Spinning Vs Grinding: What Is The Best Cadence For Climbing?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มี.ค. 2022
- There are lots of techniques that cyclists use when climbing. Chris Froome, for example, prefers to spin a smaller gear up climbs, whereas someone like Jan Ullrich is famous for always grinding a big gear. Joined by Andrew “The Twig” Feather, we tried out Wahoo’s new POWRLINK ZERO dual-sided pedals to test which is more effective: spinning or grinding.
In association with @wahoofitness 👉 gcn.eu/Wahoo-Fitness
Useful Links:
Adventure Documentaries, Exclusive Shows & Live Racing on GCN+: gcn.eu/plus
Download the GCN App for free: gcn.eu/app
Join us at the Global Bike Festival: gcn.eu/global-bike-festival
Visit the GCN Shop: gcn.eu/SpringRiding
Join the GCN Club: www.gcnclub.com/
Are you more of a spinner or a grinder? Let us know in the comments below! 💬
If you liked this video, be sure to give it a thumbs up 👍 and share it with your friends!
Watch more on GCN...
📹 New Wahoo Powrlink Zero Pedals | First Look! 👉 gcn.eu/PowrlinkFirstLook
📹 Watch our Editor’s Choice Playlist 👉 gcn.eu/editorschoice
📹 Or why not check out our Features Playlist 👉 gcn.eu/gcnfeatures
🎵 Music - licensed by Epidemic Sound 🎵
Murmansk Underground - OTE
Windy Day on the Beach - SOOP
Hemisphere - Ooyy
Photosynthesis - Lagua Vesa
jewels - bomull
Destiny Rising - FormantX
Dawn Wall - Def Lev
In the Cooker - Daniel Fridell.
Granny Dance - Scoobadive
#gcn #cycling #roadbike #roadcycling #wahoo #biketech #tech
Photos: © Velo Collection (TDW) / Getty Images & © Bettiniphoto / www.bettiniphoto.net/
The Global Cycling Network (GCN) is the largest online cycling channel in the world, bringing together a global community of road cyclists to celebrate everything that’s great about the world of cycling.
Our videos bring fans compelling daily content including expert tutorials, techniques, training, racing, cutting-edge bike tech, unparalleled behind the scenes event coverage, humour, entertainment, and more.
Presented by ex-pro riders, GCN offers a uniquely qualified insight into the world of cycling, and most importantly it’s fuelled by our passionate and enthusiastic fans - everyone who makes up the GCN community. We also bring the latest and greatest tech to your attention, showcase the best places in the world to ride and get exclusive access to events and races.
Welcome to the Global Cycling Network | Inside Cycling
Thanks to our sponsors:
Castelli Clothing: gcn.eu/Castelli
Giro Helmets: gcn.eu/Giro
Pinarello Bikes: gcn.eu/Pinarello
Zipp Wheels: gcn.eu/Zipp
Enervit Nutrition: gcn.eu/Enervit
Topeak Tools: gcn.eu/Topeak
Canyon Bikes: gcn.eu/-Canyon
Pirelli Tyres: gcn.eu/Pirelli
Orbea Bikes: gcn.eu/Orbea
Vision Wheels: gcn.eu/Vision
Wahoo Fitness: gcn.eu/Wahoo-Fitness
Park Tool: gcn.eu/-parktool
Elite Bottles: gcn.eu/EliteBottles
Whoop Fitness: gcn.eu/Whoop
Komoot: gcn.eu/komoot
Selle Italia: gcn.eu/SelleItalia
Zwift: gcn.eu/Zwift
Shimano Wheels: gcn.eu/Shimano
Shadow Stand: gcn.eu/ShadowStand
DMT Shoes: gcn.eu/DMT
Muc-Off: gcn.eu/MucOff
Watch our sister channels:
GCN Tech - / gcntech
GCN Racing - / gcnracing
Global Triathlon Network - / gtn
GCN Italia - / gcnitalia
GCN en Espanol - / gcnenespanol
GCN auf Deutsch - / gcnaufdeutsch
GCN en Francais - / gcnenfrancais
GCN Japan - / gcnjapan
GCN Training - / gcntraining
Global Mountain Bike Network - / gmbn
GMBN Tech - / gmbntech
Electric Mountain Bike Network - / embn - กีฬา
![[ไฮไลต์] ฟุตบอลชาย ฝรั่งเศส vs อเมริกา รอบแบ่งกลุ่ม | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oZ9aSS0NEEg/mqdefault.jpg)
Are you more of a spinner or a grinder?
_Edit: As we missed it out in the video, Conor's HR was 165bpm for the spinning challenge and 155bpm for grinding!_
Grinder
Spinner at flats and semi grinder in climb
Tinder.
Try to spin as much as possible, but I grind when it’s full gas.
Grinding away at that 7-sprocket cassette.
Years ago I was advised on a climb that if my heart rate was high and I was struggling to breathe, switch to a lower cadence. Conversely if your legs were burning, choose a higher cadence. Problem is that nowadays my heart is pounding, my lungs are screaming and my legs are burning all at the same time and they never told me what to do about it.🤔
That’s when you sit down for a few minutes to appreciate the view and take a couple of sips from your bottle 😂
Just slow down man.
@@KILLTHEREDDITOR Great response Gabriel!! 👍
That's when you start to think of putting an e-bike conversion kit on your bike. ;-)
it also happens to me if my mind is not calm because too many thoughts are racing in my head so that my breathing becomes a mess too. But after I tried to clear my mind, and tried to be calm and focused while cycling, all those things didn't happen to me anymore.
Top Gear had their pro,now GCN has theirs…”he’s called the twig!” Brilliant 🤣
🤣🙊
Loved the reference
LMAO
Well whats they can say for the GCN's guy is that he sticks at climbs.
The Twig should of remained silent.
Suggestions next time for the twig’s intro:
Some say he has invisible bar tape…
Some say all his drivetrains are 1X, because he never uses the little ring.
Some say that if he took EPO, it would slow him down because of the extra weight.
All we know is, he’s called the twig!!!
that last one haha
lol at the 1x bit
Some say he doesn't even know how his helmet comes off as he never thought to try;
and that his hatred of the French is the only thing stopping him from winning the Tour de France.
All we know is, he's called the Twig!
I'm 60 years old, and so are my tendons and joints. At this point in my riding career, I'm not yet ready for an Ebike, but I have settled on a climbing strategy of low gears combined with a low cadence. 😊
This practice also improves balance. Keep riding, stay safe and healthy.
Hey, I'm 61 and I have lots of friends who have had new parts installed. Luckily I'm still OEM.
Great technique. I do the same thing.
High cadence all day
Wait till you're 77 and been broken and bleeding by the side of the road, praying for morphine.
High or low cadence climbing for me generally translates to the same average power. Whilst grinding definitely burns the leg muscles, spinning for me comes at the cost of higher heartrate that then leads to a shortness of breath. So in the end it's usually stand and grind if sprinting up a short but steep climb or sit down and spin (at threshold or slightly below) if the climb is longer like a few km.
If it's steep and long, then grab an XC bike.
There are certainly benefits and drawbacks to both techniques Alexander 👍 Most like to mix it up but some definitely do perform better at higher or lower cadences!!
If you like your knees and want to keep them then a slightly higher heart rate is a small price to pay for a higher cadence
@@toomuch9762 Cars hitting me while on a bike have had more of an impact on my knees than cadence so that ship has sailed. :)
I'd recommend spinning since air is relatively unlimited.
@@strobi0001 my asthma disagrees
Kudos to Andrew on those fenders! I get a lot of pushback from other cyclists saying everything from “If you’re not dirty you haven’t ridden!” to “Fenders just create more drag!”
I’ve achieved high and consistent cadence on rolling rail trails with climbing and decents and stayed comfortably clean while doing so.
andrew fenders
I think it is important to highlight that Conor is/was a grand tour type rider who needs to ride for many hours up really big mountains day after day, recovering overnight for the next day (needs to manage fatigue) while the Twig is a hill climber mostly doing relatively short sharp max power efforts lasting a few minutes and therefore fatigue management is not a big issue. They therefore have become accustomed to different techniques to suit their specialties. Also the dark era cyclists has some “supplements” to aid their recovery.
I've studied & researched bicycling cadence & power for decades as fundamental to my quest to invent & design an automatic bicycle transmission that 'shifts' gears to accommodate the best combination. In the '90', I also started a bike riding club with other engineers; by then I'd already known about optimal cadence & power with some practical range. There's a great deal of research & scientific testing results available on this subject! Anyway, I noticed that one of our club riders was ascending steep hills (in our Santa Cruz Mountain rides) with a cadence around 30-40 rpm, so I warned him that this was so low that he'd blow-out his knees, which he *did* within months, requiring arthroscopic knee surgery on one knee, and again the other after again ignoring my warning!
What I concluded in my extensive research was that optimal cadence averages 88 rpm +/- 8 rpm, depending on the rider, and 250 +/-40 watts was sustainable for a typical fit rider. From this basic cadence range, the most effective sprints are achieved by raising cadence, wherein power develops proportional to rpm up to 130 rpm with practice, noting that high-power riding is only sustainable for elite athletes. Some elite sprinters can produce over 1600 Watts, but only for about 5 seconds!
For the sake of healthy knees, I'd recommend cadence to always exceed 60 rpm with a training target of 80-95 rpm, which seems high to many riders until they make it a heathy habit. My latest incarnation of an automatic bike transmission is almost ready for development/testing with crowdsource funding; the automatic feature is based on maintaining 250 Watts at 90 rpm for pedaling bikes, and 1kW at 80 rpm for pedelecs, the gear-ratio control is designed to keep cadence nearly constant for all grades up & down steep hills and nearly flat grades, and is tunable for rider preferences above 70 rpm. Since power is pedal-torque multiplied by pedal rpm, maintaining nearly constant cadence optimizes efficient power at all grades, both for the bike-ride *and* muscular kinetics!
Is it OK to have low cadence while standing and cycling? Less effort from the knee joint and more about shifting your weight around
Wow this was interesting to read! Thanks for your comment and good luck with your project
@SIMKINETICS
Great post.
This should be required knowledge before wracking up the miles, as it would prevent unnecessary knee joint injury & maximise cycling longevity, which unfortunately is not what most people consider when young, ego driven & full of testosterone.
@@whatreally9 this is a great question. I'm wondering the same thing!
Anything below 80rpm for me is leg destroying. I’m happy between 90-110rpm. I’ve always ridden with high cadence. Spinning circles is more efficient than chopping wood!
The Twig isn't what I expected but I like it. I'm also a natural grinder. Big gears just make me happy.
It's how real men ride..
@@JamesSmith-vz8yr Come on James, attitudes like that aren't helpful.
You do know that there are intermediate cadences don't you? Froomey was unusual because he needed a high cadence to keep up with the flyweights. Most ride closer to 60 rather than 40 and they use the 39 or 42. I now ride a compact but my excuse is that I am a 77 year old who can no longer climb 100,000 meters a year. Not to mention the extra 20 lbs of winter blubber.
@@gcn I bet Emily Bridges is a spinner! 🤣
Me toooooo!
If you train to spin or train to grind that is your choice but I have blown my knee out on a 115 mile very hilly ride when I was 40 years old( my good wheels had a 13-23 cassette with 42-52 chainrings) after 80 miles of grinding up the hills .my knee made a audible pop I fell over and was done riding for 2 months so my opinion is if your old SPIN !!! I'M 67 NOW AND WOULDN'T THINK OF GRINDING !!
Indeed Red, if you have the gears, use them!
u mean grinding is not good for knee?
@@tunguyenminh9755 yes, less force
I think that is great advice. I am 61 and do long rides off-road and do not have nearly the aches and pains when I use higher reps.
I'm 65 and I have to grind up steep hills, no choice.
It's similar to comparing a sprinter to a middle distance to an ultra distance runner. It all comes down to muscle fiber type: slow oxidative (SO), fast oxidative (FO) and fast glycolytic (FG). Our bodies are optimized for either spinning or grinding. I really enjoyed the comparison and the twig / stig pun.
The flaw in this video is that it assumes we all have a choice. On more than a few climbs the fastest I can spin my cranks IS a grind.
If i wanted to keep my heart rate down just for an endurance ride, it would be impossible to keep spinning on a hill even changing to low gears and keeping my heart rate down.
Haha 😄 said by every amateur cyclist ever :) I bought a different cassette 11-38 and i think it's 31 or 32 on the small chainring
Interesting video. I spent the winter training to maintain pedaling out of the saddle for much longer than I ever could before. I then tried a short hill which averages 11% and found by standing I didn't necessary go any faster but my heart rate was noticeably lower when standing especially using a slow and easy cadence. And I wasn't as tired. So for me it's less about cadence and more about standing and leveraging the added power you get standing. I don't race so just making it easier to climb was my only goal.
I use a cadence in the high 70's when climbing seated, mid 60's standing .I shift up if I stand on the same grade. I have been riding for over 50 years and my position on the bike and power output is VERY different than when I was in my 30's. My body weight is now 260# no longer 180# I run a triple front; average only 200 watts now at age 70.I like to turn about 90+ rpm on the flat.
Should have done a 3rd run at rider's discretion with the full range of gears available, would be interesting to see what the whole system (rider and bike) is capable of instead of artificially narrowing the result by cadence.
I second that
Agreed, this was a miss.
Yes, that would have been interesting but Conor wanted coffee and a cake after that 2nd run!! 🤣 We think showing the two extremes though will give you a good enough idea of where each of their peaks would be!
@@gcn as a fellow Clydesdale, I can sympathize with Connor! 😅
It was nice of the Twig to put himself at a disadvantage by keeping his mudguards on.
We couldn't believe it when he rocked up with those flappy things on, then goes to fly up that climb in a massive gear!!
@@gcn Bar tape was still too heavy it seems. What a legend.
@@gcn I like his mudguards! Mine aren't long enough and so fail in fully preventing the splatter after rainy days. Is there a video of him presenting his bike?
I'm coming from mountain biking, so it's a little different I suppose, but I typically start my climb in the highest gear I can with the most speed I can, then downshift as needed as I go up. I only run into issues when it gets steeper than I was ready for and end up shifting under load.
When I started riding road bike a few years ago, I always made the mistake that I really liked heavy gears, but as the hill got steeper, I had to shift down, but stayed at the big chain wheel and then eventually had to shift to the smaller one which absolutely killed my speed. Personally, nowadays I am not afraid of shifting into a lower gear with the small front chain wheel earlier and spinning my way into the hill which then helps me not to run out of gears when things get tougher.
The best cadence is the one you can sustain and comfortable with. Usually it is probably best to alternate
Thank you for making this video. Very informative and useful for every rider
I guess this is why all my bikes have more than 2 gears: so I can choose a *sensible* cadence 😜
Spot on!
Gonna guess the answer, as it's been for the last 5 other reviews like this: "Whatever is most comfortable for you".
Forcing yourself to ride "different" while putting out similar wattage is just going to make you more tired, either mentally and/or physically.
I mean its GCN so the answer would be buy some expensive shit our sponsors make us plaster all over the screen. How about a suuuuuuuperbike climbing bike CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON CANYON
For sure. Personally I'm happy going 90+ rpm most of the time. On the other hand I'd really struggle with anything under 80
No?
There's always been a "winner".
The conclusion's just for the general audience that watch GCN videos, which are pretty much the casuals of casuals.
However, for the people that even spends like $4000 for 3% of power, they also got a conclusion.
Hi Jusmar, that's right - whatever is most comfortable for you, as this video shows. Neither of the two extremes were right for either of them, but Conor is more of a spinner and Andrew a grinder!
@@gcn Since you guys repeat the spin vs grind video every year or less you should do it with 3 groups - low, high, individual preference and see how much better the third is
As a beginner-ish cyclist who has only recently stopped avoiding uphills, this video was super helpful!
Connor’s bike hurts my eyes but fills my heart! ❤️ Reminding us to ride whatever you want.
❤️🙌
Timely video, I've just been experimenting with this on Alpe du Zwift. I found that dropping my cadence from 90 average to 80 average I had 10W higher power at the same heart rate, and took 5 minutes off my best time. I always thought I had to avoid grinding in order to survive the Alpe, but this showed me that even after 45+ years of riding it's important to experiment as you may get a pleasant surprise.
Are you climbing it at 100% difficulty level?
Thanks for the info Jeffery. I have been riding high cadence 90-100 (both on Zwift and IRL) but am finding my HR higher than I want. I am just starting to consciously lower my cadence and will be interested to see the watts vs HR numbers.
@@keithm1493 unless you are an elite rider I highly doubt you can sustain 80-90rpm average at those gradients in alpe du zwift if you set the difficulty level to 100%
@@cyclingformortals2231 My higher cadence averages were not on Alpe. I’m more in the 75-80 range on Alpe. And when I ride it I don’t have my trainer at 100%. The cassette on my indoor road bike and my smart trainer is not a great climbing cassette (11-25) so I take advantage of the “virtual cassette” by lowering trainer difficulty. Watts are still watts.
@@keithm1493 “power is power” is scientifically false because your legs can’t supply unlimited force. 300W on 5% or shallower is so much easier than 300W on 10% or steeper. The latter requires more force because of the drop in cadence. The drop in cadence is because you do not have unlimited gears. But even if you do have unlimited leg power and gears, steeper gradients force you to apply force throughout the entire crank rotation. On shallower gradients you have the advantage of momentum so you are basically freewheeling on the crank dead spot positions (6 and 12 o’clock). It’s not the same. It’s basic physics.
I try to stick to 80-85rpm for climbs. I'm used to that from mountain biking though. amount of fast & slow twitch muscle will affect what cadence you do better with I guess.
The Twig - absolutely love it!! Well done GCN
Feather is an absolute beast! 455 watt average! I think in an earlier video it said he weighed 62 kg…that means he’s climbing at 7.33 w/k…amazing!
For 6 min 😅 World tour values there.. beast
And that was in a gear he wouldn't usually choose!! 😳
@@gcn right!? Really puts into perspective the gap that separates the elite from the average.
The world's top riders cannot get an FTP higher than 6.85watt/kg. FTP is an effort you maintain 20-60 minutes. His effort is much shorter.
@@philfortner1805 top riders can go much higher....feather just climb without prior 160 km of race.
Take pantani and put him in front of a climb without making 150 km of race and see his power
I find around 80 rpm a good sweet spot. It's also recommended to run at around that cadence as opposed to plodding. Higher cadence is definitely easier on the knees.
I naturally settle around 80-90 too
I ride drop bar three speeds (yes, that’s a thing; look up the history of the Raliegh Record Ace and the 1930s Raliegh/Sturmey-Archer team) so it’s grinding for me. NYC isn’t crazy hilly, but it’s got some where that low gear is useful.
I do long distance multi day bike tours, my motto is slowly and surely gets you there. I always select a cadence a bit easier than the road I'm on. I ride a heavier bike with carried weight, so efficient riding is key.
Twig was hilarious! I’ve often thought that this is the bicycle version of Top Gear, in all the best ways. I’m totally a grinder. Thanks for all the education and entertainment this channel provides.
Glad you enjoyed it Will!!
I used to bike 8 hours a day in San Francisco doing Doordash etc. Ur absolutely right on old bikes you have no other choice but to get stronger. Long run is totally worth it as ur acceleration on the flats improve like crazy.
I'm finding myself spinning more. However, when I'm riding for a long-time, I mix spinning with grinding to ease the soreness on some of my muscles.
I prefer switching it up depending on how I feel. I’d say that I am typically a spinner, as I was previously a runner so my cardiovascular system is definitely stronger than my legs, but I’ll do a bit of both. I probably should be doing more of the low cadence though. 😂
To be at maximum efficiency cadence should vary depending on power output. Going from around 65rpm at 100W or less to 72rpm at 200W, 80rpm at 450W and so on.
Depends on the situation. If I'm alone I'll prefer to grind. Trying to stay in a pack that's at my level or better I'll spin to prevent being gapped as I can react faster to changes.
I may not be the first comment on this video but I’ll be the first to agree that Connor’s new bike and custom colours are as tasteful as si’s mtb tights from way back when 😂 just joking it doesn’t actually look as bad as I thought it would!!
The 🦄💩 as Ollie called it!
I'll take breathing harder than potentially damaging my knees, thank you very much. Grinding for short climbs though, or if I have no choice like if I'm using my 6-speed foldie. I was happily surprised I can actually go up short hills with that thing when I tried it the first time. I don't think I'll run across problems unless there are more or long hills on my path. It helps that I was weightlifting (squats and deadlifts) again.
Andrew is really doing his best not to smile during serious look moment
good info video! i was curious about your HR. i am a speed skater. At times. i am able to slow my stride cadence to a slower more powerful , yet i surprisingly avg a high speed pace with a lower heart rate. i always felt this was interesting.
I wish this was out there when i started 20 yrs ago, would've saved me tendonitis trying to grind like all the roadies said I should back then. When i finally set up my road bike with less than 1:1 in the smallest ring, i set my personal record at 110 cadence. Body types are different.
I suspect the years of riding before this experiment determined the outcome. I would like to see the discussion include information on slow twitch versus fast twitch muscle fibers.
In GCN's, "How To Climb Like Movistar's Mikel Landa," he talks about how important low cadence torque exercises are. If Conner keeps up the low cadence exercises he will be even more of a beast on climbs.
When I started cycling from beginning to like 1 year of few rides and more on commute 50k 2x a week and 1 35k a week. I was a pure grinder false flat, flat, uphill then spring came I joined a long ride. Might be just a medium ride to others, only 100km I was purely grinding the whole ride. After 70k I can't pedal anymore, energy drained. Summer came I practiced spinning then I first attempt to climb did on the hard climb around town til I ran 120k without a problem anymore. My rig is alu bike 12kg 9speed 11-26 cassette but ain't a problem after I learned spinning. So to say, for me it's spinning. Also best counter to headwind 😁
If you add a bit of swimming into your trainning, your heart and lung fitness will improve a lot, then a fast cadence is less difficult.
Jan Ukkrich used to train for the TdF by riding up the featured mountains in the big chain ring.
Everyone with their numbers! I just stick it in the hardest gear to push - if it's too hard or start to burn move it down. The harder gear also just feels smoother and easier to control RPM (more relax). The problem with the other way around (Spinning) is it's harder to slow down your heart rate and breathing by switching from Spinning to a harder gear Vs stopping leg burn - dropping to an easier gear.
I'm in my 40s. I ride at around 95 to 105 rpm pretty much always.average around 18mph. Ride in very flat area. I have an exceptionally low heart rate. Around 40 bpm at rest, so that might be a reason I like high cadence.
I grind my gears and torque my cranks so hard going to work everyday that I snap the connector link on my chain once a month. Its great!
Beautiful colour of your bike
I’m 69. Don’t know if means anything. I’ve learned that grinding at very low cadence allows me to effectively engage my glutes predominantly over my quads which have far more power and a much higher LT.
I always climb steep climbs at a cadence of
2:13 As somebody who just installed similar mudguards on his bike, this is nice to see. 👏👏🥰🥰
Great video, very interesting. But you guys really needed to do a baseline climb, just at your natural cadence and power. To compare if you were faster or slower than normal and then each of the two extremes. And show average power, cadence, time and perceive effort. It would have been a more complete test. Keep up the amazing videos coming.
Spin to win! gotta dance like Lance is the way to go!
I spinned a lot, I spin on the flats, I spin when I train, and I used to spin on climbs but I grinded the entire time during a 6k ft climb in the middle of a century ride on a bike that weighed 42 lbs with load and only had flat pedals after doing 3 weeks of training with low cadence intervals mixed with high cadence intervals. I only weigh 120 lbs so my bike is a huge chunk of my body weight and to my surprise, I made PR on most of the climbing segments when I grinded at bigger gears at lower cadence. My legs never went sore to my surprise. They felt fresh the entire time. I now train at both high and low cadence. I got this useful free advice from a trainingpeaks article that lightweight riders like me can get faster on climbs if I mix low cadence/big gear intervals into my training.
interesting experiment, unexpected (to me) results
nice!
Just getting back into cycling after a 2+ year hiatus, and I know everyone is different but help me to understand. Why wouldn’t you start with the most resistance that you can push at a lower rpm, and once you get your leg strength built up, just up the RPM by 20% or so and get your cardiovascular system built up?
I use to be a grinder , switched to high cadence , and wow I feel I am more efficient legs do not pool up with acid , it’s about training your cardiovascular engine , slowly you’ll find that you can sustain that high pace spinning, look at the tour rider when the pace goes up almost all are spinning and not grinding
I prefer spinning. Used to race my friend all the time, he preferred grinding. I won every time, he was stronger than me and had a way better bike.
I think height plays a part.
I'm short and spinning is just naturally easier for me. A lot of people I've met say my natural cadence is high.
Plus my heart is on the small side so I can go past 200bpm, can't take advantage of that while grinding.
But if I'm going really long distance I'll do 80rpm to cruise and save energy.95rpm looks about the same cadence I normally ride.
Also I think I'm not strong enough to actually grind so spinning is my only option. According to Strava, my highest power output is only 261w, I normally can't even do 200 I think.
Thanks for sharing! 👍
is spinning when you have the bike in on the small chainring instead of the big chainring?
@@joed7185 no spinning is above a certain rpm, when you don't feel like you're pushing hard
In my case, the correlation between height and cadence is the other way around. I'm taller than anyone I ride with, but also ride at a significantly higher cadence. I lack the strength to push big gears for a longer time, but I'm perfectly fine riding up a mountain pass in the alps at 90 rpm for an hour. At shorter climbs like the one in the video, I tend to spin at 95-100 rpm.
@@taflo1981 maybe it's something to do with upper leg to lower leg ratios. Something like the stroke length in a car engine. Shorter stroke, better at higher rpm.
I live on the edge of LIncolnshire, UK, and have to ride a few miles to even find a hill. The nearest decent challenge is about 10 miles away. I can ride up it on my fixed gear (about 72") by standing on the pedals and grinding, but if I'm on my geared road bike, I find myself clicking right down the ratios very early in the climb and winching myself up. The time taken to climb the hill is roughly the same, and I feel about as out of breath whichever bike I'm on. In normal riding on the flat, I'm more of a spinner than grinder.
That custom Orbea paintjob is 🔥
Dylan johnson did a good video on why cyclists should do squats at the gym a couple of times a week to make you stronger on the bike on hill climbs especially in a head wind
Being a rider (mountain biker, ex roadie) and spinner, spin shows you quickly that the higher the cadence the more forward you sit to engage the muscles correctly, the heavier the load the more you sit back. The 2 riders Froome and Ullrich show this in their riding positions, even though there was many years behind them. When you stand, you are much more forward and engage more muscles, from hip flexors, more glutes and arms, back shoulders, common for grinding a dh bike up a trail when you dont have an uplift. Podacar and Vingegaard both seem to average 88rpm for much of their rides. Which seems to be a magic number. The sprinters are 100rpm on a lead out! Its great that there is so much power data online these days from tour stages.
75-80 for flats on rides over 40 miles, 80-85 flats under 40 miles, enter climbs at 100-105rpm and slowly work my to maintain 80-85 for the climb. I have huge meaty legs and had a naturally low cadence in the 50s. By raising my cadence I am able to cycle further for longer. Spinning works for me.
I always spin, just comes naturally, having gotten into cycling after a long hiatus I focused first on my strength in the legs which is where the grinding comes into play and then I wanted to work on conditioning which is where I span that bad boy up like a cyclone. Personally spinning is just more enjoyable and where I live conditioning is super important and the hills are steep and long so it's impossible to get up the climb grinding unless you go into the red half way up one
Recently switched from 38t to 36t on the mtb it was a nice switch now I have two gears < 1:1
Spinning is not a new "thing". I was taught to spin in the 70's and 80's and as a young club rider I was told everything else would follow. They were right, it did, strength and overall fitness. Now in my late 50's with pins holding one of my hips together, the speed has gone but I can still knock out over 180 rpm when I need to - great for the occasional attack on the Saturday Cafe ride! Not to say I don't do low cadence work, as there's physiological adaptions that are made training at different cadences the same as at different power outputs, different heart rates and so on. Mix it up.
I have a couple of nice modern bikes and some late seventies vintage Raleighs. On a vintage bike with 42 at the front and 25 at the back there is no choice for me but to grind. My modern BMC has 32 at the front and 32 at the back so I can spin if I choose. The BMC is four pounds lighter than my best Raleigh, but the seven minute average difference on my local 12 km climb at 8% is all down to cadence. At 60rpm my old legs will quit long before the cardiovascular system. My fastest times up climbs are at 90-95 rpm. Of course I am only doing a modest 220W up those climbs.
I usually do grinding and spinning on my practice. Spinning gives me good results but it exhausts me like crazy. Grinding is comfortable for me but it takes a lot more power compared to spinning. So just gotta find the right balance.
I am slightly more grinder because I am naturally slow, but I have an idea I use sometimes. The idea is to avoid some gearshifting. When it gets light the legs spins faster, and on top of the mini-hills I am out of the saddle and pushing hard and slower. This way I both improve cadence and grinding -power. I believe that excersing with different cadence is very good excersise, both building speed and muscels.
This would have been really useful if it started with a natural run by each guy...with varying cadence according to feeling and slope, and with a (m-bike) follower to show where cadence changes occurred....then comparison of high/low cadences would be really meaningful - thanks guys...fascinating!
Definitely grinding for me. My bike weight a ton that even 34-30 won't allow me to spin, just grind my way up turtle speed ahead.
I idled in First Gear in a small diesel pickup behind Shanna Armstrong on Col d'Izoard while she climbed into the night, slow and Big Ring until she topped 10%, World Championship with Rob Kish 07 LeTour Ultime, made me cry until I mastered front derailleur hacks&tips
I’m a grinder, but knee joint has been literally ground down to an osteoarthritis condition. I can now get my joints to crack under stress and sometimes wake up with a soreness around my knee. Probably not all from biking. I haven’t been kind to my body over the years, and am starting to pay the price.
I train for hours at low cadence (60 rpm) 200 Watts + in Zone 2. The strength developed lets me climb the biggest hills on the big chain ring.
01/06/2023: I can now do 4 Watts/kg in Zone 2.
Love the Top Gear homage
Grey job guys well done 👏
Can't miss a feather video 😎
I am naturally low cadence grinder and often wonder if I can do better to train myself with higher cadence. One thing this video doesn't take into account is recovery. Riding low cadence I suspect will take longer recovery time thus a grand tour rider will have to find the optimal cadence for optimal power and for optimal recovery while as one can go all out in a one day classic race.
It's a mix between crank length versus your inseam length, your body weight, and muscle fiber twitchslow or fast.
Cranks should be between 18%and 19% of your leg inseam length.
Thank god they got rid of Junior gears. I usually found that higher cadences led to some inefficient bounce causing overuse injuries in the nether regions and leading to disappointing performances. I like crushing my big gears, and it’s way easier to have an even power distribution throughout. But self selected cadence is always best.
To train for the summer, spend the winter on a 48 x 18 single speed old bike of about 11kg.
Better still, a 42 x 18 fixed.
Man tripping right now i just rewatched Yowamushi Pedal the other day and the finale for that show was a 1v1 climb to the finish with these 2 styles against each other, the main protagonist raising his cadence to match his opponent who shifts UP gears while climbing. What a trip despite the show being super wacky at times it does feature some realism, albeit being heavily exaggerated.
I have been upping my cadence over winter,gone from 70”s to late 80”s ,
Back in my day [mid-80s to mid-90s] I concentrated on both. Spin for the short, steep stuff - honkin' for the cols. 42x28 low gear. Spinning wasn't an option on the cols. . .
Omg Connor your saddle is so high I got altitude sickness just by looking at it :O
Nice👍🏻🔥
Low cad the power comes from your legs, high cad the power comes from your lungs. All on what you want to pick and what works for you. If you never tried high cad, you have to try it.
Hey GCN! Can i request putting a mtb frame on road bike to see if it is still faster than the same.
I'm always amused at these comparisons of grinding vs spinning when climbing. For some of us, and it's probably a fairly high percentage of the TOTAL cycling community, when the grade gets above 6-7% for very long, spinning is not a choice. Only weight weenies have a choice. When the grade hits 9-10%, I'm lucky to be able to turn the pedals over at 50 rpm.
What gearing do you have? I’ve got an endurance bike with 50-34 and 11-34 cassette. I’m super skinny and FTP estimated at 160 watts lol. With those gears I can spin >80rpm up almost double digit grades. If I try and grind I just stall with my chicken legs and the muscles burn way too fast
Thats about the only thing i like about being limited to a mtb, i have plenty of gears to just keep spinning (although i dont my my actual cadence). The drawback is once im above 35kph i run out of gears on that end (plus the obvious weight and aero issues) :D
saya selalu suka dengan yang namanya bersepeda jenis apapun...😊
I’ve tried it both ways. What I came to discover is simply doing what feels most comfortable is best. Although, there’s really no comfort to be had when climbing. And BTW, what’s up with the fenders?
Who makes the orange shoes?? They are epic!! Would match my bike perfect.
For most of the normal cyclists the answer is pretty easy (at last in a steeper climb)… Grinding is the only option because you do not have enough easy gears and/or enough good condition to spin fast 😬
Had followed the mantra of use higher cadence, but found myself limited on higher gradient climbs. Heart rate rises quickly and exhaustion follows. I've done some sessions on the indoor trainer with high and low cadence - heart rate at lower cadence is much lower and I can complete higher gradient climbs without exhaustion setting in. Other thing to note is that on steeper climbs, the speed you can maintain is lower which also means that the amount of airflow around your body is lower and so there is less cooling effect - having a lower cadence and heart rate reduces the onset/effect of additional thermal exhaustion.
low cadence for me is 80rpm , high 100rpm. I vary up and down to either lower HR or give legs a rest from lower cadence. My mean cadence is around 88-92rpm for optimum power output over an hour. Short bursts I will use low cadence to start with by using my 90+kg weight to drive the pedals. Sprints I will rev upto 120rpm for max power
I don't recall any mention of the balance of crank arm length in this. I have a custom built bike with a recommended shorter crank arm, based on my physiology. Fit of the bike and crank arm length must make a big difference in how your body will respond to different strategies. Bike design as well. We ain't all the same!
Personal preference is what it's all about. I ride 46x16 single speed in a city shaped like a steep bowl, and I've the most fun grinding.