, is cheaper than tickets back in the "good old days." No one pays $69 for a hotel room and expects a Four Seasons experience. But somehow people expect airlines to be different?
that is utter garbage, have you actually seen the price of the average airfare, I just flew from Switzerland to Bangkok return for under £400 with luggage for 3 month ticket, and paid an extra £80 for 4 seats selection, 2 flights out and 2 back. If you want to blame anyone blame the airports and the taxes, my ticket equated to £139 for the flight and £270 in FEES and taxes those have nothing to do with the passenger but the greed of those running the show. Now if that was reversed and the ticket price was £270 and the taxes were £139 airlines would be CONSIDERABLY less likely to cram an extra 30 seats on to each plane just to cover costs@@toddsmith8608
Why not? As long as the deal is mutually satisfactory, as old Romans used to say "pacta sunt servanda". The problem is when you buy priority boarding and have it denied (by a Norwegian employee groaning something about "calling police")or when you find out your premium economy occupied by someone else and the attendant politely tells you to seat "where I say otherwise I kick your axx out of my plane" (where else but in a United flight?). There is plenty of airlines that honor what they sell and as usual some that don't.
@@CARLOSFERNANDEZ-vf2fm oh god, I had thrombosis after a short haul low carrier flight during a school trip, so I now actually pay for aisle seat or emergency row reservations and would pay for more leg room in economy plus. If anyone would deny me that seat, I'd probably sue them and I'm not American 😅 I'd might turn into a Karen and film them or have them sign something if they want to kick me off the plane and/or not give me my paid for seat. I'm not playing with my health like that.
Today's low cost long haul flights are of ridiculously bad service. My wife and I recently flew LEVEL (Iberia) from Boston to Barcelona and back. Turns out, unless you pay extra (and you know about this upfront) they won't give you as much as a glass of water on their transatlantic flights. You also must pay for headphones, pillows and blankets. This is a new low. And the price was in the ballpark of their competitors (just below $700 per roundtrip, plus $240 for the option to sit next to each other on both flights) - we chose it because of the direct flight. Oh well, never again.
I can't tell you how much I love these deep dive videos! Gives me a deeper understanding - and appreciation - of airline/airplane related topics/issues... And, Petter, don't worry about making your videos 'unbearably long'! No such thing! Personally, I'd *love* to see longer videos with really deep dives (say, 45-60 min long)! I really like the long-format style en vogue nowadays, and I have a feeling you will be really good at it -- making it both informative & interesting!
The last comment was absolutely correct. In the 80’s I flew hundreds if not thousands of flights and if I was running late I knew I could make a flight if I got inside the terminal 10 minutes before departure. Today is 1-2 hours and then you get a seat that you can barely, in my case, get your knees into. I won’t fly unless my destination is more than a 900 miles away.
I flew on a 707 on long haul in 1963 and the seats were larger the food actually was terrible and ticket prices were outrageous so the flights were half empty
I was flying economy class out of John Wayne once, and a cousin who worked for the airline had found out I was flying that day, and upgraded me to First Class. I was as surprised as the ticket agent, and she called over her supervisor to check it out, all the while glancing at me suspiciously. I was confused at their triple-checking, but I got First Class. It was when we were being served the meal, and the repulsed look on the stewardess's face while handing me my food that I realized I must have broken some dress code or something. I was wearing nice denims, a buttoned shirt, and Topsiders, but apparently it was not up to their "standards." I told the smug stewardess I'd be glad to give up my seat to anyone who would like it, and let me sit in coach. She realized I was pissed, and rather than make a scene let me go back to coach for the flight. Yep, good ol' Alaska.
I fly a lot, most the time in premium economy domestically, and first on longer flights, typically. I like the direction airlines are going with premium economy tickets, expanding their seat selection in those higher classes. Overall it brings the prices of those cabins down, which helps. If airlines continue to expand their premium products, the prices will continue to become more affordable. A first class ticket across the Atlantic one-way is usually $5-700. Really affordable with all things considered. Premium economy is often just a little more expensive, but in return, my long legs don’t suffer having my knees pressed against the seats in front of me. I call it the “tall tax”. I can see airlines in the future rolling out 100% premium planes more and more often, like what we see with SQ22/23 and BA1/2. That’ll be there for those who want and can afford those products, just at a better price, and people still trying to pay as little as possible will continue to have plenty of options. It’s a win for everyone IMO.
It’s always fun to revisit the cabin service in the John Wayne film “The High and the Mighty”. I particularly liked the part where a disgruntled passenger pulls a revolver out of his pocket. The stewardess scolds him and tells him to put it back. Those were the days….
Another phenomena of the era was down on their luck buissnessmen (Because working class people still took the train back then or their car if they could afford it), boarding planes with dynamite from the general store, taking out a massive life insurance policy on and setting it off in the lavatory (Continental Flight 11 for example). there where also a bunch of assasinations/unwilling insurance scams that went like this back in those days.
I love flying. I love the feeling when the plane accelerates and the when the wings finally get lift. The feeling when the plane reaches flying altitude and it feels like one is weightless for some seconds. I love it especially if it’s a slightly rough flight and on can feel the physics behind it. Can somehow feel how the wings move the fuselage cuts through the air. Also when landing one feels how the flaps go higher the weight is put on the runway. The captain pushes the breaks. also, I do like the time one has. a perfect excuse to do nothing. one is lucky when witnessing a sun rise or set from above.- and at night when the whole plane sleeps. The light is dimmed and there is no other noice then the plane itself- silenced with some noice cancelling headphones as it‘s really loud actually XD. - I hate everything around it. Literally. Booking, getting to the airport. The airport itself and getting back from the airport. One gets paranoid of everything being a rip off trying to squeeze the next penny out of one’s pocket. Anxious ones luggage is a Gramm to heavy or a cm to big. Hopefully one doesn’t get hungry or thirsty out of schedule as the worlds worst sandwiches a glass of horrible water will cost a fortune when bought on the airport or plane. And one can never really be sure the journey is successful and one and one’s luggage arrive in time at the destination. Then one needs to find the stuff one couldn’t take in the luggage like simple old fashioned razor blades or aftershave. Outside the flight itself one feels like a criminal and a puppet of marketing. A punchingbag for economy. An evil the world has to endure. On every corner it says „I hate you because you’re poor - now eat that over priced junk and wait until we charge you 40euros for one Gramm of luggage“
Midwest Express, a Milwaukee based airline, had first-class service for all passengers. Wide leather seats, china place settings with silverware, free champagne, freshly baked chocolate chip cookies . . . through the 80s and 90s.
I recently flown on NEOS 787 premium economy from JFK to Milan. I felt it was totally worth the experience I received. From lounge access to bigger seats and leg room. Pre flight Prosecco and multi course meals just made our vacation trip extra special.
I'm tall and have worked all my life to build a successful business. Business or First Class is the only way I fly. Also, on international flights I like leaving the US East Coast at night, having a seat that will lay flat and getting some shut eye. I've found this greatly reduces my jet lag and it allows me to arrive in Europe in the AM which gives me an extra day. Perhaps someone can answer this question. I accidentally left a cork screw in my carry on and the TSA took it. When dinner was served I was given a proper steak knife - long sedated blade and a full size handle. Take my corkscrew and give me a steak knife. Really?
There are two possibilities: One, the TSA knows that hangry people can be dangerous. However, the large steak knife was provided to you when you had food in front of you, so you would not be agitated at this time. Two, the TSA is all just security theater to make it seem that the government is protecting us, even though the flight school where one of the 9/11 terrorists attended reported the suspicious behavior of the terrorist to the government, but the government did not act on this information, thus allowing the 9/11 attacks to occur. Hmm, I wonder which one of these possibilities is more likely. 🤔
Back in the 1999 I had to fly to Milwaukee for a job interview. Being only a couple of hours away from DC, a friend of mine recommended that I fly Midwest Express. It was an airline created by Kimberly Clark to transport their executives around. Every seat was first class. It was quite the experience.
I got to fly Midwest and it was amazing. I was fairly young and it set the bar for what I thought flying was. I’ve only been disappointed ever since that flight.
I still remember when 1st class upgrades were debuted by the airlines. Starting with TWA and their "FirstUp" program. I can recall walking up to the TWA gate agent and literally asking for a 1st class upgrade, and getting it. Granted, I was frequent flyer of TWA and was in their Ambassador class, iirc, but it was still something up until then I didn't dream of doing as an economy passenger. Speaking of LLCs, if you are in the US and need to visit Japan, be sure to look at ZipAir with their 787-8s and the "Lie-Flat" class. Lie-Flat is not quite a business class, as it has no IFE, but free internet, and no in-flight meals unless you pre-order the meal. You also need to pre-order a pillow and blanket, but at least you then get to keep it.
Thanks for looking that up! ...or it's 300% more than an economy seat. That is a lot of money when you consider 4 people can travel in economy for the price of just 1 of those seats. However, when you look at a flight from Boston to Heathrow you are looking at a long day of travel. The flight itself is about 6 hours and 45 minutes plus you have to add in the check-in time and commute to the airport and then getting your luggage and leaving the airport or rental car/transportation to where you will be staying so all in you are looking at about 10 hours travel (more or less)... Plus you have to do that twice if you are returning to Boston. (disregarding 2 month return) How important is that 7 hours in the airplane to someone...What is comfort worth? That is a huge difference for an average family of 4 going on vacation. 1,100 vs 4,500 (est) That's a 3,400 difference. That is a decent amount of spending cash for a family of 4 on vacation.
JetBlue is flying DUB-JFK from next March, and I’ve already booked Aer Lingus DUB-ORD to the USA next April, so I checked JB fares, expecting to get annoyed. But JB is actually more expensive to ORD, with a stop, than AL is non-stop.
The point is Jet Blue Mint is less expensive than most other mainline trans-Atlantic business class. I've shopped it as well - currently looks to be a great deal.
In the late 1990's and early 2000's, I had first class status on a U.S. based airline, simply because of how many day flight trips I had in a month. Every single one of my flights were about an hour (give or take 30 minutes). So, since I didn't pack an overnight bag (well, I always packed a change of clothes and a toothbrush in my carry on backpack), and the flight was about an hour, I didn't mind the regional jets I was flying on, and I got access to the first class lounges at both my departure and destination airports, where I could get a quiet place to work, some decent food, an occasional shower, a nap, etc. Today, I don't fly that much, so when I fly, I am stuck in economy (well, usually Southwest, which only has one class). *But* if I were to go on a dream vacation to either Europe or Asia, I will definitely add to my budget a first/business class ticket for the 10 to 18 hour flight over the ocean (you choose, Pacific or Atlantic). I am unwilling to be in a can of sardines for half a day, and I am willing to pay the price.
Similar boat here, for anything over around 4 hours I budget for business class, especially international. 18-20 hours from Chicago to Hong Kong or India in economy? No frigging way. There’s another reason why, when I hit the other end, I have to go to work, I can’t chill out and recover. I get myself into a local sleep schedule on the flight so when we arrive I’ve ready to go.
That's what I do too. Once a year I cross the ocean. And as an older person I am not putting up with economy when I can make it into a full flat seat at a reasonable price. Can't take the money with me into the pearly gates.
I would, but I find it difficult to justify the AT LEAST 2.5 times cost of the tickets for which is basically a (ok, long, we usually fly FRA-LAX) bus ride. I would rather use that money at the destination for a premium experience. And ve done so.
@@inyobill Not everybody can afford it. That's the reason there are discounted seats in "C" because they cannot always fill up. And then it is my turn to yoink that ticket.
More companies are changing their staff travel policies. In my company the old policy was if the flight has airtime less than 5 hours then the ticket should be economy and if more, we could book business class. The new rule is if the flight takes less than 3 hours, the ticket must be economy. If airtime between 3 to 10 hours, it should be premium economy and only if more than 10 hours, we can book business. For me who lives in Europe, this means all europian flight must be booked in economy (normally 70% of our destinations).
A number of years ago I was helping my mother pack in preparation to move house when I came across a plane ticket (Melbourne, Australia to London) from the late 70’s. I was surprised to see that the cost of the ticket was more or less the same dollar value as a modern flight on the same route, and that’s before applying inflation. Whenever I fly long haul, I seek out flights that offer PE cabins, specifically those that offer a better seat to Economy. For me the journey is just as important as the destination, and too often we take flying for granted. We should always celebrate the marvel that is flight and try to enjoy the experience as much as possible (or at least as far as our budget allows!).
We have taken Ryanair flights throughout Europe for less than the cost of a lunch. For short trips, it's like taking a bus. We travel with only carry-ons and buy a snack at the airport just before boarding. There is no way a long haul airline can match their model.
I flew to Sardinia from southern Germany for a price even an apprentice could afford. Yeah, it felt like a bus, and a bus ticket fare to match, even though it was technically an "international" flight
To anyone complaining, just ask them if they’d be willing to pay $4,000 in todays dollars for a seat like those old photos, and watch it get awful quiet.
And any 1st tier airlines business class these days is FAR better than any "First class" seat of the 1970's. Lay flat vs Big Recliner? There is no comparison. A roast carved on the trolley? Sorry, That doesn't make up for paying so much to SIT UP for a long haul flight. And lets not mention SAFETY now compared to then... @@Secretlyanothername
@@Secretlyanothername Business class today is truly amazing, But I personally rarely get to fly it. But that is okay when an economy ticket is 1/5th the price. ANA's Business class in my opinion is nearly first class tier on many other airlines, but I cannot make that statement as the only time I flew first class was on Air Canada, which isn't that great.
I used to use them a lot, but since covid I have found that their quality has deteriorated significantly. My latest airline I now use is Kuwait Airlines, mainly because they have better planes.
@@TIMMEH19991 I heard the same about Emirates, too, so when it comes to quality the airlines from Arab countries seem to be on another level, no European airline can compete with them - and I have the bad feeling that they not even want to do so, neither Lufthansa, nor KLM, not even Swiss. European airlines just don't care about customer experience but efficiancy is their main and only goal.
@@c.s.4273 Emirates has basically 2 fleets. The "nice" fleet that flies to western countries and has the most current cabin offering and a tolerable economy cabin and the "India bus" fleet which have their older cabins and an absolutely awful economy product, those are the planes that fly the "help" over from India. Qatar is similar with their Q suites cabin vs their older cabin, Q suites only fly on routes to rich countries.
Low cost carriers have the advantage and the big disadvantage of often being single type only. While it makes the operations cheaper and allows for better crew exchangeability, if your one type gets grounded, has issues, or has a required change, your whole fleet is down and you loose everything. Not only long haul, but this happened to many carriers, both with Airbus and Boeing aircraft types, and their engines, quite a few times in the recent past.
I agree! Flying Lufthansa business often. Its for sure not premium airline anymore, low quality and very old seats & lounges. Aircrew is most of the time great , can not understand why Lufthansa can not travel to US or Dubai for lessons learned.
Premium economy isn't such a new idea. Virgin Atlantic were offering exactly this in the mid 2000s. My wife and I flew Manchester to Orlando in 2005. The premium economy seats were in the upper lounge of the 747. Plenty of space, big comfy seats, and great food.
I mostly fly US domestic on Delta (since they ate Northwest). The seat choices are First, Comfort+, and Main. Comfort+ is a Main seat with extra legroom. I find the Comfort+ seat more comfortable than First as long as no one is in the middle seat. I used to buy in Main and then upgrade to Comfort+ when I checked in (online, 24 before departure). But the paid upgrades became less available over time and I had to start buying Comfort+ tickets (and noting the price difference since I am only getting reimbursed for Main). But on my last flight, booking six weeks ahead of time, only two middle seats were available in Comfort+ on one leg and I booked in Main, which was sparsely booked, for the return. However when I checked in for the return I was offered a really inexpensive First class upgrade which I took. Another thing that I have noticed is the decline in the amenities offered in Comfort+. The 3 inches of extra legroom and “dedicated” overhead space still make it worth it but I remember how it used to be and feel I am getting cheated out of something.
As someone that can't be called short, I definitely prefer enough legroom on long haul. 2-3 hours I can survive being squeezed in cattle class from a low cost carrier, but 10-12 hours? Don't think so, flying in and of itself is uncomfortable enough due to noise and dehydration.
NY to London $550 in 1960 but you wouldn't be riding on a 747 back then, if you were lucky you got a 707 6-7 hours if not you got a DC-7 or a Conny 12-14 hours.
My wife and I are going on our "trip of a lifetime" for a month in NZ and Oz...we are flying from Toronto Pearson to Melbourne...and the only thing I am dreading, the only thing, is the airport/airline experience...airline better figure out that while they are having their way now, times change...frankly I get tired of arguing with airlines to only get what I actually paid for.
Dude, the airlines are delivering exactly what the mass market is demanding, low fares above all else. Pay for a higher class if you don't like the economy experience.
No need to go to the airport with a negative attitude, as being on edge is likely to induce the experience you wish to avoid. Just relax, expect some wait times and understand if you paid for cramped coach seats you're going to get cramped coach seats. You do only get what you actually paid for. 😉
BA's World Traveller Plus (Premium Economy) is a perfect example of the new trend. The seats are different to economy seats however. They are wider, recline a lot more and have larger screens than their economy seats. They have more leg room and feature a smaller cabin too, typically in 2-4-2 layout on their 777s (BA only offer this cabin on long haul). I flew in this cabin with them from Heathrow to Atlanta, and back. The price was pretty reasonable. Food was good, service excellent.
I’ve flown KLM & Iberia premium economy recently and it was nearly as good as business. I’ve flown business many times for various technical reasons and yes the biz seats are superior. However, the gap between economy and premium economy is so much bigger and worthwhile than the gap between premium economy and business for most 8-13hr flights. Given the price difference there’s a lot of value to be found in premium economy.
In 2014, an emirates return flight from LGW to PER cost 750 uk pounds. In 2019, the same trip at exactly the same time of year cost exactly the same amount. In 2023, the same trip cost me 1800 uk pounds. And the aircraft on all four legs were absolutely full on this last trip, whereas all my previous trips had some empty seats. I’d be very surprised if Emirates were struggling financially at the moment.
Euro-business class as offered by LH, AF, or LX is actually a rip-off as one usually pays a substantial higher fare than Y class but is offered an economy class seat with the middle seat blocked for more space. In contrast, flying domestic (!!!) business class in China includes a full sized business or first class seat (much akin to first class in the U.S.) in a 2-2 configuration which is often available at rather attractive rates , for example on Shenzhen Airlines or Hainan Airlines.
I think most of their offer is supposed to be the experience before you board and after you leave (skypriority and lounge). However you get these exact same things if you're a higher tier frequent flyer anyway. While I agree it's not a great deal I'm the wrong person to argue because I've never paid for anything else than economy in my life. I often find a great seat with seat maps.
Don’t forget that before deregulation, an airplane ticket was just like having cash in your pocket. An airplane ticket on one airline was good on any airline that covered the same route. Also airline tickets were redeemable for cash. In 1982, I still paid $700 for a coach fare between Great Falls, Montana and Chicago O’Hare. But the food was good and there were no delays.
Back during the Johnny Carson era when the show would fly stand up comics out to perform on the show, many comics would exchange their first class tickets booked by the show for economy seats allowing them to receive hundreds of dollars, sometimes even thousands of dollars, for downgrading their ticket. Good times.
$700 in 1982 adjusted for inflation is $2200.00. Great falls to Chicago round trip on Delta economy can be had for $217.00 today. $857.00 for business class. We often look back through rose colored lenses.
As I'm approaching my mid sixties I will spring for comfort class on long haul flights. I can't sit in economy for 8+ hours anymore. It cost more but in my opinion it's worth it.
I love how Petter says “it would make this video unbearably long” … am I the only one who thinks there’s no such thing as too long when Mentour releases a video? 😂
I recently flew on a United Airlines 767-400 in Premium Plus from MAD to IAD and it was a real upgrade. The seats had a larger pitch, reclined farther and had a leg rest that came up when the seat reclined. The seat was also more padded with an adjustable headrest and a wide fixed armrest between the seats. The amenities were much better too. The food was better and there were more choices with liquor included. They included a headset (not cheap earbuds) and real blanket and pillow and an amenity kit. It isn't business class, but much cheaper and well worth the increased cost from regular economy. A really good option on a long haul (8 hour) flight.
Air travel creates some wild videos of fights and lunatics using air travel. Spirit Airlines seems to appeal to the dregs of society busting up the places and vulgarities by usually obese people. How they fit in 17.75 inch wide and 28 inch pitch seats is amazing.
I flew Norse about a month ago from Rome to NYC, their premium cabin (the first dozen or so rows with 2/3/2 configuration and wide reclining seats) cost about 230 EUR to upgrade to from economy. Food was unimpressive, though wine was complimentary. Completely worth it for the roomy comfortable seat. The upgrade was advertised at check in.
Why would anyone wish to pay extra for early boarding? The few times I flew, I always preferred to board really among the last entering the plane. We all arrive at the same time anyway.
The overhead lockers might be full by then, causing tussles, everyone wanna be first to stow their carry-on (not carrion!) 😂 edit: me last to board, last to exit. Taking it easy. And the chats and goodbyes with the cabin crew after the flight are well worth it.
@@alli3219I only flew 3-4 times in the last 20 years... but having my carry on under the seat in front of me seems more practical... Even when there was space above, I would just put my back-pack under the seat in front so there is no need stand up to access it.
When Singapore Airlines refurbished their A380s a couple of years ago the new standard economy seat was reduced to the comfort of a suburban train seat. Dreadful. Their Premium Economy class is poor value, the roominess is nice but the reclining seat with the leg rest digging into the calf of your leg is ridiculous, not at all comfortable. Business Class is something else altogether though, really good and something I am not prepared to pay for out of taxed income! And then again, the cabin crew's efficiency can make a big difference. Being offered food and drinks service at the right time is great, but food served 15 minutes before the accompanying drink is just plain poor, and even 5 star SIA are guilty of that these days, twas never so 20 years ago. I was hoping that the FAA review into seats and safety would produce a better experience for economy passengers with just a little more leg room and wider seats, but no it didn't. There really does seem to be a race to the bottom. Over the last few years I have travelled with Air Canada, TAP, SIA and Air Canada have the most comfortable economy seats, but then the flight is short at just 8.5 hours!!!
I expect the same kind of experience in coach as traveling on the Long Island Rail Road without the waste of time and security hassle of an airport. Plus people are better dressed on the train.
They may be better dressed but are more slovenly. I lived in Westchester and took Metro north daily. The difference between LIRR and MNRR is night and day. Long Islanders threw trash everywhere, yelled loudly into cell phones, had no manners or couth. Hop on the Harlem, New Haven and Hudson line and it would for the most part be quiet and clean (minus the local trains stopping in the Bronx). Don't get me wrong I love long Island and used to live out there but I'll get on a plane with MNRR riders anyway of the week before LIRR
I get annoyed having to pay for business class because I’m confined to a wheelchair. They’ve made aisles so narrow and legroom so small in economy that although they have aisle chairs for immobile passengers, they’re too small for a wheelchair passenger to transfer into their seat. Getting out is even harder. You can’t book bulkhead or bassinet seats either as the armrests are rigid and can’t be raised to do a slide on/off transfer. Airlines don’t want to have to deal with disabled people so they make it difficult or expensive to travel. To visit family in the US costs me around $40k return (I’m in Australia). My able bodied husband pays less than $2k in economy and we sit apart. If I need anything in transit (medication or repositioning my paralysed legs) the cabin crew has to go get him from economy to help. Wheelchair accessible economy would be very helpful.
It's kinda discrimination... The A-D legislation though says that if reasonable accommodation causes undue (financial) hardship on the person or business providing a service, exceptions can be made. I'm sure a multi-million/billion dollar airline company will not qualify for "undue hardship" 😂 🇦🇺🙋🏼♀️
Personally my 2 frustrations are the seats (train seats are very comfy, please slap them in an aircraft thanks) and the lack of places to rest in the airport (tons.of.people on the floor to sleep or work).
I like where I live so not really motivated to leave my island. If I took airlines it is two hour drive to the airport costing $60 round trip for tolls and gas. The airlines demand a 3 hour check-in since international flight. The flight is two hours plus 30 minutes to get bag and clear customs. A 2 hour flt consumes 7.5 hours. I have not been on an airliner in 6 or 8 years and I used to be a pilot for a living and not worth the trouble. I have other ways off the island.
Passengers aren't demanding Premium Economy, they're damanding to be treated like human beings. Airlines squeezing Economy with sub-17" seat widths and 28" seat pitch, and at the same time offering Premium Economy with over-18" seat width and 32-33" seat pitch are simply reviving traditional economy. It's a situation they created, and are profiting off of it.
They may demand to be treated better, but when actually faced with the choice most passengers prioritise price over comfort. What people say they want often doesn't match what they actually choose.
@@thomasdalton1508 > *most passengers prioritise price over comfort* Because the airlines, dishonestly, frame it like that. It's bullshit, period. Even Forbes published opinion piece(s) about how Gerard Arpey's reasoning for American Airlines removing "More Room Throughout Coach" was bullshit. The airlines would be able to operate fully without CEOs making multi million bonuses, or making less - and that money going back into the airlines, for instance. (And no, tempting as it is, I wouldn't trust govt to bring on such a change of ops - people realizing the false dichotomy and doing something about it would)P.
Back between 2010 and 2014 I went between New York and London frequently, and sometimes got a better night's sleep in the flat seats on those old BA 747s then I did at home.
airlines would much rather you spend the money for anything other then economy. watched a viedo by wendover productions titled "economics of airline class" in the example they used the next class above economy class with something like 1/3rd of the passengers made about the same money per ticket, this is based on memory so not exact. its very much a "you get what you pay for" experience.
Airlines are only responding to the free market choices of the flying public. Ask any airline executive why the seats don't have more room, and he'll tell you that's how 80% of the people vote with their wallets. And the poors always choose low fares > bigger seats. And there's only so much space on an airplane. As @ARockRaider points out the airlines would LOVE for you to spend more for larger seats in contrast to what 80% of the customers actually choose. So blame it on the passengers not the airlines, comrade!
@@uclajd Wouldn't that be assuming that it's a choice between the seats being uncomfortable, and very expensive? IDK, it seems like with anything in any business, it's not that simple, and there are a lot of variables that come into play, IDK. It just feels sus to me.
@@DanknDerpyGamer I can't speak to comfort, but most people think more leg room and reclining seats are key to comfort (I know my back cares about reclining). As far as comfy seats, they do have to be flotation devices, no? So they can find your bobbing corpse in the ocean for a decent burial.
This makes me wonder what my parents paid to fly me from Atlanta (Delta) to Dallas and then on to Tulsa (American) in 1966. I’m an 8 year old, in suit and tie, sitting next to an also well heeled adult who was kind enough to tell me what I would experience on my first flight aboard a DC-8. He went over take-off, cruise, and landing (describing thrust reverse) and went out of his way to calm me. My parents couldn’t prep me because neither had ever flown. This man also ordered me a second Coke and told me what to do when I needed to go to the bathroom. I can’t picture him nor any of the flight attendants (called stewardesses in that time) but I can still recall the feeling of being cared for as well as a long look at the cockpit departing the plane. I don’t know that any of this was corporate policy. I have a feeling it was just good people looking out for a kid. I’m guessing that still exists, but who would send their 8 year old off alone on a flight today?
Before the pandemic we flew United's Polaris Business Class when there was still a First Class cabin. The BC seats were lay flat and had a bit of room around them but were not the separated cubes we have today and had then in First Class. We recently flew United Polaris BC round trip to Italy. I thought, with the new cube like seats, it would be like the old first class or at least the equal of the older 3 class BC Seats. Low and behold, they are not as good as the old first class and in my opinion are not an upgrade or even the equal of the older BC cabin. They have done this switch, it appears, by cramming more rows in shorter space angling the seats so the cube overlaps the row just ahead. There is a gap to get through to get to the seat that is narrow. I have a problem the result of a lung operation that left my side with a bulge due to nerves that were damaged in the operation. I'm not a small guy anyway but I am not one of those 2 seat giants who need belt extenders and cram themselves into one economy middle seat. Anyway getting through that gap was actually quite difficult. Once in you are faced with a ton of 'gifts' to make your flight better but no where to put them that does not impinge on your leg room or somewhere else. The lay flat seat was, for me, not comfortable flat at all. The 10 hour flight back from Rome I simply put the seat back into a 1/2 way back position and was way more comfortable than flat. I wish they would bring back the older BC seat layout. I could sit right next to my wife in a window seat and hold hands and talk and the seats were actually roomier
I always have a little bit mixed feeling about these divisions in transportation. What i mean by that is, that i hope no one will get tempted to downgrade economy class to the point, where it will actually become uncomfortable to fly, just so more and more people decide to pay more. Economy is used by many and for many it is the door to travel. I wouldnt want to see in future 5 classes in a plane, where the fifth is passengers strapped to pufas in cargo compartment :))
You are forgetting that that very cheap price is the maximum that some travellers can afford to pay and also, if everyone paid for premium the budget seats would be empty, which makes no sense to anyone
The perk I’d pay extra for is increased odds of actually getting there in time. Southwest used to be really good about this. They used secondary airports not just to reduce landing fees but also to avoid the congestion of the big hubs where one little SNAFU or weather event could make dozens of planes late. They got me there on time while the other airlines complained that the delay was due to weather, ATC, or other factors out of their control. It was t really out of their control. They just left no margin for error. I’d love to see airlines forced to publish statistics on how often any given flight reaches its destination within 20 minutes of when it’s supposed to. Then the public could avoid that flight that’s always late because La Guardia needs to land a plane every 2 minutes during that peak time or they get backed up all morning.
The whole aviation system has adapted to society in general .. a clown-world! - Glad I got to travel the globe during the better years 1970-2020. - Now "they" could not pay me enough to go through airport security. -
I remember the earlier attempts at low cost long haul. People Express and Laker Skytrain were well known, but there was also the earlier form of Icelandic, who in the 1980s flew DC-8s between Luxembourg and places in the US (Baltimore and other such cities), with stopovers in Iceland en route. They ran coaches between Luxembourg and Cologne, where passengers could get train connections onwards. It was common to see their planes running very late because of some tech problem; it wasn't unknown for a flight to turn up the next day. Why? Because they didn't have spare planes if something went wrong. Laker and People got squashed by rival airline pricing. Virgin Atlantic also started in a similar fashion with old 747s flying out of Gatwick to the US; for a while they had a connecting flight from Maastricht to Gatwick using a Viscount aircraft from the 1950s. The Virgin magazine proudly claimed that all their aircraft had four engines.
Regarding Premium Economy, airlines basically figured out there was a group of folks who were willing to pay more for a seat comparable to a domestic first class seat, but took one look at business class and said, “nope, I’m good”.
They needed a product they could sell since the extra legroom seats were mostly going to people with points status since the new seat designs largely make the extra legroom seats redundant. The newest seat designs are actually amazing in their ability to make a 30 or 31 inch seat pitch feel reasonably comfortable. Often better than the 31 or 32 inch pitches of previous seat designs. Worst seat I've ever flown on was a 31in pitch United seat from circa 2012 on a 737-800, I flew their newer though not newest 737-900 cabin last year and the 30in pitch seat actually was a lot more comfortable, not the best econ seat ever, but certainly tolerable for a domestic flight.
I flew an American Airlines 777 recently from London to Los Angeles. The Business and Premium Economy cabins were full, and the Economy cabin was only about 20% full. The AA Premium Economy has 8 seats across like they used to have a decade ago in Economy, but now Economy has 10 seats across 3-4-3. The premium seats are similar design but a little bigger and further apart. Then AA has another option that they call Main Cabin Extra that has exactly the same seats but an extra 3-4 inches of leg room. That is what I get, since I am 193 cm or 6’4” tall. AA typically charges about $100-$150 per leg to upgrade to Main Cabin Extra.
we tall people do suffer and have to pay for it. I'm 6'5". I always upgrade to an exit aisle seat, as you have unlimited legroom. However in a 777 you still have to put up with the horribly uncomfortable seat.
Just had a flight with BA, they don't even give a drink outside of water and a scrappy cookie. For twice the price of of easyjet on a 4 hours flight. Not getting better.
15:00 "This is actually very central in how the Gulf airlines can work the way they do…" It also doesn't hurt that they are wholly owned by their governments, and thus get a lot of sweetheart deals.
Related to domestic traffic, 50yr ago an interview with airline ceo was asked when better seats and food? Answer “never”. People say they want those things but they buy the cheapest ticket. Now planes and airports are like bus travel. Its so bad things finally bouncing the other way.
There is literally nothing about the travel "experience" that appeals. Horrific Airport experiences including queues and poor/rude staff with security and customs/border control. Coupled with overpriced tickets for small seats, add ons for everything and considerably poor service from bored and disinterested air crew and the whole thing stinks. It once was a fun prospect but if we are being honest,it's lacking in many ways these days and is just a necessary evil to get to where we are going.
Agree. This is why I try very hard to fly non-stop flights anymore. I am willing to drive 2+ hours to DC or take the train to NYC from northern VA where I live in order to do so.
Buying a ticket on Frontier is a flimflam. By the time you pay for the add ons it’s the same price as United and at least United gives you a seat that doesn’t feel like a cement block.
@slapshot0074 - forgot to add to your list your fellow passengers...how alas many of the traveling public are just plain *^&^&^^)&^& and you wonder why you get "bad" service from the air crews?
I don’t understand the comment you made about “analyzing how low cost airlines work would make the video unbearably long…”. I could watch your content for hours 😊. Thank you for all the cool insights into the aviation industry. 🎉
2nd generation A-P mech on my 40th year at UAL ,I’ve been flying standby all my life domestically and internationally. The best food was first class on a dc10 BOS to SFO and the seafood spread well it was a buffet.The California commuter dc-8 lounge in the back and a lot of cigarettes.
The last FIRST CLASS Delta ticket I bought did not include lounge access because it was 30 minutes too short of a flight, Delta has too many restrictions on access to their lounges. If you buy a FIRST CLASS ticket you should get lounge access period!
Very good analysis, and I note how many comments you got in less than one day! You could have added that there are no longer any chairs in most check in areas. And people of advanced age and with disabilities must wait in long lines. Meantime, the much more poverty stricken transit agencies delivering people to the airport must go to great lengths to provide accessible facilities.
In a way I am glad that you did NOT mention “seat pitch”. Because it is a very misleading metric to compare the space you get from one airplane to the next. As the construction of the seat has a very significant impact on the available space you get as a passenger, even if the “seat pitch” is the same. As an example consider my experience with Copa Airlines in 2017: Their advertised “seat pitch” was 31 inches; but the difference in seat construction was all that mattered between triggering a claustrophobic panic attack or not. In some situations the space available was as low as 40cm in which to squeeze my head. Then there is also a significant difference between “domestic business class” of legacy carriers in Europe and North America. The single aisle aircraft in Europe will more often than not just block out the middle seat of their standard economy seating to create a 2+2 layout and use a moveable curtain to adapt the cabin size to demand. But the “seat pitch” is more or less the same throughout the whole airplane. So you only get more elbow room and more overhead bin space, but NOT more legroom. Meanwhile the single aisle planes in North America generally have a genuine 2+2 seat layout that also includes more longitudinal space as well for their “domestic business class”. In 2021 I had to make a trip from Europe to South America, and due to claustrophobia I had booked in business class. For the intra-european segments I had one in a bulkhead seat and the other not. And in the later I suffered a claustrophobic panic attack. In the summer of 2023 on a trip to Canada I booked the transatlantic segments in “premium economy” and the canadian segments in “domestic business”. Comparing the two transatlantic airlines (though in the same alliance) with the domestic segments, I can say that international premium economy and domestic business (in North America) have more or less the same seat space and cabin service product. Instead of using the “seat pitch” as a passenger space metric, a much better passenger space (and comfort) metric would be to measure the space between the headrest of your full upright seat and the fully reclined seat-back in front of you, as well as the same seat configuration at the pelvic level (lumbar support to knee position). Because not everybody wants to (or can) be fully reclined. Also, putting your carry-on bag under the seat in front of you significantly reduces your legroom and contributes to triggering claustrophobia.
Seat pitch is indeed something that a lot of people think they understand (because it seems straightforward) but I didn't mention it because it's... complicated. Maybe in a separate video.
This may sound crazy but crazy things over time have been coming true. There are groups, states, and nations already planning on restricting pleasure air travel with personal carbon allowances enforced through Central Banks Digital Currencies in the future to save the earth. Air travel creates 2% of CO2 and they can't have it. Australia only creates 1% and that nation is hell bent on going back to cave man days. We already have 15 minute ghettos being started to restrict auto travel and limit movement. These same people are messing with the food supplies so don't air travel will be exempt from the madness.
What really sucks is the size of the seats in economy. They get smaller and smaller. They are only usable for children and people smaller than 1.60m. (my experience in Airbusses NEO's)
We had a carrier in the USA called Midwest Express. It was First Class seating with hot meals and wine service for every seat. It made it all the way to the Great Recession be for selling off to Frontier. It had an unusual origin as it started as the corporate transport for paper company Kimberly Clark.
I really like ME as well. I flew as a service tech so, even though the tickets were more expensive, the direct flights to some destinations offset the fare increase with the cost of hours saved. I would fly them every chance I got. But the thing that kept them alive for so long was the KC subsidy. Their model was not sustainable.
We have to remind ourselves that those videos from the days when airlines were regulated are promotional videos. And not necessarily reflective of the true airline experience. I can remember when DC-10's and L-1011's first came out, they showed cocktail lounges onboard. Of course the airlines quickly learned it made more sense to put seats there. But on the issue of splitting the cabin classes, can you imagine how complex that would be if they still had to allow for "smoking" rows in each class? I know many smokers can barely make thru the flight these days. And as guy who works in the terminals, the first thing some deplaning passengers ask is, "where can I smoke?"
What I miss is what was a typical business class on long haul flights in '70s and '80s. That would be a bit better than what some airlines now introduce as "premium economy" - roomy, but not lay-flat seats (say, four abreast on 747 upper deck, 2+2+2 on the main - yeah, something like that at 19:26) with reasonable but not luxurious amenity pack (mostly toiletries, slippers, eye mask...), free entertainment, decent food and beverage service included in the price.* Today we mostly have either deep vein thrombosis inducing cattle class, or personal cocoons up to and including "residences" for those who pay with other people's money, but still don't have enough of that for a proper private jet. (And don't make me laugh with "business jet" - people who business have to cart around like _now_ are _engineers;_ management can do their job or "job" as efficiently (or more) using teleconferencing - for them the jets are merely status symbols.) But, yes, flexible scheduling full fare intercontinental return ticket on KLM, SwissAir or Lufthansa with perhaps a short connecting flight was about $3-4k in early '80s. *) Well, yes, and smoking cabin, but I know I will not get that unless I splurge for private jet charter, and perhaps not even then.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
Black Friday deal! Use code mentournow at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan: incogni.com/mentournow
Hello
Can really recommend Incogni. Took Mentour's offer up earlier and let Incogni go to work. It took a few days, but then the junk mail just quit coming. Incogni's really worth it!
My biggest gripe about air travel is not the aircraft or the seats or the "toys" in business class but the time wasted at airports. Having to check in hours before the flight, endless ques and security checks. I remember flying from London Heathrow to Dusseldorf in the 1960s when the check-in was just 30 mins before boarding. But now its a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare just getting to the aircraft. Faffing around with seat sizes and in flight toys is not the answer. I just want to buy a ticket and get on the plane!
I get why you'd want all those checks to go away, because all you want is to get ON the plane.
However, those checks are there for the people who would also like to get OFF the plane at some point, as well! >)
@@gregsomlai297
We manage without them on trains, so what’s the big deal ?
Exactly my issue with traveling these days. I have options as far as seating choices, but not so much for the airport experience. I don't fly very often, so pre-TSA/ClearMe are not really good products, but I dread every time I have to go through the TSA security lines, especially in a major hub on a Friday. I did exactly that in Atlanta a month or two ago - I joined the ridiculously long line 2 hours before my flight and barely made it to the gate. And I was on my own. Add my family with two toddlers and it becomes hell on Earth.
Yes and how often do you read about tests of the security failing with testers getting weapons on planes.
Then we have the grandma arrested with having CBD oil
@@ThomasJoseph-sq9jl My father lived in Atlanta. You have my sympathy. Even before the TSA hassle dealing with the airport logistics is horrible. My father worked in aviation and when I arrived to visit complaining about the entire experience he would remind me airports are designed to service the planes not the people.
When talking about the death of regular TV, I often cite your channel as why.
Old shows about air disasters had pilots yelling jargon and flipping overhead switches.
Your channels are professional, honest and and respectful of viewer, and I can't recommend you enough!
Thank you so much!
Exactly. I can't stand air crash investigation now
It's like with the historical documentaries on TV versus what I see on TH-cam - one is patronising and caters to the lowest common denominator (who probably won't watch it) and the other revels in complexity and depth; beyond that I find many TV documentaries tend to meddle in the Cultural Wars without sense of perspective or awareness.
It's the 'contentification' of the internet. Nothing is 'art' or 'entertainment' anymore, it's all just bland 'content'. Petter still puts out art.
@@memofromessex But TV has also changed. There are fewer documentaries made for commercial free television (like the old BBC) and they are all following the same sensationalism and repetition of the same questions, eventually answered five minute from the end. It is all bout making people stay for the commercial, not about people being interested in the subject.
I genuinely think the small size of seats and aisles is becoming a safety issue.
Whenever they do 90 second evacuation tests, they don’t use normal people, they use their own (tiny, young, fit) staff.
In my opinion every airplane should have to demonstrate they can meet 90 seconds using a randomly selected group of people recruited for this activity, including the 40% overweight, elderly people, etc.
It should be necessary to demonstrate that there is enough space between seats where if the middle and aisle passenger are incapacitated an average-sized window passenger could still squeeze by, including if the seats before are reclined when the accident happens.
Or don't be fat and poor and expect a huge seat lol.
You are so right! Unfortunately, it will probably take an entirely preventable disaster with a huge loss of life before anything is done about the current, unacknowledged safety issues.
@@cczivit's crazy how literally nothing changes about humanity
Well fortunately that 90 second escape window has just been wonderfully illustrated, in Japan, by the 379 passengers escaping from the burning Airbus A350 in less than 90 seconds on only 3 inflatable slides. Thankfully everything worked out for those people who are all okay. 👍🏼
If they have to run the test that way, given the size and shape of the average American they’d only have room for two columns of seats by the window each and the rest would have to be open space in the middle. Also, might have to install a moving sidewalk in the plane . 😂😂
The most memorable flight I ever had was in 1960 when I was 13!! It was on board a Short Solent flying boat from Suva, Fiji to Tahiti. It was operated by Tasman Empire Airways Ltd. (TEAL) - the forerunner of Air NZ.
The flight left Suva in the morning and arrived in Western Samoa late the same afternoon. We then departed in the early hours of the next morning for Aitutaki Is. in the Cook Islands. The passengers went ashore for a swim in the sea and breakfast on the beach under the palm trees! In the meantime fuel was hand-pumped into the aircraft tanks from a barge alongside. Then we left Aitutaki around 10 am and my younger brother and I were invited to the flight deck for the takeoff!! We simply stood behind the pilots' seats and experienced the tremendous engine noise from the 4 Bristol Hercules engines and the thrill as we eventually lifted off the water. I can still see the skipper's hands on the 4 throttle levers.
We were in sight of Moorea Is. about 2pm and soon landed at Papeete, Tahiti. When we saw Moorea, the skipper announced that the island was in sight and everyone rushed across to the left (port) side to see the beautiful island from our 10,000 foot ceiling. Then he came back on the speaker and asked that everyone get back in their seats because he was having a problem keeping the old girl in the air in its unbalanced state!!
That was the second to last flight of the TEAL Coral Route, as it was known. A truly memorable experience never to be repeated.
Airlines are pretty much Greyhound busses with wings now. And the passengers are the same
But we also pay bus ticket prices.
@@Secretlyanothername that is part of the problem I’m thinking
If you want to avoid the plebs, buy business class or first class
@@linuxman7777 I do when I have to fly.
It's all about to change if WEF get their way. They want to discourage the common man from flying and make it an exclusive reserve for the elites only. Whether it's through some kind of taxation to put it out our reach or introduction of legislation that makes it impossible for the plebs to get authorisation to use air travel, that's where we're headed. This could also explain why the airline companies are already reconfiguring their fleets to be ready for the future. Fewer passengers and only high earners allowed.
To me some different cabin class solutions that have been popping up are really interesting. Zipair for example is flying from Tokyo to San Francisco with a lie flat seat without a screen or meal service. But if you are like me 195cm tall and just want to sleep on the flight, an offering like this is really attractive.
The main reason I don't like flying is all the annoying crap that comes with it. It starts with the baggage limits, then the journey to the airport, the nerve-wracking waiting at the airport, the running around, all the annoying security checks and then screaming babies that drive you crazy during the flight. When I finally arrive at my destination, I'm so stressed that three vacation days are spent just recovering from the flight.
In the meantime, I only travel by car because it's much more comfortable. I can look for an interesting route, set off whenever I want and stop here, have a look there. I can take as much luggage with me as I want and don't have any annoying fellow travelers. And when I arrive, I've seen a lot on the way and I have my own car with me, so I don't need a rental car.
In Canada, its cheaper to fly from city to city than drive.
you are poor and live in the USA? or just live in the USA?
@@qbi4614 I live in Central Europe.
Driving sucks though, for anything over 100mi. You have to focus while driving, while on the plane you can just relax and watch an inflight movie, the waiting does kinda suck at the airport, but you do make up for it in reduced travel time. Not to mention that air travel is many times safer than driving. It really is a question of is more luggage worth your time and safety? if not, then fly.
It takes you 3 days to recover??
It is better now 😊
My father told me that he flew from Stockholm Sweden to South Rodesia (Zimbabwe now) in Africa during the early 1950's.. The trip took three days with a DC 3. First day Stocholm - Paris, second day Paris - northern/central Africa, third day the last leg to South Rodesia. Two hotel nights included in the ticket price.
I remember Pan Am Clipper Class. Took many trips around Asia. 2-3-2 seat config, free mixed drinks, way upgraded food, silverware, wide seats. The price was decent. The old 747s had about 40 or 50 of those seats behind first class. Loved those Pan Am 747s.
Fantastic! I loved the Pan Am 747's as well, they were a sight to behold.
You love the price as well? Must have been 3000$ in today's money.
In 1979, my family was 'bumped' off a flight (can't remember the Airline) from Hawaii to N.Y. stopping in L.A.
With a prospective 11 hour layover, I instead, went up to the Pan Am counter & saw one of their flights was
leaving in an hour! They took our non-Pan Am tickets & let us fly to N.Y. (no extra charge) arriving only 2.5. hrs.
late! Pan Am will always remain "The King of the Skies" to me!
They also had clipper class seats in the upper deck of the 747s. My one and only 747 flight was on the upper deck of a Pan Am 747 in clipper class when I was a kid. they even ran those on domestic flights between NY and Florida.
Wages kept up with cost living back then.
@@ralfzacherl9942
Minor detail: a regular interstate trip we do which (allowing for inflation) cost about $1800 in today’s money in the early 1970s, now can usually be picked up for about $150- $170.
Unless you’re buying a seat at the last minute and traveling at peak time in holiday season, the price is now a tiny fraction of what it used to be, literally 10% or even less.
These are literally business class prices. You can get the same service today, you just have to pay
After you’ve flown in an unheated C130 or C141 sitting on a canvas bench for hours anything is a step up.
Maybe but how much did you pay?
@@shrimpfleahe gave a buck 0 five.
Yep, done that. Try asking for a beer on one of them lol!
19:22 I agree with the nice Middle Eastern gentleman.
Earlier this year I have flown from Atlanta to Amsterdam and back in Delta’s Economy Comfort+ and almost $1k extra a ticket can hardly justify benefits.
- one step up in boarding
- few in of extra leg room
- movable foot rest (all of them were not functional on all seats I could see)
- “guaranteed” pillow, blanket and headphones
- complimentary alcoholic beverages.
A long time ago, airlines learned that people would be willing to endure brief periods of discomfort for cheap airfares. They responded accordingly.
Exactly. If the flying public wants to blame someone for the cramped conditions and horrible service they only need look in a mirror. Or pay up for premium seating which, adjusted for inflation, is cheaper than tickets back in the "good old days."
No one pays $69 for a hotel room and expects a Four Seasons experience. But somehow people expect airlines to be different?
that is utter garbage, have you actually seen the price of the average airfare, I just flew from Switzerland to Bangkok return for under £400 with luggage for 3 month ticket, and paid an extra £80 for 4 seats selection, 2 flights out and 2 back.
If you want to blame anyone blame the airports and the taxes, my ticket equated to £139 for the flight and £270 in FEES and taxes those have nothing to do with the passenger but the greed of those running the show.
Now if that was reversed and the ticket price was £270 and the taxes were £139 airlines would be CONSIDERABLY less likely to cram an extra 30 seats on to each plane just to cover costs@@toddsmith8608
Why not? As long as the deal is mutually satisfactory, as old Romans used to say "pacta sunt servanda". The problem is when you buy priority boarding and have it denied (by a Norwegian employee groaning something about "calling police")or when you find out your premium economy occupied by someone else and the attendant politely tells you to seat "where I say otherwise I kick your axx out of my plane" (where else but in a United flight?). There is plenty of airlines that honor what they sell and as usual some that don't.
And now it's standard unless you pay first class.
@@CARLOSFERNANDEZ-vf2fm oh god, I had thrombosis after a short haul low carrier flight during a school trip, so I now actually pay for aisle seat or emergency row reservations and would pay for more leg room in economy plus.
If anyone would deny me that seat, I'd probably sue them and I'm not American 😅 I'd might turn into a Karen and film them or have them sign something if they want to kick me off the plane and/or not give me my paid for seat.
I'm not playing with my health like that.
Today's low cost long haul flights are of ridiculously bad service. My wife and I recently flew LEVEL (Iberia) from Boston to Barcelona and back. Turns out, unless you pay extra (and you know about this upfront) they won't give you as much as a glass of water on their transatlantic flights. You also must pay for headphones, pillows and blankets. This is a new low. And the price was in the ballpark of their competitors (just below $700 per roundtrip, plus $240 for the option to sit next to each other on both flights) - we chose it because of the direct flight. Oh well, never again.
Dude, do your research before you fly. There are plenty of travel forums that would tell you all this stuff.
My time-travel bucket-list: a very long journey in a pre-WW2 flying-boat.
Great video, Captain.
Oh wow. I'd be up for that.
San Francisco to New York in just five weeks with the Pacific Clipper.
@@jimmyryan5880Sorry, Dorothy Lamour asked first.
@@kilianortmann9979whoaa thats cool
Dream on: not possible anymore
I can't tell you how much I love these deep dive videos! Gives me a deeper understanding - and appreciation - of airline/airplane related topics/issues...
And, Petter, don't worry about making your videos 'unbearably long'! No such thing!
Personally, I'd *love* to see longer videos with really deep dives (say, 45-60 min long)!
I really like the long-format style en vogue nowadays, and I have a feeling you will be really good at it -- making it both informative & interesting!
Glad you like them!
The last comment was absolutely correct. In the 80’s I flew hundreds if not thousands of flights and if I was running late I knew I could make a flight if I got inside the terminal 10 minutes before departure. Today is 1-2 hours and then you get a seat that you can barely, in my case, get your knees into. I won’t fly unless my destination is more than a 900 miles away.
Absolutely. Happy to live on the east coast and even happier to take the train. #Amtrak 😍
I flew on a 707 on long haul in 1963 and the seats were larger the food actually was terrible and ticket prices were outrageous so the flights were half empty
I was flying economy class out of John Wayne once, and a cousin who worked for the airline had found out I was flying that day, and upgraded me to First Class. I was as surprised as the ticket agent, and she called over her supervisor to check it out, all the while glancing at me suspiciously. I was confused at their triple-checking, but I got First Class. It was when we were being served the meal, and the repulsed look on the stewardess's face while handing me my food that I realized I must have broken some dress code or something. I was wearing nice denims, a buttoned shirt, and Topsiders, but apparently it was not up to their "standards." I told the smug stewardess I'd be glad to give up my seat to anyone who would like it, and let me sit in coach. She realized I was pissed, and rather than make a scene let me go back to coach for the flight. Yep, good ol' Alaska.
I fly a lot, most the time in premium economy domestically, and first on longer flights, typically. I like the direction airlines are going with premium economy tickets, expanding their seat selection in those higher classes. Overall it brings the prices of those cabins down, which helps. If airlines continue to expand their premium products, the prices will continue to become more affordable. A first class ticket across the Atlantic one-way is usually $5-700. Really affordable with all things considered. Premium economy is often just a little more expensive, but in return, my long legs don’t suffer having my knees pressed against the seats in front of me. I call it the “tall tax”. I can see airlines in the future rolling out 100% premium planes more and more often, like what we see with SQ22/23 and BA1/2. That’ll be there for those who want and can afford those products, just at a better price, and people still trying to pay as little as possible will continue to have plenty of options. It’s a win for everyone IMO.
It’s always fun to revisit the cabin service in the John Wayne film “The High and the Mighty”. I particularly liked the part where a disgruntled passenger pulls a revolver out of his pocket. The stewardess scolds him and tells him to put it back. Those were the days….
Another phenomena of the era was down on their luck buissnessmen (Because working class people still took the train back then or their car if they could afford it), boarding planes with dynamite from the general store, taking out a massive life insurance policy on and setting it off in the lavatory (Continental Flight 11 for example). there where also a bunch of assasinations/unwilling insurance scams that went like this back in those days.
Yeah, and his fellow passenger hangs on to the gun for him, then gives it back later after the guy says he's feeling better now. Lol.
I love flying. I love the feeling when the plane accelerates and the when the wings finally get lift. The feeling when the plane reaches flying altitude and it feels like one is weightless for some seconds. I love it especially if it’s a slightly rough flight and on can feel the physics behind it. Can somehow feel how the wings move the fuselage cuts through the air. Also when landing one feels how the flaps go higher the weight is put on the runway. The captain pushes the breaks. also, I do like the time one has. a perfect excuse to do nothing. one is lucky when witnessing a sun rise or set from above.- and at night when the whole plane sleeps. The light is dimmed and there is no other noice then the plane itself- silenced with some noice cancelling headphones as it‘s really loud actually XD. - I hate everything around it. Literally. Booking, getting to the airport. The airport itself and getting back from the airport. One gets paranoid of everything being a rip off trying to squeeze the next penny out of one’s pocket. Anxious ones luggage is a Gramm to heavy or a cm to big. Hopefully one doesn’t get hungry or thirsty out of schedule as the worlds worst sandwiches a glass of horrible water will cost a fortune when bought on the airport or plane. And one can never really be sure the journey is successful and one and one’s luggage arrive in time at the destination. Then one needs to find the stuff one couldn’t take in the luggage like simple old fashioned razor blades or aftershave. Outside the flight itself one feels like a criminal and a puppet of marketing. A punchingbag for economy. An evil the world has to endure. On every corner it says „I hate you because you’re poor - now eat that over priced junk and wait until we charge you 40euros for one Gramm of luggage“
Midwest Express, a Milwaukee based airline, had first-class service for all passengers. Wide leather seats, china place settings with silverware, free champagne, freshly baked chocolate chip cookies . . . through the 80s and 90s.
And they no longer exist.
Our friend from Sweden is still the most professional (and entertaining) explainer of how aviation works - take saa mycket!
I recently flown on NEOS 787 premium economy from JFK to Milan. I felt it was totally worth the experience I received. From lounge access to bigger seats and leg room. Pre flight Prosecco and multi course meals just made our vacation trip extra special.
The way flying should be. And that is a long haul. Good for you!
I'm tall and have worked all my life to build a successful business. Business or First Class is the only way I fly. Also, on international flights I like leaving the US East Coast at night, having a seat that will lay flat and getting some shut eye. I've found this greatly reduces my jet lag and it allows me to arrive in Europe in the AM which gives me an extra day. Perhaps someone can answer this question. I accidentally left a cork screw in my carry on and the TSA took it. When dinner was served I was given a proper steak knife - long sedated blade and a full size handle. Take my corkscrew and give me a steak knife. Really?
There are two possibilities: One, the TSA knows that hangry people can be dangerous. However, the large steak knife was provided to you when you had food in front of you, so you would not be agitated at this time.
Two, the TSA is all just security theater to make it seem that the government is protecting us, even though the flight school where one of the 9/11 terrorists attended reported the suspicious behavior of the terrorist to the government, but the government did not act on this information, thus allowing the 9/11 attacks to occur.
Hmm, I wonder which one of these possibilities is more likely. 🤔
Because the government is stupid.
Back in the 1999 I had to fly to Milwaukee for a job interview. Being only a couple of hours away from DC, a friend of mine recommended that I fly Midwest Express. It was an airline created by Kimberly Clark to transport their executives around. Every seat was first class. It was quite the experience.
At the other end of the spectrum, I spent 9 months doing weekly commutes to Milwaukee on one of ME’s Dornier 328s. Not quite the same experience.
I got to fly Midwest and it was amazing. I was fairly young and it set the bar for what I thought flying was. I’ve only been disappointed ever since that flight.
Last time I stepped in an airliner it had 4 Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engines with huge propellers .
I still remember when 1st class upgrades were debuted by the airlines. Starting with TWA and their "FirstUp" program. I can recall walking up to the TWA gate agent and literally asking for a 1st class upgrade, and getting it. Granted, I was frequent flyer of TWA and was in their Ambassador class, iirc, but it was still something up until then I didn't dream of doing as an economy passenger.
Speaking of LLCs, if you are in the US and need to visit Japan, be sure to look at ZipAir with their 787-8s and the "Lie-Flat" class. Lie-Flat is not quite a business class, as it has no IFE, but free internet, and no in-flight meals unless you pre-order the meal. You also need to pre-order a pillow and blanket, but at least you then get to keep it.
Just checked. Jet blue Mint Heathrow to Boston return 2 months away is about £1120 whereas the standard is about £270, so 75% lower for a economy seat
Thanks for looking that up!
...or it's 300% more than an economy seat. That is a lot of money when you consider 4 people can travel in economy for the price of just 1 of those seats.
However, when you look at a flight from Boston to Heathrow you are looking at a long day of travel. The flight itself is about 6 hours and 45 minutes plus you have to add in the check-in time and commute to the airport and then getting your luggage and leaving the airport or rental car/transportation to where you will be staying so all in you are looking at about 10 hours travel (more or less)... Plus you have to do that twice if you are returning to Boston. (disregarding 2 month return)
How important is that 7 hours in the airplane to someone...What is comfort worth?
That is a huge difference for an average family of 4 going on vacation. 1,100 vs 4,500 (est) That's a 3,400 difference. That is a decent amount of spending cash for a family of 4 on vacation.
JetBlue is flying DUB-JFK from next March, and I’ve already booked Aer Lingus DUB-ORD to the USA next April, so I checked JB fares, expecting to get annoyed. But JB is actually more expensive to ORD, with a stop, than AL is non-stop.
The point is Jet Blue Mint is less expensive than most other mainline trans-Atlantic business class. I've shopped it as well - currently looks to be a great deal.
In the late 1990's and early 2000's, I had first class status on a U.S. based airline, simply because of how many day flight trips I had in a month. Every single one of my flights were about an hour (give or take 30 minutes). So, since I didn't pack an overnight bag (well, I always packed a change of clothes and a toothbrush in my carry on backpack), and the flight was about an hour, I didn't mind the regional jets I was flying on, and I got access to the first class lounges at both my departure and destination airports, where I could get a quiet place to work, some decent food, an occasional shower, a nap, etc. Today, I don't fly that much, so when I fly, I am stuck in economy (well, usually Southwest, which only has one class). *But* if I were to go on a dream vacation to either Europe or Asia, I will definitely add to my budget a first/business class ticket for the 10 to 18 hour flight over the ocean (you choose, Pacific or Atlantic). I am unwilling to be in a can of sardines for half a day, and I am willing to pay the price.
Similar boat here, for anything over around 4 hours I budget for business class, especially international. 18-20 hours from Chicago to Hong Kong or India in economy? No frigging way.
There’s another reason why, when I hit the other end, I have to go to work, I can’t chill out and recover. I get myself into a local sleep schedule on the flight so when we arrive I’ve ready to go.
Totally agree,I fly 4 longhaul 12/14 hour transcontinental flights x year,couldnt do it in economy...physically and mentally!!
That's what I do too. Once a year I cross the ocean. And as an older person I am not putting up with economy when I can make it into a full flat seat at a reasonable price. Can't take the money with me into the pearly gates.
I would, but I find it difficult to justify the AT LEAST 2.5 times cost of the tickets for which is basically a (ok, long, we usually fly FRA-LAX) bus ride. I would rather use that money at the destination for a premium experience. And ve done so.
@@inyobill Not everybody can afford it. That's the reason there are discounted seats in "C" because they cannot always fill up. And then it is my turn to yoink that ticket.
All I want is to get from point A to point B in a safe efficient manner for a fair price, if I wanted luxury I would take a cruise.
More companies are changing their staff travel policies. In my company the old policy was if the flight has airtime less than 5 hours then the ticket should be economy and if more, we could book business class. The new rule is if the flight takes less than 3 hours, the ticket must be economy. If airtime between 3 to 10 hours, it should be premium economy and only if more than 10 hours, we can book business. For me who lives in Europe, this means all europian flight must be booked in economy (normally 70% of our destinations).
A number of years ago I was helping my mother pack in preparation to move house when I came across a plane ticket (Melbourne, Australia to London) from the late 70’s. I was surprised to see that the cost of the ticket was more or less the same dollar value as a modern flight on the same route, and that’s before applying inflation.
Whenever I fly long haul, I seek out flights that offer PE cabins, specifically those that offer a better seat to Economy. For me the journey is just as important as the destination, and too often we take flying for granted. We should always celebrate the marvel that is flight and try to enjoy the experience as much as possible (or at least as far as our budget allows!).
We have taken Ryanair flights throughout Europe for less than the cost of a lunch. For short trips, it's like taking a bus. We travel with only carry-ons and buy a snack at the airport just before boarding. There is no way a long haul airline can match their model.
I flew to Sardinia from southern Germany for a price even an apprentice could afford.
Yeah, it felt like a bus, and a bus ticket fare to match, even though it was technically an "international" flight
Just how a guy sitting in a chair can produce such captivating, informative and inspiring tv is beyond me. Keep it up
To anyone complaining, just ask them if they’d be willing to pay $4,000 in todays dollars for a seat like those old photos, and watch it get awful quiet.
Yes, the prices are closer to Business or First Class. Better service exists today, you just have to pay for it.
And any 1st tier airlines business class these days is FAR better than any "First class" seat of the 1970's. Lay flat vs Big Recliner? There is no comparison. A roast carved on the trolley? Sorry, That doesn't make up for paying so much to SIT UP for a long haul flight. And lets not mention SAFETY now compared to then... @@Secretlyanothername
@@Secretlyanothername Business class today is truly amazing, But I personally rarely get to fly it. But that is okay when an economy ticket is 1/5th the price. ANA's Business class in my opinion is nearly first class tier on many other airlines, but I cannot make that statement as the only time I flew first class was on Air Canada, which isn't that great.
@@linuxman7777 I wouldn't fly Air Canada in any class. A second-tier airline.
Flying Qatar Airways for the first time was an eyeopener to me! This is how flying should be, it was wellness for body and soul! ❤
Just like Pan Am back in the day.
I used to use them a lot, but since covid I have found that their quality has deteriorated significantly. My latest airline I now use is Kuwait Airlines, mainly because they have better planes.
@@TIMMEH19991Qatar business Q suites are very good. A380 first class is epic. 8 flights in last 18 months.
A great way to start and finish a holiday.
@@TIMMEH19991 I heard the same about Emirates, too, so when it comes to quality the airlines from Arab countries seem to be on another level, no European airline can compete with them - and I have the bad feeling that they not even want to do so, neither Lufthansa, nor KLM, not even Swiss.
European airlines just don't care about customer experience but efficiancy is their main and only goal.
@@c.s.4273 Emirates has basically 2 fleets. The "nice" fleet that flies to western countries and has the most current cabin offering and a tolerable economy cabin and the "India bus" fleet which have their older cabins and an absolutely awful economy product, those are the planes that fly the "help" over from India. Qatar is similar with their Q suites cabin vs their older cabin, Q suites only fly on routes to rich countries.
Low cost carriers have the advantage and the big disadvantage of often being single type only. While it makes the operations cheaper and allows for better crew exchangeability, if your one type gets grounded, has issues, or has a required change, your whole fleet is down and you loose everything. Not only long haul, but this happened to many carriers, both with Airbus and Boeing aircraft types, and their engines, quite a few times in the recent past.
I agree! Flying Lufthansa business often. Its for sure not premium airline anymore, low quality and very old seats & lounges. Aircrew is most of the time great , can not understand why Lufthansa can not travel to US or Dubai for lessons learned.
I'm a food deliveryman in singapore and i like to listen to your videos. No such thing as unbearably long! I'll even watch if it's 2 hours
Premium economy isn't such a new idea. Virgin Atlantic were offering exactly this in the mid 2000s. My wife and I flew Manchester to Orlando in 2005. The premium economy seats were in the upper lounge of the 747. Plenty of space, big comfy seats, and great food.
Thank you Petter for your videos, full of knowledge and wisdom, thank you.
I mostly fly US domestic on Delta (since they ate Northwest). The seat choices are First, Comfort+, and Main. Comfort+ is a Main seat with extra legroom. I find the Comfort+ seat more comfortable than First as long as no one is in the middle seat.
I used to buy in Main and then upgrade to Comfort+ when I checked in (online, 24 before departure). But the paid upgrades became less available over time and I had to start buying Comfort+ tickets (and noting the price difference since I am only getting reimbursed for Main). But on my last flight, booking six weeks ahead of time, only two middle seats were available in Comfort+ on one leg and I booked in Main, which was sparsely booked, for the return. However when I checked in for the return I was offered a really inexpensive First class upgrade which I took.
Another thing that I have noticed is the decline in the amenities offered in Comfort+. The 3 inches of extra legroom and “dedicated” overhead space still make it worth it but I remember how it used to be and feel I am getting cheated out of something.
Wow, watching that baggage door come down with that attendant looked like a garage door.
It's a drop down bed. It was one of them aircraft, a sleeper one.
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 thanks, I thought it was rather large
As someone that can't be called short, I definitely prefer enough legroom on long haul. 2-3 hours I can survive being squeezed in cattle class from a low cost carrier, but 10-12 hours? Don't think so, flying in and of itself is uncomfortable enough due to noise and dehydration.
NY to London $550 in 1960 but you wouldn't be riding on a 747 back then, if you were lucky you got a 707 6-7 hours if not you got a DC-7 or a Conny 12-14 hours.
My wife and I are going on our "trip of a lifetime" for a month in NZ and Oz...we are flying from Toronto Pearson to Melbourne...and the only thing I am dreading, the only thing, is the airport/airline experience...airline better figure out that while they are having their way now, times change...frankly I get tired of arguing with airlines to only get what I actually paid for.
Dude, the airlines are delivering exactly what the mass market is demanding, low fares above all else. Pay for a higher class if you don't like the economy experience.
No need to go to the airport with a negative attitude, as being on edge is likely to induce the experience you wish to avoid. Just relax, expect some wait times and understand if you paid for cramped coach seats you're going to get cramped coach seats. You do only get what you actually paid for. 😉
@@jacksons1010 It is funny how the hoi-polloi demand low prices then complain about legroom lol.
BA's World Traveller Plus (Premium Economy) is a perfect example of the new trend. The seats are different to economy seats however. They are wider, recline a lot more and have larger screens than their economy seats. They have more leg room and feature a smaller cabin too, typically in 2-4-2 layout on their 777s (BA only offer this cabin on long haul).
I flew in this cabin with them from Heathrow to Atlanta, and back. The price was pretty reasonable. Food was good, service excellent.
I’ve flown KLM & Iberia premium economy recently and it was nearly as good as business. I’ve flown business many times for various technical reasons and yes the biz seats are superior. However, the gap between economy and premium economy is so much bigger and worthwhile than the gap between premium economy and business for most 8-13hr flights. Given the price difference there’s a lot of value to be found in premium economy.
04:53 There is zero chance the car is missing that drum 😄
Why do I feel that this episode is an ad to the Emirates ?
In 2014, an emirates return flight from LGW to PER cost 750 uk pounds. In 2019, the same trip at exactly the same time of year cost exactly the same amount. In 2023, the same trip cost me 1800 uk pounds. And the aircraft on all four legs were absolutely full on this last trip, whereas all my previous trips had some empty seats. I’d be very surprised if Emirates were struggling financially at the moment.
Euro-business class as offered by LH, AF, or LX is actually a rip-off as one usually pays a substantial higher fare than Y class but is offered an economy class seat with the middle seat blocked for more space. In contrast, flying domestic (!!!) business class in China includes a full sized business or first class seat (much akin to first class in the U.S.) in a 2-2 configuration which is often available at rather attractive rates , for example on Shenzhen Airlines or Hainan Airlines.
I think most of their offer is supposed to be the experience before you board and after you leave (skypriority and lounge). However you get these exact same things if you're a higher tier frequent flyer anyway.
While I agree it's not a great deal I'm the wrong person to argue because I've never paid for anything else than economy in my life. I often find a great seat with seat maps.
Is that tea in your mug?
Thanks for the video, Petter and MentourTeam. ❤
Don’t forget that before deregulation, an airplane ticket was just like having cash in your pocket. An airplane ticket on one airline was good on any airline that covered the same route. Also airline tickets were redeemable for cash. In 1982, I still paid $700 for a coach fare between Great Falls, Montana and Chicago O’Hare. But the food was good and there were no delays.
Hopfully United will bring back the Great Falls to Chicago flight.
Back during the Johnny Carson era when the show would fly stand up comics out to perform on the show, many comics would exchange their first class tickets booked by the show for economy seats allowing them to receive hundreds of dollars, sometimes even thousands of dollars, for downgrading their ticket. Good times.
that was a mjor point in his presentation.
$700 in 1982 adjusted for inflation is $2200.00.
Great falls to Chicago round trip on Delta economy can be had for $217.00 today.
$857.00 for business class.
We often look back through rose colored lenses.
As I'm approaching my mid sixties I will spring for comfort class on long haul flights. I can't sit in economy for 8+ hours anymore. It cost more but in my opinion it's worth it.
I love how Petter says “it would make this video unbearably long” … am I the only one who thinks there’s no such thing as too long when Mentour releases a video? 😂
I recently flew on a United Airlines 767-400 in Premium Plus from MAD to IAD and it was a real upgrade. The seats had a larger pitch, reclined farther and had a leg rest that came up when the seat reclined. The seat was also more padded with an adjustable headrest and a wide fixed armrest between the seats. The amenities were much better too. The food was better and there were more choices with liquor included. They included a headset (not cheap earbuds) and real blanket and pillow and an amenity kit. It isn't business class, but much cheaper and well worth the increased cost from regular economy. A really good option on a long haul (8 hour) flight.
Air travel creates some wild videos of fights and lunatics using air travel. Spirit Airlines seems to appeal to the dregs of society busting up the places and vulgarities by usually obese people. How they fit in 17.75 inch wide and 28 inch pitch seats is amazing.
I flew Norse about a month ago from Rome to NYC, their premium cabin (the first dozen or so rows with 2/3/2 configuration and wide reclining seats) cost about 230 EUR to upgrade to from economy. Food was unimpressive, though wine was complimentary. Completely worth it for the roomy comfortable seat. The upgrade was advertised at check in.
That is a long haul... This was a great, objective reply.
Why would anyone wish to pay extra for early boarding? The few times I flew, I always preferred to board really among the last entering the plane. We all arrive at the same time anyway.
The overhead lockers might be full by then, causing tussles, everyone wanna be first to stow their carry-on (not carrion!) 😂
edit: me last to board, last to exit. Taking it easy. And the chats and goodbyes with the cabin crew after the flight are well worth it.
@@alli3219I only flew 3-4 times in the last 20 years... but having my carry on under the seat in front of me seems more practical... Even when there was space above, I would just put my back-pack under the seat in front so there is no need stand up to access it.
When Singapore Airlines refurbished their A380s a couple of years ago the new standard economy seat was reduced to the comfort of a suburban train seat. Dreadful. Their Premium Economy class is poor value, the roominess is nice but the reclining seat with the leg rest digging into the calf of your leg is ridiculous, not at all comfortable. Business Class is something else altogether though, really good and something I am not prepared to pay for out of taxed income! And then again, the cabin crew's efficiency can make a big difference. Being offered food and drinks service at the right time is great, but food served 15 minutes before the accompanying drink is just plain poor, and even 5 star SIA are guilty of that these days, twas never so 20 years ago. I was hoping that the FAA review into seats and safety would produce a better experience for economy passengers with just a little more leg room and wider seats, but no it didn't. There really does seem to be a race to the bottom. Over the last few years I have travelled with Air Canada, TAP, SIA and Air Canada have the most comfortable economy seats, but then the flight is short at just 8.5 hours!!!
I expect the same kind of experience in coach as traveling on the Long Island Rail Road without the waste of time and security hassle of an airport. Plus people are better dressed on the train.
They may be better dressed but are more slovenly. I lived in Westchester and took Metro north daily. The difference between LIRR and MNRR is night and day. Long Islanders threw trash everywhere, yelled loudly into cell phones, had no manners or couth. Hop on the Harlem, New Haven and Hudson line and it would for the most part be quiet and clean (minus the local trains stopping in the Bronx). Don't get me wrong I love long Island and used to live out there but I'll get on a plane with MNRR riders anyway of the week before LIRR
I get annoyed having to pay for business class because I’m confined to a wheelchair. They’ve made aisles so narrow and legroom so small in economy that although they have aisle chairs for immobile passengers, they’re too small for a wheelchair passenger to transfer into their seat. Getting out is even harder. You can’t book bulkhead or bassinet seats either as the armrests are rigid and can’t be raised to do a slide on/off transfer.
Airlines don’t want to have to deal with disabled people so they make it difficult or expensive to travel. To visit family in the US costs me around $40k return (I’m in Australia). My able bodied husband pays less than $2k in economy and we sit apart. If I need anything in transit (medication or repositioning my paralysed legs) the cabin crew has to go get him from economy to help.
Wheelchair accessible economy would be very helpful.
It's kinda discrimination...
The A-D legislation though says that if reasonable accommodation causes undue (financial) hardship on the person or business providing a service, exceptions can be made.
I'm sure a multi-million/billion dollar airline company will not qualify for "undue hardship" 😂
🇦🇺🙋🏼♀️
Wow. I always thought there was enough "accommodation" and "technology" to get a wheelchair-bound person into any seating category?
Sue QANTAS? Lodge a complaint with the AD commission?
As always, informative and tightly scripted.
One of the very best TH-cam channels.
Thank you.
Personally my 2 frustrations are the seats (train seats are very comfy, please slap them in an aircraft thanks) and the lack of places to rest in the airport (tons.of.people on the floor to sleep or work).
I like where I live so not really motivated to leave my island. If I took airlines it is two hour drive to the airport costing $60 round trip for tolls and gas. The airlines demand a 3 hour check-in since international flight. The flight is two hours plus 30 minutes to get bag and clear customs. A 2 hour flt consumes 7.5 hours. I have not been on an airliner in 6 or 8 years and I used to be a pilot for a living and not worth the trouble. I have other ways off the island.
It's the airlines fault that you live far from an airport!
Big Island Australia here. Prison colony 🙄
I miss the days just buying a ticket and just zoom through checking in and get on air craft ! 1980’s
Passengers aren't demanding Premium Economy, they're damanding to be treated like human beings. Airlines squeezing Economy with sub-17" seat widths and 28" seat pitch, and at the same time offering Premium Economy with over-18" seat width and 32-33" seat pitch are simply reviving traditional economy. It's a situation they created, and are profiting off of it.
People demand cheaper and cheaper flights, only some of us got left behind there.
They may demand to be treated better, but when actually faced with the choice most passengers prioritise price over comfort. What people say they want often doesn't match what they actually choose.
Yet, Ryanair has no shortage of people wanting to fly with them, despite their poor customer service.
@@thomasdalton1508 > *most passengers prioritise price over comfort*
Because the airlines, dishonestly, frame it like that. It's bullshit, period. Even Forbes published opinion piece(s) about how Gerard Arpey's reasoning for American Airlines removing "More Room Throughout Coach" was bullshit. The airlines would be able to operate fully without CEOs making multi million bonuses, or making less - and that money going back into the airlines, for instance.
(And no, tempting as it is, I wouldn't trust govt to bring on such a change of ops - people realizing the false dichotomy and doing something about it would)P.
People demand to smoke fine and mild tobacco products on board!
Back between 2010 and 2014 I went between New York and London frequently, and sometimes got a better night's sleep in the flat seats on those old BA 747s then I did at home.
Airlines would stack their passengers like cordwood if it could get them an extra 1% profit
RyanAir considered standing only passengers a few years back. A bit like the tube/metro 😨
airlines would much rather you spend the money for anything other then economy.
watched a viedo by wendover productions titled "economics of airline class"
in the example they used the next class above economy class with something like 1/3rd of the passengers made about the same money per ticket, this is based on memory so not exact.
its very much a "you get what you pay for" experience.
Airlines are only responding to the free market choices of the flying public. Ask any airline executive why the seats don't have more room, and he'll tell you that's how 80% of the people vote with their wallets. And the poors always choose low fares > bigger seats. And there's only so much space on an airplane. As @ARockRaider points out the airlines would LOVE for you to spend more for larger seats in contrast to what 80% of the customers actually choose. So blame it on the passengers not the airlines, comrade!
@@uclajd Wouldn't that be assuming that it's a choice between the seats being uncomfortable, and very expensive? IDK, it seems like with anything in any business, it's not that simple, and there are a lot of variables that come into play, IDK. It just feels sus to me.
@@DanknDerpyGamer I can't speak to comfort, but most people think more leg room and reclining seats are key to comfort (I know my back cares about reclining). As far as comfy seats, they do have to be flotation devices, no? So they can find your bobbing corpse in the ocean for a decent burial.
This makes me wonder what my parents paid to fly me from Atlanta (Delta) to Dallas and then on to Tulsa (American) in 1966. I’m an 8 year old, in suit and tie, sitting next to an also well heeled adult who was kind enough to tell me what I would experience on my first flight aboard a DC-8. He went over take-off, cruise, and landing (describing thrust reverse) and went out of his way to calm me. My parents couldn’t prep me because neither had ever flown. This man also ordered me a second Coke and told me what to do when I needed to go to the bathroom. I can’t picture him nor any of the flight attendants (called stewardesses in that time) but I can still recall the feeling of being cared for as well as a long look at the cockpit departing the plane. I don’t know that any of this was corporate policy. I have a feeling it was just good people looking out for a kid. I’m guessing that still exists, but who would send their 8 year old off alone on a flight today?
No such thing as an "unbearably long" Mentour video 😊
He might be talking about "unbearably long" from the perspective of the person who has to get the video filmed, edited, and uploaded.
Before the pandemic we flew United's Polaris Business Class when there was still a First Class cabin. The BC seats were lay flat and had a bit of room around them but were not the separated cubes we have today and had then in First Class. We recently flew United Polaris BC round trip to Italy. I thought, with the new cube like seats, it would be like the old first class or at least the equal of the older 3 class BC Seats. Low and behold, they are not as good as the old first class and in my opinion are not an upgrade or even the equal of the older BC cabin. They have done this switch, it appears, by cramming more rows in shorter space angling the seats so the cube overlaps the row just ahead. There is a gap to get through to get to the seat that is narrow. I have a problem the result of a lung operation that left my side with a bulge due to nerves that were damaged in the operation. I'm not a small guy anyway but I am not one of those 2 seat giants who need belt extenders and cram themselves into one economy middle seat. Anyway getting through that gap was actually quite difficult. Once in you are faced with a ton of 'gifts' to make your flight better but no where to put them that does not impinge on your leg room or somewhere else. The lay flat seat was, for me, not comfortable flat at all. The 10 hour flight back from Rome I simply put the seat back into a 1/2 way back position and was way more comfortable than flat. I wish they would bring back the older BC seat layout. I could sit right next to my wife in a window seat and hold hands and talk and the seats were actually roomier
I always have a little bit mixed feeling about these divisions in transportation. What i mean by that is, that i hope no one will get tempted to downgrade economy class to the point, where it will actually become uncomfortable to fly, just so more and more people decide to pay more. Economy is used by many and for many it is the door to travel. I wouldnt want to see in future 5 classes in a plane, where the fifth is passengers strapped to pufas in cargo compartment :))
You are forgetting that that very cheap price is the maximum that some travellers can afford to pay and also, if everyone paid for premium the budget seats would be empty, which makes no sense to anyone
The perk I’d pay extra for is increased odds of actually getting there in time.
Southwest used to be really good about this. They used secondary airports not just to reduce landing fees but also to avoid the congestion of the big hubs where one little SNAFU or weather event could make dozens of planes late. They got me there on time while the other airlines complained that the delay was due to weather, ATC, or other factors out of their control. It was t really out of their control. They just left no margin for error.
I’d love to see airlines forced to publish statistics on how often any given flight reaches its destination within 20 minutes of when it’s supposed to. Then the public could avoid that flight that’s always late because La Guardia needs to land a plane every 2 minutes during that peak time or they get backed up all morning.
The whole aviation system has adapted to society in general .. a clown-world! - Glad I got to travel the globe during the better years 1970-2020. - Now "they" could not pay me enough to go through airport security. -
I remember the earlier attempts at low cost long haul. People Express and Laker Skytrain were well known, but there was also the earlier form of Icelandic, who in the 1980s flew DC-8s between Luxembourg and places in the US (Baltimore and other such cities), with stopovers in Iceland en route. They ran coaches between Luxembourg and Cologne, where passengers could get train connections onwards. It was common to see their planes running very late because of some tech problem; it wasn't unknown for a flight to turn up the next day. Why? Because they didn't have spare planes if something went wrong. Laker and People got squashed by rival airline pricing. Virgin Atlantic also started in a similar fashion with old 747s flying out of Gatwick to the US; for a while they had a connecting flight from Maastricht to Gatwick using a Viscount aircraft from the 1950s. The Virgin magazine proudly claimed that all their aircraft had four engines.
Regarding Premium Economy, airlines basically figured out there was a group of folks who were willing to pay more for a seat comparable to a domestic first class seat, but took one look at business class and said, “nope, I’m good”.
They needed a product they could sell since the extra legroom seats were mostly going to people with points status since the new seat designs largely make the extra legroom seats redundant. The newest seat designs are actually amazing in their ability to make a 30 or 31 inch seat pitch feel reasonably comfortable. Often better than the 31 or 32 inch pitches of previous seat designs. Worst seat I've ever flown on was a 31in pitch United seat from circa 2012 on a 737-800, I flew their newer though not newest 737-900 cabin last year and the 30in pitch seat actually was a lot more comfortable, not the best econ seat ever, but certainly tolerable for a domestic flight.
I flew an American Airlines 777 recently from London to Los Angeles. The Business and Premium Economy cabins were full, and the Economy cabin was only about 20% full. The AA Premium Economy has 8 seats across like they used to have a decade ago in Economy, but now Economy has 10 seats across 3-4-3. The premium seats are similar design but a little bigger and further apart. Then AA has another option that they call Main Cabin Extra that has exactly the same seats but an extra 3-4 inches of leg room. That is what I get, since I am 193 cm or 6’4” tall. AA typically charges about $100-$150 per leg to upgrade to Main Cabin Extra.
Gee, I thought I'd heard everything for charging for legroom, but they charge you for each leg? Do you get a partial discount if you're an amputee?
Funny getting charged by the leg
we tall people do suffer and have to pay for it. I'm 6'5". I always upgrade to an exit aisle seat, as you have unlimited legroom. However in a 777 you still have to put up with the horribly uncomfortable seat.
Besides Qatar and Emirates, there's also Etihad. Which operate hub and spoke from the Middle East
Ima stay out of the Middle East
There's also Ethiopian, that operates operates long haul hub and spoke out of Addis Ababa. Especially between Europe and Far East.
Quantas
Just had a flight with BA, they don't even give a drink outside of water and a scrappy cookie. For twice the price of of easyjet on a 4 hours flight. Not getting better.
15:00 "This is actually very central in how the Gulf airlines can work the way they do…"
It also doesn't hurt that they are wholly owned by their governments, and thus get a lot of sweetheart deals.
and can absorb a loss if they need to.
And are directly fuelled by the world's top oil exporting countries ⛽🛫
That's a huge competitive advantage
Related to domestic traffic, 50yr ago an interview with airline ceo was asked when better seats and food? Answer “never”. People say they want those things but they buy the cheapest ticket. Now planes and airports are like bus travel. Its so bad things finally bouncing the other way.
There is literally nothing about the travel "experience" that appeals. Horrific Airport experiences including queues and poor/rude staff with security and customs/border control. Coupled with overpriced tickets for small seats, add ons for everything and considerably poor service from bored and disinterested air crew and the whole thing stinks. It once was a fun prospect but if we are being honest,it's lacking in many ways these days and is just a necessary evil to get to where we are going.
You must be from the USA and I would agree, but businesses class with Singapore air is a treat, a real travel "experience"
Agree. This is why I try very hard to fly non-stop flights anymore. I am willing to drive 2+ hours to DC or take the train to NYC from northern VA where I live in order to do so.
Buying a ticket on Frontier is a flimflam. By the time you pay for the add ons it’s the same price as United and at least United gives you a seat that doesn’t feel like a cement block.
I was criticized by staff for standing out of the way, when I was letting quicker folks through. I would prefer to relax and take my time.
@slapshot0074 - forgot to add to your list your fellow passengers...how alas many of the traveling public are just plain *^&^&^^)&^& and you wonder why you get "bad" service from the air crews?
I don’t understand the comment you made about “analyzing how low cost airlines work would make the video unbearably long…”. I could watch your content for hours 😊. Thank you for all the cool insights into the aviation industry. 🎉
Golden age of travel for the rich, but if you're just an average person who wants a comfortable seat for a modest vacation, you're out of luck.
2nd generation A-P mech on my 40th year at UAL ,I’ve been flying standby all my life domestically and internationally. The best food was first class on a dc10 BOS to SFO and the seafood spread well it was a buffet.The California commuter dc-8 lounge in the back and a lot of cigarettes.
The last FIRST CLASS Delta ticket I bought did not include lounge access because it was 30 minutes too short of a flight, Delta has too many restrictions on access to their lounges. If you buy a FIRST CLASS ticket you should get lounge access period!
Very good analysis, and I note how many comments you got in less than one day! You could have added that there are no longer any chairs in most check in areas. And people of advanced age and with disabilities must wait in long lines. Meantime, the much more poverty stricken transit agencies delivering people to the airport must go to great lengths to provide accessible facilities.
In a way I am glad that you did NOT mention “seat pitch”. Because it is a very misleading metric to compare the space you get from one airplane to the next. As the construction of the seat has a very significant impact on the available space you get as a passenger, even if the “seat pitch” is the same.
As an example consider my experience with Copa Airlines in 2017: Their advertised “seat pitch” was 31 inches; but the difference in seat construction was all that mattered between triggering a claustrophobic panic attack or not. In some situations the space available was as low as 40cm in which to squeeze my head.
Then there is also a significant difference between “domestic business class” of legacy carriers in Europe and North America. The single aisle aircraft in Europe will more often than not just block out the middle seat of their standard economy seating to create a 2+2 layout and use a moveable curtain to adapt the cabin size to demand. But the “seat pitch” is more or less the same throughout the whole airplane. So you only get more elbow room and more overhead bin space, but NOT more legroom.
Meanwhile the single aisle planes in North America generally have a genuine 2+2 seat layout that also includes more longitudinal space as well for their “domestic business class”.
In 2021 I had to make a trip from Europe to South America, and due to claustrophobia I had booked in business class. For the intra-european segments I had one in a bulkhead seat and the other not. And in the later I suffered a claustrophobic panic attack.
In the summer of 2023 on a trip to Canada I booked the transatlantic segments in “premium economy” and the canadian segments in “domestic business”. Comparing the two transatlantic airlines (though in the same alliance) with the domestic segments, I can say that international premium economy and domestic business (in North America) have more or less the same seat space and cabin service product.
Instead of using the “seat pitch” as a passenger space metric, a much better passenger space (and comfort) metric would be to measure the space between the headrest of your full upright seat and the fully reclined seat-back in front of you, as well as the same seat configuration at the pelvic level (lumbar support to knee position). Because not everybody wants to (or can) be fully reclined.
Also, putting your carry-on bag under the seat in front of you significantly reduces your legroom and contributes to triggering claustrophobia.
Seat pitch is indeed something that a lot of people think they understand (because it seems straightforward) but I didn't mention it because it's... complicated. Maybe in a separate video.
Avianca, once glorious, is sadly today a low cost airline. Gone are the days of excellent service and comfortable travel.
This may sound crazy but crazy things over time have been coming true. There are groups, states, and nations already planning on restricting pleasure air travel with personal carbon allowances enforced through Central Banks Digital Currencies in the future to save the earth. Air travel creates 2% of CO2 and they can't have it. Australia only creates 1% and that nation is hell bent on going back to cave man days. We already have 15 minute ghettos being started to restrict auto travel and limit movement. These same people are messing with the food supplies so don't air travel will be exempt from the madness.
What really sucks is the size of the seats in economy. They get smaller and smaller. They are only usable for children and people smaller than 1.60m.
(my experience in Airbusses NEO's)
We had a carrier in the USA called Midwest Express. It was First Class seating with hot meals and wine service for every seat. It made it all the way to the Great Recession be for selling off to Frontier. It had an unusual origin as it started as the corporate transport for paper company Kimberly Clark.
I loved Midwest. Food was great, crew was a pleasure. Planes were old DC9’s with noisy engines but all in all it was a great experience.
I really like ME as well. I flew as a service tech so, even though the tickets were more expensive, the direct flights to some destinations offset the fare increase with the cost of hours saved. I would fly them every chance I got. But the thing that kept them alive for so long was the KC subsidy. Their model was not sustainable.
We have to remind ourselves that those videos from the days when airlines were regulated are promotional videos. And not necessarily reflective of the true airline experience. I can remember when DC-10's and L-1011's first came out, they showed cocktail lounges onboard. Of course the airlines quickly learned it made more sense to put seats there. But on the issue of splitting the cabin classes, can you imagine how complex that would be if they still had to allow for "smoking" rows in each class? I know many smokers can barely make thru the flight these days. And as guy who works in the terminals, the first thing some deplaning passengers ask is, "where can I smoke?"
The golden age is still here, wealthy people charter a private jet.
The "golden age" is also about the innovative engineering and evolution of the aviation industry at the time.
Own one. Swifties 😂
What I miss is what was a typical business class on long haul flights in '70s and '80s. That would be a bit better than what some airlines now introduce as "premium economy" - roomy, but not lay-flat seats (say, four abreast on 747 upper deck, 2+2+2 on the main - yeah, something like that at 19:26) with reasonable but not luxurious amenity pack (mostly toiletries, slippers, eye mask...), free entertainment, decent food and beverage service included in the price.*
Today we mostly have either deep vein thrombosis inducing cattle class, or personal cocoons up to and including "residences" for those who pay with other people's money, but still don't have enough of that for a proper private jet. (And don't make me laugh with "business jet" - people who business have to cart around like _now_ are _engineers;_ management can do their job or "job" as efficiently (or more) using teleconferencing - for them the jets are merely status symbols.)
But, yes, flexible scheduling full fare intercontinental return ticket on KLM, SwissAir or Lufthansa with perhaps a short connecting flight was about $3-4k in early '80s.
*) Well, yes, and smoking cabin, but I know I will not get that unless I splurge for private jet charter, and perhaps not even then.