Hi Kevin, I followed all your instructions and now have a fully functioning heater. Many many thanks for your patience, assistance and fantastic easy to understand videos. Best regards Stuart🎉🎉😊
@@bvqbvq I cleaned the spinning disc on the sensor and carefully followed the instruction in respect of the spacers. When I tested it the gas solenoid operated but I couldn’t hear the tell tale clicking sound but I forged on and connected the gas. It worked first time. I was a bit worried about not being able to hear the igniter but is fired immediately and so I never did hear it. The final stage was to re seal it, then checked it again and all was well. The final part of the story is that I sold the horsebox which was the home of the heater. The new owner said that he didn’t want it because he already had a Chinese diesel heater. Win win for me. Again many thanks Best regards Stuart
@@TheMorgan47 I found that the spinning disc sensor didn't last long before it needed cleaning again. In the end I fitted the replacement pressure sensor that Propex sell. It wasn't cheap (about £75) but it did fix the problem once and for all.
@@bvqbvq I did notice that you replaced it. Hopefully that will be the responsibility of the new owner, although I will make them fully aware before they buy. If I get any takers that is.
Kevin Thank you for your comprehensive answer. I’m afraid a lot of the technical detail I don’t understand but I have a friend to whom it will cause him to salivate. I will use the information to troubleshoot my system. Thanks again for your assistance. Best regards Stuart
Hi Kevin Thanks for your prompt reply. It was only when I saw it I realised the thread is 7 years old. I have watched your video re the sparking problem but there are a couple of issues for me. My model is much older that yours though rarely used looking at the condition; the spark generator comes directly from the pcb which I have just replaced with a new one. The upshot is there is no small pcb in that system. I will check the electrode before I go any further and if I could prevail on your expertise a little further will the gas solenoid operate if the gas is not connected or that may be indicative that the air mass sensor is still not working. I wondered if there is a way to check that out by bypassing the air mass sensor. Unfortunately i've spent too much money on it already but unless I get it going it is junk. Hope you can help. Regards Stuart
Ah, I had one of the very old models with a red painted case. I spoke to Propex about getting it going and they told me not to bother and they did me a 'special price' on a new one. I don't know how your differs to the one that I currently have but I suspect the principle of operation is similar. In answer to your questions: 1. The gas valve should operate without any gas present, as far as I am aware there is no gas pressure sensor. 2. The air flow sensor cannot easily be bypassed as it generates a squarewave signal to the control processor. You can see if you are getting a signal by using a regular multimeter set to VAC. The sensor has 3 wires: ground (0V), supply (5V) & signal (0V-5V-0V-5V....etc). You can do a resistance check to a chassis ground point or the -ve supply wire to determine the ground and then the supply should measure 5V WRT ground. The signal wire may also measure 5V depending upon the position of the sensor. If you spin the sensor then one of the remaining wires should alternate between 0V & 5V. If it is spinning fast enough it will generate an AC voltage that your meter can measure. 3. You could bypass the flow sensor if you have a signal generator ;-) I would imagine that the sequence of operation would be: 1. Energise the fan. 2. Wait for a time to purge any gas/exhaust. 3. Check that the output from the air flow sensor if sufficient. If not stop and flash error 5 and stop. 4. Open the gas valve. 5. Wait for gas to enter the combustion chamber. 6. Energise the spark ignition module. 7. Check the output from the flame detection sensor. If none, stop and flash error 1 or 2. The manual that I have lists the following errors: 1. Failed to ignite. 2. Flame sensor. 3. Low voltage. 4. N/A 5. Combustion air flow. 6. Gas solenoid. 7. N/A 8. High voltage. 9. Heat exchange temerature high. Yours may have completely different error codes. When mine starts the fan runs for about 30s before you hear the clunk of the gas valve followed by the ticking of the spark which is follower by the roar of the flame. Does any of that help?
Hi Kevin, looks like you know a bit about these problematic heaters. I’ll describe the issue with mine and hopefully you have some answers. So I have a hs2000 and it’s not staying lit. When I switch it on it blows cold for a bit then you can hear the solenoid click followed by the sound of the burner/flame rumble. The flame is on for about 8 seconds then the solenoid clicks and stops the flame, it then blows cold for 18 seconds then clicks again starting the flame which burns for another 8 seconds. It continually does this cycle till I turn the unit off. No fault codes appear. Have u any idea what’s up? I have cleaned the airflow sensor, combustion chamber and flame sensor. Cheers
@Jackson Hook firstly 24V AC sounds quite high for the airflow sensor. If it is the same sensor as in mine then the output is a 5V squarewave so that should give you about 2.5V AC. WIth regard to the primary fault, the gas being switched off and then back on, that is curious. I am assuming that there are no fault codes flashing up on the LED on the control panel. Here are my thoughts: 1. If there was a flame failure after ignition then I suspect that it would give you an error. 2. If the airflow was too low or insufficient output from the sensor that would give you an error. 3. If the combustion chamber overheated then there would be an overheat error. However, there is a thermal cut-out mounted on the combustion chamber, I don’t know whether that is reported as a fault. If that is tripping then I imagine that cuts off the gas to reduce the temperature. To test that you would have to measure the voltage (DC) across it and it should be close to 0V. If it trips then this voltage will increase. The only other thought that comes to mind is that the controller stops calling for heat and that turns off the gas valve but I wouldn’t have thought that it would try to relight in 8 seconds. It might be possible that it lights the gas and doesn’t see that it has lit so it switches off the gas, purges the chamber and then has another go. I don’t know why this wouldn’t show an error after a number of attempts. You could check that the flame failure electrode is positioned so that it is in the flame, that the wire is in good shape with good connections on the electrode and the connector. You could make a resistive measurement to make sure that there isn’t a short circuit to the chassis. The only other thought would be to look at the solder joints on the back of the PCB with a magnifier whilst wiggling the components on the top side to see if you can spot any cracked solder joints. Not sure what else to suggest.
@@bvqbvq Thanks for the prompt reply, yes there are no fault codes that come up unfortunately. It’s almost like it doesn’t know there’s a flame so try’s again. But normally this would give a fault code after a second attempt. It’s not over heating as I checked the failsafe switch, for continuity. I also cleaned and inspect all components and pcb board for defects in the circuitry, it checked out from what u can see with a magnifying glass. I’ve also been in contact with many technicians and also the manufacturer in the UK. It would be helpful I think to know the programming of the unit, down to the voltages, times, waves etc that the controller reads but no idea how to find that info. I’ll have another look at the ac voltage. Thanks again for your help!
Kevin, great vid and helped me no end. Can you tell me what you repealed the unit with I.e. the type of silicone? When it’s working (and I know that you had to replace it) without the gas connected should I still get two flashes on the thermostat. Thanks, y our videos are perfect for idiots like me.
You can just seal it with some standard silicone, it doesn't get that hot around the outer casing. Make sure that it is fully functional before sealing it back up! If you are getting error code 2 (2 flashes) then that is an ignition failure, see my other video because I also had the same fault (th-cam.com/video/aERfIJzZY-4/w-d-xo.html). I would check your wiring and connections and the state of the ignition electrode before you dig into the ignition module to search for bad solder joints. Unfortunately the quality of these Propex units is not great.
Hi Kevin I followed your video relating to the fan. I’ve got the fan spinning and it opens the gas valve as it should. However, I don’t hear any tick from the igniter (I’m currently troubleshooting without gas being connected)Now mine is a much older version than yours with the spark generator on the main pcb (new from Propex) thus my previous comment about having already spent too much money on it to commit it to my unsuccessful project’s drawer. I have no idea how any flame failure is notified due to far fewer wires on mine compared with yours. It’s noted that the lead from the spark generator to the ceramic sparker, like yours is extremely thin - that’s merely an observation, I expected it to be much thicker to carry a high voltage. Would you be kind enough to advise me how you would troubleshoot this issue please? I may not fully understand it all but I have a friend who deals with electronics and he will understand. The most worrying feature for me is the lack of the tell tale ticking sound but perhaps if the actual spark unit has collapsed it might be a straight short. This is the rambling of a no knowledge practitioner. Thank you in anticipation for your continued assistance. Best regards Stuart
If I was fault finding the ignitor, I would have to convince myself that there was no gas pressure sensor. You could always just attach a pipe to the gas inlet and pressurise it. You only need a low pressure to simulate the gas pressure, you could probably just blow into the pipe. If you then hear the ignitor ticking then you know that there is a pressure sensor. The HT lead to the spark electrode only needs to be thin because the current is very low. So long as it has a relatively thick layer of insulation then it is good for high voltage. I would check the spark electrode gap, if it is too big you won't get a spark and won't hear the ticking. If your electronics friend can see if the supply to the ignition module gets switched on after the fan has been running for a while that would be really useful. In fact, he should be able to manually switch a supply (12V) to the ignition section of the cicrcuit and see if you get any sparking. The flame failure device normally just takes the form of a single electrode whose tip is in the flame. There is then a single wire back to the PCB. Let me know what you find.
@@bvqbvq Thanks Kevin, I’ll be applying your suggestions over the next couple of days. Is it necessary to remove the igniter to regap it? Regards Stuart
@@TheMorgan47 I've never had to regap the spark gap but it would be worth checking. I don't know how it is held in place but I suspect that there is a screw to release it. I don't know what the gap should be. Is any of this any use? vandogtraveller.com/propex-compact-1600-campervan-heater-not-igniting-fix/ escaperoutetales.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/propex-heater-problem/
Is this fix doable without removing the heater from the van? My unit has just started to give me the 5 flashes and I'm guessing it's going to be the same issue.
I had to remove it from the van to get the cover off the back part since it is fitted with silicone sealant. Although I initially cleaned the sensor it did not last I ended up buying the replacement pressure sensor from Propex and that appears to have fixed it properly. This is the part that you are likely to need: www.propexleisure.co.uk/shop/air-flow-sensing-upgrade-kit/ You will need the 1800 variant for the Heatsource 1600 unit. Someone has done a video showing the replacement: th-cam.com/video/cYN7LkTVod0/w-d-xo.html
Hi Kevin, I followed all your instructions and now have a fully functioning heater. Many many thanks for your patience, assistance and fantastic easy to understand videos.
Best regards
Stuart🎉🎉😊
That's great news. What was the root cause of the problem? What did you have to do to fix it?
@@bvqbvq I cleaned the spinning disc on the sensor and carefully followed the instruction in respect of the spacers. When I tested it the gas solenoid operated but I couldn’t hear the tell tale clicking sound but I forged on and connected the gas. It worked first time. I was a bit worried about not being able to hear the igniter but is fired immediately and so I never did hear it. The final stage was to re seal it, then checked it again and all was well.
The final part of the story is that I sold the horsebox which was the home of the heater. The new owner said that he didn’t want it because he already had a Chinese diesel heater.
Win win for me.
Again many thanks
Best regards
Stuart
@@TheMorgan47 I found that the spinning disc sensor didn't last long before it needed cleaning again. In the end I fitted the replacement pressure sensor that Propex sell. It wasn't cheap (about £75) but it did fix the problem once and for all.
@@bvqbvq I did notice that you replaced it. Hopefully that will be the responsibility of the new owner, although I will make them fully aware before they buy. If I get any takers that is.
Kevin
Thank you for your comprehensive answer. I’m afraid a lot of the technical detail I don’t understand but I have a friend to whom it will cause him to salivate. I will use the information to troubleshoot my system. Thanks again for your assistance.
Best regards
Stuart
When they are working they are nice little heaters. It should be possible to get it going. Good luck and let me know how you get on.
Thanks For your continues help, I really appreciate it and I’ll let you know how I get on.
Regards
Stuart
Hi Kevin
Thanks for your prompt reply. It was only when I saw it I realised the thread is 7 years old.
I have watched your video re the sparking problem but there are a couple of issues for me.
My model is much older that yours though rarely used looking at the condition; the spark generator comes directly from the pcb which I have just replaced with a new one. The upshot is there is no small pcb in that system.
I will check the electrode before I go any further and if I could prevail on your expertise a little further will the gas solenoid operate if the gas is not connected or that may be indicative that the air mass sensor is still not working.
I wondered if there is a way to check that out by bypassing the air mass sensor.
Unfortunately i've spent too much money on it already but unless I get it going it is junk.
Hope you can help.
Regards
Stuart
Ah, I had one of the very old models with a red painted case. I spoke to Propex about getting it going and they told me not to bother and they did me a 'special price' on a new one. I don't know how your differs to the one that I currently have but I suspect the principle of operation is similar.
In answer to your questions:
1. The gas valve should operate without any gas present, as far as I am aware there is no gas pressure sensor.
2. The air flow sensor cannot easily be bypassed as it generates a squarewave signal to the control processor. You can see if you are getting a signal by using a regular multimeter set to VAC. The sensor has 3 wires: ground (0V), supply (5V) & signal (0V-5V-0V-5V....etc). You can do a resistance check to a chassis ground point or the -ve supply wire to determine the ground and then the supply should measure 5V WRT ground. The signal wire may also measure 5V depending upon the position of the sensor. If you spin the sensor then one of the remaining wires should alternate between 0V & 5V. If it is spinning fast enough it will generate an AC voltage that your meter can measure.
3. You could bypass the flow sensor if you have a signal generator ;-)
I would imagine that the sequence of operation would be:
1. Energise the fan.
2. Wait for a time to purge any gas/exhaust.
3. Check that the output from the air flow sensor if sufficient. If not stop and flash error 5 and stop.
4. Open the gas valve.
5. Wait for gas to enter the combustion chamber.
6. Energise the spark ignition module.
7. Check the output from the flame detection sensor. If none, stop and flash error 1 or 2.
The manual that I have lists the following errors:
1. Failed to ignite.
2. Flame sensor.
3. Low voltage.
4. N/A
5. Combustion air flow.
6. Gas solenoid.
7. N/A
8. High voltage.
9. Heat exchange temerature high.
Yours may have completely different error codes. When mine starts the fan runs for about 30s before you hear the clunk of the gas valve followed by the ticking of the spark which is follower by the roar of the flame.
Does any of that help?
Hi Kevin, looks like you know a bit about these problematic heaters. I’ll describe the issue with mine and hopefully you have some answers. So I have a hs2000 and it’s not staying lit. When I switch it on it blows cold for a bit then you can hear the solenoid click followed by the sound of the burner/flame rumble. The flame is on for about 8 seconds then the solenoid clicks and stops the flame, it then blows cold for 18 seconds then clicks again starting the flame which burns for another 8 seconds. It continually does this cycle till I turn the unit off. No fault codes appear. Have u any idea what’s up?
I have cleaned the airflow sensor, combustion chamber and flame sensor.
Cheers
I’m getting a around 24v ac reading from the airflow sensor, is that normal? Green to orange wire
@Jackson Hook firstly 24V AC sounds quite high for the airflow sensor. If it is the same sensor as in mine then the output is a 5V squarewave so that should give you about 2.5V AC.
WIth regard to the primary fault, the gas being switched off and then back on, that is curious. I am assuming that there are no fault codes flashing up on the LED on the control panel. Here are my thoughts:
1. If there was a flame failure after ignition then I suspect that it would give you an error.
2. If the airflow was too low or insufficient output from the sensor that would give you an error.
3. If the combustion chamber overheated then there would be an overheat error.
However, there is a thermal cut-out mounted on the combustion chamber, I don’t know whether that is reported as a fault. If that is tripping then I imagine that cuts off the gas to reduce the temperature. To test that you would have to measure the voltage (DC) across it and it should be close to 0V. If it trips then this voltage will increase.
The only other thought that comes to mind is that the controller stops calling for heat and that turns off the gas valve but I wouldn’t have thought that it would try to relight in 8 seconds.
It might be possible that it lights the gas and doesn’t see that it has lit so it switches off the gas, purges the chamber and then has another go. I don’t know why this wouldn’t show an error after a number of attempts. You could check that the flame failure electrode is positioned so that it is in the flame, that the wire is in good shape with good connections on the electrode and the connector.
You could make a resistive measurement to make sure that there isn’t a short circuit to the chassis. The only other thought would be to look at the solder joints on the back of the PCB with a magnifier whilst wiggling the components on the top side to see if you can spot any cracked solder joints.
Not sure what else to suggest.
@@bvqbvq Thanks for the prompt reply, yes there are no fault codes that come up unfortunately. It’s almost like it doesn’t know there’s a flame so try’s again. But normally this would give a fault code after a second attempt. It’s not over heating as I checked the failsafe switch, for continuity. I also cleaned and inspect all components and pcb board for defects in the circuitry, it checked out from what u can see with a magnifying glass. I’ve also been in contact with many technicians and also the manufacturer in the UK. It would be helpful I think to know the programming of the unit, down to the voltages, times, waves etc that the controller reads but no idea how to find that info. I’ll have another look at the ac voltage. Thanks again for your help!
Kevin, great vid and helped me no end.
Can you tell me what you repealed the unit with I.e. the type of silicone?
When it’s working (and I know that you had to replace it) without the gas connected should I still get two flashes on the thermostat. Thanks, y our videos are perfect for idiots like me.
You can just seal it with some standard silicone, it doesn't get that hot around the outer casing. Make sure that it is fully functional before sealing it back up!
If you are getting error code 2 (2 flashes) then that is an ignition failure, see my other video because I also had the same fault (th-cam.com/video/aERfIJzZY-4/w-d-xo.html).
I would check your wiring and connections and the state of the ignition electrode before you dig into the ignition module to search for bad solder joints. Unfortunately the quality of these Propex units is not great.
Hi Kevin
I followed your video relating to the fan. I’ve got the fan spinning and it opens the gas valve as it should.
However, I don’t hear any tick from the igniter (I’m currently troubleshooting without gas being connected)Now mine is a much older version than yours with the spark generator on the main pcb (new from Propex) thus my previous comment about having already spent too much money on it to commit it to my unsuccessful project’s drawer.
I have no idea how any flame failure is notified due to far fewer wires on mine compared with yours.
It’s noted that the lead from the spark generator to the ceramic sparker, like yours is extremely thin - that’s merely an observation, I expected it to be much thicker to carry a high voltage.
Would you be kind enough to advise me how you would troubleshoot this issue please?
I may not fully understand it all but I have a friend who deals with electronics and he will understand.
The most worrying feature for me is the lack of the tell tale ticking sound but perhaps if the actual spark unit has collapsed it might be a straight short. This is the rambling of a no knowledge practitioner.
Thank you in anticipation for your continued assistance.
Best regards
Stuart
If I was fault finding the ignitor, I would have to convince myself that there was no gas pressure sensor. You could always just attach a pipe to the gas inlet and pressurise it. You only need a low pressure to simulate the gas pressure, you could probably just blow into the pipe. If you then hear the ignitor ticking then you know that there is a pressure sensor.
The HT lead to the spark electrode only needs to be thin because the current is very low. So long as it has a relatively thick layer of insulation then it is good for high voltage.
I would check the spark electrode gap, if it is too big you won't get a spark and won't hear the ticking.
If your electronics friend can see if the supply to the ignition module gets switched on after the fan has been running for a while that would be really useful. In fact, he should be able to manually switch a supply (12V) to the ignition section of the cicrcuit and see if you get any sparking.
The flame failure device normally just takes the form of a single electrode whose tip is in the flame. There is then a single wire back to the PCB.
Let me know what you find.
@@bvqbvq Thanks Kevin, I’ll be applying your suggestions over the next couple of days.
Is it necessary to remove the igniter to regap it?
Regards
Stuart
@@TheMorgan47 I've never had to regap the spark gap but it would be worth checking. I don't know how it is held in place but I suspect that there is a screw to release it. I don't know what the gap should be.
Is any of this any use?
vandogtraveller.com/propex-compact-1600-campervan-heater-not-igniting-fix/
escaperoutetales.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/propex-heater-problem/
Is this fix doable without removing the heater from the van? My unit has just started to give me the 5 flashes and I'm guessing it's going to be the same issue.
I had to remove it from the van to get the cover off the back part since it is fitted with silicone sealant. Although I initially cleaned the sensor it did not last I ended up buying the replacement pressure sensor from Propex and that appears to have fixed it properly. This is the part that you are likely to need:
www.propexleisure.co.uk/shop/air-flow-sensing-upgrade-kit/
You will need the 1800 variant for the Heatsource 1600 unit. Someone has done a video showing the replacement:
th-cam.com/video/cYN7LkTVod0/w-d-xo.html
Should have said resealed